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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 245 to 269 of 431. Go back in thread:
Posted by strugglingsteve on May 2, 2006, at 14:53:55
In reply to Re: EMSAM-Donna, posted by ravenstorm on May 2, 2006, at 8:50:06
It is 3 weeks today on the patch. Three days ago the serious suicidal depression lifted. I'd say I am mildly to moderately depressed and the agitation is a little better too. I still feel very frustrated and unmotivated but compared to last week, its better. I hope that this is the start of an upward trend. My friend said that its a slow progression upward, anyone out there thats had a response to an AD, is that true???
Posted by theo on May 2, 2006, at 17:21:05
In reply to Re: EMSAM-Time for next refil » jetcity10, posted by RobertDavid on May 1, 2006, at 1:13:54
I'm starting the patch as soon as I get my nerve up, I have had the scrip for a week!
Do you find any difference in absorbtion in placing it on your upper body versus your thigh or hip (underwear area)?
Posted by RobertDavid on May 2, 2006, at 18:24:55
In reply to Re: EMSAM-Time for next refil » RobertDavid, posted by theo on May 2, 2006, at 17:21:05
> I'm starting the patch as soon as I get my nerve up, I have had the scrip for a week!
>
> Do you find any difference in absorbtion in placing it on your upper body versus your thigh or hip (underwear area)?
I've pretty much kept the patch on my upper back, chest and arms. I like to keep it high as I like to take long hot baths at night and they say you're suppost to avoid long periods of heat exposure so by keeping it high it doesn't soak in the hot water (for long periods).On a couple of occations I placed it on my stomach, but never my legs. There are so many options to place it I really don't pay much attention to it and can't say that I've noticed much difference. The chart seems to suggest that it's fine either upper or lower body (outer thighs), but I suspect it doesn't make much difference. I just slap it on where ever I feel like it.
Since I've had such a positive response I will say I like the idea of having on my upper body as I want as much of the drug to get to my brain as possible, but that's just my little mental thing and probably doesn't matter at all. Once I put it on I give it a few good slaps to make sure it sticks well as I want the selegiline to really soak in.
I wish you the best of luck with it and I hope this info helps. Rob
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 2, 2006, at 19:57:46
In reply to Re: EMSAM-Donna, posted by ravenstorm on May 2, 2006, at 8:50:06
> Oh I tried the prozac "trick" when going of paxil, didn't work...
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding going of paxil to Psycho-Babble Withdrawal. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/wdrawl/20060412/msgs/639404.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by jetcity10 on May 2, 2006, at 21:19:31
In reply to Re: EMSAM-Time for next refil » theo, posted by RobertDavid on May 2, 2006, at 18:24:55
I have tried many of the places suggested on the instructions. I have not tried the stomach or upper back (I am afraid I couldn't reach well enough on my upper back to get a good stick, but then again I have had major injuries to both shoulders). My preferred places are bilateral upper chest followed by bilateral upper arm. At first I thought I had greater absorbtion of chest vs. upper thigh, though now I think it is pretty much the same everywhere. I would just try it multiple places and go with where it sticks. The lower back and thigh seem to be more in the way of my clothing and I am not letting those expensive patches fall off. Do whatever works for you. I started following Rob's suggestion and slap it once after putting it on. Maybe it is like a good luck charm...
> > I'm starting the patch as soon as I get my nerve up, I have had the scrip for a week!
> >
> > Do you find any difference in absorbtion in placing it on your upper body versus your thigh or hip (underwear area)?
>
>
> I've pretty much kept the patch on my upper back, chest and arms. I like to keep it high as I like to take long hot baths at night and they say you're suppost to avoid long periods of heat exposure so by keeping it high it doesn't soak in the hot water (for long periods).
>
> On a couple of occations I placed it on my stomach, but never my legs. There are so many options to place it I really don't pay much attention to it and can't say that I've noticed much difference. The chart seems to suggest that it's fine either upper or lower body (outer thighs), but I suspect it doesn't make much difference. I just slap it on where ever I feel like it.
>
> Since I've had such a positive response I will say I like the idea of having on my upper body as I want as much of the drug to get to my brain as possible, but that's just my little mental thing and probably doesn't matter at all. Once I put it on I give it a few good slaps to make sure it sticks well as I want the selegiline to really soak in.
