![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 35. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by tendency on April 29, 2005, at 16:26:58
when i was on klonopin for 3 weeks i really loved it: totally killed my anxiety and irritability and seemed to stabilize my mood. however, my pdoc scarred me off of it with tales of physical and psychological addiction that will inevitably result from use of more than a few months. and then ive read horror stories about side effects that come from trying to quit. of late ive heard conflicting reports, all anecdotal, from some who say it's not addictive for them and they have no trouble stopping. so what's the scoop? should i be concerned with trying this longer term? FWIW, i was on .5mg twice a day. thanks.
Posted by linkadge on April 29, 2005, at 16:30:27
In reply to is klonopin really all that addictive?, posted by tendency on April 29, 2005, at 16:26:58
I didn't build a tollerance, but coming off of it was terrable.
Linkadge
Posted by tendency on April 29, 2005, at 16:34:51
In reply to Re: is klonopin really all that addictive?, posted by linkadge on April 29, 2005, at 16:30:27
> I didn't build a tollerance, but coming off of it was terrable.
>
>
> Linkadgehow long were you on it? what side effects did you have stopping? how long did the side effects last? thanks link
Posted by linkadge on April 29, 2005, at 17:28:37
In reply to Re: is klonopin really all that addictive? » linkadge, posted by tendency on April 29, 2005, at 16:34:51
I was up to 3mg for the duration of a month.
I spent the longest time on about 1mg (4 months or so)
Symptoms of discontinuation were simply frank panic, about things you never even knew you were afriad of.
I stopped going into my university science building since I was afraid of the wireless network messing with my head.
Bombs dropping, going to hell, heck I started to panic because I was afraid I would forget how to breath.
Linkadge
Posted by fires on April 29, 2005, at 17:32:12
In reply to is klonopin really all that addictive?, posted by tendency on April 29, 2005, at 16:26:58
I took 2 mg of Klon. for over a decade for sleep.
No problems. I now take 3 mg per day, no problems.
Posted by tendency on April 29, 2005, at 17:48:34
In reply to Re: is klonopin really all that addictive? » tendency, posted by fires on April 29, 2005, at 17:32:12
> I took 2 mg of Klon. for over a decade for sleep.
>
> No problems. I now take 3 mg per day, no problems.
>
>yeah - but have you tried to quit ever? if so, what were the side effects?
sounds like tolerance is slow to develop - if ever, so that's encouraging.
thanks.
Posted by fires on April 29, 2005, at 18:22:03
In reply to Re: is klonopin really all that addictive? » fires, posted by tendency on April 29, 2005, at 17:48:34
> > I took 2 mg of Klon. for over a decade for sleep.
> >
> > No problems. I now take 3 mg per day, no problems.
> >
> >
>
> yeah - but have you tried to quit ever? if so, what were the side effects?
>
> sounds like tolerance is slow to develop - if ever, so that's encouraging.
>
> thanks.
>
>I dropped down to 1.5 mg per day as I recall, without side effects. I'm not concerned about stopping it, because if I ever do >> very slow taper off.
Posted by Phillipa on April 29, 2005, at 19:24:13
In reply to Re: is klonopin really all that addictive?, posted by fires on April 29, 2005, at 18:22:03
I've been on a benxo so long that I will always have to be unless they come out with a "wonder drug". I'm not concerned because I have just switched over from one to another. Actually since I started the valium I'm actually taking a much lower dose. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by fires on April 29, 2005, at 21:09:53
In reply to Re: is klonopin really all that addictive?, posted by Phillipa on April 29, 2005, at 19:24:13
> I've been on a benxo so long that I will always have to be unless they come out with a "wonder drug". I'm not concerned because I have just switched over from one to another. Actually since I started the valium I'm actually taking a much lower dose. Fondly, Phillipa
Why the switching?
Posted by Phillipa on April 29, 2005, at 21:40:10
In reply to Re: is klonopin really all that addictive? » Phillipa, posted by fires on April 29, 2005, at 21:09:53
When valium was popular that's what was Rx'd. When ativan came out the same. The same with xanax and klonopin. Now I've come full circle and am back on valium. I have an older pdoc who is familiar with the older drugs. Her philosopy is "if it ain't broke, then don't try to fix it." I'm lucky because the young pdoc I had before her tried to take me off all the banzos and I ended up in a neurologist's office shaking and unable to speak. He told me to find a doc who isn't benzo phobic. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by fires on April 29, 2005, at 23:08:11
In reply to Re: is klonopin really all that addictive? » fires, posted by Phillipa on April 29, 2005, at 21:40:10
> When valium was popular that's what was Rx'd. When ativan came out the same. The same with xanax and klonopin. Now I've come full circle and am back on valium. I have an older pdoc who is familiar with the older drugs. Her philosopy is "if it ain't broke, then don't try to fix it." I'm lucky because the young pdoc I had before her tried to take me off all the banzos and I ended up in a neurologist's office shaking and unable to speak. He told me to find a doc who isn't benzo phobic. Fondly, Phillipa<
I'll bet the benzo phobics are also MAOI phobics.
