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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Lou Pilder on November 25, 2004, at 8:15:37
In reply to Re: im thinking of killing myself, posted by Jeroen on November 24, 2004, at 14:09:12
Jeroen,
In my reserch of adverse reactions to psychotropic drugs, I remember a good article that may be of some help to you. However, you will have to find it on your own, for I can not always find things.
The article came from "The Australian Prescriber", and was titled, 'The Management of Acute Dystonic Reactions". I remember this article because it addressed whether to take a similar drug to treat disorders like blepharospasm and there was a section called "Avoiding Recurrences".
I remember that there were two situations. One of the long-term use and the other of an initial adverse reaction. Another had to do with age of the person.
See if you can use your computer skills to find this article and I believe that it could be of help to you, but cunsult with your treating psychiatrist.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 25, 2004, at 11:58:12
In reply to im thinking of killing myself, posted by Jeroen on November 24, 2004, at 14:05:53
Jeroen,
Using Google, if you type in "australian provider" then comma, then type in,"The Management of Acute Dystonic Reactions" the article comes up.
There is another article about age and length of time that the drug is used that may be of help to you and I am looking for that.
Lou
Posted by lostforwards on November 25, 2004, at 12:02:38
In reply to im thinking of killing myself, posted by Jeroen on November 24, 2004, at 14:05:53
It could be a lot of things. It could be dystonia.
If you're worried about side-effects taking 1200mg Vitamin E, and maybe be 400 or 500mg B6 for a while wouldn't hurt you. If the blinking goes away, keep taking them.
Taking Zyprexa may "fix" TD or dystonia, or it might just mask it. If you don't have a serious condition ( schizophrenia ) that absolutely requires the AP, you should consider a drug holiday and try other medications to control your illness. If you have to take an AP, Seroquel is probably the safest in terms of side-effects. I even heard people go as far as saying Seroquel doesn't cause TD. You may experience other non-TD,dystonia side-effects from it though.
I've experienced problems like yours, not with eye blinking, and they are very distressing. I think doctors should have a zero-tolerance rule where they stop giving the AP and switch to other medications as soon as even the smallest signs of side-effects appear whenever possible.
This is my personal opinion.
There is evidence to back up the use of B6 and Vitamin E.
----------------------------------------------
You'll find many studies that show Vitamin E is a good treatment for TD.You'll also find a few studies that suggest moderate doeses, 400-500mg, of B6 are good for a variety of side-effects, including TD and dystonia.
One study used doese as high as 1500mg, though I don't suggest you do that.
Regarding side-effects from the B6 and Vitamin E:
With B6 watch for tingling or numbness in your legs and hands. It's a side-effect that occurs sometimes due to temporary nerve "damage" that clears up when you stop taking it.
I read recently that elderly people need to be careful taking high doses of Vitamin E. It may increase their chances of death. The safety limit in the US is 1000mg-1500mg.
I am talking about elderly people and the study was very recent. Vitamin E will probably not harm you.
Earlier studies have suggested that Vitamin E has no effect on mortality rates.
You should start searching for treatments for the side-effects, dystonia and TD, as a lot of the treatments are easily obtainable and relatively safe. Then you can decide for yourself.
The only other treatment besides vitamins, and supplements ( Lecithin in the right doses is good - it's also a supplement, so it's very safe) that I'm aware of is time and withdrawal from the AP.
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 25, 2004, at 12:13:59
In reply to im thinking of killing myself, posted by Jeroen on November 24, 2004, at 14:05:53
Jeroen,
After trying by typing in on Google [...australian prescriber,The management of acute dystonic reactions...], the article comes up in a forighn language. The title is;
Buscador INFOMEDICAMENTO...
Then I clicked on "translate' and the article came up in English.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 25, 2004, at 12:19:12
In reply to im thinking of killing myself, posted by Jeroen on November 24, 2004, at 14:05:53
J,
There is a correction. Using Google,type in,"Australian Prescriber" then comma, the type in "The management of acute dystonic reactions".
I originally had "provider" instead of "prescriber".
Lou
Posted by Jeroen on November 25, 2004, at 13:15:26
In reply to Lou's response to Jeroen-obtaining the article-B » Jeroen, posted by Lou Pilder on November 25, 2004, at 12:13:59
i found this but i dont see any pages, btw my eyes are blinking almost every second while i read this, i think its Tardive diskinesia so this means my life is over
i went to see a neurologist today, he did some tests
http://www.infomedicamento.net/p/SEGURIDAD_DE_MEDICAMENTOS/Reacciones_Adversas/Neurologicas/
Posted by ed_uk on November 25, 2004, at 13:29:49
In reply to Re: Lou's response to Jeroen-obtaining the article-B, posted by Jeroen on November 25, 2004, at 13:15:26
Hello Jeroen,
Your life is not over. You're young, so even if it is TD it will probably improve in time. Anyway, blepharospasm can be treated, your neurologist can tell you more. Botox is one of the treatments for blepharospasm. Here is some information about Botox (botulinum toxin)......
