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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Declan on September 12, 2006, at 17:01:08
In reply to Re: 18 months on tianeptine (Stablon) » Declan, posted by ed_uk on September 12, 2006, at 14:40:03
Hi Ed
I take 12.5mg 3 or 4 times a day. Had insomnia from (I assume) the deprenyl last night, unless it was the double vodka or the alpha lipoic acid.
Declan
Posted by Declan on September 12, 2006, at 17:46:40
In reply to Re: 18 months on tianeptine (Stablon), posted by Declan on September 12, 2006, at 17:01:08
Onme of the descriptions of tianeptine is as a psychotonic.
Posted by myblusky on December 12, 2006, at 14:34:51
In reply to Re: 18 months on tianeptine (Stablon), posted by sukarno on September 11, 2006, at 3:47:26
Sukarno - Thank you for continuing to post about your experience on Stablon. I really appreciate you taking the time 18 months later to post about your positive experience with this medication.
I am very interested in Stablon because so far, the side effects from SSRI's and Wellbutrin have been pretty bad. I'm trying Prozac again, but if the fatigue and headaches don't go away, I will order the Stablon from overseas (I'm in the US and of course it isn't approved here).
Thank you again for all of the detailed posts.
Posted by traceytastsgr8 on May 21, 2007, at 23:51:28
In reply to Re: 18 months on tianeptine (Stablon), posted by myblusky on December 12, 2006, at 14:34:51
i am going to start on Stablon next week after years of failed rx. From reading previous posts, zoloft and paxil for example are horrific to use, you should note that in a bi polar situation maybe that is hurting your progress. they make you manic. help me with your experience balance this.with stablon, and a benzo i would guess. this is my last try. i am in nyc. i am afraid of weight gain.
t
Posted by sukarno on May 22, 2007, at 4:30:18
In reply to Re: 18 months on tianeptine (Stablon), posted by traceytastsgr8 on May 21, 2007, at 23:51:28
Good luck with Stablon. It is a mild antidepressant relative to the SSRIs and works in a different way, so I think it shouldn't cause mania. It just keeps me (mostly) out of depression, whereas Prozac and its clones (Paxil, Celexa, Zoloft) made me very nervous, wired, and agitated...borderline paranoid.
Not sure about weight gain, but that isn't a listed side effect and I've never gained any weight on it. :-) Let us know how it goes.Paul
Posted by Ayuma on August 29, 2007, at 20:32:22
In reply to Tianeptine tolerance, depression returns, posted by sukarno on July 9, 2005, at 11:31:28
I just ordered Stablon on the net. 120 tablets for 100 U.S. Dollars. If/When I receive it in the mail I plan to take it Not daily. I personally do not accept the idea of having to take a drug daily (i.e. being enslaved by the pill.) I'm not willing to be brainwashed by anything as I did with Prozac. Due to my past (bad!) experience with Prozac, I'll proceed with Extreme Caution when it comes to serotonegic drugs. Bascially I take 5-htp or St. John's Wort (all these herbs made me feel lazy and even estrogenic.).
Posted by Ayuma on August 29, 2007, at 20:37:16
In reply to Tianeptine tolerance, depression returns, posted by sukarno on July 9, 2005, at 11:31:28
I just ordered Stablon on the net. 120 tablets for 100 U.S. Dollars. If/When I receive it in the mail I plan to take it Not daily. I personally do not accept the idea of having to take a drug daily (i.e. being enslaved by the pill.) I'm not willing to be brainwashed by anything as I did with Prozac. Due to my past (bad!) experience with Prozac, I'll proceed with Extreme Caution when it comes to serotonegic drugs. Bascially I take 5-htp or St. John's Wort (all these herbs made me feel lazy and even estrogenic.).
Posted by linkadge on September 1, 2007, at 17:53:35
In reply to Tianeptine Not Daily, posted by Ayuma on August 29, 2007, at 20:37:16
What do you mean by the herbs make you feel estrogenic?
I am not doubting what you say, just curious.
Linkadge
Posted by sukarno on September 2, 2007, at 4:21:37
In reply to Re: Tianeptine Not Daily, posted by linkadge on September 1, 2007, at 17:53:35
The half-life of tianeptine is only 2.5 hours. This is very short and according to a psychiatrist I know, taking it less than 3 times a day wouldn't be advisable as it would lack efficacy.
