![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 30. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 10, 2004, at 17:33:47
In reply to OPIATES IN TREATMENT FOR DEPRESSION, posted by LAURA777 on January 31, 2003, at 8:55:53
> HI , i am so glad i found this site ..i do strongly believe that opiates should be considered for treatment of depression , like some of you i too have taken vicodin and percoset and have noticed massive improvement in my mood and my energy level , for instance , my mood or state is generally sad , uninterested and unmotivated,and lethargic... in fact with the questionare for depression scale , one of the questions is "did you loose interest in activities that you once found enjoyable " ? i have found nothing that has insipred my interest.. except to sleep to escape my greyness . how can i describe to you how awful this is !!! so very sad .. the main emotions that i feel are not good ones , and i have to push myself to do daily things .. i have been this way for so long that i used to think it was normal .. it started in my adolescents 12 years .i was put on prozac but this made me so flat .. then i was put on wellbutrin to augment the flatness , but here i sit with the same uninterested unmoitivated feelings .. yuk , depression runs in my family alot both sides as well as a sprinkling of bipolar, i know that i am not bipolar becasue i have never expierience mania !!! depressed is my main expierience and any good emotion is muted considerably , i know this because i pay attention to how i feel , and like some of you , when i took percoset or vicodin i actually felt much better and everything that one is supposed to do in daily life was not such a push ... what a relief this is !!!! what i want to know is why are the research companies so stuck on the serotonin and neroepinephrine , and are so frightened of the dopamine area .. hey has anyone out there ever tried amineptine ?? survector ??? it was pulled from the markets ...people who are against the use of opiates to treat depression probalby do not suffer from it the way i do .. my life sucks and the only reason i do not commit suicide is because of religious beliefs and i think it is selfish .. i would not want to hurt the ones i love soo very much .. anyway the only upside to my depression is that is has made me a deep thinker and i am compassionate.. but my life is dull for the lack of motivation and interest ,..
> i strongly believe that some of us are opiate deficient ..and it is a serious matter , i always asked myself what is everybody so excited about ?? life for me is very blah !!! and it is hard for me ... i mostly sleep because i am tired and believe it or not when i take vicodin or the like i do not feel tired , just the opposite .. i have energy and things are not a push to do ... but who is going to proscribe vicodin ?? i see a psychiatrist for the first time on feb 20 , i will let him know of all these things when i see him .. i have done quite a bit of research and have been to many of the links that are given on this forum .. there is so very much to explore and that fact that everyones brain chemistry is different makes matters much more complicated and individual ,..
> i tell you i do not want to go thru ect or use the dirty tricyclics ... i also don't want to end up like my mother who does nothing , but sleep and watch tv and is also anxious and worried all the time not to mention negitivity , the only drug she takes is xanex for angxiety..i am 38 years old and have wasted many years because of ignorance of what i have depression , i do not know wheather i am dysthymic or have retarded depression .. all i know is that i don;t want to go anywhere or do anything but i don;t want to sit here either .. This is so very hard .. i am not asking for much , i know i can;t be happy 24 7 but how about sometimes ??? how come i can't , i feel unfufilled , I would like to add that i do see a therapist and have made great strides in my self image and perceptions of things , but still i am stuck with this dryness in the area of the good feelings .. does any one understand this ?? or can anyone articulate this better ?? please please give me feedback because i feel so alone and i need validation .. i would just love to have interest , motivation .. is this is as good as it gets i am so doomed !!!!! my Father deals with his depression with alcohol , i hate alcohol it only worsens mine ....
> my research into dopaminergic drugs is slow but i do not think they target all the areas of the brain that opiates do , opiates target 4 areas of the brain and are significantly different from the stimulate drugs such as ritilan and cocaine in that they target the prefrontal cortex and nucleus accumbens , where as opiates target venteral tegmental area , nucleus accumbens , hippocampus and hypothalmus , .. i am just a lay person and have to research much more , and the only reason why i am so intense in this is because i am so so so tired of feeling this shitty ... i do not cry often even though i realte to sadness a great deal .. oh please can anyone give me some feedback it will be well appreciated , thanks , laura
Posted by JohnFromCalifornia on January 10, 2004, at 19:52:39
In reply to OPIATES IN TREATMENT FOR DEPRESSION « LAURA777, posted by Dr. Bob on January 10, 2004, at 17:33:47
Very intriguing of Dr. Bob to re-post this opiate-related message when very much the same issues were going through my mind.
