![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 6966 to 6990 of 10407. Go back in thread:
Posted by lorily on July 15, 2004, at 10:03:07
In reply to Re: Cam- how to read the article, posted by Karen Smith on July 15, 2004, at 2:13:53
Karen, each and every symptom I can relate to. My suggestion is to decrease the effexor slowly, as all the things you're feeling is due to your body trying to do what the effexor does and it doesn't remember how so to speak. Effexor has a short half life so you feel this. Other AD stay in your system a lot longer so your body adjusts slowly to not having the meds and side effects aren't like that. As for not having money for the meds, I feel you. The doctor prescribing them to you may have samples to give you for free while you're doing this. Also, you can look into charity care. Don't let your pride stand in the way of your health by no means!!!!
Posted by PoohBear on July 15, 2004, at 11:23:32
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work - ADHD poem - Good book » PoohBear, posted by corafree on July 15, 2004, at 8:56:38
Cora:
As to whether all people have ADHD to some extent or other, I would agree with Pablo, that many people exhibit ADHD-like symptoms at certain periods of their life. In Britain they don't even have a diagnosis for ADHD, feeling that it is over-indicated in American psychiatry...
That said, the difference, I think, is that the "symptoms" for the person with "true" ADHD are much more intense and persistent. It's normal for almost anyone to have lazy periods, but is this something that has been a persistent pattern in a person's life, and if so, why?
I really do think that there are so many things about the brain and our nervous system that are either not understood or are MISUNDERSTOOD that it sometimes makes correct diagnosis an real issue. Not all psychologists "believe" that there is such a thing as ADHD. If that were not the case, there would be far fewer doctors preaching the "no medication for children" message. The key is doing enough research on your own to be versed enough in the subject that you understand the disorder and its variations so that you can carry on an effective treatment program with your therapist, who will hopefully be trained enough to diagnose and guide.
There is a test that you can take online from the Amen Clinic:
http://www.amenclinic.com/ac/addtests/adult.asp
Take the test and then take it to your therapist and see what they recommend...
I have personal theory as to why there may be so many people in the US that exhibit ADHD symptoms.
I believe that based on genetics, one can make a case that since 99% of the population originally came from somewhere else, that the people that came here were the adventurous types who were in one way or another disatisfied with were they were, their station in life or who simply were driven to seek new horizons. These people then "bred" that brain wiring into many of the general population.
There are those as well who feel that ADHD symptoms are brough on by environmental stimuli, like mercury. I think if you look at Dr. Amen's research with brain scans, you'll agree with me that there must be some other mechanism at work.
Best wishes!
Tony
Posted by corafree on July 15, 2004, at 12:21:35
In reply to Re: Cam- how to read the article, posted by lorily on July 15, 2004, at 10:03:07
The state in which I live has a program for people who have serious mental illnesses. Depression and anxiety, Bipolar, ADHD, a lot of them qualify. You show your history to be approved. When approved you see docs and receive meds w/o cost.
Posted by corafree on July 15, 2004, at 12:37:02
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work - ADHD poem - Good book » corafree, posted by PoohBear on July 15, 2004, at 11:23:32
Tks Tony & Pablo for your time and sharing your research with me. I feel lucky to have found you here. I think I may buy a book and take a test! cf
Posted by pablo1 on July 15, 2004, at 13:10:04
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work - ADHD poem - Good book, posted by corafree on July 15, 2004, at 12:37:02
Also,
I'm still not sure I've got ADD but I sure can relate to a lot of what ADD folk talk about. Creative and intelligent people tend to exhibit these characteristics too and I like being a nutty professor kind of person and don't consider that a mental disease that needs curing. But it's for sure useful to understand these things better rather than thinking it's pure laziness or that I 'ought' to be different. Simply understanding can go a long way toward feeling better about ADD which is not the case for depression or anxiety.
Being incapacitated or crippled by ADD is no fun though I'm still trying to sort out what's caused by what. I've certainly got some childhood issues to blame my bad habits on as well.
