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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by rockette on June 28, 2004, at 19:42:54
In reply to Re: ZONEGRAN WORKS WONDERS...and Wellbutrin?, posted by rockette on June 28, 2004, at 19:29:22
Please hope no one takes offense by the "happiness" pill remark. I've done the depression scene myself and although am not diagnosed bipolar I'm sure the Wellbutrin has made that aspect of my life easier. It really has worked well with the Topamax for the headaches and if it weren't for other side-effects I wouldn't be searching for an alternative.
Posted by dazed on June 29, 2004, at 13:11:03
In reply to Re: ZONEGRAN WORKS WONDERS...and Wellbutrin?, posted by rockette on June 28, 2004, at 19:29:22
I take 300 mg Zonegran and 300 Wellbutrin XL (or is it XR?). Anyway, I take Zonegran for migraines, Wellbutrin for OCD. The Zonegran doesn't work as well as topomax, but I was getting too stupid on topomax, so I switched. I'm not as stupid on Zonegran, but I can go up to 600 mg on Zonegran and am only on 300 mg so far, so I have a way to go if I'm not as happy with the results. This week I seem to be doing better with the migraines (this is my 5th week on Zonegran).
I'm hoping I can stay at 300 mg because I really have no side effects at 300 mg.
Posted by dazed on June 29, 2004, at 13:13:30
In reply to Re: ZONEGRAN WORKS WONDERS...and Wellbutrin?, posted by rockette on June 28, 2004, at 19:29:22
I forgot...I don't really think the Wellbutrin works on my depression very well, so I'm going to add Celexa soon and see if that helps some.
Posted by rockette on June 29, 2004, at 13:24:34
In reply to Re: ZONEGRAN WORKS WONDERS...and Wellbutrin?, posted by dazed on June 29, 2004, at 13:11:03
> I take 300 mg Zonegran and 300 Wellbutrin XL (or is it XR?). Anyway, I take Zonegran for migraines, Wellbutrin for OCD. The Zonegran doesn't work as well as topomax, but I was getting too stupid on topomax, so I switched. I'm not as stupid on Zonegran, but I can go up to 600 mg on Zonegran and am only on 300 mg so far, so I have a way to go if I'm not as happy with the results. This week I seem to be doing better with the migraines (this is my 5th week on Zonegran).
>
> I'm hoping I can stay at 300 mg because I really have no side effects at 300 mg.Thank you for the feedback. I will enjoy losing the "stupids" -- or at least the tendency to forget people's names and what I was saying mid-sentence!! But losing the early morning migraines is the major concern at this point.
Posted by dazed on June 29, 2004, at 15:46:59
In reply to Re: ZONEGRAN WORKS WONDERS...and Wellbutrin? » dazed, posted by rockette on June 29, 2004, at 13:24:34
For the first time in about 25 years, I have awaken with no migraine and/or daily headache. I think it is getting better on the higher dose.
I wish you much luck!
Posted by sooshi on June 29, 2004, at 20:42:29
In reply to Re: ZONEGRAN WORKS WONDERS » sooshi, posted by SLS on June 28, 2004, at 17:11:02
Hi Scott,
Yes, I remember when I first started Zonegran and was requesting info, reading your post to me about how it didn't work out for you! I'm glad you are thinking of giving it another try!
For me, Zonegran has produced quite a powerful antidepressant effect, more so than anything I have ever tried before. I had been taking Effexor XR for approx 4yrs, just barely keeping my head above water, supplementing it with just about every kind of drug there is (SSRI's, AP's, TC's, MS's...) anything to relieve the severe depression I was living with.
I would have occasional hypomanic states, where I would become exceptionally active, irritable, anxious...but not truly manic, so my diagnosis has been BPII, instead of Major Depressive, which is what it was for the past 15 years.
Finally, the pdoc said, let's try Zonegran (because we had been thru just about everything else)...we'll experiment with it together (he only had a few patients on it). And I tell you, within 2 months, I felt like heavy blankets were coming off my body, ya know? It's still so fresh, that I still get freaked out by it...it's almost UNREAL, or even UNCOMFORTABLE to feel like.......NOT LIKE DYING EVERY DAY.
ANYWAY, for some reason, Zonegran has stabilized my moods, has produced a really strong antidepressant effect for me, with little to no side effects - what more could I ask for? Of course, I still take Effexor XR, so it's probably the combo of both. And so far (knock on wood) I haven't experienced the dreaded poop-out!
