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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 83 to 107 of 183. Go back in thread:
Posted by sukarno on May 25, 2005, at 7:00:46
In reply to Re: Nardil,Imipramine » sukarno, posted by Chairman_MAO on May 7, 2005, at 12:11:17
Chairman MAO said:
> I have to say, now that the adjustment "brain shocks" have subsided (after only about 5 days)I've been wanting to ask you about that but kept putting it off. Sorry.
Can you describe those "brain shocks"? Is it anything like the "zaps" you get during SSRI withdrawal?I wonder if zaps are a result of SSRI neurotoxicity or because of serotonin fluctuations.
Posted by sukarno on June 24, 2005, at 5:16:10
In reply to Developing side effects to tianeptine (Stablon), posted by sukarno on March 25, 2005, at 5:30:58
I'm curious if anyone else here has taken Stablon (tianeptine, an atypical tricyclic antidepressant...supposedly with no anticholinergic action).
Have you ever felt thirsty on it? I never have until recently. I had raised the dose from 25mg to 37.5mg (2 to 3 tablets respectively) and noticed some thirst, sometimes intense. I now drink double (3 litres) the amount of water than I used to.
Is this something I should be concerned about? I thought Stablon doesn't have anticholinergic or antihistaminic effects.
Ed, are you still around? You know a lot about psychopharmacology. :)
I also have been steadily raising my Pepcid (famotidine) dose to quite a high level. I'm on 20mg 6 to 8 times a day since I'm developing a tolerance to it and the acid was coming back (I have GERD).
I'm not sure which drug is responsible...or maybe both are.
Can Pepcid, since it is an H2 receptor antagonist become *nonselective* and target H1 histamine receptors too?
Thanks in advance! I drink a lot of water but it doesn't seem to help, but if I lower the Pepcid, the acid will come back with a vengeance and if I cut the Stablon down I'll get some headaches as a withdrawal reaction.
Thanks again. :)
Paul
Posted by ed_uk on June 24, 2005, at 10:26:25
In reply to Dry mouth.... Stablon (tianeptine) side-effect?, posted by sukarno on June 24, 2005, at 5:16:10
Hi Paul!
Apparantly, 20% of patients treated with tianeptine get a dry mouth. I expect the true figure is higher though because this study seems to underestimate side effects! Only 17% got drowsy on amitriptyline - I think not LOL!
The incidence of dry mouth (38 vs 20%), constipation (19 vs 15%), dizziness/syncope (23 vs 13%), drowsiness (17 vs 10%) and postural hypotension (8 vs 3%) are greater with amitriptyline than with tianeptine. Insomnia and nightmares occur in more tianeptine than amitriptyline recipients (20 vs 7%).
>thirst, sometimes intense.......
>Is this something I should be concerned about?Probably not ...but I think it would be worth seeing your doctor and getting a few tests done eg. blood glucose for diabetes etc.
>I also have been steadily raising my Pepcid (famotidine) dose to quite a high level.
Dry mouth is listed as a side effect of Pepcid but I don't think it's common.
> I'm on 20mg 6 to 8 times a day since I'm developing a tolerance to it and the acid was coming back (I have GERD).
I hope the high dose is helping :-) Perhaps you should see a gastro-enterologist. Have you tried a proton pump inhibitor eg. lansoprazole? They can be more effective than H2 antagonists for some people.
Kind regards
~Ed
Posted by sukarno on July 9, 2005, at 11:31:28
In reply to Developing side effects to tianeptine (Stablon), posted by sukarno on March 25, 2005, at 5:30:58
Hi everyone! :-)
I was taking 12,5mg Stablon 3 times a day and about two weeks ago it began to "poop out". It was horrible. I admit I was under a lot of extra stress, but even after a good night's sleep I would wake up feeling hopeless with the depression returning full force. My life quickly became doom & gloom..plus some anxiety.
So, I raised the dose to 12,5mg 4 times a day and within one or two days my mood was right back to normal and I was once again feeling great.... positive thinking and outlook on life, looking forward to the future... began to renovate my house, etc.
I feel good now, but my concern is that Stablon might "poop out" again in the future.
I've heard of SSRIs doing that, but this isn't an SSRI.
