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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Fivefires on June 23, 2007, at 17:53:35
In reply to Re: Tianeptine, posted by maryhelen on June 23, 2007, at 16:20:04
Wish I could maryhelen, but I've never tried it; new to me.
Hey Racer, w/ 'my P' working for a county, and I being 'a county patient' v. 'a private patient', I think he'd be unable to write it.
Here's a site w/ lots of info about it.
http://www.tianeptine.com/refs/index.html
Maybe someone else can explain more about tianeptine.
5f
Posted by Racer on June 23, 2007, at 19:03:22
In reply to Re: Tianeptine, posted by maryhelen on June 23, 2007, at 16:20:04
> Could someone tell me what kind of a medication Taneptine is?
Tianepine is a selective serotonin reuptake ENHANCER. It's kinda like the anti-prozac, if you want to look at it that way. It wasn't approved in the US, because the FDA decided it wasn't more effective than the existing ADs, and so we didn't need another anti-depressant... {rolls eyes} I believe it's only available in France at this point, and it's considered to be worth a try for a lot of people who don't respond to the usual suspects.
Hope taht helps.
Posted by Fivefires on June 25, 2007, at 19:47:29
In reply to Re: Tianeptine » maryhelen, posted by Racer on June 23, 2007, at 19:03:22
I'm seeing a different P Weds., so have written this one down to discuss. I understand it is not available in the United States. Is anyone on it? I understand it is indicated for those who have failed to respond to the usual SSRIs.
I'm pretty sure I have TRD (treatment resistant depression). I don't know if I was always this way. I think maybe I did respond to a couple SSRIs and an SNRI in the past. But now, I don't.
I'm following another thread about an atypical antipsychotic, Clozaril (clozapine), indicated for schizophrenia, especially those who have failed to respond to the usual atypical antipsychotics.
It's becoming confusing as both ADs and atypical antipsychotics are being prescribed for ... depression!!!
Wish I could take u w/ me 2 my appt Racer, as I'm less well-educated than u re: the pharmacology of psychiatric medications.
My profession was a med transcr*ptionist. I had to pay more attn to 'not capitalizing generic meds' and 'capitalizing brand name meds', than to the pharmacology of the medications.
I've been glued to my bed far too long, not even logging onto pute.
I'm on nothing but Xanax 2mg t.i.d. (three times a day) and 75mg Lyrica as h.s. (hour of sleep). See, that's the transcr*ptionist in me.
I begin to 'shake fiercely' in 2-3hrs after a Xanax dosage time if I've forgotton to take it.
I tend 'to forget' to take my Xanax, I think, sort of deliberately, because, 'I'm embarrassed to admit I need it' or 'Nervousness has become one of my traits' or 'I'm afraid I'll be called an addict and get one of the usual lectures'.
This is, for me, another confusing cunundrum. Is it addiction or dependence?
I cannot not mention I had a nervous system breakdown which was 'extremely physical' and lacking in any mental dysfunction, but there is 'no code' for this in the coding book in medical records at the hospitals, afa I know. Saying I had a 'nervous breakdown', is taken incorrectly. There are assumptions I stripped naked and ran screaming down the street!(?)
Anyway, I'm feeling I need some help. I'm thinking, 'She needs detox!' just came to some of your minds.(?) I know not all.
I can't seem to get the help I need from 'therapy' or 'family', so will once again turn to a drug.
Yes, I do reach out. If u called the local warm line (non-suicidal line) and said my name, most all peer supports, therapists, or clinicians would recognize it. I'm afraid if I stop talking, I'll stop moving forward, or stop ' trying' to move forward.
A lot of u have known me for more than a couple years. If any1 has any thoughts about what might help me out of my rut, it's cool to say here or by babble feature. I'll even promise not to dodge anti-benzo remarks.
It's clear 2me I'm depressed. Think 'my confusion' is a part of it.
I can't say for sure it is 'clinical' depression or 'incident induced' depression. (I know that's not the proper wording.) I'm a bit of a drama queen and have quite a strong (I don't mean 'strength' strong.) personality as well. I have this sort of 'ignorant courage'. If there's something to be tried, it's likely I'll try it, even at my own risk, w/o knowing all the facts.
I feel the state I'm in may have 'become clinical' over time. Can this happen? I think, after many years, maybe yes.
I've never been psychotic. I have little to 'no symptoms' of bipolarity.
My 'labels' (disdain) are 'depression and anxiety' or 'generalized anxiety disorder' or 'borderline personality disorder'.
I'll check back w/ u all tomorrow, Tuesday. Hope all well.
tks, 5f
Posted by Fivefires on June 26, 2007, at 22:33:18
In reply to Re: Tianeptine (But, not available in US?), posted by Fivefires on June 25, 2007, at 19:47:29
Somewhere here, under tianeptine topic, one made mention of study done in area of anorexia nervosa, showing elevated levels of serotonin in CNS, which might be the cause of the AN.
