![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 8351 to 8375 of 10407. Go back in thread:
Posted by winddancer on February 15, 2005, at 18:11:24
In reply to Re: Why worst fears realized- Corafree, posted by Phillipa on February 15, 2005, at 17:18:56
Hey Blucky,
Don't go there - losing the taste of life! Your comments made me laugh - maybe that's why our eyesight fails as we age - so we can't see the details to know how old we look. :-) I try not to go to the idea of my pain being from age. I really think the meds have a lot to do with it, and consequently I don't work-out as I used to, and then I feel worse because of that, and my muscles don't hold me in place - a viscious circle - so I'm going to get serious about getting back into fit shape again and get off this ridiculous medicine and stick with alternative therapies and natural solutions for any health concerns.
winddancer
Posted by corafree on February 15, 2005, at 21:40:53
In reply to Re: Armour Thyroid » corafree, posted by dancingstar on February 15, 2005, at 15:18:54
Concurrently w/ taking one-half of my 75mg levothyroxine, did the following:
After coffees in morn w/ a couple choline-inositols (500mg/500mg), think I took another couple to handle the prob' 4 pepsis I had (out of water and too shook up to go store), so that would be 4 choline-inositols in 48hrs. Didn't take them all at once, but hadn't read the bottle, just the post (duh), and bottle reads one per day.
Now I wonder maybe that was the culprit, as this is a heart indicated alternative I believe. , so thinkin' the choline-inositol could have been reason for tremors, palpitations, etc. Thought on Alternatives, posted one w/ each cup, so didn't question it.
I'm sure I deserve a good 'yelling at'. Ya know, you guys, cannot afford ambulance, or ER visit. I did ask someone and they told me to call an ambulance.
I took my 75mg levothyroxine midday today. Have not taken any choline-inositol since yesterday. I'm feeling better.
Thank you all ... I just try do what I can ... and there are just some things I can't, cf
Posted by Phillipa on February 15, 2005, at 22:12:57
In reply to Re: Why worst fears realized- Corafree, posted by Phillipa on February 15, 2005, at 17:18:56
That's what I thought I was doing. I thought, okay I can't turn back the clock, but I can control to some extent what my body looks and feels like. So, lift wts, gain too much muscle means I look fatter and clothes don't fit. Meanwhile from so much excercise my muscles and back begin to hurt. I started a vicious cycle. And yes, I was better off wearing glasses and complaining all the time that I couldn't see. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 15, 2005, at 23:48:45
In reply to Thyroid OR Choline-Inositol ? palps/hyperventilate » dancingstar, posted by corafree on February 15, 2005, at 21:40:53
> After coffees in morn w/ a couple choline-inositols (500mg/500mg)...
Sorry if it's confusing here, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding choline-inositol to Psycho-Babble Alternative. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20050131/msgs/458546.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by elka on February 18, 2005, at 0:09:49
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by Caz on February 11, 2000, at 20:46:26
hello everybody, i was so happy to find this board! i've been going completely nuts with my side effect from effexor xr - from the day1 in addition to all other 'pleasant' stuff like severe nausea, jitterness, tiredness, fatigue, etc., i've been having very scary symptoms -severe palpitations, very irregular heart beat, skeeping beats... this happens in spite of my being physically healthy. my psydoc said that this is not common at all for effexor and she doudts that it's a side effect. but i've started to have those severe palpitations several times a day when i started effexor at the dose of 37.5 3 weeks ago! anybody experienced that? if yes, what to do with this? i'm ready to go to emr every time i have those scary stuff...i have to take klonopin to cope with palpitations and overall anxiety which had increased with effexor. any feedback will be greatly appreciated!!! good luck to all of us, searchers of better being...:)
Posted by dancingstar on February 18, 2005, at 1:30:47
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by elka on February 18, 2005, at 0:09:49
It sounds like your pdoc is either very inexperienced or not telling you the truth.
I can't tell you what to do, but I would never have taken it if I knew as much about it when I began to take it three years ago as I do today. www.wyeth.com. Do your own research, and make your own decisions.
Best of luck to you.
Posted by Jen2 on February 18, 2005, at 7:59:24
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by elka on February 18, 2005, at 0:09:49
> severe nausea, jitterness, tiredness, fatigue, etc., i've been having very scary symptoms -severe palpitations, very irregular heart beat, skeeping beats... this happens in spite of my being physically healthy.
