![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 8503 to 8527 of 10407. Go back in thread:
Posted by winddancer on April 18, 2005, at 15:02:04
In reply to Re: 4 Wks off Effexor-/joint pain » Keemo, posted by Colleen D. on April 18, 2005, at 13:13:55
Clearly this drug can cause a lot of odd symptoms - I have never had such joint pain as I have now. It's hard to be sure just what causes what. My pdoc seemed to dismiss my joint pain being related since she said that Effexor is sometimes used for pain control as is Neurontin which I was taking for awhile but it's just too odd that I didn't have this total body joint and muscle pain prior to the Effexor. I too am seeing a chiropractor for my low back pain; and a physical therapist; and I had an MRI and will be seeing an orthopedic spine specialist for his view of the situation; so far everyone seems to agree that my low back pain is a clear case of sacroiliac joint misalignment and some disintegration of some spinal discs in that area as a result. I also stopped HRT about 5 months ago and my hormones are low; so it will be interesting to see when I get my hormones balanced out and am completely off the Effexor for a couple months, if I still suffer from the same pains. If the pain goes away - I don't think I'll be too interested in taking Effexor again to check it out. Somehow I believe that my being on Effexor, xanax, Neurontin, Clonapin, etc had either an indirect or direct connection to all the pain I'm suffering from.
It's too bad that there's not enough money in it to do double blind studies with natural remedies, like nutrition support, but the only way big research studies get done is if the potential result is that an expensive drug can be marketed to absorb the cost.
It really is interesting that Effexor gets rid of pain for some and causes pain for others. Clearly it is a tricky drug to anticipate results for different individuals. I'd be interested to see more details about how the drug was evaluated - on the other hand I don't really want to spend that much time reading.
winddancer
Posted by Elroy on April 18, 2005, at 16:51:16
In reply to Re: Anyone have their biochemistry evaluated? » Jen2, posted by winddancer on April 16, 2005, at 23:25:01
Excellent posting.
I too have wondered about this.
Why prescribe powerful SSRI medications - which create the artifical effect of increasing serotonin levels - when an individual's problem might be a lack of dopamine and NOT serotonin.. or maybe it's a lack of GABA neurotransmitters (especially if it is an anxiety problem instead of a depression problem)???
Just over the last couple of days I was reading through the following links (which was why I still happened to have them handy)...
http://www.neuroreplete.com/default.htm
http://www.neuroreplete.com/bal.htmAlso:
http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/fulltext/dep5-1.htm
I would also check out the book on brain neurotransmitters by a Dr. Eric Braverman (I can't recall the actual title right now).
Have you checked out the alternatives board?
I would search for postings by a Larry Hoover. He seems to be an amazing source of information.
I wish you good results with your alternative doctor.
Would like to find someone like him (or Dr. Braverman) who practices in the NE Ohio area!X
X
X
X
> I have been experiencing some other things that I now think are a result of the Effexor experience, either directly or indirectly. I am anemic, perhaps because I was taking pain pills (Aspirin, Ibuprophen, etc)to combat the headaches and body ache caused by the medicine. I was so constipated. I couldn't sleep deeply (I'm still working on having a good nights sleep, without the help of Ambian. My body is not processing calcium and absorbing it in my bones - that and hi oxalates are the ingredients for kidney stones. With the lack of sleep - everything gets out of whack!! My hormone levels are low and for some reason I am experiencing intense joint and muscle pain in every area of my body.
>
> I'm seeing an alternative doctor - an Internist MD,who has evidence from his patients that when he thoroughly evaluates a person and corrects inbalances in their bio-chemistry that they no longer suffer from much depression and panic attacks and remain overall more healthy and for women less negative sideeffects of being post menopausal. He recommends natural only hormone replacement after analyzing what each individual needs to balance it out - from compounding pharmacies so that the dose is very individualized. It all makes good sense to me since I didn't experience my first episode of depression until I was going through menopause. Main stream MD's don't seem to go for evaluating a person's chemical make-up and hormone levels, before prescribing some pretty powerful stuff - and sometimes it would seem that they prescribe it "by the seat of their pants" depending on which pharmaceautical company courted them last and put their "spin" on the assumption that only medicine can correct a problem. Now don't get me wrong! I'm all for meds - but can't we first take a look at our "healthy or not" choices for nutrition and lifestyle before prescribing a drug that can potentially be dangerous. Of course there is not as much money kickbacks from prescribing good nutrition, personal evaluation of each individual before putting them on powerful drugs, as there is with the prescription drug companies.
>
> winddancer
>
>
Posted by Corafree on April 18, 2005, at 21:26:19
In reply to Re: 4 Wks off Effexor-/joint pain » Colleen D., posted by winddancer on April 18, 2005, at 15:02:04
Hi Windancer. Sorry you are having joint pain. I take Voltaren 2x a day and Flexeril 3x a day. They have helped tremendously. Also, I drink a lot of water.
