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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 63. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on May 29, 2007, at 2:24:33
Sorry I was gone so long. This board had crashed, job had picked up and most importantly FEELING BETTER. Been on Nardil 45mg for two months now and has reduced anxiety at least 90-percent (it was rough to start, but well worth it now).
Blackouts are 90-percent gone, still have minor constipation. Really the only bothersome side effects are daytime sedation and insomnia. It may be from a few factors: 1) Not on a routine schedule, 2) taking naps too often during day and 3) may need to take Nardil later in day.
But you know what? I feel like a NEW PERSON without being overwhelmed 24/7 by anxiety. Thank you, God. If I had to put up with a few side effects, so be it. And hopefully my body will adjust over time.
FINALLY: My biggest fear, from reading all the "anti-MAOI" conspiracy theorists, was weight gain. I am 6-4 and was bulging at the belt at 252. I was a candidate for Diabetes Type II, which is why the Nardil "weight gain" hype freaked me.
Nevertheless, anxiety 24/7 was worse than anything in the world, so I tried it anyway. I really worked hard on a balanced diet: Fruit for breakfast, oatmeal or grilled Chic-Fil-A for lunch and anything for dinner (just in small portions like Weight Watchers).
I am surprised to see me at 215 now, as is everyone who knows me.
DISCLAIMER: This is not intended to make anyone who gained weight on Nardil feel bad or like a failure because every med affects everyone differently. I just want to tell my story to let ppl on here who are thinking about taking Nardil but scared bec of possible weight gain that it is not always true.
I hope to hear updates on everyone. God bless, love you, Merry Summer, Michael
Posted by malcolm664 on May 29, 2007, at 7:28:24
In reply to I'M BACK ... and 37 lbs. lighter on NARDIL, posted by UgottaHaveHope on May 29, 2007, at 2:24:33
> Sorry I was gone so long. This board had crashed, job had picked up and most importantly FEELING BETTER. Been on Nardil 45mg for two months now and has reduced anxiety at least 90-percent (it was rough to start, but well worth it now).
>
> Blackouts are 90-percent gone, still have minor constipation. Really the only bothersome side effects are daytime sedation and insomnia. It may be from a few factors: 1) Not on a routine schedule, 2) taking naps too often during day and 3) may need to take Nardil later in day.
>
> But you know what? I feel like a NEW PERSON without being overwhelmed 24/7 by anxiety. Thank you, God. If I had to put up with a few side effects, so be it. And hopefully my body will adjust over time.
>
> FINALLY: My biggest fear, from reading all the "anti-MAOI" conspiracy theorists, was weight gain. I am 6-4 and was bulging at the belt at 252. I was a candidate for Diabetes Type II, which is why the Nardil "weight gain" hype freaked me.
>
> Nevertheless, anxiety 24/7 was worse than anything in the world, so I tried it anyway. I really worked hard on a balanced diet: Fruit for breakfast, oatmeal or grilled Chic-Fil-A for lunch and anything for dinner (just in small portions like Weight Watchers).
>
> I am surprised to see me at 215 now, as is everyone who knows me.
>
> DISCLAIMER: This is not intended to make anyone who gained weight on Nardil feel bad or like a failure because every med affects everyone differently. I just want to tell my story to let ppl on here who are thinking about taking Nardil but scared bec of possible weight gain that it is not always true.
>
> I hope to hear updates on everyone. God bless, love you, Merry Summer, MichaelThat's really great news Michael!! Hope that the Nardil keeps working for you. BTW, when I was on Nardil a year ago, I didn't notice any effect on my weight. In fact, I may have lost weight, b/c I stopped working out and lost my appetite (I had always been pretty active physically). But then I only remained on the med for about 3 months max, so can't comment on how it might have affected my weight had I remained on it longer.
Anyway, that's great news!