I would second that motion - your doctor seems ill informed. I spent the first week on Effexor thinking I was going to die. Besides a variety of other symptoms, I also had palpitations and racing heart - but perhaps not as severe as yours.
You're not alone.
Jen
Posted by elka on February 18, 2005, at 11:40:17
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by Jen2 on February 18, 2005, at 7:59:24
thank you so much guys for responding!!!
jen2, are you still on effexor or did you quit after 1week? i just had another episode of severe palpitations coming from nowhere ( and i'm still on 37.5mg!) can't even think about what to expect if the dose will be increased?
dancingstar, thanks for the site!
i'm convincing my dr to switch to another AD that addresses both, depression and anxiety, and i did a lot of my own research, but i still can't find the right answer for me...
anybody else has anything reassuring about any drugs or combos that REALLY work with min horrifying side effects?
thanks to all of you! :)
Posted by dancingstar on February 18, 2005, at 12:03:39
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by elka on February 18, 2005, at 11:40:17
If there's any hope that this will pass and you are not severely depressed, knowing what I know now, I would skip that AD's entirely for fear of the risks to your body. I'm not convinced there's a shred of real proof that they work for most people, and plenty of us will tell you that they can increase both anxiety and depression, though there are some people they say otherwise, and certainly the psychiatric community disagrees.
While this has been my conclusion, I wouldn't suggest that someone else make it theirs without doing their own research as I did mine. Doing that research, though, could spare you the neurological or other serious problems that some of us currently suffer from, including liver disease or the heart problems that you speak of.
It seems hard to deny that there is a possibility of strokes, high and low blood pressure, and cardiac disease caused by these drugs when the manufacturers, themselves, have even begun to own up to these risks.
I know I've said this many times, and some people do not take me seriously...but truly exercise is a wonder drug when it comes to anxiety and depression as well as Omega 3 capsules (or salmon) and a good, healthy diet and a healthy endocrine system. (Have your thyroid checked.) Exercise is much, much more difficult when under the influence of antidepressants as they tend to cause residual or rebound pain after exercising, and many of us have experienced severe fatigue after taking antidepressant, in my case Effexor, for a number of weeks, exactly the opposite of what you might think, considering your current reaction (and mine as well, I might add).
When it comes to our health, we must each be our own advocate. There is no one that will truly look out for us besides ourselves and our loved ones.
Posted by elka on February 18, 2005, at 12:46:01
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » elka, posted by dancingstar on February 18, 2005, at 12:03:39
dear dancingstar,
thank you for your wisdom... i hear you, no i really hear you! i've been coming to this uneasy decision (taking drugs) for a very long time (several years) during which i've tried working with and on everything else (but the drugs) - balancing nutritions and healthy foods( i'm a very healthy eater), constantly excercising and trying to live a healthy life style ( of course with the exception for working 3 jobs - that was quite unhealthy which created a lot of stress!), doing various types of healing ( energy healing, accu-everything, massage, self-healing, etc), seriously exploring spirituality, combining different healing techniques and healthy supplements ( vit-s, minerals and aminos) - God, i think i've tried almost everything that's out there... and finally i made a decision that i need drugs to just help me to dig out of that horrible miserable black hole that i know i don't belong to and i don't want to be in under no curcumstances!!! and thus i've been searching which ones could be the least dangerous drugs for me in terms of side effects, and i tried a few before for a short periods of time ( like 1-2 months) with no positive effect of course... i know i am very sensitive biochemically and this is probably why i am having such severe reactions on psychotropic drugs ( i don't usually even take tolenol or aspirin). this is why i've decided to ask for help here ( which i've never done before...:) thanks again for your caring responses...
Posted by corafree on February 18, 2005, at 13:44:21
In reply to Re: Armour Thyroid--Troubled, posted by Daky on February 12, 2005, at 20:39:06
Daky, had a bit of a breakdown, following post late.
So the Cytomel for T3 is 4x more effective than T4 meds, and the T4 meds are Synthroid, levothyroxine, etc.? tks cf
Posted by dancingstar on February 18, 2005, at 14:35:45
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by elka on February 18, 2005, at 12:46:01
Elke,
I do worry about situations like yours when I write the things that I do. It is not that I have not been very sad, at times, myself. It is that I do not believe that these drugs are the answer to anyone's problems. People tend to think that I am insensitive to the plight of people that take antidepressants for depression because I was prescribed Effexor for back pain and a lack of energy -- it backfired, of course, and ultimately caused me more pain and less energy, but this process happened in a very slow way, and I wouldn't have known at all if I had not stopped taking it as I had come to believe that I had severe chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia; that I may not live much longer.
