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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by dancingstar on January 23, 2005, at 14:25:44
In reply to Re: MAYBE WE SHOULD RETHINK THE BENADRYL GUYS!!! » dancingstar, posted by corafree on January 23, 2005, at 13:38:16
my little outburst wasn't directed toward you, cf, it was toward the cosmos in general...my frustration at the helplessness i sometimes feel at being able to really make a difference and really my disappointment in the medical community for not taking some kind of action and instead just going on ahead and prescribing these drugs without being more vocal about the problems so that so many people over the years could have been spared so much pain.
They have known all along that this drug was not right for the types of things it is being prescribed for and ignored the situation. I'm really surprised.
Posted by ccb on January 23, 2005, at 15:11:22
In reply to Re: STOPPING Effexor made easy - alternatives, posted by kgirl on June 3, 2004, at 13:40:41
When I finally got off effexor, I felt angry and/or depressed for a couple of weeks to a month. It did go away for me. Just keep the faith.
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 23, 2005, at 16:14:27
In reply to Re: please be civil » Dr. Bob, posted by not2late4u on January 23, 2005, at 1:21:13
Posted by Jen2 on January 23, 2005, at 19:25:43
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by Bug on January 19, 2005, at 21:41:20
Hi all,
Thought I'd add my two cents. I just posted the same stuff to the newbies group, so it'll be a duplicate if you read it there first.
I've been reading psycho-babble and the newbies group for the past week after I started taking Effexor, and these boards have been a great help to me. Thanks for the insight and advice and facts - they sure helped during a bad time. I've decided to post for the first time to let you know some of my story and maybe hear back from you.
Two years ago I moved to a very large new city - halfway across the country, where I knew exactly one person (aside from my partner with whom I moved - and with whom I have a difficult relationship). I had 4 months of misery, then worked for a while (which was also miserable - almost intolerable) and then returned to school to do a masters degree. And that's been kind of miserable too.
In November I had a bit of a, you might say, nervous breakdown. I was suffering from school /performance anxiety and intense pressures from relationships (too much and too difficult to go into now), although I think the fact that I'm a workaholic and that I've been working for the past 10 years in extraordinarily stressful jobs (in politics) didn't help matters. It was the worst three weeks of my life. I was extraordinarily anxious, paranoid, incredibly depressed, not quite delusional but almost, heart palpitations constantly the whole time. It was like something snapped in my brain that then affected my whole system. I felt like I was going to die.
I went to my doctor, who initially prescribed Lorazepam. It made me feel dead inside so she prescribed Effexor instead, but I was afraid of taking an antidepressant so decided I would just coast through Christmas and see how I felt afterwards. Well, Christmas was depressing, I felt a bit better but not great, and then after returning to school for two weeks I thought again that I was going to die. So I started taking the meds. I had to do something.
Well, here's where it gets interesting. The first couple of days were fine - I didn't feel anything at all. Days three through five, however, were a living nightmare. Nervous, anxious, sweaty, horribly depressed, couldn't focus my eyes (which also happened throughout my anxiety), felt disconnected from myself, crying jags, horrible horrible horrible. Spent three days on the couch watching bad TV and could barely cope with that. Days six and seven were tolerable, but day eight was a return to the pit of despair and physical terror. So I had a week of hell - I was white knuckling it through my days.
Day nine was OK, but on day ten the clouds parted and the sun came out. I'm on day twelve now, and I'm feeling more content and able to cope than I have in months if not years. (I am, however, feeling no anxiety at all, which isn't good because I have very little motivation to get my work done. But right now, it's better than the anxiety and depression so I'm not going to sweat it for a while.)
The nasty part of this is that, while the doctor prescribed the starter 37.5mg dose - which I thought I was taking - the pharmacist actually dispensed the 75mg dose. I didn't figure that out until day ten - who would think, especially in the depths of despair, to examine your pills to ensure the pharmacist gave you the right dosage? Not me. So I have been taking double the dose that I should have. No wonder I felt like I was going to die. I thought it was just my anxiety and depression, but it was actually the meds. I'm so angry about this. I couldn't cope for an entire week - I lost a week out of school and out of my life and it's the damn pharmacist's fault.
