![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 26 to 50 of 80. Go back in thread:
Posted by franco neuro on February 21, 2005, at 23:09:01
In reply to Re: rEEG System Helps Guide Prescribing, posted by KaraS on February 21, 2005, at 2:36:24
Hi,
I just happened to get lucky. (I hope it turns out to be good luck.) I read a book called "The Edge Effect" and it turned out the dr. who wrote it is located in New York City. I live right across the river in New Jersey so I went. I don't know if this stuff works or not. I just had it done recently and haven't started on the med/meds to correct the "problem" it detected yet. I have read a lot about it though and it does seem to have some scientific merit. As far as I can tell when some docs use the EEG or QEEG(Quantitative EEG) for diagnostic purposes they refer to it as rEEG (Referernce EEG). My doc uses a QEEG and calls it "brain mapping". I think it's pretty much the same thing. Here are some links that may be helpful. Just do a google search for QEEG and put your state or province etc. Good luck...
http://www.snr-jnt.org/topics/qeeg/eegbiofeedback.htm
http://www.crossroadsinstitute.org/brainmap.html
http://www.brooksideinstitute.com/research-news-archive/research-emory-eeg.html
http://www.drmarkschiller.com/note.htm
http://www.passagesmalibu.com/rehab.cfm?Display=Neuropsychiatry
http://www.nyacadtbi.org/members.htm
http://www.qeeg.com/
http://home.iprimus.com.au/rboon/QuantitativeElectroencephalographQEEG.htm
http://www.q-metrx.com/qeeg.htm
Posted by KaraS on February 22, 2005, at 3:24:17
In reply to Re: rEEG System Helps Guide Prescribing » KaraS, posted by franco neuro on February 21, 2005, at 23:09:01
> Hi,
>
> I just happened to get lucky. (I hope it turns out to be good luck.) I read a book called "The Edge Effect" and it turned out the dr. who wrote it is located in New York City. I live right across the river in New Jersey so I went. I don't know if this stuff works or not. I just had it done recently and haven't started on the med/meds to correct the "problem" it detected yet. I have read a lot about it though and it does seem to have some scientific merit. As far as I can tell when some docs use the EEG or QEEG(Quantitative EEG) for diagnostic purposes they refer to it as rEEG (Referernce EEG). My doc uses a QEEG and calls it "brain mapping". I think it's pretty much the same thing. Here are some links that may be helpful. Just do a google search for QEEG and put your state or province etc. Good luck...
>
> http://www.snr-jnt.org/topics/qeeg/eegbiofeedback.htm
> http://www.crossroadsinstitute.org/brainmap.html
> http://www.brooksideinstitute.com/research-news-archive/research-emory-eeg.html
> http://www.drmarkschiller.com/note.htm
> http://www.passagesmalibu.com/rehab.cfm?Display=Neuropsychiatry
> http://www.nyacadtbi.org/members.htm
> http://www.qeeg.com/
> http://home.iprimus.com.au/rboon/QuantitativeElectroencephalographQEEG.htm
> http://www.q-metrx.com/qeeg.htm
Thanks. I've been following this thread and I recently requested Dr. Braverman's book from the library. I also went to his website. I like that he has a such a complete way of dealing with depression - both holistic and traditional. I'm fascinated by the QEEG testing as well. I'm very curious to see how you make it.Take care,
Kara
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 22, 2005, at 7:25:25
In reply to Re: rEEG System Helps Guide Prescribing » KaraS, posted by franco neuro on February 21, 2005, at 23:09:01
> I read a book called "The Edge Effect" and it turned out the dr. who wrote it is located in New York City...
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book, movie, or music without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by franco neuro on February 22, 2005, at 9:25:22
In reply to Re: double double quotes » franco neuro, posted by Dr. Bob on February 22, 2005, at 7:25:25
Interesting. Will definitely use the double quotes in the future.
Posted by franco neuro on February 22, 2005, at 9:28:46
In reply to Re: rEEG System Helps Guide Prescribing » franco neuro, posted by KaraS on February 22, 2005, at 3:24:17
I'm curious to see how I make out too:-) I'll keep you posted.
