![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 28 to 52 of 62. Go back in thread:
Posted by Zyprexa on September 8, 2008, at 0:32:39
In reply to Re: Glycine not As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by ILADVOCATE on September 8, 2008, at 0:07:03
I have diabetes from zyprexa, I take Metformin for it. Weight is not much of a problem, cholesterol is fine. There is no way I would go off the zyprexa, its the best med I ever took!
Abilify gave me low blood sugars. I had to eat and eat to keep my sugar high enough.
Posted by ILADVOCATE on September 8, 2008, at 0:55:12
In reply to Re: Glycine Antipsychotic, posted by Zyprexa on September 8, 2008, at 0:14:21
> I find that taking Glycine is calming and stops worrying. Its not activating. I take it one heaping teaspon at a time with water or coffee, also take it every 2-3 hours as the half life is 2 hours. Often taking it about 4 times a day. I don't find it very effective, just mildly.
>
> The best place I've found to buy it is LuckyVitamin.com, Now foods, one pound, $9. Its also called L-glycine. As my doctor told me its ok if it has the "L" in front of it. Other than that I don't know why.
>
> I did reaseach on it and found that it affects the Canabinoid recepters in the brain. The same thing that the good portion of POT affects. The part that is antipsychotic. The THC part though is psychotic.
>
> I did notice that it made me a little forgetfull when I started it.So in other words you find it has a short half life too? The same as I found. That's important because the official study gives it once a day.
Probably better to take it directly with water not coffee as it can be mixed into water and then taken in pure form. Anything else might make it work less. And caffeine underminds psychiatric medications of many kinds. Something to think about. I don't believe it affects THC receptors. The glutamate antagonists are officially called the NMDA receptor modulators. They work on a different area of the brain. Look at the link to Dr. Javitt's study for more information. That should tell you. I did summarize it for Wikipedia but that's in brief. And yes the glutamate antagonists are being studied for anxiety too so to get an anti-anxiety effect is not surprising.
Posted by ILADVOCATE on September 8, 2008, at 0:59:07
In reply to Re: Glycine not As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by Zyprexa on September 8, 2008, at 0:32:39
> I have diabetes from zyprexa, I take Metformin for it. Weight is not much of a problem, cholesterol is fine. There is no way I would go off the zyprexa, its the best med I ever took!
>
> Abilify gave me low blood sugars. I had to eat and eat to keep my sugar high enough.
I would never go against an informed consumers decision but just be careful as many people on Zyprexa did develop insulin dependent diabetes. And it has a strong mood stabilization effect so it was used much until it was found that the drug company Eli Lilly gave fraudelent results to psychiatrists about the high rate of diabetes that it could create. Now many psychiatrists are not using it as much. However, it has been shown to highly effective. Just be careful with your diet and blood sugar.
Posted by desolationrower on September 8, 2008, at 1:24:45
In reply to Re: Glycine not As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by ILADVOCATE on September 8, 2008, at 0:59:07
BTW, glycine is not a glutamate antagonist, it is a co-agonist.
-D/R
Posted by ILADVOCATE on September 8, 2008, at 1:49:16
In reply to Re: Glycine not As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by desolationrower on September 8, 2008, at 1:24:45
> BTW, glycine is not a glutamate antagonist, it is a co-agonist.
> -D/R
Yes I try to keep the terminology accurate. My psychiatrist had stated to refer to them as "NMDA receptor modulators". I just wasn't sure people would understand that term but that is the correct one. Thanks for letting me know.
Posted by Jamie R on September 8, 2008, at 5:32:57
In reply to Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by ILADVOCATE on September 6, 2008, at 13:59:22
Grape seed extract is a good co-agonist to glycine.
Posted by ILADVOCATE on September 8, 2008, at 5:44:13
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by Jamie R on September 8, 2008, at 5:32:57
> Grape seed extract is a good co-agonist to glycine.
I'd need more information on that and why.
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 8, 2008, at 7:40:48
In reply to Re: Glycine Antipsychotic, posted by Zyprexa on September 8, 2008, at 0:14:21
> The best place I've found to buy it is LuckyVitamin.com, Now foods, one pound, $9. Its also called L-glycine. As my doctor told me its ok if it has the "L" in front of it. Other than that I don't know why.
Glycine is unique among the amino acids in its not being chiral. Therefore, the D-/L- designation is not applied to it. Glycine is officially just glycine. For all the other amino acids, the L- enantiomer is the natural one.
