![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 8428 to 8452 of 10407. Go back in thread:
Posted by Phillipa on March 17, 2005, at 0:02:16
In reply to What I meant to ask - Copied,Pasted,Error In Post » corafree, posted by corafree on March 16, 2005, at 22:11:24
Corafree, I always wake up at about that time, and then take some more medication. I've finally decided that that's when I have to use the restroom. It doesn't matter what they give me at hs, I still wake up. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by winddancer on March 17, 2005, at 0:32:48
In reply to Re: What I meant to ask - Copied,Pasted,Error In Post, posted by Phillipa on March 17, 2005, at 0:02:16
Same with me. If I only awaken once at 3 or 4am it is an excellent night. But since Effexor (without Benzos or Ambien) I awaken many times and have trouble going back to sleep. I just got some Benedryl - maybe that will help with the sleep. I don't want to use the benzos - I'm afraid of their addiction and my dependance and also of the unnatural sleep when on drugs.
winddancer
Posted by corafree on March 17, 2005, at 9:00:55
In reply to Re: What I meant to ask - Copied,Pasted,Error In Post » Phillipa, posted by winddancer on March 17, 2005, at 0:32:48
Think needed change title of post for following.
I recently decided to discontinue all current meds. I was on Effexor-XR, and trazodone worked well for sleep.
Yes Winddancer and Phillipa, some awakening here and there isn't bad ... I guess I shouldn't complain!
Sometimes maybe go to the bathroom or hear a noise, yep! Do fall pretty easily back to sleep. I've gotta' keep those earplugs in!
I don't use a benzo for sleep.
I do use 100mg Seroquel (used for mood stabilization) and wake w/ no 'fogginess' at all.
After what I went through ..... I do take Valium x3 a day, but not for sleep; last dose around 5p.
cf
Posted by Phillipa on March 17, 2005, at 16:06:14
In reply to Re: What I meant to ask - Copied,Pasted,Error In Post, posted by Phillipa on March 17, 2005, at 0:02:16
Benzos are no more addictive than an AD. And you don't build up a toleranc, at least I don't. All I have to do is read the Posts about w/d from AD's and the side effects, and I know I'd rather stick with a benzo that really doesn't have side effects. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by corafree on March 17, 2005, at 16:25:57
In reply to Re: What I meant to ask - Copied,Pasted,Error In Post » Phillipa, posted by Phillipa on March 17, 2005, at 16:06:14
Hey guys I'm totally lost about this whole post, so I'll just 'shut up' and pay attn a bit. Happy St. P's Day; don't wear it and someone you like might pinch you! Wishes, cf
Posted by winddancer on March 17, 2005, at 19:31:08
In reply to Re: What I meant to ask - Copied,Pasted,Error In Post » Phillipa, posted by Phillipa on March 17, 2005, at 16:06:14
Thanks, I guess I hadn't looked at it that way. I suppose it is an addiction to the ADs since the weaning off is such a challenge. I guess maybe I don't want to use another drug as a crutch for weaning off another, only to still be addicted to something.
I've been using Scott's suggestion and have been dividing my 75mg EX Effexor into fourths and taken only a fourth at a time - so I'm now taking 3/4 of the capsule a day. By spreading it out over the day, I seem to be doing pretty well.
In addition to the Effexor causing some insomnia, I have pain from an SI joint that seems to be worse when I lay down to sleep for the night so some of my waking is from the pain and not being able to get into a comfortable position.
winddancer
Posted by corafree on March 17, 2005, at 20:03:41
In reply to Re: What I meant to ask - Copied,Pasted,Error In Post » Phillipa, posted by winddancer on March 17, 2005, at 19:31:08
Is it being suggested that I am using one drug for a CRUTCH to get off another?
Is this a discussion of withdrawal?
sincerely, cf
Posted by winddancer on March 17, 2005, at 21:02:50
In reply to Re: What I meant to ask - Copied,Pasted,Error In Post, posted by corafree on March 17, 2005, at 20:03:41
To anyone:
I was sharing on what for me seems like a crutch if I get off one addition by being addicted to something else in order to alleviate withdrawal symtoms. That's how I see it for me, and I don't have opinions about others. I suppose one could say that eating nutritious food is a crutch for getting off junk food, except that the trade off is potentially going to result in more overall healthyness and less physical challenges. So to me that wouldn't be called a crutch.If being addicted to benzos (with less side-effects) instead of ADs is a more healthy situation, then it would not be a crutch. Also if switching to benzos makes it easier to withdraw from all drugs, then its a healthy step to take. At any rate, being addicted to either drug is better than being dibilitatingly depressed and nonfunctionally prone to panic attacks. For some it may be as necessary as insulin is to diabetics, and we wouldn't say that insulin is just a crutch.