Best-
Malcolm
Posted by brooke484 on May 29, 2007, at 8:21:28
In reply to I'M BACK ... and 37 lbs. lighter on NARDIL, posted by UgottaHaveHope on May 29, 2007, at 2:24:33
That's wonderful you're feeling better. YOu said the blackouts are 90% gone. I just started Nardil last week and have been feeling very lightheaded and like I could pass out (and I'm only on 7.5 mgs). When did those side effects stop for you?
Thanks so much,
brooke
Posted by Phillipa on May 29, 2007, at 10:37:15
In reply to question, posted by brooke484 on May 29, 2007, at 8:21:28
Michael good to see you back but I thought psychiologically it was only possible to lose two pounds of fat a week which is l6 pounds could the rest be water weight? As you know I haven't ruled out nardil but you know the doc situation. Glad your doing better. Love Jan
Posted by stargazer2 on May 29, 2007, at 11:15:53
In reply to I'M BACK ... and 37 lbs. lighter on NARDIL, posted by UgottaHaveHope on May 29, 2007, at 2:24:33
Welcome back, we missed your perspective and support of so many here. As you know, I too started Nardil about 2 weeks ago and have had good results as well with my TRD. I was persistent with my doctor who kept skirting starting Nardil for about a year now, having tried Marplan, Cymbalta, Emsam, Abilify, Lamictal and Seroquel, all with failed results.
Its amazing how we have to take conrol of our own care if we want to get better, having had luck with Nardil in 1987/1989 and over the twenty years since with minimal results with every AD on the market.
My refusal of ECT has been due to my belief that medicine holds the cure for depression, not electrical current, at least for me, having had success with Nardil and Marplan in the past, one pooping out due to too low of a dose (lack of knowledge back then) and one being discontinued due to underutilization in 1994 (Marplan).
But I'm happy for your weight loss between eating right and exercise, I'm not gaining and my only side effect is early AM wakening and subsequent afternoon fatigue. There wwas some improvement as I changed my dosing schedule from 8-12-4 to 8-2-8 so that may help you also.
My ability to focus and think more clearly is amazing and although I have had symptoms of ADD with my depression, the Nardil seems to work for that as well.
Fellow nardilite, it's been a great improvement for me. I still have my backup researcher pdoc with the lofty credentials if and when I have a need to tweak or modify my treatment. I have you to thank for him.
I'll be in touch...
SG2
Posted by brooke484 on May 29, 2007, at 13:35:53
In reply to Welcome back Michael, fellow Nardilite, posted by stargazer2 on May 29, 2007, at 11:15:53
You said you started Nardil 2 weeks ago. Are you using that Plasmin Plus or Bioperine? I've been reading some of the old posts and I think it was Michael Bell who had some success with that.
brooke
Posted by Johann on May 29, 2007, at 13:52:17
In reply to I'M BACK ... and 37 lbs. lighter on NARDIL, posted by UgottaHaveHope on May 29, 2007, at 2:24:33
Good to hear you're better than okay and to have you back.
Johann
Posted by stargazer2 on May 29, 2007, at 16:39:50
In reply to stargazer, posted by brooke484 on May 29, 2007, at 13:35:53
NO, I never heard of those things, what are they. I'm on straight Nardil at 45 mg/day with afternoon somnolence, no other additives or meds. Its terrific to be only on one med for a change!
Stargazer
Posted by brooke484 on May 29, 2007, at 20:11:45
In reply to Brooke484, posted by stargazer2 on May 29, 2007, at 16:39:50
There has been an ongoing debate about the new vs old Nardil. People are saying the new version isn't as effective. I was just curious what you thought about that. Have you only tried the new Nardil?
Here is the post.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20050527/msgs/505052.html
brooke
Posted by FredPotter on May 30, 2007, at 18:05:04
In reply to I'M BACK ... and 37 lbs. lighter on NARDIL, posted by UgottaHaveHope on May 29, 2007, at 2:24:33
Good on you Michael. I too stopped visiting PB because I was too busy working and getting on with life. Nardil has worked for me. It took 6-7 weeks and I'm now on 90mg (on the basis of 1mg per kg body weight and I felt I was sliding back a bit on 75mg). But you're heavier than me so I'm surprised 45mg is enough.
