![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 15 to 39 of 64. Go back in thread:
Posted by JadeKelly on January 3, 2009, at 22:24:06
In reply to What was or is your PARNATE experience?, posted by JadeKelly on January 2, 2009, at 18:52:13
jms600,
Hope I didn't offend you, I know you were trying to help me! I'm actually on the course I want to be on, its just that I feel I'm asking so many random questions from people who have been there. I figure these "people in the know" would appreciate answering upcoming questions once (if they feel so inclined) rather than 10X.
We do have many people on Parnate right now. I am excited I should be getting close, and I already had 10 days of full remission, NOT THE STIM HIGH. Just myself back. Its gone but I know it will return, for good.
Frankly, I don't want to pester people with my questions any more than I have to. But my knowledge is still very limited, and I still trust experience over most other things.
Btw-Thanks for answering my post, sorry for the confusion, how are you doing? Answer me back here or I will come and find you!!!!
~Jade
Posted by bulldog2 on January 4, 2009, at 8:07:25
In reply to Re: What was or is your PARNATE experience? » bulldog2, posted by JadeKelly on January 3, 2009, at 21:01:25
> > > > > "You might try neurontin or lyrica in place of klonopin. In my experience neurontin is more pro-social than klonopin and has ad and anti-anxiety effects for me."
> > > >
> > > > But I'd still have to w/d from Klonopin, right? I take it for nerve pain and not sure I even need it anymore. No psych dependence at all. I like the idea of neurontin as it treats nerve pain if it turns out I did need something. It helps with sleep? Or do you have to take during day to get all benefits?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > ~Jade
> > > >
> > > >
> > > I take it during the day high dose 3600 and it stimulates me...Sometimes makes me drowsy
>
> Well no wonder your drowsy, thats twice the high dose! Jeez!
>
>
> and I take coffee to wake me up...I usually take 2 milligrams klonopin on days I don't take neurontin...On days I take neurotin I take .5 or 1 milligram and sometimes none at all(klonopin)...You can wean off klonopin while taking neurontin.....
> > > You can start at a lower dose like 600 or even 300 three times a day for an ad and anti anixety dose.
>
> Will it take care of physical w/d's from Klonopin if I just cold turkey switch?
>
>
> > > I don't take it everyday as people say you will build a tolerance to it...ive taken it as much as 6 days in a row and it worked...usually only three times a week tops....Just a nice adjunct like having a few drinks but nicer and cleaner and a little stim feeling.
>
> I remember now, you were looking for something to even out 7 days that you wouldn't get rapid tolerance to. Isnt it just an anti-siezure med? What about the Lyrica (know nothing about that one) the other days? Pretty sure your Doc doesn't know about neurontin dose??!! And would I get that result at regular dose? Won't interfere with my Parnate response?
>
> Alright then, get out your prescription pad.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > The stim effect is good in a way...It makes you feel good until the real ad effect kicks in.
> > I was thinking of trying it...But i'm 60
> with treated hypertension...So I don't know if this is to dangerous for me.
>
> Could you explain the above so I know which meds you are referring to? Also, I mentioned something I read, old, that said people above 60, or 65, don't remember, shouldn't use MAOI's. Dumb. People are so much healthier now, whatever that was I wish I hadn't mentioned it. It seems to have circulated.
>
>
> > I think nardil might be safer in terms of hypertension...It has a rep for causing weight gain...I like the parnate but would have to go low dose like 30 mg and take separate doses...
>
> If you already have a hypertension that you're being treated for, I'd think carefully before trying a MAOI. Talk to a lot of people about it first. Nardil is a weight gainer, and Parnate very stimulating, niether great candidates for someone with hypertention. If it was me, I'd find something else.
>
> But what the hell do I know?! ha!
>
> ~Jade
>
> PS- let me know when my scripts are ready, thnx
>
>Actually got neurontin from my pain doctor for nerve pain and he knows my dose..Lyrica is stronger med but has more sides including weight gain for many...cold turkey? Maybe a quicker taper than normal...three to two and hold for a week...2 to 1.5 for a week...1 for a week.. .5 for a week...though when I started neurontin I would just not take my klonopin some days and was okay..but most days i only take 1-2 mg.
Posted by Vincent_QC on January 4, 2009, at 8:59:00
In reply to Re: What was or is your PARNATE experience? » JadeKelly, posted by JadeKelly on January 3, 2009, at 22:24:06
Hi Jade,
My experience is also limited, only one month soon on Parnate.For what I read this morning on others post, especially the post of shasling, I can see that's different for everyone. We don't experience the same side-effects and the same good effects also.
My experience at 10mg was ok, but my insomnia was worse in the begining. I ask for the Seroquel-XR to sleep at the time...and I had my car accident with it... At the begining of my Parnate adventure, I feel the stimulant effect of the Parnate but nothing more, only 1 or 2 hours after my dose intake.