As far as I know, all antidepressants, with the exception of fluoxetine (Prozac), must be taken daily, with the short-acting compounds being taken more than once a day.
Posted by tammytab on September 25, 2007, at 1:55:27
In reply to Re: 18 months on tianeptine (Stablon), posted by sukarno on May 22, 2007, at 4:30:18
I tried Stablon for a few weeks. I definitely noticed some positive effects right away - more energy yet an overall sense of calm, no more insomnia, brightened mood. However, a few weeks into taking it (3x day) I had a couple of severe crashes where I fell into some of the deepest pits of depression I have ever experienced. It's tough to say whether or not that was the Stablon or my situation. I'm now on Wellbutrin XL and it's kept me completely level, but I don't have the sense of peace that came with the Stablon. I'm very interested in trying the two together but am not sure how productive that would be. If anyone has experience with that please post it!
Posted by Ayuma on September 25, 2007, at 18:20:09
In reply to Re: Tianeptine Not Daily, posted by linkadge on September 1, 2007, at 17:53:35
Posted by Ayuma on September 25, 2007, at 20:07:54
In reply to Re: Tianeptine Not Daily, posted by sukarno on September 2, 2007, at 4:21:37
> The half-life of tianeptine is only 2.5 hours. This is very short and according to a psychiatrist I know, taking it less than 3 times a day wouldn't be advisable as it would lack efficacy.
>
> As far as I know, all antidepressants, with the exception of fluoxetine (Prozac), must be taken daily, with the short-acting compounds being taken more than once a day.
>
>Thanks a lot for providing the info. I've been put on (by myself)* Tianeptine 3 weeks ago. So today it's my third-week completion. About every other day I also take 100 mg of Modafinil for better motivation and energy. I then would add caffeine for my exercise and weight lifting sessions about 3~4 times a week and Stablon really seems to help prevent the terrible "crash" that usually comes during or after an intense/heavy free-weight workout plus some sugary post-wk drinks afterwards. Basically stablon seems to act like a stimulant that allows me to experience a very euphoric workout at the gym while listening to my I-Pod the music sounded amazing giving better motivation and intensity instead of giving up and leaving the fitness centre sooner. From within past three weeks I started with 2 tabs a day, and then a few days later I make it up to 3 tablets a day ... and then one morning I woke up with a not-so-pleasant feeling of over-stimulantion (I.e rapid heartbeat, "fight or flight" getting stucks) by Stablon so I cut it back to 2 a day. And then, just 3 to 4 days ago I suddenly experience a "crash" I was terribly depressed so I immediately up the dosage to 4 to 6 tablets a day and then I am perfectly fine again. Overall it seems to be somewhat of a difficult drug to work with, but certainly not impossible , either. (It's nothing - Nothing compared to the last generation of SSRIs that came with a vast array of unbearable side effects and addiction or withdrawal symptoms, etc..) It just takes patience and time, and - my long term dosages are not guaranteed since locally I can't find a physician who even knows what it is too new. No insurance of any kind but I find it isn't difficult to purchase it in bulk with fairly cheap price online, that is - so long you're lucky enough that you don't run into problem with the local Customs. (Stablon isn't a controlled substance so far.)
Posted by Ayuma on September 29, 2007, at 23:46:34
In reply to Re: Tianeptine Not Daily, posted by linkadge on September 1, 2007, at 17:53:35
I mean that some herbs such as St. John's Wort or the nutrient 5-htp or soy amongst others they all raises serotonin in the brain and as a result of more serotonin it also means more Estrogen in our bodies that causes side effects such as fatigue haziness lack of motivation aggressiveness, etc. Male (and sometimes, female) bodybuilders try to avoid anything that raise estrogen ... therefore, their better solution would be anti-depression through adrenaline or dopamine means. A good one is cocaine, but since in reality nobody use it anymore we all turn to Zyban or the newer generation of anti-depressants that raise male hormone instead of turning one into a wuss or sis. (I mean for a MALE !!!!!!!!! )
> What do you mean by the herbs make you feel estrogenic?
>
> I am not doubting what you say, just curious.
