![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 30 to 54 of 79. Go back in thread:
Posted by Bob on May 12, 2005, at 10:00:23
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » Bob, posted by jerrympls on May 11, 2005, at 19:23:09
> Hi Bob
> Good questions you raise. I don't think my ECT treatment was considered an "emergency" treatment - it was more of a last resort becuase I wasn't responding to traditional meds. After ECT my depression got much worse and I started having panic attacks - which I had NOT had prior to treatment. I've had more "suicidal ideation" since my ECT - much much more so than prior to the treatments. I also have been in the hospital more (in psych wards) than before my ECT too. I've never attempted suicide - but have come very close. Currently I'm on a med cocktail that has kept me pretty stable and out of deep periods of severe depression. I currently take Lexapro, Klonopin, Dexedrine and hydrocodone. Yes, an opiate. My doc finally agreed to prescribe it for me and it's worked wonders - no miracle cure - but very close to "normal" and I'm able to work. I've been on opiate therapy for my depression for about 5-6 months now? and have had no problems with tolerance or abuse.
>
> Jerry
>Jerry:
Once again, you've raised a few more questions for me.
When you say you "weren't responding to traditional meds", does that mean they just weren't changing how you felt, or were they doing unpleasant things both psychologically and somatically? For me, it got to the point where my body was having extreme problems and experiencing all kinds of physical side effects.?
If you were having physical reactions to the meds before ECT, I guess it's safe to assume that you are not going through that now?
My therapist told me the other day that her recent experiences have shown that hospitals rarely keep people for more than a day or two if you go there claiming you are suicidal. Did you find this to be true? I asked her who goes in the psych ward, and she couldn't really tell me. She said that as soon as you say you are not currently suicidal, they check you out!
You said you're working now. How long did you not work? That is a wild drug combo, but it must be working pretty well if you're working.
Last question: how much Klonopin are you taking? Have you ever noticed a difference between Klonopin, and the generic Clonazepam? I've heard from some sources that the generic is possibly "dirtier".
Bob
Posted by Mr.Scott on May 12, 2005, at 12:25:28
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » jerrympls, posted by Bob on May 12, 2005, at 10:00:23
I'm surprised about bilateral ECT not working. Sometimes there is a delayed effect however. Were you recently using prescribed stimulants?
Lithium in combo w/ECT is quite offensive to the memory and sensorium. I wonder if bilateral ECT & the lithium combo is making you so out of it right now you can't tell whats going on moodwise? I Get anxious and upset if my mind isn't 'just right'. Pill side effects and what not really get me down because of my obsessive nature. Maybe a little clearing of the mind and you'll feel better?
Without a doubt I'd blame the clonazepam for the earlier breakdown. If you were anxious and obssesive to begin with (thats me btw) and then spent a week on .25mg clonazepam TID which is essentially 15mg of Valium a day plus the barbiturate or benzodiazepine anesthesia for the ECT and then stopped it you'd go into rebound. If your already anxious and distressed to begin with that rebound may have been too much.
I kid you not. I became addicted to Xanax in one pill 13 years ago because I was a wreck, I'd take it...feel better...and when it would exit my body I was in hell. I ended up in the hospital after one week of .25mg xanax TID (half of what you were on).
Posted by Mr.Scott on May 12, 2005, at 12:27:57
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » Mr.Scott, posted by Bob on May 12, 2005, at 9:28:41
If I may inquire...
Whats your current Lithium and Ativan dosage??
Posted by 4WD on May 12, 2005, at 13:53:44
In reply to Re: ECT failure?, posted by linkadge on May 9, 2005, at 19:24:31
> If you havn't tried an MAOI, then you've still got a barganing chip.
>
> The one MAOI that I tried, Parnate, was a completely different medication than any other I have tried.
>
> I have been on maybe 20 different antidepressants which were roughtly the same old story for me. All I can say was that Parnate was an "entirely different ballgame" .
>
>
> Linkadge
>
>
Linkadge,What happened that you had to d/c the Parnate if it was working so well for you? Did you have unbearable side effects?
My pdoc has told me that if the nortriptyline doesn't work his next plan is to put me on an MAOI.
