![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 60 to 84 of 134. Go back in thread:
Posted by AMD on January 8, 2004, at 18:20:13
In reply to Lithium » fluffy, posted by katia on January 8, 2004, at 15:39:50
Katia,
I feel for you; I am going through the same thing. For three months of on-again, off-again lithium therapy, I've felt at various points racy headed, gloomy, stuporous, slow, sleepy, and just plain frustrated. (I also take 40 mg Celexa and just added Lamictal.)
Is this the lithium, lingering depression, or a bad hangover from a high BAL three months ago?
Is this feeling reversible, or will it persist until my mind just 'gets used to it'?Well, I'll assume it's not alcohol related, in which case the only real cause seems to be the lithium. Been on between 300mg - 900mg daily, and have various stages of 'brain fog'. I like that phrase: it really describes how I feel at times.
I DO feel depressed, but in some ways I think the lithium is actually making me that way.
So much hunch is it's the lithium itself causing the brain fog. It's not just that, either. I've been unmotivated, slow, and just not myself. No passion for work, like usual, for example. Anhedonia but not to an extreme.
The most annoying aspect has been this odd 'tingling' in the back of my head when I attempt to concentrate. I suddenly feel tired and just want to whack myself on the side of the head to 'snap out of it'. Nothing gels quickly, and when I'm really on the lithium I have trouble grasping abstract concepts, like calculus.
It's endlessly frustrating... and it's worrying just waiting to snap out of it. I keep thinking I've f****'d up my brain permanently now. But this is day one of NO lithium, after two consistent weeks on about 600 mg/day, so we'll see if I feel any better come the weekend.
Curious to see how you feel, too.
Adam
> Hi Katy,
> It's so good to hear from you again! I too think about you and Barb a lot. I wonder where she is? Even though it's good to take a break, I missed you guys.
> I cannot get through this brain fog. I was trying to write yesterday. uh what a joke. Instead of flowing beautifully like it does, it's like i was coughing up chunks of words to eventually form a sentence and then I'd have to look at it again and again and then forget what I was doing. Wowie! lithium is by far the strongest beast I've yet to ingest. Two days after I went to 900mg, I got the rash and had to stop lam. I think that the two (as Barb's post much earlier stated when you were going on Li) Lam and Li act well together, but w/o Lam. the brain fog set in pretty hard. I decreased my dose to 225mg last night. We'll wait and see in five days if my fog lifts. It's definitely quelled my agitation/irritability. But I've lost too much in the process - i don't feel. On my mood chart, all I can document is meds and sleep hours. I haven't a clue what to put for mood. I guess I'm one of those who cannot tolerate it. Maybe at a lower dose and then i could add Wellbutrin or another MS. My pdoc is consevative-ish and wants me to stay at 450 'til Friday. Sorry I couldn't wait. I need my brain, inspiration, motivation....I think I've experienced touches of hypomania (euphoric kind)too - harder to sleep, buying a house thing, giddy/silliness. Really lithium has put me into another dimension.
> I see my pdoc on the 21st. However, we may see each other before then b/c I want to go on Antabuse. But at this point, I don't care. I have no strong opinions one way or another - I feel too far beneath my skin.
>
> > And i think it's wise to not make any, um, HUGE decisions (like buying a house) at this time in your life. Maybe give it another year or so when you are more stable, and your thesis is done, etc. One thing at a time. (what are you studying? I forget.)
>
> **I'm studying transpersonal psychology and life coaching. (yeah I know, surprise surprise) at least my topic is relevant (bipolar spectrum disorders).
>
> Thanks for the advice re: Topamax. last thing I need is more deja vu feeling and stupidity. Hits the temporal lobe? Um interesting....I hadn't considered this when thinking about meds.
>
> > I started my depakote at 250mg last night. I feel pretty drugged this morning. Ughh. I know it will fade, though. Not sure what my titration schedule is. My doctor is going low and slow. I'm still taking 25mg of Lamictal. If the rash shows again, then it goes bye bye.
