![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3 to 27 of 62. Go back in thread:
Posted by ILADVOCATE on September 6, 2008, at 17:55:07
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by JDx on September 6, 2008, at 17:33:48
> > I am on glycine, 24 grams under the care of a psychopharmcologist and have obtained a full recovery. It is a new generation of antipsychotics in study, the glutamate antagonists. My psychiatrist is seeking to publish the results in a psychiatric journal. Glycine is available over the shelves but should only be taken under a psychiatrist's care. This generation of antipsychotics cannot cause tardive dyskinesia,which I have from the previous antipsychotics in severe forms including tardive psychosis which is also is study, weight gain, diabetes or extra pyramidal side effects and does not cause cognitive blunting but is actually helpful on cognitive and negative symptoms of schizophrenia. The only antipsychotic currently available that cannot cause tardive dyskinesia, which can be masked as it is occuring, is Clozaril and I could not tolerate its severe side effects. The current studies use glycine as an adjunct but my psychiatrist has obtained favorable results as a primary antipsychotic. This is part of a new generation of antipsychotics in study that have shown extremely favorable results and will eventually replace the current medications. There is a symposium on new medications in development that anyone reading this should consider attending to find out about new antipsychotics that are being studied:
> > http://www.narsad.org/help/campaign/publicannouncement.html
>
> I am on 60 grams of Glycine for half a year. I am daignosed with simple Schiophrenia (only negative simptoms).
> I can say that for me Glycine doesn't improve negative simptoms at all, and it is only improve memory and attention .Clearly the studies have to go forward and of course not everyone will benefit as much as I did. There are other glutamate antagonists in study as well that are being used as primary antipsychotics (one by Eli Lilly will hit Phase III next year) unlike glycine which in official studies is only used as an adjunct. As well there are other classes of antipsychotics in development besides glutamate antagonists. Its good to hear of other people's experiences but I do hope that research pans out as regarding medications that will replace the current dopaminergic (standard) antipsychotics because of their severe long term side effects. The only thing that I found that was not done in the study was that I had to titrate the dose of glycine to every few hours because when I took it all at once I just felt sick and then it would wear off and I'd get psychotic. Plus its activating and it would keep me up at night. Again this is still a study and they have to finalize what is going on.
Posted by Quintal on September 6, 2008, at 18:30:17
In reply to Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by ILADVOCATE on September 6, 2008, at 13:59:22
Thanks for posting this. I'm pleased to hear there are alternatives to dopamine antagonists being studied. I don't think my doctor would take this seriously, but I might get some if it is available in health stores. The doses being used here are much higher than when it's taken as a supplement so I see the need for medical supervision. Do you have any side effects?
Q
Posted by Phillipa on September 6, 2008, at 19:20:31
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic » ILADVOCATE, posted by Quintal on September 6, 2008, at 18:30:17
Sounds dangerous to me as compared to ketamine and pcp per wiki. Phillipa
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
For the plant, see Glycine (plant).
Glycine
Systematic (IUPAC) name
aminoethanoic acid
Identifiers
CAS number 56-40-6
PubChem 750
Chemical data
Formula C2H5NO2
Molar mass 75.07 g/mol
SMILES NCC(O)=O
Complete data
Glycine (abbreviated as Gly or G)[1] is the organic compound with the formula NH2CH2COOH. It is the smallest of the 20 amino acids commonly found in proteins, coded by codons GGU, GGC, GGA and GGG. Because it has specialized structural properties in protein architecture, this compact amino acid is often evolutionarily conserved. For example, cytochrome c, myoglobin, and hemoglobin all contain conserved glycines.[citation needed] Glycine is unique among the proteinogenic amino acids in that is not chiral. Most proteins contain only small quantities of glycine. A notable exception is collagen, which contains about 35% glycine.[2] In its solid, i.e., crystallized, form, glycine is a free-flowing, sweet-tasting crystalline material.Contents [hide]
1 Production
2 Biosynthesis
3 Degradation
4 Physiological function
4.1 As a biosynthetic intermediate
4.2 As a neurotransmitter
4.3 As A Potential Antipsychotic
5 Industrial Uses
6 Antidumping tariffs
7 Presence in the interstellar medium
8 References
9 External links
[edit] Production
Glycine is manufactured industrially, either by treating chloroacetic acid with ammonia:ClCH2COOH + NH3 → H2NCH2COOH + HCl
or via the Strecker amino acid synthesis.There are two producers of glycine in the United States. Chattem Chemicals, Inc. and GEO Specialty Chemicals, Inc., who purchased the glycine production facilities of Hampshire Chemical Corp.[3] [4]
[edit] Biosynthesis
