![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1204 to 1228 of 1838. Go back in thread:
Posted by headachequeen on November 15, 2004, at 13:29:02
In reply to Re: Is this for me?, posted by lorilu on November 15, 2004, at 2:27:48
I also have to schedule a followup appointment since I had a surgery for my sleep apnea. It will be interesting to see if I still have rls. I guess I could ask my husband but he is a sound sleeper. :)
>Surgery for sleep apnea??????
now, no one told me about that one....
I think I want a second opinion on this sleep clinic LOL
I have to have surgery on my wrist in January some time as it is...
there is this mess of bone chips or splinters or something woven into some nerves that has to be dealt with and there is all this confusion about it... has to be done because it is painful and interferes with my photography and that is not a thing I wish to have continue...
When I have days with no fog or whatever interfering I want my life back and that includes the cameras.
Yes, I want it ALL and gift-wrapped...
so the bone and nerve mess has to go....
but that means the surgeon and neurologist have to agree on anaesthetic and how and when and all the rest of it...but surgery for sleep apnea...
do they remove it?? :)
One of the things the doctor wanted to know was if I snored.... of course I don't. Ladies do not snore and I was raised to be a lady...
the dear husband informed that I do indeed snore... and loudly enough that he would rather be in the same room as a jack hammer... it would be quieter except when there is the pause in the snoring and then he has to listen to hear me start breathing again....
well I guess I should be happy he worries that I might not start breathing again except he says that as soon as I start breathing the snoring starts...
I think I want a lawyer....
how could he say such a cruel thing...
and to compare me with a jackhammer!!!!so maybe they can remove it??????
but seriously, no one mentioned anything following the clinic... I thought this was just one of those things like the stress clinic and that is such a joke....
kat
Posted by headachequeen on November 15, 2004, at 13:48:58
In reply to Topamax and depression, posted by stresser on November 15, 2004, at 6:25:23
Do we just fool ourselves for the sake of getting through the days? -L
Deep breaths and a moment of relaxation, then a moment of reality...
nothing builds up overnight and nothing is defeated overnight....
She came a long way in that she was able to tell you that she felt things were changing. She was beginning to have control over the binging and she was feeling better...
WOW and WOW again...
that was a huge step forward...
but there will be steps backward...
then the steps forward will occur again...
and then a step back..
but each time the forward will be sooner and a little further and the backward a little less drastic...May I enter again into one of my little illustrative memories...
I know. They are endless, but when one gets to my excessive years there has been a lot of memory and with the stuff I have entered into, a lot of doing so even more memories... some of them I hope useful, therefore I share...for many years we fostered teens in really horrendous emotional shape. For the most part we fostered girls, most of whom had attempted suicide on three or more occasions, most of whom had endured sexual abuse, physical abuse, and emotional abuse...
These were not the children people were anxious to adopt, although many were permanent wards of the Crown and should someone want to adopt one they were available...
In some cases before the girls became wards of the Crown, there was an effort made to rehabilitate them and return them to the family...
they would live with us for a time set by the court during which time someone was supposedly working with the parent/s and siblings if siblings there were, preparing for the child's return.
Eventually there would be visits arranged.
The first visit was usually here, with the parent/s and other children coming here for a short visit, perhaps a meal...
then the child would go home for an afternoon or a couple of hours, with one of us accompanying or the social worker, usually it was with Mom in attendance. Then a day, then an overnight, then a weekend then every second week-end...Usually these visits began after the girl had been with us for about three months...
during this time we had exposed her to a different life style, trust and respect and love and security... where the only type of disciplince was discussion-based, where the only physical contact was a hug (we believe a person needs at least four hugs a day to survive, seven to exist and twelve for growth), and where there was time for each child in the house... that is personal time...
I made sure there was time for each child, our own and the foster children on a one-to-one basis as did my husband, and we made time for them as a group and in smaller groups...
sometimes we had four teens and our own three here.. on one occasion we had our own three, two permanent fosters we eventually adopted, and seven others and I still don't know where we put them all... and it was wonderful chaos...However, when it came time for the ones who were to visit home to start the visiting, we would send 'home' for a week-end a child who had become quite a different child -- not totally healed but changed. (These children came here as a last resort. If they could not make it here it was an institution or group home and some of the workers would actually tell them this... talk about threats...)
They would leave here with different attitudes, in varying stages of healing, more confident, happier and stronger than when they arrive...
at the end of the visit, we would be met by the child who first arrived in our home...
at first it was so discouraging...
I would cry myself to sleep when it was finally safe to leave the child alone that first or second night without fear of her doing something drastic...
What had happened to the happy confident little girl I had said good-bye to at her mother's front door? Who was this moody angry violent creature I brought home with me?
We would start over at the beginning...
and by the time the next visit rolled around we would have our 'daughter' back... and at the end of the visit, we would have to start again...but as time went on we saw a pattern...
the regression lasted for a shorter time each visit and each time the girl would regress less...
until she could handle the visit better and hold on to her new self better... and handle the difference between 'home' and home...
