![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 8603 to 8627 of 10407. Go back in thread:
Posted by Chairman_MAO on May 7, 2005, at 13:38:19
In reply to Effexor and alcohol use and thoughts, posted by Mr.Scott on May 6, 2005, at 10:45:49
I agree with the akathesia hypothesis. That is part of why many people increase their substance use/abue on SSRIs, IMHO. The two other other reasons I believe are:
1) The SSRIs flatten out emotions so much that people are eager to feel ANYTHING different, and substances do that.
2) The SSRI mitigates the undesirable side effects of the other drug, such as SSRIs eliminating pot paranoia, for example.
These SSRI drugs are bad karma, man. Laugh at me if you want, but I don't think I've ever had anyone tell me in person they liked taking an SSRI.
Posted by Phillipa on May 7, 2005, at 18:17:00
In reply to Re: Effexor and alcohol use and thoughts » Mr.Scott, posted by Chairman_MAO on May 7, 2005, at 13:38:19
Staycee, A benzo is something to calm you. You are taking a benzo right now if I read your post correctly. Ativan is a benzodiazepine. Also valium, xanax, klonopin, tranxene. Someone else help me out if I've forgotten any. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by 1Emily on May 8, 2005, at 18:46:36
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? YES! , posted by Shel on July 18, 2000, at 1:35:45
I have been on effexor for 9 days at 37.5 mgs time released caps. I just sleep and am not getting any work done. Should I stop? This may not be the right medication for me. I am suffering from situational depression. In my life I have suffered such depressions two times that I can remember otherwise I am generally not depressions.
Posted by Kotari on May 9, 2005, at 7:59:13
In reply to Re: Effexor and alcohol use and thoughts » Kotari, posted by Mr.Scott on May 7, 2005, at 9:18:23
Scott,
Thanks much for the Info. I do think trying to increase my dose of effexor above 75 mg is what triggered the headaches. I had similar headaches and vertigo type symptoms when I first began these meds, but only just now made the connection. These are some powerful meds. In my opinion, effexor DOES work on neuropathic pain, just like the claims for cymbalta, although it was not tested for that as cymbalta was. I think I'll stick with the effexor at this dose and maybe try adding the wellbutrin. But I WILL ask my doc.
> Hi,
>
> I've never heard anyone report improved sex drive from Effexor at any dose. Perhaps if you're near incapacitated, any antidepressant will help but wellbutrin is reportedly more likely than Effexor to achieve this. Don't expect much dopamine action from Effexor and certainly not until around 300mg. However, wellbutrin made 'me' climb the walls while amphetamine does not!! Effex might be causing the headaches, these meds elude even their manufacturers understanding. If the headaches are new it probably is the cause.
>
> In a nut shell...increasing serotonin inhibits the action of dopamine in the nigra-striatal region of the brain (differently for everyone, and with varying sensitivities). In this region dopamine acts as an 'inhibitory' neurotransmitter over acetycholine. This region is frequently associated with movement among other things. Through this cascade of increasing serotonin leading to decreased dopamine and increased acetycholine 'can' a person experience akathisia and other EPS symptoms. Not common from ssri/snri's but it does happen. When it does think of parkinson's symptoms, and related changes in muscle tone or rigidity, restlessness, etc.
>
> But I would say if you can't tolerate the side effects of a higher dose, or/and you feel you need more antidepressant action you should talk to your doc. Thats what they get paid for.
>
> To listen to us whine and ask for pills :-)!
>
>
>
> > Scott,
> >
> > I did experience akasthesia on the low dose of zyprexa - literally could not sit still and wanted to jump out of my skin. It would only last for 15-20 mins., but very uncomfortable. Never had anything like that with the effexor, but I recently have been trying to increase my dose above 75 mg. and have been nervously chewing my fingers to bits. Very unattractive.
> >
> > I am interested in what you said about DOPAMINE. The psych who wanted me to increase the effexor said I would get more dopamine with the higher dose and my sex drive would improve. I think that increasng the dose has caused the migraines. Did not know that low dopamine could cause that restlessness problem. Are there other effects that you know of?