I've tried Buspar, Paxil, Prozac, Wellbutrin and now Lexapro for my low-grade depression and I can honestly say none of them has done a damn thing for me except make me feel crappy.
On the other hand, the Norco (hydrochodone/acetaminophen, 10/375) I took last month for my back, an opiate somewhat stronger than Vicodin, did more to help my depression and anxiety, and to make me feel better about life in general, than any anti-depressant I've taken to date.
But then, for me, so does a double Absolut martini. (Three olives and ice in an Old Fashioned glass, please. Hold the vermouth.) And for the same reason: Opiates and alcohol, in the early stages of intoxication, provide a euphoric sense of relief and well-being that totally displaces depression and anxiety.
Depression is not so much cured by these drugs as it is masked. Sometimes, for some people, this is enough -- anything is enough if it eases the pain even temporarily.
But with withdrawal comes the realization that alcohol and opiates are themselves depressants. So after the few hours of being pleasantly stoned, you must either indulge once more in your poison of choice, or go through the double misery of withdrawal from the drug and the return of your initial depression.
And there is another issue: I don't want to go through life stoned.
So for me, opiates and alcohol will always be a false solution with a too-high price tag.
My Lexapro has run out. I've been taking Paxil, then Lexapro, since Nov. 20. Every day of that period I've felt like I've had the flu. Admittedly I haven't been depressed over that time, but I have been anxious. I haven't been miserable but I haven't felt good either -- I've been unable to experience the simple joys of life. I'm somewhat zombified: you know, like Tom Ridge during a press conference.
So before I refill my Lexapro script, I'm going to take a couple of weeks to go back to my pre-SSRI behaviorist regimen: healthy food, no stimulants except tea, and plenty of hard exercise. (I lost the will and energy to exercise when I started SSRIs in Novebmer.)
I'll keep monitoring this board, which is excellent, and drop a line from time to time if I feel I have anything to contribue.
- John from California
Posted by sailor on January 11, 2004, at 14:03:07
In reply to Re: OPIATES IN TREATMENT FOR DEPRESSION, posted by JohnFromCalifornia on January 10, 2004, at 19:52:39
Jumping in here to hopefully keep this thread going. I have a 30 year history of major depression, treated with some success in earlier years (longest stretches were amitriptyline and later Desyrel). The general trend has been toward worsening of my condition, with less success with psychotropics. Much of my adult life I was "high functioning" (teaching, administration) but it was always a great effort) and my ability to enjoy things, or be normally relaxed or satisfied was tenuous and fleeting. I can see now that lots of pot smoking (none for the past ten years), compulsive socializing, and regular alcohol use, occasional abuse, have been attempts to compensate for my illness. I am not addictive--never suffered from cravings or withdrawal--and I don't even care about feeling "high". I just want and have always wanted to feel more like what I saw around me in most other people as more of a normal mood state. In the last 8 years or so I have been through most of the available first line meds. Most docs, per usual have pushed SSRI's--enough to the point where I am convinced serotonin is not my problem. Have also tried Wellbutrin 3 times with an interesting response: fairly rapid and dramatic response within a week, followed by rapid poopout within a few days, then (with continued and increased doseage) a crash to worse case of depression than when I started. A more recent trial of Strattera with Lamictal proved energizing with some improvement in focus and concentration but no mood elevation. Still stuck with anhedonia and a lack of motivation that's sometimes scary. I've never been hospitalized, nor suicidal, but if someone convinced me I'd be stuck in a depressed state and never get better, well, that's not a way I would want to live. I'm currently on a Parnate trial, at my insistence, since the psych. nurse I'm seeing thinks it's too dangerous with the hypertensive crisis risk attached. She obviously doesn't really understand depression. Hell, I can watch my diet as easily as riding a bicycle...what's the big deal for a chance at finding a drug that could make a big difference? Anyway I'm only at 40mg/day and I know that many responders have needed 100mg or more. After lots of research, and invaluable input from many psychobabblers, I'm currently hypothesizing a dopamine problem as the basis of my depression. As many of you know, dopamine has been dutifully neglected by drug companies and practitioners, largely because of the "abuse potential" of drugs that might address this problem. After all, cocaine, amphetamines, even cigarrettes, all produce dopamine surges in their abusive users. Amineptine (Survector) was a specific dopamine enhancer that was taken off the market for alleged abuse potential even though it was reportedly having dramatic success with lots of depressed users.
