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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by notfred on December 28, 2006, at 4:48:07
http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=20061113111525280
Marijuana, the Anti-Drug
Monday, November 13 2006 @ 11:15 AM PST
Contributed by: arch_stanton
Views: 2,539
Ending the Drug WarThe extent to which medical cannabis users discontinue or reduce their use of pharmaceutical and over-the-counter drugs is a recurring theme in a recent survey of pro-cannabis (PC) California doctors. The drug-reduction phenomenon has obvious scientific implications. Medicating with cannabis enables people to lay off stimulants as well as sedatives -suggesting that the herb's active ingredients restore homeostasis to various bodily systems. (Lab studies confirm that cannabinoids normalize the tempo of many other neurotransmission systems.) The political implications are equally obvious. Legalizing herbal cannabis would devastate the pharmaceutical manufacturers and allied corporations in the chemicals, oil, "food," and banking sectors. Put simply, the synthetic drug makers stand to lose half their sales if and when the American people get legal access to cannabis.Pot Shots
Marijuana, the Anti-Drug
By Fred Gardner
CounterPunchThe extent to which medical cannabis users discontinue or reduce their use of pharmaceutical and over-the-counter drugs is a recurring theme in a recent survey of pro-cannabis (PC) California doctors. The drug-reduction phenomenon has obvious scientific implications. Medicating with cannabis enables people to lay off stimulants as well as sedatives -suggesting that the herb's active ingredients restore homeostasis to various bodily systems. (Lab studies confirm that cannabinoids normalize the tempo of many other neurotransmission systems.) The political implications are equally obvious. Legalizing herbal cannabis would devastate the pharmaceutical manufacturers and allied corporations in the chemicals, oil, "food," and banking sectors. Put simply, the synthetic drug makers stand to lose half their sales if and when the American people get legal access to cannabis.
In the 10 years since Proposition 215 made it legal for California doctors to approve cannabis use by patients, the PC docs did not adopt a common intake questionnaire, and, with one exception, did not collect systematic data on which pharmaceutical drugs their patients had chosen to stop taking. However, the consistency with which the doctors describe this phenomenon has a force as impressive as any slickly presented "hard" data.
This summer I surveyed 19 PC doctors who, between them, had approved and monitored cannabis use by more than 140,000 patients. Herewith some replies to a question about patients reporting reduced reliance on pharmaceuticals.
Frank Lucido, MD: "Chronic pain patients report reduced use of opioids, NSAIDs, muscle relaxants, sleeping pills. Psychiatric and insomnia patients reduce use of tranquilizers, SSRI antidepressants, and sleeping pills. Neurologic patients reduce use of opioids, muscle relaxants, NSAIDS, triptans and other migraine headache remedies." Marian Fry, MD: "Medications discontinued or reduced include Oxycontin, Norco, Percoset, Vicodin, Flexerol, Soma, Valium, SSRI antidepressants, and blood-pressure medications Norvasic and Hydrochlorothiazide. Approximately 1% of my patients report reduced reliance or discontinuation of seizure medication by substituting Cannabis for Dilantin and remaining seizure free. Many of my Glaucoma patients no longer require their Timoptic drops and are able to maintain normal pressures with the use of Cannabis. Many of my patients who have lost hope in conventional pharmaceutical treatments report enhanced health, decreased pain, decrease depression and an overall sense of well being despite chronic illness."
Helen Nunberg, MD is medical director of MediCann, a statewide chain of clinics through which 53,000 patients have received approvals. Nunberg reviewed records of 1,800 patients seen at nine clinics. "Prescription drug substitution is very significant," she writes. "51% of the 1,800 patients report using cannabis as a substitute for prescription medications; 48% report using cannabis to prevent prescription medication side effects; 67% report using cannabis to reduce dosage of prescription medication; 49% of patients using cannabis for chronic pain were previously prescribed an opioid (such as hydrocodone) by their personal physician."
Philip Denney, MD: "Cannabis allows significant decreased use or elimination of many prescription medications, particularly narcotics. Patients usually report decreases of 50% or better."
Tom O'Connell, MD: "Vicodin and other opioids; lithium; Klonopin; various sleep aids; and the whole gamut of psychotropic medications from Prozac to Xanax. I don't tell patients to stop taking anything, but I will suggest they discuss it with the prescribing doctor. I have the feeling that most don't."
Robert Sullivan, MD: "Opiates, muscle relaxants, antidepressants, hypnotics (for sleep), anxiolytics, neurontin, anti-inflammatories, anti-migraine drugs, GI meds, prednisone (for asthma, arthritis)."