In September I decided to stop taking Effexor, and though I became more ill than I have ever been in my entire lifetime from doing so, I instantly regained my energy; and I can now do all of the things I was unable to do for three years. Two nights ago I took two classes at the gym; one boxing, my favorite as I used to teach kickboxing. And I was able to punch and kick until I was exhausted, go home, and wake up the next day without the debilitating pain and fatigue that I once had and thought had become a permanent part of my life.
I stopped taking Effexor, though, in September of last year, and I still have some residual effects in my nervous and gastrointestinal and possibly cardiovascular systems.
Three jobs...three jobs? Unless you love those jobs, Elke, that isn't an easy thing for anyone to cope with. Our hormones do not make the situation much easier. They become unbalanced quite easily, it is in some ways the nature of being women.
Now, please forgive me for going off the subject for a minute. Something you said struck me in a way that makes me say this, though I almost always keep my personal life to myself: I've been on my own since I was about 15 years old, and I know very well that there are many times and for long periods of time that life can be extremely trying. I've lost absolutely every single person that I've loved; so I know sadness as well as anyone, truly I do, but I do not think that sadness is a good enough reason to risk my health now that I know that these drugs can harm me.
And about sadness...for all people, if they give life a chance, I believe that sadness is fleeting; that if we wait a few weeks, we will feel better -- that is probably the time that antidepressants are said to work -- but there is a possibility that if we take antidepressants, that the sadness can become a permanent part of our lives, that they can damage our bodies in a way that can cause us to be sad, possibly, permanently.
Then there is love...and hope...and passion. Have you ever noticed how happy we are when there is something wonderful to look forward to? How the shadow of darkness lifts and the room is miraculously filled with light?
While I understand the problem, I just cannot tolerate a false "cure." I believe that the public has been sold a bill of goods that is untrue. But "beliefs" are nothing without proof, and I will continue on my journey to prove this to be true beyond any reasonable doubt.
Blessings,
Bebe
Posted by corafree on February 18, 2005, at 15:42:12
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by elka on February 18, 2005, at 0:09:49
I am sorry to say what comes to my mind. That is, your dosage is too low.
But, I don't know how severe your depression is.
Mine is pretty severe. When I was on E-XR @ a low dose, wish I'd found the info I've found on this site, or known more about possible long term effects, and discontinued E.
Currently on pretty high dose; it's taken hold of me I suppose.
best wishes to you, cf
Posted by corafree on February 18, 2005, at 16:03:00
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by dancingstar on February 18, 2005, at 14:35:45
The way you describe sadness; believe it correlates w/ situational/atypical depression.
I may have had situational/atypical depression when I was young, but I took strong anti-depressants.
I wish they would categorize ADs.
A person w/ situational/atypical depression is sad, cries, or grieves for a situation in their life, that may be fleeting, and not necessarily a situation in their brain.
Maybe if society were a bit more patient and loving.
I know times I've taken stronger ADs or benzos or sleeping aids, so as 'not to lose my job when overwhelmed w/ sadness'!
Think? cf
Posted by dancingstar on February 18, 2005, at 16:11:42
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » dancingstar, posted by corafree on February 18, 2005, at 16:03:00
cf,
Personally, I do not believe that it is a "problem," with "symptoms" or "a diagnosis."
I believe that this is and always has been a part of being alive. There are tears and laughter in every life. It is very recent to treat these tears as if they were a problem, though I'm not opposed to finding cures for things.
If the "cures" are likely to cause ill health or lead to an earlier than normal death for having taken something that proves to be poisonous to our bodies, though, I think it's a bad idea to pursue them no matter who tells us that they are terrific.
As with body parts, though, we each have an opinion, and that happens to be mine.
Posted by dancingstar on February 18, 2005, at 16:33:56
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by elka on February 18, 2005, at 12:46:01
I had a thought...just because you are open to alternative ideas...and this is the post that will get this thread moved ;-)
Yesterday I went to a wonderful Russian masseuse who was trained by Tibetian monks as well as Chinese medicine folks. I went to see her to help me with the residual nerve damage in my neck due to the problems that I've had since my withdrawal from Effexor. There are times that my neck and upper back are still in extreme pain.