Unfortunately for we sufferers, strugglers and seekers, there's lots of politics to the development and marketing of psychotropics. So we must inform ourselves and sometimes assume responsibility for our own "treatment plans". This often means having to try to diplomatically influence the "experts" whom we have to hire for help and who hold the prescription pads. There are certainly some good ones out there...but not all of us can find them or afford them.
So thank you for all you posters who take the time, even in the midst of obvious distress, to ask your questions, to share your experiences and to encourage others.
I am by nature hopeful, even in the midst of my worst pillow-over -the-head stay in bed all day crash. It took me many years to understand and believe that many mental illnesses do have a chemical basis and ultimately a chemical resolution. Our ultimate strategy for now is patience and persistence. Psychobabble is unique in its ability to help us help ourselves. Regards, Sailor
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on January 12, 2004, at 9:27:16
In reply to OPIATES IN TREATMENT FOR DEPRESSION « LAURA777, posted by Dr. Bob on January 10, 2004, at 17:33:47
Hi Laura,
I'm so sorry things are so bad for you. Though I now use amphetamines, Prozac, and Klonopin to handle my depression and anxiety, I have been prescribed opioids psychiatrically. They work beautifully, and there are methods of preventing tolerance which are quite handy, but I unfortunately had to quit using them because, oddly enough, they made my fibromyalgia pain worse!
If you'd like, you can e-mail me at amesansvie@yahoo.com and I'll provide you with a wealth of information you can print and bring with you to your appointment in February. You're much more likely to convince the doctor that opioids are for you if you have a mountain of evidence to present -- that's how I was first prescribed a narcotic for depression.
Hope to hear from you!
Michael
Posted by Spotcheck on January 15, 2004, at 17:42:16
In reply to Re: OPIATES IN TREATMENT FOR DEPRESSION, posted by sailor on January 11, 2004, at 14:03:07
Two quick notes here in case they are of some help:
1. Laura 777 -- "and are so frightened of the dopamine area"
2. Sailor ---"As many of you know, dopamine has been dutifully neglected by drug companies and practitioners, largely because of the "abuse potential" of drugs that might address ....
Sailor is presently on a Parnate trial, but I rather doubt it will effect dopamine. If you want dopamine levels to be increased in your brain, I would recommend Phenelzine Sulfate. It effects these neurotransmitters and hormones:
1. 5HT - serotonin
2. NE -- norephinephrine
3. DA -- dopamine
4. GABA Gamma Aminobutyric AcidNote: This drug has been completely reformulated by Pfizer as has Parnate as of the year 2003, because they had serious productions problems making a much older drug. They now use fewer excipients which cost them considerably less money.
I hope this is of some use to any or all of you. Sailor, if you would be so kind as to tell me how your Parnate trial goes, I would be most appreciative.
Spotcheck
Posted by mtdew on January 17, 2004, at 2:00:40
In reply to Re: OPIATES IN TREATMENT FOR DEPRESSION » LAURA777, posted by Ame Sans Vie on January 12, 2004, at 9:27:16
I've experienced a nice mood lift from opiates, but it seems to go away after only a few days of use, leaving only a blank stoned feeling. But perhaps I haven't tried it from a dark enough depression from which that would be an improvement.
By the way, Provigil is said to have a mild effect on dopamine, though the manufacturer downplays this (Shhhhhh). It ought to be fairly easy to get, too.