So not only am I angry about having been prescribed a drug that, I now find out thanks to all of you on these boards, has such serious side effects and the potential for horrible withdrawal, I'm also angry that my pharmacist screwed up and made my already hellish life more hellish for a week.
So thanks for letting me get this off my chest. I hope that I will continue to do well, although I know now to take my good days when I find them. I'm also getting psychotherapy and that's helping a bit. And I know enough now to start planning to manage the withdrawal when the time comes.
Best to all,
Jen
Posted by dancingstar on January 23, 2005, at 19:34:25
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by Jen2 on January 23, 2005, at 19:25:43
Good luck with everything Jen. You were smart enough to do your research up front, when you felt bad at the outset. You'll be okay! Hang in there.
Bebe
Posted by eeyorena on January 23, 2005, at 19:50:37
In reply to MAYBE WE SHOULD RETHINK THE BENADRYL GUYS!!!, posted by dancingstar on January 23, 2005, at 13:16:18
That's very interesting. My doc has me on Allegra because I take an MAOI now...because I'm not allowed to take Benadryl on an MAOI (related to blood pressure somehow.)
Hmmm.
Posted by corafree on January 23, 2005, at 20:05:40
In reply to Re: MAYBE WE SHOULD RETHINK THE BENADRYL GUYS!!! » corafree, posted by dancingstar on January 23, 2005, at 14:25:44
No offense taken.
But, I was thinking ... here I am taking a drug and don't even know what it is doing inside my brain.
Ya' see, I've been in train wreck after train wreck. I've been on tricyclics and SSRIs, and they didn't work. So, along comes, what I now definitely know is an SNRI, Effexor-XR.
You get to a point where nothing has worked, you're losing your life, friends, husbands, whatever, and pray that somebody out there has developed something that will help; you count on 'them' to lessen the emotional pain which you can't tolerate anymore, and you just take it (the pill they hand you), like all the others before it, hoping it will be the one.
And, I believe borderlines tend to think badly of themselves to begin with, so may be even less likely to self-advocate. Dialectical behavioral therapy teaches life skills to people who have never known them (skills), and to people like me, who knew them and somewhere along the way, lost them.
I do appreciate hearing the bad and good because that means someone cares.
Maybe someday there will be an AD w/o side effects and fearful withdrawals, but prob' not during my time on this earth.
I'm just trying to keep my feet on the ground as long as I can, my life so altered from what it once was, in the depths of agoraphobia today ... yuch; but, maybe tomorrow will be better. cf
Posted by dancingstar on January 23, 2005, at 20:29:35
In reply to MAYBE WE SHOULD RETHINK THE BENADRYL GUYS!!!, posted by dancingstar on January 23, 2005, at 13:16:18
Could it be that we might consider the concept that generally speaking we are downright safer and perhaps even healthier, ultimately, for the most part, with a drug free existence?
The tenor of those posts seemed somewhat dismissive in the way many of the doctors prescribed drugs to patients and in some cases struck me as less than thoughtful, cautious, considerate, and prudent, and wise. I know, I know. My expectations are way too high. I was hoping that it would seem as though they actually cared about their patients, though clearly and by sharp contrast, some did. (stepping off the soapbox.)
How can anyone be sure what to do or take anymore?
Posted by corafree on January 23, 2005, at 21:12:31
In reply to Re: MAYBE WE SHOULD RETHINK THE BENADRYL GUYS!!! » dancingstar, posted by dancingstar on January 23, 2005, at 20:29:35
In prior post I said, like to hear good and bad because it means someone cares.
I wanted to add that there are many people in the mental health system that are confused, hungry for good life, and there do need to be more people that truly care about these people, like Dancingstar, care about their brains. So, maybe the ADs aren't the answer. But, I don't think generally there is much empathy in docs, drug companies, etc.; believe overall they're looking for the quick fix, just like some consumers. A drug-free existence, like a pill that worked and didn't harm you, both will come someday, as long as people talk about it, fight about it, start a scuffle over it. Dancingstar, you are helping people who maybe cannot help themselves; knowledge is what you are trying to share, as I see it. I'm emotionally ill, but you haven't scared me ... you've enlightened me. I'm not scared to stop Eff-XR, just don't wish to currently. Nine months on it; no catastrophies; had ideation, but not acted on. Before spending time w/ all of you and going to DBT, I acted on ideation. Glad I found Dr. Bob, glad you've put up w/ me in bad, oh and 'think good?' times; so many of you have supported me when I've felt weak/confused, w/ correct or incorrect responses, and it's all good; no right or wrong. may I say thank you, lovingly, cf
Posted by not2late4u on January 24, 2005, at 0:43:01
In reply to Re: STOPPING Effexor made easy - alternatives, posted by ccb on January 23, 2005, at 15:11:22
ccb, thats great to know, thanks for sharing.
