![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 64. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JadeKelly on January 2, 2009, at 18:52:13
Hi guys,
Want to get this in following previous thread, that I hope serves to educate those using Parnate and those thinking about or planning to use it. I realized how little info I was given in a 10-15 minute appt from PDoc, and how many questions that later arose. NOT PDoc bashing, just stating the obvious. If we are to get answers FOR ANY PARNATE QUESTION I hope some find it here or in the above post. MAOI users have to educate themselves. THAT would be good PDoc advice! Please, if you have an isolated horror story lets not scare people off. These drugs, I believe when used properly DO save lives.
Thanks! ~Jade
Posted by shasling on January 3, 2009, at 1:25:22
In reply to What was or is your PARNATE experience?, posted by JadeKelly on January 2, 2009, at 18:52:13
The initial low dose of parnate usualy is exciting,new form of med,and the reaction was form me so intense i thought i was in total remission.
Perhaps this was simply my body in bliss to have a med that wasnt a ssri which i personaly react bad to the entire class.
Insomnia usualy starts immediatly,but most dont mind since for the first time that sick ill feeling in the gut has been locked in tight,and they usualy dont loathe the insomnia.For me my body was prone to interactions of all the mentioned only during the first week,so i had a initial scare luckly i stuck through.
NOW as you move down the line you notice that single tablet does nothing,and you quickly find yourself on 20-30 mg,and although AD effect is present,there isnt a stimulant type of bliss any longer.
Parnate prosTakes away that deep down depressive feeling in the gut,and at the least takes away the fear of depression if not the exsistince of it.
If done right,it actualy is very friendly with many other meds,just not AD`S but many other possably social enhancing drugs.
Dose range can be raised quite high if the medical people are asked.Although alone not socialy active,such as seeking social contact,it does allow one to engange in social situations,you just dont have the URGE for them and become content with being alone.
New info shows it has a gaba b affect,curious to know how gaba b meds will react with it.
Has a unkown postiive affect on dopamine.
For males loss of erection extremly unlikly,high libido likly,inability to "finish"likly.
Short half life,even debatable to be somewhat of a revasable to ireversable maoi.
Parnate cons
First week can be the most dangerous in side effects and interactions,take it slow,do not use posts for info and follow docs orders.
At ALMOST any dose will somewhere down the line cause severe inosmnia.Even if it works,usualy requires a benzo to aid it from minor shakes and overstimulation.
Hard drug to pin down,good go from stimulant to needing to nap in the afternoon.Many feelings of loss of energy on it,however simple caffiene tablets,NOT COFFEE as coffee grind itself is calming usualy takes away the letahrgy daytime affect of parnate.
Does not induce social behavior,possably might a little more with augment with a gaba agent.
Company itself knows very little of the drug,and lots of misinformation is put out in posts from one single abstract.
Tablets come in unreasonably small sizes,makes fallen tabs on the carpet possable and the possable death of a animal at risk,use cautuin especialy when on a high dose and a number of tablets are being used.
Now im sure well see tons of other info,all i can say for sure is just respect the drug,give it time to work,and use caution from w/d from it.
Happy belated New Year Everyone
Posted by linkadge on January 3, 2009, at 8:53:37
In reply to What was or is your PARNATE experience?, posted by JadeKelly on January 2, 2009, at 18:52:13
Dark moods, chronic insomnia, borderline psychosis, and high blood pressure.
Linkadge
Posted by JadeKelly on January 3, 2009, at 11:59:20
In reply to Re: What was or is your PARNATE experience?, posted by shasling on January 3, 2009, at 1:25:22
Hi guys,
My first week on Parnate was uneventful. I started at 30mg in morns. 2nd week was incredible, no depression AT ALL, extra good mood (quite amazing), found out thats a feeling that follows most dose increases for a few days. Have had transient sleep problems, sometimes insomnia, sometimes fall asleep early and sleep late. For a little while, I had late day fatigue but if I faught it, it would subside in an hour or less. Most people lose wieght in the first 3-4 weeks or so, unless you remember to eat 3 meals. If you want to you could easily lose weight on Parnate.
My 11th day woke with bad headache and high BP, ended up just waiting it out at Hosp. Still don't know what caused it, and haven't had any high BP since. I did get smart and get script from PDoc, an antidote called Nifedipine. I keep it in my purse and at home. Havent needed it but nice to know its there. Low BP was annoying for me in beginning. I'd have to stand up slowly or I'd get dizzy and have to lay down. That mostly passed several weeks in. Stayed at 30mg for 6 weeks, I think cause Doc forgot me! I called and asked to go to 40mg, I got 3-4 days of bliss, week 1/2 later, went to 50mg, 3-4 days of bliss. At 40mg I started dosing twice a day, 8am, then noon. Probably could have waited till 1 or 2. I feel good stimulation a little while after dosing.
Late December, I added 5mg ritalin (DON'T DO THIS EXCEPT UNDER DOCS CARE). My Depression came with an unbelievable lethargy, so even with stim from Parnate, I NEEDED a boost for holidays. First day didn't feel it at all. 2nd day on Parnate and ritalin, I went into 10 day remission. Not "high" like when dosing, but felt great and like myself again. Unfortunately, 11-12 days later it was gone. I wish I had known this is common. Next, 2 days of emotional extremes. I cried for the first time in YEARS. I was angry and irritable, etc. Some, I, hear, get sensitive in a good way. Not me, so I got some advise (PDOC out of town) and took melatonin-plus, 6mg, and felt calm again. Also great for sleep btw. I have klonopin and I prefer melatonin for sleep. If you wake up during the night, take one at bedtime, and one when you wake up. I've also added lithium, that seems to help even out my mood.