Posted by laura777 on January 21, 2004, at 8:22:42
In reply to Re: OPIATES IN TREATMENT FOR DEPRESSION, posted by JohnFromCalifornia on January 10, 2004, at 19:52:39
John , you post sounds like the typical response held by many in the field that researches opiates..
There are inferior opiates out there for treatment of depression in that they cause all of the things you mention ..
As far as going about feeling stoned and euphoric when taking a opiate , this is not the case with some of us ..
When I use to self medicate with opiates I did not run around feeling stoned or euphoric .
I finally felt alive and was able to function ..The fact that our meso limbic system is densely packed with opiate receptors and that this area is known to impact our ability to enjoy life says alot about what opiates can do .. Some of us are deficient in this area and life is just plain grey and we don't use these drugs to get high or mask depression ..
Depression can be because of mental issues stemming from the enviroment and if it has not gone on long enough talk therapy can fix this and brain chem returns to normal ..
But with some of us due to genetic reasons and long term enviroment dysfunction our brain chemistry is dificient and the term that I like best is call "Reward Deficiency Syndrome" This is a real state that some people find themselves in and it is living hell ..
While I agree with you that what we have available in the way of opiates are too intrusive in many areas such as tolerence ect .. I do believe that we need to design ones that tweak the opiate system which in turn tweaks the dopamine system as well so that people can feel more alive , get satisfaction and be able to do life ..
God would not have placed endorphin system in our brain chem if it were not important for our life and He would have not place abundant receptors in the emotional area of our brain if it was not crucial to our enjoyment of life ,,
The endorphin opioid system is not just there for allieviating physical pain , it is also there for enjoyment of our emotional life as well ..
Neuroscience has to investigate endorphin system much more , it is complicated in that it is a very long amino acid chain that our bodies create. It is also 60 times more powerful than any drug we derive from the poppy or synthetic form or opiates we create ..
Also our own natural endorphin system has a fast acting component as well as a more long acting component ..
There is much more to this , but my point is most of us do not use these drugs to get stoned or run from depression ..
Posted by ramsea on January 22, 2004, at 8:56:10
In reply to Re: OPIATES IN TREATMENT FOR DEPRESSION, posted by laura777 on January 21, 2004, at 8:22:42
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 25, 2004, at 23:48:58
In reply to OPIATES IN TREATMENT FOR DEPRESSION « LAURA777, posted by Dr. Bob on January 10, 2004, at 17:33:47
Re: OPIATES IN TREATMENT FOR DEPRESSION » Verity
Posted by laura777 on January 24, 2004, at 13:37:09
In reply to Re: OPIATES IN TREATMENT FOR DEPRESSION » LAURA777, posted by Verity on January 9, 2004, at 12:16:18
hey Verity , I totally understand where you are coming from , the area of the opioid system needs to be explored more and this is difficult because it is complicated in that many aminos in chain form are invovled and that they have short acting properties and longer duration properties .. Also our natural opioid system is 60 times more powerful than anything we create with poppies or synthetics .. What further complicates things is that there are many other neuros , hormones , polypetides , enzymes , receptors and the fact of where the foul up is going wrong , could be several places ..
But one think I am convinced of is ... Is that the endorphin system will bring about enourmous advances in treatment of many disorders from schizaphrenia ,ADHD , depression , ect due to the cascade effect of all the neros have on eachother , love to hear any thoughts that you may have still ..By the way , I was given ADderall Xr because I am ADHD and have been since I was small , it just changed when I got older , especially affecting motivation interest issues ..
