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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 131. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by lexman on March 29, 2004, at 20:23:39
Do antidepressants really work or are dr. and drug companies just taking our money?Thats what i hear from my brother that its all in your head and that drs just want your money.I am obcessed with taking ads.I have been on and off them for 8 years.What do i do?
Lexman
Posted by snapper on March 29, 2004, at 21:44:50
In reply to Do antidepressants really work?, posted by lexman on March 29, 2004, at 20:23:39
hey lexman, the official answer is Yes....and No
I have heard that for some where near 75-80% is just a placebo effect....however I think the reason you are obsessed w/taking them is because you and I and a whole lot of others just don't have many other options than to take them...I will add that for conditions like panic,ocd,and certain other conditions they do seem to be effective for a portion of people who take them for these reasons... I have panic, and ocd, and depression,and some bi-polar tendancies--but I am delving deep into other treatment modalities to heal my broken brain... the big thing is this: these multi-billion dollar drug companies to some degree have manufactured a lot of the {conditions, indications , labels and diagnostic codes; that seem so conveniently intertwined into very words of the DSM-IV} (The Psychiatric Bible ).... that thier wonder drugs are supposed to treat!I will admit that for some, these meds are "life savers" but for a bigger majority of people who are really suffering from some sort of "mental anemia" IMHO these pills are expensive-highly touted, Extremely and aggressivly marketed chemical versions of psuedo-happinness that just dont quite make the grade or hit the mark as much as people would like to believe that AD's 'should' do --- I am, I suppose a bit ambivelant about these drugs- But that is only because I have been on over 50 different meds in the last 14 years or so and none of them really brought me true happiness, Except for the few that made me hypo-manic....Yipppeeee!!! I want to Buy the world a Coke ..lol, hey bottom line is this if you are getting relief from AD's then keep taking them - if not then you might want to consider other options! I am saying options because after 14 yrs. and 50 different meds and med combos there is something that it is not working ( my brain !)
and for probably for the first time in my life , i AM BEING FORCED INTO LOOKING into why I became so miserable in the first place!! It is hard work! I do know meds can be helpful but for the larger majority and again IMHO believe that people are looking for normalcy or happiness in a pretty, precisely packaged neat little super pill. I am sorry that I sound soo cynical but AD's are just a double edged blade that can cut like a knife (no Pun Intended) no matter which side of the fence you happen to be on in regards to how these pills make you and I feel or NOT FEEL!! [ emphasise on NOT FEEL !]
best wishes
Snapper
Posted by snapper on March 29, 2004, at 21:52:26
In reply to Do antidepressants really work?, posted by lexman on March 29, 2004, at 20:23:39
P.S. lexman couple of other things--- yes They are taking our money and yes it definitely is IN OUR HEADS! that is the problem!! More so than the Dr.s and drug companies will admit to.I am amazed that the say they really don't know what the cause is.... "the cause is un-known ...but may be due to a chemical imbalance...!!!!" think about that one! But don't think too hard !! Your head might hurt even more than it already does!!
See Ya
Snapper
Posted by rainbowlight on March 29, 2004, at 22:26:20
In reply to Do antidepressants really work?, posted by lexman on March 29, 2004, at 20:23:39
In my opinion, if you really need them, yes they work and can help tremendously. They have helped me lead a quality of life I never could have imagined. On a scale of quality of life of 1 to 10, I would say I was about a 3-4 and I would say now about 8-9 with them. I am so much happier. Yes, I hate the side effects and I wonder what the long term effects of these meds will be on me. However, I have come to the conclusion that I would rather have 20 good years being happy than 40 years being miserable if that is the case. I think it is a quality of life issue. Go with your gut, do what feels right for YOU.
