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Posted by katia on April 18, 2004, at 0:45:17
In reply to Re: OCD or BP?, posted by Minnie-Haha on April 11, 2004, at 17:25:50
Minnie,
In response to your questions; I haven't been dxed as ADD and I've never had an IQ test. I have been dxed as BPII and I'm 33. All the info out there about SID is about children. And yes, this definitely started for me as a child; but has been relentless ever since.Katia
> > For me it's more about noise. I feel caged and induces anxiety when I'm stuck listening to unpleasant sounds. or a wierd one is when people jitter or shake their legs. it's been murder being a student. I'm surrounded by people shaking their legs during class. I can't explain it, but it drives me insane. I remember the first time it bothered me when I was 11 in a classroom and a big boy next to me shook his leg sooo fast all the time it drove me mad.
>
> Here's something to throw in the mix. Have you considered that you might be simply hyper-sensitive to some forms of sensory input? This heightened state of awareness is called being "hypervigilant" and it is related to Sensory Integration Disorder (or DSI). Are you gifted? There is also a lot of what is called "overexcitabilty" in the gifted. Finally, do yo have an attention disorder? That is, are you easily distracted by things that others can tune out?
>
> These are all similar and perhaps inter-related and maybe easy to mistake one for the other or have more than one. I have been learning about them over the past year or two because my son has some developmental problems -- and he's gifted -- and it's really made me stop and look at what I THOUGHT was "wrong" with me. I've changed my attitude about what is normal and abnormal and about (the subjectivity of) DXs!
>
Posted by Pfinstegg on April 18, 2004, at 12:17:53
In reply to SID p.s., posted by katia on April 18, 2004, at 0:45:17
My son was diagnosed with sensory integration disorder when he was 7; his symptoms sound a lot like yours. Among the many things we did was to go to an occupational therapist who specialized in treating that; we also learned a lot of the exercises and did them at home. His nervous system has really matured, and he doesn't have any of the symptoms any more- he seems comfortable now even with a lot of sensory input. By the way, he's a physics grad student, and gifted.
Posted by katia on April 18, 2004, at 14:50:27
In reply to Re: SID p.s., posted by Pfinstegg on April 18, 2004, at 12:17:53
Hi,
What sort of exercises? Is there any medication out there too, in conjunction? It's good to catch it at 7; I imagine that the exercises would work. I'm 33 and have been tormented all my life by this - whatever "this" is. Sounds like SID. I just can't imagine exercises would reverse or heal this. It feels too ingrained. I don't really have insurance, so to go to an OT sounds very expensive. How long does the treatment last and how accurate are the diagnostic tools? Do psychiatrists deal w/ this at all?
Thanks-
Katia
Posted by simus on April 18, 2004, at 14:57:41
In reply to Re: SID p.s., posted by Pfinstegg on April 18, 2004, at 12:17:53
What kind of exercises???
> My son was diagnosed with sensory integration disorder when he was 7; his symptoms sound a lot like yours. Among the many things we did was to go to an occupational therapist who specialized in treating that; we also learned a lot of the exercises and did them at home. His nervous system has really matured, and he doesn't have any of the symptoms any more- he seems comfortable now even with a lot of sensory input. By the way, he's a physics grad student, and gifted.
Posted by katia on April 18, 2004, at 15:01:06
In reply to Re: SID p.s., posted by Pfinstegg on April 18, 2004, at 12:17:53
Hi again,
So how were you able to detect his "problem". My mom bought me a white noise machine to drown out TV noises at the age of 12. And beyond that, everyone just thought my behavior and intolerance were neurotic and difficult. No one seemed to question whether something deeper was going on. Noises and wiggling feet drove/drive me mad. But also at the same time (around 11), I remember my first depression - very existential - questioning religion and life, etc. w/ great sadness and fear. My first phobias came up (fear of spiders, losing my hair, and of cancer). I was terrified all the time. Again, no one seemed to think about outside help as a possibility; they just tried to talk w/ me about my fears. But all these things seem to happen w/in a year or two of each other. So I've always hidden these wierd "neurosis" as best as I could b/c they are so embarrassing. It's been hell trying to not let myself be bothered and go to extremes to get away from the input when I've lived w/ boyfriends; while hiding it. They've thought I'm neurotic, uptight, and let little things bother me. I haven't been able to explain it to anyone, even my pdoc! Be/c it's hard to describe. What do you do w/ this wierdness? Now, it seems there is a reason for it. But during my last two years journey into getting a dx finally for bipolar/depression, I assumed these "neuroses" would go away w/ the depression and anxiety. It feels really related; but they haven't. They are exacerbated by the lows or agitations for sure.Any input anyone can give would be greatly appreciated!