> >
> > I am seriously considering asking to doc to add wellbutrin to my mix, to see if I can increase dopamine that way.
> >
> > Anyone else out there take this mix? I'm also taking trazadone at night and it would be great to be able to skip this and still be able to sleep.
> >
> > Kotari
> >
>
>
Posted by Liz1977 on May 11, 2005, at 1:36:39
In reply to Effexor = No sleep, posted by heather3781 on April 15, 2005, at 10:35:16
Heather I had the same exact side effects. Sitting at work and unable to stop tappin my foot or fidgeting.. The side effects got worse too.I had horrible hot flashes and sweats a LOT.. felt faint a lot.. I was a motor mouth.. talked so quickly and TOO MUCH! lol lost a pile of weight.. I think from all that fidgeting! :)Eventually I got off it. The side effects weren't worth it. Although I did feel great from what I remember. Another side effect was being forgetful :) I have a few friends who were on it and they all had the same or WORSE side effects. I'm on St. John Wort and 5-HTP now.. herbal remedies.
IF any of you are sick of the antidepressants might want to check out this forum:
http://www.sjwinfo.org/forums/forums.shtml
Everything you ever wanted to know about starting.
Cheers!
Posted by jadedmystry on May 13, 2005, at 14:04:38
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
I have never been on different meds for over a year for depression, conditon spun out of control and could have been fatal, doctor gave me Trazodone with Effexor as a combo over 2 1/2 months ago. The combo works very well for me, and I feel good, but I do have the jittery side effects I have seen everyone mention, but no insomnia, the trazodone helps that, and I have lost 15 lbs, but I am happy about that.
Posted by corafree on May 15, 2005, at 17:20:07
In reply to Re: Combinig Trazodone w/ Effexor ....working well, posted by jadedmystry on May 13, 2005, at 14:04:38
That is my old combo ...
Effexor-XR day and trazodone for sleep. You have to get sleep. It did work well.
Best wishes, cf
Posted by Sabino on May 15, 2005, at 21:07:52
In reply to Re: Combinig Trazodone w/ Effexor ....working well » jadedmystry, posted by corafree on May 15, 2005, at 17:20:07
Just curious, anyone tried both Remeron and Trazadone, and if so, which do you prefer (just for sleep, not for AD effect)?
This is my 19th day on Eff XR, (4th on 150 mgs). Had the daytime fatigue, dry mouth, and insomnia at night upon starting. I did 37.5 for two days, but then I decided that with my really fast metabolism, I needed to dose twice daily, so then I did 37.5 twice daily for about 5 or 6 days, then 112.5 for about a week, and the last 4 days at 150 (75 at 10 a.m., and 75 at 5 p.m). Think I read where you were doing likewise.
All the side effects except the insomnia had pretty much resolved in about two weeks.
I had to take a couple of weeks off because of depression and anxiety for the first time in my life. I've had both those issues for many, many years, but never had to take more than the occasional day off because of them, but I got to the point where I needed to either try to fix those issues, or otherwise make my exit.
Have tried a bunch of antidepressants in the past 11 years. I found the side effects to be so bothersome that I only really took two at what could be called therapeutic doses, but even with them, I could only handle them on the low end of the scale. I took Zoloft (50 and 100 variably), and Remeron, mostly at 15mgs.
With the fast metabolism, I burn right through drugs.
So now, this recent try of Effexor XR. Fully expected to feel terrible from it, but to my surprise the side effects have not been bad. Fairly easily tolerated (being home from work the last 3 weeks as I've tried this has helped).
I'm not crazy about Remeron. I think it causes a lot of lability in me (so does Serzone), but with this Effexor insomnia, Ambien doesn't even put a dent in it, so I take a puny amount of Remeron (7.5 mg) to aid sleep.