I'm looking into a natural HRT. Am planning to call a large nutrition store in my city where my PCP says there is a woman that is very knowledgeable about all the different varieties out there. There are sooo many, and I just wonder if you may know of any particular brands w/ the herbs and vites, well some just have the herbs, and some just the vites, and some are all alone, like a bottle of black cohosh. I need to find one where these are meshed together in one tab! I hate having a million alternative med bottles sitting in my kitchen, but more importantly, maybe would be a better way to get right amounts of ingredients. So, have you, or anyone heard of any in particular. I've just read a little book and it is 'plugging' Estro-Logic. Tks cf
Posted by Phillipa on April 18, 2005, at 21:51:43
In reply to Re: 4 Wks off Effexor-/joint pain » winddancer, posted by Corafree on April 18, 2005, at 21:26:19
Corafree, My OBGYN had a formulary drug store mix up a cream that was in a syringe when I was going through menopause. Insurance wouldn't cover it but it's the completely natural hormones. You can apply it once a day or twice a day. You just rub it in. i stopped this summer as I had used them for about 3 yrs, and the doctor and pharmacist said that was long enough. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Corafree on April 19, 2005, at 22:50:04
In reply to Re: 4 Wks off Effexor-/joint pain, posted by Keemo on April 18, 2005, at 12:35:00
This is so NOT weird. I posted about the hot flashes type sweating! I also have a red blotchy area on my leg. Been off Eff-XR at least month to month and a half. I'm having my hormones checked too! Oh dear; well thinking was correct decision, discontinuing it. best wishes cf
Posted by Corafree on April 19, 2005, at 22:56:31
In reply to Re: Anyone have their biochemistry evaluated? » winddancer, posted by Elroy on April 18, 2005, at 16:51:16
Winddancer - I am on mainstream HRT. I use Vivelle patches. Saw my PCP yesterday and showed him the alternatives black cohosh, clover, etc. etc. and he said he couldn't name one, but thought would be good direction. Can you name one? Would certainly be appreciated. I cannot afford to go to a naturopath. Instead, I find myself standing in front of a HRT counter with 50 different blends and names. Any help would really HELP. TKS cf
Posted by Corafree on April 19, 2005, at 23:02:58
In reply to Re: 4 Wks off Effexor-/joint pain » Corafree, posted by Phillipa on April 18, 2005, at 21:51:43
My OB used to have a place that mixed up 'patient particular' recipes too, but they were mixing varying amounts of estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, estradiol.
Maybe that same pharmacy mixes a natural blend like you have suggested.
I will ask him; but affording it may be a horse of a different color!
Thanks! cf
Posted by helpless51 on April 19, 2005, at 23:20:35
In reply to Re: 4 Wks off Effexor-/joint pain » Colleen D., posted by winddancer on April 18, 2005, at 15:02:04
I wondered ,,,,,after only 5 days of taking the effexor .....i found i could barely walk in the store my leg and knee hurt so bad ......does anyone know if that goes away aftr awhile?
Posted by winddancer on April 19, 2005, at 23:47:19
In reply to Re: 4 Wks off Effexor-/joint pain » winddancer, posted by Corafree on April 18, 2005, at 21:26:19
Hi Corafree, Elroy, and everyone else,
I’m not familiar with the 2 drugs you mention – Voltaren 2x a day and Flexeril 3x a day - did you get a prescription for them??
My opinion about all this is that – even if it’s expensive – I/we should have a doctor or whoever willing to do a blood or saliva test to determine what hormones our body is making on its own and what it is missing and then have the doc prescribe a natural bio-identical hormone made up at a compounding pharmacy that has just what YOUR body needs. Hormones are pretty powerful things and it could be just as damaging and inappropriate to take more than you need as it would be to allow yourself to suffer with low hormone levels. I think Phillipa referred to having a cream made up especially for her own specific metabolism.
As far as other nutritional supplements go – I hope to follow the same plan – find out what my body has or manufactures on its own with a good diet and supplement with what’s missing. I learned the hard way that taking Calcium supplements since I was post-menopausal and Osteoporetic was not a good idea FOR ME and resulted in kidney stones – twice. Only recently am I being evaluated by a Nephrologist doctor who was surprised that after the first stone, I was not advised by my MD or the Urologist who did the surgery, that I should avoid Calcium supplements and Hi-oxalate foods - even though I asked – and my urinalysis indicated hi Ca and Oxalates - go figure?Now I’m seeing an Internest MD who offers some very alternate options for pain management and biochemical optimizing. He suggests that I can promote changes in my biochemistry with diet and supplements whereby the excess Ca and Oxalate will be better dissolved, thus avoiding kidney stones and allowing the bones to absorb Ca and collegen (as important or more important than Ca), thus reversing osteoporesis.