In most cases we would end up in a conference with the worker and the child and she would tell the worker what was happening when she went 'home' and that would eventually end with the child becoming a permanent ward with a chance for a future...
but the interim was such a struggle for her and for us...it never became easier to live with even when we began to understand what was happening...
We also found they could handle only so much success then fear would overtake them; this was not my life yesterday and I don't know how to handle this, so I drift back into the known... then in a few days or whatever time was required the child would struggle back to the surface...
success is frightening....
hang in there, Mom
you are both doing well
don't give upkat
Posted by bridgey1128 on November 15, 2004, at 15:11:00
In reply to Re: Topamax and depression » stresser, posted by headachequeen on November 15, 2004, at 13:48:58
Sleep apnea a lot of times is caused by a deviated septum. This is the surgery to which they refer I am sure. My dad has looked into having the same surgery. That is what causes the snoring. Being overweight can also cause snoring and sleep apnea, which the solution would be to lose weight, which would not be your problem Kat. If you have apnea maybe you have a deviated septum. Also, if you are prone to a great deal of colds and sinus infections, this might be the cause. It's when the septum, which is cartilidge in your sinus, the midline, "deviates" to one side or the other causing blockage. Hence the snoring or excessive colds and sinusitis, loud breathing etc. When one lies down to sleep it blocks the nasal passages and causes them to stop breathing for short periods of time. Hence the apnea. Being heavy only exacerbates this, which would be my dad's problem. Depending on how bad the deviation is, it can either be straightened or totally removed. My mom has hers totally removed so if she gets bonked in the nose it REALLY hurts. No cartilidge to absorb the blow. Anyway, this could be the possible reason for your sleep apnea.
Posted by headachequeen on November 15, 2004, at 15:39:18
In reply to Re: Deviated septum, posted by bridgey1128 on November 15, 2004, at 15:11:00
> Sleep apnea a lot of times is caused by a deviated septum. This is the surgery to which they refer I am sure. My dad has looked into having the same surgery. That is what causes the snoring. Being overweight can also cause snoring and sleep apnea, which the solution would be to lose weight, which would not be your problem Kat. If you have apnea maybe you have a deviated septum. Also, if you are prone to a great deal of colds and sinus infections, this might be the cause. It's when the septum, which is cartilidge in your sinus, the midline, "deviates" to one side or the other causing blockage. Hence the snoring or excessive colds and sinusitis, loud breathing etc. When one lies down to sleep it blocks the nasal passages and causes them to stop breathing for short periods of time. Hence the apnea. Being heavy only exacerbates this, which would be my dad's problem. Depending on how bad the deviation is, it can either be straightened or totally removed. My mom has hers totally removed so if she gets bonked in the nose it REALLY hurts. No cartilidge to absorb the blow. Anyway, this could be the possible reason for your sleep apnea.
Oh is that all....
I thought they would remove the apnea... whatever the heck that is...
sort of like the man who was shot and the bullet was in him yet because they couldn't find his yet...I have been seeing this throat and nose specialist for a year or so because of the vocal cord problem... last visit (I was to have seen him a week or so ago but was in hospital and missed that appt) he decided to take a closer look using fibre optics which involved running this tubing through my nose... except the tube which is really quite fine and the fibres tickle, would not travel through the nostril...
he tried three times and each time it was impossible or impassable...
tried the left nostril and it was a simple if unpleasant thing...
and done in a flash really...
then he took a closer look at the nose and informed me that I had broken it...
and I honestly do not remember doing so...
remember when it might have happened but do not remember the actual fact or what I think must have been severe pain...
so he prescribed a 'turboinhaler' and suddenly I can breathe through that side of my nose...
it has been a real problem when I have a cold and with this asthma nonsense...
for the past forty years or so I have had only half of my breathing apparatus working....he told me that when he saw me again, after the speech path had had some time to try and work her magic, he would re-evaluate the nose and would probably have to do some corrective surgery...
may one will do for both and I see him before the sleep clinic...
methinks we had better arrange a little conference call LOL and get the neuro, the sleep guy and the nose guy together on this...
I knew ladies didn't snore...at least not intentionally
my grandmother always told me that it was sooo unlady-like...
LOLand maybe if it has to be done, they can get together with the neurosurgeon doing the wrist ...
and we can have a party... chips, dip, a little champagne...
may as well make the best of it...deviated septum??? Isn't that the usual excuse for having one's nose altered for cosmetic reasons???
I have always hated my nose...
wanted to have it changed when I was a teenager and my grandfather when I was 16 said he was tired of hearing about it...
he would pay for it as long as he never had to hear about it again...
but if I didn't like the new one I was not allowed to complain...
well I hadn't thought of that possibility LOL
and decided I had better stick with the devil I knew in case I didn't like the unknown devil any better...
<g>
kat
Posted by rainy on November 15, 2004, at 15:42:06
In reply to Re: Deviated septum, posted by bridgey1128 on November 15, 2004, at 15:11:00
My husband isn't over weight but he does send me to the couch sometimes with his snoring. Last winter I too listened for him to stat breathing again. The surgery he might have had to under could have been where they clip the uvula--that bit of tissue that hangs down at the back of the throat and apparently vibrates, increasing the richness of the snore an effect its audience doesn't fully appreciate.