>
> Linkadge
Posted by sukarno on September 30, 2007, at 15:26:28
In reply to Re: Tianeptine Not Daily (follow up for linkadge), posted by Ayuma on September 29, 2007, at 23:46:34
I just did some googling and it appears that estrogen can increase serotonin levels, but I'm not sure if serotonin can raise estrogen. I guess it's possible.
There is a large group of people who suffer from post-SSRI sexual dysfunction that persists long after the SSRI was discontinued. In many of these cases, the hormone testosterone was low and their doctor prescribed them testosterone.
I feel amotivational, fatigued and a bit emotional at times. I also have almost no libido whatsoever. I'm not on SSRIs though and this has been going on long before I began taking Stablon in March/April 2005.
Dopaminergic drugs would be interesting. I know they help libido, energy, motivation and depression in many cases. The sad thing is that pharmaceutical companies keep developing serotonergic drugs and one of the few good dopaminergic drugs, namely amineptine, was removed from the market in 1999.
I've heard that pramipexole (Mirapex) has been useful when used off-label for treatment-resistant depression. It is a dopamine agonist (D2/D3 receptor agonist).
Posted by fuchsia on October 1, 2007, at 8:08:09
In reply to Re: Tianeptine Not Daily (follow up for linkadge), posted by Ayuma on September 29, 2007, at 23:46:34
>t of more serotonin it also means more Estrogen in our bodies that causes side effects such as fatigue haziness lack of motivation aggressiveness, etc. Male (and sometimes, female) bodybuilders try to avoid anything that raise estrogen ...
I am a female and when my oestrogen is higher I feel the opposite of what you describe ie I am more energetic, more motivated and in a better mood. When it falls I get the symptoms that you describe that you get when the oestrogen is increasing.
fuchsia
Posted by Ayuma on October 2, 2007, at 14:42:01
In reply to Tianeptine good for panic disorder?, posted by sukarno on March 23, 2005, at 5:50:47
I've had panic attacks while on Stablon. only that it seemed somewhat less severe. I didn't take stablon for panic attacks, because, I was already able to deal with them through a special technique, called "One Move", that can really only be learn by working with professionals (who's trained for such rare technique.) The very first time I applied "One Move" into my anxiety attack experience it blew my mind totally, because it is the first time that I don't have to take a drug that it can immediately trick my brain (anytime, anywhere - unnoticed by others) into releasing massive amount of naturally occurring relaxing chemicals that resemble that of an effective dosage of Alprozolam (Xanax). Ever since I'm forever freed from panic attacks and I'm able to consume massive amount of coffee/caffeine or stimulant and still never afraid of another panic attack again ... if anything I'm expecting or haunting one down the road (you have to want one to come your way daily to keep one from coming back, after applying One Move) I have been housebound for years but as a result of finally-free (due to One Move taught by my utmost updated therapist) I plan to travel all over the world in the near future (but won't take meds with me in case there might be customs problems.)
Posted by Maria3667 on October 7, 2007, at 14:29:17
In reply to Re: Tianeptine good for panic disorder?, posted by Ayuma on October 2, 2007, at 14:42:01
Just the opposite I guess! Tianeptine GAVE me panic disorder, if anything.
Yes great for depression, but I'd steer well clear if you already have panic/anxiety attacks...Just my 2 cents.
Maria
> I've had panic attacks while on Stablon. only that it seemed somewhat less severe. I didn't take stablon for panic attacks, because, I was already able to deal with them through a special technique, called "One Move", that can really only be learn by working with professionals (who's trained for such rare technique.) The very first time I applied "One Move" into my anxiety attack experience it blew my mind totally, because it is the first time that I don't have to take a drug that it can immediately trick my brain (anytime, anywhere - unnoticed by others) into releasing massive amount of naturally occurring relaxing chemicals that resemble that of an effective dosage of Alprozolam (Xanax). Ever since I'm forever freed from panic attacks and I'm able to consume massive amount of coffee/caffeine or stimulant and still never afraid of another panic attack again ... if anything I'm expecting or haunting one down the road (you have to want one to come your way daily to keep one from coming back, after applying One Move) I have been housebound for years but as a result of finally-free (due to One Move taught by my utmost updated therapist) I plan to travel all over the world in the near future (but won't take meds with me in case there might be customs problems.)