Posted by FaithT on January 24, 2005, at 4:19:29
In reply to Re: STOPPING Effexor made easy - alternatives, posted by not2late4u on January 24, 2005, at 0:43:01
Hello everyone~
I would like to start a NEW thread below, since this one is getting old. I'm concerned that someone in a true state of clinical depression, may decide not to take Effexor based on what they have read under this thread. The original title of THIS thread was "Anyone Had Success On Effexor XR?" I pray that a real tradgedy does not occur, because someone in a weakened state of mind, follows the advice of a poster here, and not a medical professional. Possibly someone may have been looking for some hope, by making that original post.
I kindly ask that the subject line of this new thread be replied to, by POSITIVE experiences, because they ARE out there. I think there are enough negative ones already for people to read if they choose,and I respect that. So, PLEASE respect what I am asking.
Sincerely, Faith~
Posted by Larry Hoover on January 24, 2005, at 5:56:30
In reply to Re: MAYBE WE SHOULD RETHINK THE BENADRYL GUYS!!! » dancingstar, posted by corafree on January 23, 2005, at 13:38:16
> Tks DS...got that...what a giant link!!!
>
> So, seems maybe Allegra preferred over Benadryl in second post.That's not what this article is saying at all.
Some SSRIs inhibit the 3A4 liver enzyme. That can cause an induced (unnatural) toxicity of the listed antihistamines (in the first post on that page).
Diphenydramine (Benadryl), chlorpheniramine (Chlortripilon?) and loratidine (Claritin) do not require the function of 3A4 to be cleared from the system, and are safe to use with antidepressants. Diphenhydramine has anticholinergic activity, which may be why it is especially useful during withdrawals.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on January 24, 2005, at 5:58:11
In reply to Re: MAYBE WE SHOULD RETHINK THE BENADRYL GUYS!!!, posted by eeyorena on January 23, 2005, at 19:50:37
> That's very interesting. My doc has me on Allegra because I take an MAOI now...because I'm not allowed to take Benadryl on an MAOI (related to blood pressure somehow.)
>
> Hmmm.Benadryl is a substrate (is broken down by) MAO, the enzyme monoamine oxidase. If you on an MAO inhibitor, it doesn't break down, and you get overdose-like effects.
Lar
Posted by dancingstar on January 24, 2005, at 10:39:02
In reply to Re: MAYBE WE SHOULD RETHINK THE BENADRYL GUYS!!! » eeyorena, posted by Larry Hoover on January 24, 2005, at 5:58:11
YEP. :-). I didn't understand the full ramifacations or, frankly, the lack there of, but I knew enough to let you guys know when I saw it so that we can try to get some better answers before anyone gets hurt.
Posted by dancingstar on January 24, 2005, at 10:54:15
In reply to Re: MAYBE WE SHOULD RETHINK THE BENADRYL GUYS!!! » eeyorena, posted by Larry Hoover on January 24, 2005, at 5:58:11
Lar,
For purposes of withdrawal, does it appear to be safer if people use either the antihistamine without the SSRI or the SSRI without the antihistamine, or does adding the antihistmine into the mix automatically create a problem, do you think, if they have been previously taking a SSRI or an SNRI...or don't you have a clue or not want to say, also, I'm thinking, a valid answer :-)?