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 22, 2005, at 20:57:05
In reply to Re: double double quotes » Dr. Bob, posted by franco neuro on February 22, 2005, at 9:25:22
Posted by SLS on February 23, 2005, at 6:29:57
In reply to Re: rEEG System Helps Guide Prescribing » KaraS, posted by franco neuro on February 21, 2005, at 23:09:01
Hi.
Was QEEG ever referred to as BEAM (brain electrical activity mapping)? I had that done in 1990. It didn't seem to serve any clinical purpose.
They are probably different.
- Scott
Posted by franco neuro on February 24, 2005, at 13:48:39
In reply to Re: rEEG System Helps Guide Prescribing » franco neuro, posted by SLS on February 23, 2005, at 6:29:57
I'm not sure about this but I think QEEG, rEEG, BEAM and Brain Mapping are all pretty much the same thing. I'm curious as to what the results of your test were. What did the doc who gave it to you suggest to you regarding the results of the test and your "problem", diagnosis, etc.?
Posted by SLS on February 24, 2005, at 20:54:47
In reply to Re: rEEG System Helps Guide Prescribing, posted by franco neuro on February 24, 2005, at 13:48:39
> I'm not sure about this but I think QEEG, rEEG, BEAM and Brain Mapping are all pretty much the same thing. I'm curious as to what the results of your test were. What did the doc who gave it to you suggest to you regarding the results of the test and your "problem", diagnosis, etc.?
I was hospitalized at the time. With everything else going on, the results of the test remained unknown to me. I don't know if they influenced the clinical decisions that were made.
- Scott
Posted by franco neuro on February 24, 2005, at 21:16:22
In reply to Re: rEEG System Helps Guide Prescribing, posted by SLS on February 24, 2005, at 20:54:47
I hear ya'. I think it's possible that they might be able to pick up some major imbalances in brain "circuitry" but who knows. I'm not sold on the effecacy of these tests yet, but the doc I went to has sort of an interesting approach. He uses the QEEG in combination with personality and psychological tests. Only been to see him a couple of times so far though...
Posted by Daniel Hoffman, M.D. on March 19, 2005, at 17:12:20
In reply to Re: rEEG System Helps Guide Prescribing » SLS, posted by franco neuro on February 24, 2005, at 21:16:22
I ran across this thread and thought I'd shed some light on this confusion. A QEEG is a digital EEG (previous EEG's cannot be used to extract the data you want). What you DO with the data is the important issue. Everything in this thread has been talking about different uses than the article or the medication effects you're searching for. An rEEG is a "referenced" EEG originally done by years of research from 2 very bright and ethical scientist. The digital EEG is sent through a database that correlates the brain's electrical activity with the drug's known effects on the brainwaves. Therefore a more precise statistical analysis can, in essence, produce a report whereby people with your brainwaves have "X" probability of a positive response with the medication or combination of medications suggested. For those of us who've used this, our independant analysis seems to range from 72-95% success (being defined as "was the database either essential or very important" in getting the patient to our final regieme. I can no longer see practicing psychiatry without something like this. We are beyond the point of "throwing it against the wall to see what sticks" and this is the beginning of a new horizon, I believe. The website for the company is www.cnsresponse.com
Daniel Hoffman, M.D. - Neuropsychiatrist
Posted by Jakeman on March 20, 2005, at 13:14:11
In reply to Re: rEEG System Helps Guide Prescribing, posted by Daniel Hoffman, M.D. on March 19, 2005, at 17:12:20
> I ran across this thread and thought I'd shed some light on this confusion. A QEEG is a digital EEG (previous EEG's cannot be used to extract the data you want). What you DO with the data is the important issue. Everything in this thread has been talking about different uses than the article or the medication effects you're searching for. An rEEG is a "referenced" EEG originally done by years of research from 2 very bright and ethical scientist. The digital EEG is sent through a database that correlates the brain's electrical activity with the drug's known effects on the brainwaves. Therefore a more precise statistical analysis can, in essence, produce a report whereby people with your brainwaves have "X" probability of a positive response with the medication or combination of medications suggested. For those of us who've used this, our independant analysis seems to range from 72-95% success (being defined as "was the database either essential or very important" in getting the patient to our final regieme. I can no longer see practicing psychiatry without something like this. We are beyond the point of "throwing it against the wall to see what sticks" and this is the beginning of a new horizon, I believe. The website for the company is www.cnsresponse.com
> Daniel Hoffman, M.D. - NeuropsychiatristDr. Hoffman,
Thanks for your input and clearing up some of the confusion. A very common complaint on this board is the difficulty in finding a physician who will do more than just "throw against the wall and see what sticks." In my case I've tried at least 15 anti-depressants over the last 10 years. Some of the SSRI's worked well at first but pooped out over the course of a year or so. So I seem to have evolved into a treatment resistant individual. I'm wondering if rEEG takes into account the poop-out factor that is so prevalent these days. I'm assuming that rEEG would not provide any info on underlying physical problems that could cause or being contributing factors in depression, such as nutritional deficiencies or problems with hormones or metabolism.Do you have any suggestions about how one could find a psychiatrist who uses rEEG? I noticed the cnsresponse.com site listed only three practictioners.