Marsha
Posted by snapper on May 13, 2005, at 0:23:49
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » jerrympls, posted by Bob on May 12, 2005, at 9:44:51
amount of Clonazepam that I was taking for the first 10 or 11 treatments was slowly withdrawn by the last session. Maybe that precipitated the "breakdown" and the ECT was merely a catalyst? It was a very small amount of Clono, though, like .25mg tid, at the most. There was concern that I was having a reaction to it, with a skin rash and muscle problems.
>
Hey guys , sorry for breaking in, but I would like to say I feel qualified to comment on this thread.... In 2001 and 2002 I had a total of 27 unilateral treatments... I started to respond at about the 10 to 12 range on a Mon,Wed,Fri schedule ...it brought me out of hell and maybe even made me a little better than euthymic ....not hypo-manic, but certainly well enough to take off on a road trip from the midwest to Phoenix to help my sisters boyfriend (at the time) drive his car and a u-haul of thier belongings out there.... I think the Drs. at the time, recc. that I not go, but I was feeling so good that I went anyhow...long story short I got out there and slowly but surely started to decline to the depths of my previous level of chronic depression.... I will be completely honest with you... I got stuck out there because before I left, I had mis-placed my wallet and knew I would be flying home one way, but because of the 9/11 situation I knew for fact that I could'nt board a plane w/o proper Id. Well while I was there waiting for my parents to find my wallet , Id and such, I STUPIDLY started to think that I was well enough that I could handle some alcohol . Mind you I was still taking a combo of FXR and Depakote on the trip and knew I was going to resume the ECT treatments upon going home. An intended week to 10 day trip turned in to a five week stay, physically catching some kind of wierd flu bug (I recall it being a tenacious and persistant sickness that not only was hard to get rid of but also co-insided with my rapid decent back in to The Big "D"- I called it the dessert flu! Sorry for the ramble but my point is this .... Upon finally having my parents find my ID/wallet and Fed-exing it to me so I could fly home....I had spent 5 weeks of light to moderate imbibing on the booze and was not only physically a mess but also mentally 10 steps backward. Got home and resumed the ECT treatment for roughly 3 to 4 months to bring me back from the abyss, (it worked) and by the 27th treatment in March of 2002, my Drs. Informed me that they did not see any reason to continue w/ anymore "Maintanance ECT"! I felt "good" for 1 to 2 months max and then my De-realization, apathy, indifference, and 97.6% of my depressive and anxiety returned like like a "faithful and miserable friend" . I am not telling this to bore you or anyone but I felt complelled to at least share what I experienced, and also let you know that I am AMAZED at the fact the your attending Pdocs even allowed you to remain on any amount of Klonopin while recieving the ECT...because Anti-convulsants and any Benzodizapine totally basically renders the ECT useless, because these drugs raise the siezure threshhold and defeat the purpose of what the ECT is supposed to do....which is create a controlled Grand Mal siezure in the brain and in simple terms, "reset the the brain" ! sure it is much more than that but, thats part of the basic premise and when it works .... it works very well for a very high percentage of sick folks! Even with responce, relapse is very high...hence the concept of maintanence ECT. I will close in saying that I had the start of another courace(sp) of what was supposed to be 12 treatments Last year in Very late May and Early July...unfortunately my anxiety levels were so da*m high because of no meds on board, I barely endured 6 of the scheduled 12 to be and then told my Pdoc forget it and to treat my anxiety and he agreed and while my anxiety is much better now...my overall level of relief is roughly only 60 to 65%. I am seriously thinking of mentioning to him that I would like to go back and give my old friend Parnate another go-even though it pooped out on me after 7 to nine months in 1993, I have to keep pursuing a higher level of wellness and functioning than I am now! I have to leave no stone unturned and I hope all of us here on PB and elsewhere can continue to do the same! Thats part of my 2% (maybe) more but in any case if anyone has any comments or questions I would welcome them!
Snapper
Posted by Bob on May 14, 2005, at 9:18:36
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » Bob, posted by Mr.Scott on May 12, 2005, at 12:25:28
The last time I took anything that could be considered close to a stimulant was Welbutrin XL, but that was at least 5 or 6 months before the start of the ECT.