Glycine is not essential to the human diet, since it is biosynthesized in the body from the amino acid serine, which is in turn derived from 3-phosphoglycerate. In most organisms, the enzyme Serine hydroxymethyltransferase catalyses this transformation by removing one carbon atom; pyridoxal phosphate is also necessary:[5]Serine + tetrahydrofolate → Glycine + N5,N10-Methylene tetrahydrofolate + H2O
In the liver of vertebrates, glycine synthesis is catalyzed by glycine synthase (also called glycine cleavage enzyme). This conversion is readily reversible:[5]CO2 + NH4+ + N5,N10-Methylene tetrahydrofolate + NADH + H+ → Glycine + tetrahydrofolate + NAD+
[edit] Degradation
Glycine is degraded via three pathways. The predominant pathway in animals involves the catalysis of glycine cleavage enzyme, the same enzyme also involved in the biosynthesis of glycine. The degradation pathway is the reverse of this synthetic pathway:[6]Glycine + tetrahydrofolate + NAD+ → CO2 + NH4+ + N5,N10-Methylene tetrahydrofolate + NADH + H+
In the second pathway, glycine is degraded in two steps. The first step is the reverse of glycine biosynthesis from serine with serine hydroxymethyl transferase. Serine is then converted to pyruvate by serine dehydratase.[6]In the third pathway of glycine degradation, glycine is converted to glyoxylate by D-amino acid oxidase. Glycoxylate is then oxidized by hepatic lactate dehydrogenase to oxalate in an NAD+-dependent reaction.[6]
[edit] Physiological function[edit] As a biosynthetic intermediate
Glycine is a building block to numerous natural products. In higher eukaryotes, D-Aminolevulinic acid, the key precursor to porphyrins, is biosynthesized from glycine and succinyl-CoA. Glycine provides the central C2N subunit of all purines.[7]
[edit] As a neurotransmitter
Glycine is an inhibitory neurotransmitter in the central nervous system, especially in the spinal cord, brainstem, and retina. When glycine receptors are activated, chloride enters the neuron via ionotropic receptors, causing an Inhibitory postsynaptic potential (IPSP). Strychnine is a strong antagonist at ionotropic glycine receptors, whereas bicuculline is a weak one. Glycine is a required co-agonist along with glutamate for NMDA receptors. In contrast to the inhibitory role of glycine in the spinal cord, this behaviour is facilitated at the (NMDA) glutaminergic receptors which are excitatory. The LD50 of glycine is 7930 mg/kg in rats (oral),[8] and it usually causes death by hyperexcitability.
[edit] As A Potential Antipsychotic
Dr. Daniel Javitt a clinical researcher had studied people who were addicted to PCP (angel dust) and Ketamine (PCP) (Javitt, DC, Negative Schizophrenic Symptomatology and the Phencyclydine (PCP) Model of Schizophrenia, Hillside Journal of Psychiatry 1987 9:12-35. Their brains had been damaged by the use of this drug. In studies, it was found that their glutamate receptors had been damaged. Since, use of PCP and ketamine creates psychosis similar to schizophrenia, it was hypothetisized that giving glycine to people with schizophrenia would potentially reduce their psychotic symptoms. In a controlled study people with schizophrenia who were given glycine had their symptoms reduced in a measurable sense, primarily in the area of negative and cognitive symptoms when used as an adjunct to current antipscyhotics. There have been some psychiatrists who have used it out of study as a primary antipsychotic with benefits on positive as well as negative and cognitive symptoms. Glycine's primary drawback is its required use in powdered format. However, as an NMDA receptor modulator, it is part of a class of antipsychotics in study that do not cause tardive dyskinesia or diabetes, the current long term side effects of dopaminergic antipsychotics as well as not creating extra pyramdial side effects (movement disorders), weight gain or sedation. These medications along with other new classes of medications in study may eventually replace the current antipsychotics which from Thorazine to Abilify have all been based on the dopamine hypothesis and in depleting the levels of dopamine create tardive dykinesia and other Parkinsonian movement disorders and potentially tardive psychosis which is still in study. Glycine, is part of a promising new class of treatment for schizophrenia that may promote a full recovery without debilitating physical side effects.
[edit] Industrial Uses
Glycine is used as a sweetener/taste enhancer, buffering agent, reabsorbable amino acid, chemical intermediate, metal complexing agent, and dietary supplement as well as in certain pharmaceuticals. [9]
[edit] Antidumping tariffs
Glycine imported from China to the United States has been subject to antidumping duties since March, 1995. [10]In 2007, a United States manufacturer of Glycine, GEO Specialty Chemicals, Inc. filed petitions requesting that antidumping duties also be imposed on Glycine imported from Japan, the Republic of Korea, and India. On September 7, 2007 the Department of Commerce announced its affirmative preliminary determinations in the antidumping duty investigations on imports of glycine from Japan and the Republic of Korea (Korea). On October 29, 2007 the Department of Commerce announced its affirmative preliminary determination in the antidumping duty investigation on imports of glycine from India.