>
> I wish you the best of luck with it and I hope this info helps. Rob
Posted by Donna Louise on May 3, 2006, at 8:03:27
In reply to Emsam at 3 weeks: a little better, posted by strugglingsteve on May 2, 2006, at 14:53:55
> It is 3 weeks today on the patch. Three days ago the serious suicidal depression lifted. I'd say I am mildly to moderately depressed and the agitation is a little better too. I still feel very frustrated and unmotivated but compared to last week, its better. I hope that this is the start of an upward trend. My friend said that its a slow progression upward, anyone out there thats had a response to an AD, is that true???
Dear Steve, that has been absolutely true in my experience. I have had what feels like more immediate relief but that is probably side effects and not the real therapeutic change. It sounds to me like you are progressing just like it is supposed to happen. That is one of the things we all complain about, it seems to take too long, we are so tired of feeling bad. But sounds to me like you have rounded a corner and it will continue to slowly improve until you will be so happy you just can't stand it! :-))) It is possible to be that happy, and so unfamiliar feeling.Donna
Posted by ttee on May 3, 2006, at 23:12:55
In reply to Re: Emsam at 3 weeks: a little better » strugglingsteve, posted by Donna Louise on May 3, 2006, at 8:03:27
If anyone wants to see a short video on EMSAM, click on this link. Brought to you by your friends at the FDA.
Posted by pederspd on May 4, 2006, at 0:03:49
In reply to Re: Emsam at 3 weeks: a little better, posted by ttee on May 3, 2006, at 23:12:55
I am finally starting Emsam tomorrow. These past two weeks of waiting have been torture. I am my psych doc's first patient on it and she is sooooo nervous. I made the mistake of saying how I had had tofu the night before my appt and she's made me wait to start! I tried to tell her that the diet restrictions don't matter on the lowest dose but she didn't care. Oh, well.
When I was on the patch during the study I saw improvement within the first week, so this time next week I expect to feel better.
Hope everyone else is doing well. Pat
Posted by RobertDavid on May 4, 2006, at 18:47:15
In reply to Starting Emsam tomorrow, posted by pederspd on May 4, 2006, at 0:03:49
Before EMSAM I was just about out of hope that any medicine would ever work for me. I'm so much more productive, I feel like doing things, going places, my concentration has improved and am generally more social (which is important as my primary disorter is Social Anxiety).
What I wonder now is if I'll continue to even feel better in the weeks ahead. A week ago I thought the same thing and indeed I feel better today than ever.
I know everyone is different and not all meds are going to work well for everyone including EMSAM. Perhaps I would have done as well on other MAOI's like Parnate or Nardil, but what I do know is this MAOI, EMSAM is really something special for me.
I have paid no attention to diet and have not had any issues. I do pay attention to drug interactions and threw out all the cold medicines I had to make sure I'd never have brain fade and accidentally take it.
I guess the bottom line is there is hope for everyone. Even if you've failed on EMSAM there's something out there that will help you and new meds will continue to come out as there's just to much money in it for the drug companies. If you're having trouble don't give up hope.
Best of luck to everyone EMSAMer or not. Rob
Posted by lymom3 on May 4, 2006, at 20:32:43
In reply to EMSAM - First Day, posted by RobertDavid on April 8, 2006, at 11:15:36
Day one for me...just came back from a walk. Now it was only 1/2 hour and only 2 miles, but that's more than I've done for months...here's hoping that it continues tomorrow.
Posted by egas on May 4, 2006, at 22:43:33
In reply to EMSAM - 28th day, posted by RobertDavid on May 4, 2006, at 18:47:15
I am so glad for you...I have had to try and taper down the patch to come off by cutting it in half. When my doctor told me to take it off for a couple days all the side effects got worse. I had the worse case of panic and anxiety and insomnia on it, and coming off is from what I hear like major addiction withdrawal...chills, fever, nausea, worse panic and anxiety...Next week will be 4 weeks since I started...this has been the worst month of my life, and no sleep for most of the nights, almost collapsed from exhaustion..sorry but I must post this possibility and wish all of you the best. This is closest I have ever come to death from depression.....this patch
is not for me..I have NEVER had panic or
anxiety in my entire life until I put the patch on.