Then, my take, was an SSR enhancer, might be indicated, alongside the SSRI, to more effectively augment the SSRI.
I'm 5'5 and 120lbs or less, so 'it caught my attn', even though I don't have AN.
I just thought maybe there is some commonality between lightweights like me and elevated levels of serotonin and mayB I need an enhancer alongside an SSRI???
I guess I've been thinking go w/ either:
CELEXA - I might have had some bit of success on it years ago, but ditched it too quickly when a life event pulled me down, an action I've chosen too often out of fear of high dosages.
or
CYMBALTA - Only because used to get results from Effexor-XR and have the c-spine injury. I've never tried Cymbalta. I've been on Eff plain and Eff-XR at least 5x and had various results. Most recent was 'no response .. it didn't work at all'. I believe my body developed a tolerance to it and I would have had to go up to a high dosage to feel anything at all. Then my reg. Pdoc said he hated how awful it was getting me off of it.
Back to SSR enhancers. Mention is made of Sulpiride. Is this available in the US? R there any others?
I've been surviving on Payday candy bars and Pepsi and applesauce. What's up w/ my body wanting all this sugar? Then salt. Oh, that's right, the 4th P, is Pringles. Yeah; I'm totally abusing physical self; can't shake it.
This way of living has snow-balled since moving to an isolated environment, and may have (not sure - so damn confused - got off Valium re: too much sedation) worsened upon switching from Valium to Xanax.
I'm going to this newPdoc in the a.m. and haven't a clue what to focus on. I just know whatever it is, that will take the entire 15 minutes & I'll leave w/ 'one scrip' for 'the first med I mention'.
I want to really discuss my experience w/ all SSRIs causing anxiety, SNRI Effexor and Effexor-XR causing nothing to a little relief to once mania, tricyclics nothing to speak of, mood stabilizers headaches, atypical antipsychotics weight gain; the total of my experiences, all in the constraints of 15 freakin' minutes.
I've lost b4 I've begun.
I've always been on monotherapy. What's w/ this? Lots of u are on cocktails.
All I know is the first med I mention is the one I'll walk out the door with tomorrow.
If I mention Cymbalta, it will be written, and I'll be shown the door.
Maybe I should see if someone could go with me?
Any1 comment?
tks, 5f
ps: I know I ask a lot of u all, which is so ridiculous, as this is the job of a Pdoc. I can't afford private care. I know I'm not getting good care. I tried go thru Medicare advantage plan and found a great Pdoc but couldn't afford the meds he wrote, so had to go back to county.
So, 4 what it's worth, u all are everything to me.
Posted by Phillipa on June 26, 2007, at 23:13:02
In reply to Re: Tianeptine + Fivefires Struggle 2 Get Help, posted by Fivefires on June 26, 2007, at 22:33:18
Well since you can't get tianeptine in the USA focus on what you can have. Cymbalta would be good as it has helped with peripheral neuropathy. It's a very expensive med as it's not in generic. Did you get the med insurance with Medicaire? I did and it pays for all antidepressants 0 money. But not for any benzos. So are you stuck with generics? If so maybe try effexor again? Let me know how the appointment goes. And maybe go from the xanax to valium again. The long half life. Love Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on June 27, 2007, at 7:41:42
In reply to Re: Tianeptine + Fivefires Struggle 2 Get Help, posted by Fivefires on June 26, 2007, at 22:33:18
>Somewhere here, under tianeptine topic, one made >mention of study done in area of anorexia >nervosa, showing elevated levels of serotonin in >CNS, which might be the cause of the AN.
Well, how about that! Force feed the anorexics SSRI's and suddenly one realizes they might have too high circulating serotonin!
I think that they adopt whatever biochemical theory fits the drug.
If the drug lowers chemical x, well then, by God, the disorder must have involved too much of chemical x.
Not to say its not possable, I just think its funny, as for the last 15 years anorexics have had too little serotonin.
Linkadge
Posted by Fivefires on June 27, 2007, at 9:27:48
In reply to Re: Tianeptine + Fivefires Struggle 2 Get Help » Fivefires, posted by Phillipa on June 26, 2007, at 23:13:02
If Pdoc cannot write Cymbalta, PCP can.
I had no 'weight gain' on Effexor-XR, in fact, more an opposite I believe, and was stabilizing. But, got to point needed go up to 300mg and I backed off. Getting too high on these frightens me. And yes, I do need to stay w/ one of the anxiolytics. Tks Phillipa!