Posted by Mr.Scott on May 2, 2005, at 20:53:46
In reply to is klonopin really all that addictive?, posted by tendency on April 29, 2005, at 16:26:58
Let me be frank.
Tolerance will develop slowly but probably completely to almost all the desired effects. However the effects on your cognitive functioning will probably never go away and may in fact become worse particularly with longer acting compounds. There is a good chance you will experience more psychopathology as a result of long-term benzodiazepine usage including increased depression or chronic anxiety, personality changes, relationship problems, etc. all the while believing or just trying to justify that it's still working (this is true of many addictive compunds, but even moreso when you have a doctor giving it to you for a disorder).
If you become a long-term benzodiazepine user (years) and ever find a physician with enough balls to try and get you off, you will invariably experience great discomfort and depending on the dosage your withdrawal will likely make Heroin and Alcohol withdrawal look like a little girls birthday party. Whats more is that most rehabs won't take you and insurance won't cover a hospital stay for it, and if you do it outpatient you'll probably get divorced and or lose your job trying.
It really only complcates matters in long the run I believe. If you can, do yourself a big favor and avoid them. Thats just my opinion however. If you must take them for anxiety and some people do. Exhaust all other options first. ALL other options.
Scott
Posted by fires on May 2, 2005, at 22:08:22
In reply to Re: is klonopin really all that addictive? » tendency, posted by Mr.Scott on May 2, 2005, at 20:53:46
> Let me be frank.
>
> Tolerance will develop slowly but probably completely to almost all the desired effects.Hasn't happened to me in over a decade of use.
>> However the effects on your cognitive functioning will probably never go away and may in fact become worse particularly with longer acting compounds. There is a good chance you will experience more psychopathology as a result of long-term benzodiazepine usage including increased depression or chronic anxiety, personality changes, relationship problems, etc. all the while believing or just trying to justify that it's still working (this is true of many addictive compunds, but even moreso when you have a doctor giving it to you for a disorder).<<
My MD was a top psychopharmacologist.
>
> If you become a long-term benzodiazepine user (years) and ever find a physician with enough balls to try and get you off, you will invariably experience great discomfort and depending on the dosage your withdrawal will likely make Heroin and Alcohol withdrawal look like a little girls birthday party. Whats more is that most rehabs won't take you and insurance won't cover a hospital stay for it, and if you do it outpatient you'll probably get divorced and or lose your job trying.<<Can you site a source for the above? Why the need for a rehab? Worse than Heroin....
I have a pdoc, a neuro., an internist, and a couple other MDs who I think would disagree with you.
>
> It really only complcates matters in long the run I believe. If you can, do yourself a big favor and avoid them. Thats just my opinion however.<<<Opinion?
If you must take them for anxiety and some people do. Exhaust all other options first. ALL other options.And those options are?
>
> Scott
Posted by anneL on May 2, 2005, at 23:05:37
In reply to Re: is klonopin really all that addictive? » tendency, posted by Mr.Scott on May 2, 2005, at 20:53:46
Getting divorced, rehab, insurance denying coverage for rehab. If this is personal experience, I am very sorry this happened to you. Not everyone shares your view of benzodiazepines. It is perfectly acceptable to say, "I experienced. . . or "this happened to me" in sharing your experiences with medication instead of making blanket statements.
Posted by Phillipa on May 2, 2005, at 23:50:25
In reply to Re: is klonopin really all that addictive? » Mr.Scott, posted by anneL on May 2, 2005, at 23:05:37
I think he said in my opinion. He was just saying try other options first. I myself have been on benzos for over 35yrs. I will never be able to come off of them. My brain chemistry has been altered just as an alcholics is. I worked in rehab. And it's true insurance companies will not pay for rehab. If you're lucky, you may get 3 days in a detox center. But that was 8 yrs ago. I don't think this is even paid for now. Maybe a state hospital but even if you are suicidal they wiil discharge you in a couple of days. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by fires on May 2, 2005, at 23:58:04
In reply to Re: is klonopin really all that addictive? » anneL, posted by Phillipa on May 2, 2005, at 23:50:25
> I think he said in my opinion. He was just saying try other options first. I myself have been on benzos for over 35yrs. I will never be able to come off of them. My brain chemistry has been altered just as an alcholics is. I worked in rehab. And it's true insurance companies will not pay for rehab. If you're lucky, you may get 3 days in a detox center. But that was 8 yrs ago. I don't think this is even paid for now. Maybe a state hospital but even if you are suicidal they wiil discharge you in a couple of days. Fondly, Phillipa
Can you provide medical research/documentation that your "brain chemistry has been altered just as an alcholics is"? I am interested if there is such info. out there.