I'm really hoping Effexor works. I've never been in full remission, (partial is the best I've managed), and I've been depressed since I was a teenager, and I'm a 49 year old male.
Sorry for the long post, and thanks for listening.
Posted by corafree on May 15, 2005, at 21:51:10
In reply to Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by Sabino on May 15, 2005, at 21:07:52
No Remeron use here; traz just worked fine and had no hang-over feelings. If your curious that I say was on, it is because I am now on mood stabilizers. Boy am I getting fat!!! I laugh and think I look like the girl on Willie Wonka that turned into the blueberry! Everybody knows her right?? I'm sorry, as to your post, just wanted you to know never had reason to try Remeron; at least never suggested for any reason. cf
Posted by 4WD on May 15, 2005, at 22:28:46
In reply to Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by Sabino on May 15, 2005, at 21:07:52
Trazadone worked well for sleep for me. Start low, though. The first time I took it, I took half a pill and slept twelve hours. It took a few days to get used to it and not feel hung over. I couldn't continue taking it, though because after a few days I started getting restless legs really really badly.
Posted by jonnie on May 16, 2005, at 0:04:21
In reply to Re: effexor xr and side effects, posted by Cindy W on April 23, 2000, at 20:48:09
I was suppose to start Effexor XR a couple of weeks ago, but i am to nervous about the possible sexual side effects. For me sexual side effects are as bad as the original problem i'm trying to fix - i.e. depression.
Should i even bother with Effexor XR
Posted by jadedmystry on May 16, 2005, at 9:04:57
In reply to Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by Sabino on May 15, 2005, at 21:07:52
Don't worry about having a long story to tell, it is better out than in, and we are here to share. I don't mean to be intrusive, but I just wanted to comment and ask you a question. I have just recently missed time at work for the first time since I have been diagnosed. It became impossible for me to function. I just wondered if you did anything besides the meds. I decided to see a therapist, because I know for me that the meds are no longer enough. I guess I am asking did you do anything that helped you get thru besides the medication. If I put you on the spot I am sorry, I don't mean to pry. By all means let me know if it is none of my buisness.
Posted by jadedmystry on May 16, 2005, at 9:19:37
In reply to Re: effexor xr and side effects, posted by jonnie on May 16, 2005, at 0:04:21
> I was suppose to start Effexor XR a couple of weeks ago, but i am to nervous about the possible sexual side effects. For me sexual side effects are as bad as the original problem i'm trying to fix - i.e. depression.
>
> Should i even bother with Effexor XRWELL....to be honest there are some effects, or at least it was for me. Some days I had very heightened awareness, a simple touch drove me up the wall, needless to say I avoided walking in crowds those days, and then there were days that I was totally uninterested, and could not get exited if I wanted to. I had more days where I was feeling nothing, than those intense days. So you do have to factor that in to your decision. Of course everyone is different, it may not affect you at all.
Posted by redjr on May 16, 2005, at 11:01:15
In reply to Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by Sabino on May 15, 2005, at 21:07:52
Sabino,
I was on Effexor for about 2 weeks before my GP switched me to Cymbalta. Besides having negative sexual side effects, I was still plagued with insomnia. She thought that maybe the Cymbalta would help both. Well, after being on Cymbalta for 10 days now, I can honestly say it has not fixed the sexual side effects, nor lessened the insomnia. I too, have a high metabolism - since being a teenager. Most of my adult life I have been taking Elavil (in small amounts) just as a sleep agent and not for depression. Since starting the recent, new drug therapy for depression however, my GP took me off the Elavil and put me on Ambien for sleep. Well, like you say, Ambien has worked with limited success for me and never effectively overcame the side-effects of either the Effexor, or Cymbalta. Not being able to get a good, sound nights sleep alone can lead to depression! Not to mention a host of other issues that we as adults should not have to worry about during our day - when we're just trying to survive in the first place. On a ppositive note, I must say that from a mood standpoint, the Effexor was far more effective than the Cymbalta has been. I generally felt better (more upbeat) on the Effexor than now on the Cymbalta.