Thanks for your comments. -Jake
Posted by Ritch on March 20, 2005, at 16:42:48
In reply to Re: rEEG System Helps Guide Prescribing, posted by Daniel Hoffman, M.D. on March 19, 2005, at 17:12:20
> I ran across this thread and thought I'd shed some light on this confusion. A QEEG is a digital EEG (previous EEG's cannot be used to extract the data you want). What you DO with the data is the important issue. Everything in this thread has been talking about different uses than the article or the medication effects you're searching for. An rEEG is a "referenced" EEG originally done by years of research from 2 very bright and ethical scientist. The digital EEG is sent through a database that correlates the brain's electrical activity with the drug's known effects on the brainwaves. Therefore a more precise statistical analysis can, in essence, produce a report whereby people with your brainwaves have "X" probability of a positive response with the medication or combination of medications suggested. For those of us who've used this, our independant analysis seems to range from 72-95% success (being defined as "was the database either essential or very important" in getting the patient to our final regieme. I can no longer see practicing psychiatry without something like this. We are beyond the point of "throwing it against the wall to see what sticks" and this is the beginning of a new horizon, I believe. The website for the company is www.cnsresponse.com
> Daniel Hoffman, M.D. - NeuropsychiatristSo, a QEEG is an *individual* digital EEG that is done on an individual specific patient? I think I've gotten that one. However, the understanding of the composition of the rEEG database is still a little muddy to me. Also, do all psychiatric medications alter brainwave activity? How well do brainwaves mirror or reflect psychopathology? Can someone be indisputably schizophrenic (i.e.) and have a statistically normal QEEG? How would that square with this concept? Just curious...
Posted by Daniel Hoffman, M.D. on March 20, 2005, at 19:15:21
In reply to Re: rEEG System Helps Guide Prescribing » Daniel Hoffman, M.D., posted by Jakeman on March 20, 2005, at 13:14:11
Jake-
The rEEG makes no assumptions about diagnosis and can't predict side effects. With Poop-Out, I would predict that the rEEG would choose different medications than you had, or perhaps a combination such that the receptor would hold and not change it's regulation, thus keeping the effects. For example, mood stabilizers often will keep a receptor from re-regulating and thus Poop-out may not occur. Anecdotal stories of adding modafinal (Provigil) seemed to help prevent poop-out in some cases.The rEEG can't tell you about hormones, etc other than the net effect of such things on brainwaves. They do have, however, in their database, some of the natural products and sometimes can substitute a natural product for a pharmeceutical product.
Regarding where to get an rEEG... The company is small with little capacity and there aren't enough of people like me who know electrophysiology to make this common place. However, there is a large Neurofeedback community and most of them have the ability to collect the data in such a way that it can be processed by CNS. Then, you'd need a doctor that would be willing to consult with them or me or some medical director to help interpret and implement the results. You might want to write CNS and tell them where you're located as well as post it here. We might know someone in your area. Hope this is helpful.