Yes, I would agree that the Li + ECT is doing a number on my awareness and memory. I have little windows where it doesn't seem so bad, but there are periods when the confusion gets intense, and my mood goes down with it. I completely understand how pill s/e get you down. I, and I suspect many others, are just like that. I don't think the medical community understands how that can crush the human spirit. Of course, there's little that can be done.
I was definitely already anxious and restless, and the ECT was pushing it to the edge, so a concurrent withdraw of the benzo was probably problematic. Ironically, it's been over a week and a half since the last treatment, and now I'm having attacks of drowsiness, weakness, and apathy! It's insane the way these states just flip from one to the other. My instability is astounding.
I honestly don't think doctors today accept that for some individuals, benzos are a delicate proposition.
Posted by Bob on May 14, 2005, at 9:23:36
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » Bob, posted by Mr.Scott on May 12, 2005, at 12:27:57
> If I may inquire...
>
> Whats your current Lithium and Ativan dosage??
>
>
Lithium: 450mg Eskalith at bedtime.
Ativan: 0.25mg at 7am, 4pm, and bedtime.
Posted by Bob on May 14, 2005, at 9:28:48
In reply to Re: ECT failure? NO.... AND YES!, posted by snapper on May 13, 2005, at 0:23:49
I will close in saying that I had the start of another courace(sp) of what was supposed to be 12 treatments Last year in Very late May and Early July...unfortunately my anxiety levels were so da*m high because of no meds on board, I barely endured 6 of the scheduled 12 to be and then told my Pdoc forget it and to treat my anxiety and he agreed and while my anxiety is much better now...my overall level of relief is roughly only 60 to 65%. I am seriously thinking of mentioning to him that I would like to go back and give my old friend Parnate another go-even though it pooped out on me after 7 to nine months in 1993, I have to keep pursuing a higher level of wellness and functioning than I am now! I have to leave no stone unturned and I hope all of us here on PB and elsewhere can continue to do the same! Thats part of my 2% (maybe) more but in any case if anyone has any comments or questions I would welcome them!
>
My anxiety levels can be quite high also, so I hope that doesn't mean ECT cannot work for me.I too am trying to leave no stone unturned, but it's really getting difficult. I haven't tried the MAOI's, but I'm worried about getting on one of those and then finding out it causes problems, like more anxiety, or anger etc., then not being able to withdraw.
Sometimes I gotta wonder, does anyone, anywhere, ever take an antidepressant med for years and years and not have it poop out on them?
> Snapper
Posted by Bob on May 14, 2005, at 9:36:12
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » Bob, posted by Mr.Scott on May 12, 2005, at 12:25:28
Does anyone here think that, for most people, memory fills back in over time after a series of ECT sessions? I mean, say 10 years in the future, does most of it come back?
Posted by Mr.Scott on May 18, 2005, at 2:17:00
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » Mr.Scott, posted by Bob on May 14, 2005, at 9:36:12
Everything comes back.
Posted by Bob on May 18, 2005, at 10:15:40
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » Bob, posted by Mr.Scott on May 18, 2005, at 2:17:00
> Everything comes back.
I am REALLY glad to hear that.
Posted by jerrympls on May 18, 2005, at 20:27:35
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » jerrympls, posted by Bob on May 12, 2005, at 10:00:23
>
> > Hi Bob
> > Good questions you raise. I don't think my ECT treatment was considered an "emergency" treatment - it was more of a last resort becuase I wasn't responding to traditional meds. After ECT my depression got much worse and I started having panic attacks - which I had NOT had prior to treatment. I've had more "suicidal ideation" since my ECT - much much more so than prior to the treatments. I also have been in the hospital more (in psych wards) than before my ECT too. I've never attempted suicide - but have come very close. Currently I'm on a med cocktail that has kept me pretty stable and out of deep periods of severe depression. I currently take Lexapro, Klonopin, Dexedrine and hydrocodone. Yes, an opiate. My doc finally agreed to prescribe it for me and it's worked wonders - no miracle cure - but very close to "normal" and I'm able to work. I've been on opiate therapy for my depression for about 5-6 months now? and have had no problems with tolerance or abuse.
> >
> > Jerry
> >
>
> Jerry:
>
> Once again, you've raised a few more questions for me.