I increase my dose more fast than what my psychiatrist wanted, a lot more in fact, the last time I see him, he prescribe to me only 20mg/day for 1 1/2 month... I jump into the 20mg in less than 1 week. Sometimes, take all the 20mg in the same intake, sometimes one at 8AM and the other at noon.
On 20mg, I notify a more stimulant effect but no real side-effects at all, no hypertension or no orthostatic hypotension. But I was also feeling that it was not enought to work on me. No improve on all the problems I have, social phobia, panic disorder with agoraphobia, depression, general anxiety...I stay maybe 1 week at 20 and it was just ok, mean that I feel nothing really, just more tired in the afternoon and at night also. But not the usual tiredness...it's more like I just run a marathon, physical fatigue...more than mental fatigue.
I increase at 30mg, but in theory i'm not suppose to do it...
Suddenly, I don't know why but at 30mg I begin to feel a lot of orthostatic hypotension effect, follow by hypertension periods...I also notice a really small effect on my social phobia and on my insomnia at night but nothing else. I begin also to feel more and more tired in the afternoon and in the evening, the usual physical fatigue. I can say that since i'm at 30mg and more, I have less energy in the evening, I just want to sit and do nothing. I also notice a strange effect, like I don't care about the others now, and an augmentation of my panic disorder problem since my heart start to beat more fast and hard, so I have a fixation on my blood pressure and if I feel a strange sensation inside my head or inside my chest I begin to freak out...
Even with all these side effects, I increase at 40mg, the double dose i'm suppose to take now...
At 40mg, I remember the first day was really hard. I post a topic here about it... I had a terrible night experience of low blood pressure, I was not able to move or open the light or tolerate it at all, photophobia, very low blood pressure, orthostatic hypertension as well...I had this kind of high level of orthostatic hypotension for 3 days at least but thanks god, orthostatic fade away now. At the same time, I develoop a more important hypertension problem. Sometimes having my blood pressure more high than 170/80-90, reach one time the 210 limit...Take Nefipidine pill one time...
So for now, no big improve at 40mg after 1 week.
I sleep more well at night,I can return in my bed after my 20mg dose in the morning and my 2-3 cups of coffee and sleep again, I do a little bit less of social phobia and agoraphobia but that's maybe the fact that i'm too much oriented on my heart and the hypertension side-effects I experience since 1 week.
I'm not the kind of guy to go and talk to everyone anyway so I don't notice the improve a lot, but I tend to feel a more "I don't care about the others" attidude, that I didn't had before I was on 40mg of Parnate. Before, I had to take 2 hours to prepare myself to go outside the house, if I had one pimple in the face it was the end of the world, now I don't care...I take a fast shower, put the first clothes I see and that's it...
My depression level is the same, I don't feel more happy or less happy, I don't feel more sad or less sad, I don't feel like I have fun in life again or that I have more interest in what I liked before. I don't feel also that I have the necessary energy to be 100% fonctionnal, in fact, if I stay like this, I will not be able to return to the university and find a work like I want to do soon...
I tend to feel just more tired in general, except in the morning, and less tolerant to the fatigue...
I will have to talk alot to my family doctor this week about the "viability" to continue my treatment on the Parnate or jump into something new again. (Manerix, cymbalta, even if i'm not really interrested in them, if I don't try these drugs I will never know...i'm still not sure about the cymbalta cause it's an extend release and I can't take XR pills...) or maybe try one of the TCA I never try before (Nortriptyline) was the second option that my psychiatrist wanted to prescribe to me...
I wonder if no big improve in 1 month is normal for the others people who take or experienced the Parnate?
I don't feel the stimulating effect now or the kind of nice energy feeling I had at 10mg or 20mg in the morning. I have to drink my regular 2-3 cups of coffee to be fully awake but sadly after noon, my energy return to a 0 level and I feel tired all the rest of the day. In the evening, I have to kick my *ss a lot to move it and do something. I feel just like all my physical energy is drained. On others AD's like the SSRI's or SRNI's, I had extreme fatigue, but not the same kind, I was more mentally tired...
I also notice a difference on my Valium intake, I take less...10-15mg, before I was at 20mg...Maybe for another person, 5mg less of Valium by day is not a big improve, but for me it's a "feat".
For now what I say is that the side-effects are too much high for the improve I got.
Sometimes, I wonder if I really need a AD to help me with my social phobia, panic disorder with agoraphobia, depression and general anxiety. I wonder if just a CTB therapy will not help? Since I begin one CTB therapy before christmas vacation, I will see...I continue it tomorrow, it's my next appointment with my psychologist.
For bulldog2, I read your comments about Gabapentin (Neurotin) and Lyrica... I take both of them, I had great hope about Gabapentin in fact but it never work. I was planning in the begining of 2007 to withdrawh of the high dose of Rivotril I taked at the time each day and my doctor give me these in hope I will be able to reduce my dayli intake of Rivotril. I Remember that it was a pain in the *ss to take all those pills...I had also a high dose of 3600mg/day...I stop it after 2 months because I had a lot of "needles and pins" feeling all over my body. I was also a lot more nervous on it.