Let me know if you decide to try it again!
Sooshi
Posted by SLS on June 30, 2004, at 5:48:42
In reply to Re: ZONEGRAN WORKS WONDERS » SLS, posted by sooshi on June 29, 2004, at 20:42:29
Hi Sooshi.
Thanks for the reply. I became interested to try Zonegran again because of your posts. Your antidepressant response to it is very exciting.
I tried getting through to my doctor on Monday to ask him if I could try Zonegran again. I didn't hear from him, so I think I'll try again today. I am not sure he will want to go with it at this juncture, though. At my last visit, we agreed that Cymbalta (duloxetine) should be the next drug I try. He said that he was to be given a supply of Cymbalta in two or three weeks. He was chosen by Eli Lilly to be one of the clinical researchers to perform open label trials before its final release, which is still expected by the drug company to occur sometime this summer. I am apprehensive that he won't get it now because the FDA has pushed back the actionable date for approval until late September. If this is true, I think Zonegran would be the right thing for me to try in the interim.
My best wishes to you that you keep feeling better and better!
Thanks again.
- Scott
Posted by sooshi on June 30, 2004, at 9:25:22
In reply to Re: ZONEGRAN WORKS WONDERS » sooshi, posted by SLS on June 30, 2004, at 5:48:42
My pdoc was also very anxious to get me on Cymbalta, since I was on the max dose of Effexor and had just about run out of options of what to add to it. I think he would still prefer to see me on Cymbalta, but I don't want to mess with switching at this point, since I'm doing so well with the Eff/Zon combo, unless I start to get the dreaded "poop-out" - it's a shame that we just expect this to start happening now...
Good luck and let me know what you decide to do!
Sooshi
Posted by SLS on June 30, 2004, at 13:43:43
In reply to Re: ZONEGRAN WORKS WONDERS » SLS, posted by sooshi on June 30, 2004, at 9:25:22
> Good luck and let me know what you decide to do!
> Sooshi
Hi Sooshi.I spoke to my doctor this morning, and he is letting me start taking Zonegran today. I just filled the prescription. Woohoo!
How fast did you work up to 200mg? I'm going to start at 100mg. It would be soooo cool if this stuff were to work for me. I want it so bad, I can taste it.
My doctor didn't think that the FDA decision to push back its "actionable" date on Cymbalta will impact on its schedule for approval. The manufacturer still expects it "sometime this summer".
Thanks for your kind replies.
- Scott
Posted by snapper on June 30, 2004, at 14:12:05
In reply to Re: ZONEGRAN WORKS WONDERS » sooshi, posted by SLS on June 30, 2004, at 13:43:43
Scott, Good luck with Zonegran!!
Posted by sooshi on June 30, 2004, at 15:18:53
In reply to Re: ZONEGRAN WORKS WONDERS » sooshi, posted by SLS on June 30, 2004, at 13:43:43
Oh yea! I'm so excited for you! But, jeez, now I'm really nervous, cuz if it doesn't work out for you, man will I feel guilty for building up the "greatness" of Zonegran!! Well, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you, too! Just be patient for the titration upwards....the only side effects I had were sleepiness and maybe some dry mouth. I started out at either 25 or 50mgs and worked my way up rather quickly, since I wasn't experiencing any problems, about every 3rd day. I would definately take it slower, or start at a lower dose if you experience any uncomfortable side effects...you want this stuff to work, so do whatever it takes to let your body get adjusted!
Again, good luck, and keep me posted,
Sooshi
Posted by 4mygrls on June 30, 2004, at 15:54:22
In reply to Re: ZONEGRAN WORKS WONDERS » SLS, posted by sooshi on June 30, 2004, at 15:18:53
i see him tomorrow so we'll see. i'm scared though. i have taken topomax,trileptal and lamictal and had bad reactions to all of them. i got extremely emotional. i never knew if i was going to have a good day or not. i would get very irritable and agitated. i would get very angry and unreasonable. i definatly couldn't let things slide off my back like usual.basically i was a bitch and couldn't help it. plus i would take things people said and read into them and think it was bad about me(paranoia).I'm on lithium(basically just started). I don't know if i should ask him about the zonegran or stay with the lithium. i also take klonopin and wellbutrin xl. i want something that will keep me stable. i don't have manic like the super energy manic. I get agitated,paranoid,inner anxiety like i'm going crazy. then i'm depressed. then i'm not as depressed. right now i'm at the not as depressed stage. i just got over the crazy stage. i'm also thinking of asking for abilify or something like it for the crazy feeling and staying with the lithium and well and klon. but lithium scares me. ughhhh, someone please tell me what to do? does anyone have those similar experiences with meds like i did? the thing that scares me the most with the moodstabilizers is that the ones i have tried keep me in the state of craziness more often.why is that? thanks for your patience guys.