>
> *That was one thing I felt on Depakote was sedation and an early afternoon fatigue/crash (even with waking at 11/12ish). I've heard that it goes away and you can play with the timing of doses etc. Will you up the Lamictal again if no rash? You could always add Wellbutrin as well or instead to give you energy and ward off depression. You still have options little Katy! Don't despair - and likewise for me.
> That ultradian cycling is for the birds....I've experienced that too - it was more in the summer months. Since winter, i've had more of the depression. How do you feel today?
> take good care-
> Hugs-
> Katia
Posted by Karen_kay on January 8, 2004, at 19:55:54
In reply to Re: What? Non-flexible talons??? Never!, posted by fluffy on January 8, 2004, at 10:42:59
Hey all!
I totally agree! For some reason I'm very lucky in that I tolerate medications very well with little side effects. Topamax did cause cognitive slowing, to the point that I confused the letter "e" with the letter "I"...This whole mess is so confusing, isn't it?? But, I had to wait it out. And Topamax isn't the medication for everyone. It just happens to be the one that works for me.It's a really stressful time for you right now katia, with your thesis and meds and life in general. But I agree with Katy that you shouldn't make any big decisions like purchasing a house (congrats though!! What a big step!!) in the midst of all of this. I'd put it off for a bit longer. The market fluctuates and your chance will come again when you don't have as much going on in your life. Who knows, maybe next year at this time the same house will be up on the market for 10% less? That would be great!!
And your posts do seem to be much more flowing and suggest that "everything is coming back." Give it a bit more time. It will come together. And you'll find the right combination. It just takes some time.
Sending you all warm thoughts!!!
Karen
Posted by katia on January 8, 2004, at 22:36:56
In reply to Re: Lithium, posted by fluffy on January 8, 2004, at 17:27:08
Hi Katy,
Yes, I'm slightly better, but i'm still drugged feeling/stuporish. (try doing bikram yoga like this it's a riot - before you know it the entire class has passed you by). I'm really really tired.
As far as the Depakote titration, I think you can go to the max right away.
> Today I feel_________. I think it's funny about your mood chart--not knowing where your mood fits. (it's like there should be another blank that says "drugged out of my mind". That's what I'd fill in today i think.**Yes, I'm drawing big ? marks thru my lithium stupor days. The plus side is my agitation/irritability has subsided considerably. But I don't have access to me. I didn't realize my grammar was off! I wonder what/how others think/see me?
> i don't know what's up with my limbs. For whatever reasons, when I try a new mood stabilizer, I've had these really physical side effects...heavyness in my limbs, looseness of my grip, stiffness in my hands...this is scary!!
> Today, after the first depakote dose, my hands feel like they've fallen asleep (or just after--they feel heavy and uncoordinated). It really scares me. I don't want to tell my doctor until it is really a problem. I really don't want to discontinue another drug so soon. So we'll see if this clears up in a week or so. How long does the full dose of Depakote take to build up in your system? Isn't it faster than most mood stabilizers?**I kinda have that now - big stiff bear claw :-)Clumsy like and slow.
> Other than the heavy hands--I'm depressed as sh*t. I had to take a crying break today instead of a lunch break. All I could think about is why my doctors would even want to keep me alive--and how cruel it is to even do that to someone who is suffering. I've been pretty f*uckin' depressed this week. I just want to be better, but I'm tired of suffering. I have intermittently thought of going to the hospital. But really, I don't know what difference it would make for me right now. I just know my thoughts are really negative right now, and I'm not functioning so well. I feel like "Hal" in 2001 Space Odyssey when the astronauts start to disconnect his wires..."I can feel it".**Oh dear katy, I hear you. You will get better - so will I! Our experiences are so similar it's uncanny.