Posted by Daniel Hoffman, M.D. on March 20, 2005, at 19:23:33
In reply to Re: rEEG System Helps Guide Prescribing » Daniel Hoffman, M.D., posted by Ritch on March 20, 2005, at 16:42:48
> > I ran across this thread and thought I'd shed some light on this confusion. A QEEG is a digital EEG (previous EEG's cannot be used to extract the data you want). What you DO with the data is the important issue. Everything in this thread has been talking about different uses than the article or the medication effects you're searching for. An rEEG is a "referenced" EEG originally done by years of research from 2 very bright and ethical scientist. The digital EEG is sent through a database that correlates the brain's electrical activity with the drug's known effects on the brainwaves. Therefore a more precise statistical analysis can, in essence, produce a report whereby people with your brainwaves have "X" probability of a positive response with the medication or combination of medications suggested. For those of us who've used this, our independant analysis seems to range from 72-95% success (being defined as "was the database either essential or very important" in getting the patient to our final regieme. I can no longer see practicing psychiatry without something like this. We are beyond the point of "throwing it against the wall to see what sticks" and this is the beginning of a new horizon, I believe. The website for the company is www.cnsresponse.com
> > Daniel Hoffman, M.D. - Neuropsychiatrist
>
> So, a QEEG is an *individual* digital EEG that is done on an individual specific patient? I think I've gotten that one. However, the understanding of the composition of the rEEG database is still a little muddy to me. Also, do all psychiatric medications alter brainwave activity? How well do brainwaves mirror or reflect psychopathology? Can someone be indisputably schizophrenic (i.e.) and have a statistically normal QEEG? How would that square with this concept? Just curious...The rEEG database takes the digital (QEEG) and first compares the patient's brain to a normative database. Then it takes these "abnormalities" and by using formulas etc (knowing the drug signature of each medication) it matches the patients brain to which medications will balance it. It does not contain the atypical antipsychotic medication at this time. It does not always match with our current nomenclature. For example, many patients who look depressed don't even show an antidepressant on the radar screen. Is that depression? a subtype? A study of 39 patients who were given 17 different diagnoses all turned out to have the same brain and respond to the same drug. I've never seen a patient with significant clinical symptoms have a normal rEEG, but I have seen patients who come back saying that having gotten off the medicine for the test in the first time in 10 years they feel better, and the rEEG results suggest that not very much is wrong with them. The schizophrenia example is not the best, since again, those meds aren't in the database - yet.
Posted by Jakeman on March 21, 2005, at 22:54:19
In reply to Re: rEEG System Helps Guide Prescribing » Jakeman, posted by Daniel Hoffman, M.D. on March 20, 2005, at 19:15:21
> Jake-
> The rEEG makes no assumptions about diagnosis and can't predict side effects. With Poop-Out, I would predict that the rEEG would choose different medications than you had, or perhaps a combination such that the receptor would hold and not change it's regulation, thus keeping the effects. For example, mood stabilizers often will keep a receptor from re-regulating and thus Poop-out may not occur. Anecdotal stories of adding modafinal (Provigil) seemed to help prevent poop-out in some cases.
>
> The rEEG can't tell you about hormones, etc other than the net effect of such things on brainwaves. They do have, however, in their database, some of the natural products and sometimes can substitute a natural product for a pharmeceutical product.
>
> Regarding where to get an rEEG... The company is small with little capacity and there aren't enough of people like me who know electrophysiology to make this common place. However, there is a large Neurofeedback community and most of them have the ability to collect the data in such a way that it can be processed by CNS. Then, you'd need a doctor that would be willing to consult with them or me or some medical director to help interpret and implement the results. You might want to write CNS and tell them where you're located as well as post it here. We might know someone in your area. Hope this is helpful.
---------------------Thanks for your feedback. I once suggested augmenting Celexa with a mood stabilizer to my doctor, he didn't agree with it for some reason. That's a good ideal about writing CNS, I'll follow up on that. I live in the Austin area. The Clinical Psychiatry News article at the beginning of this thread mentioned research being conducted at the University of Texas. So I might be able to find a contact there (or maybe be a participant in the clinical trial...)
-Jake
Posted by Daniel Hoffman, M.D. on March 21, 2005, at 23:07:30
In reply to Re: rEEG System Helps Guide Prescribing » Daniel Hoffman, M.D., posted by Jakeman on March 21, 2005, at 22:54:19
Jake,
If you can't hook up with anyone, I know of someone who could collect the data in Austin - but you'd still need an MD to prescribe based on the results.
