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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Donna Louise on May 5, 2006, at 8:37:17
In reply to Re: EMSAM - First Day, posted by lymom3 on May 5, 2006, at 8:23:40
> Got in a walk yesterday. I did find this morning that removing that patch hurts. I will make sure I put them in an area where I have tougher skin and it won't sting so much. It's day 2 and I'm at work an hour early and am actually working...
I keep hitting the wrong buttons. Ignore that nm post that I just sent...
What I was trying to ask was where are you putting the patch that it is sticking so well for you. We are having opposite problems if you want to call it a problem. An issue. That is better. Certainly is not a problem like all the others in the past!Donna
Posted by lymom3 on May 5, 2006, at 8:42:56
In reply to Re: EMSAM - First Day » lymom3, posted by Donna Louise on May 5, 2006, at 8:37:17
Yesterday I put it on my breastbone above my chest. Can't do that all the time but I was wearing a high necked sweater. It stuck really well...
I moved it to my arm today and so far so good. I did waste one patch yesterday by not washing the area first like I was supposed to. That did not stick at all and I had to toss it (I am on free samples still...If I was paying for those puppies right now that would have been a different story).
Posted by Donna Louise on May 5, 2006, at 9:43:02
In reply to Re: EMSAM - First Day, posted by lymom3 on May 5, 2006, at 8:42:56
> Yesterday I put it on my breastbone above my chest. Can't do that all the time but I was wearing a high necked sweater. It stuck really well...
>
> I moved it to my arm today and so far so good. I did waste one patch yesterday by not washing the area first like I was supposed to. That did not stick at all and I had to toss it (I am on free samples still...If I was paying for those puppies right now that would have been a different story).I will try that tomorrow. I tried it on the chest but to one side and I think my skin bends around and wrinkles up too much there. Ugh. But flat on the breastbone may do it. I will try there tomorrow. The one I put on my arm didn't stick but a few hours.
Posted by lymom3 on May 5, 2006, at 22:14:26
In reply to EMSAM - First Day, posted by RobertDavid on April 8, 2006, at 11:15:36
Anybody have an suggestions from docs or internet research what I could maybe put on the rashes that the patches leave behind? The red blotches aren't going to be enough to make me quit, but I'm like for them to not look so red.
Posted by egas on May 5, 2006, at 22:20:16
In reply to Rash, posted by lymom3 on May 5, 2006, at 22:14:26
Per my doctor: You can put Benedryl cream over the patch to help the rash, and or after you move the patch...hope it works!
> Anybody have an suggestions from docs or internet research what I could maybe put on the rashes that the patches leave behind? The red blotches aren't going to be enough to make me quit, but I'm like for them to not look so red.
Posted by egas on May 5, 2006, at 22:31:00
In reply to Re: EMSAM-egas, posted by tgo on May 1, 2006, at 18:40:29
Thanks very much for the other sites and your
words...I would do anything to be finished coming off this patch already and be back on
Remeron...because I was not paralyzed with
anxiety and panic...I wish you and everyone
health....I may have found a chinese doctor
to help me....MAYBE....thanks again!
> Egas dear, please don't give up. I know it is very discouraging to try a new med that you really hope will finally be the one that will work for you and then it doesn't end up helping. I'm sure we've all been in that position before and understand how it feels to feel like there is no hope left.
>
> Please understand that is the depression that is making you feel this way. You are meant to be here. Life is a learning experience. We learn and grow from everything we go through and it is often very hard, but not more than we can handle.
>
> There is always hope. There is much money to be made by these drug companies and consequently researchers are working everyday to come up with new drug treatments for depression and anxiety. They've got to get it right one of these times and it's too big of a market to be ignored. New drugs are always coming to market. Just hang in there.
>
> You mentioned you have a lung condition. Please take a look at these two sites. I think it might be helpful.
>
> http://curezone.com/forums/m.asp?f=119&i=1892
> http://curezone.com/blogs/m.asp?f=573&i=73
>
> I hope you get to feeling better.