Posted by lorily on July 15, 2004, at 14:18:16
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work - ADHD poem - Good book » corafree, posted by PoohBear on July 15, 2004, at 11:23:32
A doctor diagnosed me with Bipolar 2 I guess, the one that's not so bad. Even though I disagreed, my therapist disagreed, there were a many things I could relate to in the symptoms. (As I am now aware almost everyone can, ADD as well and even saw somewhere that ADD and bipolar get confused with eachother)
So, I researched and researched and finally went to a support group and looked at even MORE literature. I could relate to no bipolar to rapid cycling to this level and that level. That evening I decided that as far as the bipolar thing was concerned, too much information was not good for me. It really didn't matter what I relate to, as long as I'm ok, I was starting to drive myself nuts (sorry) with all that data.
I for one will NOT be taking and ADD test LOL :)
Posted by Atticus on July 15, 2004, at 15:44:00
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work - ADHD poem - Good book, posted by lorily on July 15, 2004, at 14:18:16
I've had at least two doctors try to convince me that I was bipolar, but when I looked into the literature and at my life, I really couldn't remember myself cycling up into mania as I understand it (which admittedly isn't too well). Depression, YES, but mania with the same level of intensity, no. However, that said, there was an episode around last Christmas that could conceivably be construed as manic, but I'm just not sure. I do a lot of oil painting to unwind. I did this enormous canvas of John Lennon -- working on it for about 50 consecutive hours without stopping or getting tired. My rationale at the time was that I was controlling the strokes, marks and color palette well and didn't want to lose the "groove" I was in by sleeping. I chalked it up to being just one of those idiosyncratic things that creative people do. I've had these kinds of bursts of creative energy periodically throughout my life, though they tend to wane if I don't follow the projects through to completion right away, and I've got stacks of unfinished short stories, poems, novellas, and sketches and photo reference for unpainted paintings. In terms of my professional life, I've had more than a thousand illustrations and cartoons published in magazines, newspapers, and books, and I write/edit for a living. Whether it's something I'm doing for a living or just my own amusement, I definitely tend to work in these rat-tat-tat bursts. I do know the Effexor-XR is working out well for me so far, and I don't know if that would be the case for someone who is bipolar. But still, I have to wonder in the back of my mind if any of these episodes like the Lennon painting are indicative of something, or whether I'm just overthinking things. Do any of the people who have been diagnosed as bipolar have any thoughts on this? Atticus
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 15, 2004, at 19:18:49
In reply to Re: double double quotes » Dr. Bob, posted by PoohBear on July 14, 2004, at 18:58:56
Posted by corafree on July 15, 2004, at 20:58:43
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work - ADHD poem - Good book » lorily, posted by Atticus on July 15, 2004, at 15:44:00
Hey, I've seen at least five (maybe more?) psychiatrists, over the years, and even 'they don't know.' I was quite creatively high years before I hit a string of broken marriages, bad jobs, bad meds, mistakes .... so trauma has really taken its toll on me, and now some say I may be bipolar II, more recently say post traumatic stress, hence, borderline personality disorder which would account for multiple suicide attempts. What a H-57! I shy away from bipolar though, not even sure why. Maybe because they're like a group, 'ya know, and I have always liked being an individual; don't mean to step on anyone's toes ,.. really. I wish I could say I'm just one thing, but at one time or another, think have had symptoms of many diagnoses. I do have an insightful daughter who is able to stand back, look at me, and see me ... when I can't. I am open to try understand myself better. I need to take good care of myself at this point, and your sharing is good for me. Day at a time. cf
Posted by jenn007 on July 16, 2004, at 1:00:47
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work, posted by PoohBear on July 13, 2004, at 12:37:08
> > I have been on effexor for over a year now. When I first started taking it I could not stop yawning and I did not sleep for two days. Now I am trying to lower my dosage and I have heard that effexor is one of the hardest antidepressant to get off of. I could not really tell that it was doing anyting for me but my family and friends noticed imediately. If I skip more than one day of not taking it I cry for no reason and am very mood...so it must be working.<
>
>
i have been on for 2 months and i noticed a change in moods but ii cant stop yawning and still feel tired. will this fade you think? i am only taking half of my 75mg once a day because of the tiredness.