Licensed Indication:
The symptomatic treatment of blepharospasm and hemifacial spasm.
Background Information:
There are over 20,000 known patients with adult onset focal dystonias in the UK. These dystonias are characterised by uncontrolled muscle spasm leading to involuntary movements of the eyes (blepharospasm), face (hemifacial spasm) and other parts of the body. In most cases no cause is apparent and it has been estimated that two thirds of patients have not been treated successfully.
Drug treatment, surgery, hypnosis, biotherapy and physiotherapy have all been used to manage blepharospasm with variable success. In hemifacial spasm surgery is successful in more than 90% of patients but is obviously associated with certain risks.
Clinical Efficacy:
Botulinum toxin has been used investigationally for many years for a variety of neurological disorders associated with inappropriate muscle contractions or spasms. Trials have generally been uncontrolled and conducted in a small number of patients.
In the treatment of blepharospasm botulinum toxin injected subcutaneously into the obicularis oculi muscle around each eye is associated with improvement in 70-80% of patients. In 30% of these patients the condition is resolved completely, in the remainder a return of useful vision, without complete abolishment of the blepharospasm occurs.
In the treatment of hemifacial spasm, botulinum toxin is again injected into the obicularis oculi muscle and any other affected facial muscles. Careful and precise siting of the injectioin is likely to be important. Temporary relief is seen in over 90% of patients although some patients remain troubled by an almost invisible residual spasm.
Long term efficacy over 7 years in both these conditions has been demonstrated.
Adverse Effects
Following injection most patients report local swelling and bruising around the injection site. Mild ptosis is seen in about 50% of patients and lasts 2-3 weeks, lacrimation and irritration are also common. Complete failure of eye closure can occur and pending recover may require protective measures.
Overdose can result in generalised weakness. General supportive care is advised with respiratory support if necessary. The antitoxin is not a reliable antidote.
Health Economics
No useful economic data on the treatment of focal dystonias with botulinum toxin is apparent in the literature. Quality of life issues have also not been addressed.
Conclusions
Botulinum toxin is effective in the treatment of both blepharospasm and hemifacial spasm. Administration should be performed by those with a thorough knowledge of the anatomy and pathophysiology of the condition being treated, with experience of selecting and administering the appropriate dose and managing potential adverse effects. It is not therefore suitable for general prescribing in general practice.
Regards,
Ed.
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 25, 2004, at 13:55:02
In reply to Re: Lou's response to Jeroen-obtaining the article-B, posted by Jeroen on November 25, 2004, at 13:15:26
> i found this but i dont see any pages, btw my eyes are blinking almost every second while i read this, i think its Tardive diskinesia so this means my life is over
>
> i went to see a neurologist today, he did some tests
>
> http://www.infomedicamento.net/p/SEGURIDAD_DE_MEDICAMENTOS/Reacciones_Adversas/Neurologicas/Jeoen,
The article is found by clicking on:
"The Australian Prescriber Vol. 24 November,1 2001"
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 25, 2004, at 14:34:26
In reply to im thinking of killing myself, posted by Jeroen on November 24, 2004, at 14:05:53
Jeroen,
Below is a link to the article. Sorry for the complications, for I have had difficulties with my computer system.
Lou
http://www.australianprescriber.com/index.php?context=/magazines/vol24no1/acute_dystonic.htm
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 25, 2004, at 14:45:01
In reply to Re: Lou's response to Jeroen-obtaining the article-B, posted by Jeroen on November 25, 2004, at 13:15:26
> i found this but i dont see any pages, btw my eyes are blinking almost every second while i read this, i think its Tardive diskinesia so this means my life is over
>
> i went to see a neurologist today, he did some tests
>
> http://www.infomedicamento.net/p/SEGURIDAD_DE_MEDICAMENTOS/Reacciones_Adversas/Neurologicas/Jeroen,
Sorry for the link not being there. I am having trouble with my system.
If you click on your link in this post, then scroll down to "The australian prescriber Vol 24 November 1 2001", the article is shown.