[edit] Presence in the interstellar medium
In 1994 a team of astronomers at the University of Illinois, led by Lewis Snyder, claimed that they had found the glycine molecule in space. It turned out that, with further analysis, this claim could not be confirmed. Nine years later, in 2003, Yi-Jehng Kuan from National Taiwan Normal University and Steve Charnley claimed that they detected interstellar glycine toward three sources in the interstellar medium.[11] They claimed to have identified 27 spectral lines of glycine utilizing a radio telescope. According to computer simulations and lab-based experiments, glycine was probably formed when ices containing simple organic molecules were exposed to ultraviolet light.[12]In October 2004, Snyder and collaborators reinvestigated the glycine claim in Kuan et al. (2003). In a rigorous attempt to confirm the detection, Snyder showed that glycine was not detected in any of the three claimed sources.[13]
Should the glycine claim be substantiated, the finding would not prove that life exists outside the Earth, but certainly makes that possibility more plausible by showing that amino acids can be formed in the interstellar medium.
Posted by ILADVOCATE on September 6, 2008, at 19:35:29
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by Phillipa on September 6, 2008, at 19:20:31
I did that entry myself from the study. You misunderstand. Ketamine and pcp are extremely dangerous illegal drugs that deplete glutamate receptors from the brain. The reason those illegal drugs were mentioned were because the brain damage from those drugs produced psychosis similar to schizophrenia. Both people with brain damage from PCP/Ketamine and schizophrenia had their psychosis reserved by glycine. This is in the same manner that psychosis from LSD can be counteracted with Thorazine. Glycine works in the opposite manner as pcp and ketamine and restores glutamate transmission to the brain while those two dangerous drugs destroy it. I summarized the Wikipedia entry from a highly clinical source. I'm sorry if anyone was confused by it.
> Sounds dangerous to me as compared to ketamine and pcp per wiki. Phillipa
>
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Jump to: navigation, search
> For the plant, see Glycine (plant).
>
>
> Glycine
>
> Systematic (IUPAC) name
> aminoethanoic acid
> Identifiers
> CAS number 56-40-6
> PubChem 750
> Chemical data
> Formula C2H5NO2
> Molar mass 75.07 g/mol
> SMILES NCC(O)=O
> Complete data
> Glycine (abbreviated as Gly or G)[1] is the organic compound with the formula NH2CH2COOH. It is the smallest of the 20 amino acids commonly found in proteins, coded by codons GGU, GGC, GGA and GGG. Because it has specialized structural properties in protein architecture, this compact amino acid is often evolutionarily conserved. For example, cytochrome c, myoglobin, and hemoglobin all contain conserved glycines.[citation needed] Glycine is unique among the proteinogenic amino acids in that is not chiral. Most proteins contain only small quantities of glycine. A notable exception is collagen, which contains about 35% glycine.[2] In its solid, i.e., crystallized, form, glycine is a free-flowing, sweet-tasting crystalline material.
>
> Contents [hide]
> 1 Production
> 2 Biosynthesis
> 3 Degradation
> 4 Physiological function
> 4.1 As a biosynthetic intermediate
> 4.2 As a neurotransmitter
> 4.3 As A Potential Antipsychotic
> 5 Industrial Uses
> 6 Antidumping tariffs
> 7 Presence in the interstellar medium
> 8 References
> 9 External links
>
>
>
> [edit] Production
> Glycine is manufactured industrially, either by treating chloroacetic acid with ammonia:
>
> ClCH2COOH + NH3 → H2NCH2COOH + HCl
> or via the Strecker amino acid synthesis.
>
> There are two producers of glycine in the United States. Chattem Chemicals, Inc. and GEO Specialty Chemicals, Inc., who purchased the glycine production facilities of Hampshire Chemical Corp.[3] [4]
>
>
> [edit] Biosynthesis
> Glycine is not essential to the human diet, since it is biosynthesized in the body from the amino acid serine, which is in turn derived from 3-phosphoglycerate. In most organisms, the enzyme Serine hydroxymethyltransferase catalyses this transformation by removing one carbon atom; pyridoxal phosphate is also necessary:[5]
>
> Serine + tetrahydrofolate → Glycine + N5,N10-Methylene tetrahydrofolate + H2O
> In the liver of vertebrates, glycine synthesis is catalyzed by glycine synthase (also called glycine cleavage enzyme). This conversion is readily reversible:[5]
>
> CO2 + NH4+ + N5,N10-Methylene tetrahydrofolate + NADH + H+ → Glycine + tetrahydrofolate + NAD+
>
> [edit] Degradation
> Glycine is degraded via three pathways. The predominant pathway in animals involves the catalysis of glycine cleavage enzyme, the same enzyme also involved in the biosynthesis of glycine. The degradation pathway is the reverse of this synthetic pathway:[6]
>
> Glycine + tetrahydrofolate + NAD+ → CO2 + NH4+ + N5,N10-Methylene tetrahydrofolate + NADH + H+
> In the second pathway, glycine is degraded in two steps. The first step is the reverse of glycine biosynthesis from serine with serine hydroxymethyl transferase. Serine is then converted to pyruvate by serine dehydratase.[6]
>
> In the third pathway of glycine degradation, glycine is converted to glyoxylate by D-amino acid oxidase. Glycoxylate is then oxidized by hepatic lactate dehydrogenase to oxalate in an NAD+-dependent reaction.[6]
>
>
> [edit] Physiological function
>
> [edit] As a biosynthetic intermediate
> Glycine is a building block to numerous natural products. In higher eukaryotes, D-Aminolevulinic acid, the key precursor to porphyrins, is biosynthesized from glycine and succinyl-CoA. Glycine provides the central C2N subunit of all purines.[7]
>
>
> [edit] As a neurotransmitter
> Glycine is an inhibitory neurotransmitter in the central nervous system, especially in the spinal cord, brainstem, and retina. When glycine receptors are activated, chloride enters the neuron via ionotropic receptors, causing an Inhibitory postsynaptic potential (IPSP). Strychnine is a strong antagonist at ionotropic glycine receptors, whereas bicuculline is a weak one. Glycine is a required co-agonist along with glutamate for NMDA receptors. In contrast to the inhibitory role of glycine in the spinal cord, this behaviour is facilitated at the (NMDA) glutaminergic receptors which are excitatory. The LD50 of glycine is 7930 mg/kg in rats (oral),[8] and it usually causes death by hyperexcitability.