So here it is:
60mg Parnate
5-10mg ritalin
450 Lithium ER
sleep aidMood so-so, I will post when full remission happens. It happened for 10 days, so I'm waiting for rest of MAOI to do its job, and hopefully, 100% response as before.
~Jade
PS-my diagnosis: TR/MDD
Posted by Phillipa on January 3, 2009, at 12:31:35
In reply to Re: What was or is your PARNATE experience? » shasling, posted by JadeKelly on January 3, 2009, at 11:59:20
Jade can you take lithium with parnate? Bloodwork done? Love Phillipa
Posted by bulldog2 on January 3, 2009, at 12:38:38
In reply to Re: What was or is your PARNATE experience? » JadeKelly, posted by Phillipa on January 3, 2009, at 12:31:35
> Jade can you take lithium with parnate? Bloodwork done? Love Phillipa
I would assume you can take lithium with parnate if her doc prescribed it.
Posted by bulldog2 on January 3, 2009, at 12:41:31
In reply to Re: What was or is your PARNATE experience? » shasling, posted by JadeKelly on January 3, 2009, at 11:59:20
> Hi guys,
>
> My first week on Parnate was uneventful. I started at 30mg in morns. 2nd week was incredible, no depression AT ALL, extra good mood (quite amazing), found out thats a feeling that follows most dose increases for a few days. Have had transient sleep problems, sometimes insomnia, sometimes fall asleep early and sleep late. For a little while, I had late day fatigue but if I faught it, it would subside in an hour or less. Most people lose wieght in the first 3-4 weeks or so, unless you remember to eat 3 meals. If you want to you could easily lose weight on Parnate.
>
> My 11th day woke with bad headache and high BP, ended up just waiting it out at Hosp. Still don't know what caused it, and haven't had any high BP since. I did get smart and get script from PDoc, an antidote called Nifedipine. I keep it in my purse and at home. Havent needed it but nice to know its there. Low BP was annoying for me in beginning. I'd have to stand up slowly or I'd get dizzy and have to lay down. That mostly passed several weeks in. Stayed at 30mg for 6 weeks, I think cause Doc forgot me! I called and asked to go to 40mg, I got 3-4 days of bliss, week 1/2 later, went to 50mg, 3-4 days of bliss. At 40mg I started dosing twice a day, 8am, then noon. Probably could have waited till 1 or 2. I feel good stimulation a little while after dosing.
>
> Late December, I added 5mg ritalin (DON'T DO THIS EXCEPT UNDER DOCS CARE). My Depression came with an unbelievable lethargy, so even with stim from Parnate, I NEEDED a boost for holidays. First day didn't feel it at all. 2nd day on Parnate and ritalin, I went into 10 day remission. Not "high" like when dosing, but felt great and like myself again. Unfortunately, 11-12 days later it was gone. I wish I had known this is common. Next, 2 days of emotional extremes. I cried for the first time in YEARS. I was angry and irritable, etc. Some, I, hear, get sensitive in a good way. Not me, so I got some advise (PDOC out of town) and took melatonin-plus, 6mg, and felt calm again. Also great for sleep btw. I have klonopin and I prefer melatonin for sleep. If you wake up during the night, take one at bedtime, and one when you wake up. I've also added lithium, that seems to help even out my mood.
>
> So here it is:
>
> 60mg Parnate
> 5-10mg ritalin
> 450 Lithium ER
> sleep aid
>
> Mood so-so, I will post when full remission happens. It happened for 10 days, so I'm waiting for rest of MAOI to do its job, and hopefully, 100% response as before.
>
> ~Jade
>
> PS-my diagnosis: TR/MDDYou might try neurontin or lyrica in place of klonopin. In my experience neurontin is more pro-social than klonopin and has ad and anti-anxiety effects for me.
Posted by bulldog2 on January 3, 2009, at 12:53:21
In reply to Re: What was or is your PARNATE experience? » shasling, posted by JadeKelly on January 3, 2009, at 11:59:20
> Hi guys,
>
> My first week on Parnate was uneventful. I started at 30mg in morns. 2nd week was incredible, no depression AT ALL, extra good mood (quite amazing), found out thats a feeling that follows most dose increases for a few days. Have had transient sleep problems, sometimes insomnia, sometimes fall asleep early and sleep late. For a little while, I had late day fatigue but if I faught it, it would subside in an hour or less. Most people lose wieght in the first 3-4 weeks or so, unless you remember to eat 3 meals. If you want to you could easily lose weight on Parnate.
>
> My 11th day woke with bad headache and high BP, ended up just waiting it out at Hosp. Still don't know what caused it, and haven't had any high BP since. I did get smart and get script from PDoc, an antidote called Nifedipine. I keep it in my purse and at home. Havent needed it but nice to know its there. Low BP was annoying for me in beginning. I'd have to stand up slowly or I'd get dizzy and have to lay down. That mostly passed several weeks in. Stayed at 30mg for 6 weeks, I think cause Doc forgot me! I called and asked to go to 40mg, I got 3-4 days of bliss, week 1/2 later, went to 50mg, 3-4 days of bliss. At 40mg I started dosing twice a day, 8am, then noon. Probably could have waited till 1 or 2. I feel good stimulation a little while after dosing.
>
> Late December, I added 5mg ritalin (DON'T DO THIS EXCEPT UNDER DOCS CARE). My Depression came with an unbelievable lethargy, so even with stim from Parnate, I NEEDED a boost for holidays. First day didn't feel it at all. 2nd day on Parnate and ritalin, I went into 10 day remission. Not "high" like when dosing, but felt great and like myself again. Unfortunately, 11-12 days later it was gone. I wish I had known this is common. Next, 2 days of emotional extremes. I cried for the first time in YEARS. I was angry and irritable, etc. Some, I, hear, get sensitive in a good way. Not me, so I got some advise (PDOC out of town) and took melatonin-plus, 6mg, and felt calm again. Also great for sleep btw. I have klonopin and I prefer melatonin for sleep. If you wake up during the night, take one at bedtime, and one when you wake up. I've also added lithium, that seems to help even out my mood.
