![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 7035 to 7059 of 10407. Go back in thread:
Posted by starlight on July 27, 2004, at 12:14:01
In reply to pretty scared of venlafaxine! ? carriejane, posted by pablo1 on July 26, 2004, at 16:29:27
I personally would stay away from Prozac because of the weight gain effect, but I'm hypersensitive to weight gain having had an eating disorder in the past. I do recommend wellbutrin, but think it's important to watch out for the agitation that it can cause. So far out of all the ones I've tried (wellbutrin, zoloft & effexor) I've liked effexor the best. I loved zoloft, but the weight gain was too much to bear. To me, effexor has the anxiety reducing qualities of zoloft, but without the nasty side effects.
starlight
Posted by Camille Dumont on July 27, 2004, at 14:32:13
In reply to Effexor and Alcoholism, posted by Rockson on July 27, 2004, at 11:59:17
Thats an interesting question. From what I understand alcohol is a "depressant" so it tends to be rather counterproductive when taking AD medication ... but then again, if it makes you less depressed and maybe give you less of a reason to drink then maybe its a good idea.
My sense is that you would feel even better if you didn,t drink as the meds wil have the opportunity to act unhindered ... but I would talk about it with your doctor and see what he recommends.
Posted by lorily on July 27, 2004, at 14:42:26
In reply to Effexor and Alcoholism, posted by Rockson on July 27, 2004, at 11:59:17
Rockson, I strongly recommend that you stop drinking. Are you taking this medication for depression? If so, why are you taking a depressant? alcohol. The drive to drink is not going to just go away on its own. Trust me, if you are able to stop and your life improves and you work a program of recovery, you will never honestly be able to come up with one good reason TO drink. I'm an alcoholic in recovery, I've had many excuses to drink, they were not reasons. Unless you consider the desire to slowly kill myself and sink deeper into depression a reason, then yeah, sure I guess I did have a reason.
It's extremely dangerous to mix the meds with alcohol. Just imagine how good you would feel if you weren't screwing up what good the effexor is doing for you? I doubt you would have had to increase the dosage.
Good luck to you!!!!
Posted by lorily on July 27, 2004, at 14:53:40
In reply to Re: pretty scared of venlafaxine!, posted by starlight on July 27, 2004, at 12:07:52
Women can take Viagra, too! Yes, it works.
Posted by pablo1 on July 27, 2004, at 15:27:23
In reply to Re: Effexor and Alcoholism » Rockson, posted by lorily on July 27, 2004, at 14:42:26
I had some diminishing of the desire to drink when I started effexor but it didn't last. It almost felt like the effexor sedated me some and that acted as a replacement but as I said, it didn't last. It is supposed to be true that getting the proper medication will help you not to want to self medicate. It's also true I'm sure that the drinking interferes with the medications working properly to some degree.
I guess what the other responses were saying is to go ahead and quit drinking and let the meds do their thing and that it is not possible to diminish the desire to drink. I'm not sure about that. It just came off as a moralistic lecture to me. Sorry I don't intend to attack them for that, these are simply my feelings.
BTW I can quit drinking without major withdrawl, just uncomfortable for a couple days... but I don't 'feel good' so I drink again. So it makes more sense to me that I need to find a way to feel good in order to stop drinking. Being sober doesn't make me feel good. I'm still missing something. Yes drinking makes things worse also and is obviously not a very good med but it works and that's why I do it. I'm looking for other options but until I find something that helps, it's awfully hard to give up and just feel crappy. Effexor helped some but not enough for me to tolerate the side effects for me. So far I'm willing to put up with the side effects of alcohol.
Some people get extremely addicted to alcohol abusing it in enormous quantities and behaving very badly. I don't think that's the case for you or I though Rockson.
So my answer to your question is that no I don't think you should take or increase effexor to limit the urge to drink but rather take it if it works on your symptoms. I think when you find something that works then you can stop drinking comfortably. Obviously cutting back some would be helpful.
I disagree that alcohol is dangerous with SSRI's. That's just scare tactics and simply isn't true. All medications will warn that it's unwise to drink with them but hell, it's unwise to drink alone so that doesn't really mean anything.