>
Posted by lorily on July 16, 2004, at 8:25:47
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work - ADHD poem - Good book » Atticus, posted by corafree on July 15, 2004, at 20:58:43
Corafree,
I know what you mean about the bipolar thing. It's weird how we get all these different diags and "maybe it's....let's try a pill and see how you feel"
I'm so glad I found this site. I searched the net for effexor or even depakote half life, here I am. I can't stay away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (is there a label for that, too? :)
Good to be able to relate with others on our experiences. Reminds me of AA
Posted by Atticus on July 16, 2004, at 8:31:06
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work - ADHD poem - Good book » Atticus, posted by corafree on July 15, 2004, at 20:58:43
Corafree,
Wow! I just read your latest post, and it was eerily like reading about myself (except substitute one broken marriage and one suicide attempt). All the rest was spot on. I shy away from being diagnosed as bipolar for two main reasons, I think. One is that I've seen the side effects that lithium has on people, and I'm scared to death of being put on that particular med. And second -- also related to meds -- I'm hesitant to even speak the word "bipolar" or describe the above behaviors to my current pdoc (I think this is number six or seven). His first instinct, when I say anything is out of the ordinary or not so hot in my life, is to grab his prescription pad and start talking about a med switch, and I HATE med changes. They are so disruptive to my mental equilibrium -- between the withdrawl from the old med and the adjustment period to the new med -- that I'm always sitting there in his office thinking to myself, "STUPID, STUPID, STUPID! Why did I say anything?" It would be one thing if I was really going through a crisis and wanted a med change. But this guy is willing to pull one med and substitute another at the drop of a hat, it seems. Which is why I floated this notion of whether the behaviors I mentioned seemed manic or not in this forum first. Also, I've been reading about all these horrendous withdrawl effects related to the Effexor-XR I'm taking now, and the last thing I want at the moment is to be plunged into that less than two months after a suicide attempt. OY! I do want to understand my illness better, as you said, but part of me also agrees with lorily's recent post: you can really get overloaded with info and start to think you have every psychiatric problem in the book. I'm going to take your advice and just take things as they come. Thanks. Atticus
Posted by lorily on July 16, 2004, at 8:31:40
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work - ADHD poem - Good book » lorily, posted by Atticus on July 15, 2004, at 15:44:00
Atticus,
Yes, tes, and yes. That's me. couldn't ever relate to the manic thing, that's why they have bipolar II and rapid cycling and .......
There's always something to relate to, for me it was a little of this one and a little of that one.
the doc asked me if I had racing thoughts when I wasn't trying to sleep. And in frustration I replied, "Of course, when I have 5 different things going on at the same time that HAVE to get done BY ME, I HAVE TO DO THEM......... and he looked at me like, 'I rest my case'
Posted by Shyla on July 16, 2004, at 9:04:38
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work » Corafree, posted by PoohBear on July 14, 2004, at 18:49:43
Tony, I wanted to tell you how impressed I was with your poem. It's very good.