>
>
> [edit] As A Potential Antipsychotic
> Dr. Daniel Javitt a clinical researcher had studied people who were addicted to PCP (angel dust) and Ketamine (PCP) (Javitt, DC, Negative Schizophrenic Symptomatology and the Phencyclydine (PCP) Model of Schizophrenia, Hillside Journal of Psychiatry 1987 9:12-35. Their brains had been damaged by the use of this drug. In studies, it was found that their glutamate receptors had been damaged. Since, use of PCP and ketamine creates psychosis similar to schizophrenia, it was hypothetisized that giving glycine to people with schizophrenia would potentially reduce their psychotic symptoms. In a controlled study people with schizophrenia who were given glycine had their symptoms reduced in a measurable sense, primarily in the area of negative and cognitive symptoms when used as an adjunct to current antipscyhotics. There have been some psychiatrists who have used it out of study as a primary antipsychotic with benefits on positive as well as negative and cognitive symptoms. Glycine's primary drawback is its required use in powdered format. However, as an NMDA receptor modulator, it is part of a class of antipsychotics in study that do not cause tardive dyskinesia or diabetes, the current long term side effects of dopaminergic antipsychotics as well as not creating extra pyramdial side effects (movement disorders), weight gain or sedation. These medications along with other new classes of medications in study may eventually replace the current antipsychotics which from Thorazine to Abilify have all been based on the dopamine hypothesis and in depleting the levels of dopamine create tardive dykinesia and other Parkinsonian movement disorders and potentially tardive psychosis which is still in study. Glycine, is part of a promising new class of treatment for schizophrenia that may promote a full recovery without debilitating physical side effects.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [edit] Industrial Uses
> Glycine is used as a sweetener/taste enhancer, buffering agent, reabsorbable amino acid, chemical intermediate, metal complexing agent, and dietary supplement as well as in certain pharmaceuticals. [9]
>
>
> [edit] Antidumping tariffs
> Glycine imported from China to the United States has been subject to antidumping duties since March, 1995. [10]
>
> In 2007, a United States manufacturer of Glycine, GEO Specialty Chemicals, Inc. filed petitions requesting that antidumping duties also be imposed on Glycine imported from Japan, the Republic of Korea, and India. On September 7, 2007 the Department of Commerce announced its affirmative preliminary determinations in the antidumping duty investigations on imports of glycine from Japan and the Republic of Korea (Korea). On October 29, 2007 the Department of Commerce announced its affirmative preliminary determination in the antidumping duty investigation on imports of glycine from India.
>
>
> [edit] Presence in the interstellar medium
> In 1994 a team of astronomers at the University of Illinois, led by Lewis Snyder, claimed that they had found the glycine molecule in space. It turned out that, with further analysis, this claim could not be confirmed. Nine years later, in 2003, Yi-Jehng Kuan from National Taiwan Normal University and Steve Charnley claimed that they detected interstellar glycine toward three sources in the interstellar medium.[11] They claimed to have identified 27 spectral lines of glycine utilizing a radio telescope. According to computer simulations and lab-based experiments, glycine was probably formed when ices containing simple organic molecules were exposed to ultraviolet light.[12]
>
> In October 2004, Snyder and collaborators reinvestigated the glycine claim in Kuan et al. (2003). In a rigorous attempt to confirm the detection, Snyder showed that glycine was not detected in any of the three claimed sources.[13]
>
> Should the glycine claim be substantiated, the finding would not prove that life exists outside the Earth, but certainly makes that possibility more plausible by showing that amino acids can be formed in the interstellar medium.