>
> When you say you "weren't responding to traditional meds", does that mean they just weren't changing how you felt, or were they doing unpleasant things both psychologically and somatically? For me, it got to the point where my body was having extreme problems and experiencing all kinds of physical side effects.?They were doing both. I would have semi-partial responses with A LOT of side effects. I was on many med cocktails that just left me lethargic and cloudy. Finally the doc said: "Well, let's try Dexedrine before ECT." That worked really well for me - but he only kept me on it for 3 months or so - then took me off for reasons I can't recall and I was MORE depressed than ever. This was back in the early 1990's. I went into the hospital for the first time for the ECT treatments. A month after the treatments I was back in w/ severe anxiety and suicial ideation. They kept me in for a week.
>
> If you were having physical reactions to the meds before ECT, I guess it's safe to assume that you are not going through that now?I'm not sure what you mean exactly - but let me answer how I think you're wanting me to answer. I don't know if it's because I've been on so many meds over the years or what, but I rarely experience the side effects as strongly as I did many years ago. Also, I still only get semi-partial responses to meds. The best combo has been an SSRI + Stimulant + Benzo.
>
> My therapist told me the other day that her recent experiences have shown that hospitals rarely keep people for more than a day or two if you go there claiming you are suicidal. Did you find this to be true? I asked her who goes in the psych ward, and she couldn't really tell me. She said that as soon as you say you are not currently suicidal, they check you out!Hmm. Not from my experiences. Every time I've been in the minimum was 1 week - even if you said you weren't suicidal anymore. Plus, of the suicidal many "fellow-patients" that I got to know, most were kept in at least 2 weeks or longer. Some had been there at least a month. I guess it depends on the doctor/hospital, etc?
The last time I went in, I wasn't suicidal - I just needed a med change to an MAOI and they wanted to do it inpatient. I was in 2 weeks in order for them to wash out other meds and start me on Nardil.
>
> You said you're working now. How long did you not work? That is a wild drug combo, but it must be working pretty well if you're working.After I graduated college in 1995 - I was in bed for 2 years. Then, I got put on an SSRI + Stim combo and worked for 2 years then slumped back into depression. I finally moved to MN about 5 years ago and have been working ever since - however, my depression has taken a toll on my work attendance. I got protection under the ADA and FLMA through our Disability Services dept. which allowed me to take 12 weeks off last summer for another med change. However, since October 2004 when I went back to work, I've missed on average at least 1 day /week. Fortunately my employer has been accomodating allowing me to make up missed time, etc. Now, I'm seriously thinking about going to grad school.
>
> Last question: how much Klonopin are you taking? Have you ever noticed a difference between Klonopin, and the generic Clonazepam? I've heard from some sources that the generic is possibly "dirtier".I take 1mg 4x daily. It's the generic. I've never had the brand name so I can't tell you the difference.
Hope this helps!
>
> Bob
>
>
Posted by Bob on May 20, 2005, at 12:55:29
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » Bob, posted by jerrympls on May 18, 2005, at 20:27:35
>
> After I graduated college in 1995 - I was in bed for 2 years. Then, I got put on an SSRI + Stim combo and worked for 2 years then slumped back into depression. I finally moved to MN about 5 years ago and have been working ever since - however, my depression has taken a toll on my work attendance. I got protection under the ADA and FLMA through our Disability Services dept. which allowed me to take 12 weeks off last summer for another med change. However, since October 2004 when I went back to work, I've missed on average at least 1 day /week. Fortunately my employer has been accomodating allowing me to make up missed time, etc. Now, I'm seriously thinking about going to grad school.
> >>
> Hope this helps!It sounds like you're a real fighter. To be having that much trouble and still be able to move to different states and contemplate going to grad school is impressive. Personally, I'm on disability, and can't imagine working right now. I was missing at least a day a week before I stopped working, and had to do everything I could to hide it.
Good luck in whatever you do. Oh, and thanks for answering all my questions!
Posted by Mr.Scott on May 20, 2005, at 17:14:58
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » Bob, posted by jerrympls on May 18, 2005, at 20:27:35
Has anyone considered the timeline of their depresion and where their benzodiazepine usage was at that time?