>
> tgo
>
Posted by egas on May 5, 2006, at 22:55:18
In reply to Re: EMSAM-egas, posted by ravenstorm on May 1, 2006, at 9:34:40
Thanks for the web info and your words...my computer crashed, so was not able to even open posts until yesterday....the withdrawal
still is awful...on klonipin and restoril...drugged
but paralyzed at the same time and angry as hell that my doctor did not think of starting me
out on 1/4 or 1/2 of a patch since I NEVER need a full dose of ANYTHING as I am so senstive....i went for accupuncture for the anxiety and it helps for around 2 hours....I had
2 weeks of rtms in canada last year...zero results and had 2 ect treatments and could not tolerate the headaches...I take care of my
89 year old dad's meds, so I cannot have memory loss at this time to try again, we have
no other family.....I know you offer me hope, but being 55 sucks and never having a life, it is too late to start and I am too tired to try...I cannot remember what laughter is anymore.
I had some happiness when I had my dog years ago, hopefully if I don't get better, I will
be able to join him in the next life sooner than
later....I am sorry about your GI problem and please let me know you do well on EMSAM
when you are ready.....I pray for you and all of us....we deserve a friggin break already!!!!!!!!!
My doctor no longer takes Medicare as of May
1st, so I have no one to admit me anywhere. so now I have to look for a doctor in chicago that accepts medicare...Please take care and again, good luck!!! I do
not want to stop anyone from trying the patch, so I apologize for the negativity....all I want is
some peace in my heart for more than 1 hour
before my unbearable existence ends....> How is your withdrawal going? I know for me, I get severley suicidal while going through drug withdrawal, so please please please call and get help or go somewhere if you need to. Keep posting, we care!
>
> I know how you feel. Ensam was going to be my last chance too, as I need something to bypass the stomach due to GI problems. At this point, I am waiting to try though, as I am concerned about the after affects if it doesn't work. It takes me forever to get back anywhere near sort of functioning after going through a withdrawal. I'm not real functional now, but it is way better than I am months and months after withdrawal!
>
> THERE IS HOPE FOR YOU. At least you can take meds orally. Go to neurotransmitter.net and look at all the new drugs in phase III trials. You will be able to try one of those once they go to market.
>
> I don't have any hope until a drug called nemifitide (which is only in phase II) comes out (it also bypasses the GI tract).
>
> Have you considered ECT or rtMS?
>
> Please don't give up.
Posted by Donna Louise on May 6, 2006, at 6:19:32
In reply to Re: EMSAM-egas, posted by egas on May 5, 2006, at 22:55:18
Please, please, don't make any decisions until you are done withdrawal and back on the med that helped at least a little. Please just postpone it one day at a time. It could still be ok. I will have hope for you while you can't. I can tell, especially after you mention your dog, that you are a blessing.
Donna
Posted by lymom3 on May 6, 2006, at 6:50:43
In reply to Re: Rash, posted by egas on May 5, 2006, at 22:20:16
Thank you...I'll try that. I am on day 3 and still have 2 ugly looking red blotches from day 1 and 2. I have to go to Walgreens to donate my paycheck today anyways (pick up some prescriptions in other words) I'll pick some up then.
Posted by ravenstorm on May 6, 2006, at 8:33:33
In reply to Re: Rash, posted by lymom3 on May 6, 2006, at 6:50:43
First of all, please don't apologize for posting about your neagative experience. We all need honest feedback about how people are doing.
I have very bad withdrawals that leave me psychologically worse than before I start the drug, so it is important to me that I know that the drug does have a withdrawal syndrome so that I can weigh the risk of trying it. I don't have much of a life now, but I can be much much worse. People who don't have the withdrawals or who have withdrawals that only make them physically ill but not catastrophically mentally worse can't understand this.
Just to let you know, I also experienced pretty severe withdrawal to remeron, which you mentioned you were taking. Could you also be experiencing remeron withdrawal? Remeron has a longer half life, so you woulnd't have started having symptoms until day 8-9 at the earliest and up to two weeks at the latest. (Remeron has a variable half life in people, the half life being longer for women and shorter for men).
What other drugs have you had severe withdrawal to and how long has it lasted?
I always get suicidal during withdrawal to. I know it is hard to believe it will ever end, but please, please, please hang on.