He didn't have sleep apnea but they did suggest that he wear an O2 mask or some such to enable him to breath more easily at night--it would be hooked up to a loud machine at the side of the bed which would have been so romantic.
As far as the sleep clinic goes, he enjoyed it because the tech was cute (the old goat) and he didn't mind being hooked up to electrodes. He could have watched TV but we don't except for a couple of cop shows and West Wing, so he read until he got sleepy and woke up the next morning with a pass to the hospital cafeteria. Not scary. Bad hospital food though. And they woke him up him before 7 so they could go home.
Try not to get torqued up. Weight yes. Sleep clinic, no.
rainy
Posted by headachequeen on November 15, 2004, at 15:51:22
In reply to Re: Deviated septum, posted by rainy on November 15, 2004, at 15:42:06
> My husband isn't over weight but he does send me to the couch sometimes with his snoring. Last winter I too listened for him to stat breathing again. The surgery he might have had to under could have been where they clip the uvula--that bit of tissue that hangs down at the back of the throat and apparently vibrates, increasing the richness of the snore an effect its audience doesn't fully appreciate.
>
> He didn't have sleep apnea but they did suggest that he wear an O2 mask or some such to enable him to breath more easily at night--it would be hooked up to a loud machine at the side of the bed which would have been so romantic.
>
> As far as the sleep clinic goes, he enjoyed it because the tech was cute (the old goat) and he didn't mind being hooked up to electrodes. He could have watched TV but we don't except for a couple of cop shows and West Wing, so he read until he got sleepy and woke up the next morning with a pass to the hospital cafeteria. Not scary. Bad hospital food though. And they woke him up him before 7 so they could go home.
>
> Try not to get torqued up. Weight yes. Sleep clinic, no.
>
> rainy
>
>The info I was given regarding the clinic appt is that they monitor three patients at a time... arriving at fifteen minute intervals...
we are to bring a pillow from home as the hospital pillows are not comfortable... tell me something I don't know :(...
and a book...
not to take a nap during the day... at least not after two in the afternoon and I think stimulants are banned...
and then there is info regarding meds... which I have to discuss with the doctors involved of course...
an eeg is attached to head and a monitor attached to neck to monitor snoring... the husband I am about to divorce says they will not need a monitor...
electrodes attached to legs and I forget the rest of it...
there is a print-out of three pages...
I am to be there for nine-fifteen and will be awakened in time to leave at six-fifteen...I have news for them... I don't usually fall asleep until around six...
that is one of the reasons I am going to this clinic...
I drift off to sleep around midnight, then waken and stay awake until around six and sleep soundly until nine or ten... them's my best sleeping hours...
this is the reason for this exercise that and the sleep apnea the nurses noted and that the husband apparently noticed... the one I am divorcing <g>
over my alleged snoring...
At the end of all the directions they tell you to have a good night's sleep...
well, sillies, if we could sleep well, we wouldn't need to be there...they also tell people who already have some thing or other.. have to look it up on the pamphlet... for sleep apnea to bring it to wear while they sleep...
I shall be like Bridgey, looking around to see what these things are...
<g>
and never get to sleep...
shall have to take a really dull book...
if I am reading something interesting I shall never go to sleep LOLor else I keep thinking about it even when I sleep....
and that wakens me so I can start reading again...
Heaven, I can be my own worst enemy....
and I have not told the doctors about that !!!kat
Posted by bridgey1128 on November 15, 2004, at 16:31:42
In reply to Re: Deviated septum » rainy, posted by headachequeen on November 15, 2004, at 15:51:22
It sounds like you do have a deviated septum. And no that usually isn't the reason people have a nose job. It's because they have big ugly honkers! hehe Or they just have too much money to spend on ridiculous things and have already bought a pair of breasts. :P You don't remember breaking your nose and I don't remember getting whiplash! We're even! hehe Ever since my chiro has worked on my back I have slept a LOT better. My mind has slowed down a LOT since being on the Topomax so the racing thoughts aren't there to keep me awake. Gee, now I have the bronchitis to keep me awake...ugh...WHY OH WHY! Everything tastes like tomatoes right now and I don't know why. I have a tomatoey aftertaste. It's odd. Well, it could be worse. I could NOT like tomatoes. Sounds like you need to have some kind of Dr conference Kat. Get ALLLLLL your Dr's together and say.."Ok....now WHAT are we going to do here?" You can serve wine and cheese. hehe Then while they are in there doing your nose you can say.."Hey, why don't you give me a pair of D's and do a nip tuck or something." I tried to get them to do some lypo when they did my c-section. They didn't go for it. Oh well. I guess we can't have something for nothing! ;)
Posted by headachequeen on November 15, 2004, at 18:06:16
In reply to Re: Deviated septum, posted by bridgey1128 on November 15, 2004, at 16:31:42
> It sounds like you do have a deviated septum. And no that usually isn't the reason people have a nose job. It's because they have big ugly honkers! hehe Or they just have too much money to spend on ridiculous things and have already bought a pair of breasts. :P You don't remember breaking your nose and I don't remember getting whiplash! We're even! hehe Ever since my chiro has worked on my back I have slept a LOT better. My mind has slowed down a LOT since being on the Topomax so the racing thoughts aren't there to keep me awake. Gee, now I have the bronchitis to keep me awake...ugh...WHY OH WHY! Everything tastes like tomatoes right now and I don't know why. I have a tomatoey aftertaste. It's odd. Well, it could be worse. I could NOT like tomatoes. Sounds like you need to have some kind of Dr conference Kat. Get ALLLLLL your Dr's together and say.."Ok....now WHAT are we going to do here?" You can serve wine and cheese. hehe Then while they are in there doing your nose you can say.."Hey, why don't you give me a pair of D's and do a nip tuck or something." I tried to get them to do some lypo when they did my c-section. They didn't go for it. Oh well. I guess we can't have something for nothing! ;)
Oh, I know the real reason for all the nose jobs but I remember all the quotes about corrected deviated septum corrections and thinking that the minds were deviated that thought we were that dumb or else there was an epidemic <g>
when I had the second hysterectomy...yes, the second... remember I said I never got anything right... I told the surgeon that this was the last chance... if they wanted my tonsils, adenoids, gall bladder, appendix, or anything else, this was the time to do it because I was not doing this again...