>
> So here it is:
>
> 60mg Parnate
> 5-10mg ritalin
> 450 Lithium ER
> sleep aid
>
> Mood so-so, I will post when full remission happens. It happened for 10 days, so I'm waiting for rest of MAOI to do its job, and hopefully, 100% response as before.
>
> ~Jade
>
> PS-my diagnosis: TR/MDDFrom what's I've read parnate has two fold action. It has the structure of a stimulant and also maoi action. I think the immediate ad response some people get are due to the stimulant response which later disappears. Possibly each dosage increase gives a brief stimulant response. Than hopefully the maoi ad response kicks in.I think ritalin blocks reuptake of ne which makes it safer than other stims which just cause a release of ne.
I have a feeling that the spontaneous hypertensive crisis for some is due to it's two fold action. You're getting an maoi along with stim action which releases ne.The other maois don't have this action so hence have less hypertensive reaction.
Posted by JadeKelly on January 3, 2009, at 14:35:13
In reply to Re: What was or is your PARNATE experience?, posted by bulldog2 on January 3, 2009, at 12:41:31
> "You might try neurontin or lyrica in place of klonopin. In my experience neurontin is more pro-social than klonopin and has ad and anti-anxiety effects for me."
But I'd still have to w/d from Klonopin, right? I take it for nerve pain and not sure I even need it anymore. No psych dependence at all. I like the idea of neurontin as it treats nerve pain if it turns out I did need something. It helps with sleep? Or do you have to take during day to get all benefits?
Thanks
~Jade
Posted by JadeKelly on January 3, 2009, at 15:11:50
In reply to Re: What was or is your PARNATE experience?, posted by bulldog2 on January 3, 2009, at 12:53:21
>
> From what's I've read parnate has two fold action. It has the structure of a stimulant and also maoi action. I think the immediate ad response some people get are due to the stimulant response which later disappears. Possibly each dosage increase gives a brief stimulant response. Than hopefully the maoi ad response kicks in.I think ritalin blocks reuptake of ne which makes it safer than other stims which just cause a release of ne.
> I have a feeling that the spontaneous hypertensive crisis for some is due to it's two fold action. You're getting an maoi along with stim action which releases ne.The other maois don't have this action so hence have less hypertensive reaction.I know of 2 other people from this board, or anywhere, that had spontanious hypertention. I think its an early response while body adjusts. As far as I know, none of us ever had a problem again. I know I didn't. I think what you said sounds right for a very few as their bodies adjust. Most have no problem at all.
Sounds right, the week long "rush" and the 2-4 day "rush" felt at dose increases is a stimulant causing a great mood/high.(I didn't add 5mg ritalin until I was at 50mg) However, the 10 day remission I got a week after dosing to 60mg was not the same. THAT was A/D effect.
That definately felt like remission, not "high". I even asked family (everywhere) and they agreed, I just seemed like myself. So I was disappointed when it left, but now I know its possible and I either need a little more time or a little more tweaking.
Right now, only complaints are fatigue (was with me long before Parnate), and these "stages", not knowing what comes next. Maybe its geusswork but I'd still like to hear it.
Thanks All,
JadeBTW-Bulldog, weren't you thinking of trying Parnate?
Posted by bulldog2 on January 3, 2009, at 17:02:55
In reply to Re: What was or is your PARNATE experience? » bulldog2, posted by JadeKelly on January 3, 2009, at 14:35:13
> > "You might try neurontin or lyrica in place of klonopin. In my experience neurontin is more pro-social than klonopin and has ad and anti-anxiety effects for me."
>
> But I'd still have to w/d from Klonopin, right? I take it for nerve pain and not sure I even need it anymore. No psych dependence at all. I like the idea of neurontin as it treats nerve pain if it turns out I did need something. It helps with sleep? Or do you have to take during day to get all benefits?
>
> Thanks
> ~Jade
>
>
I take it during the day high dose 3600 and it stimulates me...Sometimes makes me drowsy and I take coffee to wake me up...I usually take 2 milligrams klonopin on days I don't take neurontin...On days I take neurotin I take .5 or 1 milligram and sometimes none at all(klonopin)...You can wean off klonopin while taking neurontin.....
You can start at a lower dose like 600 or even 300 three times a day for an ad and anti anixety dose.
I don't take it everyday as people say you will build a tolerance to it...ive taken it as much as 6 days in a row and it worked...usually only three times a week tops....Just a nice adjunct like having a few drinks but nicer and cleaner and a little stim feeling.
Posted by bulldog2 on January 3, 2009, at 17:23:54
In reply to Re: What was or is your PARNATE experience?, posted by bulldog2 on January 3, 2009, at 17:02:55
> > > "You might try neurontin or lyrica in place of klonopin. In my experience neurontin is more pro-social than klonopin and has ad and anti-anxiety effects for me."
> >
> > But I'd still have to w/d from Klonopin, right? I take it for nerve pain and not sure I even need it anymore. No psych dependence at all. I like the idea of neurontin as it treats nerve pain if it turns out I did need something. It helps with sleep? Or do you have to take during day to get all benefits?
> >
> > Thanks
> > ~Jade
> >
> >
> I take it during the day high dose 3600 and it stimulates me...Sometimes makes me drowsy and I take coffee to wake me up...I usually take 2 milligrams klonopin on days I don't take neurontin...On days I take neurotin I take .5 or 1 milligram and sometimes none at all(klonopin)...You can wean off klonopin while taking neurontin.....
> You can start at a lower dose like 600 or even 300 three times a day for an ad and anti anixety dose.