>
> I'm sure in two days I'll be chipper and bouncing around the house, cleaning and sewing, busy as a bee. This is so confusing.
>
Keep in touch.
Love,
Katia
Posted by katia on January 8, 2004, at 22:56:31
In reply to Re: Lithium » katia, posted by AMD on January 8, 2004, at 18:20:13
Hi Adam!
Thanks for the post! You sound just like me. I'll respond below with *** in front.
> I feel for you; I am going through the same thing. For three months of on-again, off-again lithium therapy, I've felt at various points racy headed, gloomy, stuporous, slow, sleepy, and just plain frustrated. (I also take 40 mg Celexa and just added Lamictal.)
** Hi, I'm sitting here reading your post and spacing out and then re-reading it...ok. What is your diagnosis? I'm somewhere around bipolar II/Mixed/rapid cycler yet with big swings one way or the other in a year...and rapid cycling within those either ups or downs. So as you read from my post, I just stopped Lamictal. I was on 200mg for over a month and on Lam. total for about four months. I started Lithium over two weeks ago at 450mg. When I upped to 900mg the second day I woke up with a rash all over my body. Pdoc took me off of Lamictal. and since I've downed my Li. to 225mg. As of yesterday that's what it's at. My pdoc told me it takes 5 full days for lithium levels to drop. So if you just got off of Lithium yesterday, you wouldn't really feel it yet.
> Is this the lithium, lingering depression, or a bad hangover from a high BAL three months ago?**What is a BAL?
> Is this feeling reversible, or will it persist until my mind just 'gets used to it'?
** Are you asking the question as tho' you are on Lithium? i.e. Will it go away while you're on Lithium? I hope so. or Are you permanently brain damamged? THAT'S MY FEAR. I'm worried I won't get back my zest, my feeling, my motivation, inspiration, intuition, creativity, my drive etc.
> Well, I'll assume it's not alcohol related, in which case the only real cause seems to be the lithium. Been on between 300mg - 900mg daily, and have various stages of 'brain fog'. I like that phrase: it really describes how I feel at times.
**When did you drink and how much?
> I DO feel depressed, but in some ways I think the lithium is actually making me that way.**Could very well be.
> So much hunch is it's the lithium itself causing the brain fog. It's not just that, either. I've been unmotivated, slow, and just not myself. No passion for work, like usual, for example. Anhedonia but not to an extreme.**You just described me. It's not like a painful voidness of depression - it's just "eh - life? I can take it or leave it".
>
> The most annoying aspect has been this odd 'tingling' in the back of my head when I attempt to concentrate. I suddenly feel tired and just want to whack myself on the side of the head to 'snap out of it'. Nothing gels quickly, and when I'm really on the lithium I have trouble grasping abstract concepts, like calculus.**honey even when NOT on lithium I can't grasp concepts like calculus!!! But I'm having trouble grasping any concept! I also feel tired - really tired. The only way to say it is I am trapped in a stupor. I also want to whack myself over the head - it's that feeling like "snap out of it! wake up!". I just squint as though that'll help with my cognitive processes!
>
> It's endlessly frustrating... and it's worrying just waiting to snap out of it. I keep thinking I've f****'d up my brain permanently now. But this is day one of NO lithium, after two consistent weeks on about 600 mg/day, so we'll see if I feel any better come the weekend.
>
**Definitely keep in touch with your progress. Are you off of Lithium for good? Did you even feel this brain fog at 300mg? What are you onto next? Just the Celexa and Lamcital?
take care!
Katia
Posted by katia on January 8, 2004, at 23:03:08
In reply to Re: What? Non-flexible talons??? Never! » fluffy, posted by Karen_kay on January 8, 2004, at 19:55:54
Thanks Karen,
How long did your cognitive stuff last? I'm not so sure how healthy that impulse was to buy the house....but it's best to wait...yes i agree.
take care,
Katia
Posted by fluffy on January 9, 2004, at 10:25:56
In reply to Re: Lithium » katia, posted by AMD on January 8, 2004, at 18:20:13
Hi AMD--
I also wonder what BAL is??