p.s. You are not the only one with a family member that thinks that anti-depressants are just made up by drug companies for profits. My own Father went so far as to tell me that there is no such thing as Bipolar, that it was made up by the drug companies to make money off the meds. (Yep, this is coming from the untreated Dad in DENIAL). Try to keep your sense of humor :)
Posted by francesco on March 30, 2004, at 5:40:16
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work?, posted by rainbowlight on March 29, 2004, at 22:26:20
> In my opinion, if you really need them, yes they work and can help tremendously. They have helped me lead a quality of life I never could have imagined. On a scale of quality of life of 1 to 10, I would say I was about a 3-4 and I would say now about 8-9 with them. I am so much happier. Yes, I hate the side effects and I wonder what the long term effects of these meds will be on me. However, I have come to the conclusion that I would rather have 20 good years being happy than 40 years being miserable if that is the case. I think it is a quality of life issue. Go with your gut, do what feels right for YOU.
Sorry, it's like a compulsion for me. When somebody tells that its quality of life is 8/9 with meds I must ask: what meds are you taking ? : )
Posted by SLS on March 30, 2004, at 12:33:46
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work?, posted by snapper on March 29, 2004, at 21:44:50
One of the problems that inevitably develops when discussing "depression" is that this one word is used to describe many things. It might be better to describe bipolar disorder and unipolar affective disorder (major depression) as being brain disorders; some of the symptoms of which resemble depression as it occurs in otherwise healthy people.
- Scott
Posted by greywolf on March 30, 2004, at 12:45:34
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work?, posted by SLS on March 30, 2004, at 12:33:46
I would say that antidepressants have "effects", but whether they "work" is a case-by-case question. I have tried a ton of different ADs, none of which had a significant enough beneficial result for BPII and OCD to be worth the side effects. Of course, many of them were SSRIs to which I generally do not respond too well.
The only way to know is to try. If you're tired of waiting for the drug that works after giving them a fair shake, then that's the answer for you.
Posted by snapper on March 30, 2004, at 16:52:59
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work?, posted by SLS on March 30, 2004, at 12:33:46
Scott, you make a very valid point-I truly believe that there is a distinction about the way in which people discuss "depression" oh I am sad or bummed or life circumstances suck etc..yes 'real depression and bi-polar disorder'
def are brain illnesses or disorders- I guess it boils down to weather it- the said disorder is caused by exogenous or endogenous factors or perhaps a combination of both! who really knows
Snapper
Posted by SLS on March 30, 2004, at 18:58:19
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work?, posted by snapper on March 30, 2004, at 16:52:59
Hi there Snapper.
> ..yes 'real depression and bi-polar disorder' def are brain illnesses or disorders- I guess it boils down to weather it- the said disorder is caused by exogenous or endogenous factors or perhaps a combination of both! who really knows
Many times, if not most often, I think it is an exogenous factor or factors (psychosocial) that precipitate and perpetuate the endogenous dysfunction that an individual is biologically vulnerable to. That is why it is so important to deal with the psychological issues that stess the brain. Using a combination of psychotherapy and chemotherapy is usually better than using either one alone.
- Scott
Posted by lelebug on March 30, 2004, at 22:38:16
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work?, posted by SLS on March 30, 2004, at 18:58:19
I would love to understand more how these drugs are suppose to work. I have been on Lexapro since Jan. After two weeks I felt fabulous. I was getting my patience back my mind wasn't racing. I was happy again. Then slowly it just started to peter out. Three weeks ago my Dr upped my dosage from 10mg to 20mg and not much has changed. I called him yesterday to see if we could up the dosage and he said to wait a couple more weeks. I wonder if this isn't the drug for me or if I just haven't hit the right dosage for me? I have wondered a lot lately if SSRI's really do work or if this was just a way to shut me up.
Posted by snapper on March 31, 2004, at 0:23:03
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work?, posted by SLS on March 30, 2004, at 18:58:19
> Hi there Snapper.
>
> > ..yes 'real depression and bi-polar disorder' def are brain illnesses or disorders- I guess it boils down to weather it- the said disorder is caused by exogenous or endogenous factors or perhaps a combination of both! who really knows
>
> Many times, if not most often, I think it is an exogenous factor or factors (psychosocial) that precipitate and perpetuate the endogenous dysfunction that an individual is biologically vulnerable to. That is why it is so important to deal with the psychological issues that stess the brain. Using a combination of psychotherapy and chemotherapy is usually better than using either one alone.
