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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 26. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by crazychickuk on November 11, 2004, at 14:39:30
Thought i could manage with no meds been 3 mnths now andno i cant i am worse, i got no motivation, i cant be arsed to go out anywhere i tryed today went to the park after i picked my daughter up from school which was hard anyways and as soon as i got to the park wham bamm palpitaions galour i nearly fainted i felt all dizzy and weird my legs were like jelly, i grabbed my daughter all the other parents were looking at me :-( and i walked home really fast, i feel brain fogged 90% all the time i am depressed and cant stop thinking I AM NOT LIVING I AM EXSISTING i am seeing a counciller to chat to and an ocupational therapist who is pushing me to hard, i cancelled her last appointment cus i cant be arsed with her,. she wants to take me on the train she can get stuffed.. thats just my attitude , i dont see physciatrist any more, i stopped meds cus they just r eact badly with me, ssri's are a no no cus of the reactins with me, tca's are also a no no remeron was gr8 but i had to stop after 2 yrs cus of them changing the tablet form.. im at a loss i might aswell not be here i am just wasting air sorry to write this i am kind of thiunking some what straight i think.i mean what meds are available in the uk to the uk?
Posted by Peddidle on November 11, 2004, at 15:14:42
In reply to I cant't cope, posted by crazychickuk on November 11, 2004, at 14:39:30
crazychickuk~
I'm sorry you are feeling this way. Have you told your counselor how you are feeling? If you really feel there is no point in being here anymore, think of your daughter and your family...do you really want to leave them?
If you really feel you can't cope, please go to the call your doctor (counselor) or go to the hospital.Best of luck!
Posted by slinky on November 11, 2004, at 22:36:52
In reply to I cant't cope, posted by crazychickuk on November 11, 2004, at 14:39:30
Don't do anything you feel you can't..contact therapist tell her you can't take the train.
Or get a nurse?
I also can't be arsed anymore with anything...so my advice is crap.
Try phoning the NHS hotline and say how you feel.
I don't know what to advise...I'm funking fed up with it all...I need a carer or something.
Posted by MKB on November 11, 2004, at 23:07:45
In reply to I cant't cope, posted by crazychickuk on November 11, 2004, at 14:39:30
You may possibly need medication to control the heart beating rapidly. I have to take a calcium channel blocker (Verapamil) to control mine. Otherwise, I would live in constant fear of my heart starting to beat 220 beats a minute, then having EMTs (emergency medical technicians) come to stop it and restart it before taking me to the emergency room. This has happened twice. Without the medicine I would be worried about this happening again. Both times it happened I was experiencing severe situational anxiety, so it's not solely a physical phenomena. See if your doctor can give you something.
Posted by ed_uk on November 12, 2004, at 7:13:56
In reply to I cant't cope, posted by crazychickuk on November 11, 2004, at 14:39:30
Hello crazychickuk,
Sorry to hear you've been having such a bad time lately.
Why did you have to stop the Remeron/Zispin? Was there a problem with the SolTabs? If you don't like the SolTabs, mirtazapine is also available as a syrup(oral solution) in the UK. You might like the oral solution better.
Alternatively, you could try mianserin instead. Mianserin is Remeron's 'sister drug'- it is very similar to Remeron. It comes in the form of standard tablets (not SolTabs).
All the best...
Ed
Posted by crazychickuk on November 12, 2004, at 7:31:59
In reply to Re: I cant't cope, posted by ed_uk on November 12, 2004, at 7:13:56
Thanks for the reply's
Well i stopped the zispin as the soltabs i couldnt get on with... these past 3 mnths with no meds have been hell i am a nervous wreck the slightest noise freaks me out, i cant go outside the door its like a barrier and i am so depressed got no motivation .. if i go bk to the doc they will just like offer me more meds and i am afraid to take them as i feel they are just making me worse.. effexor gave me anxiety ssri's gave me panick attacks and zispin has now given me depression.. i cant go into hospital, weird people i got my daughter and i rather be alone sometimes i guess..Shall i go bk to effexor i have it here in the cupboard i dunt know what to do.. the doc only gave it to me cus i was obsessed it will reverse my brain back to where it was when i first started on it before i abused it (wasnt anxious then till i abused it:@)
ok any imput i want to get better i cant handle this dream state any more..
thanks
heres a list of all meds i have had
effexor - was first for mild depression (abused it got anxiety)i only abused it cu i was mild depressed i felt normal just my freinds were all raving with extasy o i thought i want to be high to and took to many effexor's (no e's) then thats when i had my first panick attck along with parnoia etc..