It is a good sign that you are still searching, ie the Chinese medicine doctor. Have you ever tried any of the amino acids?
My thoughts and prayers continue to be with you.
Thank you so much for your posts.
By the way
Posted by Fischer on May 6, 2006, at 19:15:45
In reply to Re: EMSAM-Time for next refil » RobertDavid, posted by theo on May 2, 2006, at 17:21:05
Until Theo mentioned it I hadn't thought much about placement of the patch. I am on my 9th day and started feeling good after about 4 or 5 days. However, today was a bad day, I thought it was just a fluke but maybe it is because I put it on my thigh. I moved to the thighs because I am getting square red marks on my arms and chest that take a few days to fade.
I haven't had as many meltdowns since I started the patch, I really have to wait until my doctor's appointment on Thursday to evaluate it.
I had insomnia when I began the patch so I started taking ambien with the patch, I am sleeping deeper but not better.
I believe there is hope or else I would have given up a long time ago. I have had about 100 med combinations as well as ECT. I'll try anything to get a life.
Posted by Fischer on May 6, 2006, at 19:25:44
In reply to Re: egas, posted by ravenstorm on May 6, 2006, at 8:33:33
are you all still on the 6 mg patch?
Posted by Donna Louise on May 6, 2006, at 20:58:09
In reply to dosage, posted by Fischer on May 6, 2006, at 19:25:44
> are you all still on the 6 mg patch?
I am still on the 6mg but have only been wearing it, when it doesn't come off, for a week. The last two days have not been good. I have been rageful and sobbing alot. This is not the patch, this is what I am like untreated. I am afraid I am not getting enough medicine. the thigh is the only place it halfway sticks to, I am afraid to try more locations that I already have for fear I will only get a few hours out of it. I see the pdoc on Friday. Maybe she will have some samples i can waste trying different place. I am also a little over two weeks off effexor. I have always had a rebound high when first stopping a drug so I am afraid that is why I had been feeling good emotionally (even though physically sick as a person with bird flu must feel). And like always, the reprieve has passed. I was hoping EMSAM would take over in time to avoid this total relapse (I am never fully remitted in the first place) but it hasn't. Maybe tomorrow will be another day. At least these episodes aren't constant. I do have good moments too. Sorry for the disappointing news.Donna
Posted by Fischer on May 7, 2006, at 0:05:21
In reply to Re: dosage » Fischer, posted by Donna Louise on May 6, 2006, at 20:58:09
I have had the rage and the sobbing, particulary today when I put it on my thigh, not as emotional as before the patch. I just wanted to see if anyone went up to 9 yet and why they did.
Posted by tygereyes on May 7, 2006, at 0:19:59
In reply to Re: dosage, posted by Fischer on May 7, 2006, at 0:05:21
> I have had the rage and the sobbing, particulary today when I put it on my thigh, not as emotional as before the patch. I just wanted to see if anyone went up to 9 yet and why they did.
starting 9 mg on monday - no AD response on 6, have always needed high dose APs to respons.
Posted by strugglingsteve on May 7, 2006, at 1:19:50
In reply to Re: dosage, posted by tygereyes on May 7, 2006, at 0:19:59
> > I have had the rage and the sobbing, particulary today when I put it on my thigh, not as emotional as before the patch. I just wanted to see if anyone went up to 9 yet and why they did.
>
> starting 9 mg on monday - no AD response on 6, have always needed high dose APs to respons.Are you following the maoi diet now?
Posted by ravenstorm on May 7, 2006, at 8:39:38
In reply to Re: dosage, posted by strugglingsteve on May 7, 2006, at 1:19:50
Tygereyes--how can you say you didn't respond to 6mg when you haven't been on it for four weeks? Perhaps I've lost track of time, but I thought its only been a couple of weeks. And didn't you decide to stop it after the first couple of days? Or did you change your mind and keep it on? Perhaps I'm just confused, as you've been talking about Parnate, so I assumed you'd stopped the patch.
Posted by tygereyes on May 7, 2006, at 12:12:14
In reply to Re: dosage, posted by strugglingsteve on May 7, 2006, at 1:19:50
> > > I have had the rage and the sobbing, particulary today when I put it on my thigh, not as emotional as before the patch. I just wanted to see if anyone went up to 9 yet and why they did.