So, having said all of that, I have another appointment with my GP in a couple of weeks, and I'm going to suggest she switch me to Remeron. I understand it's not as bad on the sexual side effects, but I also realaize that everyone is different and can be affected differently by these drugs. Hopefully it will help with the insomnia as well.
Another new sleep drug that been advertised recently is Lunesta. Maybe you've seen the ads. It supposed to provide a better nights sleep without the next-day groggy feelings. And it has been approved for long term use for us stubborn insomniacs! I may investigate the use of this instead of Ambien as a longer term solution to my sleep issues if they cannot be resolved with the normal treatment of the ADs.
I am a 53 yr old male.
Cheers,
redjr...
Posted by redjr on May 16, 2005, at 13:11:32
In reply to Re: effexor xr and side effects, posted by jonnie on May 16, 2005, at 0:04:21
> I was suppose to start Effexor XR a couple of weeks ago, but i am to nervous about the possible sexual side effects. For me sexual side effects are as bad as the original problem i'm trying to fix - i.e. depression.
>
> Should i even bother with Effexor XRI was on Effexor for a couple of weeks before switching to Cmybalta due to the negative sexual side affects and insomnia. However, the Cymbalta hasn't been much better. If anything, it has been worse on my mood and side affects! Supposedly, the sustained dosage levels of these ADs can dramatically alter the early side affects. So, maybe it was a time factor for me. Everyone is different though.
Insmonia is my biggest problem now, as I just can't function on 3-4 hours of sleep a night - restless sleep at that! I'm taking Ambien, but that seems to be a hit or miss proposition. I'm going to suggest to my GP I try Lunesta which is a brand new sleep agent/drug approved for longer term use.
Effexor was effective at controlling my mood and depression though.
redjr...
Posted by Sabino on May 16, 2005, at 19:34:11
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep » Sabino, posted by corafree on May 15, 2005, at 21:51:10
Well, better fat and happy, than thin and depressed... at least I think so.
I'm still working on the happy part, and hoping Effexor will work.
Hope you're doing well. No AD's; just mood stabilizer? How's that working out?
Take care.
Posted by Sabino on May 16, 2005, at 19:44:58
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by jadedmystry on May 16, 2005, at 9:04:57
Hi Jaded,
I've also been to a therapist twice now. Have another appt with her in about two weeks. Other than the Effexor XR, just stayed home for 3 weeks, and did some walking a few times a week.
Really was great to get away from work for awhile. I work in I.T., and I find that depression and anxiety and stress had really badly effected my concentration, memory, and ability to retain info. I was increasingly feeling like I couldn't do my job, and was more and more reclusive after work. I really was at the end of my rope, and something had to give.
Today was first day back to work. I'm still not really feeling up to it. I'm hoping the Effexor will kick in. Think this is day 20, but only day 5 on 150 mgs. I definitely had a fair bit of anxiety today at work. Felt fine once I left. If I can just get somebody to pay me for not working, I think I'll have this depression thing licked :-)
Posted by Sabino on May 16, 2005, at 19:54:46
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by redjr on May 16, 2005, at 11:01:15
Redjr,
Sorry the Cymbalta didn't work out. Jury's still out w/Effexor for me. Depression had made dating out of the question for me, so I'm not as concerned about the sexual SE's, but if/when I feel well enough to date, hopefully that SE will have abated. Who knows...
Now, I have taken Remeron for about six months. If your depression is an agitated one, and your really in a pit, it'll pull you out and give you the best sleep you've ever had. You do get accustomed to the sedation, but for me, it never fully went away (I'm talking daytime now). The sleep it provides is seductive though. It's wonderful if you've had really bad insomnia.
Good luck with it. Check back in on this thread if you feel like it and let me know how it goes.
Take care...