Posted by carriejane on July 28, 2004, at 8:29:25
In reply to Re: pretty scared of venlafaxine!, posted by lorily on July 27, 2004, at 14:53:40
> Women can take Viagra, too! Yes, it works.
Really? I took half a viagra once and felt nothing. Will doctors prescribe them for women?
Posted by lorily on July 28, 2004, at 8:54:33
In reply to Re: pretty scared of venlafaxine!, posted by carriejane on July 28, 2004, at 8:29:25
Carriejane,
Yes, well, my doctor prescribed it when I questioned her about trying that aid they advertise on TV for women. When you read the package insert it does explain that you may not feel results the first time, but not to be discouranged. The doctor told me take 1/2, nothing twice then I took a whole one. I have low blood pressure in comparison to the norm, and viagra was originally meant to be a med for high blood pressure!!! So, when I took it I did feel a bit light-headed. (Imagine that, hey doc, I don't know about the high blood pressure part, but guess what I can do again?!!) lol
What the viagra does is simply increase the flow of blood to the genital area, causing us to become more sensitive, as the doc put it, "like when we were teenagers" My problem wasn't lack of desire, it was lack of response. it says it will work about 20 mins after taking it and last 4 hours. For me, it's between 1/2 to 1-1/2 hours window of effectiveness,
Try again and good luck.
Posted by lorily on July 28, 2004, at 9:11:29
In reply to Re: Effexor and Alcoholism, posted by pablo1 on July 27, 2004, at 15:27:23
I'm not going to preach to anyone on whether or not they are alcoholics--that's their decision to make. All I can do is share that I am an alcoholic, I suffer from depression and I've done years of suffering the alcoholic life. If someone asks a question about alcohol effecting their lifes, you better believe I'm going give my knowledge as food for thought and maybe save someone from going through the HELL i've been through and perhaps save their life in the long run. (Or short) Bottom line is if you think you have a problem with alcohol, you probably do. That's taken from the book of Alcoholic Anonymous.
Anyway, Alcohol is a depressant. It is a drug. If you are taking more than one drug--they usually effect the way the other works. In the case of alcohol THIS IS ALWAYS TRUE. Anyone who has been through trial and error with their meds knows that sometimes it takes certain combinations of meds to work for them. When I was taking depakote, I was strongly advised NOT TO TAKE ANY OVER THE COUNTER MEDS WITHOUT CONSULTING WITH A DOCTOR. I WAS NOT ALLOWED TO TAKE DECONGESTANTS!!!!!!!!!!!! because they don't work right with the med I was taking.
If you're trying to get your life on track and feel better, there is no cure with alcohol. There is no doctor in the world that would ever prescribe alcohol for mental problems.
And yes, taking an anti-depressant and a depressant defeats the purpose. Of course in my using days I would never utter those words. Upper and downer combos were the best. Some people I know LOVED and HAD to shoot coke and dope. If your motive is to get high--stop lying to yourself and trying to justify it JUST GO GET HIGH. If you're sick and want help, just admit it get help.
Posted by pablo1 on July 28, 2004, at 9:48:24
In reply to Re: Effexor and Alcoholism, posted by lorily on July 28, 2004, at 9:11:29
Doctors do sometimes recommend (or approve of) a drink in the evening for anxiety. Alcohol is a good drug in moderation. I know it's bad in excess.
Yes I like to get high. Ideally I could do that without drugs, or at least with less harmful drugs. Alcohol is better than pot because it doesn't make me a space cadet and doesn't stay in my body for weeks. Lots of these psychiatric. medications do get you stoned and that's a fact. Something people dance around and try not to admit in our puritanical culture.
Self medicating is a real phenomenon. Lots of people take drugs to feel better and successfully alleviate the unpleasant workings of a troubled mind. At least for a while it takes away the nasties and can make you feel 'normal'. Sometimes I drink heavily and it's just simply relaxing and lets me think at a comfortable pace, not necessarily sloppy drunk. I've tried other depressants and stimulants and they don't do much for me. So it's not just that I like to have my mind jumbled by drugs but there are real benefits from some. I'm aware that alcohol has some major drawbacks also. I've seen my best friend destroyed by drinking and meth. Now he's in AA & I really feel he's like a brainwashed person and don't care for that but it's certainly better than before... but not a direction I'd like to follow.