and while they were at it a tummy tuck would be nice...
well I still have all the above and no tummy tuck ...
seems the surgeon thought exercise would be as effective... what a killjoy he was!
so I fixed him... I did the redhead thing and it took eleven months for the surgery to heal ...
I was his first post-op infection in over five years and the first ever of that dimension...
he should have given me the tummy tuck and I would have been easier to get along with....I wonder what the tomato taste is from???
I have been smelling vinegar for a day or two..no matter where I am or what I am doing, there it is, vinegar...
simple partial seizures apparently can involve 'olfactory hallucinations' such as unpleasant odours... mine usually involve pleasant odours, such as the pipe tobacco my grandfather smoked... and they last for a very short time, not a couple of days....
but vinegar... phew....and today my face and hands and part of my forearms are doing the electric tingles...
We should all get together and catalogue all this stuff , then sell it to a medical school for some sort of study... we could become a syndrome and be famous...
This afternoon I sat down with a cup of coffee to start the Christmas card thing...
a Third Watch rerun was on and I was sort of watching it as I checked the list and addresses...
next thing I knew the paramedics were dealing with a kid in a severe tonic clonic state... heading for status epilepticus...
it was the most amazing sensation to sit there and watch and listen and think....
now I know why I prefer to listen to music and so seldom watch television...kat
Posted by rainy on November 15, 2004, at 18:14:30
In reply to Re: Deviated septum » bridgey1128, posted by headachequeen on November 15, 2004, at 18:06:16
yeah, third watch! that and special victims and west wing are what we east coast intellectuals watch while we eat supper. Lord, you guys are the first people I've ever admitted that to.
this is probably going t get us kicked off onto social and I'm wondering what Aussie, who spoke up yesterday about titrating up on Topamax very slowly, might be thinking.
I'm sorry, Aussie, your contribution wasn't acknowledged, but I appreciated reading it and I hope you'll stick with the board and keep posting.
rainy
Posted by headachequeen on November 15, 2004, at 18:25:22
In reply to Re: Deviated septum » headachequeen, posted by rainy on November 15, 2004, at 18:14:30
> yeah, third watch! that and special victims and west wing are what we east coast intellectuals watch while we eat supper. Lord, you guys are the first people I've ever admitted that to.
>
> this is probably going t get us kicked off onto social and I'm wondering what Aussie, who spoke up yesterday about titrating up on Topamax very slowly, might be thinking.
>
> I'm sorry, Aussie, your contribution wasn't acknowledged, but I appreciated reading it and I hope you'll stick with the board and keep posting.
>
> rainyI didn't even get that post....
anyone who speaks up about titrating slowly up is going to get my serious round of cheers...
it is so important...and that reminds me...
I found the sheets of info on the tegretol and clobazam that came with my latest prescriptions and shall post the warnings that come with them...
fascinating stuff....
including the information that people using tegretol should wear a bracelet or carry a wallet card stating this info....now does that carry on for topomax too I wonder???
going to ask pharmacist....and why do doctors recommend fast titrating on topomax...
I asked my pharmacist and she says it is often because they have not read all the literature and she always tells patients to go slowly....as for third watch...
that episode tonight really, as my new client's teenaged daughter would say, freaked me out...
I felt I was watching myself being treated...
and when they started arguing as to using ativan or valium I was shaking and in tears....
I know from talking to my doctor and his nurse and with the husband I have yet to divorce <g> that I was given valium to ease the seizures... they said it was more effective than ativan...
when husband came in I was on the sofa as rigid as a board, staring at the television, arms folded around myself, rocking back and forth...back to music from now on... although I do like West Wing...
as long as they don't enter into any epileptic stuff....kat
Posted by bridgey1128 on November 15, 2004, at 20:28:00
In reply to Re: Deviated septum » rainy, posted by headachequeen on November 15, 2004, at 18:25:22
Clobazam...that sounds like something that Flash Gordan would say...