Posted by StayceeIB on May 16, 2005, at 20:06:43
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by Sabino on May 16, 2005, at 19:44:58
just wondering has anyone here ever said NO to meds and tried to just beat the anxiety and depression with out? Ok with out daily meds and some ativan when needed and no sleep aid even though it is impossible to sleep(ambien does not work tho I have it)???? I really am anti-med ..but not sure if i will get worse or will i be ok with alot of hard work with my therapist..
anyone thoughts ?? advice?
Posted by Phillipa on May 16, 2005, at 21:01:34
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by StayceeIB on May 16, 2005, at 20:06:43
Read the "I've Had It Thread down the Board. It is about not taking meds and the damage they cause. I took remeron and it didn't help sleep. Either does ambien, valium, chloral hydrate. I'm going through a hard time right now and maybe we all just want a "quick fix". And nothing really works. The drug companies get richer and so do the pdocs. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by corafree on May 16, 2005, at 23:01:14
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; better sleep Cora, posted by Sabino on May 16, 2005, at 19:34:11
I think I really experience life as it is now, instead of standing back and watching it. I mean, if I'm lonely,...it's because I really have a right to be; I've been alone too long! If I'm bored, its kind of fun to sit back and wait for someone else to drop the emotional ball - it always used to be me. Maybe the mood stabilizers were what I needed all along; I just don't have clear symptoms of bipolar!? The weight gain, well I don't know what it is about them that make you feel so ravenous you reach for the closest edible thing?!? But, I used to exercise, and I know I could distribute this weight w/ a run 3x a week. Unfortunately doc says I have to fast walk now. I used to laugh at seeing people fast walk, ya' know looks like they have to go to the bathroom and are too embarrassed to run ... ha! Guess I'll have to join the fast walkers or find another form of inexpensive exercise. You should know that my nerves were fried ... that was what the breakdown was all about. Besides the two 'so-called' mood stabilizers, I am on a long-acting benzo. I haven't had an anxiety or panic attack since this whole regimen change. And, that/they were a big prob'. My suicidal ideation has all but gone away. But, now, I'm 53-y/o, and I don't know if this regimen would have been what I needed 20yrs ago. I'll never know. I do know the breakdown and docs who changed me from ADs to mood stabilizers and a long-acting benzo saved my life. My life is pretty lonely, but part of that is me. I'm very picky and have been through a lot of abuse, so am mistrustful and fearful. I have a nice therapist right now ... no heavy stuff. Sometimes I'll take 100mg Seroquel to sleep and sometimes feel I need 200mg. I've not yet (seems like forever) found a good P. See a temp. this week. I've got questions about the need for two stabilizers. Whoa, like you wanted to hear my life story...huh? I'm trying to fast the remainder of this day. I had a good sandwish at lunch. This place, someone/you asking how I'm doing, is great therapy. I'm having some trouble w/ this old computer though, but children are trying to help me keep it running. They know I've got to have my computer! best wishes, me
Posted by redjr on May 17, 2005, at 9:39:23
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by StayceeIB on May 16, 2005, at 20:06:43
> just wondering has anyone here ever said NO to meds and tried to just beat the anxiety and depression with out? Ok with out daily meds and some ativan when needed and no sleep aid even though it is impossible to sleep(ambien does not work tho I have it)???? I really am anti-med ..but not sure if i will get worse or will i be ok with alot of hard work with my therapist..
>
> anyone thoughts ?? advice?
>
StayceeIB,I understand where you're going with that argument, and if depression were simply a 'state-of-mind', then I would say there's some merit. However, more often than not, depression is related to a chemical imbalance in the brain. This in turn can upset proper hormone levels that help to keep us functioning in a normal world - and more importantly in a 'normal' way. In the stress related world we all live in it can even be more devastating when the levels are out of wack - for whatever reason. At a minimum ADs have helped millions by 'leveling the playing field' in what otherwise would be an intolerable world.