I've also seen people that drink and get by OK. I'd really rather not drink so much. I'd rather find a better answer. Alcohol is not that great but it works on a certain level.
Posted by lorily on July 28, 2004, at 10:45:49
In reply to Re: Effexor and Alcoholism » lorily, posted by pablo1 on July 28, 2004, at 9:48:24
Pablo, do you have any other outlets that give you a "feel good"?
When I was depressed and drank for it, it was to get numb because I was sooooo sick of feeling the way I was. At that time I wasn't taking ADs. It never turned off the pain, just got me deeper. I drank for so many different so-called reasons, it's hard to exxplain.
I know what you're saying about the AA thing. But, that's the individual, not the program of AA. True AA is following the principles as outlined in the book, Alcoholics Anonymous. The fellowship is a great thing for some, many get so involved they use it as their drink or drug. They really make it their life and for some in the beginning-it works for them. When I was unemployable, 20 thousand meetings back to back was safer for me than sitting home poisoning myself. I go to 1 or 2 meetings a week, have people in the program I talk with and my life is good. I've worked the steps as outlined in the book and it has freed me, after years of making fun of those "big-book thumpers" it really does work. You work the steps to take a look at yourself, get rid of your resentments, stop carrying around all that self-inflicted pain, and get the heck on with your life. I'm not an extremist with AA, but I live by the principles of the program. The book was written back in 1935 because Bill Wilson saw what people were doing with the message. They were turning all the principles to fit their own needs et cetera and spreading the word incorrectly. So, the book was written as a concrete text to show how it works. I recently read someone's quote about success rate of people using the book compared with people using the fellowship, which maybe your friend is doing--is a great difference. Either way, your friend is sober and living the life he chooses without dependancy and destruction by a bottle.
If you want to stop drinking, take a good look at why you drink, why you feel you can't stop and take steps to change that. It's a very simple beginning. I wish I could get high the way I used to--it was fun. Then it turned to utter hell and I don't wish that on my worst enemy (which I really don't have any, but you know what I mean--maybe if someone killed someone I loved, something like that I'd wish something like that.)
Sure a drink or two to reduce anxiety for normal people is one thing, not 4-5 or more every single night when you're taking meds. or not.
Good luck Pablo, I hope you get your answers.
Posted by carriejane on July 28, 2004, at 11:01:39
In reply to Re: pretty scared of venlafaxine! » carriejane, posted by lorily on July 28, 2004, at 8:54:33
> Carriejane,
> Yes, well, my doctor prescribed it when I questioned her about trying that aid they advertise on TV for women. When you read the package insert it does explain that you may not feel results the first time, but not to be discouranged. The doctor told me take 1/2, nothing twice then I took a whole one. I have low blood pressure in comparison to the norm, and viagra was originally meant to be a med for high blood pressure!!! So, when I took it I did feel a bit light-headed. (Imagine that, hey doc, I don't know about the high blood pressure part, but guess what I can do again?!!) lol
> What the viagra does is simply increase the flow of blood to the genital area, causing us to become more sensitive, as the doc put it, "like when we were teenagers" My problem wasn't lack of desire, it was lack of response. it says it will work about 20 mins after taking it and last 4 hours. For me, it's between 1/2 to 1-1/2 hours window of effectiveness,
> Try again and good luck.thanks Lorily, are you in the usa? I think i may not get it over here in uk. I will ask though, and were u takin the effexor also while takin viagra?
Posted by carriejane on July 28, 2004, at 11:08:46
In reply to Re: Effexor and Alcoholism, posted by lorily on July 28, 2004, at 9:11:29
> I'm not going to preach to anyone on whether or not they are alcoholics--that's their decision to make. All I can do is share that I am an alcoholic, I suffer from depression and I've done years of suffering the alcoholic life. If someone asks a question about alcohol effecting their lifes, you better believe I'm going give my knowledge as food for thought and maybe save someone from going through the HELL i've been through and perhaps save their life in the long run. (Or short) Bottom line is if you think you have a problem with alcohol, you probably do. That's taken from the book of Alcoholic Anonymous.