Thank you,
Katia
Posted by katia on April 18, 2004, at 15:02:16
In reply to Re: SID p.s. » Pfinstegg, posted by simus on April 18, 2004, at 14:57:41
Simus,
Do you suffer from this? If so, what have been your experiences? I'm just realizing this could be something I"m dealing w/. In other words, what I've been dealing w/ has a name.
Katia
Posted by katia on April 18, 2004, at 15:10:03
In reply to Re: SID p.s., posted by Pfinstegg on April 18, 2004, at 12:17:53
Sorry, one more thing. Did ALL input bother him OR just some? I'm bothered by a TV that is on that I'm not watching, but watching it doesn't bother me, along as it's not too loud. Commercials I can't tolerate. Bad noises, like car stereos of other cars bother me, not my own. But I play nice music! It feels like an invansion from the outside - like I don't feel safe. I go into this fight or flight terror. Nice noises, like birds and water flowing, wind blowing, I live for. So it's not all noises; just alarming intrusive ones.
Does that sound about right?
Katia
Posted by simus on April 18, 2004, at 19:53:01
In reply to Re: SID p.s. » simus, posted by katia on April 18, 2004, at 15:02:16
> Do you suffer from this? If so, what have been your experiences?
Katia,
Read my posts on this thread on April 6. They explain my experiences.
Simus
Posted by simus on April 18, 2004, at 19:55:17
In reply to Re: SID p.s., posted by Pfinstegg on April 18, 2004, at 12:17:53
> My son was diagnosed with sensory integration disorder when he was 7;
I was just wondering, did your son have colic as a baby?
Posted by Pfinstegg on April 18, 2004, at 20:51:15
In reply to Re: SID p.s. » Pfinstegg, posted by katia on April 18, 2004, at 15:10:03
I'm sorry that I don't remember all the exercises (my son is 28 now). At home, we did things like balancing on a very large ball, and exercises which were done on a trampoline which involved changing very quickly from using one hemisphere to the other. The occupational therapist did much more sophisticated exercises when he was with her.
We used a therapist trained by Jean Ayers, who is the foiunder of sensory integration therapy. It's now done a lot more with adults than it was when my son was doing it. I do think it is worth looking into, no matter what your age, At the time we did it, our health insurance largely paid for it, although that would probably not be the case now
Posted by snapper on April 18, 2004, at 23:09:00
In reply to Re: Sensory Integration, posted by Pfinstegg on April 18, 2004, at 20:51:15
hey all, I've been following this thread for a couple of weeks now but have'nt said much because my overall mood and feelings of ill health have once again taken over ....anyhow >>> Katia we have chated back and forth before and seem to have some of the same symptomology.... even if you or I or simus had SID how would one tease out these annoying and vicsious(sp) "sound problems"?
from BP disorder and a hyper responsive 'fight or flight ' over-reaction. Also I don't think a lot of pdocs are sensitive to what really annoys us....I say this because I just convinced my doc to switch me from Klonopin to Xanax for various reasons and with in the first day, my startle response to stimuli was greatly diminished...I still contend that a lot of "our" hyper-response" to stimuli is related to 'OCD'- not saying that everyone with these problems has OCD-but once again , I will say this....BP disorder and anxiety disorders are very much intertwined, and getting effective treatment for the primary condition helps-but does'nt always solve the other problems! Also Katia , I know exactly waht you mean by pleasant sounds... but I still have to be in control of wheather or not I subject myself to those sounds, noises , or intolerances...etc. If someone has the TV on a loud and annoying station-sometimes it is all I can do to tell them to turn the S*IT down or off or I have to leave the room. I feel mean that I am this sensitive but I guess it is better than grabbing the remote and stomping it into the ground! lol -- Also another thing, then I'll shut up (for now !) Do either of you or any of you have a problem with 'RAGE"- ie; wanting to go off on the simpilest of annnoyances but find that most of the time that you can contain yourself? That is a subtle marker (IMHO) for BP tendancies etc!
Snapper
Posted by katia on April 19, 2004, at 2:50:45
In reply to Re: Sensory Integration, posted by snapper on April 18, 2004, at 23:09:00
Hi Snapper,
To respond back to you:
\
>> Also I don't think a lot of pdocs are sensitive to what really annoys us....**I'm not actually sure yet because I've never told him about these things. To me, they've been so hidden and ingrained in my coping mechnansims that it's become a part of my life that I forgot to pinpoint even to my pdoc! I will next session guaranteed.