cipramil/celexa - sever panick attacks
zoloft - doc had to take me of as it raised my bp and hrt rate so did prozac and seroxat (made me numb also)-sp docs said no more ssri'strazadone- gave me such a panick reaction my hrt was so slow
tca such as dothiapin - my hrt was fluttering badly
reboxatine/edronax-only took it for one day as i was afraid of it ?
fluanxol-was given it to try but didnt take it cus i was also afraid of that too
zispin/remeron- was on for nearly 2 yrs was gr8 for anxiety it slowed me down somewhat from being hyper to kind of mellow started to poop out on me was gonna change dose frm 30-60 BUT i then found out they changed to soltab i started soltab BUT i started having nightmares and my depression gotreally bad...
valium- sort of ok i suppose but i still can get very anxious wheni am on it (they wont give nothing else here in the uk well in my town anyways)
I HAVE NO BEEN DX WITH ANXIETY/PANICK DISORDER AND DEPRESSION
SO i stopped all meds alltogether been med free for 3 mnths but i am a nervous wreck, i am so depressed got no motivation ... and am afraid of taking any meds cus of what they are gona do to me, i feel like my mind is dying, is t his normal for depression? i dont get excited no more not even hyper like i used to chat like a chatterbox on and on and on i used to do peoples heads in NOW i am like hi then walk past sometimes i cant be bothered to say hi i just like smile maybe, i used to wait for my freind to walk to school with in the morning (mydaughter for school) but i dont anymore.. i hate picking my daughter up as soon as i get to the school my heart is like palpitaing and i feel all week and dizzy as if i am gonna pass out :-S I have had loads of tests theres nowt wrong with me and cus i cant focus my anxiety on anything around me or my hrt or my leg or wat eva its all going to my mind.. and thats wat is scaring me.. will meds be the answer? i am losing hope and control of everything i cant focus concentrate nothing.. anyone else? is there hope? is there a med? plse advice
thankyou
Posted by ed_uk on November 12, 2004, at 8:32:51
In reply to Re: I cant't cope, posted by crazychickuk on November 12, 2004, at 7:31:59
Hello it's ed!
Hope you don't mind if I ask a few questions :-) You'll have to keep looking back at my message when you answer!! I know it's annoying being asked all these questions but I can't help you unless I know more about you.
Did you ever experience severe anxiety before you took your first psychiatric med? Were you initially treated for anxiety or depression?
Which medications have you taken recently, how long did you take them for? Which med were you taking three months ago? Did you experience any withdrawal symptoms when you stopped?
Did you take 60mg Zispin SolTab or 30mg?
How much Effexor did you take when you abused it? What effect did it have at high doses?
Ed
Posted by crazychickuk on November 12, 2004, at 8:38:26
In reply to Re: Help for Crazychickuk, posted by ed_uk on November 12, 2004, at 8:32:51
Hello it's ed!
Hope you don't mind if I ask a few questions :-) You'll have to keep looking back at my message when you answer!! I know it's annoying being asked all these questions but I can't help you unless I know more about you.
Did you ever experience severe anxiety before you took your first psychiatric med? Were you initially treated for anxiety or depression?
# (4 yrs ago)NO i didnt experience any anxiety at all before taking meds just mild depression from having my daughter and was given effexor 35.7 mg i abused it by taking about 5 of them in one night ..then got severe anxiety ...
Which medications have you taken recently, how long did you take them for? Which med were you taking three months ago? Did you experience any withdrawal symptoms when you stopped?
# was on remeron for nearly 2 yrs had to stop as they changed from tab to soltab and i didnt get on with them, i stopped right there np withdrawls till like 2 weeks later and still suffering now nearly 4 mnths on..
Did you take 60mg Zispin SolTab or 30mg?
#30mg of normal tablet and i tryed 15mg soltab and 30mg .... bad nightmares as awfull
How much Effexor did you take when you abused it? What effect did it have at high doses?
# 35.7 i took 5 felt very high ..
Ed
#thanks Donna
Posted by ed_uk on November 12, 2004, at 8:56:39
In reply to Re: Help for Crazychickuk, posted by crazychickuk on November 12, 2004, at 8:38:26
Hello Donna,
I think it's possible that some of the symptoms you're experiencing could be withdrawal symptoms from Zispin.