> Anyway, Alcohol is a depressant. It is a drug. If you are taking more than one drug--they usually effect the way the other works. In the case of alcohol THIS IS ALWAYS TRUE. Anyone who has been through trial and error with their meds knows that sometimes it takes certain combinations of meds to work for them. When I was taking depakote, I was strongly advised NOT TO TAKE ANY OVER THE COUNTER MEDS WITHOUT CONSULTING WITH A DOCTOR. I WAS NOT ALLOWED TO TAKE DECONGESTANTS!!!!!!!!!!!! because they don't work right with the med I was taking.
> If you're trying to get your life on track and feel better, there is no cure with alcohol. There is no doctor in the world that would ever prescribe alcohol for mental problems.
> And yes, taking an anti-depressant and a depressant defeats the purpose. Of course in my using days I would never utter those words. Upper and downer combos were the best. Some people I know LOVED and HAD to shoot coke and dope. If your motive is to get high--stop lying to yourself and trying to justify it JUST GO GET HIGH. If you're sick and want help, just admit it get help.
>
> Youre spot on, although im sitting here with a beer in my hand. I got off heroine over 4 yrs ago and thats when my depression came to light. Trying not to drink too much, as i started again at xmas.
>
Posted by pablo1 on July 28, 2004, at 11:13:13
In reply to Re: Effexor and Alcoholism (nm), posted by pablo1 on July 28, 2004, at 11:12:29
OK thanks for your thoughts, glad we averted a nasty flame war there.
: - )
I do have some other feel-good outlets but they are rather fleeting in a sea of mediocre discomfort. Maybe it's bad to get seduced by the euphoria of drugs as it's not easily matched by real life but if I could just get rid of that nagging mediocrity of regular life I think that'd be adequate. I need the drink to have *some* pleasure in life.
Effexor relaxed me and that was nice to feel for a while but I was not able to pursue anything inspiring. Quitting effexor, I was able to feel good again, enjoying music, etc. Oh well, I keep plugging away... I'm working on it.
Posted by geekgirl on July 28, 2004, at 16:32:33
In reply to Re: Efferox side effects - motivation, posted by LynnM. on July 1, 2004, at 18:05:34
I have been on Effexor since spring 2003. I started at 75mg and last winter I went up to 150mg. The reason the doctor upped my dosage was that I was exhausted all the time.
I don't think it has helped the exhaustion much, I think the sun did that.
I am still on Effexor and may be coming out of the not caring mode a bit. I think that I might have been feeling that way because Effexor is so good at reducing Anxiety. If I have been used to being incredibly anxious over everything, maybe I was using that to motivate myself. So Effexor could have caused a motivation vacuum. Since I've been working with this theory I've been trying to find new ways to motivate myself other than anxious worry and guilt. It seems to be working...
Posted by cirrus6000 on July 28, 2004, at 23:24:56
In reply to Re: Effexor and Alcoholism, posted by lorily on July 28, 2004, at 9:11:29
Hi my name is James and I am a recovering alcoholic/addict.If you are an alcoholic or an addict(like myself) then you should try Alcoholics Anonymous. Only you can tell if you need help but I would go to a meeting and see what it is all about. btw where are you from if you are anywhere near forest park illinois i will take you to a meeting myself
Posted by eastbay on July 29, 2004, at 22:31:01
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
I just wanted to say that I'm very content with my experience thus far with Effexor XR. I had been suffering with chronic depression for 6+ years, compounded by lifelong seasonal depression in the fall/winter. Tried Zoloft and Wellbutrin with limited success. Something was still missing. Effexor XR had whatever it was. I've now been on 150mg daily for a year, and feel about 80-85 % of the way I used to remember feeling before my troubles. I wanted to wait until summer when I would normally be my best before seeking another doseage increase, which I just got today. So, now 225mg day.
As far as side effects, I did experience some, most of which have dissapated over the duration of treatment, but some did take a while to go away.
Severe nightsweats were common.
It took the digestive system a while to stabilize, but is better now than it has been in years as far as knowing what to expect when its time for things to exit, lol.
I did/do experience sexual side effects of difficulty in reaching orgasm. No loss of desire, or in gaining erection it was solely in being able to reach orgasm, which is because part of an orgasm involves the flushing and re-uptake of seratonin, which is exactly what we are inhibiting. Viagra was able to eliminate the problem there.