I could never stay on the other MAOI'S because of my blood pressure going too low,
but they too, were awful...I am through with all these drugs, and am going to a Chinese herbalist..I am 55 and have never had a life
without depression, and probably never will.
The best to all on EMSAM,,,,hopefully without
these horrible side effects. I have just lost
another month of my horrible existence. I give up, I cannot get out of bed or my home or even
pay my bills...I always functioned before I put
on this dam patch.> Before EMSAM I was just about out of hope that any medicine would ever work for me. I'm so much more productive, I feel like doing things, going places, my concentration has improved and am generally more social (which is important as my primary disorter is Social Anxiety).
>
> What I wonder now is if I'll continue to even feel better in the weeks ahead. A week ago I thought the same thing and indeed I feel better today than ever.
>
> I know everyone is different and not all meds are going to work well for everyone including EMSAM. Perhaps I would have done as well on other MAOI's like Parnate or Nardil, but what I do know is this MAOI, EMSAM is really something special for me.
>
> I have paid no attention to diet and have not had any issues. I do pay attention to drug interactions and threw out all the cold medicines I had to make sure I'd never have brain fade and accidentally take it.
>
> I guess the bottom line is there is hope for everyone. Even if you've failed on EMSAM there's something out there that will help you and new meds will continue to come out as there's just to much money in it for the drug companies. If you're having trouble don't give up hope.
>
> Best of luck to everyone EMSAMer or not. Rob
Posted by lymom3 on May 5, 2006, at 8:23:40
In reply to EMSAM - First Day, posted by RobertDavid on April 8, 2006, at 11:15:36
Got in a walk yesterday. I did find this morning that removing that patch hurts. I will make sure I put them in an area where I have tougher skin and it won't sting so much. It's day 2 and I'm at work an hour early and am actually working...
Posted by Donna Louise on May 5, 2006, at 8:37:17
In reply to Re: EMSAM - First Day, posted by lymom3 on May 5, 2006, at 8:23:40
> Got in a walk yesterday. I did find this morning that removing that patch hurts. I will make sure I put them in an area where I have tougher skin and it won't sting so much. It's day 2 and I'm at work an hour early and am actually working...
I keep hitting the wrong buttons. Ignore that nm post that I just sent...
What I was trying to ask was where are you putting the patch that it is sticking so well for you. We are having opposite problems if you want to call it a problem. An issue. That is better. Certainly is not a problem like all the others in the past!Donna
Posted by lymom3 on May 5, 2006, at 8:42:56
In reply to Re: EMSAM - First Day » lymom3, posted by Donna Louise on May 5, 2006, at 8:37:17
Yesterday I put it on my breastbone above my chest. Can't do that all the time but I was wearing a high necked sweater. It stuck really well...
I moved it to my arm today and so far so good. I did waste one patch yesterday by not washing the area first like I was supposed to. That did not stick at all and I had to toss it (I am on free samples still...If I was paying for those puppies right now that would have been a different story).
Posted by Donna Louise on May 5, 2006, at 9:43:02
In reply to Re: EMSAM - First Day, posted by lymom3 on May 5, 2006, at 8:42:56
> Yesterday I put it on my breastbone above my chest. Can't do that all the time but I was wearing a high necked sweater. It stuck really well...
>
> I moved it to my arm today and so far so good. I did waste one patch yesterday by not washing the area first like I was supposed to. That did not stick at all and I had to toss it (I am on free samples still...If I was paying for those puppies right now that would have been a different story).I will try that tomorrow. I tried it on the chest but to one side and I think my skin bends around and wrinkles up too much there. Ugh. But flat on the breastbone may do it. I will try there tomorrow. The one I put on my arm didn't stick but a few hours.
Posted by lymom3 on May 5, 2006, at 22:14:26
In reply to EMSAM - First Day, posted by RobertDavid on April 8, 2006, at 11:15:36
Anybody have an suggestions from docs or internet research what I could maybe put on the rashes that the patches leave behind? The red blotches aren't going to be enough to make me quit, but I'm like for them to not look so red.