Lyrica was the same experience, but it's less hard to take because it's a small pill and it's one by day...I remember it for it's drowsiness..I was unable to do anything on it. I don't use it for a long time cause it fail to produce the effect it was suppose to do...
So that's it...My Parnate experience is somewhat recent so I can't see if it's worth the trail or not. Since I don't improve a lot and I have more side-effects than good efects for now, I will keep posting about it.
I also have to say that my Nardil experience back in 2007 was not more sucessfull. IT was just after my Gabapentin experience. 90mg/day of Nardil for 3 months, with an extreme low blood pressure and orthostatic hypotension that never fade away, even after 3 months, it was too much for me. All I succed to do on it was to reduce my Rivotril intake from 8mg dayli to 4mg...I was like a zombie on it, always tired, I had to drink coffee all the times, take "wake up" pills also to have more energy but at the same time my insomnia problem was getting worse...After 3 months I give up...I was a lot deseasperate because I had too much hope on it, with all what I read about it and about the fact it was the most effective single drug to use for social phobia and depression... I lost a lot of hope after this experience.
So Nardil over Parnate differences, more sedation on the Nardil, more orthostatic hypotension and hypotension, no improve on the social phobia or others problems I have...Parnate = more hypertension, more side-effects at each increasement of the dose. Strong orthostatic hypotension crisis that fade away fast after a dose increasement. A persistent physical fatigue in the afternoon and evening but help somewhat with social phobia and agoraphobia, make me less nervous about what the others person will think about me, a more "I don't care" attitude...sometimes good and sometimes bad...
So that's it...more news soon ;-) This week, doctor appointment and others news to come...
Posted by jms600 on January 4, 2009, at 13:53:20
In reply to Re: What was or is your PARNATE experience? » JadeKelly, posted by JadeKelly on January 3, 2009, at 22:24:06
Hi Jade
That's ok! Please don't be worried - I was not offended!
Yep - still having the severe panic, GAD, social anxiety etc... My p/doc is considering stopping the amitriptyline and replacing it with Effexor (while still keeping me on 600mg lithium and 40mg buspirone). I'm hoping the Effexor will do the trick as it's actually indicated for anxiety related problems, whereas amitriptyline is indicated only for depression.
I was prescribed Effexor about 5 years ago and didn't think that much of it, however, I wasn't suffering the anxiety issues that I've got now.
Talking of MAO inhibiters, I would like to try Nardil, everyone seems to hold the drug in high regard. However, I'm almost certain that my psychiatrist won't prescribe + I'm a bit concerned about the dietary restrictions.
As someone who is taking Parnate, are the dietary restrictions really that bad, e.g. do you have to avoid cheese or alcohol..?
Thanks!
jms> jms600,
>
> Hope I didn't offend you, I know you were trying to help me! I'm actually on the course I want to be on, its just that I feel I'm asking so many random questions from people who have been there. I figure these "people in the know" would appreciate answering upcoming questions once (if they feel so inclined) rather than 10X.
>
> We do have many people on Parnate right now. I am excited I should be getting close, and I already had 10 days of full remission, NOT THE STIM HIGH. Just myself back. Its gone but I know it will return, for good.
>
> Frankly, I don't want to pester people with my questions any more than I have to. But my knowledge is still very limited, and I still trust experience over most other things.
>
> Btw-Thanks for answering my post, sorry for the confusion, how are you doing? Answer me back here or I will come and find you!!!!
>
> ~Jade
Posted by JadeKelly on January 4, 2009, at 17:14:26
In reply to Re: What was or is your PARNATE experience? » JadeKelly, posted by jms600 on January 4, 2009, at 13:53:20
> Hi Jade
>
> That's ok! Please don't be worried - I was not offended!
>
> Yep - still having the severe panic, GAD, social anxiety etc... My p/doc is considering stopping the amitriptyline and replacing it with Effexor (while still keeping me on 600mg lithium and 40mg buspirone). I'm hoping the Effexor will do the trick as it's actually indicated for anxiety related problems, whereas amitriptyline is indicated only for depression.
>
> I was prescribed Effexor about 5 years ago and didn't think that much of it, however, I wasn't suffering the anxiety issues that I've got now.
>
> Talking of MAO inhibiters, I would like to try Nardil, everyone seems to hold the drug in high regard. However, I'm almost certain that my psychiatrist won't prescribe + I'm a bit concerned about the dietary restrictions.
>
> As someone who is taking Parnate, are the dietary restrictions really that bad, e.g. do you have to avoid cheese or alcohol..?
>
> Thanks!
> jms
Hey jms!Nardil I think WOULD be the one for you, if you take a MAOI. Nardil and Parnate are different in that Nardil is going to be a whole lot better for anxiety. I have a friend who really knows Nardil and alot about anxiety. Can you leave him a post? He'd be perfect for you to talk to, nice guy. (Don't let his name throw you off, he just wore out his welcome with Nardil, I think, haha) Its ParnateStarted2008, you can find him on this Parnate thread I believe. He wont care that its Nardil you want to talk about.