William Eidelman, MD: "Opioids, sleeping pills, anxiolytics, SSRI anti-depressants."
Hanya Barth, MD: "Approximately 90% of my patients have at one time or another tried traditional medications for their symptoms and found that they produced significant side effects. With cannabis most patients report either being able to manage their symptoms without any other medications, or using less than they would ordinarily have to. It is not unusual to have patients come for a recommendation, bringing a whole bag of medications that they are taking. They might then return the following year saying that they no longer needed many of them and had cut back on many others.
"It is also true that most patients who were using alcohol to manage their symptoms or who were abusing alcohol or speed or opiates, etc. find that they can stop these drugs when they have marijuana. Many also report that they were using those drugs to manage certain symptoms such as pain or anxiety and then became addicted. This is especially true of certain populations, mainly the homeless and the mentally ill. Even cigarette smokers often state that they can substitute cannabis for nicotine.
"What amazes me overall is the efficacy and lack of side effects. It is not that the pain stops but that the mind doesn't fixate on the pain in the same way. In addition, the muscles that become tense around an area of pain can cause secondary symptoms, which then are relieved with cannabis. If someone is in pain and/or anxious, he or she often has a hard time sleeping. With cannabis, patients report that they are able to sleep better, wake up more refreshed, have less secondary depression and are able to function more efficiently the following day. Many hypnotics can only be taken at a certain time (not at 4 a.m., for example). However, having a puff of cannabis at that time will help them fall back asleep without a morning hangover."
Dr. A: "Narcotics, including heavy narcotics such as Fentanyl."
William Courtney, MD: "While the percentage of patients in my practice using cannabis for management of ADHD is small, those who have discovered its benefits are pleased that they can achieve control without having to continue to use Ritalin, etc."
Tod Mikuriya, MD: "Opioids, sedatives, non-steroidal anti-inflammatories, and SSRI anti-depressants are commonly used in smaller amounts or discontinued. These are all drugs with serious adverse effects."
Jeffrey Hergenrather, MD: "A cannabis specialist soon becomes aware of two remarkable facts. The range of conditions that patients are treating successfully with cannabis is extremely wide; and patients get relief with the use of cannabis that they cannot achieve with any other pharmaceuticals.
"The testimonies that I hear on a daily basis from people with serious medical conditions are moving and illuminating. From many people with cancer and AIDS come reports that cannabis has saved their lives by giving them an appetite, the ability to keep down their medications, and mental ease. "No other drug works like cannabis to reduce or eliminate pain without significant adverse effects. It evidently works on parts of the brain involving short-term memory and pain centers, enabling the patient to stop dwelling on pain. Cannabis helps with muscle relaxation, and it has an anti-inflammatory action. Patients with rheumatoid arthritis stabilize with fewer and less destructive flare-ups with the regular use of cannabis.
"Other rheumatic diseases similarly show remissions. Spasticity cannot be treated any more quickly or efficiently than with cannabis, and, again, without significant adverse effects.
"Patients who suffer from migraines can reduce or omit conventional medications as their headaches become less frequent and less severe.
"About half of the patients with mood disorders find that they are adequately treated with cannabis alone while others reduce their need for other pharmaceuticals. In my opinion, there is no better drug for the treatment of anxiety disorders, brain trauma and post-concussion syndrome, ADD and ADHD, obsessive compulsive disorder, and post-traumatic stress disorder.
"Patients with Crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis are stabilized, usually with comfort and weight gain, while most are able to avoid use of steroids and other potent immunomodulator drugs.
"People who were formerly dependent on alcohol, opiates, amphetamines and other addictive drugs have had their lives changed when substituting with cannabis.
"Patients with end-stage renal disease on dialysis and those with transplanted kidneys show mental ease, comfort, and lack of significant graft-versus-host incompatibility reactions in my small series. "Diabetics report slightly lower and easier-to-control blood sugar levels, yet to be studied and explained.
"Sleep patterns are typically improved, with longer and deeper sleep without any hangover or significant adverse effects.
"Many patients with multiple sclerosis report that their condition has not worsened for many years while they have been using cannabis regularly. MS and other neurodegenerative diseases share the common benefits of reduced pain and muscle spasms, improved appetite, improved mood and fewer incontinence problems. Many patients with epilepsy are adequately treated with or without the use of other anticonvulsants.
"Patients with skin conditions associated with systemic disease such as psoriasis, lupus, dermatitis herpetiformis, and eczema all report easement and less itching when using cannabis regularly.