It does have a very short half-life though... (only 3 hours). Would that have anything to do with the tolerance ("poop out")?Thanks in advance! :-)
Paul
Posted by ed_uk on July 9, 2005, at 11:42:54
In reply to Tianeptine tolerance, depression returns, posted by sukarno on July 9, 2005, at 11:31:28
Hi Paul!
>I would wake up feeling hopeless with the depression returning full force.
I'm sorry to hear that :-(
>It does have a very short half-life though... (only 3 hours). Would that have anything to do with the tolerance ("poop out")?
I don't think its short half-life is the cause of poop out ........but drugs with short half lives do seem to be associated with withdrawal symptoms between doses. Taking a small dose every few hours might be helpful.
Kind regards
~Ed
Posted by sukarno on July 17, 2005, at 23:33:39
In reply to Developing side effects to tianeptine (Stablon), posted by sukarno on March 25, 2005, at 5:30:58
I called Servier in Indonesia today and asked them what the maximum dosage is and the representative said, "We only recommend 1 tablet 3 times a day, sir."
I kept trying to ask him if there is a maximum dosage since 1 tablet 3 times a day doesn't work for me, so I take 1 tablet 4 times a day.
He acted like a robot and repeated the same thing he said before.
Does anyone here have any information about the various dosages? I do recall reading in clinical trials that Stablon was used up to 75mg/day in divided doses, so that would be 6 tablets a day.
Ed, do you know about this? All other drugs have a range of dosages, but Servier is a bit strange...seems like with any drug they produce they slap on a "one size fits all" type dosing regimen.
Thanks in advance! :-)
p.s. I did find Survector but it is expired and the Servier representative said they quit producing it at least 5 years ago. He didn't give any particular reason why they ceased production. I asked him if it was because of low demand and he said there was high demand but they just don't make it anymore. Hmm... no explanation at all why they quit (although we all know why hehheh).
I hope this isn't counterfeit Survector. It comes in strips of six 100mg tablets, still in the blister package but not in the cardboard box. Here in Indonesia, counterfeit drugs have been produced that looked so genuine almost no one noticed....even down to the blister package. Very clever counterfeiting has been accomplished here... quite scary. :-(
It is expired though, but cheaper than Stablon when I add up the cost of taking 4 Stablon per day vs. 1/2 or 1 Survector per day.
Posted by ed_uk on July 18, 2005, at 13:29:15
In reply to Maximum dosage for Stablon (tianeptine), posted by sukarno on July 17, 2005, at 23:33:39
Hi!
Some people take A LOT!
'We report on a tianeptine dependence lasting for eighteen months in a 42 year old patient............Tianeptine was prescribed for a major depressive disorder. The patient alleged a "flash sensation" like with heroin since the very first doses with a physical and psychological well-being sensation, better psychomotor performances and transient mood elation. His addiction to tianeptine was immediate and heavy. The positive reinforcement faded away after one month and a total dependance took over, with physical and psychological withdrawal symptoms when doses were not renewed. After two months of treatment, the daily consumption of tianeptine was of 90 tablets. The patient was hospitalised to treat both the addiction to tianeptine and the ongoing major depressive disorder. He was taking 240 tablets daily.'
'The authors report a case of tianeptine abuse in a 30 year-old woman. After a medical prescription of the recommended dosage of 12.5 mg 3 times daily of oral tianeptine for a depressive illness, the patient spontaneously increased the dosage which after two months reached 150 tablets per day. No severe toxic effects were observed. As adverse effects, the patient, in the beginning of this high treatment period suffered from nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, anorexia with weight loss, constipation. These side effects progressively disappeared. The biological tolerance was excellent, and hepatic parameters were not affected. The patient experienced and seek a psychostimulant effect. After seven months of such a therapy, she was hospitalized to undergo a withdrawal. The discontinuation of the tianeptine treatment occurs in four days. A withdrawal syndrome marked by myalgia, and cold feeling was transient, and alleviated by sedative phenothiazine (cyamemazine) and myorelaxant benzodiazepine (tetrazepam).'
>I kept trying to ask him if there is a maximum dosage.......
Manufacturers will only ever recommend the approved dose. They are protecting themselves from litigation in case anything goes wrong.
>I do recall reading in clinical trials that Stablon was used up to 75mg/day in divided doses, so that would be 6 tablets a day.