Stay calm and know you'll have to try a few things but something will help, unfortunatley we have to be patient (I hate that part!)
Oh, as for Klonopin? I've been taking it for years but not for anxiety. I took it for nerve pain. Any anti anxiety properties it has are wasted on me as I've grown tolerant. Don't take that stuff unless you need it, and thats fine, but if you keep taking it, or just for fun, you'll become tolerant to it and possibly all benzos. Not Sure. Ask Parnate2008 about those too, he'll know.
>
> Stay in touch, let me know if you can't get him, I'll track him down for ya!~Jade
>
> > jms600,
> >
> > Hope I didn't offend you, I know you were trying to help me! I'm actually on the course I want to be on, its just that I feel I'm asking so many random questions from people who have been there. I figure these "people in the know" would appreciate answering upcoming questions once (if they feel so inclined) rather than 10X.
> >
> > We do have many people on Parnate right now. I am excited I should be getting close, and I already had 10 days of full remission, NOT THE STIM HIGH. Just myself back. Its gone but I know it will return, for good.
> >
> > Frankly, I don't want to pester people with my questions any more than I have to. But my knowledge is still very limited, and I still trust experience over most other things.
> >
> > Btw-Thanks for answering my post, sorry for the confusion, how are you doing? Answer me back here or I will come and find you!!!!
> >
> > ~Jade
>
>
Posted by JadeKelly on January 5, 2009, at 21:31:45
In reply to Re: What was or is your PARNATE experience? » JadeKelly, posted by Phillipa on January 3, 2009, at 12:31:35
> Jade can you take lithium with parnate? Bloodwork done? Love Phillipa
Yes, some people take lithium with parnate, others take Lamictal with it. I geuss thats a decision to make with your Doc as they are not the same.
They both augment Parnate I believe to help it do its job.
~Jade
Posted by AdamCanada2 on January 6, 2009, at 9:00:37
In reply to What was or is your PARNATE experience?, posted by JadeKelly on January 2, 2009, at 18:52:13
Oh I have no problem with pdoc bashing. I have gone through several and the first I had convinced my family I was making it up because this baffoon couldn't believe that Accutane could possibly cause depression. A simple google search would reveal it has even killed a Congressman's son!
Parnate.... is one of the best medications I have tried for severe treatment resistant depression. The problem is severe insomnia and the reluctance of my current pdoc (ironically the best I have found) to prescribe me a proper sleep aid along with it.
I am at a loss for words almost at the world of so called psychiatry. When I know more about specific medications than my own pdoc there is a serious problem with how this so called pdocs are educated.
Who in their right mind would prescribe Parnate without a sleep aid??
> Hi guys,
>
> Want to get this in following previous thread, that I hope serves to educate those using Parnate and those thinking about or planning to use it. I realized how little info I was given in a 10-15 minute appt from PDoc, and how many questions that later arose. NOT PDoc bashing, just stating the obvious. If we are to get answers FOR ANY PARNATE QUESTION I hope some find it here or in the above post. MAOI users have to educate themselves. THAT would be good PDoc advice! Please, if you have an isolated horror story lets not scare people off. These drugs, I believe when used properly DO save lives.
>
> Thanks! ~Jade
Posted by JadeKelly on January 6, 2009, at 10:03:37
In reply to Parnate one of the best meds I've tried.... » JadeKelly, posted by AdamCanada2 on January 6, 2009, at 9:00:37
> Oh I have no problem with pdoc bashing. I have gone through several and the first I had convinced my family I was making it up because this baffoon couldn't believe that Accutane could possibly cause depression. A simple google search would reveal it has even killed a Congressman's son!
>
> Parnate.... is one of the best medications I have tried for severe treatment resistant depression. The problem is severe insomnia and the reluctance of my current pdoc (ironically the best I have found) to prescribe me a proper sleep aid along with it.
>
> I am at a loss for words almost at the world of so called psychiatry. When I know more about specific medications than my own pdoc there is a serious problem with how this so called pdocs are educated.
>
> Who in their right mind would prescribe Parnate without a sleep aid??
>
Hi AdamCanada,I feel your pain believe me. I think we talked before cause I recently remember saying that, its absurd to think that patients on Parnate are not going to need help for sleep problems. Your Doc just flat out said no? Did he give you a reason? Any other meds that would interfere maybe? Cause if not, I'd show him examples of every other Doc in the world prescibing them! Maybe you GP will prescribe them, although they don't like to interfere. I'll tell you what worked for me, this might sound lame but it DOES work. Buy over the counter 3mg Melatonin (or Plus for stress relief, but check with Pharmacist for contriadications). I take one at bedtime and one if I wake up. They only last 3 hours or so, so taking 2 at once won't help you stay asleep.
My PDoc didn't bother to check my BP. In retrospect, again, crazy! I wonder if anyone's does. I should be glad I geuss That I even got it but what happens when a patient comes in with unknown high BP? So how long after you took the med ACC. did you become depressed? Any ideas as to why? That really stinks. Sorry you have to deal with all that.