5f
Posted by Fivefires on June 27, 2007, at 9:46:39
In reply to Re: Tianeptine + Fivefires Struggle 2 Get Help, posted by linkadge on June 27, 2007, at 7:41:42
Yes, and all too often life is so this way. Like working from the end back to be the beginning.
So ok ... Can 1 get a lab test for level of serotonin???? And, then is there a baseline?
No wonder SSRIs send me running for a benzo!(?) Had an initial buzz on one, like 'oh ... you found out we were here!' and then a drop and flatline w/ no more buzz.
So, can u explain diff'; enhancing v. inhibiting, how it might play out, link?
tks, 5f
Posted by Sigismund on June 27, 2007, at 15:39:22
In reply to Re: Tianeptine + Fivefires Struggle 2 Get Help, posted by Fivefires on June 27, 2007, at 9:46:39
>can u explain diff'; enhancing v. inhibiting, how it might play out, link?
Well, that's what they say tianeptine does (and they would be right) but I wonder if it tells you anything much about the difference between tianeptine and an SSRI (and they wouldn't all be the same....I wouldn't know never having tried one).
People have said this about how tianeptine makes them feel
like an SSRI
much softer and warmer than an SSRI,
mildly prosocial but nothing else
playful
like they are on mushrooms
not quite rightAnd then there are people for whom it has been very useful.
Everyone seems to agree on the benign side effect profile aspect of it.
For me it got me out of the house and up close to the human race, which must count as an achievement.
Posted by Sigismund on June 27, 2007, at 15:41:46
In reply to Re: Tianeptine, posted by Sigismund on June 27, 2007, at 15:39:22
It has made some people anxious, but generally people report feeling less anxious overall.
There's none of this having to wait for 6 weeks either.
You know pretty much within 24 hours if it agrees with you.
At least I did.
Posted by Fivefires on June 27, 2007, at 19:36:38
In reply to Re: Tianeptine, posted by Sigismund on June 27, 2007, at 15:39:22
I'm totally envious Linkadge. In a good way!
5f
Posted by Fivefires on June 27, 2007, at 19:42:23
In reply to Re: Tianeptine, posted by Sigismund on June 27, 2007, at 15:39:22
Whoops. Yep, I mis-read; I mean Sigimund!
I would adore getting back into 'life' again.
(I hope I'm getting this right, this time. My anxiety is high. I've missed my midday dose of Xanax, again, by about 4 hours!)
loggingoff4abit, 5f
Posted by Sigismund on June 27, 2007, at 20:51:39
In reply to Re: Tianeptine, posted by Fivefires on June 27, 2007, at 19:42:23
It gave me a 3 month window of opportunity.
Still works, but for 3 months was good enough to get me out in public, and now I've relaxed a little about that.
Posted by Fivefires on June 27, 2007, at 21:57:07
In reply to Re: Tianeptine » Sigismund, posted by Sigismund on June 27, 2007, at 15:41:46
Every SSRI has made me anxious .. hands down.
If this could work differently, it might not. This is what I would really like to find out. How? Not sure. The Pdoc said 'Well first of all, you'd have to go to France to get it!'(?)
Hmmmm. He's not only w/o knowledge of it, he's telling me something that I believe is incorrect. Correct me if wrong, but it is not illegal to buy a med from a different country and use it here if under care of a licensed physician here.
Does any1 think, re: the pharmacology of it being an enhancer, it could be 'less anxiety inducing' than the 'inhibitors'?
Maybe I'd not have to take as much anti-anxiety med as I do now.
5f
ps: Sorry. Think spelled ur user name wrong too, Sigismund. I'm feeling particularly anxious today - lots of life issues going on - and what 'I used to juggle', I'm now lucky to 'throw from one hand to another'.
Posted by Sigismund on July 1, 2007, at 2:01:40
In reply to Re: Tianeptine, posted by Fivefires on June 27, 2007, at 21:57:07
Since every SSRI has made you anxious, tianeptine may not.
>Correct me if wrong, but it is not illegal to buy a med from a different country and use it here if under care of a licensed physician here.
That's my understanding....3 months supply.
>Maybe I'd not have to take as much anti-anxiety med as I do now.
There are people who find tianeptine anxiety (or more likely, weirdness) producing, but most do not.
Posted by Fivefires on July 2, 2007, at 14:53:48
In reply to Re: Tianeptine » Fivefires, posted by Sigismund on July 1, 2007, at 2:01:40
Tks Sigi. 'Weird' would be acceptable as I'm familiar with this trait.
OkOnCymbalta4Now, 5f
Posted by Sigismund on July 3, 2007, at 3:10:27
In reply to Re: Tianeptine, posted by Fivefires on July 2, 2007, at 14:53:48
Weird?