Get your liver function tests measured! Liver toxicity seems to be a concern.
Kind regards
~Ed
>
Posted by Declan on July 18, 2005, at 16:11:28
In reply to Maximum dosage for Stablon (tianeptine), posted by sukarno on July 17, 2005, at 23:33:39
Good luck with the Survector. I will be interested.
Declan
Posted by rod on July 19, 2005, at 3:41:53
In reply to Maximum dosage for Stablon (tianeptine), posted by sukarno on July 17, 2005, at 23:33:39
Hi Paul,
Well my former doc said if the regular dose doesnt work sufficiently, he just doubles the dose. to 6 tabs a day. Because its very unclear how this drug actualy works. In my opinion they are calling it a serotonin reuptake accelerator just because they wanted a unique label for this drug...
And in the dosage range studies it was very unclear which dose is best.
But for me 6 tabs a day was like poison. not in a physical way, but in a neurological way. One evening I suddenly became nauseaous, dizzy, and just had the feeling a am dying right now. I also became very noise sensitive during that. My guess and my doctors one, was it triggered some kind of seizure.
Well anyway, it didnt do the trick for me, neither at 2, 3 or 6 tabs, so I stopped it.
good luck
regards
Roland
Posted by sukarno on September 1, 2005, at 12:20:05
In reply to Re: Maximum dosage for Stablon (tianeptine) » sukarno, posted by rod on July 19, 2005, at 3:41:53
Hi everyone. I hope all is well with the folks on psychobabble. :-)
Well, I had tapered down the tianeptine to 1 tablet a day in late July, but the depression and anxiety came back. In fact, I experienced some "rebound" panic attacks and a fuzzy-headed sensation, but nothing major. No withdrawal symptoms to speak of.
At the suggestion of my psychiatrist I went back to 12.5mg 3x/day (TID). My depression and anxiety almost immediately responded and I felt much better. However, about 10 days later the depression began to return, so I increased the dose to 4x/day.
Here I am a few weeks later and it is beginning to "poop out" again.
What causes antidepressant "poop out"? I have read this is official termed "tachyphylaxis" (i.e. a rapid "immunity" to the effects of a drug).
I really feel hopeless right now, even though I've taken the third dose of the day. What shall I do next?
I do have some amineptine here and am seriously considering taking that despite it having been pulled from the market because numerous studies have proven its long term safety, whereas with tianeptine it seems that a lot of the claims made for this particular drug cannot be proven. I might be wrong though...but there are few studies available on tianeptine compared with amineptine.
I wonder if I can take amineptine along with tianeptine or try a cross-taper, where I would gradually decrease tianeptine whilst adding amineptine at small doses and gradually increasing it.
In other news, I quit Xanax abruptly on 31 July and substituted with Valium 10 to 20mg for every 1mg of Xanax and rapidly tapered the dosage down.
Now I am on a relatively low dose of 10mg 2x/day (BID) diazepam (Valium) and am well-controlled in terms of panic attacks and anxiety. It took a while to adjust to this dosage as the dosage of Xanax was 5mg/day (equivalent to 50 to 100mg Valium depending on which equivalency charts you read).
I feel much better in terms of anxiety. I no longer have panic attacks at night and no interdose anxiety.
I'm just really feeling hopeless about this situation with tianeptine. I suppose I could increase the dosage to 12.5mg 5x/day or 2 tablets twice a day and one before bedtime (to avoid nightmares).
I can't take SSRIs or conventional TCAs. I won't consider MAOIs either because all of these drugs, or at least most, are metabolised by CYP2D6, which means I would have to take 1/20 the standard dose, just like I did with Prozac. Even at 1mg per day, Prozac was quite strong and mind-numbing, so I reduced it to 0.5mg per day and it worked just fine, however I am allergic to it now.
If anyone has any suggestions... or rather, what would you do if you were me? I am thinking of hospitalisation, but am not sure if that is the right thing to do.
Take care everyone,
Paul
Posted by Declan on September 1, 2005, at 15:06:56
In reply to Stablon (tianeptine) stopped working again, posted by sukarno on September 1, 2005, at 12:20:05
The CYP2D6 thing. I can't remember if you've talked about this before. Is your response to Prozac the main reason for thinking that enzyme is low in you?
