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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 6 to 30 of 55. Go back in thread:
Posted by fenix on January 28, 2006, at 19:48:47
In reply to Re: Help!! Bipolar, off meds, losing it » fenix, posted by Berberis on January 28, 2006, at 19:34:33
Then insulted you may be, but please don't be insulted by the facts. A chemical imbalance is part of temporary processes within the brains neurochemistry. Environments can alter the way the brain acts, either as responses to fight or flight events or to moments of fear and sorrow.
The key to understand is, to be lead into the false truth that drugs are the way to changing your well-being in the ultimate, is the greatest of insults.
If you were in a happy place, your brain's chemistry would follow suit.
The tradegy is being trapped in a certain place in which you cannot escape and thus you turn to the chemical solution.
Posted by willyee on January 28, 2006, at 20:07:48
In reply to Re: Help!! Bipolar, off meds, losing it, posted by fenix on January 28, 2006, at 19:48:47
> Then insulted you may be, but please don't be insulted by the facts. A chemical imbalance is part of temporary processes within the brains neurochemistry. Environments can alter the way the brain acts, either as responses to fight or flight events or to moments of fear and sorrow.
>
> The key to understand is, to be lead into the false truth that drugs are the way to changing your well-being in the ultimate, is the greatest of insults.
>
> If you were in a happy place, your brain's chemistry would follow suit.
>
> The tradegy is being trapped in a certain place in which you cannot escape and thus you turn to the chemical solution.I of course cant claim facts,but what if there is a chemical imbalance,or i hate to even use that played out term,what if again the way every other body part can fall ill why cant the brain?
We have images from eegs and fluids tested show imbalances of all sorts between depressed and non.
So what if this is the case,as much as i cant state this for a fact i dont believe stating otherwise can be done for a fact either.
Do i believe these medications are made to treat these illness,no way,i believe these are drugs,however if a drug is going to keep what it is that makes my brain feel like a hot frying pan calmed down so i can function,then i will have to use this drug.With the complexity of the brain,i certainly feel there is no reason to believe there cant be functions of it,that we obviously can grasp,that arent working properly.And yess im sure there are people there willing to take advantage of this,but it sure isnt limited to pharm companies,ive seen plenty of spirtual tapes,nutrition tapes etc that promise healing as well.
Posted by gardenergirl on January 28, 2006, at 21:30:07
In reply to Re: Help!! Bipolar, off meds, losing it, posted by fenix on January 28, 2006, at 18:20:01
> But really, that is bull, I bet if you got a million dollars right now, you wouldn't be so depressed anymore would ya?
The idea here is support, so please don't post anything that could lead others to feel put down.
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Regards,
gg acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by gardenergirl on January 28, 2006, at 21:31:52
In reply to Re: Help!! Bipolar, off meds, losing it » fenix, posted by Berberis on January 28, 2006, at 19:34:33
>
> I think you are not very informed.Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.Regards,
gg acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by gardenergirl on January 28, 2006, at 21:46:46
In reply to Re: Help!! Bipolar, off meds, losing it, posted by willyee on January 28, 2006, at 19:42:42
> we had some very ill faithed remarks today,first the pill popper thing now this one,i too find this totaly inapproiate.
>I asked you to be civil before, so now I'm blocking you for a week.
Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy actions, and he may choose to revise this decision.
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Regards,
gg acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by wanttobhappy on January 28, 2006, at 22:49:03
In reply to Re: Help!! Bipolar, off meds, losing it, posted by willyee on January 28, 2006, at 20:07:48
I understand that your current circumstances(sp?) are compounding your deppression/bipolar disorder, I know life is hard enough to deal with when you have a disorder and then it throws some more crap on top just to see if it can break you. You need to find someone to help you. No one should have to go through this alone!!! I think someone said this already.If you can't get anyone to help you, you need to seek outside help doc or hospital. If I were closer I would be over there in a jiffy, HOLD ON YOU CAN DO IT!!!!
I will be thinking of you!!
wtbhappy
Posted by Tomatheus on January 28, 2006, at 22:54:55
In reply to Re: Help!! Bipolar, off meds, losing it, posted by fenix on January 28, 2006, at 18:20:01
> They say it is a chemical balance thing. But really, that is bull
Really? How interesting. I've personally read hundreds of research articles that have provided strong evidence that depression, bipolar disorder, and other psychiatric illnesses are at least partially caused by genetically mediated biochemical abnormalities in some patients. And of course, the research articles I've read only make up a tiny fraction of all the research out there that supports the idea that various inborn biochemical abnormalities are involved in the development of psychiatric illnesses.
It's quite easy for someone who's completely ignorant of the research in the psychiatric literature to suggest that there is no such thing as a chemical imbalance. But for me to take a claim like yours seriously, I would need you to discredit each and every piece of research data that provides support for the idea that "chemical imbalances" do indeed exist.