As for your Lithium brainfog--YES IT WILL GO AWAY!! I promise you. It may take a few days, but I noticed within a couple of days after discontinuing that my normal functioning was back. (even if I was cycling again...at least I felt something, and I could write a paragraph!) It was really frustrating for me to know that I COULD write before, and the smarts were in there, but I was being blocked access to my thoughts. I never thought I would be a Lithium nay-sayer until I tried it.
When i first got diagnosed, I used to think that the people who went off their meds were just stubborn. But man--I sure have learned the hard way how frustrating this is!
Don't you wish that the doctors had to take some of this stuff to understand how annoying it is to feel so blah? They think it's fine if you don't feel morbidly depressed or manic, and that's it. They're off the hook. (luckily, I've found a doctor who won't put up with me feeling icky-poo-poo b/c he knows I won't stick with the drug in the long run anyway). In the mean time, though, searching for the drug that works and doesn't do that is proving daunting.
Best of luck to you. If you need to vent some more, this group we have going is very good.
take care,
Katy(bipolar II, rapid cycling
Currently on 250mg depakote, 25mg Lamictal,
2g omega 3's, Temazepam for sleep)
Posted by fluffy on January 9, 2004, at 10:37:42
In reply to Re: Lithium » fluffy, posted by katia on January 8, 2004, at 22:36:56
Hey Katia--
It may not last, but I woke up feeling a bit better today. My muscles aren't as loose. I do seem to have tingly hands and muscle-stuff when I start the anti-convulsants...(i looked at what happened with my Lamictal start up last year--I wrote down that my hands and face were tingling for the first week or so). Maybe it was just a temporary drug start-up thing. I guess if I keep cycling, I'll just up my dose until (hopefully) it stops. The great thing about rapid cycling is that you know really fast if you are responding to a drug! And it's great that Depakote works so fast if it will work at all.
How's today? Your grammar wasn't really bad--it was more like just typing errors and disorganized thoughts. don't worry! I didn't mean to criticize--only point out that you seem to be doing better.
lovins,
Katy
Posted by AMD on January 9, 2004, at 14:13:55
In reply to Re: Lithium » AMD, posted by katia on January 8, 2004, at 22:56:31
Katia,
My responses to your responses below. I've prefaced them with ### (soon I fear we will run out of symbols).
> ** Hi, I'm sitting here reading your post and spacing out and then re-reading it...ok. What is your diagnosis? I'm somewhere around bipolar
### My diagnosis is BPII, with a history of major
### depression. (Well, significant episodes.)
### I'm not sure I agree with the diagnosis: my
### personality exhibits some of the
### traditional 'symptoms' of hypomania. That's
### just how I am!### Questions for you: how did you feel on the
### Lamictal? Did it affect your cognition for
### better/worse? Did it help with your
### depression? Was it effective for the
### cycling? (I am on the fourth day: still
### taking just 25mg/day.)I started Lithium over two weeks ago at 450mg. When I upped to 900mg the second day I woke up with a rash all over my body. Pdoc took me off of Lamictal. and since I've downed my Li. to 225mg. As of yesterday that's what it's at. My pdoc told me it takes 5 full days for lithium levels to drop. So if you just got off of Lithium yesterday, you wouldn't really feel it yet.
### Day two, and I definitely feel a little more
### mentally alert. Still pangs of depression,
### and a lot of self-doubt, but not so bad.
### Perhaps a bit 'mixed' -- but I don't think
### so. That's just what I get for having
### that thought suggested to me.> > Is this the lithium, lingering depression, or a bad hangover from a high BAL three months ago?