I have the same as you TR/MDD. Can you tell me your Parnate history? When you felt "real" A/D effects and on what dose? Has A/D been constant or transient? Do you take augment ie lithium, lamictal, etc.? Another A/D with it? How long have you been on it? I'm asking for myself, I'm trying to decide what to add or maybe increase dose, which I hate to do cause I'm at 60mg. Any info about your experience would be really great. Btw- My next stop is to see a psychopharmocolgist, I understand they really know their s*it. Maybe a good place for you if your Doc doesn't wake up.
Hope to hear from you, I'm running out of ideas! My effects at 60mg are transient at best, but had a ten day period of complete normalcy. Not that little "high" you get occasionally. So trying to figure out what caused that, and get back there!
Good luck to both of us! Sounds like you are already in transmission? Let me know! Thanks.
~Jade
Posted by JadeKelly on January 6, 2009, at 10:26:27
In reply to Re: What was or is your PARNATE experience? » JadeKelly, posted by Vincent_QC on January 4, 2009, at 8:59:00
Hi Vincent,
One thing I can say about Parnate, at least for me, the higher the dose, and/or the longer on it, the lower the side effects. Especially with BP. I still have some insomnia, however, if I'm serious about going to sleep at a certain time, I can do it. I just take melatonin (+ klonopin sometimes) and its not a problem. I do feel only 3/4 asleep part of the night, but I think thats fading also.
Give me an update when anything changes, I doubt you should expect any A/D effects at 40mg. Especially with your Nardil experience. Don't know if you should go slow with dose increases, or move along every 2 weeks. Ask Your Doc. Maybe with your experience with Nardil, you'll have to stay at each dose for a while. I'd look into best augments too, I think they can make the difference. I'm doing that now, so I'll let you know!
~Jade
Posted by SLS on January 6, 2009, at 10:26:57
In reply to Parnate one of the best meds I've tried.... » JadeKelly, posted by AdamCanada2 on January 6, 2009, at 9:00:37
For what it is worth, quite a bit of time was spent looking at MAOIs during a continuing education symposium that my doctor attended. He was happy to see this.
- Scott
Posted by JadeKelly on January 6, 2009, at 11:12:41
In reply to Re: Parnate one of the best meds I've tried...., posted by SLS on January 6, 2009, at 10:26:57
> For what it is worth, quite a bit of time was spent looking at MAOIs during a continuing education symposium that my doctor attended. He was happy to see this.
>
>
> - ScottThats cool. The thread or the post? He's quick if it was Adam's post! Also, I'm pretty sure you've seen it but I was on Johns Hopkin's Psych site, looking into Pharmocology, did you see the article by that Executive that ended up at John's Hopkins? "Money was no object", they put him on Parnate. Thats what put him into remission. He was depressive/bi-polar so I'm sure there's a cocktail. Let me know if you havent seen it. I'm curious as to dose, etc. It didn't say.
~Jade
Posted by SLS on January 6, 2009, at 11:49:08
In reply to Re: Parnate one of the best meds I've tried.... » SLS, posted by JadeKelly on January 6, 2009, at 11:12:41
I grew up teething on Parnate. It is still a strange feeling for me to look around and see that MAOIs have had to be re-discovered. People have suffered needlessly in the interim. I am still not so confident that MAOIs will return to mainstream clinical practice.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on January 6, 2009, at 12:30:28
In reply to Re: Parnate one of the best meds I've tried...., posted by SLS on January 6, 2009, at 11:49:08
I know about a year ago a past babbler looked for one for me from his doc who is elsewhere and only one in whole area that is quite large. Mine now kindda laughed when I mentioned a lot of people seemed to be on Mao's. She had one patient been on them so many years she'd forgotten her. She was prescribing at the time also as is quite old and wouldn't use them again. She was the one who gave me sample of EMSAM and then said no it was too stimulating for me. So I doubt that's my opinion they will come back. Especially with this economy and all the job losses so many in bad shape. Phillipa
Posted by JadeKelly on January 6, 2009, at 13:20:35
In reply to Re: Parnate one of the best meds I've tried...., posted by SLS on January 6, 2009, at 11:49:08
> I grew up teething on Parnate. It is still a strange feeling for me to look around and see that MAOIs have had to be re-discovered. People have suffered needlessly in the interim. I am still not so confident that MAOIs will return to mainstream clinical practice.
>
>
> - ScottNo wonder you have gum problems. Just swallow the thing. Regardless of my outcome, I am confident they will come back. There are too many people with clout who are being prescibed MAOI's. I know, where's my proof. When I started thinking about a A/D, 1st depression, I tried one or two SSRI's that made me physically ill. Thats when I started reading Babble, and anything else I could get my hands on. I went to the library at Sheppard Pratt. I know its being used at JH. My own PDoc had no problem prescribing it, after I politely told him to. I saw too many people trying to many drugs to get to remission. I'm sure there might be some combination that would have eventually worked for a while.