Posted by headachequeen on November 15, 2004, at 23:22:42
In reply to SHAZAM!, posted by bridgey1128 on November 15, 2004, at 20:28:00
> Clobazam...that sounds like something that Flash Gordan would say...
Doesn't it sound ridiculous... it is very hard to take it seriously, believe me...
I keep expecting Robin to pop out and yell,
Holy Clobazam, Batman!The warning with it says to tell your doctor your medical history (well if he doesn't know my history why is he prescribing it????)
especially kidney disease, liver disease, respiratory disease,depression, severe muscle weakness, certain types of glaucoma, history of chemical dependence, any allergies.
SInce this medication may cause drowsiness use caution operating machinery or engaging in activities requiring alertness such as driving...
(As it is an anti-seizure medication and it is illegal to have a driver's licence while suffering from seizures that is an interesting note...)
not recommended for pregnant or nursing mothers..under drug reactions it says to tell your doctor of all prescription and non-precription meds you may use, especially for depression, narcotic pain relievers, sleeping pills, tranquilisers, antihistamines, other seizure medications.
again, if my doctor prescribes this, he had better be aware of the other stuff especially anti-seizure stuff he has prescribed...
then again my previous neuro prescribed aspirin with tegretol....
Side Effects: drowsiness, dizziness, tiredness, fatigue, loss of co-ordination, or nausea may occur. Constipation, loss of appetite, muscle weakness, dry mouth, tremor, weight gain, or restlessness rarely occur.
Notify your doctor if you develop a rapid, pounding,or irregular heartbeat, changes in vision, slurred speech, confusion, depression, irritability, behavioural changes.
If you have an allergic reaction seek immediate medical attention.It adds that the elderly may be more sensitive to the drug
and that it can be habit-forming so use cautiously....So far I have noticed only that it is an appetite suppressant for me...
I am not at all hungry... since I have started taking it I do not care at all if I eat, more so than with the topomax and it does make me drowsy.When I fall asleep it is a sound sleep and I don't waken ... the house can fall and I sleep...
a new phenomenon...
still takes me a while to get to sleep but once I get there it is solid...so two of the side effects have arrived with it...
no hair loss mentioned thoughand my dear husband says that my lack of coordination can not be blamed on clobazam ...
as for the nausea that comes and goes..
is that tegretol or clbazam???
and the dizziness... clobazam or tegretol or aura???
and the confusion and blurred vision... clobazam or epileptic happenimg???
Holy Batman, Robin...
all this stuff really clouds the issue.
Some times I think it would be easier to go without the meds and see what happens... easier to identify causes anyway...
well I know what I mean, speaking of confusion...
Flash Gordon, where are you when I need you to sort out my thoughts...
kat
Posted by rainy on November 16, 2004, at 6:27:58
In reply to Stresser: GP vs Pdoc, posted by rainy on November 15, 2004, at 13:25:01
Posted by stresser on November 16, 2004, at 8:55:27
In reply to Re: Topamax and depression » stresser, posted by headachequeen on November 15, 2004, at 13:48:58
I am really impressed with your parenting skills. Your are the parent I have always wanted to be, but didn't know how. I feel ecredibly guilty, so much so that it's creating a new depression. I know that I don't hug my children enough, and because of it they aren't affectionate people. I was never showed much affection as a child, and should have known better, but I guess I didn't. Some things are hard to change, and some people are hard to change. What I would give to do it all over again.....I think of Bridgey with her little one's and envy her because she hasn't had much of a chance to screw up yet. You will have to excuse my pity party today. It's raining outside....and that seems to put me in a ratty mood. The bottome of the pit seems really deep today, and I don't have a clue as to why. Tomorrow could be a total turn around, who knows. Wierd huh? We will keep plugging away on the medication as always. Keep going everyone! -L
Posted by rainy on November 16, 2004, at 9:39:18
In reply to Re: Topamax and depression » headachequeen, posted by stresser on November 16, 2004, at 8:55:27
You're posting to Kat so I'm butting in here. L, I don't believe we parents are the major part of our kids' depression, eating disorders, schizophrenia and the host of maladies we humans are subject to. It's nobodies' "fault". We can only be supportive and steer them as best we can toward the best help, as we understand it it, that we can. You're doing that.
You also can't help feeling guilty--I've shed hot tears over our kids. I believe our son shares the bipolar II gene--he walked, no ran out of the psychologist's office when he was 16, and is now at 35 having a very hard time. Talk about creative people--he is surely one. He can't hold a job. Now, when he e-mails and I see the "love" before his sign off I am so grateful...Our daughter, 37, is still on prozac which she began in college. Her MFA was in creative writing and Ph.D in English Lit--she's a poet working as a paralegal in a medical malpractice firm. She saw a psychiatrist for over a year. (Meds and therapy.)
Both of them have been on long hard journeys which aren't half over. We were affectionate from the beginning. We got help for them as soon as we sensed things were going wrong. We should have had family therapy but we were too proud/blind for that, even though we both had taken courses in it--we didn't need it, oh no!
Jeeze. We made a lot of mistakes.