> >
> > starting 9 mg on monday - no AD response on 6, have always needed high dose APs to respons.
>
> Are you following the maoi diet now?No. There is limited evidence that there is any need for that, even at the higher doses. See the FDA's report with the original studies.
However, I will be very careful and only eat small amounts of cheese, etc.
Posted by tygereyes on May 7, 2006, at 12:14:54
In reply to Re: dosage, posted by ravenstorm on May 7, 2006, at 8:39:38
> Tygereyes--how can you say you didn't respond to 6mg when you haven't been on it for four weeks? Perhaps I've lost track of time, but I thought its only been a couple of weeks. And didn't you decide to stop it after the first couple of days? Or did you change your mind and keep it on? Perhaps I'm just confused, as you've been talking about Parnate, so I assumed you'd stopped the patch.
>I was originally prescribed 9 mg/24 hr. The pharmacy screwed up and I was suicidal and couldn't wait any longer so I just used the 6 mg/24 hr ones they had given me by mistake.
I was on it, then went off, then back on. My doctor wrote me a script for 9 mg since I have needed such high doses of ADs before and since I am suicidal right now. He said we couldn't wait any longer. He is afraid of what might happen if I don't exhibit an AD response soon. (Hence why I want to go back on Parnate ... immediate amphetamine-like effect)
Posted by strugglingsteve on May 7, 2006, at 17:20:53
In reply to Re: dosage, posted by tygereyes on May 7, 2006, at 12:12:14
> > > > I have had the rage and the sobbing, particulary today when I put it on my thigh, not as emotional as before the patch. I just wanted to see if anyone went up to 9 yet and why they did.
> > >
> > > starting 9 mg on monday - no AD response on 6, have always needed high dose APs to respons.
> >
> > Are you following the maoi diet now?
>
> No. There is limited evidence that there is any need for that, even at the higher doses. See the FDA's report with the original studies.
>
> However, I will be very careful and only eat small amounts of cheese, etc.
>
>So have you had any soy or teriyaki sauce yet??
Posted by tygereyes on May 7, 2006, at 17:57:04
In reply to Re: dosage » tygereyes, posted by strugglingsteve on May 7, 2006, at 17:20:53
> > > > > I have had the rage and the sobbing, particulary today when I put it on my thigh, not as emotional as before the patch. I just wanted to see if anyone went up to 9 yet and why they did.
> > > >
> > > > starting 9 mg on monday - no AD response on 6, have always needed high dose APs to respons.
> > >
> > > Are you following the maoi diet now?
> >
> > No. There is limited evidence that there is any need for that, even at the higher doses. See the FDA's report with the original studies.
> >
> > However, I will be very careful and only eat small amounts of cheese, etc.
> >
> >
>
> So have you had any soy or teriyaki sauce yet??Yes. I had tofu teriyaki two nights ago (but keep in mind I am on 6 mg right now, not 9 mg). I also had a mini-pizza with goat cheese, and a feta cheese omelet recently. No problems at all.
Read the studies. There is very limited evidence for the dietary restrictions. When I go on 9 mg, I will be more careful but even the studies are dubious with that dosage.
Posted by strugglingsteve on May 7, 2006, at 20:38:44
In reply to Re: dosage, posted by tygereyes on May 7, 2006, at 17:57:04
> > > > > > I have had the rage and the sobbing, particulary today when I put it on my thigh, not as emotional as before the patch. I just wanted to see if anyone went up to 9 yet and why they did.
> > > > >
> > > > > starting 9 mg on monday - no AD response on 6, have always needed high dose APs to respons.
> > > >
> > > > Are you following the maoi diet now?
> > >
> > > No. There is limited evidence that there is any need for that, even at the higher doses. See the FDA's report with the original studies.
> > >
> > > However, I will be very careful and only eat small amounts of cheese, etc.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > So have you had any soy or teriyaki sauce yet??
>
> Yes. I had tofu teriyaki two nights ago (but keep in mind I am on 6 mg right now, not 9 mg). I also had a mini-pizza with goat cheese, and a feta cheese omelet recently. No problems at all.