But for discussion's sake, if you could discredit just a few findings from the psychiatric literature supporting the existence of genetically mediated biochemical imbalances in the brain, I will take your arguement somewhat seriously because at least you'd be able to convince me that you have some facts to back up your provocative ideas.
Tomatheus
Posted by Tomatheus on January 28, 2006, at 23:11:11
In reply to Help!! Bipolar, off meds, losing it, posted by catmint on January 28, 2006, at 18:05:38
Catmint,
I don't have any easy answers for you, but it sounds like the no-medication route that you're currently taking isn't the best thing for you. I know that you said that you've tried every psych med for bipolar disorder, but it's possible that you might have missed a combination that might be able to give you enough relief to be more functional.
I know that you made it clear that you suffer from bipolar disorder, but the term "bipolar" refers to such a wide spectrum of symptomatic profiles these days that it's almost become meaningless. Could you say a little more about what your primary symptoms are? (e.g., do you struggle more with [hypo]mania or depression? do you cycle rapidly or go through episodes lasting several months? Is your [hypo]mania more of the euphoric type or more of the agitated/irritable type? To what extent are your [hypo]manic symptoms made worse by different classes of antidepressants?)
I wish I could give you more in terms of advice, but only my suggestions at this point would be to 1) try to get in to see a doctor to discuss different med options soon, and 2) considering your economic predicament, you might want to look into applying for disability.
Tomatheus
> I have been diagnosed for 7 years, been on all pych meds for bipolar since. 2 months ago stopped Lamictal monotherapy.
>
> I can't deal with my life. I felt that the Lamictal was only helping somewhat, and stooped for fear of long term effects.
>
> I'm 39, female, and living as a single parent.
>
> Now, I have a mild recreational drug problem, as well as alcohol every day. Ciggarettes, a tumultuous home-life, jobless, facing eviction,scrounging for change, no foodstamps till Feb. 3
>
> Help! Any posts in the next two to four hours are needed!! I need to get some advice.
>
>
Posted by 4WD on January 28, 2006, at 23:30:03
In reply to Re: Help!! Bipolar, off meds, losing it, posted by fenix on January 28, 2006, at 18:20:01
> You said you are off of meds. You aren't on any at all? Sometimes if you stop taking them suddenly you can get something known as akathesia which is a feeling of painful agitation and restlessness. If you want to get off of these medicines because of fear of long term effects (quite a prudent thing to do), you should get off of them slowly.
>
> They say it is a chemical balance thing. But really, that is bull, I bet if you got a million dollars right now, you wouldn't be so depressed anymore would ya? Even though past memories would still be there, you at least wouldn't be trapped.If I got a million dollars right now, I could not experience any pleasure at the idea. I would be just as depressed and just as scared as I am right now.
Posted by sleepygirl on January 28, 2006, at 23:32:19
In reply to Re: Help!! Bipolar, off meds, losing it, posted by fenix on January 28, 2006, at 18:20:01
They say it is a chemical balance thing. But really, that is bull
oh come on now! What was that?!
Posted by 4WD on January 28, 2006, at 23:35:18
In reply to Help!! Bipolar, off meds, losing it, posted by catmint on January 28, 2006, at 18:05:38
> I have been diagnosed for 7 years, been on all pych meds for bipolar since. 2 months ago stopped Lamictal monotherapy.
>
> I can't deal with my life. I felt that the Lamictal was only helping somewhat, and stooped for fear of long term effects.
>
> I'm 39, female, and living as a single parent.
>
> Now, I have a mild recreational drug problem, as well as alcohol every day. Ciggarettes, a tumultuous home-life, jobless, facing eviction,scrounging for change, no foodstamps till Feb. 3
>
> Help! Any posts in the next two to four hours are needed!! I need to get some advice.
>
>
I hope you didn't take offense at a previous poster's remark that you'd suddenly be cured of your disease if you just had a million dollars. Most of us here recognize the seriousness of our disorders and are more sympathetic to emotional pain.I wish I could help you. I hope you feel better soon. I think you should resume meds, at least to taper off if you don't want to continue permanently. Long term effects might be scary but they are only a possibility. What you are experiencing right now is real.
Marsha
Posted by Berberis on January 29, 2006, at 0:12:51
In reply to Please be civil » Berberis, posted by gardenergirl on January 28, 2006, at 21:31:52
> >
> > I think you are not very informed.
>
> Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
>
> If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
>
>
> Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
>
> Regards,
>
> gg acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Sorry, gg. I was truly trying to follow the rules by using I statements. Guess I failed miserably. I'm kinda glad I got my first PBC out of the way.