Posted by Iansf on March 22, 2005, at 2:00:11
In reply to Re: rEEG System Helps Guide Prescribing » Jakeman, posted by Daniel Hoffman, M.D. on March 21, 2005, at 23:07:30
Dr. Hoffman, you mention that rEEG cannot predict side effects. So it seems the methodology would be useful primarily to people who have not tried many meds or who have not got relief from the meds they did try
It seems to me that those who have tried a variety of meds, which applies to many people on this board, could end up spending a lot of money only to be recommended drugs they previously discontinued because of intolerable, or at least unacceptable, side effects.
Certainly for me, side effects, not effectiveness, have been the real issue. Several SSRIs helped me a lot with both depression and social phobia, but all had what I considered unacceptable side effects, and efforts to counteract the side effects proved futile. On the other hand, Wellbutrin has no side effects but unfortunately only helps a little with depression and not at all with social phobia.
In case,s like mine, I can't see that rEEG would be of much benefit. Is this correct, or is there something I'm not seeing? Thank you.
Posted by Daniel Hoffman, M.D. on March 22, 2005, at 8:51:16
In reply to Re: rEEG System Helps Guide Prescribing » Daniel Hoffman, M.D., posted by Iansf on March 22, 2005, at 2:00:11
Your comments about side effects are "sort of" correct. Most of the people I've seen have been on many meds - upto 30 trials. So the person who has tried several medications is actually the primary target for this test. Often the person was on the right meds, but not the right combination to balance the brain and thus attain symptom relief. Sometimes, we can do a second rEEG with the meds on board and see if a remaining problem is due to some other finding popping up or perhaps dosing didn't move the EEG towards normal. However if the only problem is side effects not effectiveness of medications, than I would tend to agree that unless the rEEG offers a different class of drugs that one could in fact tolerate, it may not be as worthwhile. The problem is you don't know. There could be a few ways to treat a problem. E.G., if you can't tolerate SSRI's for example, maybe the same could be accomplished with a beta blocker and a stimulant (just as a hypothetical), in which case tolerability is resolved.
Posted by WeeWilly on March 22, 2005, at 14:43:16
In reply to Re: rEEG System Helps Guide Prescribing, posted by Daniel Hoffman, M.D. on March 22, 2005, at 8:51:16
This smells like snake oil. Where are the studies to back up these claims. The main problem with the treatment of mood disorders is we do not know what are the causes of mood disorders. In my case I am certain it is an endocrine problem and not a serotonin,ne or dopamine imbalance. I suspect that many others have a endocrine problem that is the root of their mood disorder. Maybe I am wrong but something about this rEEG system sounds phony.
Posted by franco neuro on March 22, 2005, at 15:38:57
In reply to Re: rEEG System Helps Guide Prescribing, posted by Daniel Hoffman, M.D. on March 22, 2005, at 8:51:16
Please allow me to throw my two cents into this discussion. Generally when I see a doctor post a message on psycho-babble I figure they're here trying to drum up business. Forgive my cynicism, but it's born of the experiences I've had in dealing with the medical community over the past few years. Having said that, I found the following sentence from your previous post very intriguing.
> There could be a few ways to treat a problem. E.G., if you can't tolerate SSRI's for example, maybe the same could be accomplished with a beta blocker and a stimulant (just as a hypothetical), in which case tolerability is resolved.
This tells me that you are someone who thinks outside of the box. A quality I've yet to come across in any of the doctors I've seen. And believe me I've seen dozens of doctors over the past few years. Maybe I'm just a hard case. Five or six years ago I went through a particularly stressful period. The dysthymia and GAD that I had chosen to ignore for the previous decade suddenly turned into a full blown neurosomatic disorder. I now have chronic pain, chronic fatigue, IBS, anhedonia and depression. (I ask you how could one not be depressed with the aforementioned problems?) In a headlong rush to find relief I bounced from doctor to doctor. And like many (if not most) of the people on this website, I began bouncing haphazardly from one medication to another while learning nothing in the process.