>
>
> - Scott
> Hi Scott,thanks for the reply-- I am begining to really realize the intertwined workings of exogenous and endogenous complications of which came first so to speak! -- after spending the last 13-14 years trying to "fix" my problems will pills I am now understanding that It goes much deeper than that. 50 meds plus!
I consider myself treatment resistant and possibly refractory other than the brief period of semi-sanity when I had ect. Now I am only taking the bare min of meds- and am coming to fully understand what most of my issues are- Being so resistant to meds does'nt help but I guess I will just have to ask my T weather she thinks I should be on a semi-effective anti-depressant or not so I can wade thru the emotional BS I have encounterd and endured in my life-I am not real functional on AD's and I am not real functional w/o them- one thing I have noticed in the last several weeks of being minimally medicated is the fact that even though the dep and anxiety is very strong and disabling, I seem to be able to think thru things a litle more effectively-not a clear head mind you but just that I am more away of things and problems that I guess just need to be once and for all "DEALT WITH AND RESOLVED" one way or the other!!!!! Sometimes I think that is why AD's might work is by masking the real trauma or hurts or grief in life!! God it hurts :( ...just tell me it gets better!! or maybe it does'nt!
What do you think?
Snapper
Posted by Simus on March 31, 2004, at 1:24:56
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work?, posted by snapper on March 29, 2004, at 21:44:50
Snapper,
I have been reading some of your posts, and I think you are on the right track.
Certain medications have helped me to some degree, but others, well, I am glad that those other experiences are behind me.
But I am starting to strongly believe that we need to address the underlying cause of our problems, not just put a "band-aid" on the symptoms. Yes, the drugs can help our brains use chemicals more efficiently. But why are our brains low in these chemicals in the first place?
My research keeps pointing to nutrition. I don't mean JUST a healthy lifestyle: good diet, exercise, sleep, avoiding stress, etc. But also added vitamins, minerals, amino acids, Omega oils, etc., in the right balance for OUR bodies. That is easier to say than to achieve, because so many factors come into play. How does our body digest the nutrients it gets? Are there any genetic factors that cause our bodies to not utilize certain nutrients properly? Do we have excess of certain minerals that deplete us of others? There are so many factors.
I am still on ADs. And I may be for a while yet. It is tough to figure out what your body needs nutritionally, and what it has in excess. I have found that doctors don't generally see the value in nutrition, and thus aren't greatly helpful. I don't completely blame them. The drug companies have a lot at stake, and they have the ear of the medical community. Money talks. And then there is the fact that medical insurances do not always cover "unconventional" testing and treatment. How ironic that the one thing that may save them from the ridiculous costs of ADs, they won't even consider covering.
Good luck on your journey back to health.
Posted by rainbowlight on March 31, 2004, at 3:51:06
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work? » rainbowlight, posted by francesco on March 30, 2004, at 5:40:16
Hi Francesco. I take Lamictal, Remeron, a small dose of Zoloft and Restoril for sleep. It DID take me tons and tons of med trials to get the perfect med combo for me, but it has been like night and day for me. Like a heavy cloud was lifted out of my life. I still have some rough spots, but nothing like the crippling OCD, anxiety and depression I have dealt with in the past.
Posted by SLS on March 31, 2004, at 8:56:47
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work? » snapper, posted by Simus on March 31, 2004, at 1:24:56
> But I am starting to strongly believe that we need to address the underlying cause of our problems, not just put a "band-aid" on the symptoms.
I think this is much too broad a generalization to represent depressive illness. "We" certainly does not include me. My problem has shown itself to be %100 biological. No amount of psychotherapy in the world would makes a dent in my condition. I've tried. My brief periods of wellness produced by medication have been more than simply not feeling "bummed-out". In fact, even at my worst, I usually don't experience dysphoria. I am vegetative and cognitively demented.