> I don't take it everyday as people say you will build a tolerance to it...ive taken it as much as 6 days in a row and it worked...usually only three times a week tops....Just a nice adjunct like having a few drinks but nicer and cleaner and a little stim feeling.
>
>The stim effect is good in a way...It makes you feel good until the real ad effect kicks in.
I was thinking of trying it...But i'm 60 with treated hypertension...So I don't know if this is to dangerous for me.
I think nardil might be safer in terms of hypertension...It has a rep for causing weight gain...I like the parnate but would have to go low dose like 30 mg and take separate doses...
Posted by JadeKelly on January 3, 2009, at 21:01:25
In reply to Re: What was or is your PARNATE experience?, posted by bulldog2 on January 3, 2009, at 17:23:54
> > > > "You might try neurontin or lyrica in place of klonopin. In my experience neurontin is more pro-social than klonopin and has ad and anti-anxiety effects for me."
> > >
> > > But I'd still have to w/d from Klonopin, right? I take it for nerve pain and not sure I even need it anymore. No psych dependence at all. I like the idea of neurontin as it treats nerve pain if it turns out I did need something. It helps with sleep? Or do you have to take during day to get all benefits?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > ~Jade
> > >
> > >
> > I take it during the day high dose 3600 and it stimulates me...Sometimes makes me drowsyWell no wonder your drowsy, thats twice the high dose! Jeez!
and I take coffee to wake me up...I usually take 2 milligrams klonopin on days I don't take neurontin...On days I take neurotin I take .5 or 1 milligram and sometimes none at all(klonopin)...You can wean off klonopin while taking neurontin.....
> > You can start at a lower dose like 600 or even 300 three times a day for an ad and anti anixety dose.Will it take care of physical w/d's from Klonopin if I just cold turkey switch?
> > I don't take it everyday as people say you will build a tolerance to it...ive taken it as much as 6 days in a row and it worked...usually only three times a week tops....Just a nice adjunct like having a few drinks but nicer and cleaner and a little stim feeling.I remember now, you were looking for something to even out 7 days that you wouldn't get rapid tolerance to. Isnt it just an anti-siezure med? What about the Lyrica (know nothing about that one) the other days? Pretty sure your Doc doesn't know about neurontin dose??!! And would I get that result at regular dose? Won't interfere with my Parnate response?
Alright then, get out your prescription pad.
> >
> >
>
> The stim effect is good in a way...It makes you feel good until the real ad effect kicks in.
> I was thinking of trying it...But i'm 60
with treated hypertension...So I don't know if this is to dangerous for me.Could you explain the above so I know which meds you are referring to? Also, I mentioned something I read, old, that said people above 60, or 65, don't remember, shouldn't use MAOI's. Dumb. People are so much healthier now, whatever that was I wish I hadn't mentioned it. It seems to have circulated.
> I think nardil might be safer in terms of hypertension...It has a rep for causing weight gain...I like the parnate but would have to go low dose like 30 mg and take separate doses...If you already have a hypertension that you're being treated for, I'd think carefully before trying a MAOI. Talk to a lot of people about it first. Nardil is a weight gainer, and Parnate very stimulating, niether great candidates for someone with hypertention. If it was me, I'd find something else.
But what the hell do I know?! ha!
~Jade
PS- let me know when my scripts are ready, thnx
Posted by ParnateStarted2008 on January 3, 2009, at 22:20:25
In reply to What was or is your PARNATE experience?, posted by JadeKelly on January 2, 2009, at 18:52:13
I switched from Nardil to Parnate about 5 month ago. I switched over night from 90mgsNardil to 40mgParnate. I have augmented up to 70mgs now. I have Social Phobia which leads to depression and agoraphobia.
Each 10 mg dose increase gives me a stimulating, euphoric buzz that lasts 1-3 days then stops. I ve been reading here that higher doses of Parnate help people with anxiety (like 80mg/day +)? So maybe I should beging thinking about going higher.
I find Parnate has minimal side effects, insomnia being the only really hard one. All other SE's are tolerable ie. rapid heart beat after dosing for about an hour, increase libito, little bit of jaw clenching, over stimulated emotions across the entire spectrum.Here is a weid thing that happens to me while on Parnate/Nardil... any input would be nice or if anyone has similar experiences.
NArdil&Parnate: after 12 hours of my last dose I become happier, easy going, have a big smile on my face, enjoy talking to people and joking around and has a great antianxiety effect. The happy feeling is what kills anxiety and from my experience is how ssri's made me feel when they were working. Paxil,Celexa,Zoloft all working purely on serotonin making me happy with euphoria making previous anxiety provoking situations much easier to handle because im not scared in the situation, the happiness of the pill keeps me happy allowing me to just forget about being terrified and do the task because im so damn happy. Well that was a long time ago when ssri's worked. Effexor shared this same happy quality except also has the Dopamine and NE working so that made me task oriented aswell as being happy (efexor quit on me after a month). This happy serotonin feeling gets me quite euphoric and I can easily be riding a thin line close to hypomania. In this state I was productive and mentally satisfied. I am now on the never ending quest to get back there.
For some reason 12-15 hours after my last dose(Parnate/Nardil) I feel the happy feeling and Its just wonderful to say the least. I can last in this state for 2 days if I dont dose. After 2 days withdrawl becomes evident so I have to take my Parnate/Nardil again. When I do, the happy feeling dissapears and it seems as tho the med isnt working. I cant explain why this happens but it does. I have a funny feeling that after 12 hours the Epineph/Norepineph/DA effect dissapears but the serotonin effect stays for a couple days. Its like as if when all 4 major neurotransmitters are in balance in the synaptic gap they cancel each other out and I dont feel very well. Its like after about 12 hours or so all neurotransmitters are down regulated by having less of the medication to keep their concentrations high But it seems like serotonin does not get down regulated or loose its effect for about 2 days allowing me to feel solely its effect since the other neuros are long gone deminished.