Good luck, Paul
I hadn't realised you were feeling so dreadful.
Declan
Posted by sukarno on September 2, 2005, at 22:14:31
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine) stopped working again » sukarno, posted by Declan on September 1, 2005, at 15:06:56
I think Ed mentioned that I should be tested to see if I am a poor metaboliser. All of the drugs I've tried in the past which were metabolised by CYP2D6 seem to have affected me so strongly even in the lowest doses. I remember venlafaxine (Effexor) at doses of 1/4 tablet (6.25mg) gave me tachycardia, high blood pressure and severe headache. Imipramine at 25mg and nortriptyline at 10 or 25mg (can't remember which) gave me irregular heartbeats and other side effects. Desipramine (Norpramin) at 10mg made me feel faint all the time.
Dextromethorphan makes me feel like I'm under the influence of something much stronger. I should get tested for that enzyme problem unless that is expensive. I remember taking codeine with my friend when I was a teenager and it didn't even affect me but my friend said he could feel it. Then I read the other day that codeine is a prodrug which is converted by CYP2D6 to morphine and if you are a poor metaboliser, it won't convert over to morphine very much, if at all.
I really wonder if I am a poor metaboliser. It could be, or it could be that I'm just very sensitive to medications.It does seem that I am tolerant of medications which aren't metabolised by that enzyme such as benzodiazepines and tianeptine, etc. I could build up quite a tolerance when I used to drink.
I took two tianeptine last night. At first I couldn't sleep and then felt quite strange. My lips and fingers felt numb and I felt a bit fuzzy headed, but that could have been anxiety.
Even now I still feel fuzzy headed and have a bit of dry mouth, but not depressed at this time.
Tianeptine feels too short-acting. I wish they could make an extended release formulation to avoid the interdose problems.
Posted by sukarno on September 16, 2005, at 4:59:16
In reply to Developing side effects to tianeptine (Stablon), posted by sukarno on March 25, 2005, at 5:30:58
I have been having increasingly frequent heart palpitations and some episodes of irregular beats.
Servier claimed initially that tianeptine is not cardiotoxic and is devoid of cardiac effects.
However, I have learned it does cause dry mouth which is an anticholinergic effect if I'm not mistaken.
The medications I am on currently besides tianeptine are:
famotidine (Pepcid) 40-60mg with every meal and at bedtime
diazepam (Valium) 10mg twice a day
I recently increased famotidine so maybe that is the culprit?
I have had heart palpitations prior to taking tianeptine, but now they are increasing in frequency and severity. I'm going to a cardiologist this evening at a clinic to have an ECG and possibly a blood count to find out what is responsible for it.
It really scares me because today I got up to get some water and I felt dizzy and faint along with shortness of breath until I sat down. I'm only 33 and had a full cardiac workup in 1993 which only turned up "premature beats" which were not serious. I hope this isn't serious this time.
I am under quite a bit of stress though. I hope it is only stress so I can try to relax. Everytime my heart pounds in my chest it makes me more worried.
Posted by sukarno on September 30, 2005, at 5:16:41
In reply to Developing side effects to tianeptine (Stablon), posted by sukarno on March 25, 2005, at 5:30:58
Stablon is working quite well. I gave it some more time without raising the dose and it seems that keeping the doses closer together increases the efficacy. My psychiatrist said the half-life is short (approx. 6 hours) so it must be dosed at least 3 times per day.
I had an ECG and it was normal so I suspect the high dose famotidine regimen I was taking. I lowered famotidine down to 20mg QID and supplemented with calcium carbonate antacids...now my heart palpitations are relatively rare (once or twice a day at most instead of dozens of times).
I'm still on Valium 10mg BID. Overall my panic attacks, anxiety and depression are well-controlled. I hope this keeps up.
I do have amineptine as a last resort, but haven't taken any of it yet. Expiration date on amineptine is July 2007, so it is still "fresh". :)
If anyone else here is taking Stablon, please report on your experiences. :) Thanks! :)
Paul
Posted by sukarno on September 30, 2005, at 5:23:27
In reply to Stablon is working well (12.5mg QID), posted by sukarno on September 30, 2005, at 5:16:41
Sorry for the double, but I forgot to mention that I still lack motivation. This lack of motivation began about 18 months prior to my first panic attack, so I am sure it is pathological.