Your right, I have no patience. It has served me well at times. First I looked at what the most powerful A/D's were, regardless of s/e's. When you're as depressed as I have been, those side effects mean nothing (to me). So I saw RobertDavid do well on the Patch. I did well on patch. But when dosing up, it made sense to switch to Parnate. Did you see that executive at JH I told you about? He's telling anyone who will listen, and he's an influential man. When he went into JH, he told them "give me your most powerful treatment". Parnate. So I respectfully disagree. I believe MAOI's are making a comeback, and if PDocs like their jobs, they will educate themselves and start prescribing MAOI's, IMHO of course.
BTW-I believe the challenge is not the drug itself, but discovering how best to individualize augmentation, etc. and get it prescribed.
I'm curious, is this an active personal mission? Or do you follow whats happening?
~Jade
Posted by JadeKelly on January 6, 2009, at 13:33:42
In reply to Re: Parnate one of the best meds I've tried.... » SLS, posted by Phillipa on January 6, 2009, at 12:30:28
> I know about a year ago a past babbler looked for one for me from his doc who is elsewhere and only one in whole area that is quite large. Mine now kindda laughed when I mentioned a lot of people seemed to be on Mao's. She had one patient been on them so many years she'd forgotten her. She was prescribing at the time also as is quite old and wouldn't use them again. She was the one who gave me sample of EMSAM and then said no it was too stimulating for me. So I doubt that's my opinion they will come back. Especially with this economy and all the job losses so many in bad shape. Phillipa
Lets look at that. "This economy...job losses...so many in bad shape", equals what? Lots of depressed people. Alot of the jobs being lost are to educated people who still have good health insurance.
So once again, I respectfully disagree.
~Jade
Posted by JadeKelly on January 6, 2009, at 13:36:22
In reply to Re: Parnate one of the best meds I've tried...., posted by JadeKelly on January 6, 2009, at 13:33:42
Posted by Phillipa on January 6, 2009, at 20:13:08
In reply to Re: Parnate one of the best meds I've tried...., posted by JadeKelly on January 6, 2009, at 13:33:42
Jade that's fine to disagree. I wonder if there is a way to find out how many docs actually use MAOI's. Anyone have any advise? Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on January 6, 2009, at 21:10:06
In reply to Re: Parnate one of the best meds I've tried.... » JadeKelly, posted by Phillipa on January 6, 2009, at 20:13:08
One last note job losses doesn't always equal depression. As many neighbors have and their kids some are going back to school, some will ride it out and wait, some say they will rent their houses and scale down. A lady 2 years to retirement just says what are you gonna do? So some depressions are situational and these real people aren't depressed maybe upset but not in distress. Some look to God or whatever their belief is. So many ways to look at a lost job. Love Phillipa
Posted by AdamCanada2 on January 7, 2009, at 8:01:46
In reply to Re: Parnate one of the best meds I've tried.... » AdamCanada2, posted by JadeKelly on January 6, 2009, at 10:03:37
For me parnate works pretty much after the first dose. That is when I noticed a benificial effect. The week prior being on no meds except ativan (switched back to valium because my lousy pharmacist finally returned... they sure love their prolonged vacations) I felt horrendous. My baseline depression would be constant often burning head pains, anhedonia, lack of emotions, poor mood, inability to enjoy things, I would be a zombie basically. I would feel as if I was only a tiny fraction of my real self.
Then parnate I started taking again with my valium. 10mg at first divided twice a day for 3 days. The first day... my best friend called me and I was amazed how well I could talk on the phone again. Unbelievable. The day prior I would be scared out of my mind to talk to anyone. Social anxiety along with the fact that a zombie version of me would have nothing more to say besides... ''hey, hope you had a happy new year''. But now I was finally talking again. Also during the first day I found everything to be a bit more enjoyable/interesting AND my burning head pains would begin to deminish.
Now for 2 days I been on 15 mg divided by 10 + 5 and gee Sleeping is a pain in the rear end. I need a sleep aid badly. When I started on this higher dose I felt an initial boost in my mood and I could probably still feel it if it wasn't for sleep exhaustion. How can I tell how a medication is really effecting me if I cannot get normal hours of sleep? I had zero hours of sleep the first day of 15mg and today I had maybe 6 hours after waking up so many times and having to fall asleep again and again.
Here in Canada we dont have general practitioners but... family doctors. Last time I tried to get a real sleep aid such as ambien or lunesta prescribed the jerk told me I need to do that through my pdoc.
So whatever. If my pdoc refuses to help when I may be taking the best medication that I have tried over these past 6 darn years then I will take it into my own hands and order a sleep aid online because I am sick of this nonsense. Why does it seem every pdoc is less knowledgable and less competent than I am?
Maybe I should start printing out a bunch of pages of people giving their own experiences of how they NEEDED a sleep aid with Parnate to finally get it through my doctor's head. I'm just frustrated because this is my health on the line here.
Augmentations.... Ritalin for a week worked amazingly well but the insomnia issue would not improve and perhaps even get worse to the point where I began to give up on Parnate due to having seemingly ''normal'' half days and horrendous evenings.