I have certainly heard (and may be experiencing some of this) that benzos, particularly clonazepam may induce depression.
However...I have to concur with whoever said benzo+Stim+SSRI is the best combo I've had to date.
For me ECT worked great. I had 6-8 treatments, (right unilateral) and was doing very well. After 5 months the effect dissipated. I am now considering maintenance ECT. My doc suggests starting once a week for 3 weeks and then continuing to spread it out until once every 2 months for maintenace. The only impairment I had was from the anesthesia. No memory problems at all. Some day's I even went to work after a treatment (which was highly ill advised by my doc). I guess everyone is different in how they respond to all this stuff.
I'm interested in the opiate thing. After all morphine was the treatment of choice for depression at one time.
Scott
Posted by jerrympls on May 20, 2005, at 17:26:21
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » jerrympls, posted by Bob on May 20, 2005, at 12:55:29
>
> >
> > After I graduated college in 1995 - I was in bed for 2 years. Then, I got put on an SSRI + Stim combo and worked for 2 years then slumped back into depression. I finally moved to MN about 5 years ago and have been working ever since - however, my depression has taken a toll on my work attendance. I got protection under the ADA and FLMA through our Disability Services dept. which allowed me to take 12 weeks off last summer for another med change. However, since October 2004 when I went back to work, I've missed on average at least 1 day /week. Fortunately my employer has been accomodating allowing me to make up missed time, etc. Now, I'm seriously thinking about going to grad school.
> > >
>
> >
> > Hope this helps!
>
>
>
> It sounds like you're a real fighter. To be having that much trouble and still be able to move to different states and contemplate going to grad school is impressive. Personally, I'm on disability, and can't imagine working right now. I was missing at least a day a week before I stopped working, and had to do everything I could to hide it.
>
> Good luck in whatever you do. Oh, and thanks for answering all my questions!
>
>I never thought I could move and hold a 9 to 5 job either. 4 years ago when I moved here and got a job it was easy to hide my depression. But, in the past couple years it's been VERY difficult. I finally couldn't hide it or pretend anymore. I even applied for short-term disability and was declined!! Luckily, my manager also has depression and has been very understanding. However, 9 to 5 isn't what I want to do with my life. I want to perform music (that's what my degree is in). So, a return to grad school for my master's in music performance makes sense to me. I can barely make it through a week working.
I guess we just keep chugging along....
Posted by Bob on May 20, 2005, at 17:44:37
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » Bob, posted by jerrympls on May 20, 2005, at 17:26:21
>
> I never thought I could move and hold a 9 to 5 job either. 4 years ago when I moved here and got a job it was easy to hide my depression. But, in the past couple years it's been VERY difficult. I finally couldn't hide it or pretend anymore. I even applied for short-term disability and was declined!! Luckily, my manager also has depression and has been very understanding. However, 9 to 5 isn't what I want to do with my life. I want to perform music (that's what my degree is in). So, a return to grad school for my master's in music performance makes sense to me. I can barely make it through a week working.
>
> I guess we just keep chugging along....
>It was very difficult for me to get approved for my disability. I was really lucky.
Yeah, so far, I'm still chugging along.
Posted by jerrympls on May 20, 2005, at 18:06:53
In reply to Re: ECT failure?, posted by Mr.Scott on May 20, 2005, at 17:14:58
> Has anyone considered the timeline of their depresion and where their benzodiazepine usage was at that time?
>
> I have certainly heard (and may be experiencing some of this) that benzos, particularly clonazepam may induce depression.
>
> However...I have to concur with whoever said benzo+Stim+SSRI is the best combo I've had to date.
>
> For me ECT worked great. I had 6-8 treatments, (right unilateral) and was doing very well. After 5 months the effect dissipated. I am now considering maintenance ECT. My doc suggests starting once a week for 3 weeks and then continuing to spread it out until once every 2 months for maintenace. The only impairment I had was from the anesthesia. No memory problems at all. Some day's I even went to work after a treatment (which was highly ill advised by my doc). I guess everyone is different in how they respond to all this stuff.
>
> I'm interested in the opiate thing. After all morphine was the treatment of choice for depression at one time.