I believe Adderall to be the more safer drug to take than that of opiates due to the fact that they are less intrusive in many areas of the whole body system , where as opiates are more so .. laura----
Wellbutrin sr and lexapro combo
Posted by lexman on January 25, 2004, at 22:27:10
In reply to Re: OPIATES IN TREATMENT FOR DEPRESSION » Verity, posted by laura777 on January 24, 2004, at 13:37:09
Is anyone on lexapro and wellbutrin sr? I took lexapro 10mg and i did well for anxiety, but not for depression.I was also tried alot.So my doctor prescribed wellbutrin.I have been on it for a month and i am having my sexual side effects. I dont even think about sex anymore or masturbate.Which is hard to believe.lol Anyways, i was wondering does the 2 meds increase the side effects of one another.I also noticed that after a night of partying. I felt horrible for 2 days.I guess you cant drink on this combo either.Which sucks because i like to drink with my friends once in awhile.
lexman
Posted by laura777 on January 26, 2004, at 10:27:26
In reply to Re: OPIATES IN TREATMENT FOR DEPRESSION, posted by mtdew on January 17, 2004, at 2:00:40
> I've experienced a nice mood lift from opiates, but it seems to go away after only a few days of use, leaving only a blank stoned feeling. But perhaps I haven't tried it from a dark enough depression from which that would be an improvement.
>
> By the way, Provigil is said to have a mild effect on dopamine, though the manufacturer downplays this (Shhhhhh). It ought to be fairly easy to get, too.
Provigil effects the noradrenaline , at higher doses it begins to have effect on dopamine ,,
But just taking one dose of provigil had me climbing the walls .... I got useless nervous energy but with no motivation or interest ..
Posted by laura777 on January 26, 2004, at 10:36:34
In reply to Redirected: OPIATES IN TREATMENT FOR DEPRESSION, posted by Dr. Bob on January 25, 2004, at 23:48:58
From what I understand lexapro is for anxiety , as for welbutrin giving you a low sex drive , this appears to be strange because it is supposed to do just the oppisite .. people who take ssri's such as lexapro prozac have trouble with low sex drive reaching orgasms ect..
Wellbutrin is proscribed to counter balance this ..
Talk to your p-doc let him know ..> > Is anyone on lexapro and wellbutrin sr? I took lexapro 10mg and i did well for anxiety, but not for depression.I was also tried alot.So my doctor prescribed wellbutrin.I have been on it for a month and i am having my sexual side effects. I dont even think about sex anymore or masturbate.Which is hard to believe.lol Anyways, i was wondering does the 2 meds increase the side effects of one another.I also noticed that after a night of partying. I felt horrible for 2 days.I guess you cant drink on this combo either.Which sucks because i like to drink with my friends once in awhile.
> lexman
Posted by flyingdreams on January 27, 2004, at 17:31:59
In reply to Re: OPIATES IN TREATMENT FOR DEPRESSION, posted by JohnFromCalifornia on January 10, 2004, at 19:52:39
Very interesting what you have to say. I've have thought the same from time to time. Alcohol at least gets out of your system faster than anti-depressants and you don't have to take alcohol everyday like you do anti-depressants. Use when you need it most. But then, what if you become addicted to alcohol, it's a risk. But you know you will be addicted to anti-depressants and you know reading this board and my personal experience, you get withdrawals when getting off anti-depressants. I'm trying the vitamins approach now. The side effects of the anti-depressants have outweighted any possible benefits they give me. I say if you can deal with life without being on a anti-depressant go for it! More power to ya!
Posted by SandyWeb on January 27, 2004, at 20:55:16
In reply to Re: OPIATES IN TREATMENT FOR DEPRESSION, posted by flyingdreams on January 27, 2004, at 17:31:59
Is Codeine an opiate? I have some Tylenol with Codeine, and I was thinking of trying it. Like you all, I have not had any success with the usual rounds of psychotropics. I didn't get a chance to see if Wellbutrin would work because it shot my heart rate up!
Do you think 3 pills would be wise? I'm not sure how much acetaminaphin a person can take in one dose. What about sublingual?
What I would give to relieve this unfocused anxiety. *sigh*
Sandy
Posted by laura777 on January 28, 2004, at 15:01:15
In reply to Re: OPIATES IN TREATMENT FOR DEPRESSION, posted by SandyWeb on January 27, 2004, at 20:55:16
Hey Sandy , Wellbutrin made your heart rate shoot up because of noradrenaline properties of the drug .. As for the tylenol with codiene ? what are the milligrams ?
Be careful with taking anything that you have not fully found out about .. you have a computer look up exactly what it is you have ..