I have no clue if that is what happens, but it seems to be the simplest explenation I can come up with... this just help to explain how I feel.
So how can I remain in the "good state"?
Posted by JadeKelly on January 3, 2009, at 22:24:06
In reply to What was or is your PARNATE experience?, posted by JadeKelly on January 2, 2009, at 18:52:13
jms600,
Hope I didn't offend you, I know you were trying to help me! I'm actually on the course I want to be on, its just that I feel I'm asking so many random questions from people who have been there. I figure these "people in the know" would appreciate answering upcoming questions once (if they feel so inclined) rather than 10X.
We do have many people on Parnate right now. I am excited I should be getting close, and I already had 10 days of full remission, NOT THE STIM HIGH. Just myself back. Its gone but I know it will return, for good.
Frankly, I don't want to pester people with my questions any more than I have to. But my knowledge is still very limited, and I still trust experience over most other things.
Btw-Thanks for answering my post, sorry for the confusion, how are you doing? Answer me back here or I will come and find you!!!!
~Jade
Posted by bulldog2 on January 4, 2009, at 8:07:25
In reply to Re: What was or is your PARNATE experience? » bulldog2, posted by JadeKelly on January 3, 2009, at 21:01:25
> > > > > "You might try neurontin or lyrica in place of klonopin. In my experience neurontin is more pro-social than klonopin and has ad and anti-anxiety effects for me."
> > > >
> > > > But I'd still have to w/d from Klonopin, right? I take it for nerve pain and not sure I even need it anymore. No psych dependence at all. I like the idea of neurontin as it treats nerve pain if it turns out I did need something. It helps with sleep? Or do you have to take during day to get all benefits?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > ~Jade
> > > >
> > > >
> > > I take it during the day high dose 3600 and it stimulates me...Sometimes makes me drowsy
>
> Well no wonder your drowsy, thats twice the high dose! Jeez!
>
>
> and I take coffee to wake me up...I usually take 2 milligrams klonopin on days I don't take neurontin...On days I take neurotin I take .5 or 1 milligram and sometimes none at all(klonopin)...You can wean off klonopin while taking neurontin.....
> > > You can start at a lower dose like 600 or even 300 three times a day for an ad and anti anixety dose.
>
> Will it take care of physical w/d's from Klonopin if I just cold turkey switch?
>
>
> > > I don't take it everyday as people say you will build a tolerance to it...ive taken it as much as 6 days in a row and it worked...usually only three times a week tops....Just a nice adjunct like having a few drinks but nicer and cleaner and a little stim feeling.
>
> I remember now, you were looking for something to even out 7 days that you wouldn't get rapid tolerance to. Isnt it just an anti-siezure med? What about the Lyrica (know nothing about that one) the other days? Pretty sure your Doc doesn't know about neurontin dose??!! And would I get that result at regular dose? Won't interfere with my Parnate response?
>
> Alright then, get out your prescription pad.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > The stim effect is good in a way...It makes you feel good until the real ad effect kicks in.
> > I was thinking of trying it...But i'm 60
> with treated hypertension...So I don't know if this is to dangerous for me.
>
> Could you explain the above so I know which meds you are referring to? Also, I mentioned something I read, old, that said people above 60, or 65, don't remember, shouldn't use MAOI's. Dumb. People are so much healthier now, whatever that was I wish I hadn't mentioned it. It seems to have circulated.
>
>
> > I think nardil might be safer in terms of hypertension...It has a rep for causing weight gain...I like the parnate but would have to go low dose like 30 mg and take separate doses...
>
> If you already have a hypertension that you're being treated for, I'd think carefully before trying a MAOI. Talk to a lot of people about it first. Nardil is a weight gainer, and Parnate very stimulating, niether great candidates for someone with hypertention. If it was me, I'd find something else.
>
> But what the hell do I know?! ha!
>
> ~Jade
>
> PS- let me know when my scripts are ready, thnx
>
>Actually got neurontin from my pain doctor for nerve pain and he knows my dose..Lyrica is stronger med but has more sides including weight gain for many...cold turkey? Maybe a quicker taper than normal...three to two and hold for a week...2 to 1.5 for a week...1 for a week.. .5 for a week...though when I started neurontin I would just not take my klonopin some days and was okay..but most days i only take 1-2 mg.
Posted by Vincent_QC on January 4, 2009, at 8:59:00
In reply to Re: What was or is your PARNATE experience? » JadeKelly, posted by JadeKelly on January 3, 2009, at 22:24:06
Hi Jade,
My experience is also limited, only one month soon on Parnate.For what I read this morning on others post, especially the post of shasling, I can see that's different for everyone. We don't experience the same side-effects and the same good effects also.
My experience at 10mg was ok, but my insomnia was worse in the begining. I ask for the Seroquel-XR to sleep at the time...and I had my car accident with it... At the begining of my Parnate adventure, I feel the stimulant effect of the Parnate but nothing more, only 1 or 2 hours after my dose intake.
I increase my dose more fast than what my psychiatrist wanted, a lot more in fact, the last time I see him, he prescribe to me only 20mg/day for 1 1/2 month... I jump into the 20mg in less than 1 week. Sometimes, take all the 20mg in the same intake, sometimes one at 8AM and the other at noon.
On 20mg, I notify a more stimulant effect but no real side-effects at all, no hypertension or no orthostatic hypotension. But I was also feeling that it was not enought to work on me. No improve on all the problems I have, social phobia, panic disorder with agoraphobia, depression, general anxiety...I stay maybe 1 week at 20 and it was just ok, mean that I feel nothing really, just more tired in the afternoon and at night also. But not the usual tiredness...it's more like I just run a marathon, physical fatigue...more than mental fatigue.