>
> ScottScott- I have heard many successful stories like yours involving maintenance ECT treatment. I'm so glad that you don't have the memory problems. I would go for the maintenance treatments especially if the ECT helped you for 5 months before it pooped out.
My doc has me on benzo+stim+ssri+opiate (hydrocodone) now and it's been the best combo so far for me. I wish I didn't have to reply on a stimulant to get me up and going - it's scary to know that if I don't take my stimulant that I'll just sit on the couch all day or sleep and escape from the world. But, until we find something better I'll keep taking it to keep me going.
Opiate therapy is used more than people know. Mainly at bigger teaching hospitals/universities where they experiment with a lot of off-lable stuff and help drug companies conduct clinical trials. The University of Minnesota is one such place. Even though I see a resident, his attending ok'ed the opiate trials - and I'm not the only one. I found out that a handful of the staff psychiatrists on faculty who are involved with depression research/treatment have tried opiate treatments with other patients - some successful and others not. So far I've been a success. It's been Since December 2004 when I began the opiate and to date I have NO tolerance issues nor do I feel the need to increase the dosage or take more than what the doc prescribed.
It wasn't easy getting to the point where I am with doctors willing to try opiates - and it's not a cure-all - but it helps a lot.
Jerry
Posted by Bob on May 20, 2005, at 18:12:28
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » Mr.Scott, posted by jerrympls on May 20, 2005, at 18:06:53
>
> My doc has me on benzo+stim+ssri+opiate (hydrocodone) now and it's been the best combo so far for me. I wish I didn't have to reply on a stimulant to get me up and going - it's scary to know that if I don't take my stimulant that I'll just sit on the couch all day or sleep and escape from the world. But, until we find something better I'll keep taking it to keep me going.
>
> Opiate therapy is used more than people know. Mainly at bigger teaching hospitals/universities where they experiment with a lot of off-lable stuff and help drug companies conduct clinical trials. The University of Minnesota is one such place. Even though I see a resident, his attending ok'ed the opiate trials - and I'm not the only one. I found out that a handful of the staff psychiatrists on faculty who are involved with depression research/treatment have tried opiate treatments with other patients - some successful and others not. So far I've been a success. It's been Since December 2004 when I began the opiate and to date I have NO tolerance issues nor do I feel the need to increase the dosage or take more than what the doc prescribed.
>
> It wasn't easy getting to the point where I am with doctors willing to try opiates - and it's not a cure-all - but it helps a lot.
>
> JerryJerry:
What exactly does opiate treatment do? Does it address anxiety, or give people energy and motivation, or what? I would figure that opiates would knock me out and have me sleeping all day.
Bob
Posted by Bob on May 20, 2005, at 18:16:07
In reply to Re: ECT failure?, posted by Mr.Scott on May 20, 2005, at 17:14:58
>
> For me ECT worked great. I had 6-8 treatments, (right unilateral) and was doing very well. After 5 months the effect dissipated. I am now considering maintenance ECT. My doc suggests starting once a week for 3 weeks and then continuing to spread it out until once every 2 months for maintenace. The only impairment I had was from the anesthesia. No memory problems at all. Some day's I even went to work after a treatment (which was highly ill advised by my doc). I guess everyone is different in how they respond to all this stuff.
>
> ScottScott:
I would definitely recommend that you restart the ECT if it worked that well for you. Needless to say, my experience with ECT has not been nearly as good. I'm going in for my 17th treatment next week, and I'm not sure it's doing anything but making me worse any longer. I'm going to ask my doctors once again how much longer I should be trying it, but I'm afraid I'll be stopping soon. Problem is, I just don't know what I'll do next. I hate the meds so much I can't even put it into words.
Bob
Posted by ed_uk on May 20, 2005, at 18:23:29
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » Mr.Scott, posted by jerrympls on May 20, 2005, at 18:06:53
Hi Jerry,
Did you stop Lunesta?
Kind regards,
Ed.PS. Did you sleep any better on oxycodone than on hydrocodone?
Posted by Mr.Scott on May 20, 2005, at 18:28:04
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » Mr.Scott, posted by Bob on May 20, 2005, at 18:16:07
Hi,
Are you doing unilateral or bilateral? Any other meds on board?