It seems that each individual will fit uniquely somewhere within the spectrum of mood illness, with relative contributions ranging from 100% biological to 100% psychological.
I wish my illness were 100% psychological. I wouldn't mind doing the work necessary to bring myself into remission. At least I would have some control as to how I feel.
I know - the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.
Well, I've been on the other side of the fence. I once experienced a remission for 9 months brought about by a treatment using a combination of antidepressants. Of course, it was wonderful. Cosmic. Ah, but I did get "bummed-out" from time to time during this period. However, this was a totally different experience. I got depressed over the loss of an intimate relationship. But the depression that resulted was transient and felt completely different than how I experience bipolar disorder. They were two very different beasts. As I grieved and accepted the loss, I felt better. It was so cool.
When I respond to a medication, I don't feel so much an end of depression as I do an awakening and emergence from blackness into a new and wonderful world of color.
That's just me, though.
For some people, drugs do much more than simply act as bandaids to treat outward symptoms. They hit targets closer to the underlying neurological abnormality that yields a comprehensive improvement in brain function.
- Scott
Posted by francesco on March 31, 2004, at 10:04:52
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work? - francesco, posted by rainbowlight on March 31, 2004, at 3:51:06
Thanks for answering Rainbowlight. I'm taking Zoloft too. Did you experience any sexual side effect from it ? It just my sixth day on it but it seems like all my libido is gone !!! I'm not experiencing any other side effects though, and I like it all considered ... but you know, what's the point in being undepressed if you don't want to have sex ? : )
What about Lamictal side-effects ? I should take a mood stabilzer and Lamictal is what my p-doc is suggesting ... any flattening or cognition problems ? Thanks a lot
Posted by simus on March 31, 2004, at 11:18:55
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work?, posted by SLS on March 31, 2004, at 8:56:47
Again, ?????
I highly doubt that you even read my post. It appears that you saw one line, then jumped to a wrong conclusion and stopped reading. You are trying to argue with me about something I NEVER WROTE, or for that matter even implied, or even believe. So how can I respond to that?
>> But I am starting to strongly believe that we need to address the underlying cause of our problems, not just put a "band-aid" on the symptoms.
> I think this is much too broad a generalization to represent depressive illness.
What generalization??? I was writing to another poster about our specific situations.
> "We" certainly does not include me.
Then you are very, very fortunate.
> My problem has shown itself to be %100 biological. No amount of psychotherapy in the world would makes a dent in my condition. I've tried. My brief periods of wellness produced by medication have been more than simply not feeling "bummed-out". In fact, even at my worst, I usually don't experience dysphoria. I am vegetative and cognitively demented.
Just for the record, my condition is also 100% biological. My psychiatrist ruled out the benefit of psychotherapy immediately in my case, and I have never had counseling. If you had read the rest of my post, you would have known that I am still on psychiatric drugs, and I may be for a while yet. But psychiatric drugs are not a "cure" for the subnormal amount of certain chemicals in my brain. They only aid my brain to more effectively utilize the chemicals that exist. Ultimately, I am hoping to improve my brain chemistry so that I no longer need drugs.
> It seems that each individual will fit uniquely somewhere within the spectrum of mood illness, with relative contributions ranging from 100% biological to 100% psychological.
Again, I never mentioned the psychological cause of mood disorders. I have no experience with it. But for those who do, I hear counseling is of great benefit.
> I wish my illness were 100% psychological. I wouldn't mind doing the work necessary to bring myself into remission. At least I would have some control as to how I feel. I know - the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.
I don't want the chemical imbalance, but I am not willing to trade it for something else I deem easier to deal with. I have to agree it is a case of the grass being greener...