>>I say this because I just convinced my doc to switch me from Klonopin to Xanax for various reasons and with in the first day, my startle response to stimuli was greatly diminished...
**Um. that's interesting.
>>I still contend that a lot of "our" hyper-response" to stimuli is related to 'OCD'- not saying that everyone with these problems has OCD-but once again , I will say this....BP disorder and anxiety disorders are very much intertwined, and getting effective treatment for the primary condition helps-but does'nt always solve the other problems!
**Could be related to OCD. But mine have never really had a complusion side (except for a brief time when I was young).
>>Also Katia , I know exactly waht you mean by pleasant sounds... but I still have to be in control of wheather or not I subject myself to those sounds, noises , or intolerances...etc. If someone has the TV on a loud and annoying station-sometimes it is all I can do to tell them to turn the S*IT down or off or I have to leave the room. I feel mean that I am this sensitive but I guess it is better than grabbing the remote and stomping it into the ground! lol -- Also another thing, then I'll shut up (for now !) Do either of you or any of you have a problem with 'RAGE"- ie; wanting to go off on the simpilest of annnoyances but find that most of the time that you can contain yourself? That is a subtle marker (IMHO) for BP tendancies etc!
***Oh - oooo lala...the rage. You can't even EVEN imagine it. I had an all day graduate class on Saturday for 88888888 (eight!) hours and one man sat w/ his legs crossed constantly wiggling his foot throughout the entire 8 hours. I thought I was going to jump up and kick the *hit out of his foot screaming/howling at him to stop torturing me!!!!!!!!! I looked around at others - no one NO ONE even noticed. I mentally noted "none of you have a clue what kind of hell I'm going thru' at the moment!!!!" while still trying to remain present for the class which is very experiential. Anger, rage, uncontrollable lashing out are ALL consequences of keeping me trapped in that stimuli/sensory output. I HAVE to get away in order to get calm and rational again so I can breathe. It's totally insane. totally. and it's hell to be me.
I wish I could be cured. It's not like I haven't tried...
Katia
Posted by katia on April 19, 2004, at 2:51:43
In reply to Re: SID p.s. » katia, posted by simus on April 18, 2004, at 19:53:01
Hi Simus,
I will take a look. BTW, I noticed you asked about colic? I was premature and I had colic. Why do you ask?
Katia
Posted by katia on April 19, 2004, at 2:52:48
In reply to Re: Sensory Integration, posted by Pfinstegg on April 18, 2004, at 20:51:15
** How long did the therapy last? months, years?
thanks for your input!!! it's greatly appreciated.
katia> I'm sorry that I don't remember all the exercises (my son is 28 now). At home, we did things like balancing on a very large ball, and exercises which were done on a trampoline which involved changing very quickly from using one hemisphere to the other. The occupational therapist did much more sophisticated exercises when he was with her.
>
> We used a therapist trained by Jean Ayers, who is the foiunder of sensory integration therapy. It's now done a lot more with adults than it was when my son was doing it. I do think it is worth looking into, no matter what your age, At the time we did it, our health insurance largely paid for it, although that would probably not be the case now
Posted by katia on April 19, 2004, at 3:03:49
In reply to Re: OCD or BP? » katia, posted by simus on April 6, 2004, at 0:25:06
> > For me it's more about noise. I feel caged and induces anxiety when I'm stuck listening to unpleasant sounds. or a wierd one is when people jitter or shake their legs. it's been murder being a student. I'm surrounded by people shaking their legs during class. I can't explain it, but it drives me insane. I remember the first time it bothered me when I was 11 in a classroom and a big boy next to me shook his leg sooo fast all the time it drove me mad. And since then I can't take it (I'm 33!). It induces anger, intolerance, a feeling of being caged and subjected to torture.
>
> I understand exactly. There are things that trigger me too, like soup slurping. I literally have to leave the room if someone is slurping their soup. Or there are those who can't seem to take a drink of something without following it EVERY TIME with an "Ahhhh". Or the people who can't sneeze without some sort of a shreiking noise - that they insist they can't control it. Even the "kissing noises" on TV during a romantic scene ruin the show for me. And then there are the "gum snappers" in church, of all places. Sometimes it irritates me to the point of being afraid that I won't be able to contain myself. I know it is really MY problem, but just telling yourself to ignore it DOES NOT WORK!!!SIMUS! I'm sorryyyyy to have forgotten these posts. REALLY! Thank you for pointing me back to this direction for review. You have no idea how busy I've been. just bought a house, started a new (and 2nd) job, found housemates, started a new quarter in grad school, tore down wallpaper and painted, put together thousands of furniture, etc. etc. and I've gone crazy thru' it all w/ dogs barking!!!! hence me questioning all of this possible SID deeper and soo sorry for forgetting about our previous correspondence.