I don't see problems with our brain and associated glands any differently then other organs of our body that are treated every day with chemicals to treat and fight disease. Would you just say NO to aspirin if you had a headache? Would you just say NO to penicillin if you had pneumonia? Would you just say NO to vitamin C if you had a bad cold? Would you say NO to a cast if you broke your arm? Why would you say NO to certain ADs if they help to pull you out of the depths of severe depression - possibly brought on by a chemical imbalance?
Let me relate a personal story where I acted as my own advocate suggesting many times what the physicians might be looking for. About 5 years ago, I was plagued with fatigue, lack of strength, and general malaise. My GP at the time could not find anything physically wrong with me. But depsite the medical communities efforts, I continued to battle the symptoms, subtle loss of muscle mass, lack of any sex drive and interest, concentration, focus, memory and others. Sounds like depression doesn't it? I scoured the Internet for answers. After a couple of years of no answers, I developed a severe pain in left shoulder that shot down my right leg via the sciatica nerve. My GP referred me to an orthopedic specialist. At the end of his exam, while he was writing prescriptions for related lab tests I asked him if it would be a good idea to get a bone density test as well. He asked if I had some history with fractures, and I told there had been a couple of incidents. He agreed to the bone density test.
His tests revealed a degenerated disc in my neck that was pinching a nerve affecting my shoulder and leg. But more importantly, the bone density test(BDT) revealed something far more sinister going on with my body. Due to the positive results of the BDT he referred me to a local endocrinologist(endo).
The endo prescribed more test - blood work for testosterone and other hormone levels, as well as an MRI of my brain. The results were very interesting to say the least.
The blood work revealed that my testosterone level was way off the chart in the wrong direction (read low) for a 51 yr old man. The MRI revealed further clues to the mystery - a benign micronoma(cyst) on my pituitary gland. So, as a result he started me on testosterone injections, as well as Fosamax for bone density supplement. That was 2 years ago. The testosterone alone has made me feel like a new man - with a renewed lease on my sexual life! My muscle mass is improving and bones are getting stronger.
I'm not a doctor, but I do know the pituitary gland is vitally important to our overall well-being. It's kind of like a hormone traffic cop, that regulates the control of many other adrenal glands, testes and other organs via an internal feedback system. It's buried at the base/stem of our brain(probably for the added protection it needs) because it is so vital. Now, is it possible that a cyst could upset the delicate balance and flow of signals sent to and from the pituitary gland causing possible chemical imbalance of other hormones? Quite possible ideed.
I will agree that many times general medicine treats the symptoms and not the root cause. We do know that stress can directly affect the proper functioning of our bodies as well. But, in many cases there can be something that's physically out of wack that manisfests itself in physical, or 'mental' sysmptoms.
Sorry for such a long post.
redjr...
Posted by StayceeIB on May 17, 2005, at 11:26:24
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by redjr on May 17, 2005, at 9:39:23
"Would you just say NO to aspirin if you had a headache?" YES I have very often.... "Would you say NO to a cast if you broke your arm?" ..I juts got out of cast from BROKEN HAND and never took any of the percocets an dtrust me there was pain!! I had to haveit rebroke and manipulated break was that bad :( Why would you say NO to certain ADs if they help to pull you out of the depths of severe depression - possibly brought on by a chemical imbalance? BECAUSE I NEEED to know if I can cope with out...I used to have daily anxiety attacks prior to 3 weks ago and ironically that is exactly when i told a doc NO to effexor..IRONIC or Empowerment?? Trsut me my depresson and anxiety WERE and sill may be bad..I still have trouble leaving house BUT I DO it eventually.. But really the empowerment bit comes from my therapist..he says when i told the DOC no to meds I took control and decided on something..which is empowering instself...(FYI Decisions are very hard for me)..
Is it really impossible to beat this without meds? That is depressing alone to me becuase I a not sure I will ever say yes to them.