MD’s, though very smart about lots of stuff, tend not to be trained in specific nutritional metabolic needs and natural means of optimising health – too bad – since most people usually think of their MD’s as “optimal health doctors” but MD’s are only trained to think of how our ailments can be treated with MEDicines. On the other hand, Naturopaths, Homeopaths and other alternative practitioners are better trained and knowledgeable in these areas. More and more MD’s are beginning to respect their specialized expertise. And, at least in my state, are now covered by BC/BS just like MD's.I believe that there are some excellent companies supplying nutritional supplements. Many are multilevel marketed, which does not diminish their product quality, and often enhances it. I personally tend to think that whole food supplements will be by far the best choice, since whole food is really “more than the sum of its parts” as the nutrients in whole foods operate synergistically with each other and have traces of necessary things that vitamins miss. The companies that I have learned about and believe are well researched are Wholefood Farmacy, Awarenesslife, Nikken, Juice Plus+, Mannetech, and Melaleuca (ask Phillipa about this one). Here are a some websites:
www.colorful.wholefoodfarmacy.com
[THE GREAT AMERICAN WHOLE FOOD FARMACY - Convenient Organic Raw Whole Food]
I keep some of these products in my car for a quick and very healthy snack when I’m late for or missing a meal – better than those sweet power bars and very economical.http://www.wendyjo.awarenesslife.com/
Nikken: www.5pillars.com/833692900;
you can also go to www.nikken.com They have some amazing research and not many people know that they have excellent nutritional supplements – (they are known for their high quality magnet therapy)
Check this out too.
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2000/oct2000_report_lactoferrin.htmlwinddancer
Posted by winddancer on April 19, 2005, at 23:54:39
In reply to Re: 4 Wks off Effexor-/joint pain, posted by helpless51 on April 19, 2005, at 23:20:35
Geez, the more I read, the more I'm convinced that there is some connection with joint pain and Effexor - there are just too many people finding this pain associated with weaning off the drug. I hope the pharmaceutical company becomes aware of this and does more research!! or will it take a class action suit to get that going?? Probably. Maybe if enough of us get a "disability evaluation" and can't work, it will get investigated. Maybe 5 - 10 years from now!! Yikes!!
Anybody heard of anyone who had these symptoms who had them got away after awhile?
winddancer
Posted by winddancer on April 20, 2005, at 0:02:54
In reply to Re: Anyone have their biochemistry evaluated? » winddancer, posted by Elroy on April 18, 2005, at 16:51:16
Elroy,
Interesting site! Pretty complex. I think I would feel better having a health care practitioner who specializes in this biochemistry evaluate and advise me about this. But I have always been proactive about my health care, and have really been stumped at all that is happening with my health since being on all these AD drugs - Boy! what we get ourselves into when we start taking meds.
winddancer
Posted by winddancer on April 20, 2005, at 0:19:23
In reply to Re: Anyone have their biochemistry evaluated?, posted by Corafree on April 19, 2005, at 22:56:31
CF,
There is a product called "Female Balance" by Awarenesslife, for relief of mild menopausal and PMS symptoms. It has what you're looking for: $25.46 plus shpng and tax = $33.16 for 60 caps; 1 month at 2x per day
A friend of mine swears by this and some of their other products - she has done extensive research for the highest quality supplements she can find for the best price. It is network marketed and if you elect auto-ship, you can get it cheaper and your own website - then anyone who gets it off your site, gives you a commission and therefore reduces your cost further. Let me know if you decide to do it and I will send you the website.
[jf_206@hotmail.com]winddancer
Posted by Phillipa on April 20, 2005, at 0:37:21
In reply to Re: Anyone have their biochemistry evaluated? » Elroy, posted by winddancer on April 20, 2005, at 0:02:54
Corafree, Winddancer is right. If you should want to hear about Melaleuca please Babble me or winddancer can give you my E-mail. I just don't want to post it here. Actually if you accept Babble I'll send it to you quickly. It's the best product out there. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by winddancer on April 20, 2005, at 0:38:16
In reply to Re: 4 Wks off Effexor-/joint pain » winddancer, posted by Corafree on April 18, 2005, at 21:26:19
cf,
I'm reading a book by Jonathan Wright, MD and John Morgenthaler called "Natural Hormone Replacement" - so far - really excellent reading. The alternative MD 'gave' it to me.