"Airway diseases such as asthma, sleep apnea, COPD, and chronic sinusitis deserve special mention because I encourage the use of cannabis vapor or ingested forms rather than smoking to reduce airway irritation."
All these clinical reports jibe perfectly with lab studies showing that synthetic THC enables rodents to achieve pain relief with half the amount of opioids. (Under the rules of evidence established by corporate Science, rodents are considered more trustworthy witnesses than we, the people, are.)
Posted by linkadge on December 28, 2006, at 9:52:36
In reply to Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by notfred on December 28, 2006, at 4:48:07
All the power to the movement.
I wish my doctor would believe me about such things so I wouldn't be forced to take seroquel the next day which makes me feel like sh*t.
I might gain some weight instead of loosing it.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on December 28, 2006, at 11:35:39
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by linkadge on December 28, 2006, at 9:52:36
It's been around a long while as marinol of for cancer patients nausea. Love Phillipa ps sounds like the magic drug
Posted by Sebastian on December 28, 2006, at 13:10:45
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by Phillipa on December 28, 2006, at 11:35:39
When will my doctor perscribe it?
Posted by linkadge on December 28, 2006, at 14:11:25
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by Sebastian on December 28, 2006, at 13:10:45
Thats what I want to know.
Linkadge
Posted by Quintal on December 28, 2006, at 15:09:24
In reply to Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by notfred on December 28, 2006, at 4:48:07
There's no mention here about paranoia or anxiety as side effects - which is a big problem for me with cannabis. Also dry mouth and tachycardia. Many people become withdrawn and asocial with long term use and sometimes depressed. There's also the risk of cannabis triggering psychosis in susceptible people. I need to take it with a benzo to feel good and it no longer stimulates my appetite.
That said I would like to have access to medical grade cannabis with vaporizing equipment - it's supposed to give a cleaner, speedier high.
I wonder what doses other people use, and does anyone else find cannabis helpful?
Q
Posted by Declan on December 28, 2006, at 15:31:44
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by Quintal on December 28, 2006, at 15:09:24
Some drugs are best taken by the most indirect route, allowing for one's system to adapt to the changes.
Eating it is best, with careful attention to the dose. The effect for me is much better, or not nearly as bad.
I always get rapid heart rate and anxiety if I smoke it.
Posted by Quintal on December 28, 2006, at 15:48:04
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by Declan on December 28, 2006, at 15:31:44
The first time I took marijuana I ate it. I was very naive about drugs then and a guy gave me a 1/2oz block of resin as a token of appreciation for paying his bus fare when his wallet was stolen. I wasn't sure about how much to take or how to use it, so when setting fire to it failed I decided to chew the whole lump. I ended up having a massive panic attack and spent the next day at seeming to float above my body, operating it like a puppet on strings.
I guess as you say, you need to be careful about the dose if eating because it can be a long and terrifying trip if you get it wrong!
Q
Posted by linkadge on December 28, 2006, at 15:54:05
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug » Declan, posted by Quintal on December 28, 2006, at 15:48:04
The tacycarda is due to the rapid anticholinergic effect of the drug. You can reduce this by taking cholinergic supplements.
I also noticed no tachycardia on high dose fish oil with a small quantity of cannabis.
I found it very helpfull for sleep, anxiety, and mood. I had some *mild* paranoia at first, but nothing worse than what TCA antidepressants caused. Again, likely an effect of the rapid anticholinergic effect.
The tachycardia was also much less than what a TCA or effexor caused.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on December 28, 2006, at 15:55:10
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by Declan on December 28, 2006, at 15:31:44
Whats the deal with vaporizers? Do they work? Is there smoke involved? Are their risks to the lungs?
Linkadge
Posted by laima on December 28, 2006, at 16:15:39
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by linkadge on December 28, 2006, at 15:55:10
I was a true believer, but now I'm almost skeptical. Paying attention, I noticed very distinct depressed mood crashes, timed about two days after smoking, every single time, once I stopped smoking it on a regular basis. So now I don't bother. Could have been some sort of interaction, but I just don't know. And what's up with it supposedly being a risk factor for schizophrenia? I know of at least three heavy users who are not quite the same any more. That sort of spooked me, too.
Posted by Jimmyboy on December 28, 2006, at 16:28:03
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by laima on December 28, 2006, at 16:15:39
I thought it was helpful, and can say that some of the most enjoyable moments in my life were after smoking. But like some others it seemed the longer I continually did it, the more antisocial and amotivated I became.
I miss doing it too, but I decided that I wouldn;t be able to get a fair evaluation of the other crap I am taking while I am smoking weed.