>
> **What is a BAL?### Blood alcohol level: all this started after
### I (binge) drank enough to put myself in the
### hospital with a BAL of .25. That was about
### two months ago, and my medical checkup
### afterward was fine.** Are you asking the question as tho' you are on Lithium? i.e. Will it go away while you're on Lithium? I hope so. or Are you permanently brain damamged? THAT'S MY FEAR. I'm worried I won't get back my zest, my feeling, my motivation, inspiration, intuition, creativity, my drive etc.
### Bingo, my fears exactly. It's like I went
### from one person one day to a different
### person the next. Kind of hard to take with
### 26 years under my belt!> **honey even when NOT on lithium I can't grasp concepts like calculus!!! But I'm having trouble
### I can grasp them, it's just more difficult.
### I am used to reviewing a chapter I haven't
### read before class and then aceing the test.
### That kind of thing. I'm spoiled by being
### gifted!wake up!". I just squint as though that'll help with my cognitive processes!
### That's an interesting approach... =)
Are you off of Lithium for good? Did you even feel this brain fog at 300mg? What are you onto next? Just the Celexa and Lamcital?
### Yes, brain fog even at 300 mg, but nowhere
### near as badly as at 600 mg. For now, 40 mg
### Celexa, 25 mg Lamictal titrating up to 150 mg.Regards,
Adam
Posted by AMD on January 9, 2004, at 14:24:33
In reply to Re: Lithium, posted by fluffy on January 9, 2004, at 10:25:56
> Hi AMD--
>
> I also wonder what BAL is??
>
> As for your Lithium brainfog--YES IT WILL GO AWAY!! I promise you. It may take a few days,### That is so good to hear! I had been gradually
### decreasing the dose until yesterday, when I ### finally quit. Already my mind is a bit
### clearer, although I now fear I'll be obsessed
### with 'wondering' whether I am in fact
### back to my clear-thinking self. I will
### consider myself back to normal when these
### obsessions dissipate.back. (even if I was cycling again...at least I felt something, and I could write a paragraph!)
### They talk about the 'trade-off' -- for me
### I'd rather be a bit manic than unable to
### experience the highs and lows of life.> Don't you wish that the doctors had to take some of this stuff to understand how annoying it
### I think we need a directory of psychiatrists
### with mental illnesses themselves, organized
### by symptoms and medications used. I'd feel
### so much better talking to, and confident
### about, a doctor I knew had experienced
### the same symptoms I had, and that had taken
### the same medicines she's prescribing for
### those symptoms.### Lithium is the only medicine I've taken that
### really made me feel like I wasn't myself.
### And I hardly got started on it -- just took it
### on-and-off for one or two weeks at a time
### for two months.> (bipolar II, rapid cycling
> Currently on 250mg depakote, 25mg Lamictal,
> 2g omega 3's, Temazepam for sleep)### How is this combination working for you? I
### admit, I hesitate to take a lot of
### (prescription) drugs. I've now taken three
### in my lifetime (Celexa, Lithium, Lamictal)
### and I hope to be off the Lithium soon,
### gradually off the Celexa, and eventually
### off of everything.Adam
Posted by katia on January 9, 2004, at 15:33:29
In reply to Katia--feeling better today, posted by fluffy on January 9, 2004, at 10:37:42
Hi Katy,
Good news!! I'm so glad. And it's only the second day! But Depakote works fast. I went up to 750mg, but it's like everything, if it works for you at a lower level - why the hell not stay there? Are you upping your Lamictal too? Dep. doubles Lam levels. I think you'll get a nice hypomanic feeling if you up the Lam. more. (and Dep.).
I didn't take your comments as criticism. It's important to get feedback! Keep it coming.