Posted by fenix on January 29, 2006, at 4:41:06
In reply to Please be sensitive » fenix, posted by gardenergirl on January 28, 2006, at 21:30:07
> > But really, that is bull, I bet if you got a million dollars right now, you wouldn't be so depressed anymore would ya?
>
> The idea here is support, so please don't post anything that could lead others to feel put down.
>
> Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
>
> Regards,
>
> gg acting as deputy for Dr. BobAnd that is the only part in my whole post that you paid attention to? You put it out of context, and you should also be a little bit more civil in regards to the respect of those that post.
Posted by fenix on January 29, 2006, at 5:03:22
In reply to Re: Help!! Bipolar, off meds, losing it » fenix, posted by Tomatheus on January 28, 2006, at 22:54:55
And defend it I shall dear player. It is taken out of context yet again, as was a few of my other posts of late.
Yes, when chemicals act in different ways they produce different actions. Different situations cause your body to respond in different ways, cause the neurochemistry to change, etc. When you are in a bad environment, your mind becomes ill of it, but not just your mind... your brain and its chemicals as well.
The whole thing is ridiculous about the imbalance, and this is where I will have to be more specific. It is not that a chemical imbalance doesn't happen, it is that drugs are not the answer, at least no the ultimate answer. The real problem is, you are in a trap, you are given drugs to cope in the trap, the suffocating box. The trap is the environment that you are in, what the environment is doing to you, it is established deeply in the survivalist nature of humans and of course in that of other living species.
Most people don't have a million dollars so they can escape the places that are bothering them. You may argue that the trap is in the mind sometimes as well caused by past traumas such as incest. However, just leaving a certain place that you have been at for a very long time... can do profound things on you regardless of your past experiences. I know this from personal experience s myself, and not just me, but from various people that suffered from rape, incest, and other such things in there past.
So, to sum it up, the whole chemical imbalance things being pushed on everyone is like an empty truth. Yes, it is indeed fact, but how useful is it? You aren't forever in the chains of your neurochemistry, there are other ways to change it besides powerful and often times dangerous drugs.
You may then decide to go on these drugs that they toy around you, these SSRIs.. the neuroleptics. But you ain't going anywhere anytime soon.
They gave me benzos for stress because of chemical imbalances. I went on a long vacation, I didn't need benzos anymore.
If you can escape, do it. Those drugs knock you out for a reason.
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 29, 2006, at 10:41:08
In reply to Re: Help!! Bipolar, off meds, losing it, posted by fenix on January 29, 2006, at 5:03:22
> It is not that a chemical imbalance doesn't happen, it is that drugs are not the answer, at least no the ultimate answer.
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to ask that follow-ups regarding the ultimate answer be redirected to Psycho-Babble Social. Or Psycho-Babble Faith...
Bob
Posted by gardenergirl on January 29, 2006, at 14:17:35
In reply to Re: Please be civil » gardenergirl, posted by Berberis on January 29, 2006, at 0:12:51
> > Sorry, gg. I was truly trying to follow the rules by using I statements. Guess I failed miserably. I'm kinda glad I got my first PBC out of the way.
It can be tricky.
I know what you mean about getting one out of the way. My first was for f*rting.
Only me. :-D
gg
Posted by catmint on January 29, 2006, at 14:28:28
In reply to Re: Help!! Bipolar, off meds, losing it, posted by fenix on January 28, 2006, at 18:20:01
> You said you are off of meds. You aren't on any at all? Sometimes if you stop taking them suddenly you can get something known as akathesia which is a feeling of painful agitation and restlessness. If you want to get off of these medicines because of fear of long term effects (quite a prudent thing to do), you should get off of them slowly.
>
> They say it is a chemical balance thing. But really, that is bull, I bet if you got a million dollars right now, you wouldn't be so depressed anymore would ya? Even though past memories would still be there, you at least wouldn't be trapped.Thank you so much. I did get off the Lamictal slowly, I just don't know what to do from here. This morning my brother died. He was 30. He had muscular dystrophy.
Posted by catmint on January 29, 2006, at 14:30:54
In reply to Re: Help!! Bipolar, off meds, losing it, posted by willyee on January 28, 2006, at 19:42:42
> Totaly agree,reacting to a single event has nothing to do with the everyday struggle we go through,we had some very ill faithed remarks today,first the pill popper thing now this one,i too find this totaly inapproiate.
>
> As for the orignal poster,my heart and soul goes out to you,every bit of it,i wish i could offer you more,just please get someone involved fast somone who can understand,get help,i dont mean help just for the disease,get someone to watch u and to maybe help in any way possable now.Thank you for your post. I can tell you understand
Amy
Posted by Racer on January 29, 2006, at 14:31:09
In reply to Re: Help!! Bipolar, off meds, losing it » fenix, posted by Tomatheus on January 28, 2006, at 22:54:55
> > They say it is a chemical balance thing. But really, that is bull
>
> Really? How interesting. I've personally read hundreds of research articles that have provided strong evidence that depression, bipolar disorder, and other psychiatric illnesses are at least partially caused by genetically mediated biochemical abnormalities in some patients.
