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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 828 to 852 of 1313. Go back in thread:
Posted by Pianobeth on May 5, 2004, at 0:54:02
In reply to Vitamins, Herbs, Success, posted by Marjean on April 9, 2004, at 11:53:22
HELP!!!! I am going off effexor...have been totally free of it for 6 days...I'm screaming at my kids, crying alot, really, really tired...using benedryl to help counter the head zaps and other wierd feelings removing effexor from my body generates....will this get better? would taking St. John's wort help? can anyone give me hope that this will end soon....? Thanks.
Posted by chemist on May 5, 2004, at 1:00:35
In reply to Re: Vitamins, Herbs, Success » Marjean, posted by Pianobeth on May 5, 2004, at 0:54:02
> HELP!!!! I am going off effexor...have been totally free of it for 6 days...I'm screaming at my kids, crying alot, really, really tired...using benedryl to help counter the head zaps and other wierd feelings removing effexor from my body generates....will this get better? would taking St. John's wort help? can anyone give me hope that this will end soon....? Thanks.
hi marjean, chemist here.....make sure your benedryl is free of pseudoephedrine and is pure (active ingredient) diphenhydramine. don't go with st. john's wort, too many questions still unanswered on that....if you are predisposed to herbal remedies, try valerian or kava kava, but equal precaution as with st. john's wort...yes, it will end soon....your brain needs to readjust to being without the effexor....give it some time, stay calm, and back off on caffeine/nicotine (if used) in the immediate future. you will be fine! with warmest wishes, chemist
Posted by Morgaine on May 5, 2004, at 1:44:39
In reply to Re: Happy with Effexor » Morgaine, posted by TanyaJean on May 4, 2004, at 17:08:22
> "I don't deny that SOME have had a bad experience with getting off this POWERFUL medication, AND I will NOT deny that many doctors give the stuff out because a pharmacutical rep told them it was the latest wonder drug and they haven't researched the side effects. "
>
> Think this was the case with my internal med doctor. Instead of a pharmacutical rep, it was an affiliated mental health clinic. The head psychiatrist would come and speak with them once a month. It gives them an overview, but again I think it's not something they should just be handing out.Nothing like a little common sense people, just taper off very slowly,
daily. I believe that between now and mid July there will be
laws ready to get placed that will make the prescribing
physician responsible for explaining the withdrawl process.
I suppose the reason this does not happen now is because the patient
is just getting started on something hopefull, so why talk about
when they should stop it? I still feel that some folks
just do not want to take responsibility for their choices.
Why even agree to start something and do it, if you're
really doubtful about it and ready to blame should
it less than meet your expectations? 'Nuf sed
Posted by Morgaine on May 5, 2004, at 1:52:43
In reply to Re: Vitamins, Herbs, Success » Marjean, posted by Pianobeth on May 5, 2004, at 0:54:02
> HELP!!!! I am going off effexor...have been totally free of it for 6 days...I'm screaming at my kids, crying alot, really, really tired...using benedryl to help counter the head zaps and other wierd feelings removing effexor from my body generates....will this get better? would taking St. John's wort help? can anyone give me hope that this will end soon....? Thanks.
How are you going off of it? Extremely 'GRADUALLY"
right? If not, this is why you are suffering so extremely.
If you were up to the highest dosage, you begin by removing one pill
each day for a week, then the next week you do the same and so on
and so on, 'til you are down to none, all done 'GRADUALLY'.
What you are going through 'This too shall pass'.
Posted by seeknsolace on May 5, 2004, at 4:41:21
In reply to Re: Vitamins, Herbs, Success, posted by Morgaine on May 5, 2004, at 1:52:43
> > HELP!!!! I am going off effexor...have been totally free of it for 6 days...I'm screaming at my kids, crying alot, really, really tired...using benedryl to help counter the head zaps and other wierd feelings removing effexor from my body generates....will this get better? would taking St. John's wort help? can anyone give me hope that this will end soon....? Thanks.
>
> How are you going off of it? Extremely 'GRADUALLY"
> right? If not, this is why you are suffering so extremely.
> If you were up to the highest dosage, you begin by removing one pill
> each day for a week, then the next week you do the same and so on
> and so on, 'til you are down to none, all done 'GRADUALLY'.