I'm still feeling stupid, flat, (and fat!), and slow. I can't fall asleep before 3ish, but yet I'm exhausted feeling. I take more Seroquel now and then I wake up after 12. It's a crappy schedule I've been doing for over a year now.
that's me-
hugs-
katia
Posted by katia on January 9, 2004, at 15:54:55
In reply to Re: Lithium » katia, posted by AMD on January 9, 2004, at 14:13:55
Hi Adam,
> ### Questions for you: how did you feel on the
> ### Lamictal? Did it affect your cognition for
> ### better/worse? Did it help with your
> ### depression? Was it effective for the
> ### cycling? (I am on the fourth day: still
> ### taking just 25mg/day.)**When I first started lamictal, I was on Depakote as well. I got that wonderful zingy hypomania for the first few days of an upping and then it'd level off. That nice feeling only lasted as long as I was on Dep. then I got off of Dep. (I was still rapid cycling and I had a scare of Poly Cystic Ovarian Syndrome which can lead to infertility). Dep. can cause this. So I was at 200mg of Lam. and doing better than if I wasn't on anything - I could feel the power of depression knocking at my door but Lam. wouldn't let it in. However, I have intense mixed states and irritability (irrationally so on Lam. alone) hence me going to Lithium. But now, I lost Lam. due to the rash (thanks lithium) and probably will lose Lithium too. With the cognition, it probably helped in the way that I'd get really inspired (hypomanic), but then it'd level off. I was definitely writing a lot pre-Lithium.
> ### Day two, and I definitely feel a little more
> ### mentally alert. Still pangs of depression,
> ### and a lot of self-doubt, but not so bad.
> ### Perhaps a bit 'mixed' -- but I don't think
> ### so. That's just what I get for having
> ### that thought suggested to me.**Very funny - the power of suggestion. Who suggested you were mixed? And good news on getting your brain back!
### Blood alcohol level: all this started after
> ### I (binge) drank enough to put myself in the
> ### hospital with a BAL of .25. That was about
> ### two months ago, and my medical checkup
> ### afterward was fine.**So when did you get your diagnosis (dx)? How long have you been trying medication? If you just started, consider yourself lucky that you didn't have to go through a hellish year (like I did and Katy did) on antidepressants before someone finally thought about it and gave the correct dx = bipolar. It's no fun to be on ADs if you're bipolar (without a mood stabilizer with it). If you're questioning the dx, you should read other's experiences with bipolar (specifically II) and see if it resonates.
> ### Bingo, my fears exactly. It's like I went
> ### from one person one day to a different
> ### person the next. Kind of hard to take with
> ### 26 years under my belt!**Yeah, I'm feeling lots of empathy for demented elderly people or alzheimer's patients now. It's an awful feeling. And I'm 33 and have no idea who I am outside of moodiness and mood swings! (well, I have an idea, but a lithium induced stupor is not it).
> ### I can grasp them, it's just more difficult.
> ### I am used to reviewing a chapter I haven't
> ### read before class and then aceing the test.
> ### That kind of thing. I'm spoiled by being
> ### gifted!**Very gifted indeed. Are you in college?
> wake up!". I just squint as though that'll help with my cognitive processes!
>
> ### That's an interesting approach... =)**yes, that and holding your temples at the same time seems to do something...:-)
> ### Yes, brain fog even at 300 mg, but nowhere
> ### near as badly as at 600 mg. For now, 40 mg
> ### Celexa, 25 mg Lamictal titrating up to 150 mg.**It sounds like the Celexa is not helping with your depression? How long have you been on it?
Cheerio-
Katia
Posted by AMD on January 9, 2004, at 16:10:45
In reply to Re: Lithium » AMD, posted by katia on January 9, 2004, at 15:54:55
Regarding a comment you made below:
The interesting thing is, for four years, Celexa has been incredible at helping my depression. I was fine for four long years. Then I drank too much and crashed, probably for some emotional reasons in addition to my increasing alcohol consumption. At that point I was put on Lithium. (In October.)