You say your anxiety was well controlled on the Zispin. Did you have any anxiety at all when you were taking the Zispin? Did you ever have any nightmares before you went on to the SolTabs? Did the Zispin help with your depression?
I think you might benefit from trying Mianserin. Mianserin is an old antidepressant which is very similar to Zispin. It comes as standard tablets (not SolTabs!) and the usual dose for depression and anxiety is 30 to 90 mg a day. If your current anxiety is due to Zispin withdrawal, it would probably improve if you took Mianserin. Because you can get mianserin in 10mg tablets, you can reduce the dose very gradually when you want to come off it.
What do you think?
Ed
Posted by crazychickuk on November 12, 2004, at 9:00:12
In reply to Re: Help for Crazychickuk, posted by ed_uk on November 12, 2004, at 8:56:39
Hello Donna,
I think it's possible that some of the symptoms you're experiencing could be withdrawal symptoms from Zispin.
You say your anxiety was well controlled on the Zispin. Did you have any anxiety at all when you were taking the Zispin? Did you ever have any nightmares before you went on to the SolTabs? Did the Zispin help with your depression?
# I still had anxiety and panick attacks yes but atleast i could still go out etc and wasnt so edgy.. i am very depressed now, i started to get depressed within the last mnth on zispin .. my nightmares started when i started the soltab .. this has happened to many other users of this drug so my doctor told me.. I wasnt depressed was just anxiety..
I think you might benefit from trying Mianserin. Mianserin is an old antidepressant which is very similar to Zispin. It comes as standard tablets (not SolTabs!) and the usual dose for depression and anxiety is 30 to 90 mg a day. If your current anxiety is due to Zispin withdrawal, it would probably improve if you took Mianserin. Because you can get mianserin in 10mg tablets, you can reduce the dose very gradually when you want to come off it.
What do you think?
# I dont know i am pretty scared how exactly is it the same as zispin? I think i need an upper such an snri like effexor again i am not sure or maybe flunoxol ? i dunno.. i am confused and scared..
Posted by dove on November 12, 2004, at 9:05:46
In reply to Re: Help for Crazychickuk, posted by crazychickuk on November 12, 2004, at 8:38:26
Klonopin (or Xanax) for the panic attacks and anxiety that you know and expect (going outside with daughter, going to school). Getting rid of the severe anxiety and panic symptoms would probably enable you to deal with the depression and find a better med and better therapist.
Verapamil (calcium channel blocker) is a very good med for keeping heart-rate in a healthy range and can have a very positive effect on depression.
You need to reach out for help before you feel totally overwhelmed by just trying to exist. Remeron in liquid form is something to consider. I found that Amitriptyline (a sedating TCA) had a very similar effect as Remeron in my body, although the Amitriptyline was a more powerful antidepressant and worked better on my anxiety.
Just some thoughts... We're pulling for you!
dove
Posted by ed_uk on November 12, 2004, at 9:28:44
In reply to Re: Help for Crazychickuk, posted by dove on November 12, 2004, at 9:05:46
Hi again,
Did you get withdrawal symptoms from the Effexor or any of the SSRIs you took?
Some people are very sensitive to the SSRIs and suffer severe anxiety on standard doses. I saw a case report about a man who became psychotic on the standard 20 mg/day of Prozac but later benefited from taking a very small dose.
How do you feel about trying a very small dose of an SSRI or Effexor.
Ed
Posted by Tom G on November 12, 2004, at 10:26:22
In reply to Re: Help for Crazychickuk, posted by ed_uk on November 12, 2004, at 9:28:44
I've been reading your posts for quite some time and I don't see how you expect to get well when a doctor has instructed you to at least try a medication and you will not. I see you on here each week saying that you can't cope and people give you excellent advice and med options, but you will not try the medicine that your doctor gave you. Your anxiety and heart complications etc. stem from the fear of the side effects of the medications. A qualified doctor obviously thinks you need a medication. You have to try it or try therapy or hope that it is going to get better on it's own (something I wouldn't suggest). Many people need a medication to decrease symptoms just to be able to go to therapy and recieve benefit. It is possible that people can have increased anxiety etc. from SSRIs, Effexor, and the like, but they can also eliminate anxiety completely. So I'll make one attempt at telling you what I think you should do. I know you're not psychotic, but antipsychotics have a much lower incidence of increasing anxiety. Try one. I would suggest low dose Seroquel or Zyprexa. It could also eliminate the obsessions your having about your heart etc. etc. I take low dose Geodon and it virtually has eliminated all my anxiety, but it does have a QT prolongation warning so I would save that for last just in case you have legitimate heart complications. Maybe get a new doctor if you're able and TAKE YOUR MEDS!