As far as acetaminaphin is concerned ,, it depends on the condition of your liver and any other drugs you may be taking ....
A healthy liver that is not impeded by any other drugs can process 1 gram and higher of acetaminaphin ..
The pills that you mentioned have milligrams and it takes 1000 milligarams to equal 1 gram ..
What I strongly suggest though is investigate yourself and how you feel and any drug that you use and how it makes you feel ..
Everyone's chemistry is different and can be affected by enviroment and genetics ..
Are you seeing a P-Doc ?
Posted by Spotcheck on January 28, 2004, at 18:21:42
In reply to Re: OPIATES IN TREATMENT FOR DEPRESSION, posted by SandyWeb on January 27, 2004, at 20:55:16
Sandy, codeine is indeed an opiate -- a natural opiate as opposed to a synthetic opiate like heroin.
WRT to the rest of your questions, laura777 had addressed them nicely.
I would strongly recommend that you take her advice.
Posted by SandyWeb on January 28, 2004, at 18:58:34
In reply to Re: OPIATES IN TREATMENT FOR DEPRESSION, posted by laura777 on January 28, 2004, at 15:01:15
Thanks so much for your responses. Isn't it great that we have such a caring community to come to?
I actually took 3 of the pills, as I had read that one shouldn't take anymore than 1g of acet. within a 24-hour period. So it was 900mg in the 3 pills, plus only 24mg of codeine.
Honestly, I have to say that I didn't even feel it. It just seemed like sugar pills. So I won't be doing that again because I don't want to put my liver into shock (lol!)....but why pose the risk when it's not necessary, you know?
I'm surprised really that it did not have an impact on me. Then again, the pdoc that I saw for the one and ONLY time just couldn't believe me when a certain sleeping med didn't even touch me. It makes you feel like you're a secret junkie, trying to get drugs for your fix, when you keep asking for different meds or raising the doses. Oh well....one day we will find the magic combination. It takes most of us quite a few roller coaster rides before we FINALLY find something that works, even at least partially.
Oh, I meant to mention about the Wellbutrin. I don't think it was the NE that shot my heart rate up because high doses of Remeron doesn't cause that to happen. But Wellbutrin and Nozinan both have dopamine function in common, so I thought it was probably something to do with that neurotransmitter. Who knows? The lovely pdoc I went to told me that it couldn't possibly have happened. It makes you wonder why some people go into medicine. *smile*
Have a wonderful day!
Sandy
Posted by laura777 on January 28, 2004, at 22:57:46
In reply to Re: OPIATES IN TREATMENT FOR DEPRESSION, posted by SandyWeb on January 28, 2004, at 18:58:34
Well Sandy , Opiates for me such as 2 x 5mg codiene or 2 x 5 mg vicodin gave me energy that was even and lifted a greyness that I had since I entered adolescents ..
Usually opiates tend to make people drowsy or fuzzy , but for me I get just the oppisite .
I have since been properly diagnosed with ADHD since starting this thread 1 year ago ..
I now take Adderall XR and I could write pages on how it has changed my life ..
Opiates hold a key to this very complex lock of neuro chemistry , but the ones available today in my opinion are invasive in areas where they shouldn't be and the adverse effects such as tolerance , and affecting areas of the body such as digestive tract and a host of other issues..It's too bad that we can not come up with an opiate that would tweak the system without all the other garbage ..
Reward Deficiency syndrome is a good phrase of what I suffered from besides all the well known things associated with ADHD .. Inability to organise , follow thru on tasks , In fact I didn't even have a clue on how bad this was for me until I began to take the meds and now I see the difference , because initially I sought help for lack of motivation and interest .. This was my biggest complaint ..
Reguarding the other areas such as following thru , organisation ect ect ... I just thought that was just who I was ... meaning that I am the type of person who never has there stuff together ..But this was not the case , because like I said after being put on the right meds my whole world has changed ... I could write a book ..
And for me wellbutrin didn't have a big effect on my dopamine issues because it just made me racey with useless nervous energy and no motivation or interest to put that energy to good use ..