I would personally prefer to take a nutritional supplement or herb to stay emotionally healthy rather than a pharmaceutical drug which always seems to have a scary side. And give up chocolate ????? if that's what it takes ??? it would be hard ???? but I'd sure rather do that if that's what it takes.
Do you do regular aerobic exercise? I'm getting back into that after not being as regular with it. I know it helps even my moods and give me more energy. And have you tried dancing?
Winddancer
Posted by Phillipa on March 17, 2005, at 21:10:15
In reply to Re: What I meant to ask - Copied,Pasted,Error In Post, posted by winddancer on March 17, 2005, at 21:02:50
I love you winddancer! You're so on target. I wouldn't give up chocolate either, but I can eat yogurt and banannas at breakfast, a protein shake at lunch, excercise, and induldge in my chocolate after all that. Yes, if all natural were possible it would be nice. Maybe it will if we continue to work on the other aspects of our lives. Fondly, Phillipa PS Sorry I didn't capitalize your name, I'm too lazy to back and risk messing up this post.!
Posted by corafree on March 17, 2005, at 21:50:33
In reply to Re: What I meant to ask - Copied,Pasted,Error In Post, posted by winddancer on March 17, 2005, at 21:02:50
I discontinued a regimen and began a new one because of a nervous system 'shutdown'.
It was happenstance that it may have made withdrawal less difficult.
After 30yrs of head meds, thinking of quiting chocolate or running with the wind seems like an impossibility to me.
I am VERY thankful to be alive after ALL. I am still ill; still need a lot of counseling. I am looking for a life, and NOT ANOTHER LIFE TO SAVE!
(I believe that's called codependency.)
I've been searching my soul and trying take a good look at how to do this.
cf
p.s. I love chocolate and used to be a runner.
Posted by Phillipa on March 17, 2005, at 22:21:20
In reply to Re: What I meant to ask - Copied,Pasted,Error In Post » winddancer, posted by corafree on March 17, 2005, at 21:50:33
I used to run 5k's, too. My best time was a 7.5minute mile. I had my own aerobic dance program business, but gave it up my last year of nursing school as I had 3 kids at home and was going through a divorce. Graduated magna cum laude, with full scholarships. God, I used to be an achiever! Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by winddancer on March 17, 2005, at 22:39:30
In reply to Re: What I meant to ask - Copied,Pasted,Error In Post » corafree, posted by Phillipa on March 17, 2005, at 22:21:20
"Used to be" - don't go there. It's still a part of who you are but maybe masked over right now by emotions. I'll bet you'll be an achiever again but maybe in a different way. I was never that motivated - I did regular aerobics classes so that I could be physically active recreationally and pick up a team sport easily from time to time.
As for the dancing - do you agree that it has added benefit emotionally over just non-rythmic exercise not to music? You don't have to go out in public but just putting on music and dancing around the house can undo a frump sometimes. Dancing socially was more mood lifting for me - I'm ready to justify the cost of lessons if it can help me avoid AD drugs and help with withdrawal symptoms. I don't have a partner so taking lessons is a way to enjoy couples dancing and meet others that like to dance. (Only I've had to take a break because of SI joint pain lately)
Winddancer
Posted by Phillipa on March 17, 2005, at 22:46:31
In reply to Re: What I meant to ask - Copied,Pasted,Error In Post » Phillipa, posted by winddancer on March 17, 2005, at 22:39:30
Thank-you. Yes, yes, yes, dancing is wonderful for your mood. And I used to choreograph all my routines. I loved it! Maybe I'm channeling my creativity in another direction now. I've just gotten back into nutrition and discovered Malaleuca the Wellness Company, and I'm busily building a business on the wonderful products they supply. Want to become a member? Babble me , Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by winddancer on March 18, 2005, at 0:43:19
In reply to Re: What I meant to ask - Copied,Pasted,Error In Post » winddancer, posted by Phillipa on March 17, 2005, at 22:46:31
> I've just gotten back into nutrition and discovered Malaleuca the Wellness Company, and I'm busily building a business on the wonderful products they supply. Want to become a member? Babble me , Fondly, Phillipa
I do feel that our nutrition needs to be addressed to support our withdrawal and remain stable. I know of Melaleuca and I like some of their non-nutrient products. There are a number of direct marketed nutritional products that I have become familiar with and I think many of them are quality products. I took Juice+ for awhile and I'm also familiar with Mannetech, Nikken, Awarenesslife, and Whole Food Farmacy and have been courted by all. I feel whole food nutritional supplements are superior. We could have a long discussion I'm sure on the pros and cons. Can we communicate off the board? Right now I'm having my nutritional needs evaluated to design something that addresses my specific chemistry. There are some unusual things going on around the way I metabolize calcium, oxalates, etc. as it relates to osteoporosis. I also suspect that taking AD's and hi anxiety stress over many years may have contributed to this mixed up chemistry. So I may not be able to do a "one size fits all" like Melaleuca, etc.