>
Posted by Phillipa on September 6, 2008, at 20:20:07
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by ILADVOCATE on September 6, 2008, at 19:35:29
Thanks for the education and clearing that up for me. Good luck on the med. Love Phillipa
Posted by ILADVOCATE on September 6, 2008, at 22:07:16
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic » ILADVOCATE, posted by Quintal on September 6, 2008, at 18:30:17
> Thanks for posting this. I'm pleased to hear there are alternatives to dopamine antagonists being studied. I don't think my doctor would take this seriously, but I might get some if it is available in health stores. The doses being used here are much higher than when it's taken as a supplement so I see the need for medical supervision. Do you have any side effects?
>
> Q20 grams is the lowest effective dose. 26 grams is too much for me. 40 grams was used in study. Its best to build up to 20 grams as a starting dose and then see how mental stability is. As for side effects, it causes some muscle weakness. Nothing dangerous but I collapsed at first taking it all at once but I got used to it but for me its helpful for controlling the tardive conditions. For a person without them it might be a problem so dosage titration throughout the day is best. It passes after a while and is not long term. And the study found no problem with electrolytes and I was tested but I do find it causes some weakness best resolved by something that boosts electrolytes such as a banana or gatoraid or orange juice. And it is activating not sedating so its best to not take it too close to bedtime. The powder mixed in water has a bad taste but you get used to it. If your psychiatrist wants information refer him to this study:
http://esi-topics.com/schizophrenia/interviews/Dr-Daniel-Javitt.html
In that study its being given in addition to an atypical antipsychotic. My psychiatrist found that I could take it by itself and its outside of a study. I had asked him but he doesn't want his contact information posted but when he publishes his study in a psychiatric journal of course I will provide links for anyone who wants to read it. Make sure to buy the concentrated powder
that is pure because the pills which are useless.
You can order the glycine powder online:
http://www.vitalnutrients.net/vnestore/detail.asp?product_id=VNGLY
If you are going to a standard psychiatrist they won't give it a second thought but a trained psychopharmocologist might feel differently. Please only take this under a psychiatrist's care. It is safe and effective but its an antipsychotic not a "supplement" even though its sold that way and needs to be medically supervised.
Posted by desolationrower on September 7, 2008, at 0:02:21
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by ILADVOCATE on September 6, 2008, at 22:07:16
Could you say more about how the glycine makes you feel?
-D/R
Posted by ILADVOCATE on September 7, 2008, at 0:14:29
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by desolationrower on September 7, 2008, at 0:02:21
> Could you say more about how the glycine makes you feel?
>
> -D/R
Well to be honest I recovered enough from schizoaffective disorder that my psychopharmocologist let me write up the results case study fashion and he will incorporate them into his own writings.
It has totally eliminated delusions and psychotic thoughts. Negative symptoms (relating to people) are heavily improved. I can understand and relate to people in a "real world" sense and "speak to them on their level". As for cognitive symptoms it increases my ability to write, comprehend and understand things. When you take it it gives you a feeling of energy and mental clarity and increased creative ability but in a real world sense. While I was tirating it if I represented someone for Social Security hearings which was part of my work then I would be better able to get through them and understand how to approach the judges and win. I know not everyone will get this level of recovery but I have and I am explaining it factually without exageration. What is more interesting in taking it what I realize "isn't there", delusions, grandiosity, passive aggressive behavior, self destructive urges that I didn't even realize what they were before the glycine. The difference between glycine and dopaminergic agents is night and day.
Posted by JDx on September 7, 2008, at 4:07:09
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by ILADVOCATE on September 7, 2008, at 0:14:29
> > Could you say more about how the glycine makes you feel?
> >
> > -D/R
> Well to be honest I recovered enough from schizoaffective disorder that my psychopharmocologist let me write up the results case study fashion and he will incorporate them into his own writings.
> It has totally eliminated delusions and psychotic thoughts. Negative symptoms (relating to people) are heavily improved. I can understand and relate to people in a "real world" sense and "speak to them on their level". As for cognitive symptoms it increases my ability to write, comprehend and understand things. When you take it it gives you a feeling of energy and mental clarity and increased creative ability but in a real world sense. While I was tirating it if I represented someone for Social Security hearings which was part of my work then I would be better able to get through them and understand how to approach the judges and win. I know not everyone will get this level of recovery but I have and I am explaining it factually without exageration. What is more interesting in taking it what I realize "isn't there", delusions, grandiosity, passive aggressive behavior, self destructive urges that I didn't even realize what they were before the glycine. The difference between glycine and dopaminergic agents is night and day.
>
>
I suggest you try higher dose , to get the full theraputic advantage you need more like 60 grams a day (20X3 times)
I also suggest to use Glycine powder that doesn't has strong taste, and is Pharmaceutical Grade quality.