Also coffee seemed to work well despite the so called contradiction but... at 10mg back then I guess it wasn't able to contradict Parnate much anyway but certian other foods such as protien shakes would make me dizzy.
So I can't take those P shakes that's for sure.
Lamictal you mentioned.... I should add that to the list of possible augmentations.
> > Oh I have no problem with pdoc bashing. I have gone through several and the first I had convinced my family I was making it up because this baffoon couldn't believe that Accutane could possibly cause depression. A simple google search would reveal it has even killed a Congressman's son!
> >
> > Parnate.... is one of the best medications I have tried for severe treatment resistant depression. The problem is severe insomnia and the reluctance of my current pdoc (ironically the best I have found) to prescribe me a proper sleep aid along with it.
> >
> > I am at a loss for words almost at the world of so called psychiatry. When I know more about specific medications than my own pdoc there is a serious problem with how this so called pdocs are educated.
> >
> > Who in their right mind would prescribe Parnate without a sleep aid??
> >
> Hi AdamCanada,
>
> I feel your pain believe me. I think we talked before cause I recently remember saying that, its absurd to think that patients on Parnate are not going to need help for sleep problems. Your Doc just flat out said no? Did he give you a reason? Any other meds that would interfere maybe? Cause if not, I'd show him examples of every other Doc in the world prescibing them! Maybe you GP will prescribe them, although they don't like to interfere. I'll tell you what worked for me, this might sound lame but it DOES work. Buy over the counter 3mg Melatonin (or Plus for stress relief, but check with Pharmacist for contriadications). I take one at bedtime and one if I wake up. They only last 3 hours or so, so taking 2 at once won't help you stay asleep.
>
> My PDoc didn't bother to check my BP. In retrospect, again, crazy! I wonder if anyone's does. I should be glad I geuss That I even got it but what happens when a patient comes in with unknown high BP? So how long after you took the med ACC. did you become depressed? Any ideas as to why? That really stinks. Sorry you have to deal with all that.
>
> I have the same as you TR/MDD. Can you tell me your Parnate history? When you felt "real" A/D effects and on what dose? Has A/D been constant or transient? Do you take augment ie lithium, lamictal, etc.? Another A/D with it? How long have you been on it? I'm asking for myself, I'm trying to decide what to add or maybe increase dose, which I hate to do cause I'm at 60mg. Any info about your experience would be really great. Btw- My next stop is to see a psychopharmocolgist, I understand they really know their s*it. Maybe a good place for you if your Doc doesn't wake up.
>
> Hope to hear from you, I'm running out of ideas! My effects at 60mg are transient at best, but had a ten day period of complete normalcy. Not that little "high" you get occasionally. So trying to figure out what caused that, and get back there!
>
> Good luck to both of us! Sounds like you are already in transmission? Let me know! Thanks.
>
> ~Jade
Posted by bleauberry on January 7, 2009, at 10:44:33
In reply to Long response, Augmentation exp at bottom.... » JadeKelly, posted by AdamCanada2 on January 7, 2009, at 8:01:46
Adam, your best augmentation is probably time. 3 to 6 months more. And maybe higher doses. And definitely something for sleep. I have never done an MAOI, but from reading posts over many years, it seems they really do take months to ramp up efficacy, with good days and bad days mixed in randomly along the journey.
Time and sleep are probably your best friends at this moment, not another drug. Just an opinion though. I know how it is to want something now, something fast.
Posted by JadeKelly on January 7, 2009, at 11:24:52
In reply to Long response, Augmentation exp at bottom.... » JadeKelly, posted by AdamCanada2 on January 7, 2009, at 8:01:46
Hi AdamCanada,
I'm afraid that in the beginning of treatment you are going to have to deal with some insomnia. My PDoc would probably give me something but I did well enough on the 6mg melatonin plus 1mg Klonopin. I Find also that if I am strict about my schedule my body will get used to that. Just know that in time yours will too. As for augmentations, we talked about lithium and lamictal I believe, but you'll want to talk to your PDoc first to find out when you'll get the most benefit from whatever you choose. Actually you CAN have protien shakes, but they need to be Whey, NOT SOY. Just check the ingredients carefully, ask if you're not sure. I drink the Whey but some ARE mixed with Soy so check 1st. Also, you can have coffee. They took that off the NO list. Best advice I can give you is patience. This isn't a quick fix. So do what you think is best for your sleep, but if you have insomnia, you will have it along with most others starting Parnate! I'm at 3 months+ and if I want to I can fall asleep at 7:30pm! Yours will mellow out too.
~Jade :*)
Posted by JadeKelly on January 7, 2009, at 11:39:46
In reply to Re: Parnate one of the best meds I've tried.... » JadeKelly, posted by Phillipa on January 6, 2009, at 20:13:08
> Jade that's fine to disagree. I wonder if there is a way to find out how many docs actually use MAOI's. Anyone have any advise? Love Phillipa
Yeah, I'd be interested to know that. Seems there must be a group such as FDA that keeps track of that kind of info. Or how many pharmacys dispence MAOI's. I bet what you'd find right now is long term use by a select number of people. I've seen people on MAOI's, on other sites, with much longer use than other A/D's.