My mother told me how guilty she felt about stuff she'd done. Looking back I thought no, you and Dad did your best. Even though I didn't like her and was mad at some of the things she said and did--it was mostly her attitude bothered me and which I'm afraid is much like mine.We are who we are and we do what we have to do. This isn't to say we can't learn a thing or two which is where I wish we had gone into family therapy--my husband and I might have learned some helpful things as well as felt better about ourselves as parents.
It doesn't seem fair that parenting is so hard and that our kids go in ways that we don't want them to despite all our love and and care. But a child's depression isn't her/his fault nor the parents'. Unless there are extenuating circumstances, of course, like abuse, major stress that could have been prevented, that kind of thing.
My warmest thoughts to you on this 15th day of Novemebr
rainy
Posted by headachequeen on November 16, 2004, at 10:49:40
In reply to Re: Topamax and depression » headachequeen, posted by stresser on November 16, 2004, at 8:55:27
> I am really impressed with your parenting skills. Your are the parent I have always wanted to be, but didn't know how. I feel ecredibly guilty, so much so that it's creating a new depression. I know that I don't hug my children enough, and because of it they aren't affectionate people. I was never showed much affection as a child, and should have known better, but I guess I didn't. Some things are hard to change, and some people are hard to change. What I would give to do it all over again.....I think of Bridgey with her little one's and envy her because she hasn't had much of a chance to screw up yet. You will have to excuse my pity party today. It's raining outside....and that seems to put me in a ratty mood. The bottome of the pit seems really deep today, and I don't have a clue as to why. Tomorrow could be a total turn around, who knows. Wierd huh? We will keep plugging away on the medication as always. Keep going everyone! -L
My parenting skills so-called were learned from mistakes and from the lack of parenting I received... my mother was Aberdeen granite and did not believe in displays of emotion... I never received a hug or any demonstration of affection in my entire childhood or teens ...
but I had this grandfather... oh what a treasure...
he was not a hugging person but he was a loving person and I spent a lot of time with my grandparents...and a hug is not always a 'hug' ...
a touch that is gentle and loving.. brushing the hair back from the eyes... a pat on the arm...
a quick arm around the shoulders...
any contact that is gentle, loving, and physical...
and meant to convey the message that you care...parenting is a learn as you go process and we tried to fix our mistakes as we went... we learned to say I'm sorry, I was wrong, can we start again
a lot..one time we had a girl who hated getting out of bed... when she slept she escaped...
so one Sunday rather than make her get up and go to church with the rest of us, she always went with me in the evening anyway and I don't think the hour of the day really matters, we tied her door with toilet paper ribbons and bows and made her a gift of the morning..
She was so happy when she got up...
well once she got past the irritation of the gift-wrapped bedroom door... she didn't see it the way the rest of us did at first.. and it lasted all day..
a first for her..
she had a lot to get past...
her mom used to trade her for rent money from the time she was eleven...
she tried to kill herself a couple of times by overdosing on her mother's valium. The third time they brought her here right from the psych ward at her local hospital...
I was terrified that she would try again; we had never had a child under our roof who had tried to kill herself so immediately...
I was afraid to go to sleep or to turn my back on her for even a second... eventually I relaxed and she relaxed..
she used to mark the bottles in the liquor cabinet.. all three or four of them, and the first thing she would do when she came home from school was check the marks she had put on them...
she was not quite thirteen and had lived through so much I had never imagined...
The agency decided to send her home when she was fifteen...
I couldn't believe it...
how could they do that to her after all that had happened to her...
three months later, her sixteenth birthday, when they can no longer exert control if she chooses to leave, there was a knock on the door and there she was, wondering if she could stay for a few days...
how long? oh, till I finish college...
She is now legally ours... and an incredibly gifted and understanding social worker dealing with add and adhd children as well as a new program she has developed for teens in trouble with the law...
her agency lends her all over the country to teach others how to implement her programme for add and adhd...
and everytime she calls to tell me where she is winging off to next I am in absolute awe that this wondrous creature was able to survive the incredible abuse and torture she endured...my dear L, your parenting skills are not at all in question... you are working from love and care and concern....
you feel that they are not up to par because your daughter is going through one of the teen crises that is so agonising and you feel as all parents do that it must be your fault..
after all, mothers are supposed to be able to fix it all with a kiss...
well, it ain't so.. that is another of the television script-writers' myths...
mothers are not super-creatures...
they are human and doing the best they can to work with the available resources to make life easier for the children they love...
that is what parenting skills really are...
love and using the available resources...
a little resilience is helpful too....the people like my darling Susie's mother, for lack of a better term, are the ones without parenting skills... she didn't even want any...
her child was a useful commodity...
that is lack of parenting skills... lack of caring, lack of love, total self-absorption...you don't even come close to having poor parenting skills...
oh, ma chere amie, you aren't even on the richter scale....
sorry if I burst your balloon because you are a darned caring and dedicated mom... it is in every post you write about your daughter...
every single word....kat who has met some of the worst
Posted by rainy on November 16, 2004, at 14:43:16
In reply to Re: Topamax and depression, posted by headachequeen on November 16, 2004, at 14:03:16
Which is what Kat just said..the health part. I just got back from my therapist visit where I squirmed until she asked if I were uncomfortable and I told her about the pain in my upper left back, shoulder and arm that has been increasing to the point of waking me every time I turn over.
hurts when I drive, get dressed--you get the picture. I shout "ow" in the grocery store and had an excuse to leave church early becuse I couldn't deal with the pew.Turns out from the package insert that one of the main side effects of provigil is "back pain." They aren't specific about location. Now what I've got is a huge muscle spasm, starting at my left shoulder and running down to the middle of my back, close to my spine. I can feel the knots in the durn thing. I also think that may be where the sudden tingling, especially in my left hand is coming from. I've been blaming Topamax.