Scott
Posted by 4WD on May 21, 2005, at 0:17:10
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » Mr.Scott, posted by Bob on May 20, 2005, at 18:16:07
>
>
>
>
>
> Scott:
>
> I would definitely recommend that you restart the ECT if it worked that well for you. Needless to say, my experience with ECT has not been nearly as good. I'm going in for my 17th treatment next week, and I'm not sure it's doing anything but making me worse any longer. I'm going to ask my doctors once again how much longer I should be trying it, but I'm afraid I'll be stopping soon. Problem is, I just don't know what I'll do next. I hate the meds so much I can't even put it into words.
>
> BobBob,
Have you considered the VNS implant? Some people have gotten really good results. And then there's the DBS (deep brain stimulation) treatment that's being tested now. Have you seen an endocrinologist?
I guess my point is, don't give up. There are new drugs every month it seems and new treatments.
Hang in there.
Marsha
Posted by Bob on May 21, 2005, at 10:25:45
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » Bob, posted by Mr.Scott on May 20, 2005, at 18:28:04
> Hi,
>
> Are you doing unilateral or bilateral? Any other meds on board?
>
> Scott
I think something like the first 3 of my 16 treatments so far were unilateral. After that they have been bilateral. After the first couple treatments, 450mg of Li was added, as well as something like .25mg of Clonazepam a couple times per day. Then the Clonazepam was taken away. It was taken away due to concerns with muscle discomfort and a rash, but I had a "breakdown of sorts after my 15th treatment in the beginning of May. Nobody really knows why, but I feel like it may have been the withdrawl of the minute amounts of Clonazepam. The doctors don't think it was a reaction to the ECT itself, although I have my doubts about that. I'm taking Ativan now, and I had another treatment last Wednesday. I am quite leery of what is going down here, as on most days I feel anxious and depressed in the mornings (and sometimes for most of the day), and then feel a little better in the late evening and night. Then, it starts all over again the next day. I also spend many days feeling drowsy and tired, when I'm not feeling anxious and depressed, which causes me to hesitate adding more Ativan and Li to the mix.Crazy, huh?
Posted by Bob on May 21, 2005, at 10:33:05
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » Bob, posted by 4WD on May 21, 2005, at 0:17:10
> >
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Scott:
> >
> > I would definitely recommend that you restart the ECT if it worked that well for you. Needless to say, my experience with ECT has not been nearly as good. I'm going in for my 17th treatment next week, and I'm not sure it's doing anything but making me worse any longer. I'm going to ask my doctors once again how much longer I should be trying it, but I'm afraid I'll be stopping soon. Problem is, I just don't know what I'll do next. I hate the meds so much I can't even put it into words.
> >
> > Bob
>
> Bob,
>
> Have you considered the VNS implant? Some people have gotten really good results. And then there's the DBS (deep brain stimulation) treatment that's being tested now. Have you seen an endocrinologist?
>
> I guess my point is, don't give up. There are new drugs every month it seems and new treatments.
>
> Hang in there.
>
> Marsha
>
>Thanks for the encouragement, Marsha. I was actually involved in a VNS study here at the University of Maryland, until it fell apart financially, and the chance to actually get the device disappeared. That lasted a couple years, actually, where I would go down there every couple weeks and answer questions and fill out forms. I guess if that thing gets officially approved, I might be able to get it put in, but the percentage of people who respond to the device doesn't seem very encouraging - I think it's under 20%. I also wouldn't want to go through surgery to get a device implanted and then have it cause and episode of panic and suicidality. Not that it necessarily would, but I haven't had real good luck so far.
As far the the DBS is concerned, I think it would be very difficult to get this, as it is only offered in studies, as far as I know, and getting in those studies is can be quite difficult. I guess we'll see.
BTW, what new medecines are you talking about that are coming out?
Posted by jerrympls on May 21, 2005, at 12:57:15
In reply to Re: ECT failure? » jerrympls, posted by ed_uk on May 20, 2005, at 18:23:29
> Hi Jerry,
>
> Did you stop Lunesta?
>
> Kind regards,
> Ed.
>
> PS. Did you sleep any better on oxycodone than on hydrocodone?Hi Ed-
Lunesta doesn't seem to be helping much and the doc won't prescribe me two opiates.
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