Posted by egas on May 5, 2006, at 22:20:16
In reply to Rash, posted by lymom3 on May 5, 2006, at 22:14:26
Per my doctor: You can put Benedryl cream over the patch to help the rash, and or after you move the patch...hope it works!
> Anybody have an suggestions from docs or internet research what I could maybe put on the rashes that the patches leave behind? The red blotches aren't going to be enough to make me quit, but I'm like for them to not look so red.
Posted by egas on May 5, 2006, at 22:31:00
In reply to Re: EMSAM-egas, posted by tgo on May 1, 2006, at 18:40:29
Thanks very much for the other sites and your
words...I would do anything to be finished coming off this patch already and be back on
Remeron...because I was not paralyzed with
anxiety and panic...I wish you and everyone
health....I may have found a chinese doctor
to help me....MAYBE....thanks again!
> Egas dear, please don't give up. I know it is very discouraging to try a new med that you really hope will finally be the one that will work for you and then it doesn't end up helping. I'm sure we've all been in that position before and understand how it feels to feel like there is no hope left.
>
> Please understand that is the depression that is making you feel this way. You are meant to be here. Life is a learning experience. We learn and grow from everything we go through and it is often very hard, but not more than we can handle.
>
> There is always hope. There is much money to be made by these drug companies and consequently researchers are working everyday to come up with new drug treatments for depression and anxiety. They've got to get it right one of these times and it's too big of a market to be ignored. New drugs are always coming to market. Just hang in there.
>
> You mentioned you have a lung condition. Please take a look at these two sites. I think it might be helpful.
>
> http://curezone.com/forums/m.asp?f=119&i=1892
> http://curezone.com/blogs/m.asp?f=573&i=73
>
> I hope you get to feeling better.
>
> tgo
>
Posted by egas on May 5, 2006, at 22:55:18
In reply to Re: EMSAM-egas, posted by ravenstorm on May 1, 2006, at 9:34:40
Thanks for the web info and your words...my computer crashed, so was not able to even open posts until yesterday....the withdrawal
still is awful...on klonipin and restoril...drugged
but paralyzed at the same time and angry as hell that my doctor did not think of starting me
out on 1/4 or 1/2 of a patch since I NEVER need a full dose of ANYTHING as I am so senstive....i went for accupuncture for the anxiety and it helps for around 2 hours....I had
2 weeks of rtms in canada last year...zero results and had 2 ect treatments and could not tolerate the headaches...I take care of my
89 year old dad's meds, so I cannot have memory loss at this time to try again, we have
no other family.....I know you offer me hope, but being 55 sucks and never having a life, it is too late to start and I am too tired to try...I cannot remember what laughter is anymore.
I had some happiness when I had my dog years ago, hopefully if I don't get better, I will
be able to join him in the next life sooner than
later....I am sorry about your GI problem and please let me know you do well on EMSAM
when you are ready.....I pray for you and all of us....we deserve a friggin break already!!!!!!!!!
My doctor no longer takes Medicare as of May
1st, so I have no one to admit me anywhere. so now I have to look for a doctor in chicago that accepts medicare...Please take care and again, good luck!!! I do
not want to stop anyone from trying the patch, so I apologize for the negativity....all I want is
some peace in my heart for more than 1 hour
before my unbearable existence ends....> How is your withdrawal going? I know for me, I get severley suicidal while going through drug withdrawal, so please please please call and get help or go somewhere if you need to. Keep posting, we care!
>
> I know how you feel. Ensam was going to be my last chance too, as I need something to bypass the stomach due to GI problems. At this point, I am waiting to try though, as I am concerned about the after affects if it doesn't work. It takes me forever to get back anywhere near sort of functioning after going through a withdrawal. I'm not real functional now, but it is way better than I am months and months after withdrawal!
>
> THERE IS HOPE FOR YOU. At least you can take meds orally. Go to neurotransmitter.net and look at all the new drugs in phase III trials. You will be able to try one of those once they go to market.
>
> I don't have any hope until a drug called nemifitide (which is only in phase II) comes out (it also bypasses the GI tract).
>
> Have you considered ECT or rtMS?