I've put on weight and I don't eat much. But I have what I suspect to be statin-related muscle pain so can't take any exercise at all. Nardil does cause me total lack of sexual feelings or ability. I'm hoping this will wear off as it did on a lower dose earlier. But as you say, to be almost totally free of depression and anxiety - it's worth the side effects. I say this as an older person who's already had children however. Loss of sexual function for a younger person could be disastrous especially as it can stop relationships in their tracks (I'm afraid). And relationships are good for psychic symptoms in my experience.
Fred
Posted by FredPotter on May 30, 2007, at 18:06:43
In reply to question, posted by brooke484 on May 29, 2007, at 8:21:28
yes I got the passing out feeling. It's low blood pressure I think. I have to prop myself up for a minute or so after standing up
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on June 1, 2007, at 2:09:54
In reply to Re: I'M BACK ... and 37 lbs. lighter on NARDIL, posted by malcolm664 on May 29, 2007, at 7:28:24
Malcolm, I have only been on the med 10 weeks. My goal on Nardil regarding weight was simply NOT to gain it. I wouldve been happy at 252. But with my new eating habits, along with moderate exercise, it has just dropped off. How are you doing? Please update me. Michael
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on June 1, 2007, at 2:16:19
In reply to question, posted by brooke484 on May 29, 2007, at 8:21:28
You know when I went on Nardil, I told the pdoc of all the negative stuff I had read on here about "Nardil weight gain." He said there was NO guarantee of that at all, but he promised me one side effect: blackouts.
He was right. I've had them, almost fallen over countless times, etc. The best thing to do is to sit for a few minutes before standing up at all times, esp in the morning.
The GOOD news is that it goes away in time. Well, it gets better. I rarely get them now, but I do. You may also have other side effects. You've just got to come to decision of whether or not the side effects are worth the tradeoff of the medicine's benefits. For me, I can take it, whatever keeps me from being ravaged by anxiety 24/7.
Please keep me posted on your progress, Michael
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on June 1, 2007, at 2:21:17
In reply to Re: question, posted by Phillipa on May 29, 2007, at 10:37:15
It is gone :)
Im at around 210, which I weighed at around college. Everybody says I look too skinny, but thats only bec they dont remember how I looked in the good ol' days.
I feel better, Jan, thats the most important thing. I would've been glad to stay at 252 or even gain 10 lbs if it meant not being ravaged 24/7 by anxiety, which IS the case now after 10 weeks of Nardil. It was a tough 10 weeks, and I'm sure I've got some more bumps ahead, but it was worth it for me. MIRACLE drug.
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on June 1, 2007, at 2:25:11
In reply to Welcome back Michael, fellow Nardilite, posted by stargazer2 on May 29, 2007, at 11:15:53
SG: I am so glad to hear about your improvement on Nardil. Everyone on PBabble is on my prayer list, and I am glad you finally found your way back to Nardil. I hope it continues to help, and just know you can augment it if it starts to fade a bit (it hasn't with me).
I totally RELATE to you on the insomnia and daytime sedation, although the insomnia has gotten a little better at 10 weeks. I dont know what to do about daytime sedation, other than drink caffeine.
Will e ya soon, Michael
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on June 1, 2007, at 2:26:39
In reply to Re: I'M BACK ... and 37 lbs. lighter on NARDIL, posted by Johann on May 29, 2007, at 13:52:17
Johann, I didn't re-join bec I couldnt figure out what was going on with this website, but I did see the message asking about me. That was very kind of you and made my day.
Please update me on you. Michael
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on June 1, 2007, at 2:29:27
In reply to stargazer, posted by brooke484 on May 29, 2007, at 20:11:45
And if you live in the US, thats all there is, unless you get permission to order from overseas.
The general consensus seems to be that you have to take a little more of the New Nardil (45-60mg) to equal Old Nardil (30-45). But every med affects everyone differently.