She suggested that I go to an area in town that is mostly Chinese and go into a local, neighborhood drug store where there is usually a Chinese physician available to see patients; that they would be able to examine me and prescribe the appropriate herbs to put my body into perfect condition within a few weeks' time.
I'm wondering if this sort of thing could be useful for you to try...since you say that you are somewhat sensitive to medications. Chinese herbs and teas and the like may take a few weeks to work, but I've heard that they can be very helpful if you haven't already tried this.
I am also wondering if you have considered bioidentical hormones. You didn't mention your age, but sometimes that can really make a big difference in turning the proverbial light back on. I know that my internist is kind of on standby, waiting for me to need them...but so far I haven't. Not all that many doctors prescribe them, though it seems that more do these days than did even a few years ago. Often you need to have them prescribed by an endocrinologist, and they need to be purchased at a compounding pharmacy.
Along my journey to find things that helped me through the withdrawal from Effexor - and I can't really post this on that board cause I don't know the name of it -- I tried drinking this Chinese tea that someone had given me. He said that he was given it by his doctor and drank it every day just to maintain his health. I did notice that tea made a difference in how I felt during a time that I was sick beyond belief, but it is hard to judge things when you are feeling so badly.
I know that I am going to take a wee drive someday soon and see if I can't have some preparation personally designed for me as I do think it can be very helpful for whatever ails us with far fewer risks to our bodies.
-Bebe
Posted by Jen2 on February 18, 2005, at 22:43:10
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by elka on February 18, 2005, at 11:40:17
> thank you so much guys for responding!!!
> jen2, are you still on effexor or did you quit after 1week? i just had another episode of severe palpitations coming from nowhere ( and i'm still on 37.5mg!) can't even think about what to expect if the dose will be increased?Hi Elka,
I'm still on effexor. Still at 75mg after, what, five weeks now I suppose. I'm starting to feel really crappy, however. My motivation is severely lacking (and I'm a grad student, so it isn't good) I can't get out of bed in the morning. I don't have other side effects, so that's good, but I'm starting to feel sad more often than at first. It's really taken care of my anxiety (perhaps more than is useful) but the depression seems to persist more than I'd hoped. My pdoc said that I can expect more benefits with more time, but I'm becoming increasingly skeptical.
I know what you mean when you say that you've tried everything else and just had to resort to meds to dig you out of that black hole. When I fell into my own black hole, no amount of exercise could do it for me. I really resisted taking the medication - I took a few weeks off, tried to rest and relax and make myself well, but in the end I was just spiralling out of control. I had had my prescription filled but it was about six weeks before I actually started taking the meds.
Since then, however, I have been going to the gym at least three times a week, trying to eat better, trying to not push myself so hard and working with the therapist on things like the negative self-thoughts and taking more control over my life. So I think that, when I do finally come off the medication, I will have a better orientation towards life that will be healthier, and I agree that that kind of approach to life is a much better way to go than medication. But for now, the medication is letting me be able to cope better than I would have otherwise. It has its own problems (some of which may be severe) but for me, it's working for now. I know that others have had better and worse experiences, and I honour them. Just wanted to add my two cents.
Jen
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 19, 2005, at 15:38:19
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » corafree, posted by dancingstar on February 18, 2005, at 16:11:42
> Personally, I do not believe that it is a "problem," with "symptoms" or "a diagnosis."
You're free to believe that, but when posting here, please respect the views of others and be sensitive to their feelings. Your last block was for 2 weeks, so this one's for 4.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Minnie-Haha on February 19, 2005, at 19:25:58
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by elka on February 18, 2005, at 12:46:01
Elka,
Please, please take anything "dancingstar" says with a grain of salt. She's had a bad experience with Effexor and is on a campaign to make the manufacturer pay for it. Yes, there are people who have bad experiences on drugs, and upon withdrawing from drugs. However, in her case there are two things to consider. #1. Her reason for taking Effexor originally was not for depression, but for an "off-label" use... I think back pain or fibromyalgia or something (for some it helps with pain). #2. She quit taking Effexor abruptly, which is not recommended unless there's a life-or-death reason (like a severe allergic reaction).