Posted by ed_uk on November 12, 2004, at 10:59:40
In reply to Re: Help for Crazychickuk, posted by Tom G on November 12, 2004, at 10:26:22
Hello...
I know you've had a bad experience with the SSRIs before but you might benefit from taking a really low dose. Standard doses are much too high for some people and can cause a lot of side effects. (Personally, I've always had to take massive doses of SSRIs to relieve anxiety but that's not really relevent to you so I'm not sure why I mentioned it!)
In the UK we've got Cipramil Oral Drops and Seroxat liquid......
Cipramil Oral Drops contain only 2mg citalopram per drop, this allows you to take a very small dose if that's what's best for you. The drops are also useful for reducing the dose gradually if you need to withdraw.
Seroxat Liquid contains 10mg paroxetine per 5ml. You can use an 'oral syringe' to measure out doses as low as 1 mg.
One of the problems with Effexor is that it's difficult to measure out low doses because it's not available in liquid form, this makes gradual withdrawal difficult- the smallest tablet is 37.5 mg.
All the best...
Ed.PS. I don't know whether liquid Effexor is available in other countries but it's certainly not marketed here!
Posted by crazychickuk on November 12, 2004, at 11:48:21
In reply to Re: Help for Crazychickuk, posted by ed_uk on November 12, 2004, at 10:59:40
Thanks for the reply's i was on the smallest dose of the ssri's ... cant get hold of any other benzos apart from valium and i have to beg for that .. I DO NEED MEDS but am afraid whats left?
effexor again or wat?
Posted by crazychickuk on November 12, 2004, at 11:54:10
In reply to Re: Help for Crazychickuk, posted by ed_uk on November 12, 2004, at 10:59:40
PLse rack ur brains read my first post plse plse ... wat would u do if u were me?
Posted by Tom G on November 12, 2004, at 11:58:07
In reply to Re: Guys i cant do this without u all ............, posted by crazychickuk on November 12, 2004, at 11:54:10
Have you totally disreguarded my suggestion of a low dose antipsychotic already. You have gotten loads of suggestions from other people too.
Posted by crazychickuk on November 12, 2004, at 12:03:05
In reply to Re: Guys i cant do this without u all ............, posted by Tom G on November 12, 2004, at 11:58:07
doctors in the uk especially at my sergery are ded against antiphycotics for mental health unless given by a physciatrist and they only give it to skitsophrenias ... (sp) and i dont se e a physc i only ever seen her 2 times i am with the nhs if i have to go see her again i will have to wait atleast 6 mnths and i cant go private cus they are to far away and to expensive ..
Posted by Tom G on November 12, 2004, at 12:11:59
In reply to Re: Help for Crazychickuk, posted by crazychickuk on November 12, 2004, at 11:48:21
Effexor is what your doctor gave you. Don't let it sit there. TAKE IT!
Posted by crazychickuk on November 12, 2004, at 12:16:31
In reply to Re: Help for Crazychickuk, posted by Tom G on November 12, 2004, at 12:11:59
Ok this has been bothering me.. i took effexor when i was mildy depresed from baby blues (after having my daughter) and afte i abused it thats when my anxiety started i never had this before that drug.. anyways thats put me of taking it again i am like wat if it makes me worse again, and the second reason was cus i said to my gp my actual family gp i have been under all my life (24yrs) that i wanted this med to try again i was obsessed with it obsessed that it would reverse everythign and take me out this black hole,. he really didnt want to give it to me, he read my notes and seen that i asked for this of my physc w hen i saw her mnths and mnths ago and she wrote not a good idea so he said no but i was like grrrrrr so he gave it to me to try and told me to start taking half of the small dose 35.7 half a tab.. i came home and was sat there thinking about all this and never took it.. still in the cupboard .. i think i am just very anxious to take it.. i know i need it i know i need something but i also know its safe it aint gonna kill me it will just make me more anxious if i am anxious taking it ya know !!
Posted by Racer on November 12, 2004, at 12:53:36
In reply to Re: Guys i cant do this without u all ............, posted by crazychickuk on November 12, 2004, at 12:03:05
Donna, you've posted this sort of question how many times? How many answers have you gotten? How much of the advice given in those answers have you followed? Have you followed your doctor's advice?