Provigil was the same story .. effexor , too ..
I believe these are all noradrenaline enhancers ..
Everyones Brain chem is so different , that is just one of the many reasons this is so complex ..For me it is fascinating and I hope some day to go back to school and learn all I can about it ..
Posted by chris748 on January 28, 2004, at 23:08:11
In reply to OPIATES IN TREATMENT FOR DEPRESSION « LAURA777, posted by Dr. Bob on January 10, 2004, at 17:33:47
I am a 20 year old, who has found opiates to treat my depression better than anything. I have been diagnosed as having 2 herniated discs in my lumbar spine, yet doctors won't prescribe me what I need for their fear of my addiction. I will admit, hydrocodone withdrawls are about the worst feeling in the world, but vicoproufen and Lortab have both contributed to my feeling of the love of life. I build stairs in very exquisite homes in the southeast and have not found opiates to make me less alert when working around saws, but to help me better concentrate and not get bored with what I am doing. I get paid by what I get done, no salary or by the hour. Ever since I have been on the drug, my productivity has almost doubled and I have found myself to be happy with my job. A lot of that has to do with the back pain, because chronic back pain does lead to depression and here recently has lead to severe anxiety. I am only 20 years old, but I have learned an entire, very complex trade while taking this drug. I used to have no interest in what I did and all I knew was that my back hurt all the time. I wish there were more open-minded doctors such as Dr. Bob to do research on these issue. I have been through the whole anti-inflammatory thing, which helped with the back pain, but I was still unhappy. I can take my hydro in the morning and get a great amount accomplished, where when I was on the anti-inflammatories, I still had the lull in my everyday life. It is very depressing to suffer from severe back pain as well as anxiety at my age. Much of the anxiety comes from being an entrepenuer at my age and having to deal with people who doubt me pretty much everyday, when my work is clearly comparable with my fathers work, and he has been doing this for 30 years. The HC just seems to add the spark back.. They try to put me on Effexor and all that other BS, but the way I look at that is that its just something else to be addicted to. I don't understand what the problem is with being addicted to something that helps you as much as HC has helped me. They wouldn't seem to be concerned with an Effexor addiction... I just don't understand. I wish Dr. Bob luck in his research with this topic, because it could prove to be very useful in the future...
Posted by laura777 on January 29, 2004, at 10:41:14
In reply to Re: OPIATES IN TREATMENT FOR DEPRESSION, posted by chris748 on January 28, 2004, at 23:08:11
Hey Chris , Is Dr. Bob doing research on opiates for depression , lack of motivation and interest ?
Chris.... I can relate to all that you have written in your post .. Everything except for the back pain .. I noticed that percoset changed my world from grey lifelessness to a world of color .. They were given to me for tooth pain ..
This was on a small dose 2 x 5 mgs ..
The initial euphoria only lasted a short duration and then for the rest of the day I was very productive and could move from task to task without struggling , pushing thru things ..
I would get bored so easily , things were so grey , but if I ingested a bit of opiate in small doses things were much much different ..I just wish we could come up with a drug to replace our natural opioid system without all the tolerance issues ect ect ..
As I said in my last post I take Adderall XR ..
At first I was very skeptical because it was an amphetamine and I do not tolerate any noradrenaline drugs well , nor did I like any drug that was speed ..
But with Adderall Xr I think it is in the molecular structure of the drug that makes it work so well ..
Because when you take an opiate it allows for dopamine to flood the meso limbic system , nucleus accumbens and they think that is because opiates bind to their receptors but also inhibit GABA from restricting dopamine to enter in this area as well ..
Hey I feel for you truly .. I know what it is like to be where you are ..
Hey if Dr. Bob is doing research , please forgive my ignorance and send me a link somebody !Thanks , Laura
Posted by Cajunbelle on January 29, 2004, at 11:29:41
In reply to OPIATES IN TREATMENT FOR DEPRESSION « LAURA777, posted by Dr. Bob on January 10, 2004, at 17:33:47
I am so glad that I noticed this post.I just had this discussion with my therapist last week.I was given Lortabs for tooth pain, and noticed how much better they work over any antidepressant.They make me feel calm,Give me energy and motivation, makes me actually feel normal.The therapist said that there is a big debate and study going on concerning the benefits of opiates in treating depression.She asked me If I thought I would be prone to an addiction problem with the lortabs...Was she actually going to give me a prescription and her blessing to take them? It did cross my mind.