Posted by sooshi on June 30, 2004, at 19:01:16
In reply to i'm thinking of asking my pdoc for zonegran now., posted by 4mygrls on June 30, 2004, at 15:54:22
If you think you can stand it, give the Lithium a trial run, but I know what you mean about mood stabilizers...I'm actually allergic to Lithium, Tegretol and Trileptal, but I've taken them all and had unpleasant results. But many people have had such excellent stabilizing results from Lithium, especially if they are truly BPI...I think it works great for mania.
When I took Lamictal, it did nothing at all...I couldn't even tell I was taking anything. As for Topomax - what a drag that was. A nightmare of side effects for such small benefit...very little mood stabilization and some weight loss.
I don't think it would hurt to go ahead and mention the Zonegran to your doctor, that you have heard it has great mood stabilizing and antidepressant effects, all with few side effects. At least you two could be considering it in case the Lithium doesn't work out?
Good luck to you, and let me know what you decide!
Sooshi
Posted by SLS on July 2, 2004, at 13:10:45
In reply to Re: ZONEGRAN WORKS WONDERS » SLS, posted by sooshi on June 30, 2004, at 15:18:53
Hi.
Oh well. I guess it was just wishful thinking. I have developed intense itching again while taking Zonegran. The itching usually begins after a shower and lasts for up to an hour afterwards. When I was younger, I experienced exactly the same thing with the tricyclics. Does this sound familiar to anyone? I am leaning in favor of continuing with Zonegran and hope that this side effect will dissipate. Of course, I also hope that it cures my depression!
Thanks.
- Scott
Posted by sooshi on July 2, 2004, at 17:53:59
In reply to Re: ZONEGRAN WORKS WONDERS - Itching?, posted by SLS on July 2, 2004, at 13:10:45
Oh man! Are you allergic to any sulfa drugs, such as Bactrim or Septra??? If so, you can't take Zonegran! It's contraindicated. It might be what's causing your itching. Can you ask your doctor to be tested for this type of allergy, if you don't know whether or not you're allergic to sulfa drugs?
If not, I'd keep on taking it, and see what happens, as long as you DO NOT get a rash, because Zonegran has been implicated with SJS too, unfortunately. Please keep me informed!
Sooshi
Posted by SLS on July 2, 2004, at 18:22:42
In reply to Re: ZONEGRAN WORKS WONDERS - Itching? » SLS, posted by sooshi on July 2, 2004, at 17:53:59
> Oh man! Are you allergic to any sulfa drugs, such as Bactrim or Septra???
I really don't know. I don't think I have ever taken any.
The itching occurs without the appearance of any discoloration or lesion. I don't think it is an allergic reaction. I'll stick with it for now. I really, really want to find something that works. Maybe the itching will disappear over time. Although it seems to happen only after I take a hot shower, it becomes quite intense and lasts for 1/2 - 1 hour. This exact same thing has happened to me in the past when I first started taking tricyclics. Weird.
- Scott
Posted by jtevers on July 18, 2004, at 16:29:18
In reply to Re: ZONEGRAN WORKS WONDERS - Itching? » sooshi, posted by SLS on July 2, 2004, at 18:22:42
i have been taking neurontin (a mood stabilizer) and seroquel (an antipsychotic) since a 2000 diagnosis of bipolar disorder.
because i have gained almost 80 lbs. and sleep 10 hrs. since my medication, i am currently investigating a switch.
i am attempting to go from taking seroquel to geodon (a more potent antipsychotic), which supposedly causes less weight gain.
additionally, i would like to switch from neurontin to zonegran for my mood stabilization, but have experienced anxiety and panic once before while waining off my neurontin. SO i wondered...
does anyone know the therapeutic dose of zonegran for mood disorders?
what is the effect on my sleep or level of energy and when do you typically take a dose of zonegran, at night or during the day?
does zonegran reduce or cause anxiety as a side effect?
has anyone experienced weight gain or loss while being administered zonegran?
thank you,
jt
Posted by SLS on July 18, 2004, at 20:19:04
In reply to neurontin to zonegran : weight loss, anxiety ?, posted by jtevers on July 18, 2004, at 16:29:18
> i have been taking neurontin (a mood stabilizer) and seroquel (an antipsychotic) since a 2000 diagnosis of bipolar disorder.