I'm not sure how to treat that. I've complained to the psychiatrist about it and he just said to take Stablon.
I'm thinking a dopaminergic would be in order for that.
Is it possible or safe to supplement amineptine along with Stablon (tianeptine)?
It's strange to feel in a good mood, but yet at the same time are amotivational. Stablon does enhance emotion instead of blunting it as SSRIs do, and there are no sexual side effects either. That's good, but the lack of motivation really interferes with my life.
What would you do if you were me?
*confused*
Thanks! :)
Paul
Posted by ed_uk on September 30, 2005, at 15:16:15
In reply to Stablon is working well (12.5mg QID), posted by sukarno on September 30, 2005, at 5:16:41
Hi Paul,
>Stablon is working quite well.
:-)
>I had an ECG and it was normal
:-) !
>Motivation
I've never taken a drug which has motivated me. I doubt anything would motivate me to do things I don't enjoy!
>I'm still on Valium 10mg BID.
Do you prefer it to Xanax? Are your liver enzymes normal?
Kind regards
~Ed
Posted by sukarno on October 2, 2005, at 14:55:18
In reply to Re: Stablon is working well (12.5mg QID) » sukarno, posted by ed_uk on September 30, 2005, at 15:16:15
Hi Ed! :-)
How are you doing? Still taking citalopram?
I hope all is well.I asked a psychiatrist if it would be ok to take amineptine along with Stablon and he said it is ok, so I might give it a try at a low dose.
I should get my liver enzymes checked as it's been 2 1/2 years since the last test. I hope nothing is wrong. My appetite is still good though.
Valium, even at a much lower dose of 20mg (relative to 5mg Xanax) is much more effective. I feel much better and I haven't felt this good in a few years. :-)
No ups and downs on Valium. Easy enough to take twice a day (every 12 hours). Xanax sometimes precipitated my anxiety and I would get rebound symptoms and panic attacks at night. At first I thought this was just part of the panic disorder, but after getting on Valium this no longer happens.
It's a big relief to say the least. :-)
I cut back on famotidine to 20mg in the morning before breakfast and 40mg at night. I take calcium carbonate as an antacid with meals during the day to keep the acid down.
I'm thinking of starting a PPI (e.g. omeprazole), but I've heard of people having anxiety and tachycardia as adverse reactions, so I'm not sure if it is a good idea or not. I do have a bottle of omeprazole here. They are 20mg capsules and I was thinking of emptying out half the capsule so I'd be taking roughly 10mg. I'm terribly afraid of the side effects of PPIs, but need something stronger to keep the GERD at bay.
I'm not sure if I'd do better on amineptine. I've read it affects the adrenergic system, so it is possible it could exacerbate my anxiety although I feel very calm most of the time. My main problem now is lack of motivation and that makes me depressed at times. I don't really have motivation to do anything... I struggle with it and try to tough it out. Stablon mostly just keeps the depression away and sometimes puts me in a pleasant mood, but still feel lazy to perform even simple tasks.A lot of this could be due to my living situation. I really don't like Indonesia and am planning to move back to Malaysia one of these days. That's a very nice country...much less to worry about over there and very clean and organised.
Take care and keep in touch! :-)
Best wishes,
Paul
Posted by ed_uk on October 2, 2005, at 15:29:14
In reply to Re: Stablon is working well (12.5mg QID), posted by sukarno on October 2, 2005, at 14:55:18
Hi Paul,
>How are you doing? Still taking citalopram?
I'm ok thanks, still on citalopram 60mg. My anxiety is mild atm but seems to be getting worse. I'd like to increase the citalopram to 80mg.
>Valium, even at a much lower dose of 20mg (relative to 5mg Xanax) is much more effective.
IMO, diazepam is usually a better long-term benzo than alprazolam. The inter-dose withdrawal symptoms are just too much of a problem with alprazolam.
>I'm terribly afraid of the side effects of PPIs..........
I don't think you should be. The side effects of PPIs aren't usually any worse than the side effects of famotidine. PPIs are widely agreed to be the most effective treatment for GERD.
There is some evidence that omeprazole might interact with diazepam. Rabeprazole, another PPI, does not appear to interact with diazepam.
PPIs can reduce vitamin B12 absorption, this might lead to psychiatric symptoms. Supplementation could be helpful, not sure.