I increase at 30mg, but in theory i'm not suppose to do it...
Suddenly, I don't know why but at 30mg I begin to feel a lot of orthostatic hypotension effect, follow by hypertension periods...I also notice a really small effect on my social phobia and on my insomnia at night but nothing else. I begin also to feel more and more tired in the afternoon and in the evening, the usual physical fatigue. I can say that since i'm at 30mg and more, I have less energy in the evening, I just want to sit and do nothing. I also notice a strange effect, like I don't care about the others now, and an augmentation of my panic disorder problem since my heart start to beat more fast and hard, so I have a fixation on my blood pressure and if I feel a strange sensation inside my head or inside my chest I begin to freak out...
Even with all these side effects, I increase at 40mg, the double dose i'm suppose to take now...
At 40mg, I remember the first day was really hard. I post a topic here about it... I had a terrible night experience of low blood pressure, I was not able to move or open the light or tolerate it at all, photophobia, very low blood pressure, orthostatic hypertension as well...I had this kind of high level of orthostatic hypotension for 3 days at least but thanks god, orthostatic fade away now. At the same time, I develoop a more important hypertension problem. Sometimes having my blood pressure more high than 170/80-90, reach one time the 210 limit...Take Nefipidine pill one time...
So for now, no big improve at 40mg after 1 week.
I sleep more well at night,I can return in my bed after my 20mg dose in the morning and my 2-3 cups of coffee and sleep again, I do a little bit less of social phobia and agoraphobia but that's maybe the fact that i'm too much oriented on my heart and the hypertension side-effects I experience since 1 week.
I'm not the kind of guy to go and talk to everyone anyway so I don't notice the improve a lot, but I tend to feel a more "I don't care about the others" attidude, that I didn't had before I was on 40mg of Parnate. Before, I had to take 2 hours to prepare myself to go outside the house, if I had one pimple in the face it was the end of the world, now I don't care...I take a fast shower, put the first clothes I see and that's it...
My depression level is the same, I don't feel more happy or less happy, I don't feel more sad or less sad, I don't feel like I have fun in life again or that I have more interest in what I liked before. I don't feel also that I have the necessary energy to be 100% fonctionnal, in fact, if I stay like this, I will not be able to return to the university and find a work like I want to do soon...
I tend to feel just more tired in general, except in the morning, and less tolerant to the fatigue...
I will have to talk alot to my family doctor this week about the "viability" to continue my treatment on the Parnate or jump into something new again. (Manerix, cymbalta, even if i'm not really interrested in them, if I don't try these drugs I will never know...i'm still not sure about the cymbalta cause it's an extend release and I can't take XR pills...) or maybe try one of the TCA I never try before (Nortriptyline) was the second option that my psychiatrist wanted to prescribe to me...
I wonder if no big improve in 1 month is normal for the others people who take or experienced the Parnate?
I don't feel the stimulating effect now or the kind of nice energy feeling I had at 10mg or 20mg in the morning. I have to drink my regular 2-3 cups of coffee to be fully awake but sadly after noon, my energy return to a 0 level and I feel tired all the rest of the day. In the evening, I have to kick my *ss a lot to move it and do something. I feel just like all my physical energy is drained. On others AD's like the SSRI's or SRNI's, I had extreme fatigue, but not the same kind, I was more mentally tired...
I also notice a difference on my Valium intake, I take less...10-15mg, before I was at 20mg...Maybe for another person, 5mg less of Valium by day is not a big improve, but for me it's a "feat".
For now what I say is that the side-effects are too much high for the improve I got.
Sometimes, I wonder if I really need a AD to help me with my social phobia, panic disorder with agoraphobia, depression and general anxiety. I wonder if just a CTB therapy will not help? Since I begin one CTB therapy before christmas vacation, I will see...I continue it tomorrow, it's my next appointment with my psychologist.
For bulldog2, I read your comments about Gabapentin (Neurotin) and Lyrica... I take both of them, I had great hope about Gabapentin in fact but it never work. I was planning in the begining of 2007 to withdrawh of the high dose of Rivotril I taked at the time each day and my doctor give me these in hope I will be able to reduce my dayli intake of Rivotril. I Remember that it was a pain in the *ss to take all those pills...I had also a high dose of 3600mg/day...I stop it after 2 months because I had a lot of "needles and pins" feeling all over my body. I was also a lot more nervous on it.
Lyrica was the same experience, but it's less hard to take because it's a small pill and it's one by day...I remember it for it's drowsiness..I was unable to do anything on it. I don't use it for a long time cause it fail to produce the effect it was suppose to do...
So that's it...My Parnate experience is somewhat recent so I can't see if it's worth the trail or not. Since I don't improve a lot and I have more side-effects than good efects for now, I will keep posting about it.
I also have to say that my Nardil experience back in 2007 was not more sucessfull. IT was just after my Gabapentin experience. 90mg/day of Nardil for 3 months, with an extreme low blood pressure and orthostatic hypotension that never fade away, even after 3 months, it was too much for me. All I succed to do on it was to reduce my Rivotril intake from 8mg dayli to 4mg...I was like a zombie on it, always tired, I had to drink coffee all the times, take "wake up" pills also to have more energy but at the same time my insomnia problem was getting worse...After 3 months I give up...I was a lot deseasperate because I had too much hope on it, with all what I read about it and about the fact it was the most effective single drug to use for social phobia and depression... I lost a lot of hope after this experience.
So Nardil over Parnate differences, more sedation on the Nardil, more orthostatic hypotension and hypotension, no improve on the social phobia or others problems I have...Parnate = more hypertension, more side-effects at each increasement of the dose. Strong orthostatic hypotension crisis that fade away fast after a dose increasement. A persistent physical fatigue in the afternoon and evening but help somewhat with social phobia and agoraphobia, make me less nervous about what the others person will think about me, a more "I don't care" attitude...sometimes good and sometimes bad...