Michael
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on June 1, 2007, at 2:37:53
In reply to Re: I'M BACK ... and 37 lbs. lighter on NARDIL » UgottaHaveHope, posted by FredPotter on May 30, 2007, at 18:05:04
I just didn't want to GAIN A LOT of weight, which is the favorite (but obviously always not true) topic of some in here. I would've been happy staying at 252 or even gaining 10 lbs. if I felt like I do now (which is NOT being ravaged by anxiety 24/7).
Losing the weight was just an added bonus. I think it came from eating fruit for breakfast, fiber most of the time for lunch, and an almost complete avoidance of fried foods. Plus I eat what I like, but less of it.
I am NOT surprised that 45 has worked for me so far. NOT AT ALL. The 1mg per 1kg of body weight is just a scientific theory and a good suggestion. But every med affects everyone differently. For some ppl heavier than me, 15mg may be enough. Everyone is different.
Glad to hear you are doing better. I've been wondering. Oh yeah, where are your jokes and humor? I miss that :) Michaek
Posted by stargazer2 on June 1, 2007, at 7:31:05
In reply to Nardites UNITE » stargazer2, posted by UgottaHaveHope on June 1, 2007, at 2:25:11
Michael, lets see where I'm at this week...
My brain is focusing and organizing daily activities better and I'm starting to get bored, but not depressed, although sometimes the distinction is murky.
I have cut back on a few days from 45mg to 30mg with less daytime sedation but yesterday I took a 2.5 hour nap which gave me lots of energy and I slept pretty good last night. I take the last dose before going to bed. I am trying to avoid more medication by changing the schedule of when I take the meds, so I'm in an experimentation mode now.
Have you ever taken 30 mg at once or do you space out the 15 mg over the course of the day? When do you take the last dose?
I did have a horrible side effect when I started and I wasn't sure it was related to Nardil but it was. The medical term is flatus, aka gas, and the only thing that is helping is taking a product which adds fiber to my diet. So far it's helping, but not totally resolved. One poster, a few years ago, also had this SE.
The rest of the side effects are minimal, compared to the suffering and worthlessness I have felt for over a year. I had to persist in getting Nardil precribed (you know), although I'm not sure why there is so much reluctance when I have a medical background and know all about the side effects, and the diet and check my BP when required. The diet was harder after not being on a MAO for many years, but the sacrifices I am making are more than made up with the positives of the drug.
Doctors have to stop doing this to us. I lost many years of my life and resent that I was forgotten in the equation, because of a doctor's reluctance to prescribe a MAO. How may others out there are still suffering and perhaps dying because of this practice????? MAO's can't be the first line of treatment, but years of worthlessness is more dangerous than the side effects of the MAO's. My opinion and life, but so many wasted years trying to work with anhedonia and feelings of worthlessness is really no way to live.
Have the patient sign a waiver if the drug is so dangerous, it should be our informed consent to decide how much risk we want take in life with any medical treatment. Isn't ECT more dangerous than a MAO? I believe it is, although I came close to having it done once when I was so far gone. I was just too fearful of it and I feel the MAO's are less risky with careful monitoring of them for select patients that can follow dietary and medical orders carefully.
I feel it is imperative for MAO's to be tried for those patients stuck for years (even a few bad months) in a truly horrible depression (anxiety) before ECT or another invasive oprocedure like VNS is used. Those seem more dangerous and costly to me.
Who agrees with this assessment? It seems clear to me from this side of the abyss.
Stargazer
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on June 1, 2007, at 9:53:17
In reply to MAO's, Nardil should be used B4 other Rx's, posted by stargazer2 on June 1, 2007, at 7:31:05
SG, Or let me rephrase that: Everyone that I have talked to that takes Nardil has had and continues to have episodes of "bad gas", but it is such a minor, minor thing compared to the other side effects (at least to me) that I dont even bother mentioning it.