Since then I have not had a single day where I felt myself, normal. So, on the contrary, Celexa (an AD) has worked wonders, whereas the Lithium and now Lamictal have had mixed results, at best. I'm off Lithium (day two), and I think my mind is a bit clearer, but I'm still wondering: perhaps my best option would simply be to switch to another AD. Maybe something like Prozac. I have this nagging feeling I've been overdiagnosed and I'm now entering a scary experimental phase of starting and stopping other drugs. I don't know what to think anymore... I just know that I've been depressed. Not manic. Not mixed. DEPRESSED. So I feel like I've been prescribed medicine for something I don't need fixed! Meanwhile I wait out this depression...
(The only reason I have more patience with Lamictal is that a) it appears to have fewer cognitive side effects, and b) it works as an antidepressant. Of course these two things are closely related.)
Adam
> Hi Adam,
>
> > ### Questions for you: how did you feel on the
> > ### Lamictal? Did it affect your cognition for
> > ### better/worse? Did it help with your
> > ### depression? Was it effective for the
> > ### cycling? (I am on the fourth day: still
> > ### taking just 25mg/day.)
>
> **When I first started lamictal, I was on Depakote as well. I got that wonderful zingy hypomania for the first few days of an upping and then it'd level off. That nice feeling only lasted as long as I was on Dep. then I got off of Dep. (I was still rapid cycling and I had a scare of Poly Cystic Ovarian Syndrome which can lead to infertility). Dep. can cause this. So I was at 200mg of Lam. and doing better than if I wasn't on anything - I could feel the power of depression knocking at my door but Lam. wouldn't let it in. However, I have intense mixed states and irritability (irrationally so on Lam. alone) hence me going to Lithium. But now, I lost Lam. due to the rash (thanks lithium) and probably will lose Lithium too. With the cognition, it probably helped in the way that I'd get really inspired (hypomanic), but then it'd level off. I was definitely writing a lot pre-Lithium.
>
> > ### Day two, and I definitely feel a little more
> > ### mentally alert. Still pangs of depression,
> > ### and a lot of self-doubt, but not so bad.
> > ### Perhaps a bit 'mixed' -- but I don't think
> > ### so. That's just what I get for having
> > ### that thought suggested to me.
>
> **Very funny - the power of suggestion. Who suggested you were mixed? And good news on getting your brain back!
>
> ### Blood alcohol level: all this started after
> > ### I (binge) drank enough to put myself in the
> > ### hospital with a BAL of .25. That was about
> > ### two months ago, and my medical checkup
> > ### afterward was fine.
>
> **So when did you get your diagnosis (dx)? How long have you been trying medication? If you just started, consider yourself lucky that you didn't have to go through a hellish year (like I did and Katy did) on antidepressants before someone finally thought about it and gave the correct dx = bipolar. It's no fun to be on ADs if you're bipolar (without a mood stabilizer with it). If you're questioning the dx, you should read other's experiences with bipolar (specifically II) and see if it resonates.
>
> > ### Bingo, my fears exactly. It's like I went
> > ### from one person one day to a different
> > ### person the next. Kind of hard to take with
> > ### 26 years under my belt!
>
> **Yeah, I'm feeling lots of empathy for demented elderly people or alzheimer's patients now. It's an awful feeling. And I'm 33 and have no idea who I am outside of moodiness and mood swings! (well, I have an idea, but a lithium induced stupor is not it).
>
> > ### I can grasp them, it's just more difficult.
> > ### I am used to reviewing a chapter I haven't
> > ### read before class and then aceing the test.
> > ### That kind of thing. I'm spoiled by being
> > ### gifted!
>
> **Very gifted indeed. Are you in college?
>
> > wake up!". I just squint as though that'll help with my cognitive processes!
> >
> > ### That's an interesting approach... =)
>
> **yes, that and holding your temples at the same time seems to do something...:-)
>
> > ### Yes, brain fog even at 300 mg, but nowhere
> > ### near as badly as at 600 mg. For now, 40 mg
> > ### Celexa, 25 mg Lamictal titrating up to 150 mg.