Lar
Posted by Zyprexa on September 8, 2008, at 16:52:40
In reply to Re: Glycine Antipsychotic, posted by ILADVOCATE on September 8, 2008, at 0:55:12
I didn't say it affected THC, I said it affects cannibanoid recepters. I also find it workes better with coffee.
Posted by Zyprexa on September 8, 2008, at 16:55:40
In reply to Re: Glycine not As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by ILADVOCATE on September 8, 2008, at 0:59:07
I've noticed that zyprexa dose size is the determining factor as how much the blood suger is going up. My blood sure results have not gotten worse over the years. And if I stop the zyprexa, blood suger is normal again.
Posted by Zyprexa on September 8, 2008, at 16:58:54
In reply to Re: Glycine Antipsychotic » Zyprexa, posted by Larry Hoover on September 8, 2008, at 7:40:48
What does the "L" mean? Is L-Glycine the same as Glycine? Or does L mean Natural?/Organic?
Posted by ILADVOCATE on September 8, 2008, at 17:19:59
In reply to Re: Glycine Antipsychotic » Larry Hoover, posted by Zyprexa on September 8, 2008, at 16:58:54
> What does the "L" mean? Is L-Glycine the same as Glycine? Or does L mean Natural?/Organic?
Its part of the full name of the amino acid. Any pure form of glycine such as:
http://www.vitalnutrients.net/vnestore/detail.asp?product_id=VNGLY
Which I take is fine.
Posted by ILADVOCATE on September 8, 2008, at 17:25:27
In reply to Re: Glycine not As a Primary Antipsychotic » ILADVOCATE, posted by Zyprexa on September 8, 2008, at 16:55:40
> I've noticed that zyprexa dose size is the determining factor as how much the blood suger is going up. My blood sure results have not gotten worse over the years. And if I stop the zyprexa, blood suger is normal again.
Well then it hasn't worsened into type 2 diabetes. But that doesn't mean it couldn't and Zyprexa is the clinically proven worst offender for that. You are right to stay on what is working for you but keep updating with what is coming out. There are a couple that might be out soon. They are the standard dopamine based ones but they are related to Abilify and would have less of a risk than Zyprexa. Either way its good to keep updated. Check this link and bookmark it as it updates itself:
http://www.psychmeds123.info/
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 8, 2008, at 17:32:38
In reply to Re: Glycine Antipsychotic » Larry Hoover, posted by Zyprexa on September 8, 2008, at 16:58:54
> What does the "L" mean? Is L-Glycine the same as Glycine? Or does L mean Natural?/Organic?
The L stands for levo (left), whereas D stands for dextro (right). They describe the twisting of light by crystals of the pure substance. I know that doesn't mean much to anyone but a chemist.....
There is no L-glycine. It's all just glycine. And it doesn't twist light passing through its crystals.
Some molecules have structures that differ in "handedness", like matching right and left gloves. One example from among the amino acids is phenylalanine. You can buy DLPA (D-,L-phenylalanine) which is a mixture of the two structures. It's all phenylalanine, but half is left-twisting, and half is right-twisting. You can tell it's man-made, because it is such a mixture.
In nature, virtually without exception, only the L-twisting amino acids exist, because the twisting matters to protein structure. So, natural source phenylalanine would be pure L-phenylalanine. However, the converse is not necessarily true; pure L-phenylalanine can be man-made.
Lar
Posted by bleauberry on September 8, 2008, at 21:47:17
In reply to Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by ILADVOCATE on September 6, 2008, at 13:59:22
Jereon needs to read this thread.
My psych doc also spoke very highly of glycine for psychotic symptoms and anxiety symptoms.
Posted by ILADVOCATE on September 8, 2008, at 21:53:04
In reply to Re: Glycine as Antipsychotic - JEREON !!!!!, posted by bleauberry on September 8, 2008, at 21:47:17
> Jereon needs to read this thread.
>
> My psych doc also spoke very highly of glycine for psychotic symptoms and anxiety symptoms.
Then he must be well informed. Is he a psychopharmocologist? Where did he get this information from? I thought mine was the only one using it outside of study? I'd be interested to know.
Posted by bleauberry on September 9, 2008, at 18:02:04
In reply to Re: Glycine as Antipsychotic - JEREON !!!!!, posted by ILADVOCATE on September 8, 2008, at 21:53:04
> > My psych doc also spoke very highly of glycine for psychotic symptoms and anxiety symptoms.