SG, you have probably forgotten more than I will ever know about meds, but I dont think you should be too concerned right now about daytime sedation or insomnia or afternoon naps, etc. The only thing that matters (at least in my opinion) is making it to the 8-10 week point, where you can truly get an accurate assessment on how Nardil will work for you. Then you can start making adjustments, and yes, taking it in combined doses or at different times of the day is the way to combat daytime sedation and insomnia.
Im sure that is what I will be working on when I meet with my pdoc next week (time and dosage of my 45mg/day). Unfortunately, I havent done that much to help my sedation/insomnia bec 1) dont take pills same time each day and 2) have bad sleep routine.
BUT, I am in complete AMAZEMENT with how much better I feel. Nardil is a miracle for me, but it's not perfect. It has some brutal side effects in startup, most that will lessen or completely go away in time. But it's worth the tradeoff for me, anything to NOT feel ravaged by anxiety 24/7.
Posted by brooke484 on June 1, 2007, at 13:07:40
In reply to Re: Blackouts greatly reduced after 8 weeks » brooke484, posted by UgottaHaveHope on June 1, 2007, at 2:16:19
When I took Nardil back in 1996 I never experienced this dizzy/lightheaded feeling that I have now and I went up to 60 mgs. In fact, I didn't have any side effects at all, so I'm kind of bummed that I'm experiencing them this time. I bought some salt tablets and I suppose I should get a blood pressure monitor. I can live with it though if it means I'll feel better in time. Nardil is kind of the last resort unless there are some new wonder drugs coming out in the near future.
Thanks again and glad you're doing well. It gives people hope!
brooke
Posted by UgottaHaveHope on June 2, 2007, at 3:19:40
In reply to Re: Blackouts, posted by brooke484 on June 1, 2007, at 13:07:40
Thats a mistaken belief. If you go to a pdoc who really knows what he or she is doing (especially one with a research background at a university), Nardil could be the first line of treatment (as is Emsam, the MAOI patch), or more likely the second line of treatment.
MAOIs have been around for 50 years because THEY WORK. They just dont provide the same profit margin as all of the new SSRIs, therefore they are not pushed and marketed by the drug reps onto the doctors.
Posted by stargazer2 on June 2, 2007, at 16:48:05
In reply to I'm thinking everyone has flatuence on Nardil .... » stargazer2, posted by UgottaHaveHope on June 1, 2007, at 9:53:17
Today I woke up with a new side effect of Nardil: swollen ankles. It is quite pronounced on both my external and internal malleolus (ankles). This was not present in the first few weeks of Nardil, so it is a later effect but obviously I'm concerned because it is quite obvious and I'm wondering if it is caused by a touch of CHF (congestive heart failure) Anyone else with this side effect and if so, what was done to relieve the swelling other than telling you to elevate your legs as much as possible. Was Lasix ever prescribed for this or another diuretic? Perhaps a natural diuretic since I tend to have low BP and a diuretic may cause my BP to drop further...
My ankles were never thin to begin with, so now they really are prominent and they ache.Stargazer
Posted by Phillipa on June 2, 2007, at 19:39:06
In reply to Nardil, new side effect; swollen ankles, posted by stargazer2 on June 2, 2007, at 16:48:05
Stargazer I know another poster who had to give up EMSAM because of swelling. Did you call your doc? Don't want to see you fail. Love Phillipa
Posted by lymom3 on June 2, 2007, at 20:51:38
In reply to Nardil, new side effect; swollen ankles, posted by stargazer2 on June 2, 2007, at 16:48:05
While I've not been on Nardil, I did take Emsam. Same result as you. Although I was feeling better after several weeks the swelling set in. First the doc wanted me to wear support hose; then they tried a diuretic. Never did get any relief from the swelling but what did me in with the Emsam was the insomnia. I could not sleep no matter what I tried with that. When I quit the Emsam the swelling went away.
Believe me I had tons of tests and they did not find anything wrong with me.
Best wishes to you,
Lisa
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