At my appointment, the therapist showed me some acupuncture points, we did some "tapping" on them and the pain lessened enough to get me home--a 25 minute trip on a busy highway, without damage. She also gave me, at my request, the # of her acupuncturist.
I have an appointment with an orthopdist Thursday. I'm finding that the provigil does clear the oatmeal out of my head and when taken in divided doses doesn't semm as anxiety provoking as when snarfed down all at once. So--do I complain to Pdoc today about it and risk getting jerked off of it or wait until the muscle guy has had a look?
What kinds of experience have you guys had with acupuncture? A close friend as well as our daughter have found it very helpful. Gererally I prefer alternative routes. another thing about provigil is that it seems to be an appetite supressant and even at 100 mgs and on Topamax, I've wanted to eat and eat the last couple of days. !!??
Wouldn't it be nice to just be?
rainy
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 17, 2004, at 5:09:16
In reply to Re: Topamax and depression, posted by headachequeen on November 16, 2004, at 10:49:40
> My parenting skills so-called were learned from mistakes and from the lack of parenting I received...
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding parenting skills to Psycho-Babble Social. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20041114/msgs/416940.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by rainy on November 18, 2004, at 20:17:37
In reply to Redirect: parenting skills, posted by Dr. Bob on November 17, 2004, at 5:09:16
According to the pacakage insert, on of the main reasons people quit taking provigil is because of muscle stiffness. I've been on 200 mgs of the stuff for about a month in the hope that it would help to alleviate some of the lethargy and muzziness that are apparently a function of bothe the depression and the treatment of bipolar II.
Well. My back has been killing me for about ten days--a super spasm-- but it wasn't until I read the consumer info that came with my refill and saw "muscle stiffness" as one of the things to report promptly to the doc that I connected the two. I went to the orthopedist today in the hope of a referral to P.T for some massage or heat and exercise or something and maybe some significant pain pills like tylenol # 3. I suspected a roator cuff injury, too. I also planned to call my Pdoc immediately after seeing ortho to ask her opinion about dicontinuing provigil (instead of just doing it on my own.)The ortho guy offered me steriods, which I know from experience are a real mood destabilizer. Hypomania or the pits or both within minutes--it's just awful. The he suggested Rx NSAIDs which are major downers for me--even aspirin can shove me over the edge into the doldrums if Topamax isn't paying attention or I'm not. When I toldn him these facts of life and mentioned that I have bipolar II he got sort of annoyed and said I was tying his hands. I also told him I thought it was a srug side effect, he said no it was definately rotator cuff. He said he wasn't familiar with provigil and didn't know about its adverse effects. I asked him about other meds, he said there weree about 30 of them but they would probably all interact with my other "problems." I suggested that he could look them up. Pause. Now none of this was argumentative or angry or harsh on my part.
He gave me some exercises which will be helpful but right now it's painful to attempt them. I asked for some "pain pills." "Pain pills??" "You mean like codeine???" Affirmative nod. "They're addictive!! I would never give codeine to You!" So then I asked him if he would be offenede if I tried acupuncture--I've had some success with tapping on the acupunture points that my therapist showed me Tuesday--it got me through until today at least--and he said that while he had no experience with it I could try it and to let him know if it helped.
When I got home, I called pdoc and she agreed that indeed muscle spasm is a common adverse effect of provigil and suggested that I taper off from 200 mgs to 100 the next three mornings and then off. I'm going slower, 100 every other day. The tablets are scored. I only took 100 today because I hurt so bad.
As for the office visit, I think I know where I went wrong. I went in expecting a peer relationship for starters. I also had a diagnosis in mind that didn't fit in with this doctor's field of experience.
I challeneged his MO--I suggested he could look something up--there wasn't a book in sight in the little room and he had one foor out the door the whole time he was in there anyway.