(I use life extension foundation powder)
Posted by Quintal on September 7, 2008, at 8:52:12
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by ILADVOCATE on September 6, 2008, at 22:07:16
>If you are going to a standard psychiatrist they won't give it a second thought but a trained psychopharmocologist might feel differently. Please only take this under a psychiatrist's care. It is safe and effective but its an antipsychotic not a "supplement" even though its sold that way and needs to be medically supervised.
Okay, there are no other psychiatrists available to me and certainly no psychopharmacologists. Thanks for the links.
Q
Posted by iladvocate on September 7, 2008, at 10:16:40
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic » ILADVOCATE, posted by Quintal on September 7, 2008, at 8:52:12
> >If you are going to a standard psychiatrist they won't give it a second thought but a trained psychopharmocologist might feel differently. Please only take this under a psychiatrist's care. It is safe and effective but its an antipsychotic not a "supplement" even though its sold that way and needs to be medically supervised.
>
> Okay, there are no other psychiatrists available to me and certainly no psychopharmacologists. Thanks for the links.
>
> QWell you have to tell your psychiatrist you are going to start it at least. Print out the links and give it to him. You could also sign up for that lecture on new anti-psychotics I gave you the link to and then find out more information there. You can't start it on your own. My psychiatrist would not be happy with me making such a reccomendation. Just say that it is a compound in Phase 2 fda study by Dr. Javitt (its not a natural remedy or supplement no matter how its sold) for antipsychotic purposes, who is the original psychiatrist who studied it and ask if it would be acceptable if you took it. That would be fine but any medical provider has to know you are taking it. That is a standard research study. My psychopharmocologist is a well known member of the American Psychiatric Association. If you get an approval but he says he doesn't know much about it that's fine. I could fill you in on the rest. You just have to have the permission of a psychiatrist. Once he knows its a class of medications in FDA study and he sees the information you gave me, I would think he would be more open minded. That's how it should be done. If he says for some reason you can't take it get back to me. I work as board president of a non profit that does advocacy for people with disabilities and I could write a letter of testimony from my agency saying how its in study and what its done for me. Ask your psychiatrist and get back to me if there are further issues. And please build up slowly to 20 grams, see how its working and then gradually take it up from there. I believe the study uses 40 grams so the person who posted they were taking 60 grams is above what the study reccomends so I wouldn't go that high. Its safe and effective but still an unknown quantity. Best wishes on a good recovery.
Posted by iladvocate on September 7, 2008, at 10:21:15
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by JDx on September 7, 2008, at 4:07:09
> > > Could you say more about how the glycine makes you feel?
> > >
> > > -D/R
> > Well to be honest I recovered enough from schizoaffective disorder that my psychopharmocologist let me write up the results case study fashion and he will incorporate them into his own writings.
> > It has totally eliminated delusions and psychotic thoughts. Negative symptoms (relating to people) are heavily improved. I can understand and relate to people in a "real world" sense and "speak to them on their level". As for cognitive symptoms it increases my ability to write, comprehend and understand things. When you take it it gives you a feeling of energy and mental clarity and increased creative ability but in a real world sense. While I was tirating it if I represented someone for Social Security hearings which was part of my work then I would be better able to get through them and understand how to approach the judges and win. I know not everyone will get this level of recovery but I have and I am explaining it factually without exageration. What is more interesting in taking it what I realize "isn't there", delusions, grandiosity, passive aggressive behavior, self destructive urges that I didn't even realize what they were before the glycine. The difference between glycine and dopaminergic agents is night and day.
> >
> >
> I suggest you try higher dose , to get the full theraputic advantage you need more like 60 grams a day (20X3 times)
> I also suggest to use Glycine powder that doesn't has strong taste, and is Pharmaceutical Grade quality.
> (I use life extension foundation powder)
>
Well I believe that's above the study dosage and I did notice someone who had posted here in 2003 who said they took that dosage and got sick. If its working for you that makes sense though. You are taking it with some supervision of a psychiatrist right? I am trying to find out what's going on with that because if many people are taking it without a psychiatrist's supervision I want to let my psychiatrist know because other psychiatrists should consider supervising it and if its helped people in some regard then using it. If I am the only one its helped out of study that won't mean much as I start to do testimony within the APA (my psychiatrist already let me write to the chairperson from my non profit) but if its helping other people even with some symptoms it shows its something they should put into clinical practice.
Posted by Quintal on September 7, 2008, at 11:34:58
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by iladvocate on September 7, 2008, at 10:16:40
If I start taking glycine I will let my pdoc know. He's aware I take tianeptine and a painkiller that he doesn't prescribe, so I don't think he would be concerned if I started taking glycine. I've thought about bringing in studies on tianeptine, but he doesn't seem bothered about it so long as it works for me. Since I've tried practically everything and directed my own care for so long his attitude is "I don't know what to suggest any more. What do you think will work?".