> Then he must be well informed. Is he a psychopharmocologist? Where did he get this information from? I thought mine was the only one using it outside of study? I'd be interested to know.
>Actually no, not a psychopharmacologist. A regular MD with an additional license in Naturopathy, specializing in environmental toxicity. He warns right up front he is not a psychiatrist and prefers to use medications only after efforts have been made at allowing the body to naturally heal itself. Which is where Glycine comes into play. Glycine is a common supplement with doctors trained in naturopathy. It is a common amino acid in our bodies, but some people just need more of it than their bodies create. Glycine is inhibitory, a cousin of GABA and serotonin.
Also, I saw a Nurse Practioner with a license in Psychiatry a couple years ago. She also liked to try natural things first. At the time, anxiety was killing me. She said to try a combination of GABA and Glycine. GABA was weird. Sometimes it felt calming, sometimes depressing, and sometimes activating. It was unpredictable. But glycine was immediate calming every time. It just stopped all the racing stuff in its tracks. A little too much actually. For being a natural substance our bodies create, it can be powerful stuff. I can easily see how it would be good for psychosis, delusions, anxiety, restlessness, or akathisia, but I cannot see how it would be much good for negative symptoms.
Anyway, glycine is nothing new among doctors who have additional training in natural healing strategies. It has other uses besides just psychiatry. In the psychopharmacologist field however, I can see how they view it as some new discovery. They are so shielded in their isolated worlds of clinical studies, pharmaceutic rep seminars, and scientific books, that they are quite novice at basic biological functions involving things like glycine, magnesium, cortisol, and such.
I am very excited glycine is helping you. Actually, when I first read your post I just said "AWESOME!". The medical world I think sometimes makes things seem more difficult than they actually are. I mean, who would have ever thought, that stupid bottle of $10 Glycine at the health food store would do what $300 megapower antipsychotics couldn't?
Posted by iladvocate on September 9, 2008, at 21:36:07
In reply to Re: Glycine as Antipsychotic - » ILADVOCATE, posted by bleauberry on September 9, 2008, at 18:02:04
> > > My psych doc also spoke very highly of glycine for psychotic symptoms and anxiety symptoms.
> > Then he must be well informed. Is he a psychopharmocologist? Where did he get this information from? I thought mine was the only one using it outside of study? I'd be interested to know.
> >
>
> Actually no, not a psychopharmacologist. A regular MD with an additional license in Naturopathy, specializing in environmental toxicity. He warns right up front he is not a psychiatrist and prefers to use medications only after efforts have been made at allowing the body to naturally heal itself. Which is where Glycine comes into play. Glycine is a common supplement with doctors trained in naturopathy. It is a common amino acid in our bodies, but some people just need more of it than their bodies create. Glycine is inhibitory, a cousin of GABA and serotonin.
>
> Also, I saw a Nurse Practioner with a license in Psychiatry a couple years ago. She also liked to try natural things first. At the time, anxiety was killing me. She said to try a combination of GABA and Glycine. GABA was weird. Sometimes it felt calming, sometimes depressing, and sometimes activating. It was unpredictable. But glycine was immediate calming every time. It just stopped all the racing stuff in its tracks. A little too much actually. For being a natural substance our bodies create, it can be powerful stuff. I can easily see how it would be good for psychosis, delusions, anxiety, restlessness, or akathisia, but I cannot see how it would be much good for negative symptoms.
>
> Anyway, glycine is nothing new among doctors who have additional training in natural healing strategies. It has other uses besides just psychiatry. In the psychopharmacologist field however, I can see how they view it as some new discovery. They are so shielded in their isolated worlds of clinical studies, pharmaceutic rep seminars, and scientific books, that they are quite novice at basic biological functions involving things like glycine, magnesium, cortisol, and such.
>
> I am very excited glycine is helping you. Actually, when I first read your post I just said "AWESOME!". The medical world I think sometimes makes things seem more difficult than they actually are. I mean, who would have ever thought, that stupid bottle of $10 Glycine at the health food store would do what $300 megapower antipsychotics couldn't?