JB
PS- for those who were looking at the above links about stage 4 sleep , I read an article that said that THC increased amount of time in stage 4 sleep.
Posted by Quintal on December 28, 2006, at 16:28:12
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by linkadge on December 28, 2006, at 15:55:10
>Whats the deal with vaporizers? Do they work? Is there smoke involved? Are their risks to the lungs?
Yes, there's some info here:
Posted by Declan on December 28, 2006, at 16:30:05
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug » Declan, posted by Quintal on December 28, 2006, at 15:48:04
OMG. 28g to the oz. So that's 14.
At least you survived.
Posted by Quintal on December 28, 2006, at 16:43:44
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug » Quintal, posted by Declan on December 28, 2006, at 16:30:05
Posted by blueberry1 on December 28, 2006, at 17:00:25
In reply to Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by notfred on December 28, 2006, at 4:48:07
Now that you mention it, it has been all downhill for me since stopping marijuana 1 1/2 years ago. Meds don't work anything like pot did. I was actually in pretty decent shape as a daily light smoker. The fear of getting busted, the high cost of the weed, and the unpredictable variation in qualtiy, along with guilt of being a daily smoker, led me to wean off it. It has been a very rough journey ever since. I bet if I could smoke just one night, I would know what it feels like to be normal again.
For several years I did not hang out at psychobabble. The reason? I was feeling decent. What was the reason I was feeling decent? I had a couple puffs of a joint after lunch, and then I had a couple more puffs off that same joint in the evening.
Posted by linkadge on December 28, 2006, at 17:48:38
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by blueberry1 on December 28, 2006, at 17:00:25
Well, I guess it does depend on the person. Marajuanna made me so incredably prosocial. I am very antisocial without medications. I may only leave the house once a day, and people irritate me. I don't like people in general. (nothing personal, I'd just rather be alone)
When I do smoke, which happens rarely, a lot of that just melts away. I want to be in places where people are, like the church or in a library whatever. Sometimes I just go downtown with a book and sit and read on a park bench, which is very much not like me. I also call up friends and ask if they want to watch a movie or whatever.
It may be the combination of omega-3 and marajuanna I don't know.
As far as schizophrenia goes, I don't know if anyone can say it *causes* schizohprenia. That is a very tall acusation. There are some large studies that suggest an association, and some very large studies that suggest no association.
I think one study found an association which was slight, but only in persons carrying the low acting COMT varient gene.
It was the same accusation as with tobacco. There are a large number of people with schizophrenia who smoke tobacco. That doesn't mean that tobacco causes schizophrenia. Infact some studies suggest that schizophrenics who smoke tobacco have a better functional outcome. The tobacco use too, often predates the schizophrenia.
I tend to think that people with schizophrenia probably start out with some sort of HPA axis dysregulation, and that the marajuanna ameleorates this. Antiglutacortacoids like RU-486 can be fast acting antipsychotic agents.
The disease probably progresses on its own.
Certain cannabanoids are actually under investigation for their antipsychotic activities.
I'm not saying its not possable, I'm just saying there have been a number of lies dispersed to try and discourage drug use.
Linkadge
Posted by Quintal on December 28, 2006, at 18:19:14
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by linkadge on December 28, 2006, at 17:48:38
I was already taking high dose fish oil when I started using marijuana this time and I didn't notice any difference.
The schizophrenia risk allegedly comes from the fact that marijuana alters perception in a way that tobacco doesn't - it's supposedly a hallucinogen (as is tobacco at high doses). The increased paranoia is a high trigger risk in people who have paranoid schizophrenia and it may also accelerate the decline in somebody already half way there. My schizophrenic friend hates it for this reason, and she suffered a few regressions after smoking marijuana. She now avoids it altogether. There were a few times when I was smoking heavily that I thought I was heading toward catatonic schizophrenia and backed away from it for that reason. I felt pretty good most of the time, but as with most drugs it was an illusion. All I was really doing was sitting and staring into space or thinking crazy thoughts. I have a huge pile of A4 somewhere full of my rantings. It's a little scary to look at now.
It's had a definite effect on me - I now have 'seeing in' and 'seeing as' hallucinations quite often. I 'see' faces or and hidden messages in the most common unassuming objects and it's not all hallucination because there are hidden shapes in these things.
I get very paranoid and afraid of people when I'm stoned - conversation is not exactly scintillating either.
Q
Posted by Declan on December 28, 2006, at 18:38:23
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug » linkadge, posted by Quintal on December 28, 2006, at 18:19:14
Some people should simply never touch it in any dose. Others are OK if they get the dose and administration route right.