This makes me so mad. When I mentioned that I had been taking Benadryl to get over the E-withdrawl, my poor internist was shocked to hear that it worked, and he hadn't known anything else about it except he was very glad that it helped. He had wanted to give me P, but I wanted no part of the stuff. From what I understand, many if not most are taking a combo of an anithistamine and Prozac at the same time to help them with symptoms, and this could really be a bad idea!~
Bebe
Posted by Larry Hoover on January 24, 2005, at 11:41:08
In reply to Re: MAYBE WE SHOULD RETHINK THE BENADRYL GUYS!!! » Larry Hoover, posted by dancingstar on January 24, 2005, at 10:54:15
> Lar,
>
> For purposes of withdrawal, does it appear to be safer if people use either the antihistamine without the SSRI or the SSRI without the antihistamine, or does adding the antihistmine into the mix automatically create a problem, do you think, if they have been previously taking a SSRI or an SNRI...or don't you have a clue or not want to say, also, I'm thinking, a valid answer :-)?It really depends on which drugs you're considering. See below.
> This makes me so mad. When I mentioned that I had been taking Benadryl to get over the E-withdrawl, my poor internist was shocked to hear that it worked, and he hadn't known anything else about it except he was very glad that it helped. He had wanted to give me P, but I wanted no part of the stuff. From what I understand, many if not most are taking a combo of an anithistamine and Prozac at the same time to help them with symptoms, and this could really be a bad idea!~
>
> BebeYour internist may not have heard of Benadryl as a treatment for withdrawal side-effects because it's very likely been discovered quite by accident.
What I see throughout your post is a shifting back and forth between the general and the specific. There are some combinations of antidepressants and antihistamines that are a problem. Others are safe.
It is not okay to just think "I'll take an antihistamine to counteract the side-effects of withdrawal"....the drug to consider is *one* antihistamine, diphenhydramine (Benadryl). You can't just substitute willy-nilly for Benadryl. Based on the data on the tips page, chlorphenhydramine is a possible alternative to Benadryl. The modern non-sedating antihistamines are not acceptable because they require processing in the liver, and most modern antidepressants inhibit liver function.
Prozac works to help with withdrawal because of its very lengthy half-life. It virtually self-tapers in dose. Prozac and Benadryl together are also safe.
Lar
Posted by corafree on January 24, 2005, at 12:02:19
In reply to RE: NEW THREAD - POSITIVE EFFEXOR EXPERIENCE, posted by FaithT on January 24, 2005, at 4:19:29
Yep, Eff-XR is the first AD that has really helped me. I am emotional; sensitive. My prob' = reacting w/ brutal honesty, or separation anxiety.
Anyway, those tendencies have been less on Eff-XR. I take 150mg am and 75mg late afternoon as am a fast metabolizer and use up med very quickly, and haven't much fat on body, so don't store up things well.
My level of anxiety and depression is much better. I wonder sometimes if my dx actually should have been anxiety disorder to begin w/; first became depressed about being so anxious!
Of course, now, 20yrs later, every other AD tried, I am borderline; feel damaged by all those AD trials.
I really have to be aware of regimen; not miss a dose tho', as if do, become anxious, worry, feel inept, and agoraphobic.
In future, would love being drug free again; if opportunity seems plausible (knowing my own limitations); for now am hanging on better than in past. cf
Posted by medhed on January 24, 2005, at 12:20:22
In reply to RE: NEW THREAD - POSITIVE EFFEXOR EXPERIENCE, posted by FaithT on January 24, 2005, at 4:19:29
nope, not positive. i didn't need this board to know i felt poisoned. i do know people who swear by it though, i guess as long as you keep taking it you won't have a problem. some people are good candidates for this drug and that was why i tryed it. it was worth trying, that's why i took it for 8mos...people are different, i just wish my doc knew that. ("you can't be having that side effect, it isn't in the insert!") says she.
Posted by FaithT on January 24, 2005, at 12:56:50
In reply to RE: NEW THREAD - POSITIVE EFFEXOR EXPERIENCE, posted by FaithT on January 24, 2005, at 4:19:29
Thanks everyone~
If you have something postive to say about Effexor, please post it there. I have nothing to gain by doing this, except to try and give another view of this drug, to others that may need some hope.
Cora, I appreciate your post. Thank you.
Best wishes, Faith~
Posted by dancingstar on January 24, 2005, at 13:33:41
In reply to Re: MAYBE WE SHOULD RETHINK THE BENADRYL GUYS!!! » dancingstar, posted by Larry Hoover on January 24, 2005, at 11:41:08
Hey Lar,
Thank you very much for explaining in plain English that it is safe to take the combination of Prozac and Benadryl.
Many people here are taking that combo. Because I don't know the chemical ingredient of the drug, may I ask you if it is also safe to take Prozac with Claritin D, which is also popular on this site?