I do find I sleep an average of 4 hours a night, no matter when I adjust my dosing period to. But I do not wake up feeling like I need sleep. I've found the best time for me to dose is immediately before bed, which assists with me being able to get to sleep right when I lay down, as my dose for the day is pretty much spent by then.I travel on business and have forgotten to take it with me a couple times, and I would say that the effects of not having it become pretty bad at day three. Nervousness, dizzyness, poor thinking/judgement.
The best way for me to describe what it feels like for me personally, being on Effexor, is like being on top of a lake with a floatation safety device on. It's not impossible for you to get under water, but it takes a lot of focus and work to make it happen.
So, when I want to think deeply, I can get there just fine, but, I'm not going to be staying down there if I start. You "head back to surface" when you are done.
I personally would recommend it to anyone who is unhappy with their other treatments as treating two separate neurotransmitters seems to have made a big difference for me.
Posted by Sad Panda on July 30, 2004, at 10:21:03
In reply to Been on Effexor XR for 1 year now, posted by eastbay on July 29, 2004, at 22:31:01
> I just wanted to say that I'm very content with my experience thus far with Effexor XR. I had been suffering with chronic depression for 6+ years, compounded by lifelong seasonal depression in the fall/winter. Tried Zoloft and Wellbutrin with limited success. Something was still missing. Effexor XR had whatever it was. I've now been on 150mg daily for a year, and feel about 80-85 % of the way I used to remember feeling before my troubles. I wanted to wait until summer when I would normally be my best before seeking another doseage increase, which I just got today. So, now 225mg day.
>
> As far as side effects, I did experience some, most of which have dissapated over the duration of treatment, but some did take a while to go away.
>
> Severe nightsweats were common.
> It took the digestive system a while to stabilize, but is better now than it has been in years as far as knowing what to expect when its time for things to exit, lol.
> I did/do experience sexual side effects of difficulty in reaching orgasm. No loss of desire, or in gaining erection it was solely in being able to reach orgasm, which is because part of an orgasm involves the flushing and re-uptake of seratonin, which is exactly what we are inhibiting. Viagra was able to eliminate the problem there.
> I do find I sleep an average of 4 hours a night, no matter when I adjust my dosing period to. But I do not wake up feeling like I need sleep. I've found the best time for me to dose is immediately before bed, which assists with me being able to get to sleep right when I lay down, as my dose for the day is pretty much spent by then.
>
> I travel on business and have forgotten to take it with me a couple times, and I would say that the effects of not having it become pretty bad at day three. Nervousness, dizzyness, poor thinking/judgement.
>
> The best way for me to describe what it feels like for me personally, being on Effexor, is like being on top of a lake with a floatation safety device on. It's not impossible for you to get under water, but it takes a lot of focus and work to make it happen.
>
> So, when I want to think deeply, I can get there just fine, but, I'm not going to be staying down there if I start. You "head back to surface" when you are done.
>
> I personally would recommend it to anyone who is unhappy with their other treatments as treating two separate neurotransmitters seems to have made a big difference for me.
>
>Effexor works for me too. I am pleased that it hasn't altered my feelings or cognitive ability at all. I have the same side effects, but I found that Remeron is great to combine with it as it eliminates the side effects.(Insomnia, Nausea, Anorgasmia & probably night sweats too.)
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by Rockson on July 31, 2004, at 14:41:23
In reply to Re: Effexor and Alcoholism, posted by cirrus6000 on July 28, 2004, at 23:24:56
Hi, I'm not sure if this will appear on the board. I've replied to a couple of the messages, and I'm not sure why they haven't appeared on the board... hmmm... Thanks for your comments, James. I live in Canada, but it's kind of you to make the offer. I'm thinking that I need to find a new approach - perhaps AA might be helpful. Btw, are you using any pharma therapy with your recovery?
> Hi my name is James and I am a recovering alcoholic/addict.If you are an alcoholic or an addict(like myself) then you should try Alcoholics Anonymous. Only you can tell if you need help but I would go to a meeting and see what it is all about. btw where are you from if you are anywhere near forest park illinois i will take you to a meeting myself
Posted by lorily on July 31, 2004, at 19:11:47
In reply to Re: Effexor and Alcoholism, posted by Rockson on July 31, 2004, at 14:41:23
Cirrus, Are you confirming your post?