> What you are going through 'This too shall pass'.Yep, what tanya and chemist said. Even tho I came off slowly.. reducing for 2 weeks, til there was nothing left to reduce to, I still was quite ill, but knowing I would be, I got on 10 mgs of prozac for ten days.. after stopping effexor.. to help with the withdrawals, it did help and there was no ill effects from having both in my system. Felt sick again after the prozac but it was tolerable. Been on 5-htp for 4 days now, I feel signifigantly better, but then too been drugged up on cold medicine, but as I said before, any symptoms of withdrawal, if they are still there, are masked by my cold I been having for the last few days. Been off effexor for something like 3 wks and counting, doing much better then day one.
It does get better, but you have to understand you, just as your body had to adapt to taking effexor, now it has to adapt to not having it.. hence messing with the chemical balances in your brain.. effecting how you feel physically and emotionally.. it will come back into balance.
Dont feel bad for yelling at your kids, just try to explain to them "mommy doesnt feel well." or if theyre older, try to tell them whats going on and either way, let them know you need them to help you, by being more responsible, behaving.. etc.
I'm not real clear on this and some of you may disagree, but I suggest trying to take 5-htp for 2 maybe 3 days, and see how you react to it. I take one 50 mg tablet just prior to bed.. I really believe its helping. From what I understand, its a natural seratonin.. not quite sure what that means, but it comes from a plant like st johns. St johns has done very minimal for me in the past. If you have a bad reaction after a couple days, then stop taking it. Its cheap and might be worth a try.
Posted by Pianobeth on May 5, 2004, at 6:45:18
In reply to Re: Vitamins, Herbs, Success, posted by seeknsolace on May 5, 2004, at 4:41:21
> > > HELP!!!! I am going off effexor...have been totally free of it for 6 days...I'm screaming at my kids, crying alot, really, really tired...using benedryl to help counter the head zaps and other wierd feelings removing effexor from my body generates....will this get better? would taking St. John's wort help? can anyone give me hope that this will end soon....? Thanks.
> >
> > How are you going off of it? Extremely 'GRADUALLY"
> > right? If not, this is why you are suffering so extremely.
> > If you were up to the highest dosage, you begin by removing one pill
> > each day for a week, then the next week you do the same and so on
> > and so on, 'til you are down to none, all done 'GRADUALLY'.
> > What you are going through 'This too shall pass'.
>
> Yep, what tanya and chemist said. Even tho I came off slowly.. reducing for 2 weeks, til there was nothing left to reduce to, I still was quite ill, but knowing I would be, I got on 10 mgs of prozac for ten days.. after stopping effexor.. to help with the withdrawals, it did help and there was no ill effects from having both in my system. Felt sick again after the prozac but it was tolerable. Been on 5-htp for 4 days now, I feel signifigantly better, but then too been drugged up on cold medicine, but as I said before, any symptoms of withdrawal, if they are still there, are masked by my cold I been having for the last few days. Been off effexor for something like 3 wks and counting, doing much better then day one.
>
> It does get better, but you have to understand you, just as your body had to adapt to taking effexor, now it has to adapt to not having it.. hence messing with the chemical balances in your brain.. effecting how you feel physically and emotionally.. it will come back into balance.
>
> Dont feel bad for yelling at your kids, just try to explain to them "mommy doesnt feel well." or if theyre older, try to tell them whats going on and either way, let them know you need them to help you, by being more responsible, behaving.. etc.
>
> I'm not real clear on this and some of you may disagree, but I suggest trying to take 5-htp for 2 maybe 3 days, and see how you react to it. I take one 50 mg tablet just prior to bed.. I really believe its helping. From what I understand, its a natural seratonin.. not quite sure what that means, but it comes from a plant like st johns. St johns has done very minimal for me in the past. If you have a bad reaction after a couple days, then stop taking it. Its cheap and might be worth a try.
>
>
Thanks all! Pianobeth here. Yep, I went off Effexor slowly from 150 mg to 75 to 37.5 to 18.75 to eyeballing the little dots (half of 18.75) to nothing over the course of 10 days.
It's probably not helping that my husband's job has been outsourced (shipped to India via IBM)and finances are tight...and at 2a.m. everything looks pretty hopeless....but now, this a.m. it is sunny, warm, I plan to take a walk with my kids...