I have bipolar disorder and had a major manic episode last year. When I came out of hospital I started taking my high dose calcium, magnesium and zinc supplement again and it seemed to have an antimanic effect, so it would be interesting to see if glycine in addition to that has any effect on some of the residual psychotic symptoms. I don't take an antipsychotic because they're fairly mild. During the time when I had no medical care I thought about seeing a naturopathic doctor who might be better informed and more interested in these things, but I live in a rural area and I couldn't find any within a reasonable distance. I don't think I could afford one either. Realistically, any experimentation with natural subsatances is going to be under my own direction. I'm sorry if you find that upsetting, but that's the way it is for me. I hope the introduction of prescription medicines like Deplin will lead to conventional doctors being more aware of the benefits of nutritional medicine, but until it becomes more widely accepted I think a lot of people are going to have to use their own initiative if they use this approach.
I hope my doctor would consider using glycine in a clinical setting, perhaps for some of his more seriously ill patients who aren't responding to conventional antispychotics. I will print off the Javitt essay for him to look at when I see him on Thursday. I don't think my doctor could do any reliable research in my case because there are too many factors that are beyond his control, but it might be of benefit to other people who he treats. He deals mostly with hospital inpatients suffering from psychosis, so this is his area of interest.
Q
Posted by iladvocate on September 7, 2008, at 11:45:49
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic » iladvocate, posted by Quintal on September 7, 2008, at 11:34:58
> If I start taking glycine I will let my pdoc know. He's aware I take tianeptine and a painkiller that he doesn't prescribe, so I don't think he would be concerned if I started taking glycine. I've thought about bringing in studies on tianeptine, but he doesn't seem bothered about it so long as it works for me. Since I've tried practically everything and directed my own care for so long his attitude is "I don't know what to suggest any more. What do you think will work?".
>
> I have bipolar disorder and had a major manic episode last year. When I came out of hospital I started taking my high dose calcium, magnesium and zinc supplement again and it seemed to have an antimanic effect, so it would be interesting to see if glycine in addition to that has any effect on some of the residual psychotic symptoms. I don't take an antipsychotic because they're fairly mild. During the time when I had no medical care I thought about seeing a naturopathic doctor who might be better informed and more interested in these things, but I live in a rural area and I couldn't find any within a reasonable distance. I don't think I could afford one either. Realistically, any experimentation with natural subsatances is going to be under my own direction. I'm sorry if you find that upsetting, but that's the way it is for me. I hope the introduction of prescription medicines like Deplin will lead to conventional doctors being more aware of the benefits of nutritional medicine, but until it becomes more widely accepted I think a lot of people are going to have to use their own initiative if they use this approach.
>
> I hope my doctor would consider using glycine in a clinical setting, perhaps for some of his more seriously ill patients who aren't responding to conventional antispychotics. I will print off the Javitt essay for him to look at when I see him on Thursday. I don't think my doctor could do any reliable research in my case because there are too many factors that are beyond his control, but it might be of benefit to other people who he treats. He deals mostly with hospital inpatients suffering from psychosis, so this is his area of interest.
>
> QYes I understand. I take rhodiola for tardive dyskinesia and discussed that with people. I understand that people take natural remedies. Its just that glycine is not a natural remedy. Its a medication that is an antipsychotic that they may use in conventional medicine in the future or one nearly like it. For example it is supposed to have somewhat of an anti-manic effect so in me without a mood stabilizer I did encounter some depression. I am just curious if you have bipolar why you are on an anti-depressent? An anti depressent could bring on a manic episode. You would be better off on a mood stabilizer such as Lamictal. One that is supposed to be good is the medication Lovaza which is an anti-cholesterol medication in study for mood stabilization as its a synthetic version of fish oil, a known mood stabilizer. Glycine of course is used for control of psychosis and hasn't shown that much of an effect on mood control. What pain killer are you taking? They'd have to rule out an interaction with that. I don't know of any interactions from glycine with known medications that have been found so far except Clozaril which I know you don't take but for anyone reading this they can't be taken together. But if you let your doctor know and he accepts it and you make an informed decision that sounds reasonable.
Posted by Quintal on September 7, 2008, at 12:10:17
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by iladvocate on September 7, 2008, at 11:45:49
I started out on lithium but didn't like the side effects, so I went back to Lamictal in April and it has worked quite well since then. Tianeptine was one of the few antidepressants that worked for me and had hardly any side effects, so I went back to that when I was severely depressed in June. I thought the Lamictal would protect me from mania anyway, but tianeptine seems to have a mood stabilizing effect in itself. Lack of sleep seems to be the biggest risk factor. I take codeine, but my doctor is looking into Suboxone as a substitute and antidepressant. I will find out on Thursday what his verdict is.