Here's his website - perhaps their clinic could suggest someone similar closer to your location.
www.paracelsusclinic.com
tdorman@paracelsusclinic.comwinddancer
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 20, 2005, at 1:51:08
In reply to Re: 4 Wks off Effexor-/joint pain » Corafree, posted by winddancer on April 20, 2005, at 0:38:16
> I'm reading a book by Jonathan Wright, MD and John Morgenthaler called "Natural Hormone Replacement"
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding natural hormone replacement to Psycho-Babble Alternative. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20050414/msgs/486825.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by winddancer on April 20, 2005, at 1:55:58
In reply to Redirect: natural hormone replacement, posted by Dr. Bob on April 20, 2005, at 1:51:08
Thanks, Good Idea There was some earlier discussion along these lines too.
winddancer
Posted by Corafree on April 20, 2005, at 12:52:18
In reply to Re: 4 Wks off Effexor-/joint pain, posted by helpless51 on April 19, 2005, at 23:20:35
Hi. I have osteoarthritis and fibromyalgia. I was already on Voltaren (NSAID) and Flexeril (muscle relaxant) at the time I d.c. Eff-XR, so I probably would not have noticed if joint pain was an after effect. sorry, cf
Posted by Corafree on April 20, 2005, at 13:01:59
In reply to Natural therapy for Eff withdrawal symptoms » Corafree, posted by winddancer on April 19, 2005, at 23:47:19
Tks Winddancer. That's a print! cf
Posted by Corafree on April 20, 2005, at 13:04:42
In reply to Re: Anyone have their biochemistry evaluated? » Elroy, posted by winddancer on April 20, 2005, at 0:02:54
Just to throw in ... I am now off both anti-depressants Eff-XR and trazodone. I am on a mood stabilizer now. I feel so much better. cf
Posted by Corafree on April 20, 2005, at 13:06:08
In reply to Re: Anyone have their biochemistry evaluated? » Corafree, posted by winddancer on April 20, 2005, at 0:19:23
Tks again for passing info along ... cf
Posted by Corafree on April 20, 2005, at 18:03:20
In reply to Re: Anyone have their biochemistry evaluated?, posted by Phillipa on April 20, 2005, at 0:37:21
Yes pls babble Phillipa, tks, cf
Posted by Colin_in_OZ on April 20, 2005, at 23:25:05
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? YES! (nm), posted by Colin_in_OZ on April 20, 2005, at 23:00:46
Uh-oh, I think I stuffed that up, and lost it entirely.
Anyway, the crux of my question was, has anyone else found that the AD effect of Effexor diminishes after a couple of years? For the past few months I've been feeling as depressed as I used to be, "BE".
I have an appointment with my GP next week, but I just thought I'd ask here meanwhile.
Colin
Posted by Corafree on April 21, 2005, at 2:12:33
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? YES!, posted by Colin_in_OZ on April 20, 2005, at 23:25:05
Recall the tablet Effexor (little house-shaped tab) ... took for maybe 1 to 2 yrs, and yes increased dosage w/ tolerance.
When Eff-XR capsules came out, tried right away. I was high as a kite, too high! Stopped it. Tried others.
One to two yrs later decided give Eff-XR capsules another try; I was totally fine, no real high or real low.
I feel my body must have recognized it, even after it had not been in my system for a year; knew where it left off and what it wanted now, ... or then. I am no longer on it.
Answer for me was, yes, did need to increase along the way w/ tolerance.
best wishes, cf
Posted by Rhonda Jo on April 21, 2005, at 8:11:39
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? YES!, posted by Colin_in_OZ on April 20, 2005, at 23:25:05
> Uh-oh, I think I stuffed that up, and lost it entirely.
>
> Anyway, the crux of my question was, has anyone else found that the AD effect of Effexor diminishes after a couple of years? For the past few months I've been feeling as depressed as I used to be, "BE".
>
> I have an appointment with my GP next week, but I just thought I'd ask here meanwhile.
>
>
> Colin
>effexor ex was the same for me too. a few years in and my depression started to creep back. bumped it to 150 feeling great! still a scatter brain, now I am taking adarall and my life is the best it has ever been. I am starting a new career. I took my state test yesterday and only missed 1 question. I was able to STUDY!!! the lady giving the test said that she does not get a lot of scores like mine. This is not the norm for me. I hated school so much and did so poorly that my senior year I gave up and gave in and took the GED. I wish I had these drugs back in "79"
talk to your doctor if you are sliding back!! don't waste a day!! ;o)
Posted by Keemo on April 21, 2005, at 10:03:20
In reply to Re: Anyone have their biochemistry evaluated? » winddancer, posted by Corafree on April 20, 2005, at 13:04:42
> Just to throw in ... I am now off both anti-depressants Eff-XR and trazodone. I am on a mood stabilizer now. I feel so much better. cf
What is a mood stabilizer? Just for future reference and what does it do besides the obvious?
Keemo
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.