Here's the bottom line, Donna:
If you won't take the medications prescribed for you, then there are no medications that will help you. So far, no one has invented a medication that can help you from the inside of a cabinet -- they actually need to be administered to a patient in order to have any effect.
Let's talk about Effexor, just for a minute, 'K? Why did it cause you anxiety and panic attacks? Taken as directed, it helped you. Taken irresponsibly -- that's drug abuse, even if it is a prescription drug -- it caused you problems. What do you think? Do you think there's a chance that, taken as directed, this medication which helped you before and is now in your cupboard, might help you again?
****************************************
Now, Donna, you know if you've been paying attention, that I've just finished a year of medical abuse, during which I got to hypersensitive that I couldn't tolerate ANY medication, either. The slightest problem sent me over the edge, and the only response I could get if I called Doctor EyeCandy (hey, I still like typing that name, 'K?) was either "keep taking it as directed" or -- most commonly -- "if you don't like it, stop taking it." I think I managed about three days worth of most drugs, with a full eight days of absolute hell for myself and my husband on Remeron. Believe me, I understand your reluctance to take meds that might cause more problems for you. I just went through that myself.
So, how come I'm still on Cymbalta? Especially considering the problems I had on it at first?
1. I know that I need to be medicated, and that the only way to get stabilized is to TAKE THE MEDICATION.
2. I got good advice -- basically the same advice you've been getting here on this board -- from some very good people. Chemist in particular was a rock for me, and kept after me to give Cymbalta an adequate trial. He reminded me -- too many times, because I couldn't quite get my mind around this -- that I was so hypersensitive at that point that a Flintstones Vitamin would have sent me over the edge. Once the medication started to kick in, and the adjustment phase effects started to pass, I could safely say that it was well worth making the effort to stay on it.
3. I reminded myself that it wasn't All-Or-Nothing: I could take the medication today, and if it was still awful, I could always stop tomorrow. That way, I'd only have to put up with one day of it. Reminding myself of that every day kept me going.
So, Donna, what are you going to do? You're the only one who can make the decision, and if you aren't willing to take any medications then there's no point in asking which one to take. If you want to find a medication that will work for you, you'll have to take one -- and take it for a while to see if it will work for you.
I do wish you the best, Donna, but I also have to say that it's a little frustrating and a little painful to answer your same question several times and still have you asking again. The answers really won't change.
Good luck.
Posted by crazychickuk on November 12, 2004, at 18:22:19
In reply to Straight talk -- ignore it or accept it » crazychickuk, posted by Racer on November 12, 2004, at 12:53:36
THANKYOU i will go to doc on monday and have my bp taken and a chat and i will start a new med thst night.. doubt it will be effexor... i will post monday night.. thanks for being here guys u r all i got,,,
p.s .. viewing my first post and the meds i have taken hasanyone got any ideas of what i can ask for? another family of drugs i havent had yet? i doubt my doc will give me an ap cus only physcs aloud to give them out to skitsophrenias .they r very strict round here ... BUT i did have a prescription of flunaxol from my physc last yr which i never took..
Posted by Slinky on November 12, 2004, at 18:39:33
In reply to Re: Guys i cant do this without u all ............, posted by crazychickuk on November 12, 2004, at 12:03:05
Hi CC
They use antipsychotics now for depression/anxiety..but I live in London..I've tried two..
Posted by Tom G on November 12, 2004, at 21:14:10
In reply to Re: Guys i cant do this without u all ............ » crazychickuk, posted by Slinky on November 12, 2004, at 18:39:33
If that is the case and you can get antipsychotics in the UK like the previous poster said for off label uses I think you should go that route. If your doctor will not go down this road you need to find a new doctor that will. Antipsychotics can stop anxiety and depression dead in it's tracks in a matter of minutes in some instances. They are way powerful medicines that can have amazing results many times with few side effects. Again I say start with very low dose Zyprexa maybe half of 2.5mg.
Posted by sLINKY on November 12, 2004, at 22:06:02
In reply to Re: Guys i cant do this without u all ............, posted by Tom G on November 12, 2004, at 21:14:10
CC
If you have had an appointment in the past with a consultant psychiatrist( who deals with med issues only) he/she can prescribe off label drugs ..I take gabapentin for anxiety / slight mood levelling...I asked for it..luckily my pdoc gave it a go ...just have to play the nice quiet patient : )
No med is a magic pill ..usually only get partial response so I hope you'll find the right combination
CBT could be great for you ..just take your meds while you wait on the waiting list.
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