About two years ago I decided to become my own "medical detective." One of the books I read was "The Edge Effect" by Dr. Eric Braverman. It's an interesting, although somewhat simplistic book. In fairness, any book dealing with brain function that is aimed at the general public has to be "simplified" or no one would understand it. In the book he talks about how QEEG "Brain Mapping" is a large part of his diagnostic process. I was looking for a doctor who used this so I went to see him and had it done. (Ridiculously overpriced of course.) According to him the test showed that I have very low dopamine. Now I don't know if he used a comparative database or his own experience in using this device but it was the result I had come to expect. Here's why:
1. I'd been experimenting with amino acids during the past year and found that tyrosine helped me. Tyrosine, of course, is the precursor to dopamine and norepinephrine.
2. My father and uncle both take medications for parkinsonism. A condition of low dopamine. Perhaps indicating a genetic predisposition toward dopamine burnout.
3. SSRI's have not helped me. While slightly elevating mood they have tended to increase apathy and make my physical symptoms worse. Not only that. When I recently stopped taking Zoloft I had the best 2 or 3 days physically and mentally that I've had in a few years. Perhaps this is due to my serotonin level dropping below the pre-medication baseline for a couple of days until my brain was able to compensate for the cessation of the medication by increasing endogenous levels/transmission. I'm not a scientist so I may be totally wrong about this. However, if this is the case than maybe I'd benefit form a serotonin antagonist along with a dopaminergic med. Unfortunately when it comes to raising dopamine levels, our choices are few.
It would be nice to talk to Dr. Braverman about this but he isn't around much. He's been on Larry King and Neil Cavuto so I'm starting to worry that he aspires to be a celebrity. Even when he happens to be in the office it's virtually impossible to see him for more than a minute. So the frustration continues. If it gets bad enough maybe I'll hop in the car and drive to Colorado. Not likely though. I'm too darned tired. For now I think I'll just try picking a psychopharmacologist out of the phone book. It shouldn't be hard considering there are only 3 listed.
So the point of this rather long winded post is that I believe that the evidence taken in it's entirety may finally be pointing me in the right direction. In my case at least, the QEEG may have proven itself to be of use. Of course had my QEEG come up with a result other than the one I expected, I would be even more confused than ever. But until I get on the right medication and correct (as much as is possible) the suspected imbalance and start to feel better (God willing) I won't be able to say for sure how much it has helped me.
By the way, are you familiar with the work of Dr. Jay A. Goldstein? I was considering going out to California to see him but he retired last year. I just read his book "Tuning the Brain". Awesome book. It's a must read. Particularly if some of your patients with psychological problems have concomitant neurosomatic disorders. He's got me thinking that an NMDA antagonist might also help me. Although dopamine itself antagonizes NMDA. He's twenty years ahead of the rest of the medical community. No offense intended. :-)
Posted by Phillipa on March 22, 2005, at 16:02:46
In reply to Re: rEEG System Helps Guide Prescribing » Daniel Hoffman, M.D., posted by franco neuro on March 22, 2005, at 15:38:57
I would like to know how a person like me could feel the effects of meds so intensely, that I couldn't take any AD's. I did tolerate Luvox and actually got up to 250mg at which point the pdoc I was seeing[has since been in newspapers locally for medical fraud and illegal distribution of controlled substances], discontinued it. He said he needed l0 people for a Celexa trial when the med first came out. I refused, so when I came in for my appointment he said "you're catatonic", and I'm taking you off the med and putting you on Celexa. I wasn't catatonic, I had been attending A Group that stressed only doing one task a day and training your body to relax. Anyway I felt like death on the Celexa. I also was on xanax. He finally took me off after a month of misery. I also found out I had chronic active Lymes Disease at this time. Anyway since then I've never been able to tolerate even the luvox at doses over l2.5mg. Now it seems as if my body doesn't even respond to Ad's. I've been put on cymbalta, zoloft, remeron, and don't feel a thing. The only med that still seems to have an effect on me is valium. So what is my problem? Oh I've finished menopause. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Iansf on March 22, 2005, at 18:48:45
In reply to Extremely skeptical, posted by WeeWilly on March 22, 2005, at 14:43:16
> This smells like snake oil. Where are the studies to back up these claims. The main problem with the treatment of mood disorders is we do not know what are the causes of mood disorders. In my case I am certain it is an endocrine problem and not a serotonin,ne or dopamine imbalance. I suspect that many others have a endocrine problem that is the root of their mood disorder. Maybe I am wrong but something about this rEEG system sounds phony.