So that's it...more news soon ;-) This week, doctor appointment and others news to come...
Posted by jms600 on January 4, 2009, at 13:53:20
In reply to Re: What was or is your PARNATE experience? » JadeKelly, posted by JadeKelly on January 3, 2009, at 22:24:06
Hi Jade
That's ok! Please don't be worried - I was not offended!
Yep - still having the severe panic, GAD, social anxiety etc... My p/doc is considering stopping the amitriptyline and replacing it with Effexor (while still keeping me on 600mg lithium and 40mg buspirone). I'm hoping the Effexor will do the trick as it's actually indicated for anxiety related problems, whereas amitriptyline is indicated only for depression.
I was prescribed Effexor about 5 years ago and didn't think that much of it, however, I wasn't suffering the anxiety issues that I've got now.
Talking of MAO inhibiters, I would like to try Nardil, everyone seems to hold the drug in high regard. However, I'm almost certain that my psychiatrist won't prescribe + I'm a bit concerned about the dietary restrictions.
As someone who is taking Parnate, are the dietary restrictions really that bad, e.g. do you have to avoid cheese or alcohol..?
Thanks!
jms> jms600,
>
> Hope I didn't offend you, I know you were trying to help me! I'm actually on the course I want to be on, its just that I feel I'm asking so many random questions from people who have been there. I figure these "people in the know" would appreciate answering upcoming questions once (if they feel so inclined) rather than 10X.
>
> We do have many people on Parnate right now. I am excited I should be getting close, and I already had 10 days of full remission, NOT THE STIM HIGH. Just myself back. Its gone but I know it will return, for good.
>
> Frankly, I don't want to pester people with my questions any more than I have to. But my knowledge is still very limited, and I still trust experience over most other things.
>
> Btw-Thanks for answering my post, sorry for the confusion, how are you doing? Answer me back here or I will come and find you!!!!
>
> ~Jade
Posted by JadeKelly on January 4, 2009, at 17:14:26
In reply to Re: What was or is your PARNATE experience? » JadeKelly, posted by jms600 on January 4, 2009, at 13:53:20
> Hi Jade
>
> That's ok! Please don't be worried - I was not offended!
>
> Yep - still having the severe panic, GAD, social anxiety etc... My p/doc is considering stopping the amitriptyline and replacing it with Effexor (while still keeping me on 600mg lithium and 40mg buspirone). I'm hoping the Effexor will do the trick as it's actually indicated for anxiety related problems, whereas amitriptyline is indicated only for depression.
>
> I was prescribed Effexor about 5 years ago and didn't think that much of it, however, I wasn't suffering the anxiety issues that I've got now.
>
> Talking of MAO inhibiters, I would like to try Nardil, everyone seems to hold the drug in high regard. However, I'm almost certain that my psychiatrist won't prescribe + I'm a bit concerned about the dietary restrictions.
>
> As someone who is taking Parnate, are the dietary restrictions really that bad, e.g. do you have to avoid cheese or alcohol..?
>
> Thanks!
> jms
Hey jms!Nardil I think WOULD be the one for you, if you take a MAOI. Nardil and Parnate are different in that Nardil is going to be a whole lot better for anxiety. I have a friend who really knows Nardil and alot about anxiety. Can you leave him a post? He'd be perfect for you to talk to, nice guy. (Don't let his name throw you off, he just wore out his welcome with Nardil, I think, haha) Its ParnateStarted2008, you can find him on this Parnate thread I believe. He wont care that its Nardil you want to talk about.
Stay calm and know you'll have to try a few things but something will help, unfortunatley we have to be patient (I hate that part!)
Oh, as for Klonopin? I've been taking it for years but not for anxiety. I took it for nerve pain. Any anti anxiety properties it has are wasted on me as I've grown tolerant. Don't take that stuff unless you need it, and thats fine, but if you keep taking it, or just for fun, you'll become tolerant to it and possibly all benzos. Not Sure. Ask Parnate2008 about those too, he'll know.
>
> Stay in touch, let me know if you can't get him, I'll track him down for ya!~Jade
>
> > jms600,
> >
> > Hope I didn't offend you, I know you were trying to help me! I'm actually on the course I want to be on, its just that I feel I'm asking so many random questions from people who have been there. I figure these "people in the know" would appreciate answering upcoming questions once (if they feel so inclined) rather than 10X.
> >
> > We do have many people on Parnate right now. I am excited I should be getting close, and I already had 10 days of full remission, NOT THE STIM HIGH. Just myself back. Its gone but I know it will return, for good.
> >
> > Frankly, I don't want to pester people with my questions any more than I have to. But my knowledge is still very limited, and I still trust experience over most other things.
> >
> > Btw-Thanks for answering my post, sorry for the confusion, how are you doing? Answer me back here or I will come and find you!!!!
> >
> > ~Jade
>
>
Posted by JadeKelly on January 5, 2009, at 21:31:45
In reply to Re: What was or is your PARNATE experience? » JadeKelly, posted by Phillipa on January 3, 2009, at 12:31:35
> Jade can you take lithium with parnate? Bloodwork done? Love Phillipa
Yes, some people take lithium with parnate, others take Lamictal with it. I geuss thats a decision to make with your Doc as they are not the same.
They both augment Parnate I believe to help it do its job.
~Jade
Posted by AdamCanada2 on January 6, 2009, at 9:00:37
In reply to What was or is your PARNATE experience?, posted by JadeKelly on January 2, 2009, at 18:52:13
Oh I have no problem with pdoc bashing. I have gone through several and the first I had convinced my family I was making it up because this baffoon couldn't believe that Accutane could possibly cause depression. A simple google search would reveal it has even killed a Congressman's son!