Posted by Ayuma on October 8, 2007, at 14:20:54
In reply to Re: Tianeptine good for panic disorder? » Ayuma, posted by Maria3667 on October 7, 2007, at 14:29:17
Wow. That's interesting. In my case Stablon didn't seem to help with depression in the long run (unless I keep up the dosages every now and then impossible because I have very limited supply.) So I've finally decided I really can't count on Stablon ALONE to fight my depressed feelings or anxious, etc. I have to have back up plans. And my back-ups are Neurontin (Gabapentin) in occasional limited dosage as well as maybe some other herbs and natural ingredients, and then, meditation (skills). But, I've once tried to combine Provigil (Modafinil), Stablon (Tianeptine) as well as Neurontin (Gabapentin) 1200 mg, plus a can of extremely potent, barely legal energy drink off the market - ALL AT ONCE with very euphoric effects. I'd end up having a nutty ride although I could control myself if I really wanted to such as working/driving/socializing, etc. It was a bit too much adrenaline for me to handle and I wouldn't recommend anyone else who are not experienced with potent stims. - it really weren't that pleasant after all - in some ways - because Neurontin is a mild-tranqulizer that also gives extra Adrenaline boost to the user. (so is Stablon.) Too much adrenaline can be a very torturing feeling deep within.
> Just the opposite I guess! Tianeptine GAVE me panic disorder, if anything.
> Yes great for depression, but I'd steer well clear if you already have panic/anxiety attacks...
>
> Just my 2 cents.
> Maria
Posted by Maria3667 on October 8, 2007, at 14:39:57
In reply to Re: Tianeptine good for panic disorder (+ adrenal?, posted by Ayuma on October 8, 2007, at 14:20:54
Ayuma,
Yes interesting!
It just goes to show how very individual everyone's neurochemistry is.
In order to find out what's gone wrong with the circuitry, I suppose you have to discover which neurotransmitter is out of whack for you...
For me, it's definately not serotonine, because everytime I up that, I go beserk (sp?) with fear.
After MUCH MUCHOS MULTIDOS trial & error, I've come to the conclusion I probably need a Norepinephrine (NE) downplayer. Problem is, they don't have one drug that solely plays on this receptor. That's why I'm awaiting Gepirone with great anticipation (only a bit worried the influence of dual effect on the serotonine receptor)...But wouldn't you also want to clean the slate as much as possible? All these combinations, upping this, lowering that, confuse me. In the end, it's difficult to tell which pill is responsible for which result...
May be I'm hoping for ONE magic bullet which will never come. H'mmmm, in Star Trek this whole mindbogling thing was solved with just 1 single jab in the neck, if I remember correctly, for captain Janeway & her crew... If they can do it, so should we!
> Wow. That's interesting. In my case Stablon didn't seem to help with depression in the long run (unless I keep up the dosages every now and then impossible because I have very limited supply.) So I've finally decided I really can't count on Stablon ALONE to fight my depressed feelings or anxious, etc. I have to have back up plans. And my back-ups are Neurontin (Gabapentin) in occasional limited dosage as well as maybe some other herbs and natural ingredients, and then, meditation (skills). But, I've once tried to combine Provigil (Modafinil), Stablon (Tianeptine) as well as Neurontin (Gabapentin) 1200 mg, plus a can of extremely potent, barely legal energy drink off the market - ALL AT ONCE with very euphoric effects. I'd end up having a nutty ride although I could control myself if I really wanted to such as working/driving/socializing, etc. It was a bit too much adrenaline for me to handle and I wouldn't recommend anyone else who are not experienced with potent stims. - it really weren't that pleasant after all - in some ways - because Neurontin is a mild-tranqulizer that also gives extra Adrenaline boost to the user. (so is Stablon.) Too much adrenaline can be a very torturing feeling deep within.
>
>
>
> > Just the opposite I guess! Tianeptine GAVE me panic disorder, if anything.
> > Yes great for depression, but I'd steer well clear if you already have panic/anxiety attacks...
> >
> > Just my 2 cents.