Now there's a test, of the current users of say 2+ years, how do MAOI's rate in terms of longevity. I think hands down, MAOI as a class would top that list. Just a geuss.
~Jade
Posted by JadeKelly on January 7, 2009, at 11:46:05
In reply to Re: Parnate one of the best meds I've tried...., posted by Phillipa on January 6, 2009, at 21:10:06
> One last note job losses doesn't always equal depression. As many neighbors have and their kids some are going back to school, some will ride it out and wait, some say they will rent their houses and scale down. A lady 2 years to retirement just says what are you gonna do? So some depressions are situational and these real people aren't depressed maybe upset but not in distress. Some look to God or whatever their belief is. So many ways to look at a lost job. Love Phillipa
Yes there are, but that doesn't nullify the fact that "many" become depressed at losing their livelyhood. I would imagine especially breadwinners, men or women, who have children and families that rely on those incomes.
~Jade
Posted by Phillipa on January 7, 2009, at 20:00:02
In reply to Re: Parnate one of the best meds I've tried...., posted by JadeKelly on January 7, 2009, at 11:46:05
I'm sure some do but not all. Like my brother in law just lost his and my Husband's twin is his wife and she needs insurance as constant back surgeries unable to work now and they just bought a farm and built stables to keep horses and were also buying and selling horses now the people can't afford. He's not depressed. And he also has thyroid issues like me. Depends on the person. Love Jan
Posted by Cseagraves on January 7, 2009, at 21:02:27
In reply to Re: Parnate one of the best meds I've tried...., posted by JadeKelly on January 7, 2009, at 11:46:05
O.k. - i'm gonna jump into this one even though I haven't actually even started on parnate yet. (Am still weening off last week of Lexapro and then have to take my two-week break before starting the parnate). I've already posted a couple of questions concerning parnate because I am as concerned (probably overly) as the rest of you are who are new to this med. I research everything to the hilt and then some and I read every post.
Jade - one of the sites I went to was askapatient.com and looked at the reviews on parnate in addition to the other maoi's and parnate got the best of all reviews even with all of the interactions. Someone there also made a post about what his pdoc told him to do when it felt like the effects were wearing off. Something about not taking it for a period of time (cold turkey) and then starting back up again. I can't remember everything exactly, but I'm sure you could find the post on there easily and also read some of the other reviews. As for me, I'm sure I will be an even bigger pain than you on here with all of the questions I have. AND SCOTT YOU CAN JUMP IN ANYTIME!!!!
I still have so many questions and concerns, because I am already being treated for HBP, so I'm not real clear about how that is going to be handled. I will be asking my pdoc about nifedipine. Can I still exercise to the degree that I used to (running five miles a day, weight training) I did this alot before the GAD got really bad and then I became agoraphobic. My hope is that I will be able to do this on the parnate at some point since all ssri's have failed. I just want my life back. I used to be fun, active, outgoing, very sociable and feared nothing (well except flying, but I was at least willing to get on the plane and try). Not now, you couldn't even get me to the airport at this point. Was in nursing school, had a career going, always doing things with my husband and kids. Have always been health conscious and tried every natural approach when the GAD hit a couple of years ago.
Also went to several therapist hoping that they would be the "magic person" that would help. Was told that it probably stemmed from a highly abusive and stressful childhood. (Whatever!!!) I've seen people who have had worse childhoods than mine and they are not like this. Desperate and trying to get through school and raise two sons I gave in to trying ssri's (reluctantly). Tried them all pretty much with the same effect. Great for a couple of months, then would poop out. Had a very active life and don't understand what flipped the switch. Please know that I am not whining, just venting a little. I'm not depressed, just highly pissed. :-)
I guess to, I'm just wanting everyone to now a little about me since I have been reading your post for quite some time and I will be posting here alot. Sorry. My point before I got on my wagon was that I'm the new parnate "virgin" here since I haven't started it yet and I'm sure I will be posting on a daily basis when I do. And at least I will know more of what to expect thanks to all of you who have already started this med or have taken it before. I am even amazed that my pdoc, knowing how much i was struggling, never suggested maoi's. I brought it up to him, which he was O.K. with, but he was not sure what to do when I asked him about me already taking meds for HBP. I had to call my GP for that one.
I am learning quickly that I will have to be the informed one and seek out most of my answers. Please be ready because I am sure I will be bombarding you with questions over the next couple of weeks and then some. I am thankful for all of the people here and the advice given in your posts to others. Hopefully I can be of some help to others when they first start this med. Didn't mean to babble so long, but I have been on a rollercoaster all day coming off this lexapro. Head won't stop spinning. Think I'll go lay down now. Nice to meet everyone. I'm sure you will be hearing from me again soon. Namaste'
Courtney
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