Here's my advice to you: If you've been trying for years to manage your depression, but without relief, then there is no shame in seeking an answer through a pdoc (psychiatrist) and RX drugs; just get informed on any drug you consider. One of my favorite sites is www.healthsquare.com, but others here could share theirs, too. Also, understand that starting up on a new med CAN (doesn't have to, but can) be as challenging as living with your depression in the first place! You can often expect 2-6 weeks for your depression and side effects to relent. You might expect to have to try several drugs before you find the one (or combination) that works for you. Just work closely with your doctor(s), know which side effects you should *not* try to ride out, and have support in place to help you through (family, friends, or even people on message boards, like here). You don’t have to live with depression, but meds won’t be without their drawbacks, either. However, most people can manage their side effects way better than debilitating depression!
Good luck.
Minnie
Posted by not2late4u on February 20, 2005, at 1:35:00
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by Minnie-Haha on February 19, 2005, at 19:25:58
Minnie-haha and Elka, I wasnt going to post here anylonger but I forgot my password and keep getting posts sent to my emails and I had to post after reading what I did. Minnie-haha, I agree totally with your post and thank you for saying it. There are PLENTY of success stories for PLENTY of drugs out there. And there are those unfortunate times when people have a bad reaction to or are prescribed the wrong medication and/or for the wrong reason. In reality, LAWSUIT = $$. I know, Im in the insurance business, not to say that some arent warrented, but I have to say that I have to wonder how many are actually legitimate. Did I have side effects? Yes. Am I still having some of those "brain zaps" after being off effexor now for 30+ days? Yes, but I am NOT joining in on the lawsuit, why? Because I know it works for others and I also know that the side effects were published and available in at least 1995 from a medical book I read. Still I have to wonder if why the prescribers (md's etc) arent being blamed, seems that they are falling short in providing all information to the patient. Minnie-haha, there's a bigger picture here and glad you see it.
Posted by corafree on February 20, 2005, at 16:11:20
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » corafree, posted by dancingstar on February 18, 2005, at 16:11:42
Dancingstar
I'm sorry. Please allow me to share.
I did feel put down by how you posted. Then, and this not being the first time, I ask myself, am I not smart enough and should I post at all?
I was trying to be agreeable, and am sorry if my wording was not perfect.
I was having a tough time; trying to crawl out of a black hole.
cf
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 21, 2005, at 8:55:34
In reply to Re: blocked for 4 weeks » dancingstar, posted by Dr. Bob on February 19, 2005, at 15:38:19
> Your last block was for 2 weeks, so this one's for 4.
When people are blocked, they're not supposed to post, so I've deleted her later posts -- and those in response to hers, sorry about that, but I think it makes more sense for the thread.
Bob
Posted by corafree on February 21, 2005, at 9:42:07
In reply to Re: deleted posts, posted by Dr. Bob on February 21, 2005, at 8:55:34
Okay.
Onward ho OLs! I wonder, is that correct for ... o n l i n e r s ... ? ... as opposed to IRLs ... i n r e a l l i f e r s ...?
Think I am stable here @ 150mg Effexor-XR a day, but need to get out of the house for true test; been in here way too long, best wishes cf
Posted by Nesser on February 21, 2005, at 19:47:53
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? YES! , posted by Hazel on August 2, 2000, at 10:22:12
> I'm about to start on this drug and its reassuring
> to read about it working for so many people.
>
> I have been suffering from depression for a few
> years and so far nothing has worked so I am hoping
> this will. I cannot wait until I feel "normal"
> again.
>
> Any tips or anything I should know before starting?
> More importantly, are you allowed to drink alcohol
> on these tablets?
>
>This is my first week of taking Effexor, I was started off on 37.5. This is the first time I have taken meds for depression though I have suffered with it for many years. I'm glad to read that some people have had good experiences, but the withdrawals I've been reading about have scared me. I didn't realize I would have to be taking this ad for a long period of a time. Can someone please explain to me their side effects. I feel nauseated mostly. The doctor told me to take it at night, is anyone else doing this? Why would he tell me to take this at night? Finally, can alcohol be consumed while on effexor?
Posted by Phillipa on February 21, 2005, at 20:07:49
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? YES!, posted by Nesser on February 21, 2005, at 19:47:53
I have heard that drinking alchol will cause the medication to not work as potently as it could. This would apply to all the SSRI's and other AD's as well. I'm not a doctor though. Fondly, phillipa
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.