> Well, I've been on the other side of the fence. I once experienced a remission for 9 months brought about by a treatment using a combination of antidepressants. Of course, it was wonderful. Cosmic. Ah, but I did get "bummed-out" from time to time during this period. However, this was a totally different experience. I got depressed over the loss of an intimate relationship. But the depression that resulted was transient and felt completely different than how I experience bipolar disorder. They were two very different beasts. As I grieved and accepted the loss, I felt better. It was so cool.
I a glad you were fortunate to have that "cosmic" experience. But my physical battle has been so severe that I haven't been blessed with any sort of remission. I am also glad you are able to sort out your chemical depression from your emotional depression. That is probably helpful to you in some way.
> When I respond to a medication, I don't feel so much an end of depression as I do an awakening and emergence from blackness into a new and wonderful world of color.
Me too, but I would much rather be cured and live in the wonderful world of color without need of medication.
> For some people, drugs do much more than simply act as bandaids to treat outward symptoms. They hit targets closer to the underlying neurological abnormality that yields a comprehensive improvement in brain function.
Who said "outward" symptoms? Not me. Again, my message to the previous poster was in reference finding and correcting the biological cause of our neurological abnormalities. The psychiatric drugs I am on are certainly not a "cure" for me, so therefore they are just a "band-aid" until I can hopefully determine and fix the underlying causes of my condition.
May we all find the answers we are praying for.
Posted by SLS on March 31, 2004, at 18:12:24
In reply to ????? » SLS, posted by simus on March 31, 2004, at 11:18:55
Hi Simus.
I may have misunderstood your post. I'll reread it more thoroughly when I have more mental energy. I apologize.
- Scott
Posted by simus on March 31, 2004, at 19:44:49
In reply to Re: ????? » simus, posted by SLS on March 31, 2004, at 18:12:24
> I may have misunderstood your post. I'll reread it more thoroughly when I have more mental energy. I apologize.
>
I also apologize. Our emotions get a little raw after a while of having to live with mental illness, a potentially debilitating condition, and also having to deal with everybody and their brother who has the "easy answer" for you. "Just think happy thoughts"... It is even tougher sometimes as a Christian, hee hee, because there are times I would just like to say, "Lord, couldn't you just turn around for a minute while I deal with this "saint".I wish you the best.
Simus
Posted by snapper on March 31, 2004, at 20:14:38
In reply to Re: ????? » SLS, posted by simus on March 31, 2004, at 19:44:49
Simus, I just read your post of apology to Scott and I that that was very kind and also to scott too. It does get a little sickening having to keep up with excuses for our behaviour or perhaps what appear to others as just complaining and malingering!! Mental Illness is a B**ch. When I am particular depressed and full of hopeless dispair, I just feel like telling the world to PI** Off. They don't have a clue! Christian or not- some genuinely seem to try and understand and that makes me feel good (I do profess to be a Christian but sometimes I feel like I have gotten such a raw deal, for having to endure this living nightmare)Many times I feel like telling God to take it and shove it!! -how could a God of Love possibly allow this type of suffering. Not to get off on a religious rant but just wanted to comment on the civility of the both of you and wish you both some "peace" of mind !!
take care
Snapper
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 1, 2004, at 6:25:17
In reply to Re: ????? » SLS, posted by simus on March 31, 2004, at 19:44:49
> > I may have misunderstood your post. I'll reread it more thoroughly when I have more mental energy. I apologize.
>
> I also apologize. Our emotions get a little raw after a while of having to live with mental illness, a potentially debilitating condition, and also having to deal with everybody and their brother who has the "easy answer" for you...Thanks for trying to work out any misunderstandings,
Bob
Posted by rainbowlight on April 1, 2004, at 13:41:32
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work? - francesco » rainbowlight, posted by francesco on March 31, 2004, at 10:04:52
Actually, I LOVE Lamictal. I have had virtually no side effects from it. That is a rarity for me, I usually get them all :) The only thing is that it is somewhat activating for me and I need a sleep med at night to get me to sleep. But I had sleep problems anyway so it works out fine. I think it is the best mood stabilizer of them all (and I have tried them all). It does keep my moods nice and stable. I add the Zoloft for help with my OCD and anxiety. It has a nice blunting effect for me and allows stuff to roll of my shoulders alot easier. Makes it much each easier to "cope" with lifes stressors. As far as the Zoloft and sex drive, it does affect it for me too. The lower the dose the better though. For me anyways.