What you describe above sounds like me; but can you imagine NOT being able to leave the room of the soup slurper? That's normally things that get me to brink on the edge of insanity. When I can't leave the situation. little things that good people do drive me almost to kill them. RAGE. it's awful. Honestly ALL? Moodswings and depression is a walk in the park compared to this.
It's got to be more than BP; which is what I unfortunately experience too.So you have been dxed as OCD? Have you ever heard of or considered what we've been talking about the SID? Is it new to you too?
I actually cried when I looked at a website for SID. God. I MAY be able to get help?!
let's keep in touch.
katia
Posted by simus on April 19, 2004, at 3:38:27
In reply to Re: SID p.s. » simus, posted by katia on April 19, 2004, at 2:51:43
BTW, I noticed you asked about colic? I was premature and I had colic. Why do you ask?
My oldest daughter had colic. It started at about 1 month if I remember correctly. At around 6:00pm the screaming would start. I did everything I could to comfort her: music, car ride, carseat on running dryer, massage, etc. It all just made her scream louder. She would scream until about 9:00pm, when she would go to sleep. This happened daily at the same time every day. One day I tried something that I read. I put her in her crib in a dark room with no sound. It cut at my heart to leave her in there crying, but the magazine said she would be ok. Withing about 10 minutes, she was sleeping peacefully. It worked every time. So I think she just had too much stimulation and couldn't handle it anymore, and all my early attempts to comfort her were just making it worse. She has always been very "five-sense" sensitive. Her sense of smell is especially sensitive. Her sense of hearing was also unusually sensitive. She would always wake up to the sound of soft footsteps on the carpet. The posts here just got me thinking about this again.
Posted by simus on April 19, 2004, at 3:52:41
In reply to Re: OCD or BP? » simus, posted by katia on April 19, 2004, at 3:03:49
> I'm sorryyyyy to have forgotten these posts.
Not a problem.
> What you describe above sounds like me; but can you imagine NOT being able to leave the room of the soup slurper? That's normally things that get me to brink on the edge of insanity. When I can't leave the situation. little things that good people do drive me almost to kill them. RAGE. it's awful. Honestly ALL? Moodswings and depression is a walk in the park compared to this.I can't always leave the room either - especially bad with the gum-snappers in church. I am pretty sure the pastor would frown on me hurting someone in the middle of the sermon just because they can't seem to keep their mouth still and QUIET! Everyone seems sensitive to "fingernails on the chalkboard", but so many things for me have/had the same effect.
> So you have been dxed as OCD?
Yes.
> Have you ever heard of or considered what we've been talking about the SID? Is it new to you too?
It's all new to me.
> I actually cried when I looked at a website for SID. God. I MAY be able to get help?!
My situation is not nearly as bad as yours, but I feel for you. Good luck and God bless.
Posted by Pfinstegg on April 19, 2004, at 10:28:37
In reply to Re: SID p.s. » Pfinstegg, posted by katia on April 18, 2004, at 15:10:03
We went to the occupational therapist three times a week for four years; after that, he was so much improved that we did most of the exercises at home. just checking in with the OT about once or twice a month for six more years- until he went away to college.
He was very *colicky*, having been born a month pre-maturely, and screamed from 3 to 9 PM for the first six months. It was too much for him when we tried to comfort him, but white noise on the radio, and endless car rides, making sure we slowed down enough to avoid actually stopping at a red light, were the things that helped the most. As a child, he did not want to play with more than one child at a time, saying he got nervous and confused, and was unable to understand what anyone was talking about. Today, he is great in groups- and so much calmer. I'm so glad we persevered with the OT.
Posted by Minnie-Haha on April 19, 2004, at 13:46:31
In reply to Sensory Integration Disorder - relief???, posted by katia on April 18, 2004, at 0:42:49
> Minnie-Haha, has your son been dxed w/ anything? Is there any cure for SID?
I don't know of a cure, but there is help.
My son has been identified as gifted. He also has auditory-processing problems and sensory-processing problems (though not a DSI/SID diagnosis). He received a DX of ADHD Primarily Inattentive, which my husband and I absolutely disagree with. (I’ve done a LOT of reading on these things in the past couple of years and there are many disorders that have overlapping/sensory components, so depending on what kind of specialist you see, you can get different diagnosis: ADHD, Asperger’s Syndrome, DSI, CAPD, BP, OCD… you name it.)