> > Maria
>
Posted by mike_robertz on November 11, 2007, at 7:51:38
In reply to Re: Tianeptine good for panic disorder (+ adrenal? » Ayuma, posted by Maria3667 on October 8, 2007, at 14:39:57
Has anyone tried stablon for asthma ? I have been taking one 12.5mg tablet a day for 10 days with mixed results although overall my asthma seems to have improved
Unfortunately my insomnia seems to have got worse - has anyone else found this as a side effect?
mike
Posted by Sigismund on November 11, 2007, at 12:55:55
In reply to Re: Tianeptine and asthma, posted by mike_robertz on November 11, 2007, at 7:51:38
So you take 1 tablet a day?
It's not very long acting.
Perhaps you could try taking it first thing in the morning?
ATM I am splitting mine and taking one and a half or two a day.
I have never taken mine near bedtime. Normally my last dose is in the afternoon.
It's been sleep neutral for me (I think).
Posted by sukarno on November 12, 2007, at 7:40:17
In reply to Re: Tianeptine and asthma, posted by mike_robertz on November 11, 2007, at 7:51:38
Hi Mike. :)
Well, I began taking tianeptine for anxiety and depression, but I also have asthma and I believe it has reduced the frequency of my attacks. That said, if I am exposed to a potent allergen, I'll still have asthmatic symptoms.
You can try taking 1/2 tablet twice a day, with the last dose no later than the afternoon. You can gradually increase the dose to the recommended 3 times a day regimen or as per your doctor's orders.
Please keep us updated on your progress and post here again in a week or so. I'd like to see how your asthma is doing then. Hopefully it will improve even more.
I'm still taking four tablets a day and have found that in the long term it has no negative effects on my sleep. I can take it at bedtime and have no problems. Rarely it can make me feel slightly drowsy, although I wouldn't say it is sedating. I'll take one and then feel like taking a nap. I then wake up feeling refreshed.
If I increase the dosage, then certainly I'll wake up in the middle of the night unable to return to sleep. That's just a temporary side effect that should resolve in a week or two as your body adjusts.
Good luck.Paul
Posted by kaleidoscope on November 12, 2007, at 15:36:43
In reply to Re: Tianeptine and asthma, posted by sukarno on November 12, 2007, at 7:40:17
Hi Paul, glad to hear you're doing well!
Posted by sukarno on November 13, 2007, at 5:51:10
In reply to Re: Tianeptine and asthma » sukarno, posted by kaleidoscope on November 12, 2007, at 15:36:43
Hi there! :-)
I am feeling better, but I wish I could find an antidepressant that would make me feel like I did when I was on imipramine sans the side effects. Stablon was designed to help depressive illness but it seems that it isn't as "strong" as imipramine was. I remember feeling good all the time on imipramine, but it was loaded with side effects with cardiovascular toxicity prevailing as my chief complaint.
Prior to Stablon, I'd say (on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the worst) my depression was an 8 or 9. After being on Stablon for the long term, my depression is a 3 or 4. On imipramine it was more like a 1 or 2.
I am reluctant to try newer drugs because the clinical trials will say drug "Y" or "Z", for example, are generally well-tolerated and safe, but in post-marketing reports there will usually be more side effects listed, or even toxic, allergic and fatal reactions. Remember how this happened with the weight loss drugs? They were said to be safe in the beginning, but then came in reports of heart valve problems, some of which were fatal. Then there is nefazodone (Serzone) which injured or killed quite a few people. As a result, I'm very scared to try anything new.
However, I wish there was something newer that is safe like Stablon, but helps depression a bit more... Just enough to keep me feeling well most of the time. Right now I feel below par, but not normal. That's better than feeling anhedonic or melancholic and in the depths of major depression, but my quality of life isn't where I'd like it to be.
Stablon is a move in the right direction and it has been on the market since 1988, so that's almost 20 years. I suppose one could say it's tried and true.
Let's hope something a bit better will come along! :-)
It could be that I only need a higher dose of Stablon, but my finances prohibit doing so.
How is your regimen coming along?
Posted by kaleidoscope on November 13, 2007, at 14:27:01
In reply to Re: Tianeptine and asthma, posted by sukarno on November 13, 2007, at 5:51:10
Hi Paul,
Nothing much has changed for me!
I'm sorry tianeptine isn't working as well as you need it to. How long is it since you took any of the other tricyclics?
Ed
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