>
> Please don't give up.
Posted by Donna Louise on May 6, 2006, at 6:19:32
In reply to Re: EMSAM-egas, posted by egas on May 5, 2006, at 22:55:18
Please, please, don't make any decisions until you are done withdrawal and back on the med that helped at least a little. Please just postpone it one day at a time. It could still be ok. I will have hope for you while you can't. I can tell, especially after you mention your dog, that you are a blessing.
Donna
Posted by lymom3 on May 6, 2006, at 6:50:43
In reply to Re: Rash, posted by egas on May 5, 2006, at 22:20:16
Thank you...I'll try that. I am on day 3 and still have 2 ugly looking red blotches from day 1 and 2. I have to go to Walgreens to donate my paycheck today anyways (pick up some prescriptions in other words) I'll pick some up then.
Posted by ravenstorm on May 6, 2006, at 8:33:33
In reply to Re: Rash, posted by lymom3 on May 6, 2006, at 6:50:43
First of all, please don't apologize for posting about your neagative experience. We all need honest feedback about how people are doing.
I have very bad withdrawals that leave me psychologically worse than before I start the drug, so it is important to me that I know that the drug does have a withdrawal syndrome so that I can weigh the risk of trying it. I don't have much of a life now, but I can be much much worse. People who don't have the withdrawals or who have withdrawals that only make them physically ill but not catastrophically mentally worse can't understand this.
Just to let you know, I also experienced pretty severe withdrawal to remeron, which you mentioned you were taking. Could you also be experiencing remeron withdrawal? Remeron has a longer half life, so you woulnd't have started having symptoms until day 8-9 at the earliest and up to two weeks at the latest. (Remeron has a variable half life in people, the half life being longer for women and shorter for men).
What other drugs have you had severe withdrawal to and how long has it lasted?
I always get suicidal during withdrawal to. I know it is hard to believe it will ever end, but please, please, please hang on.
It is a good sign that you are still searching, ie the Chinese medicine doctor. Have you ever tried any of the amino acids?
My thoughts and prayers continue to be with you.
Thank you so much for your posts.
By the way
Posted by Fischer on May 6, 2006, at 19:15:45
In reply to Re: EMSAM-Time for next refil » RobertDavid, posted by theo on May 2, 2006, at 17:21:05
Until Theo mentioned it I hadn't thought much about placement of the patch. I am on my 9th day and started feeling good after about 4 or 5 days. However, today was a bad day, I thought it was just a fluke but maybe it is because I put it on my thigh. I moved to the thighs because I am getting square red marks on my arms and chest that take a few days to fade.
I haven't had as many meltdowns since I started the patch, I really have to wait until my doctor's appointment on Thursday to evaluate it.
I had insomnia when I began the patch so I started taking ambien with the patch, I am sleeping deeper but not better.
I believe there is hope or else I would have given up a long time ago. I have had about 100 med combinations as well as ECT. I'll try anything to get a life.
Posted by Fischer on May 6, 2006, at 19:25:44
In reply to Re: egas, posted by ravenstorm on May 6, 2006, at 8:33:33
are you all still on the 6 mg patch?
Posted by Donna Louise on May 6, 2006, at 20:58:09
In reply to dosage, posted by Fischer on May 6, 2006, at 19:25:44
> are you all still on the 6 mg patch?
I am still on the 6mg but have only been wearing it, when it doesn't come off, for a week. The last two days have not been good. I have been rageful and sobbing alot. This is not the patch, this is what I am like untreated. I am afraid I am not getting enough medicine. the thigh is the only place it halfway sticks to, I am afraid to try more locations that I already have for fear I will only get a few hours out of it. I see the pdoc on Friday. Maybe she will have some samples i can waste trying different place. I am also a little over two weeks off effexor. I have always had a rebound high when first stopping a drug so I am afraid that is why I had been feeling good emotionally (even though physically sick as a person with bird flu must feel). And like always, the reprieve has passed. I was hoping EMSAM would take over in time to avoid this total relapse (I am never fully remitted in the first place) but it hasn't. Maybe tomorrow will be another day. At least these episodes aren't constant. I do have good moments too. Sorry for the disappointing news.Donna
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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