You've read up about DSI (a common acronym, as SID can get confused with SIDS – sudden infant death syndrome, which is unrelated). Anyway, you've read up about DSI. Good! Try to find a group for adults with it. (I found one at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/adultsid/, but I don’t belong to it so I can’t give you any feedback.) When you find a group, ask about other conditions that have sensory symptoms and which disorders tend to be found comorbidly with DSI. In other words, do not run to embrace DSI first and only. Have you also read about the “overexcitabilities” of the gifted? Start with http://www.stephanietolan.com/dabrowskis.htm Some books to consider: The Out-of-Sync Child (does a good job of explaining what DSI is); Too Loud, Too Bright, Too Fast, Too Tight (haven’t read it yet, but want to); and The Highly Sensitive Person (haven’t read this either). All are at Amazon.com.
As for getting a DSI DX, I know OTs (occupational therapists) can give them, but not all are trained in sensory-integration testing, so you’d need to ask around. Treatment (for children anyway, and I assume it would be similar for adults) usually involves a sensory diet. This isn’t about food, though. It’s more like conditioning your body to be more properly tuned to process sensory input. You might benefit from a listening therapy.
As for psychological help, some might use behavioral or cognitive therapy to work on this stuff, but if the foundation is neurological, is that the best approach? It certainly shouldn't be the ONLY one, and I would want to know that my psychologist was, if not supportive, at least not dismissive of the diagnosis and treatment of sensory-integration disorders. One thing a psychologist could do for you is administer an IQ test. Although there is no cure for being gifted, at least it helps to put one's “abnormal” behaviors into a more positive light!
Posted by katia on April 19, 2004, at 14:28:48
In reply to Re: SID p.s. » katia, posted by simus on April 19, 2004, at 3:38:27
Hi,
Wow - interesting. That sounds like me - ultra sensitive - five, even 6th sense sensitive. I had bad colic for three months. Apparently, from what I've read - premature and colic babies are some of the ones who have SID (there's a correlation).
Katia
Posted by katia on April 19, 2004, at 14:37:48
In reply to Re: SID p.s., posted by Pfinstegg on April 19, 2004, at 10:28:37
> We went to the occupational therapist three times a week for four years; after that, he was so much improved that we did most of the exercises at home. just checking in with the OT about once or twice a month for six more years- until he went away to college.
**Wow. That isn't very encouraging! FOUR YEARS? Three times a week? Jeez....just forget it. Who has that kind of money? Ten years total? I'll be in my forties!
> He was very *colicky*, having been born a month pre-maturely, and screamed from 3 to 9 PM for the first six months. It was too much for him when we tried to comfort him, but white noise on the radio, and endless car rides, making sure we slowed down enough to avoid actually stopping at a red light, were the things that helped the most. As a child, he did not want to play with more than one child at a time, saying he got nervous and confused, and was unable to understand what anyone was talking about. Today, he is great in groups- and so much calmer. I'm so glad we persevered with the OT.
**This sounds just like me too. i had bad colic and was two months premature. I have the same experience w/ people/groups. It is interesting b/c that is generally normal, but when I'm feeling more on the manic side, it goes away. I feel calm around chaos. Mine is directly related to depression. But who knows which one comes first - the chicken or the egg? What's a result of the other?
Thanks for all of your advice and concern. BTW, why are you on PB boards? Are you dxed w/ anything?
Katia
Posted by Pfinstegg on April 19, 2004, at 20:36:58
In reply to Re: SID p.s. » Pfinstegg, posted by katia on April 19, 2004, at 14:37:48
I have Complex PTSD from childhood abuse
Posted by katia on April 20, 2004, at 2:16:25
In reply to Re: SID p.s. » katia, posted by Pfinstegg on April 19, 2004, at 20:36:58
Are you in therapy for it? Hope so. I'm sorry to hear that.
PTSD is pretty complex.
Best wishes in your recovery. Anything else you wish to share on it, I'd be open to hear.
Katia
Posted by Pfinstegg on April 20, 2004, at 8:02:37
In reply to Re: SID p.s. » Pfinstegg, posted by katia on April 20, 2004, at 2:16:25
Yes, I am. A brief look in the archives over the past year (Psychological Babble) will unearth many descriptions of my wonderful psychoanalyst and how helpful he has been.
Posted by trucker on April 20, 2004, at 18:00:58
In reply to Re: SID p.s. » katia, posted by Pfinstegg on April 19, 2004, at 20:36:58
HEY I HAVE THAT TOO!!! WISH IT WASN'T TRUE...
TRUCKER
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> I have Complex PTSD from childhood abuse
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