winddancer
jf_206@hotmail.com
Posted by corafree on March 18, 2005, at 7:19:00
In reply to Re: What I meant to ask - Copied,Pasted,Error In Post » corafree, posted by Phillipa on March 17, 2005, at 22:21:20
I do know what you mean Phillipa.
We'll not give up though. Good times will come again to us all. I know I sound like a case to be filed away much of the time, but I really believe that there is 'much good' yet to come our way.
cf
Posted by corafree on March 18, 2005, at 7:35:05
In reply to Re: What I meant to ask - Copied,Pasted,Error In Post, posted by winddancer on March 18, 2005, at 0:43:19
Winddancer:
You said
'There are some unusual things going on around the way I metabolize calcium, oxalates'
Would appreciate you relating what info you learn, as I also have such a metabolization prob', but again ......., no $ to pursue nutritional advisement.
Just tryin' to get a bit of food off our now, what ..?.. 6 or 8 part, pyramid of advised daily intake(?).
Hypothesize behind my not eating properly and having the 'nervous system' break, at least for me, relates to ... someone cooking for me part of my life, myself cooking for others part of my life, and 'how/why cook for myself alone?'
cf
Posted by Phillipa on March 18, 2005, at 13:26:37
In reply to Re: What I meant to ask - Copied,Pasted,Error In Post » winddancer, posted by corafree on March 18, 2005, at 7:35:05
Winddancer, I would love to communicate off the Board. Want to hear your experiences. Maybe we can help each other. I copied your E-mail address. I have to run errands now so will write back around 5pm EST. I don't where you live. Fondly, Phillipa PS. I'm not recruiting you, just sharing something that I like, and I'm hard to please. I too, like other products, and the fact that they mail to your home, and you can order online.
Posted by SLS on March 18, 2005, at 20:07:53
In reply to Re: What I meant to ask - Copied,Pasted,Error In Post » Phillipa, posted by winddancer on March 17, 2005, at 19:31:08
Hi WindDancer.
> I've been using Scott's suggestion and have been dividing my 75mg EX Effexor into fourths and taken only a fourth at a time - so I'm now taking 3/4 of the capsule a day. By spreading it out over the day, I seem to be doing pretty well.I am praying that things continue that way. Please don't forget to post your results on the Withdrawal board. There are people there who are interested in your progress.
Best Wishes.
- Scott
Posted by winddancer on March 18, 2005, at 20:29:00
In reply to Re: What I meant to ask - Copied,Pasted,Error In Post » winddancer, posted by SLS on March 18, 2005, at 20:07:53
Thanks for your inquiry. This is my 3rd day of taking only 1/4 dose at a time only 3 times a day and I'm still doing well. I was out all day - with keeping dr appts, and other errands and was met with frustration in traffic taking me hours longer to get back home than I had hoped, but I maintained an even composure even when I had to add extra errands to my day. I did manage to get to the gym for an hour and 1/2 workout and I know that helps. My naturopath is very pleased with my progress and has agreed to provide me with some herbs and other things just from a phone call if I find myself slipping. She's confident that there are many options for keeping me emotionally healthy as long as I keep her informed of any problems.