Good Luck
Posted by lorily on July 31, 2004, at 19:24:19
In reply to Re: pretty scared of venlafaxine!, posted by carriejane on July 28, 2004, at 11:01:39
Yes, I'm in the US, and yes I was on effexor and depakote and trazadone when I used the viagra.
Posted by cirrus6000 on July 31, 2004, at 23:25:56
In reply to Re: Effexor and Alcoholism » Rockson, posted by lorily on July 31, 2004, at 19:11:47
> Cirrus, Are you confirming your post?
> Good LuckPlease explain what you mean by "confirming my post?"
Thanks
Posted by pablo1 on July 31, 2004, at 23:51:32
In reply to Re: Effexor and Alcoholism, posted by cirrus6000 on July 31, 2004, at 23:25:56
This board is a bit odd that you post, then it simply shows a preview and you have to hit the submit button again (or edit further).
Also, I found myself checking the boxes to notify by email, etc. & the last one is to just post the title & erase the message. Be careful not to check that last one.
>> Cirrus, Are you confirming your post?
>> Good Luck>Please explain what you mean by "confirming my >post?"
Posted by chaoz on August 2, 2004, at 1:08:46
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
Question,3 years ago was on paxel
for bad panic attacks.and xanax,
after about 2 years i stopped taking everthing and was fine for little over a year and Bam it came back.Doc wants me to try the Effexor
after reading alot of posts here i have second thoughts.anyone have good luck with any med for mostly just nasty panic attacks and anxity
If it where up to me i would just use xanax as it works great.but doc and wife say its no fix just a mask to the problem
Thanks for any input.
Posted by lorily on August 2, 2004, at 3:33:44
In reply to Panic/anxity, posted by chaoz on August 2, 2004, at 1:08:46
Alot of people here seem to have great success with effexor. Cymbalta I here works the same way, without the side effects, but it's not available in the US yet. I have to agree with your doctor and wife on the Xanax. It's a highly addictive drug. I'm in recovery and know plenty of people who curse the doctors who put them on it, they cannot get off. I also know people in AA who use xanax to get high since they're supposedly "sober" they use it as a substitute. I would stay away
Posted by Alesa on August 3, 2004, at 13:14:02
In reply to Re: afraid to take effexor/bad experience w/paxil, posted by Cindy W on April 10, 2000, at 21:52:43
For anyone who is afraid to take meds now because of a bad experience with Paxil, I have had the same experience. I took Paxil once, and instantly had terrible side effects. I couldn't sleep, I shook like crazy, my jaw was tense and trembling, my muscles kept seizing, I couldn't sleep, had nausea, and severe panic attacks. I felt like I was being poisoned. After three days of that torture, I went off of it.
Ever since, I had been very reluctant to try anything. But then my mother died, and my depression and panic was out of control. I found a new doctor, who convinced me that Effexor may work for me if I started on an extremely low dose. So now I take half of the 37.5 mg a day, by breaking the pill into quarters for each dose. It's fine-I feel a little better already. I felt a bit wierd at first, and my jaw is tense and a little trembly, but it's not bad. I also have to pee alot, and have dry mouth, but again, it's not awful. I can live with the symptoms because I feel better with more energy, and not so incredibly sad, awful and irritable like I felt before. I feel more relaxed and mellow, a little spacey, but it's kind of cool. I think I feel wierd because I'm so used to feeling anxious sad and tense, and my body is not used to feeling good and relaxed.
is there any suggestions for me
> Stef, there are lots and lots of antidepressants: tricyclics (like imipramine), SSRI's (Paxil, Luvox, Zoloft, Celexa), Effexor-XR, Serzone, Remeron, MAOI's, etc. Have you talked with your pdoc about your fears? He/she can probably suggest a new med depending on what your symptoms are and what side effects you have experienced in the past. Have you ever tried anything besides Paxil? Also, if you try another med, you may want to start VERY slow (some people even crush the pill and put it in water and take VERY VERY small doses until they see how they are going to react).
>
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.