>
>
>I agree but psychiatry is onto this one. Glycine or certainly one of the glutamate antagonists will be the next generation of antipsychotics and the more recoveries I can identify the more they will take this seriously about fast tracking this class of medications through study. I cannot post my psychopharmocologist's name here obviously nor do I feel comfortable posting the name of the non profit I am board president of. But my psychiatrist allowed me to write a letter from my non profit to the director of the American Psychiatric Association mentioning his name and phone number and encouraging her to call him. I've been online everywhere to spread the word but they are finding out and once they get this class of medications out I'm sure they will replace all the dopamine based antipsychotics they have now. Science has finally caught up with us.
Posted by mike1975 on September 10, 2008, at 21:12:11
In reply to Re: Glycine as Antipsychotic -, posted by iladvocate on September 9, 2008, at 21:36:07
hi iladvocate,
First sorry for my English. It's not my first language.
I wanted to ask you how fast glycine started to work and at what dosage. I tried it before and it did nothing for me. I usually get at least portial response from supplements.
To everyone, did you guys had any luck with grapeseed extract?
Thank you very much
Mike
Posted by ILADVOCATE on September 10, 2008, at 22:56:33
In reply to Re: Glycine as Antipsychotic - » iladvocate, posted by mike1975 on September 10, 2008, at 21:12:11
> hi iladvocate,
>
> First sorry for my English. It's not my first language.
>
> I wanted to ask you how fast glycine started to work and at what dosage. I tried it before and it did nothing for me. I usually get at least portial response from supplements.
>
> To everyone, did you guys had any luck with grapeseed extract?
>
> Thank you very much
>
> MikeIt took several months to build up to 20 grams which is a starting dosage. It varied upwards after that to 26 grams which is a bit too much for me and now its at 24 grams but in studies it went up to 40 grams. I then was allowed to titrate off the Risperdal completely but slowly. I don't know much about grapeseed extract though I'm on some natural remedies (rhodiola, saw palmetto) but as I said to someone else glycine is not just a "supplement". Its an antipsychotic in Phase II FDA and should be taken under a psychiatrist's care. If someone is taking it by themselves already its probably not a good idea but that is their choice. I just want to make sure anyone who reads this checks with their psychiatrist first and the more recoveries I can identify and bring to the light the more psychiatrists will want to use it.
Posted by dade on September 11, 2008, at 1:37:21
In reply to Re: Glycine as Antipsychotic -, posted by ILADVOCATE on September 10, 2008, at 22:56:33
> It took several months to build up to 20 grams which is a starting dosage. It varied upwards after that to 26 grams which is a bit too much for me and now its at 24 grams but in studies it went up to 40 grams. I then was allowed to titrate off the Risperdal completely but slowly. I don't know much about grapeseed extract though I'm on some natural remedies (rhodiola, saw palmetto) but as I said to someone else glycine is not just a "supplement". Its an antipsychotic in Phase II FDA and should be taken under a psychiatrist's care. If someone is taking it by themselves already its probably not a good idea but that is their choice. I just want to make sure anyone who reads this checks with their psychiatrist first and the more recoveries I can identify and bring to the light the more psychiatrists will want to use it.
But i thought it WAS a supplement available at healthfood stores? maybe the dosage is what designates it as a drug? it is THE same Glycine you get from your health food store?
And is it usefull for Manic states, mood issues? dose?
Thanks
Thanks
Posted by ILADVOCATE on September 11, 2008, at 2:16:42
In reply to Re: Glycine as Antipsychotic - » ILADVOCATE, posted by dade on September 11, 2008, at 1:37:21
> > It took several months to build up to 20 grams which is a starting dosage. It varied upwards after that to 26 grams which is a bit too much for me and now its at 24 grams but in studies it went up to 40 grams. I then was allowed to titrate off the Risperdal completely but slowly. I don't know much about grapeseed extract though I'm on some natural remedies (rhodiola, saw palmetto) but as I said to someone else glycine is not just a "supplement". Its an antipsychotic in Phase II FDA and should be taken under a psychiatrist's care. If someone is taking it by themselves already its probably not a good idea but that is their choice. I just want to make sure anyone who reads this checks with their psychiatrist first and the more recoveries I can identify and bring to the light the more psychiatrists will want to use it.
>
> But i thought it WAS a supplement available at healthfood stores? maybe the dosage is what designates it as a drug? it is THE same Glycine you get from your health food store?
>
> And is it usefull for Manic states, mood issues? dose?