>A lot of this could be due to my living situation. I really don't like Indonesia and am planning to move back to Malaysia one of these days. That's a very nice country...much less to worry about over there and very clean and organised.
Why don't you like Indonesia?
Kind regards
Ed
Posted by sukarno on October 12, 2005, at 7:46:49
In reply to Re: Stablon is working well (12.5mg QID) » sukarno, posted by ed_uk on October 2, 2005, at 15:29:14
Hi Ed! :-)
Yeah, Indonesia for me is quite stressful.. the constant threat of terrorism and having trouble becoming fluent in the language. I feel a sense of culture shock, which is masked by the drug cocktail I'm taking. Stablon has helped most with this.
I began a Valium taper yesterday. I have 300 2mg tablets and some 5mg tablets, so I decided to taper from 20mg to 19mg and taper by 1mg every month. That should be slow enough to avoid any significant withdrawal symptoms eh? I hope so. :-)
Benzodiazepines tend to exacerbate anger when I'm in a situation where someone is making me angry. Sometimes I feel a sense of rage. I've maintained my calm despite that, but it is disturbing. I never had this problem prior to benzos. Perhaps it is due to disinhibition or a paradoxical reaction? For the most part, Valium makes me feel calm and sleepy. Xanax was a much worse offender when it came to irritability.
I slept better when I was off benzos in that it felt like a more "natural" sleep. I would wake up feeling more refreshed instead of groggy. I've been on benzos since 1989/90.
Stablon has helped my anxiety a lot but the results didn't occur for a few months. Stablon seems to work better in the long term for anxiety.
:-) My goal is to discontinue or stay on the lowest dose possible of Valium and hope Stablon will control the panic attacks by itself.
I can't find rabeprazole here in Indonesia. Perhaps I could empty out half the omeprazole capsule to make it an approximate 10mg and take that?
I did manage to lower my famotidine dosage to 60mg/day (20mg in the morning and 40mg at night) and just yesterday I only took 20mg at night. My leg pain/inflammation has disappeared. (It had been hurting and swelling a bit for months but right after I drastically lowered the dose of famotidine it vanished!) :-)
I read later that famotidine can cause inflammation of the blood vessels. That's definitely not a good thing I suppose.
Is it legal to import Stablon into the UK? I know that in the US it is illegal to import any drug which is not FDA approved, irrespective of whether or not it is a scheduled drug.
Have a good day..
Best wishes! :-)
Paul
Posted by ed_uk on October 12, 2005, at 14:28:26
In reply to Re: Stablon is working well (12.5mg QID), posted by sukarno on October 12, 2005, at 7:46:49
Hi Paul
>That should be slow enough to avoid any significant withdrawal symptoms eh?
I agree :-) Keep us up to date on how it goes.
>Benzodiazepines tend to exacerbate anger when I'm in a situation where someone is making me angry.
I find that. I can't control my temper if I've taken a benzo!
>I can't find rabeprazole here in Indonesia.
Are you sure? The brand name is Pariet.
>Is it legal to import Stablon into the UK?
I think so. The law is 'fuzzy' on this one though.
Kind regards
~Ed
Posted by sukarno on October 24, 2005, at 14:38:13
In reply to Developing side effects to tianeptine (Stablon), posted by sukarno on March 25, 2005, at 5:30:58
Has anyone here taken Stablon with amineptine?
I just tried small amounts of amineptine, starting with 1/8 of a tablet and then worked my way up to 62.5mg tonight.
The effects I noticed were an increased ease in movement (less stiffness in the joints) and some dizziness and an "off-balance" (ataxia?) type of feeling.
I still take 12.5mg Stablon four times a day and have reduced diazepam since 12 October to 19mg/day from 20mg/day. I plan to reduce diazepam by 1mg every month to avoid withdrawal symptoms.
I hope my good response to 7 months on tianeptine means that I won't have any negative liver side-effects on amineptine since both are metabolised in a similar fashion. They have similar metabolites if I'm not mistaken, so good hepatic response to tianeptine should predict good response to amineptine, but I could be wrong.
I need some motivation because my lack of motivation interferes with my quality of life and is quite severe at times. Even though I don't experience major depression since being on Stablon, I still feel amotivational. Basic activities are a burden for me. Mostly I just want to sleep all the time or just sit at my computer and listen to music.