I realize I am getting back in touch with my true, drug free, self...and it takes time. I do keep reminding myself "This too, shall pass"
Have a great day. By the way, I'm reading a great book called "Undoing Depression" I'd recommend it.
Posted by TanyaJean on May 5, 2004, at 13:31:27
In reply to Re: Happy with Effexor, posted by Morgaine on May 5, 2004, at 1:44:39
>
> Nothing like a little common sense people, just taper off very slowly,
> daily. I believe that between now and mid July there will be
> laws ready to get placed that will make the prescribing
> physician responsible for explaining the withdrawl process.
> I suppose the reason this does not happen now is because the patient
> is just getting started on something hopefull, so why talk about
> when they should stop it? I still feel that some folks
> just do not want to take responsibility for their choices.
> Why even agree to start something and do it, if you're
> really doubtful about it and ready to blame should
> it less than meet your expectations? 'Nuf sed
Well, can't speak for anyone else, but you know, I didn't have doubts about EFFEXOR because I had been on other anti-depressants and really thought this was another in the long line of them. How are we to know unless we experience it?Sure, NOW those of us who had bad reactions know, but there was no way for us to know then.
And yes, I did taper off SLOWLY. 4 total months of slowly tapering off EFFEXOR, little by little.
It's pretty difficult for me to sit around and tell people they should take responsibility and feel smug, especially since a lot of us had no clue this was going to happen to us.
Trust me, had I had any idea, I would never have touched it.
Posted by TanyaJean on May 5, 2004, at 15:52:12
In reply to Re: Vitamins, Herbs, Success » Marjean, posted by Pianobeth on May 5, 2004, at 0:54:02
" HELP!!!! I am going off effexor...have been totally free of it for 6 days...I'm screaming at my kids, crying alot, really, really tired...using benedryl to help counter the head zaps and other wierd feelings removing effexor from my body generates....will this get better? would taking St. John's wort help? can anyone give me hope that this will end soon....? Thanks."
Wait a sec, did I post that? I totally agree with chemist about the valerian. It's great stuff. I bought just the root and made it into tea. It smells awful. Thought I had something rotten in the fridge. I've seen the capsules so that's probably the way to go. I've seen a lot of people on here talk about 5-htp. Someone else I know recommended the Jarrow brand 5-htp, (100 mg) for me for something totally different. I ordered it. I have no idea if it works but want to try it. My friend takes it at night and other people have posted on here that within a day or two they feel a lot better.
It's really hard to come off of this stuff and be around people at the same time. I don't know how supportive your significant other is or if you have anyone to support you, but sleep as much as you can and have as much alone time as you can. Someone else told me to drink a lot of water.
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 5, 2004, at 16:00:00
In reply to Re: Vitamins, Herbs, Success » seeknsolace, posted by Pianobeth on May 5, 2004, at 6:45:18
> I'm reading a great book called "Undoing Depression" I'd recommend it.
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 5, 2004, at 16:03:20
In reply to Re: Vitamins, Herbs, Success, posted by TanyaJean on May 5, 2004, at 15:52:12
> I totally agree with chemist about the valerian...
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding alternative treatments to Psycho-Babble Alternative. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20040418/msgs/343731.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by TJB on May 5, 2004, at 17:21:25
In reply to Fluoxetine (Prozac) offen relieves withdrawal » Sinaminika, posted by harryp on May 4, 2004, at 3:36:08
Oh my God yeah. Prozac is great for getting off Effexor. And it really doesn't take much of it. I think I had to take 20mg maybe twice and I was home free. Before that I had horrible withdrawals.....The shocks...etc.etc.
Posted by Morgaine on May 5, 2004, at 18:19:39
In reply to Re: Happy with Effexor, posted by TanyaJean on May 5, 2004, at 13:31:27
>
> >
> > Nothing like a little common sense people, just taper off very slowly,
> > daily. I believe that between now and mid July there will be
> > laws ready to get placed that will make the prescribing
> > physician responsible for explaining the withdrawl process.
> > I suppose the reason this does not happen now is because the patient
> > is just getting started on something hopefull, so why talk about
> > when they should stop it? I still feel that some folks
> > just do not want to take responsibility for their choices.