>
> Thanks
>
> ThanksThe pills you get at health food stores are useless. You have to order the pure powdered form the company but that's very useful and anyone can order it. It just needs to be taken under a psychiatrist's care. Its an unregulated "supplement" but when properly used its an antipsychotic. Like most antipsychotics it has some effect on mania but is not a full mood stabilizer. And although it can help with mania in doing that without a mood stabilizer if one has schizoaffective, such as with me, it worsened depression so like current antipsychotics, if you have schizoaffective it will stil require a mood stabilizer.
Posted by Jeroen on September 15, 2008, at 12:28:45
In reply to Re: Glycine as Antipsychotic - JEREON !!!!!, posted by ILADVOCATE on September 8, 2008, at 21:53:04
hi thanks, i just read it, im about to give lithium a try first,
do you feel great with glycine
Posted by iladvocate on September 15, 2008, at 12:49:47
In reply to Re: Glycine as Antipsychotic - JEREON !!!!!, posted by Jeroen on September 15, 2008, at 12:28:45
> hi thanks, i just read it, im about to give lithium a try first,
>
>
> do you feel great with glycineIt depends on what it is for. Glycine is for use as an antipsychotic. Lithium is a mood stabilizer. Glycine would not be used for bipolar disorder unless the person had bipolar with psychotic features. Lithium is still used as a mood stabilizer but has a lot of severe side effects including cognitive confusion, severe weight gain and sedation. Also there are monthly required bloodtests. Many psychiatrists will not use Lithium for after 10 years because the potential of long term kidney damage leading to kidney failure which has happenned to 5 people I know. Many psychiatrists prefer to start a person with Lamictal which except for the 1 in a thousand potential of a rare rash is effective and much safer. If you want to know more about Lamictal as an alternative or the long term side effects of Lithium or what are the reccommended mood stabilizers start or join a thread about that. Glycine has proven effective enough in recovery as an antipsychotic that my psychopharmocologist stated to the director of a major psychiatric hospital that my recovery on glycine was "as good as or better than any FDA approved medication as an antipsychotic". I provided testimony at a major psychiatric hospital, the first to research Clozaril in the United States and they are researching glutamate antagonists at that hospital and my case study will be written up in a psychiatric journal. So far they have not been studied as mood stabilizers though.
Posted by mike1975 on September 21, 2008, at 15:29:14
In reply to Re: Glycine as Antipsychotic - JEREON !!!!!, posted by iladvocate on September 15, 2008, at 12:49:47
hi everyone,
It seems that the latest study found glycine ineffective:
The Cognitive and Negative Symptoms in Schizophrenia Trial (CONSIST): the efficacy of glutamatergic agents for negative symptoms and cognitive impairments.
Buchanan RW, Javitt DC, Marder SR, Schooler NR, Gold JM, McMahon RP, Heresco-Levy U, Carpenter WT.
Maryland Psychiatric Research Center, University of Maryland School of Medicine, Baltimore, MD 21228, USA.
OBJECTIVE: Patients with schizophrenia frequently present with negative symptoms and cognitive impairments for which no effective treatments are known. Agents that act at the glycine site of the N-methyl-D-aspartic acid (NMDA) glutamatergic receptor have been suggested as promising treatments for moderate to severe negative symptoms and cognitive impairments. METHOD: The Cognitive and Negative Symptoms in Schizophrenia Trial (CONSIST) was a 16-week double-blind, double-dummy, parallel group, randomized clinical trial of adjunctive glycine, D-cycloserine, or placebo conducted at four sites in the United States and one site in Israel. The participants were 157 inpatients and outpatients who met DSM-IV criteria for schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder and retrospective and prospective criteria for moderate to severe negative symptoms without marked positive, depressive, or extrapyramidal symptoms. The primary outcome measures were the average "rate of change" of Scale for the Assessment of Negative Symptoms (SANS) total scores and change in the average cognitive domain z scores. RESULTS: There were no significant differences in change in the SANS total score between glycine and placebo subjects or D-cycloserine and placebo subjects. A prespecified test for the site-by-treatment-by-time interaction was significant in post hoc tests. One site had greater reduction in the SANS total score for patients receiving D-cycloserine relative to patients receiving placebo. A second site had greater reduction in the SANS total score for placebo patients compared with glycine patients. There were no significant differences between glycine and placebo or D-cycloserine and placebo subjects on the average cognition z score. CONCLUSIONS: The study results suggest that neither glycine nor D-cycloserine is a generally effective therapeutic option for treating negative symptoms or cognitive impairments.
Any thoughts?
Take care
Mike
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.