Kristen
Posted by katrina1 on January 29, 2004, at 11:41:55
In reply to Re: OPIATES IN TREATMENT FOR DEPRESSION » chris748, posted by laura777 on January 29, 2004, at 10:41:14
I've been on Buprenorphine (subutex) for almost 1 yr. with no abuse at all and I am a recovering alcoholic. I never crave it or take "extra" however I will have physical withdraw if I go too long without my dose. I probably don't take enough...I take 1 mg. 2 times per day. It is the only thing that took the teeth out of my depression, but it hasn't put it in remission. My pdoc calls me bi-polar, but my mania is agitation and mild hypomania, but I subsist in depression. Opiates are a definite in my arsenal.
Posted by justjustine on January 29, 2004, at 21:27:20
In reply to Re: OPIATES/Buprenorphine Use, posted by katrina1 on January 29, 2004, at 11:41:55
I've been off Effexor for 3+ weeks now with horrible withdrawals, and Vicodin is the ONLY drug I've found that helps. It's just that now my doctor thinks I'm a junky and wants me on another SSRI. I'm seeing an acupuncuturist and getting another PCP and psych in the meantime.
I only take the Vicodin as needed, but I just did an experiment and after about 18 hours it's brain shivers, body aches, head ache, nausea, etc. etc. all over again.
I wish the "medical community" would learn not to demonize certain substances while holding up others unquestionably.
Posted by Chairman_MAO on January 30, 2004, at 13:41:56
In reply to OPIATES and Effexor withdrawal, posted by justjustine on January 29, 2004, at 21:27:20
Amphetamine and marijuana also helped me. Addiction psychologist Stanton Peele asserts in _Love and Addiction_ (1975) that a drug withdrawl syndrome is actually a physical expression of a severe emotional longing for the drug. This is the only coherent explanation I've ever heard of why so many drugs could alleviate withdrawl symptoms of, well, so many other drugs.
Posted by justjustine on January 30, 2004, at 18:54:36
In reply to Re: OPIATES and Effexor withdrawal » justjustine, posted by Chairman_MAO on January 30, 2004, at 13:41:56
i'm not sure i understand - amphetamine and marijuana helped you withdraw from effexor? or from heroin? thanks.
> Amphetamine and marijuana also helped me. Addiction psychologist Stanton Peele asserts in _Love and Addiction_ (1975) that a drug withdrawl syndrome is actually a physical expression of a severe emotional longing for the drug. This is the only coherent explanation I've ever heard of why so many drugs could alleviate withdrawl symptoms of, well, so many other drugs.
Posted by justjustine on January 30, 2004, at 19:01:29
In reply to OPIATES and Effexor withdrawal, posted by justjustine on January 29, 2004, at 21:27:20
i saw my psych today - he is still not convinced that my withdrawal symptoms are caused by the effexor, but we are going to continue to work together on this. i've agreed to slowly come off the vicodin over the next few weeks with his supervision, which is what i wanted all along anyway! and the only other scrip i'll be on is ambien for sleep so he can eliminate other possible causes like xanax withdrawal, for instance.
i left him a pile of info to read, and yes i'm still getting a new PCP. but at least i've got a doctor who wants to work with me. god bless his pointed little head.
> I've been off Effexor for 3+ weeks now with horrible withdrawals, and Vicodin is the ONLY drug I've found that helps. It's just that now my doctor thinks I'm a junky and wants me on another SSRI. I'm seeing an acupuncuturist and getting another PCP and psych in the meantime.
>
> I only take the Vicodin as needed, but I just did an experiment and after about 18 hours it's brain shivers, body aches, head ache, nausea, etc. etc. all over again.
>
> I wish the "medical community" would learn not to demonize certain substances while holding up others unquestionably.
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.