> > Why even agree to start something and do it, if you're
> > really doubtful about it and ready to blame should
> > it less than meet your expectations? 'Nuf sed
>
>
> Well, can't speak for anyone else, but you know, I didn't have doubts about EFFEXOR because I had been on other anti-depressants and really thought this was another in the long line of them. How are we to know unless we experience it?
>
> Sure, NOW those of us who had bad reactions know, but there was no way for us to know then.
>
> And yes, I did taper off SLOWLY. 4 total months of slowly tapering off EFFEXOR, little by little.
>
> It's pretty difficult for me to sit around and tell people they should take responsibility and feel smug, especially since a lot of us had no clue this was going to happen to us.
>
> Trust me, had I had any idea, I would never have touched it.I do understand what you are saying. The way you feel
about your effexor experience is how I feel about my Wellbutrin
experience. "Had I had any idea, I would never have touched it".
This whole take it Oprah stuff, is just surreal to
me. I apologize for sounding smug, I sure don't feel smug.
Take care.
Posted by maxziggy2002 on May 7, 2004, at 23:06:08
In reply to Effexor withdrawal - very bad news, posted by janey on November 1, 1998, at 16:30:34
But don't take my word for it.
If you're looking for an alternative to being an anti-depressant zombie for the rest of your life, check out these two authors, both of whom are doctors.
Kathleen DesMaisons, PhD:
http://www.webheights.net/depression/desmaisons/pnp.htm
and
http://www.radiantrecovery.com/7steps.htmlJoseph Glenmullen, MD
http://www.prozacbacklash.com/
Posted by TanyaJean on May 8, 2004, at 1:50:06
In reply to You don't need anti-depressants!, posted by maxziggy2002 on May 7, 2004, at 23:06:08
> But don't take my word for it.
>
> If you're looking for an alternative to being an anti-depressant zombie for the rest of your life, check out these two authors, both of whom are doctors.
>
> Kathleen DesMaisons, PhD:
>
> http://www.webheights.net/depression/desmaisons/pnp.htm
> and
> http://www.radiantrecovery.com/7steps.html
>
> Joseph Glenmullen, MD
> http://www.prozacbacklash.com/**As funny as the above may sound to people, I've heard quite a bit about that potato thing in regards to weight. Cutting out the sugars and starches basically, but having a potato at night to help people lose weight. Back when Fen-Fen was getting bad press, I remember seeing something about a woman who was eating a lot more protein, cutting out the white breads, sugars and starches, but eating a potato when she got home from work. It raised the seratonin levels. So it makes sense what this woman is saying about it affecting the mood factor. Right now I'm doing the South Beach diet. Sounds trendy, but it's really something that makes sense. First two weeks it's a lot of protein and vegetables, but then you introduce whole grain breads and non-tropical fruit into your diet. I happen to like tropical fruits though. I'm a sugar-a-holic so I know this has a lot to do with my moods. This is the whole reason I'm doing this South Beach thing, to hopefully get on track with my energy and mood level. I like it because it goes along with my vegetarian thing, whereas something like Atkins just does not.
Posted by chemist on May 8, 2004, at 2:11:07
In reply to Re: You don't need anti-depressants! » maxziggy2002, posted by TanyaJean on May 8, 2004, at 1:50:06
> > But don't take my word for it.
> >
> > If you're looking for an alternative to being an anti-depressant zombie for the rest of your life, check out these two authors, both of whom are doctors.
> >
> > Kathleen DesMaisons, PhD:
> >
> > http://www.webheights.net/depression/desmaisons/pnp.htm
> > and
> > http://www.radiantrecovery.com/7steps.html
> >
> > Joseph Glenmullen, MD
> > http://www.prozacbacklash.com/
>
> **As funny as the above may sound to people, I've heard quite a bit about that potato thing in regards to weight. Cutting out the sugars and starches basically, but having a potato at night to help people lose weight. Back when Fen-Fen was getting bad press, I remember seeing something about a woman who was eating a lot more protein, cutting out the white breads, sugars and starches, but eating a potato when she got home from work. It raised the seratonin levels. So it makes sense what this woman is saying about it affecting the mood factor. Right now I'm doing the South Beach diet. Sounds trendy, but it's really something that makes sense. First two weeks it's a lot of protein and vegetables, but then you introduce whole grain breads and non-tropical fruit into your diet. I happen to like tropical fruits though. I'm a sugar-a-holic so I know this has a lot to do with my moods. This is the whole reason I'm doing this South Beach thing, to hopefully get on track with my energy and mood level. I like it because it goes along with my vegetarian thing, whereas something like Atkins just does not.