We get used to it, don't we :)
Posted by elanor roosevelt on July 5, 2007, at 21:07:52
In reply to Re: Tianeptine » Fivefires, posted by Sigismund on July 3, 2007, at 3:10:27
oh please
weird is a good day
Posted by Fivefires on July 11, 2007, at 18:58:49
In reply to Re: Tianeptine, posted by elanor roosevelt on July 5, 2007, at 21:07:52
Got off 30mg Cymbalta re: nausea and pain everywhere. So Pdoc called in 20mg, but now scared to try.
I noticed 'no appetite at all' on it.
5f
ps: About a 7 on the weirdness scale today. Shooting for a 9! Ha!
Posted by KayeBaby on July 11, 2007, at 20:04:34
In reply to Re: Tianeptine, posted by Fivefires on July 11, 2007, at 18:58:49
If you can, start low on this one. I would do 10 or 15mg for a couple of days and slowly move up.
This drug did not get the nickname Cymbarfa for nothing.
Same goes when you come off of it s-l-o-w-l-y.
I got almost a years relief from this with several months very good results. No weight gain-lost a bit till the last couple of months I started to gain. I think it just quit on me but a year is about all I get out of a med if I am lucky. I do NOT do well on most antidepressants. This was a good one. I actually felt smarter on it. Better memory. Some slight hypomania here and there which was most welcome.Not to scare you off but just expect that if you are on this a while you will have to taper ever so slowly. It was yucky getting off of it for me.
Best of luck to you.
Kaye
Posted by Fivefires on July 11, 2007, at 20:34:00
In reply to Re: Tianeptine, posted by KayeBaby on July 11, 2007, at 20:04:34
Oh dear. This new/older Pdoc said lowest available was 20mg.(?)
Gotcha' re: the Cymbarfa!
I do NOT do well on most ADs either.
Sounds a lot like Effexor-XR (I've been on it 4-5 times.), but this 'didn't feel' anything like Effexor-XR to me.
No prob', appreciate input.
tks, 5f
Posted by confuzyq on July 14, 2007, at 16:06:20
In reply to Re: Tianeptine » KayeBaby, posted by Fivefires on July 11, 2007, at 20:34:00
Hi 5f, I didn't read the whole thread but sharpie me gets the feeling it's Cymbalta being discussed at the moment.
Just wanted to mention -- I think I saw you post somewhere that you smoke? I do, and before I tried Cymbalta I had read that its effects can be reduced by that, and I think they were with me. At 60 mg. I still felt hardly a thing, and after a couple months when I decided to come off it I didn't need any taper at all, cold turkey and I couldn't even tell I was coming off something. And that sure wasn't the case when I came off zoloft (tho that I had been on for a couple years at least).
Which is NOT to say that I think you should go high on it, just wanted to mention the "fun fact" that smoking can affect absorption of this drug apparently, and it really seemed to for me. Maybe having read that first was a factor but I've always been, if anything, a meds lightweight (can't go high or even average on most things).
Best,
CQ
Posted by Fivefires on July 14, 2007, at 17:53:53
In reply to Re: Cymbalta » Fivefires, posted by confuzyq on July 14, 2007, at 16:06:20
Yep do smoke. That's interesting CQ.
I'm too ill w/ a stomach flu right now to give Cymbalta another shot yet. I had all sorts of bad side effects on just 30mg, so worked opposite w/ me.
The way you speak of it reminds me of how I felt on Effexor-XR.
Isn't it perplexing how we all react so differently.
I think I've developed TRD (treatment resistant depression), and for me, this thread, I think, is a little bit about this.
It has been suggested I try an atypical antipsychotic or a mood stabilizer at diff' times in the past. Always I have resisted because of weight gain.
I won't w/o an *anti* appetite-inducing drug alongside it.
So anyway, I'm trying any ADs I may have skipped over or not given enough time b4 taking the prior action, if it may ever be offered to me.
tks, 5f
Posted by KayeBaby on July 14, 2007, at 18:28:09
In reply to Re: Cymbalta, posted by Fivefires on July 14, 2007, at 17:53:53
This is from someone who can eat her brains out on stims-I always lose on Wellbutrin and even when I was on Lyrica the Wellbutrin at a small dose (50-100mg sr) kept the pounds at bay. The minute I came off of the WB-watch out. I blew up in a little more than a week!
Have you ever tried WB?
Peace,
Kaye
Posted by Fivefires on July 14, 2007, at 20:07:25
In reply to Re: Cymbalta, posted by KayeBaby on July 14, 2007, at 18:28:09
No. Never knew Wellbutrin might work this way.
I was on it once 'alone' .. monotherapy.(?)
Is Lyrica appetite inducing? I take 75mg every eve. (I know; a real lightweight.)
TksKB
5f
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