Shyla
Posted by corafree on July 16, 2004, at 16:02:54
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work - ADHD poem - Good book, posted by lorily on July 16, 2004, at 8:31:40
I know some of you must have seen Ordinary People. Judd Hirsch (psych) asks Timothy Hutton (just out of psych hospital), "Why are you here?" and Hutton says, "I don't know..you tell me..you're the doctor!?" That's the prob'; we have to be careful what we say. Maybe we are our own worst enemies and judge ourselves too harshly, therefore come across worse than we are? We don't want to raise any RED FLAGS that are incorrect. I'm having my daughter accompany me, whenever she is able, as an advocate of sort, to my psych and pain doc. She won't always be able to go, but someone that loves you well can be helpful. I've been too honest w/ some of my doctors, but in my emotional honesty sometimes shortchange myself, and later think, 'that wasn't right, shouldn't have answered that way'. They ask, "do you think you're addicted?", and then they watch for a RED FLAG. My emotions want to blurt out, 'well, it's an addictive drug, shouldn't I be?' Recently, a pscyh pretty much blackmailed me into saying I was addicted to benzos to allow me to stay on 2mg Klonopin for three more months, and I (totally anxious at this question and the my future flashing before my eyes) said yes. Should have said something else...dependent maybe...not sure, or even, no, I don't think I am. But, being clear is difficult and since they write down everything thing you say w/o mentioning your manner, it's really important. If your chart goes to a new doc, he/she is not going to know if you were joking, questioning (ya' know saying .. maybe blah blah blah, what do you think), or stating a fact. Then words can easily be taken out of context (because your manner of speaking is not written down). Think a personal advocate; so thankful for this daughter, should help me. Good Friday friends. Time for a nap (Have chronic pain to boot!). cf
Posted by Atticus on July 16, 2004, at 21:14:23
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work - ADHD poem - Good book » lorily, posted by corafree on July 16, 2004, at 16:02:54
corafree,
The kind of cat-and-mouse game you describe with your pdoc -- where you're trying to be emotionally open yet fearful of what kind of consequences or misinterpretations this may result in -- is so frustratingly familiar. Even after eight years, I still haven't figured out how to tread this tightrope. On the one hand, I'm thinking that holding back means I'm not getting the full benefit out of the therapy. On the other hand, I've become increasingly guarded about what comes out of my mouth because, as you say, I don't want to inadvertantly raise any red flags that aren't really germane to what I'm trying to communicate about my condition. This paradox makes the whole process seem so counterproductive sometimes. Often, on the drive over to the pdoc's office, I even find myself rehearsing justifications for things, such as why I don't feel comfortable lowering my benzos at this point, just in case it comes up. But even when I do ridiculous stuff like this, the sessions still strike me as kind of a rigged game. My pdoc's mind is (presumably) clear. The biochemistry in my brain needs a pharmaceutical cocktail just to maintain anything resembling clarity. Even with the Effexor, which makes me feel sharper mentally than I have in about 10 years, it's still easy to feel overmatched and just give in to whatever he's saying about me. Have other people come up with strategies to navigate this dilemma better than I do? Atticus
Posted by KaraS on July 17, 2004, at 1:07:48
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work - ADHD poem - Good book » corafree, posted by Atticus on July 16, 2004, at 21:14:23
> corafree,
> The kind of cat-and-mouse game you describe with your pdoc -- where you're trying to be emotionally open yet fearful of what kind of consequences or misinterpretations this may result in -- is so frustratingly familiar. Even after eight years, I still haven't figured out how to tread this tightrope. On the one hand, I'm thinking that holding back means I'm not getting the full benefit out of the therapy. On the other hand, I've become increasingly guarded about what comes out of my mouth because, as you say, I don't want to inadvertantly raise any red flags that aren't really germane to what I'm trying to communicate about my condition. This paradox makes the whole process seem so counterproductive sometimes. Often, on the drive over to the pdoc's office, I even find myself rehearsing justifications for things, such as why I don't feel comfortable lowering my benzos at this point, just in case it comes up. But even when I do ridiculous stuff like this, the sessions still strike me as kind of a rigged game. My pdoc's mind is (presumably) clear. The biochemistry in my brain needs a pharmaceutical cocktail just to maintain anything resembling clarity. Even with the Effexor, which makes me feel sharper mentally than I have in about 10 years, it's still easy to feel overmatched and just give in to whatever he's saying about me. Have other people come up with strategies to navigate this dilemma better than I do? AtticusI haven't read all the rest of this thread so please forgive me if this is redundant, but have you ever considered finding a new pdoc? I have been to one who made me feel as you describe. He was more than adequate with regard to his knowledge of medications but left something to be desired on a more personal level. I found his attitude to be patronizing or perhaps a better word is infantilizing. That was probably his intention. At any rate, I later found another pdoc who treated our sessions as much more of a partnership. I expressed my views openly and we discussed them as opposed to me feeling that I had to defend my views. I was much more comfortable with that situation.