Thanks again. It is so hard to get straight information, and I really appreciate your help
:-)!
Posted by jubilee on January 24, 2005, at 14:11:19
In reply to Re: MAYBE WE SHOULD RETHINK THE BENADRYL GUYS!!! » dancingstar, posted by Larry Hoover on January 24, 2005, at 11:41:08
5 months ago or more when I first came to this board a dr like person, very sientific, talked about how the withdrawal has a major effect on your hystamines( excuse poor spelling ) levels and many mentioned how their whole bodies iched so I assume thats why the benadryl was brought up.
Well, i came down slow , 5 mths and off of effexor completly for a couple weeks and my nose iches so bad, I cant imagine the whole body, but I discovered that my nose spray would take away the headaches I was getting from the w/d and I now using it on my nose which stops the iching. .
I have been so frustrated with the length of time it takes to get this drug out of your system . Personally the worst part for me has been the angry outbursts and I am still dealing with . a friend came over and prayed for me I have been doing better about the anger and have been able to want to go to bed for 4 nights now. I personally don't know how far out I would go with my anger if I didnt have some xanex.
I had every side affect from effexor but the high blood pressure. I have fought going to bed and to sleep for 4 years now, so for me to say I have wanted and been going to bed early is a miricle. I have had hypermania , agitation and anxiety since I ws first put on effexor . I have destroyed my vision from taking it and I have been having memory problems this last year . I so pray I completely recover from taking this drug and that I dont find I have a major liver problem for it or something . I wonder how many more weeks until I go back to the self controlled person I was 4 years ago. and hoping soon to be able to go off the xanex.
Posted by corafree on January 24, 2005, at 16:10:38
In reply to My ichy nose is driving me nuts, posted by jubilee on January 24, 2005, at 14:11:19
Jubilee - Memory impairment from Effexor-XR ... I have memory impairment, but cannot be sure from Eff-XR, as also benzos can cause it, as well as trazodone which take for sleep, as well as many years on diff' ADs, and also having my head beaten on the floor in 2000. I currently am feeling like I may have ADD or ADHD. I took the test, said 89% chance had it. But, do I want another pill? I am really, really alone and often go w/o contact w/ another person for 3-4 days. I don't dare change anything until I am in a supportive environment. Hope AD studies re: memory/Alzheimer's come to light soon. cf
Posted by eeyorena on January 24, 2005, at 16:27:06
In reply to Re: Benadryl is safe! » corafree, posted by Larry Hoover on January 24, 2005, at 5:56:30
If you take the AD, Parnate, pure Benadryl should be safe according to the Drug Interaction Checker.
The following OTC drugs should NOT be taken with Parnate or they can cause reactions of MAJOR severity.
-Any Benadryl Allergy products (Allergy & Sinus, Benadryl Allergy & Cold, Benadryl Allergy Sinus Headache)
-Claritan-D or Claritan-D 24 hour
-Chlor-Trimeton Allergy Decongestant and Chlor-Trimeton Nasal DecongestantThese over the counter drugs should NOT be combined with the anti-depressant, Parnate.
Posted by eeyorena on January 24, 2005, at 16:30:13
In reply to RE: NEW THREAD - POSITIVE EFFEXOR EXPERIENCE » FaithT, posted by corafree on January 24, 2005, at 12:02:19
cf--
Did your doc ever have you on an MAOI? Just curious.
E-
Posted by dancingstar on January 24, 2005, at 16:44:45
In reply to RE: NEW THREAD IS AT BOTTOM OF THIS PAGE, posted by FaithT on January 24, 2005, at 12:56:50
If someone checks in on a site to see if anyone has had success on Effexor and they see that a lot of people are having problems as a result of having taken it, I think that tells them that they might want to be cautious before they begin to take the drug.
The problem seems to be that the doctors have been telling patients that Effexor is safe. It is widely prescribed. People need a place to find out the truth. It appears to me that many of us are relieved to find out that there are others that have had similar experiences to our own, and that it didn't turn out that Effexor was as safe as we were told that it was.
Everyone has been telling people how wonderful the drug is, and it's nice to be able find out that it is a potentially dangerous drug before one takes it, not some time down the line after it's already in one's body.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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