>
Calling rEEG snake oil seems rather harsh. In my opinion, it's always wise to be somewhat skeptical of new approaches, but as described by Dr. Hoffman it certainly sounds like rEEG has reasonable scientific grounding. It may not be THE answer, but generally it looks to be heading in the right direction.
And the fact that problems show up in brain wave patterns doesn't necessarily rule out an endocrine imbalance as a cause of mental imbalances. After all, everything going on in your body is ultimately tied to the brain.
It's conceivable that in some - perhaps all - cases, using meds that re-regulate the brain is treating a symptom, not a source. But surely tracking down a source outside the brain would be helped by looking at brainwave patterns, then tracing them back to the body systems most likely to affect the brain in that way.
All innovative therapies need polishing to achieve their full potential. Dr. Hoffman's approach holds promise. Be skeptical, but don't dismiss it out of hand.
Posted by Daniel Hoffman, M.D. on March 22, 2005, at 19:03:34
In reply to Re: rEEG System Helps Guide Prescribing, posted by Phillipa on March 22, 2005, at 16:02:46
It was with great reluctance that I entered into this thread. Nothing tics me off more than people questioning my integrity. I still see medicine as a very noble profession, so when someone is cynical or skeptical of my life's passions and volunteer commitments to help others with my EXTREMELY busy schedule, I don't take kindly to it. Now I know no one knows me and there is plenty of reason to be skeptical, but suffice it to say that I have been trying very hard to correct erroneous impressions of rEEG that were posted on this thread that were brought to my attention inadvertently. I have no desire nor need to drum up any business from anyone. I've devoted much of my neuropsychiatric career to helping bring my profession out of the dark ages. I've published, am a consulting editor of 3 national peer reviewed journals, etc and my goal was to offer some education on this topic. To summarize the original points I was trying to make initially:
Brain-mapping or any other QEEG analysis differs from rEEG in one extremely key easy to understand way. ONLY rEEG uses an outcome database – patients who were treated successfully and unsuccessfully. That is why it is more directly relevant to medication selection. Other approaches only had a comparison to a normative database – that is people without symptoms These identify differences from the norm but then had to make suppositions about what might correct the norms or perhaps what diagnosis was appropriate. Because of the patient database, rEEG goes the next step and asks, in fact what medications work most of the time for people having those aberrations. Without this data everything is necessarily a guess. So the lesson here is you can learn more from patients who have been treated than you can from untreated and asymptomatic individuals.
The scientists who spent 18 years developing this database on their own time are some of the top people I've ever met, and stand up well to scutiny with professors and chairmans at Stanford, Harvard, etc - where in fact research pilots are starting. There are some publications on this and some submitted. A field has to start somewhere. This is not a panacea, but offers some people an evidence based approach to their neurophysiology with possible alternatives and objectivity beyond nomenclature.
Eric Braverman uses QEEG, but not rEEG - yet. He has been exposed to it and is impressed with it (as far as I can tell).
I hope my input has clarified some things. I will now bow out to the sidelines, least I be further accused of trying to drum up business. While it is hard for me to say no to someone asking, I will make it a rule not to accept any inquiries from anyone on this site to support my independent objective uncomprimising position.
Posted by Phillipa on March 22, 2005, at 19:56:14
In reply to Re: Extremely skeptical » WeeWilly, posted by Iansf on March 22, 2005, at 18:48:45
I personally, am very honored that Dr. Hoffman took time away from his certainly very busy schedule, and attempts at leisure life. I have already forwarded his responses to quite a few people that I knew would benefit from his insight and knowledge. I appreciate your contrabution to the PsychBabble Board. I know this has given me and a lot of others faith that all pdocs are not "owned" by the drug companies, and truly have the best interests of their patients at heart. Congratulations, Dr. Hoffman, for not being afraid to stand up and be heard. To step forward and educate us to the promise of better treatment in the future. I graciously thank you. Fondly, Phillipa
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