Just my two cents worth ...
Posted by Atticus on July 17, 2004, at 8:33:11
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work - ADHD poem - Good book, posted by KaraS on July 17, 2004, at 1:07:48
Hi Kara,
Don't underestimate the value of your "two cents." :) It's the two cents of other people like you that keeps me coming back to this site. I'm actually having my first meeting with a new pdoc on Monday evening. I don't know if he'll be an improvement or not, but I'm going into this with as much optimism as possible. I actually had a wonderful pdoc when I lived in another state, but now she's 500 miles away, and finding someone with whom I feel as sympatico as I did with her has proven to be a real challenge. Wish me luck! Atticus
Posted by KaraS on July 17, 2004, at 14:49:57
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work - ADHD poem - Good book » KaraS, posted by Atticus on July 17, 2004, at 8:33:11
> Hi Kara,
> Don't underestimate the value of your "two cents." :) It's the two cents of other people like you that keeps me coming back to this site. I'm actually having my first meeting with a new pdoc on Monday evening. I don't know if he'll be an improvement or not, but I'm going into this with as much optimism as possible. I actually had a wonderful pdoc when I lived in another state, but now she's 500 miles away, and finding someone with whom I feel as sympatico as I did with her has proven to be a real challenge. Wish me luck! Atticus
Atticus,Good for you! I'll keep my fingers crossed for you! (I had a great pdoc myself when I lived 3,000 miles away so I know how you feel. The one I see occassionally now is ok but not that same level of sympatico you describe.) Please keep us posted as to how it goes.
Kara
P.S. I like the name you chose. (I read another post of yours explaining why you chose it.)
Posted by lorily on July 17, 2004, at 14:52:31
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work - ADHD poem - Good book, posted by KaraS on July 17, 2004, at 1:07:48
I MUST agree with Kara on changing docs. I had a wonderful one, we spent about an hour together (which wasn't scheduled) each time I saw her and she listened, I felt comfortable, open, et cetera. Unfortunately she had to leave the center I go to and though the doc I see now is okay, it's more of a "how do you feel............here's a refill" type of thing. When I told her I wanted to try to get off meds, she tried to subtly talk me out of it with the old "If you had high blood pressure would you want to stop your meds?" routine. I discussed my understanding that ADs be a temporary thing and that I wanted to go that route. Her reply was that some people do need to permanently be on them. It went back and forth a bit, but I had my mind made up I knew how I felt, I knew what I wanted, I know where I am in my life with recovery, I'm stabile, and there really wasn't (IN MY CASE< EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT) a good reason why I couldn't or shouldn't do as I felt was the best for me. I had done my research on the meds on the withdrawals, on the harm it could do me or a baby should I become pregnant, I have certain plans for the future where it would be best that I'm not on the meds IF I DON'T HAVE TO BE. If it doesn't work, or a depression relapse comes about, I'm perfectly willing to resume use of another drug Not effexor.
I think you shouldn't be playing a game and rehearsing what you might have to say if any case arose, just go there knowing what you feel you need. And be open to the fact that the doctor just might know better than you, but ask for an explanation that you understand and that convinces you in a way you're comfortable with. I took depakote for 2 years nto thinking I needed it, my therapist didn't think that was the right diagnosis, but because the doctor said so, they must be right. Well, I've learned they're not always right, especially when it comes to mixing around meds, it's a trial and error thing.