Best regards,
Lou
Posted by Sebastian on November 25, 2004, at 20:46:14
In reply to im thinking of killing myself, posted by Jeroen on November 24, 2004, at 14:05:53
I think it will work. I had TD once and it went away when I stoped the med. It becomes controlable, but I still find myself wanting to every now and then, so I try to stop myself. Zyprexa in time will take your mind away from the horible thoughts. Stick with it and you probably won't remember it in a year, or less.
Eye blinking is a very normal thing. Everyone does it, for most it can be subconcious, right now you are focused on it. try not to think about doing, and notice other peoples eye blinking, and how noraml it is.
Posted by paulbwell on November 25, 2004, at 23:00:56
In reply to Re: im thinking of WHY!, posted by Sebastian on November 25, 2004, at 20:46:14
> I think it will work. I had TD once and it went away when I stoped the med. It becomes controlable, but I still find myself wanting to every now and then, so I try to stop myself. Zyprexa in time will take your mind away from the horible thoughts. Stick with it and you probably won't remember it in a year, or less.
>
> Eye blinking is a very normal thing. Everyone does it, for most it can be subconcious, right now you are focused on it. try not to think about doing, and notice other peoples eye blinking, and how noraml it is.You dudes ever seen 'Buzz' Aldrin talkin- the dude never blinks, I watched doco's on the Moon landin conspiricy theorys, and every interview with him -he never blinked!. He did take Ritalin for a while (for sever depression) after his luner missions so...
I have taken Ritalin b4 up to 80-90mgs aday, and it 'can' give someone an overly calm, eye stearing look.-weird.Cheers
Posted by Jeroen on November 26, 2004, at 4:36:57
In reply to Re: im thinking of WHY!, posted by paulbwell on November 25, 2004, at 23:00:56
the blinking is so worse for me that my eyes are irritated
Posted by Sebastian on November 26, 2004, at 13:22:20
In reply to Re: im thinking of WHY!, posted by Jeroen on November 26, 2004, at 4:36:57
Can you take eye drops, visine? Try taking more zyprexa for a day in the day. How long was it that you stoped geodon? It may take a week to get it all out of your system.
Posted by Sebastian on November 26, 2004, at 13:24:44
In reply to Re: im thinking of WHY!, posted by paulbwell on November 25, 2004, at 23:00:56
zyprexa can do the same! More and longer you take it. 3 years straight of it and I look like a zombe, no facial expersion.
Posted by Jeroen on November 26, 2004, at 13:39:16
In reply to Re: im thinking of WHY! » paulbwell, posted by Sebastian on November 26, 2004, at 13:24:44
i only took for a month and im 3 months of it and my eyes are blinking every second, my eyes feel irritated, i think i have tardive dyskinesia so that means my stupid life is over
Posted by ed_uk on November 26, 2004, at 13:47:49
In reply to Re: im thinking of WHY!, posted by Jeroen on November 26, 2004, at 13:39:16
Hello Jeroen.
Things will improve in time, your life will get better. It is not over.
You need to talk to your neurologist about treatment. Did you read the information that I posted? If you are suffering from blepharospasm your neurologist might be able to treat you with Botox. You need to realise that treatment is available.
PS. Why were you taking the antipsychotic?
Best Wishes,
Ed.PS. Don't give up hope. Keep posting to tell us how you're doing. While you are waiting to see your neurologist you could buy some eye drops from a pharmacy to relieve the irritation.
Posted by Jeroen on November 26, 2004, at 14:38:22
In reply to Re: Jeroen, posted by ed_uk on November 26, 2004, at 13:47:49
this is my story: from my 14 year old age everything was fine, i had lot of friends, i went out and made fun, then one day i became social withdrawn with no reason, its like i felt in my head at that time something was going wrong when i became social withdrawn, i felt bad,
now im 20 and i still feel different, theres a problem following me for 6 years, i dont hear voices, i have paranoia and when i walk trough a corridor,i tryed RISPERDAL (no effect and i was a zombie)ZYPREXA 5 mg (eating all the time), ABILIFY (15 MG) nightmare rolling eyes and blinking!!! GEODON 20 and 40 mg (might have destroyed my life with the dystonia or tardive diskinesia, i only took this for 1 month) i ordered it at www.usadrug.net because GEODON is not available in belgium yet
im currently taking zyprexa 10 mg but i dont think its enough, im going to take amantadine with it ive read on this board that it blocks weight gain better then nizatidine, but currently with this dystonia or TD i can react bad on it, who knows!! i tryed AKINETON it made things worse, my eyes more irritated increased blinking
i prayed to god if he would help me with my eyes
Posted by ed_uk on November 26, 2004, at 15:25:01
In reply to Re: Jeroen, posted by Jeroen on November 26, 2004, at 14:38:22
Hello Jeroen it's Ed,
Do you see a psychiatrist? When you mentioned buying the Geodon online I wondered whether you bought the other antipsychotics as well or whether they were prescribed by your doctor.