Parnate.... is one of the best medications I have tried for severe treatment resistant depression. The problem is severe insomnia and the reluctance of my current pdoc (ironically the best I have found) to prescribe me a proper sleep aid along with it.
I am at a loss for words almost at the world of so called psychiatry. When I know more about specific medications than my own pdoc there is a serious problem with how this so called pdocs are educated.
Who in their right mind would prescribe Parnate without a sleep aid??
> Hi guys,
>
> Want to get this in following previous thread, that I hope serves to educate those using Parnate and those thinking about or planning to use it. I realized how little info I was given in a 10-15 minute appt from PDoc, and how many questions that later arose. NOT PDoc bashing, just stating the obvious. If we are to get answers FOR ANY PARNATE QUESTION I hope some find it here or in the above post. MAOI users have to educate themselves. THAT would be good PDoc advice! Please, if you have an isolated horror story lets not scare people off. These drugs, I believe when used properly DO save lives.
>
> Thanks! ~Jade
Posted by JadeKelly on January 6, 2009, at 10:03:37
In reply to Parnate one of the best meds I've tried.... » JadeKelly, posted by AdamCanada2 on January 6, 2009, at 9:00:37
> Oh I have no problem with pdoc bashing. I have gone through several and the first I had convinced my family I was making it up because this baffoon couldn't believe that Accutane could possibly cause depression. A simple google search would reveal it has even killed a Congressman's son!
>
> Parnate.... is one of the best medications I have tried for severe treatment resistant depression. The problem is severe insomnia and the reluctance of my current pdoc (ironically the best I have found) to prescribe me a proper sleep aid along with it.
>
> I am at a loss for words almost at the world of so called psychiatry. When I know more about specific medications than my own pdoc there is a serious problem with how this so called pdocs are educated.
>
> Who in their right mind would prescribe Parnate without a sleep aid??
>
Hi AdamCanada,I feel your pain believe me. I think we talked before cause I recently remember saying that, its absurd to think that patients on Parnate are not going to need help for sleep problems. Your Doc just flat out said no? Did he give you a reason? Any other meds that would interfere maybe? Cause if not, I'd show him examples of every other Doc in the world prescibing them! Maybe you GP will prescribe them, although they don't like to interfere. I'll tell you what worked for me, this might sound lame but it DOES work. Buy over the counter 3mg Melatonin (or Plus for stress relief, but check with Pharmacist for contriadications). I take one at bedtime and one if I wake up. They only last 3 hours or so, so taking 2 at once won't help you stay asleep.
My PDoc didn't bother to check my BP. In retrospect, again, crazy! I wonder if anyone's does. I should be glad I geuss That I even got it but what happens when a patient comes in with unknown high BP? So how long after you took the med ACC. did you become depressed? Any ideas as to why? That really stinks. Sorry you have to deal with all that.
I have the same as you TR/MDD. Can you tell me your Parnate history? When you felt "real" A/D effects and on what dose? Has A/D been constant or transient? Do you take augment ie lithium, lamictal, etc.? Another A/D with it? How long have you been on it? I'm asking for myself, I'm trying to decide what to add or maybe increase dose, which I hate to do cause I'm at 60mg. Any info about your experience would be really great. Btw- My next stop is to see a psychopharmocolgist, I understand they really know their s*it. Maybe a good place for you if your Doc doesn't wake up.
Hope to hear from you, I'm running out of ideas! My effects at 60mg are transient at best, but had a ten day period of complete normalcy. Not that little "high" you get occasionally. So trying to figure out what caused that, and get back there!
Good luck to both of us! Sounds like you are already in transmission? Let me know! Thanks.
~Jade
Posted by JadeKelly on January 6, 2009, at 10:26:27
In reply to Re: What was or is your PARNATE experience? » JadeKelly, posted by Vincent_QC on January 4, 2009, at 8:59:00
Hi Vincent,
One thing I can say about Parnate, at least for me, the higher the dose, and/or the longer on it, the lower the side effects. Especially with BP. I still have some insomnia, however, if I'm serious about going to sleep at a certain time, I can do it. I just take melatonin (+ klonopin sometimes) and its not a problem. I do feel only 3/4 asleep part of the night, but I think thats fading also.
Give me an update when anything changes, I doubt you should expect any A/D effects at 40mg. Especially with your Nardil experience. Don't know if you should go slow with dose increases, or move along every 2 weeks. Ask Your Doc. Maybe with your experience with Nardil, you'll have to stay at each dose for a while. I'd look into best augments too, I think they can make the difference. I'm doing that now, so I'll let you know!
~Jade
Posted by SLS on January 6, 2009, at 10:26:57
In reply to Parnate one of the best meds I've tried.... » JadeKelly, posted by AdamCanada2 on January 6, 2009, at 9:00:37
For what it is worth, quite a bit of time was spent looking at MAOIs during a continuing education symposium that my doctor attended. He was happy to see this.
- Scott
Posted by JadeKelly on January 6, 2009, at 11:12:41
In reply to Re: Parnate one of the best meds I've tried...., posted by SLS on January 6, 2009, at 10:26:57
> For what it is worth, quite a bit of time was spent looking at MAOIs during a continuing education symposium that my doctor attended. He was happy to see this.
>
>
> - ScottThats cool. The thread or the post? He's quick if it was Adam's post! Also, I'm pretty sure you've seen it but I was on Johns Hopkin's Psych site, looking into Pharmocology, did you see the article by that Executive that ended up at John's Hopkins? "Money was no object", they put him on Parnate. Thats what put him into remission. He was depressive/bi-polar so I'm sure there's a cocktail. Let me know if you havent seen it. I'm curious as to dose, etc. It didn't say.
~Jade
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.