Posted by lorily on July 17, 2004, at 15:06:21
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work - ADHD poem - Good book » lorily, posted by corafree on July 16, 2004, at 16:02:54
Oh, a post-script to my other post, this last one reminded me of this. After I had that meeting with my doc, I looked at my chart and she had written that I wanted to become pregnant and that's why I wanted off the meds!!!!!!!!!!! My actual statement at the end of the discussion was "If God puts a child into my life, I do not want to have to abort to avoid giving birth to a monster." That because of the horrible deformities that depakote can cause. And, this was after all my other statements on my research etcetera, she goes and puts that I want to become pregnant. and that was her whole summary of the session!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by corafree on July 18, 2004, at 11:22:53
In reply to Re: Does Effexor work - ADHD poem - Good book, posted by lorily on July 17, 2004, at 15:06:21
I am under an umbrella of state docs. Before disability, could afford more choices. I went to a good doc for 10 years before stopped working. Now under this umbrella the first doc I saw turned the room ice cold (you can say 'uncomfortable relationship' and move on to another), and so I went to another. He and I had a good relationship. I joked once (you know you get comfortable w/ someone and you have knowledge about diff' meds etc and will just mention something), kiddingly said, 'maybe I should go back Xanax again (I had taken myself off a high dose a year before - now down to 2mg Klonopin), or maybe Librium (prescribed in the 70s)', and I laughed. Well, this state umbrella let my doc' go a few months later. Unknowingly, I go to my appt. There sat 'Mr. God syndrome' saying, 'I'm taking you off your benzos, nothing you can say will change my mind.' This new doc had red flagged what my prior doctor had written re: Xanax and Librium. I filed a grievance about the Klonopin, and asked for a new doc; will now go to another doc under the same state umbrella. Thing is, my old doc hadn't written that I laughed, that I was joking around. He just wrote...pt asked for xanax, librium. I asked for a copy of my chart. While looking it over, my caseworker told me 'I KNOW you joke around, but someone else reading this might take it seriously; you can't joke around with these doctors, and now you know why.' He also said 'I write my notes, but sometimes when I go back to look at them, it's like they make the pt sound so much worse than he/she was.' This whole mess just happened. That is why I've shared this bit about red flags etc. Cross your fingers for a better new doc for me pls. It will be a month before I find out who they put me with now (You can't request a certain doc.). But chart prob' still there ... the chart is under the umbrella too. Of course w/ new doc I will try share that some progress notes have been taken out of context. Wish I could afford to get wet! cf
Posted by Atticus on July 18, 2004, at 21:03:02
In reply to Re: thanks! (nm) » PoohBear, posted by Dr. Bob on July 15, 2004, at 19:18:49
Dr. Bob,
Thanks for setting up this amazing site. In the week or so I've been participating in this virtual community, I've really come to value it. However, I'm having difficulty navigating my way to the other message boards here. In particular, I'd like to access Psycho-Babble Writing, Psycho-Babble Newbies, and Psycho-Social Babble, but I can't seem to figure out how. Do I need to confirm my registration for each new message board that I want to take part in? The process is probably simple, but right now trying to get from here to there has left me flummoxed. Little help? Thanks. Atticus
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 19, 2004, at 1:10:18
In reply to Re: thanks! » Dr. Bob, posted by Atticus on July 18, 2004, at 21:03:02
> I'm having difficulty navigating my way to the other message boards here... Do I need to confirm my registration for each new message board that I want to take part in?
Thanks for your interest. One registration fits all. On each main page that lists posts, there are areas, next to the Google areas, that have links to the other boards. Also, if you want, you can keep this small list of boards open and off to the side:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/list.html
Hope that helps,
Bob
Posted by Atticus on July 19, 2004, at 14:43:59
In reply to Re: navigating to the other message boards, posted by Dr. Bob on July 19, 2004, at 1:10:18
Thanks, that did the trick. I just posted my first poem on the writing board. Atticus
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.