Q
Posted by iladvocate on September 7, 2008, at 12:16:12
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic » iladvocate, posted by Quintal on September 7, 2008, at 12:10:17
> I started out on lithium but didn't like the side effects, so I went back to Lamictal in April and it has worked quite well since then. Tianeptine was one of the few antidepressants that worked for me and had hardly any side effects, so I went back to that when I was severely depressed in June. I thought the Lamictal would protect me from mania anyway, but tianeptine seems to have a mood stabilizing effect in itself. Lack of sleep seems to be the biggest risk factor. I take codeine, but my doctor is looking into Suboxone as a substitute and antidepressant. I will find out on Thursday what his verdict is.
>
> QWell just have him check for drug interactions. My psychiatrist when he first tried me on glycine was even able to call it up on his Palmpilot. If not a psychiatrist could do a standard search on a computer that has information that would not be available to a consumer, only to a doctor. Once he ruled that out then it would be safe to go ahead. Let me know what he says.
Posted by Quintal on September 7, 2008, at 12:45:47
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by iladvocate on September 7, 2008, at 12:16:12
My doctor doesn't have any information on tianeptine. The hospital pharmacist might be able find out for him, but he'd have to call and ask. I brought some melatonin into hospital with me and she checked that it was safe to take with the other medication I was on.
Q
Posted by iladvocate on September 7, 2008, at 13:09:48
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic » iladvocate, posted by Quintal on September 7, 2008, at 12:45:47
> My doctor doesn't have any information on tianeptine. The hospital pharmacist might be able find out for him, but he'd have to call and ask. I brought some melatonin into hospital with me and she checked that it was safe to take with the other medication I was on.
>
> QThat makes sense. As for Melatonin the prescription medication Rozerem was developed from that and has the same active ingredients and is a sleeping pill that can be taken every day without concern. If the pharmacist can do an online search and comprehensive check that's a start. Just remember you are starting a new class of antipsychotic in government study even if its outside of that not just a supplement and take it that seriously in that light and regardless of whether your psychiatrist is prescribing it do let him know what's going on as with side effects and especially any positive benefits you may obtain.
Posted by desolationrower on September 7, 2008, at 19:40:44
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by iladvocate on September 7, 2008, at 12:16:12
There really isn't some hidden stash of doctor-only information, unless you are talking about drug rep spiels.
Posted by ILADVOCATE on September 7, 2008, at 20:40:55
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by desolationrower on September 7, 2008, at 19:40:44
> There really isn't some hidden stash of doctor-only information, unless you are talking about drug rep spiels.
No but they could figure out drug drug interactions. I know because my psychiatrist did on his palm pilot. That includes glycine. For example the fact that it could interact with Clozaril is something I know only because my psychiatrist told me. My point in identifying these medications in development is to get the word to the public before the pharmaceutical industry uses them for promotional purposes.
Posted by desolationrower on September 7, 2008, at 21:06:23
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by ILADVOCATE on September 7, 2008, at 20:40:55
Right, but its not his james bond palm pilot, its that there have been studies that show they don't play well together.
-D/R
Posted by ILADVOCATE on September 7, 2008, at 21:31:28
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by desolationrower on September 7, 2008, at 21:06:23
> Right, but its not his james bond palm pilot, its that there have been studies that show they don't play well together.
> -D/RSeriously though they can look up any information online and usually in a palm pilot. They have whatever they need down there.
Posted by Zyprexa on September 7, 2008, at 23:34:33
In reply to Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by ILADVOCATE on September 6, 2008, at 13:59:22
I've been taking glycine for 1.5 years now. It has never been able to replace the zyprexa.
Posted by ILADVOCATE on September 8, 2008, at 0:07:03
In reply to Re: Glycine not As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by Zyprexa on September 7, 2008, at 23:34:33
> I've been taking glycine for 1.5 years now. It has never been able to replace the zyprexa.
Yes well that's what the study found. Its generally an adjunct. Be careful as with all of the atypicals Zyprexa is the most likely to cause diabetes. If you start to have weight gain or a cholesterol increase have your psychiatrist change it. Of course if you are doing okay leave it. Abilify is the least risk for diabetes but it still can cause it but they all have a risk of tardive conditions of course. I would think its helping as a supplement though. How? In what way?
Posted by Zyprexa on September 8, 2008, at 0:14:21
In reply to Re: Glycine As a Primary Antipsychotic, posted by ILADVOCATE on September 6, 2008, at 22:07:16
I find that taking Glycine is calming and stops worrying. Its not activating. I take it one heaping teaspon at a time with water or coffee, also take it every 2-3 hours as the half life is 2 hours. Often taking it about 4 times a day. I don't find it very effective, just mildly.
The best place I've found to buy it is LuckyVitamin.com, Now foods, one pound, $9. Its also called L-glycine. As my doctor told me its ok if it has the "L" in front of it. Other than that I don't know why.
I did reaseach on it and found that it affects the Canabinoid recepters in the brain. The same thing that the good portion of POT affects. The part that is antipsychotic. The THC part though is psychotic.
I did notice that it made me a little forgetfull when I started it.
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.