>
> Read the studies. There is very limited evidence for the dietary restrictions. When I go on 9 mg, I will be more careful but even the studies are dubious with that dosage.I am at 6 mg right now but probably will go to 9 in about 10 days if I dont get a response from 6. I am afraid of not keeping the diet as I dont want to have a stroke. The fda said restrictions on 9 and 12 as there isnt enough data, are you willing to risk a stroke??
Posted by tygereyes on May 7, 2006, at 22:03:43
In reply to Re: dosage » tygereyes, posted by strugglingsteve on May 7, 2006, at 20:38:44
> > > > > > > I have had the rage and the sobbing, particulary today when I put it on my thigh, not as emotional as before the patch. I just wanted to see if anyone went up to 9 yet and why they did.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > starting 9 mg on monday - no AD response on 6, have always needed high dose APs to respons.
> > > > >
> > > > > Are you following the maoi diet now?
> > > >
> > > > No. There is limited evidence that there is any need for that, even at the higher doses. See the FDA's report with the original studies.
> > > >
> > > > However, I will be very careful and only eat small amounts of cheese, etc.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > So have you had any soy or teriyaki sauce yet??
> >
> > Yes. I had tofu teriyaki two nights ago (but keep in mind I am on 6 mg right now, not 9 mg). I also had a mini-pizza with goat cheese, and a feta cheese omelet recently. No problems at all.
> >
> > Read the studies. There is very limited evidence for the dietary restrictions. When I go on 9 mg, I will be more careful but even the studies are dubious with that dosage.
>
> I am at 6 mg right now but probably will go to 9 in about 10 days if I dont get a response from 6. I am afraid of not keeping the diet as I dont want to have a stroke. The fda said restrictions on 9 and 12 as there isnt enough data, are you willing to risk a stroke??Have you even READ the studies where people were on 9 mg and 12 mg and showed a minimal increase in blood pressure even when eating pounds of cheese?
The FDA said "there is not enough evidence to approve the 9 mg and 12 mg patche without dietary restrictions." That does NOT mean that it is contraindicated. If you read the studies, perhaps then we can have a conversation about this matter.
Posted by strugglingsteve on May 7, 2006, at 22:43:17
In reply to Re: dosage, posted by tygereyes on May 7, 2006, at 22:03:43
> > > > > > > > I have had the rage and the sobbing, particulary today when I put it on my thigh, not as emotional as before the patch. I just wanted to see if anyone went up to 9 yet and why they did.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > starting 9 mg on monday - no AD response on 6, have always needed high dose APs to respons.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are you following the maoi diet now?
> > > > >
> > > > > No. There is limited evidence that there is any need for that, even at the higher doses. See the FDA's report with the original studies.
> > > > >
> > > > > However, I will be very careful and only eat small amounts of cheese, etc.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > So have you had any soy or teriyaki sauce yet??
> > >
> > > Yes. I had tofu teriyaki two nights ago (but keep in mind I am on 6 mg right now, not 9 mg). I also had a mini-pizza with goat cheese, and a feta cheese omelet recently. No problems at all.
> > >
> > > Read the studies. There is very limited evidence for the dietary restrictions. When I go on 9 mg, I will be more careful but even the studies are dubious with that dosage.
> >
> > I am at 6 mg right now but probably will go to 9 in about 10 days if I dont get a response from 6. I am afraid of not keeping the diet as I dont want to have a stroke. The fda said restrictions on 9 and 12 as there isnt enough data, are you willing to risk a stroke??
>
> Have you even READ the studies where people were on 9 mg and 12 mg and showed a minimal increase in blood pressure even when eating pounds of cheese?
>
> The FDA said "there is not enough evidence to approve the 9 mg and 12 mg patche without dietary restrictions." That does NOT mean that it is contraindicated. If you read the studies, perhaps then we can have a conversation about this matter.Where would I find the studies to read? I have no idea how to find them on my own. When are you going to be on 9 mg??? babblemail me if you like...
Posted by tygereyes on May 7, 2006, at 22:50:42
In reply to Re: dosage » tygereyes, posted by strugglingsteve on May 7, 2006, at 22:43:17
click on the link provided there
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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