You said you suffer from paranoia and are socially withdrawn. Do you have a diagnosis? Could you describe your symptoms in a little more detail?
The problem with Zyprexa is that it can actually cause tardive dyskinesia in rare cases. You need to discuss with your doctor whether it is necessary for you to continue the Zyprexa.
In England, clozapine (Clozaril) is sometimes used to treat tardive dyskinesia in people who require continued antipsychotic treatment. Quetiapine (Seroquel) is sometimes used as an alternative. On the other hand, if antipsychotic medication is no longer needed, the best way to ensure improvement in tardive dyskinesia might be to stop all antipsychotic medication. If what you are experiencing is blepharospasm, several treatments are available as I mentioned earlier. Your neurologist can tell you more.
I'm not surprised that Akineton aggravated your symptoms. Akineton is mainly used to treat acute extrapyramidal side effects. It is rarely effective for tardive dyskinesia.
I honestly believe that your symptoms will improve in time. If spontaneous improvement does not occur, your neurologist should be able to help you. If you look up blepharospasm on Google you can read about the treatments which are available.
Best Wishes,
Ed.PS. Geodon isn't available in England either.
Posted by Jeroen on November 26, 2004, at 16:49:27
In reply to Re: A message for Jeroen » Jeroen, posted by ed_uk on November 26, 2004, at 15:25:01
am i suffering from tardive dyskinesia?
i feel my life is over... thats one heck of a nice gift of god for my 21th birthday
i already lost a good friend because of this problem
Posted by DynaUnity333 on November 26, 2004, at 19:25:09
In reply to Re: A message for Jeroen, posted by Jeroen on November 26, 2004, at 16:49:27
Jeroen,
i now its hard right now but you have to stop the thinking about your life being over.
Right now your life is different than it was six months ago, and from your perception not in a way that is better but in a way that is infact worse.
However just imagine how your life could be in another six months time. It could be better than you have ever known it,
The point is, the medication you believe did this to you (if it was the Geodon) is not currently being taken by you, so that can only be a positive thing.
It must be very scary for you right now because its new and unexpected, but listen to those who are offering their advice, try to answer the questions being asked of you, and try to stop imagining the worse.
Speak to your doctor, explain how bad you feel about it and get referred to wherever it takes to get an opinion and treatment you are happy with. Plus take the vitamins suggested. Sometimes people dismiss vitamins and supplements because no-one has to write an allowance for them on a piece of paper, however they are often just as helpful than anything a doctor can provide.
Posted by ravenstorm on November 26, 2004, at 20:34:02
In reply to Jeroen, posted by DynaUnity333 on November 26, 2004, at 19:25:09
Jeroen--Please stop self medicating. It seems from your posts that you are just ordering meds on line and trying them. It just isn't safe to do that! Especially if you have never been diagnosed. If you have anxiety and social phobia, anti-psychotics aren't the first line of medications to try. If you are not under a psychiatrists care, please make sure you make an appointment to see one. Have you told the neurologist you went to that you tried Geodon or were you afraid to tell him/her because you ordered it on line?? He/she needs to know that in order to treat you effectively.
Please, please, please, it is time for the professionals to take over. Please stay with us.
Posted by Sebastian on November 26, 2004, at 21:38:16
In reply to Re: im thinking of WHY!, posted by Jeroen on November 26, 2004, at 13:39:16
Dude,
You are panicing. People don't die when they get TD, do they? What does your doctor say about it? Do you wear shades? Psychotropic meds make your eyes very sensitive to light. I notice when I'm taking too much, that I scwint and blink. How many meds do you take at what doses?
Posted by Jeroen on November 27, 2004, at 4:56:13
In reply to Re: im thinking of WHY!, posted by Sebastian on November 26, 2004, at 21:38:16
im taking zyprexa 10 mg for 1.4 weeks now
Posted by Sebastian on November 27, 2004, at 10:16:43
In reply to Re: im thinking of WHY!, posted by Jeroen on November 27, 2004, at 4:56:13
You need to give it more time. 1.4 weeks is definetly not enough time. When I had bad response to abilify it took atleast 3 weeks.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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