I don't like being this way and no drug but Pamelor (nortriptyline) has worked for this, however I can't take that anymore due to the large number of side effects I experienced...especially cardiotoxicity (e.g. arrhythmias, rapid heartbeat).
I developed an amotivational syndrome when I was 15 years old, approximately 18 months prior to my first panic attack. The amotivational syndrome coexisted with depression.
Posted by sukarno on October 24, 2005, at 16:54:39
In reply to Taking Stablon (tianeptine) with amineptine, posted by sukarno on October 24, 2005, at 14:38:13
Just 3 1/2 hours after I took the last dose of amineptine I can feel a different effect...somewhat like the activating feeling one gets from Prozac.
I feel a bit "wired" and the adrenaline is flowing but it is somewhat of a relief because I feel some motivation now to get up and do something. I don't think this is a placebo or psychological effect. It definitely cannot be ignored. At first I thought it was just adrenaline due to hypoglycemia, but I ate and still feel it.
I think I'll lower the dosage - or if I'm still nervous tomorrow - I'll skip it.
I can't take my 4th dose of tianeptine either. Perhaps amineptine in a low dose is all I'll need to augment tianeptine.
I'm hitting DA, NE and 5-HT now. I hope nothing disastrous occurs. I'll go to sleep now and hope for the best.Just a bit nervous is all and some "inner tension".
Posted by ed_uk on October 25, 2005, at 14:41:09
In reply to Amineptine's delayed effect, posted by sukarno on October 24, 2005, at 16:54:39
Hi P,
>I hope my good response to 7 months on tianeptine means that I won't have any negative liver side-effects on amineptine since both are metabolised in a similar fashion. They have similar metabolites if I'm not mistaken, so good hepatic response to tianeptine should predict good response to amineptine, but I could be wrong.
Have you had a liver function test while you've been on Stablon?
As a side note, I was wondering how you'd respond to a combination of reboxetine + atenolol.
~ed
Posted by sukarno on October 25, 2005, at 22:34:48
In reply to Re: Amineptine's delayed effect » sukarno, posted by ed_uk on October 25, 2005, at 14:41:09
Hi Ed! :-)
How is everything going? I did some reading about citalopram and apparently it does not rely exclusively on CYP2D6 so it might be worth a try for me if I ever discontinue Stablon... although I'm afraid of the emotional numbing of SSRIs. Prozac made me feel quite numb and indifferent to everything around me, yet I was in a great mood. :-)
I haven't had a liver function test since starting Stablon, but from what I've read, the liver damage supposedly only occurs in those who are genetically susceptible and occurs straight away (usually within 30 days) along with symptoms of rash, itching, fever and abdominal pain.
Have you heard of any cases of people who had hepatic injury after taking it for the long term?
I really should get a liver function test. Valium tends to raise my GGT and ALT enzymes so that might skew the results so I won't know if Valium or Stablon (or Survector) are doing any damage.
Last night I developed stomach pain and some nausea, but that happened after my usual calcium carbonate dosage...not sure if that was a sign of toxicity from Survector.I took only 25mg amineptine prior to bed last night and woke up feeling refreshed.... no grogginess upon awakening but I feel so weak when I get up to walk around...unusual weakness.
My appetite now is fine though.
I promise you (and myself) that I'll get that LFT done the first week of November and post the results here.
I don't understand why some people abuse amineptine... I didn't feel "high" when I took it... just an usual ease of movement..that's it.. then I felt nervous and very uncomfortably so.
Just like Prozac! hehheh. Nasty.Take care and keep me updated on the citalopram. Does it have any action on NE? It seems that NE (and also DA) are key to motivation.
Best wishes! :-)
Paul
Posted by sukarno on October 26, 2005, at 7:40:57
In reply to Taking Stablon (tianeptine) with amineptine, posted by sukarno on October 24, 2005, at 14:38:13
ugh...I'm getting dull stomach pain after eating now. This never happened prior to taking amineptine 2 days ago. :-(
I read this is rare and precedes hepatitis. I hope not.
Is this a normal side effect? It's hard to come by information on either Stablon or Survector on the internet. An abundance of information is there for Prozac, but not for the European meds. :-(
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