> because i have gained almost 80 lbs. and sleep 10 hrs. since my medication, i am currently investigating a switch.
Hi.Why don't you switch the Seroquel first and see how you do with the weight and sleep issues before switching the Neurontin? Neurontin usually isn't the big offender when it comes to weight gain. The Seroquel can account for both the weight gain and sleepiness. Removing the Neurontin might leave you vulnerable to anxiety. I can't think of any reason why you can't add the Zonegran to the Neurontin first before attempting to discontinue the Neurontin.
There really isn't a whole lot of experience out there using Zonegran as a mood stabilizer so that your questions can be answered definitively. I am currently taking Zonegran 200mg, and have been on it for about three weeks. It has reduced my appetite, but has not produced anxiety nor insomnia. My sleep seems to be unaffected. I take it twice a day. I am treating chronic bipolar depression without mania or cycling. Last week, I experienced profound fatigue that I could not account for except for the Zonegran. It has abated, but I am not convinced that it has completely disappeared. Zonegran seems to be a very clean drug with respect to cognitive side effects, unlike Topamax.
How does Neurontin help you? In what ways does it improve your condition? Are you convinced that it is Neurontin and not Seroquel that is providing you with mood stability? I'm just trying to get a better idea as to how effective Neurontin really is as a mood stabilizer. There are so many conflicting opinions.
Trileptal and Lamictal are two alternative mood stabilizers that don't normally cause much weight gain. Depakote, on the other hand, does in many cases. You would be one of the first people to try Zonegran, so I'm afraid you'll have to be the guinea pig required to answer your own questions.
Good luck.
- Scott
Posted by terry on July 19, 2004, at 14:15:52
In reply to neurontin to zonegran : weight loss, anxiety ?, posted by jtevers on July 18, 2004, at 16:29:18
> i have been taking neurontin (a mood stabilizer) and seroquel (an antipsychotic) since a 2000 diagnosis of bipolar disorder.
>
> because i have gained almost 80 lbs. and sleep 10 hrs. since my medication, i am currently investigating a switch.
>
> i am attempting to go from taking seroquel to geodon (a more potent antipsychotic), which supposedly causes less weight gain.
>
> additionally, i would like to switch from neurontin to zonegran for my mood stabilization, but have experienced anxiety and panic once before while waining off my neurontin. SO i wondered...
>
> does anyone know the therapeutic dose of zonegran for mood disorders?
>
> what is the effect on my sleep or level of energy and when do you typically take a dose of zonegran, at night or during the day?
>
> does zonegran reduce or cause anxiety as a side effect?
>
> has anyone experienced weight gain or loss while being administered zonegran?
>
> thank you,
> jtI had a very bad (suicidal) experience with geodon. I got terrible anxiety after a couple of weeks. when I tried to get off the anxiety got worse. I would never want to go through that again. I've heard of others who have had bad experiences with geodon.
Posted by sooshi on July 19, 2004, at 22:55:36
In reply to neurontin to zonegran : weight loss, anxiety ?, posted by jtevers on July 18, 2004, at 16:29:18
Hi jtevers,
"does anyone know the therapeutic dose of zonegran for mood disorders?"
So far I think the average is 200mg. That is what I take.
"what is the effect on my sleep or level of energy and when do you typically take a dose of zonegran, at night or during the day?"
Zonegran made me sleepy and a little fatigued at first, but this wore off as my body adjusted to the medication. I take my dose at night to avoid any sleepiness/fatigue.
"does zonegran reduce or cause anxiety as a side effect?"
It has very little side effects at all and is considered a very "clean" drug. For me it has a calming effect, as well as a strong anti-depressant effect.
"has anyone experienced weight gain or loss while being administered zonegran?"
I have experienced weight loss while taking Zonegran.
Hope this helps a little and good luck!