>
> But for me to take a claim like yours seriously, I would need you to discredit each and every piece of research data that provides support for the idea that "chemical imbalances" do indeed exist.
Absence of proof is not proof of absence, so I don't think ALL studies ever have to be discredited. In fact, I'll offer up something much simpler:Since we know that other metabolic disorders, such as diabetes, are caused by chemical imbalances in the body, I will believe that mood disorders are caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. Unless or until someone *proves* that the brain is *not* subject to the same sorts of metabolic disruptions as other organs of the body, it just makes more sense to me to assume that the brain *is* subject to those disruptions, and therefore that mood disorders include a chemical imbalance in the brain as part of their etiology.
Simple as can be: until you prove the brain is fundamentally different from other organs, let's assume that it's fundamentally similar, and thus subject to metabolic disruptions that cause chemical imbalances.
And, if these disorders are caused by chemical imbalances, then drugs can address those imbalances.
Simpler still: proof's in the pudding. Most of these drugs are effective for people who take them. Not all people, but many. That really should tell us all we really need to know about the subject, yes?
(Oh, and Tomatheus? I'm not disagreeing with you. Sorry if it came across that way -- just offering up what I think might be a simpler way of looking at the arguments involved, inspired by what you wrote.)
Posted by catmint on January 29, 2006, at 14:34:13
In reply to Re: Catmint, I hope you read this, posted by wanttobhappy on January 28, 2006, at 22:49:03
Posted by Racer on January 29, 2006, at 14:42:26
In reply to Re: Help!! Bipolar, off meds, losing it » fenix, posted by catmint on January 29, 2006, at 14:28:28
> This morning my brother died. He was 30. He had muscular dystrophy.
I'm so sorry for your loss.
>> Thank you so much. I did get off the Lamictal slowly, I just don't know what to do from here.
It sounds as though you need *something* to help you through, even if you don't want to be on drugs longterm. Considering your financial position, which I can relate to, I'm guessing you don't have access to a therapist? You do have access to local support groups, though, which can be very, very helpful. To find them, start checking the websites for NAMI, there's another group called something like the Depressive-Bipolar Alliance, Manic Depressive/Depressive associations, etc. Most have local support groups, and they can be very, very helpful, not only in providing emotional support, but also in finding local resources when you just can't afford adequate treatment.
And in the meantime, it would probably be worth getting back on medication until you can set up a support network around yourself to help you function more effectively. I'm with Tomatheus on this: Even if you've tried ALL the bipolar drugs out there, you may not have tried the right combination to get adequate relief from your symptoms. Even as a temporary measure, it sounds as though that might be in your best interest right now.
Of course, you still don't have to do it. I'm only offering an outside opinion.
Good luck to you, and again, my sympathy on your brother's death.
Posted by gardenergirl on January 29, 2006, at 14:44:32
In reply to Re: Help!! Bipolar, off meds, losing it » fenix, posted by catmint on January 29, 2006, at 14:28:28
Please be extra gentle with yourself in this time of mourning.
And don't hesitate to see your doc or T if you have one for extra support if needed.
And of course, we're here for you, too.
(((((catmint)))))
gg
Posted by catmint on January 29, 2006, at 14:45:38
In reply to Um, I think you're taking it too far... » Tomatheus, posted by Racer on January 29, 2006, at 14:31:09
>>>>Simpler still: proof's in the pudding. Most of these drugs are effective for people who take them. Not all people, but many. That really should tell us all we really need to know about the subject, yes?
Yes, I agree. I am struggling with the decision to get back on Lamictal; due to it's efficacy, I should, but the irritability was too constant. Lamictal worked on many levels, but some people noticed I was racy, and innatentive.
Now I am off meds, stoned again and dealing with my messed up social and economic situation as well as the death of my 30 year old brother this morning.
Posted by catmint on January 29, 2006, at 14:49:51
In reply to I'm so sorry, catmint » catmint, posted by gardenergirl on January 29, 2006, at 14:44:32
> Please be extra gentle with yourself in this time of mourning.
>
> And don't hesitate to see your doc or T if you have one for extra support if needed.
>
> And of course, we're here for you, too.
>
> (((((catmint)))))
>
> gg
I am shaking and lonely,isn't that sad. lol
Everything happens for a reason?
Anyway, I thank you for your support all of you.
Posted by Tomatheus on January 29, 2006, at 15:49:12
In reply to Re: Help!! Bipolar, off meds, losing it » fenix, posted by catmint on January 29, 2006, at 14:28:28
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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