>
>
>
>
hi there, chemist here....a very cursory scan of lit on pubmed came up with the potato as a negative in re: serotonin *content*, but carbohydrates *in general* stimulate serotonin release....all the best, chemist
Posted by harryp on May 8, 2004, at 7:18:57
In reply to You don't need anti-depressants!, posted by maxziggy2002 on May 7, 2004, at 23:06:08
Posted by maxziggy2002 on May 8, 2004, at 12:30:59
In reply to Re: You don't need anti-depressants! » TanyaJean, posted by chemist on May 8, 2004, at 2:11:07
Here's an excerpt from Desmaisons' book:
"What is the potato doing for my neurochemistry?
The potato is simply creating an insulin response, which has an effect on the movement of the amino acid tryptophan from your blood into your brain. Why do we care about that? Because your body uses tryptophan to make serotonin. Serotonin is the brain chemical that makes you feel mellow and happy. It also helps you to "just say no" to sweets and other things by putting the brakes on your impulsivity."
Carbohydrates, on the other hand, are an artificial source of serotonin. That's why we feel good when we eat them, and why we overeat them. It's also why many of us feel so tired all the time. Carbs have an extremely short "half-life": you'll crash almost right after eating them. Have you ever eaten a 2 pound bag of celery? Probably not, because there are no carbohydrates in it.
What Desmaisons is saying is that we need to eliminate the artificial sources of serotonin, namely sugar and other carbohydrates, from our diet to allow our bodies to start manufacturing their own supply. So the fact that carbohydrates test high for serotonin is the reason that you SHOULDN'T eat them.
Posted by TanyaJean on May 8, 2004, at 12:36:20
In reply to Re: You don't need anti-depressants! » TanyaJean, posted by chemist on May 8, 2004, at 2:11:07
"hi there, chemist here....a very cursory scan of lit on pubmed came up with the potato as a negative in re: serotonin *content*, but carbohydrates *in general* stimulate serotonin release....all the best, chemist "
Yeah, but I'd rather do the potato thing because if I eat a donut or chips, then it would be going down that path of bad eating again, for me. Just a potato and then you are done. I haven't done this, but I may in a couple of weeks. Wouldn't hurt to try.
Posted by TanyaJean on May 8, 2004, at 12:52:37
In reply to The potato: Chemist, posted by maxziggy2002 on May 8, 2004, at 12:30:59
" Here's an excerpt from Desmaisons' book:
>
> "What is the potato doing for my neurochemistry?
>
> The potato is simply creating an insulin response, which has an effect on the movement of the amino acid tryptophan from your blood into your brain. Why do we care about that? Because your body uses tryptophan to make serotonin. Serotonin is the brain chemical that makes you feel mellow and happy. It also helps you to "just say no" to sweets and other things by putting the brakes on your impulsivity."
>
>
>
> Carbohydrates, on the other hand, are an artificial source of serotonin. That's why we feel good when we eat them, and why we overeat them. It's also why many of us feel so tired all the time. Carbs have an extremely short "half-life": you'll crash almost right after eating them. Have you ever eaten a 2 pound bag of celery? Probably not, because there are no carbohydrates in it.
>
> What Desmaisons is saying is that we need to eliminate the artificial sources of serotonin, namely sugar and other carbohydrates, from our diet to allow our bodies to start manufacturing their own supply. So the fact that carbohydrates test high for serotonin is the reason that you SHOULDN'T eat them."Isn't the above what anti-depressants do?
Posted by chemist on May 8, 2004, at 13:09:24
In reply to The potato: Chemist, posted by maxziggy2002 on May 8, 2004, at 12:30:59
um, thanks.....carbohydrates and sugars are not, as you state, an artificial source of serotonin: they contain no serotonin at all....and my post earlier stated that the actual serotonin content in potatos appears to be slim to none....and carbohydrates do *not* ``test high'' for serotonin, as you assert: upon consuming carbohydrates, serotonin production is stimulated.....all the best, chemist
> Here's an excerpt from Desmaisons' book:
>
> "What is the potato doing for my neurochemistry?