Sooshi
Posted by jtevers on July 21, 2004, at 20:30:05
In reply to Re: neurontin to zonegran : weight loss, anxiety ? » jtevers, posted by SLS on July 18, 2004, at 20:19:04
Scott, terry, sooshi, and everyone:
> How does Neurontin help you? In what ways does it improve your condition? Are you convinced that it is Neurontin and not Seroquel that is providing you with mood stability? I'm just trying to get a better idea as to how effective Neurontin really is as a mood stabilizer. There are so many conflicting opinions.
scott, sooshi, and terry,
thanx so much for your responses...they have been tremendously helpful.
SCOTT, i have been on neurontin as a mood stablizer since 2000 and while i am not convinced it is very potent, i do believe it is doing a little to stabilize me. it seems to be a more moderate anti-anxiety agent in my case. i continue to believe, though, that a greater amount of my current stability is due to the antipsychotic i am taking (seroquel). i have read occasionally that either of these drugs (seroquel or neurontin) may be behind my hefty weight gain?
TERRY, which is why i have repeatedly attempted to get on ziprasidone (supposedly causes only slight to no weight gain). i experience severe depression with geodon, too, but this was remedied, although not completely, with a small (75 mg.) dose of wellbutrin that only comprimises the effectiveness of the geodon slightly (wellbutrin is pro-dopaminergic and, therefore, activates psychosis in some). i also take ambien for sleep since geodon's "activating" nature keeps me wide awake. i am not tremendously comfortable on this combination, but time and effort will perhaps allow me to lose a little weight.
SOOSHI, thanx again for all the insight. you have all been really helpful. i continue to wonder though...
IS zonegran equally effective in mania as it is in depression? i ocassionally experience both, though mania usually prevails. and...
IS zonegran a GABA drug like neurontin? i am afraid to experience rebound panic and anxiety if i come off the neurontin and don't treat it with something else. (i tried coming off neurontin once before, but was struck with panic and anxiety attacks)
THANX AGAIN everyone
Posted by sooshi on July 22, 2004, at 20:59:15
In reply to Re: neurontin to zonegran : weight loss, anxiety ?, posted by jtevers on July 21, 2004, at 20:30:05
I found this in the literature...I remembered reading something about GABA.
"in vitro studies have demonstrated that zonisamide (10-30 ug/mL) suppresses synaptically-driven electrical activity without affecting postsynaptic GABA or glutamate responses (cultured mouse spinal cord neurons) or neuronal or glial uptake of [3H]-GABA (rat hippocampal slices). Thus, zonisamide does not appear to potentiate the synaptic activity of GABA."
Not really sure what that means, but maybe you do! Hope it helps to answer your question,
Sooshi
Posted by saralyn on July 23, 2004, at 10:33:51
In reply to Re: neurontin to zonegran : weight loss, anxiety ? » jtevers, posted by sooshi on July 22, 2004, at 20:59:15
Is itching a normal reaction when one first starts taking zonegran? I was itching (no visible rash) for a week before I finally stopped it for fear of SJS. I'm wondering if maybe I gave up too soon.
Thanks!
Posted by SLS on July 23, 2004, at 10:45:36
In reply to Re: neurontin to zonegran : weight loss, anxiety ?, posted by saralyn on July 23, 2004, at 10:33:51
> Is itching a normal reaction when one first starts taking zonegran? I was itching (no visible rash) for a week before I finally stopped it for fear of SJS. I'm wondering if maybe I gave up too soon.
> Thanks!
I developed intense itching with Zonegran too, but it only occurs after taking a hot shower. I am currently taking 200mg. Since I have reduced the water temperature of my showers, it hasn't been a problem - yet.Have you experienced tiredness or fatigue?
- Scott
Posted by saralyn on July 23, 2004, at 23:04:25
In reply to Re: neurontin to zonegran : weight loss, anxiety ?, posted by SLS on July 23, 2004, at 10:45:36
I only took it for a week, because I was afraid that perhaps I was allergic to sulfa drugs and the itching was pretty bad at the time. Yes, I was incredibly fatigued. During that week on Zonegran I had one run where I bonked during a 12-miler, which had never happened before (I normally handle that distance quite easily). How long have you been on Zonegran now, are you still tired and itching at all? Did you start out at 200mg?
> I developed intense itching with Zonegran too, but it only occurs after taking a hot shower. I am currently taking 200mg. Since I have reduced the water temperature of my showers, it hasn't been a problem - yet.
>
> Have you experienced tiredness or fatigue?
>
>
> - Scott
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