It increases a feeling of uncertainty (in some) so that you have to think quite hard about how you feel about anything.
And of course you can't think of anything to say for the same reason.
The worst social drug I know of.OTOH I found "Extras" much improved from it. And no need to speak.
Posted by laima on December 28, 2006, at 18:47:08
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by Jimmyboy on December 28, 2006, at 16:28:03
Posted by linkadge on December 28, 2006, at 18:51:08
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug » linkadge, posted by Quintal on December 28, 2006, at 18:19:14
>The schizophrenia risk allegedly comes from the >fact that marijuana alters perception in a way >that tobacco doesn't - it's supposedly a >hallucinogen (as is tobacco at high doses). The >increased paranoia is a high trigger risk in >people who have paranoid schizophrenia and it >may also accelerate the decline in somebody >already half way there.
Schizophrenia is more than a temporary alteration of biochemical functioning. There are real, structural differences in the brain's of schizohrenic patients. Such abnormalities have never been linked to marajuanna use.
I don't think it can cause schizophrenia, but yes it is a risk to use in somebody with a mood disorder or schizophrenia.
I don't recomend getting stoned or even high. For me, a few puffs is more than enough to kill anxiety and insomnia, without getting high at all.
>It's had a definite effect on me - I now >have 'seeing in' and 'seeing as' hallucinations >quite often. I 'see' faces or and hidden >messages in the most common unassuming objects >and it's not all hallucination because there are >hidden shapes in these things.Do you have any relatives with schizophrenia or schizophrenic like illnesses? I have had residual effects from prescription drugs. For instance, lithium + SSRI's was very trippy. I thought the railway crossing barriers were swords of giant soldiers.
>I get very paranoid and afraid of people when >I'm stoned - conversation is not exactly >scintillating either.
I'm not trying to dismiss your case at all. I guess I am just saying that different people have different experiences. Was your source clean? My friend smoked for years and had a single psychotic break when he unwittingly smoked some laced with PCP.
Thats kinda why I encourage the medicinal use of it. At least people know then what they are getting.
Linkadge
Posted by laima on December 28, 2006, at 18:53:00
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by linkadge on December 28, 2006, at 17:48:38
I'm not so sure that any careful scientists are saying marijuana (or anything else) without any doubt "causes" schizophrenia, but there is an awful lot of association between pot and psychosis and schizophrenia. But I understand that one would also need to be genetically predisposed to such conditions, or perhaps go absolutely nuts and over the top with the pot.As far as schizophrenia goes, I don't know if anyone can say it *causes* schizohprenia. That is a very tall acusation. There are some large studies that suggest an association, and some very large studies that suggest no association.
>
Posted by Quintal on December 28, 2006, at 18:55:23
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by blueberry1 on December 28, 2006, at 17:00:25
>The fear of getting busted, the high cost of the weed, and the unpredictable variation in qualtiy, along with guilt of being a daily smoker, led me to wean off it. It has been a very rough journey ever since. I bet if I could smoke just one night, I would know what it feels like to be normal again.
Have you tried legal herbal alternatives? My friend and I tried a herbal blend called 'Spice' and it is *very* effective. Some people here in the UK are turning away from street marijuana for the reasons you mention and also because the herbal smokes are higher quality and have fewer impurities.
Q
Posted by linkadge on December 28, 2006, at 18:58:30
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug, posted by Declan on December 28, 2006, at 18:38:23
Thats crazy. The stuff made me talk very quickly. I couldn't stop laughing. I must have got the good stuff. Like on American Beauty. I was on my knees. My stomach hurt so much from the laughter.
>It increases a feeling of uncertainty (in some) >so that you have to think quite hard about how
>you feel about anything.I can agree with that. I think thats the anticholinergic/deleriant action. Cholinergic supplements can bring you back to a recognizable place, should you get too far.
Choline Bitrate 500mg-1500mg. Also heard anecdotal reports of acetycholinsterase inhibitor huperzine being helpfull to reduce delerium should it occur.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on December 28, 2006, at 19:04:57
In reply to Re: Marijuana, the Anti-Drug » linkadge, posted by laima on December 28, 2006, at 18:53:00
I know it can make a lot of people paranoid, so so can other abused deleriants like benydryl, cogentin etc. But the paranoia usually goes away when the drug wears off.
I think that schizophrenics smoke it to help with negative symtpoms, and that the "side effect" of paranoia has led some researchers to conclude that it causes schizophrenia.
Linkadge
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