Posted by Phillipa on May 3, 2005, at 16:41:37
In reply to Re: is klonopin really all that addictive? » Phillipa, posted by fires on May 2, 2005, at 23:58:04
Good question as any MRI I've had done is read as normal. I would like the answer to this myself. That is really a good question. Thanks Phillipa
Posted by Mr.Scott on May 3, 2005, at 21:50:06
In reply to Re: is klonopin really all that addictive? » Mr.Scott, posted by anneL on May 2, 2005, at 23:05:37
I apologize for being offensive. Let me restate.
My experience both personal and from other long-term users that I know personally indicates that for the majority of people long-term use is neither indicated, nor effective, nor helpful. I am of the opinion that while benzos represent a major advance over their predecessors, they have not lived up to their promise and anyone considering using them for a chronic condition should try any and all other available options first. So yes I think they are highly addictive.
However, if anyone really does want research to support my ranting and ravings and I'm bored enough, I can surely produce it.
Scott
Posted by Phillipa on May 3, 2005, at 22:52:07
In reply to Sorry, posted by Mr.Scott on May 3, 2005, at 21:50:06
Scott, The last two nights make me think you are right. Up until now i thought they did no harm. But I haven't been able to sleep the last two nights. Keep waking and ranting and raving. Driving my husband nuts. Nightmares! I just want to go back to sleep and I can't. I used to be able to sleep with the meds so well. What can I do? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by NealMcCoy on May 4, 2005, at 2:17:48
In reply to Re: is klonopin really all that addictive? » Phillipa, posted by fires on May 2, 2005, at 23:58:04
Benzos are the brutally hard to come off of. It can takes months or even years to come off of them. Scott is absolutely right in what he sais. Benzos should be last resort for everyone. If you don't believe me then try coming off of them yourself. You'll be crying for your mommy to come and save you.
Posted by anneL on May 4, 2005, at 9:20:01
In reply to Re: is klonopin really all that addictive?, posted by NealMcCoy on May 4, 2005, at 2:17:48
Everyone has to make their own decision as to what constitutes quality of life. I think the original question was about "addiction" not "dependence". Yes, I agree that longterm benzo use creates dependence and can be difficult to taper off. I think addiction depends entirely on the patient's history, genetics, and personal predisposition. I understand that you are trying to warn people not to use these as a first line medication, however, for some, these medications have literally been life saving. Lets make the clear distinction between "dependence" vs. "addiction". Very different entities IMHO.
:) anneL
Posted by anneL on May 4, 2005, at 9:30:32
In reply to Sorry, posted by Mr.Scott on May 3, 2005, at 21:50:06
Hi Scott,
No need for apologies. I think that as oldtimers on this board we have a responsibility to preface our statements with, "This has been my experience. . . "Your own mileage may vary. . ."
I have not found the end of human suffering in a pill form, but in my experience thus far, some areas of my life have been improved by medication, at a cost. Another point is that I realize there is confusion over the terms "addiction" and "dependence". Two different phenomenon with different behaviors and strategies. Just my thoughts on the subject.
Posted by Mr.Scott on May 4, 2005, at 16:51:25
In reply to Sorry, posted by Mr.Scott on May 3, 2005, at 21:50:06
Poor word choice.
I mean to say mildy addictive at best, Highly dependence inducing at worst.
Scott
Posted by JaneB on May 4, 2005, at 18:01:53
In reply to Re: Sorry » Mr.Scott, posted by Mr.Scott on May 4, 2005, at 16:51:25
In my opinion, it is no less difficult to go off SSRI's than benzos.
Posted by fires on May 4, 2005, at 18:40:43
In reply to my opinion, posted by JaneB on May 4, 2005, at 18:01:53
> In my opinion, it is no less difficult to go off SSRI's than benzos.
I was on an MAOI, Parnate, and slowly tapered off of it, after being on it for 14 years. No problems at all.
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.