Posted by francesco on April 1, 2004, at 14:29:59
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work? - francesco, posted by rainbowlight on April 1, 2004, at 13:41:32
> Actually, I LOVE Lamictal. I have had virtually no side effects from it. That is a rarity for me, I usually get them all :) The only thing is that it is somewhat activating for me and I need a sleep med at night to get me to sleep. But I had sleep problems anyway so it works out fine. I think it is the best mood stabilizer of them all (and I have tried them all). It does keep my moods nice and stable. I add the Zoloft for help with my OCD and anxiety. It has a nice blunting effect for me and allows stuff to roll of my shoulders alot easier. Makes it much each easier to "cope" with lifes stressors. As far as the Zoloft and sex drive, it does affect it for me too. The lower the dose the better though. For me anyways.
I will ask for Lamictal if I a mood stabilizer will be suggested. I don't know if I'm getting hpyo on Zoloft but I think so. Could you describe what kind of effect has Lamictal on you ? I'm not sure I'm bipolar but meds like SSRI tends to make me agitated and restless. But I don't experience mania or hypomania without meds, so, I'm in a situation in which I'm not sure if mood stabilizer are worth. Thanks for the inputs !
Posted by rainbowlight on April 2, 2004, at 3:03:47
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work? - francesco, posted by francesco on April 1, 2004, at 14:29:59
Many of the SSRI's make me agitated and restless too. I can't touch Prozac! Zoloft if one of the "activating" (instead of "sedating") SSRI's and can cause agitation/restlessness/mania. A mood stabilizer kind of puts a ceiling on how high your mood can go, and also how low it can go. Ideally, they put you right in the middle and leave your emotions intact. However my experience has been that alot of the mood stabilizers leave you feeling flat/blah/emotionless and like a zombie. I have found Lamictal to have the least of these side effects. In fact I don't get any of them at all with Lamictal. Have you been properly diagnosed? If you haven't you really should be, because the medication for Bipolar and Depression are very different.
Posted by trucker on April 2, 2004, at 22:41:39
In reply to Do antidepressants really work?, posted by lexman on March 29, 2004, at 20:23:39
THEY WORK... YOU HAVE TO GIVE SOME OF THEM TIME TO BUILD UP IN YOUR SYSTEM BUT THEY DO WORK. DEPRESSION IS A CHEMICAL IMBALANCE.
TRUCKER
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> Do antidepressants really work or are dr. and drug companies just taking our money?Thats what i hear from my brother that its all in your head and that drs just want your money.I am obcessed with taking ads.I have been on and off them for 8 years.What do i do?
>
> Lexman
Posted by katia on April 4, 2004, at 0:06:29
In reply to Re: Do antidepressants really work? - francesco, posted by rainbowlight on April 1, 2004, at 13:41:32
Hey Rainbow Light,
I just restarted Lam. and I LOVE it too. It's so euphoric feeling even at low doses. It's gives me my mojo back baby!You mention OCD? What are your symptoms? I think I may have that as well. I'm super sensitive to sensory stimulation and become bizarrely outraged when it feels as tho' I"m being invaded by sensory overload, i.e. noises being the worst of all. I love sound, when in the right context, i.e. music, birds, etc. but DETEST that boom boom music (should be outlawed) and dogs barking and blah blah blah. It drives me INSANE!!!! Is this OCD? I also have real problems w/ snoring or w/ people shaking their legs. It drives me crazy and has done since I was 11 - I'm 33 now. I feel crazy like a complete maniac in class when someone is moving their legs, I am almost driven to kill them.
anyway. what are your symptoms? Are you BP? I am BPII
thanks!
Katia
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