Posted by stresser on November 18, 2004, at 20:40:55
In reply to a cautionary tale, posted by rainy on November 18, 2004, at 20:17:37
Are you sure your back problems are due to the medication, and not a problem with a muscle? I had a problem with my rotator cuff several years ago, and took some skelaxen (sp) for it. That seemed to help a little, but not as much as doing yoga. Yes, yoga, Power yoga to be exact. That strengthend my core, and my back problems that I was having went away along with my shoulder pain. Who would have guessed (not me) that yoga would correct those problems that I would have always have taken medication for. I thought yoga was too slow and boring at first, but when the pain and suffering started to ease up, I started thinking "hey, there might me something to this". I have been practicing several forms of yoga for around eight years or so, in fact; I liked it enough to teach it. It's calming, (I need that)I didn't realize how tight I really was until I had practiced it enought to loosen up my body. You may have some muscle imbalances that can be altered with some form of stretching. If only yoga could cure the other problems in life, huh? ...... There's always good ole' medication. -L
Posted by rainy on November 19, 2004, at 8:06:56
In reply to Re: a cautionary tale, posted by stresser on November 18, 2004, at 20:40:55
You have an excellent point, L. The only reason I connect the two is that the pain seems coincident with starting the provigil and the literature suggests that this med may be contraindicated in people with muscle weakness. I've had the latter ever since I had Guillain-barre in my early 20s and an autoimmune polyneurpathy a decade later. Ortho says rotator, Pdoc says provigil. Also there was no trauma attached to the spasm, physical that is.
I'm covering all bases: going off the provigil, calling the acupuncturist and when the pain lessens, doing the exercises. Also unrolling the yoga mat and getting out the tape someone loaned me. I've been wanting to restart yoga ever since we moved but it's been beyond budget.
My point in my prior post was that the physician refused to provide me with a short course of a commonly used analgesic for acute pain because he thought I would become addicted, apparently because I made the mistake of having a bipolar II diagnosis and telling him about it.
Also of challenging his diagnosis, or saying there might be more to it and of refusing his offerings, because in my experience the consequences of steriods aren't pretty and of NSAIDs, depressing.
So be careful what and how you share with a physician. Pdoc was very supportive of my annoyed unhappiness with the ortho visit. I forgot to ask her for some tylenol # 3, but I'm not sure psychiatrists Rx other meds anyway.
And thanks for the kick in the butt, L--yoga is wonderful for body, mind and spirit. I just have to get over this acute hump.
rainy
Posted by merry on November 19, 2004, at 14:13:41
In reply to Re: a cautionary tale » stresser, posted by rainy on November 19, 2004, at 8:06:56
I think I would like to try yoga. I have a shoulder and hip problem. tightness, pain. chiropractic treatments help a great deal but I cannot afford it much longer. Thanks.
merry
Posted by rainy on November 19, 2004, at 16:12:10
In reply to Re: a cautionary tale, posted by merry on November 19, 2004, at 14:13:41
I was thinking I couldn't afford yoga either until a friend loaned me a mat and a beginner's tape.
It can be relaxing, but there are some kinds that are strenuous--I don't know what they are and we might get kicked off again for discussing them. Yoga doesn't have horrible adverse effects like our friend Topamax and provigil and the SSRIs. At least you don't gain weight with it!
rainy.
Posted by stresser on November 19, 2004, at 20:25:55
In reply to no adverse effects » merry, posted by rainy on November 19, 2004, at 16:12:10
Here you are!! This is like "Hide and Seek"!!!!! <g>You are right about yoga, the only side-effects can be some muscle soreness. In it is cheap, all you need is a mat, or a towel. Do any of you take welbutrin? Have I asked that already? If so, what dosage do you take. My daughter is back on it, and we are waiting for it to kick-in. I'm quite concerned, because after reading some of Larry's post's, I understand that sometimes when you take a drug and stop, the second time around it may not work. Do any of you still binge with the topamax? She says it's working, but I do know what she is binging sometimes. We are also really considering changing Pdoc, because he's not helping her at all. We just left the office today, and I don't think anything has changed with her way of thinking about the binging in two years. He's a great guy, but I'm afraid he's not the one. I do know she came home and at half a bag of cookies.....so that didn't help today, huh? Anxiety really brings in on, I did learn that one. FINALLY. I think sometimes I'm brain dead. What's your take on all of this? -L
Posted by rainy on November 20, 2004, at 6:21:59
In reply to Re: no adverse effects, posted by stresser on November 19, 2004, at 20:25:55
I've been on wellbutrin for about five years, with one stop and restart this past september. Honestly, I don't know whether it helps or not. I think it raises my anxiety level a little. I'm on 100 mg SR q.i.d--I take one pill 4 times a day to maintain a steady state of the stuff in my blood or liver or wherever it's metabolized. Pdoc wanted me to take a 300 mg dose in the AM but the effect didn't stick with me--I could feel the clouds descending after about five hours. Sort of like aspirin for depression.
I went off because she thought it wasn't helping. As soon as I went off, I got really depressed so it must have been doing something.
It has had no effect on my appetite or weight as far as I can tell. I do get the jitters within a half an hour after taking each pill.It didn't help with the eating disorder. The literature says don't take it if you have a history of anorexia or bulimea, but it doesn't mention binge eating. The other two theoretically make a wellbutrin user more vulnerable to siezures. My former psychiatrist said that was a far out precaution.
It usually takes about a month to kick in, but people respond differently, especially adolescents.
I do know that we went to a rather silly play last night and I really laughed for the first time in weeks and weeks so something's working.
Speaking from my own experience, binge eating usually occured after a sharp rise/drop in blood sugar, like 20 minutes after a meal. At least as an adult. As a teen--I guess all bets were off. Whenever my parents left the house.
rainy
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.