Posted by redjr on May 17, 2005, at 12:15:48
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by StayceeIB on May 17, 2005, at 11:26:24
> "Would you just say NO to aspirin if you had a headache?" YES I have very often.... "Would you say NO to a cast if you broke your arm?" ..I juts got out of cast from BROKEN HAND and never took any of the percocets an dtrust me there was pain!! I had to haveit rebroke and manipulated break was that bad :( Why would you say NO to certain ADs if they help to pull you out of the depths of severe depression - possibly brought on by a chemical imbalance? BECAUSE I NEEED to know if I can cope with out...I used to have daily anxiety attacks prior to 3 weks ago and ironically that is exactly when i told a doc NO to effexor..IRONIC or Empowerment?? Trsut me my depresson and anxiety WERE and sill may be bad..I still have trouble leaving house BUT I DO it eventually.. But really the empowerment bit comes from my therapist..he says when i told the DOC no to meds I took control and decided on something..which is empowering instself...(FYI Decisions are very hard for me)..
>
> Is it really impossible to beat this without meds? That is depressing alone to me becuase I a not sure I will ever say yes to them.Yes, you can 'cope' without them and be miserable in the process. Why? For what gain? Just to say you had the personal 'empowerment' to do so without chemicals? Everyone is different and their tolerance for pain - be it physical or mental - varies. I can't answer that question for you. But what if your depression and anxiety is truly related to a chemical imbalance that can't be fixed without an offset of the correct man-made chemicals? How does empowerment fix that? Could my low testosterone improve on it's own? Absolutely not. All the personal empowerment in the world will not change that fact. Sure, I could have continued living without the injections and have a much lower quality of life. No sex life, continued loss of bone and muscle mass. But for me, outside help seemed to be a reasonable solution with no negative side affects. I had to have external assistance. I believe our brain is no different. Sometime the level of the normal chemicals it produces are not enough. It needs help. Maybe just in the short term too - to help get us beyond the affects of external forces, pressures, stresses and other life situations that place our chemical levels at risk. And we do scientifically know that can be placed at risk.
No, it's not impossible to beat depression w/o meds, but I for one believe that God gave doctors the brains(no pun intended) to help heal people and chemists compounds to help heal people too. To take your argument to it's logically conclusion would suggest that we don't do anything, or take anything for pain, or whatever might ale us. Just exist. Just endure. Just 'buck up' and try to solve our problems on our own - without intervention.
Believe me, I share your pain and the affects depression can have on our lives. I wouldn't be in this forum if I didn't. And sometimes just knowing other people are experiencing the same pain lets us know we're not alone in our struggle or quest to find an answer and somehow make it better - even if incrementally better over time.
redjr...
Posted by jadedmystry on May 17, 2005, at 12:16:59
In reply to Re: Effexor w/ Traz or Remeron; which better for sleep, posted by Sabino on May 16, 2005, at 19:44:58
> Hi Jaded,
>
> I've also been to a therapist twice now. Have another appt with her in about two weeks. Other than the Effexor XR, just stayed home for 3 weeks, and did some walking a few times a week.
>
> Really was great to get away from work for awhile. I work in I.T., and I find that depression and anxiety and stress had really badly effected my concentration, memory, and ability to retain info. I was increasingly feeling like I couldn't do my job, and was more and more reclusive after work. I really was at the end of my rope, and something had to give.
>
> Today was first day back to work. I'm still not really feeling up to it. I'm hoping the Effexor will kick in. Think this is day 20, but only day 5 on 150 mgs. I definitely had a fair bit of anxiety today at work. Felt fine once I left. If I can just get somebody to pay me for not working, I think I'll have this depression thing licked :-)Hi Sabino,
Hey thank you for the honesty, it just feels good to have someone who understands where I am at right now. I saw a therapist today, I liked her, which is saying alot for me. I think she could really show me how to help myself.
I have been taking walks as well, but I find myself doing more sitting and watching life unfold around me than anything else. Sometimes I feel so apart from it all, and I am not sure how to get back to just being me again. I don't even know what being me means anymore. WHOOPS! True confession time, just unloading, feel pretty emotional today.
Anyway, I am going to take it a day at a time and just do what I can for today, and worry about tommorow....well..tommorow :)
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