Just to note - it is a bit of a challenge to open the capsule and pour out the bb's and then divide them into 4 little piles. I'm using a plate and a knife and they sure do roll around and it takes a steady hand. Since I have the XR which is time released, I don't think it would be advisable to dissolve in water and drink 1/4 at a time. Any suggestions?
winddancer
Posted by SLS on March 18, 2005, at 21:26:01
In reply to Re: What I meant to ask - Copied,Pasted,Error In Post » SLS, posted by winddancer on March 18, 2005, at 20:29:00
> Thanks for your inquiry. This is my 3rd day of taking only 1/4 dose at a time only 3 times a day and I'm still doing well. I was out all day - with keeping dr appts, and other errands and was met with frustration in traffic taking me hours longer to get back home than I had hoped, but I maintained an even composure even when I had to add extra errands to my day. I did manage to get to the gym for an hour and 1/2 workout and I know that helps. My naturopath is very pleased with my progress and has agreed to provide me with some herbs and other things just from a phone call if I find myself slipping. She's confident that there are many options for keeping me emotionally healthy as long as I keep her informed of any problems.
>
> Just to note - it is a bit of a challenge to open the capsule and pour out the bb's and then divide them into 4 little piles. I'm using a plate and a knife and they sure do roll around and it takes a steady hand. Since I have the XR which is time released, I don't think it would be advisable to dissolve in water and drink 1/4 at a time. Any suggestions?I don't know if the pellets will disolve in water. Do they? If they do, your method should work just fine. It would probably be the easiest way to go about it. I guess you can always buy some empty capsules and use a folded and creased piece of paper to fill them. That way you can take them along with you conveniently. I wouldn't worry about the XR thing. As long as the pellets are mixed randomly in the capsules, I can't see how it would matter. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
I found that the pellets were not at all bitter in taste. I simply placed the pellets in my mouth and washed them down with water. I'm sure you can be quite a bit more creative than that, though!
Hopefully, your doctor will be willing to prescribe you the 25mg tablets to work with. It would make things much easier.
- Scott
Posted by winddancer on March 18, 2005, at 21:42:27
In reply to Re: What I meant to ask - Copied,Pasted,Error In Post » winddancer, posted by SLS on March 18, 2005, at 21:26:01
I thought you had divided the capsules in 1/4ths?? How did you do it? or did you have tablets? I did try to dissolve them once with no luck - they sank to the bottom and wouldn't even disperse in the water. I was in a hurry and didn't try it more than a minute. Good idea to get some empty capsules - a lot of work - but then the idea is to do this only until I don't need them and hopefully that will be pretty soon.
winddancer
Posted by SLS on March 18, 2005, at 22:00:24
In reply to Re: What I meant to ask - Copied,Pasted,Error In Post » SLS, posted by winddancer on March 18, 2005, at 21:42:27
> I thought you had divided the capsules in 1/4ths??
I was working with 150mg XR capsules. Fun. :-)
> How did you do it?
I'll never tell. :-)
Actually, because I dosed so flexibly, I could eyeball the amount of medication I wanted to take out of the capsule, deposit it on my tongue, and wash it down with water.
> or did you have tablets?
Get the 25mg tablets if you think you want to follow the schedule I suggested over on the Withdrawal board. Did you print it out? I am looking forward to see you continue with it and hope you will have as much luck with it as I have. I don't know to what degree this withdrawal strategy can be generalized. It will take quite a few success stories to legitimize it.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on March 18, 2005, at 22:09:23
In reply to Re: What I meant to ask - Copied,Pasted,Error In Post » winddancer, posted by SLS on March 18, 2005, at 21:26:01
I've heard that a lot of people mix them in yogurt or something else like that. Fondly,Phillipa
Posted by winddancer on March 18, 2005, at 22:25:22
In reply to Re: What I meant to ask - Copied,Pasted,Error In Post » winddancer, posted by SLS on March 18, 2005, at 22:00:24
[I changed the subject.]
Yes I printed out the withdrawal schedule. I thought we were on the withdrawal board?? !! Oh, well.
Philipa just posted that some people mix with yogurt - now that might disperse the pellets better and be easier to take along if you can't stay at home.
So are you completely off the Effexor now? Or do you go back on it occasionally?
So far I'm feeling optomistic - but I don't want to get too confident and taper too fast. Thanks for your interest. Should we go back to posting on the withdrawal board?winddancer
Posted by Phillipa on March 18, 2005, at 22:36:58
In reply to Weaning off Effexor - logistics » SLS, posted by winddancer on March 18, 2005, at 22:25:22
Dr. Bob is away for a week and has left others in charge. It will be interesting to see if this gets redirected there. Fondly, Phillipa
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.