>
> The potato is simply creating an insulin response, which has an effect on the movement of the amino acid tryptophan from your blood into your brain. Why do we care about that? Because your body uses tryptophan to make serotonin. Serotonin is the brain chemical that makes you feel mellow and happy. It also helps you to "just say no" to sweets and other things by putting the brakes on your impulsivity."
>
>
>
> Carbohydrates, on the other hand, are an artificial source of serotonin. That's why we feel good when we eat them, and why we overeat them. It's also why many of us feel so tired all the time. Carbs have an extremely short "half-life": you'll crash almost right after eating them. Have you ever eaten a 2 pound bag of celery? Probably not, because there are no carbohydrates in it.
>
> What Desmaisons is saying is that we need to eliminate the artificial sources of serotonin, namely sugar and other carbohydrates, from our diet to allow our bodies to start manufacturing their own supply. So the fact that carbohydrates test high for serotonin is the reason that you SHOULDN'T eat them.
Posted by chemist on May 8, 2004, at 13:12:20
In reply to Re: You don't need anti-depressants!, posted by TanyaJean on May 8, 2004, at 12:36:20
> "hi there, chemist here....a very cursory scan of lit on pubmed came up with the potato as a negative in re: serotonin *content*, but carbohydrates *in general* stimulate serotonin release....all the best, chemist "
>
>
> Yeah, but I'd rather do the potato thing because if I eat a donut or chips, then it would be going down that path of bad eating again, for me. Just a potato and then you are done. I haven't done this, but I may in a couple of weeks. Wouldn't hurt to try.absolutely, i agree, and 1 potato vs. a bag of chips or some doughnuts is clearly a healthier choice.....all the best, chemist
Posted by maxziggy2002 on May 8, 2004, at 14:24:58
In reply to Re: The potato: Chemist » maxziggy2002, posted by chemist on May 8, 2004, at 13:09:24
Yes, I wrote that last post off without thinking about it first.
But let's agree that neither of us have the expertise to explain the biochemistry involved. That's why I provided the links to those who do.
If you're interested in understanding how anti-depressants work, which is not the same as the potato theory, check out the introduction to Glenmullen's book, which is available online at http://www.prozacbacklash.com/pdf/prozBackIntro.pdf
Posted by chemist on May 8, 2004, at 15:29:46
In reply to Re: The potato, posted by maxziggy2002 on May 8, 2004, at 14:24:58
sorry, but i'm not going to agree that i lack the expertise for biochemical discussions. i will state that i am not any expert in many fields, but am indeed quite well-qualified in serveral. i will also state that although i am misinformed on certain issues such as whether or not, say, mirtazapine is a SSRI, i am not at all misinformed on biochemical mechanisms or drug structure/property relationships. the distinction is clear: there are many, many posts regarding things like ``what receptors are targeted by (some compound)?,'' which generates responses distilled from the literature (mostly). there are fewer posts that ask ``how exactly does this drug work?,'' and my understanding of these matters - especially for certain classes of drugs - is quite coherent and i have provided numerous detailed posts concerning, for instance, which sub-units of the type-A GABA receptor are implicated in benzodiazepine binding, and the chloride-gating associated with GABA-flooding of the synapse....all the best, chemist
> Yes, I wrote that last post off without thinking about it first.
>
> But let's agree that neither of us have the expertise to explain the biochemistry involved. That's why I provided the links to those who do.
>
> If you're interested in understanding how anti-depressants work, which is not the same as the potato theory, check out the introduction to Glenmullen's book, which is available online at http://www.prozacbacklash.com/pdf/prozBackIntro.pdf
Posted by maxziggy2002 on May 8, 2004, at 18:52:25
In reply to Re: The potato » maxziggy2002, posted by chemist on May 8, 2004, at 15:29:46
Forgive me "chemist". What did you say your PhD was in, neurology, psychology, or biochemistry?
Posted by seeknsolace on May 8, 2004, at 19:46:13
In reply to Re: The potato » maxziggy2002, posted by chemist on May 8, 2004, at 15:29:46
chemist, I dont want to interupt the thread going on here, but after you previously posted your very indepth experiences.. types of meds you been on.. etc. I am wondering if you can give me some input on something, if you dont mind thru email.. if not its cool.. lemme know. kalka_a@yahoo.com
thanx.
amy
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