>
> **It sounds like the Celexa is not helping with your depression? How long have you been on it?
>
> Cheerio-
> Katia
Posted by fluffy on January 9, 2004, at 16:24:35
In reply to Re: Lithium » fluffy, posted by AMD on January 9, 2004, at 14:24:33
Hi Adam--My replies are with a ***.
>
> ### That is so good to hear! I had been gradually
> ### decreasing the dose until yesterday, when I ### finally quit. Already my mind is a bit
> ### clearer, although I now fear I'll be obsessed
> ### with 'wondering' whether I am in fact
> ### back to my clear-thinking self. I will
> ### consider myself back to normal when these
> ### obsessions dissipate.***Believe me--you'll know when you're back to full thinking capacity. It will just creep in slowly, and you'll find yourself not even thinking about it (like you hypothesize).
> ### They talk about the 'trade-off' -- for me
> ### I'd rather be a bit manic than unable to
> ### experience the highs and lows of life.
>
***I think all of us wished our "normal" was hypomanic--we'd be dynamos--unstopable and genius. But alas--what comes up must come down. At this point, I experience more depression than hypomania. So the trade off for me better damn well mean that I'm less depressed!> ### I think we need a directory of psychiatrists
> ### with mental illnesses themselves, organized
> ### by symptoms and medications used. I'd feel
> ### so much better talking to, and confident
> ### about, a doctor I knew had experienced
> ### the same symptoms I had, and that had taken
> ### the same medicines she's prescribing for
> ### those symptoms.
>
> ### Lithium is the only medicine I've taken that
> ### really made me feel like I wasn't myself.
> ### And I hardly got started on it -- just took it
> ### on-and-off for one or two weeks at a time
> ### for two months.
>
***In theory, I like this idea--but only when I'm frustrated. Scientific objectivity has its place, for sure. Otherwise, all of us head cases would be manipulating the hell out of one another. Sometimes people with the same diagnosis can be more judgemental and biased about treatments and medications. (of course, based on their personal experiences).> > (bipolar II, rapid cycling
> > Currently on 250mg depakote, 25mg Lamictal,
> > 2g omega 3's, Temazepam for sleep)
>
> ### How is this combination working for you? I
> ### admit, I hesitate to take a lot of
> ### (prescription) drugs. I've now taken three
> ### in my lifetime (Celexa, Lithium, Lamictal)
> ### and I hope to be off the Lithium soon,
> ### gradually off the Celexa, and eventually
> ### off of everything.
>
> Adam***I'm really not sure how this combo is doing for me yet. I'm ramping up on Depakote slowly and hopefully again on the Lamictal. It's only been two days on Depakote. So far, I just feel kinda foggy , slow and heavy. It may pass as I get used to it. Lamictal has by far been the most successful for me. I've been searching for the drug to put the final touches on my coctail--I still rapid cycle on Lamictal alone, and have lots of irritability and sleep problems (basically, hypomania). I need a "mania cap". to get me evened out i think. Lithium was not my bag. Trileptal worked great, but it started leaching sodium from my system, which is dangerous. So I had to quit.
I've been at the drawing board for almost a year now trying to get all this worked out. *sigh*
I'll keep y'all updated.best of luck,
katy
Posted by Karen_kay on January 9, 2004, at 17:01:33
In reply to Here's to coming together » Karen_kay, posted by katia on January 8, 2004, at 23:03:08
My cognitive preoblems lasted about a month and a half maybe 2 months. And I still occasionally have a problem with word finding, but not very often. I noticed it last night and the word just came to me "anticipate!!!" YES! But, I don't know if it's from the Topamax or just forgetfulness, you know? I have a real problem with my memory which has nothing to do with meds. (Strange how that word just came to me though....)
But, again I am very tolerant of medications. I have low side effects from them. I can't speak from experience about Tegretol or Trileptal because I didn't try either. But, you could do an archive search here to see what others who were on them faced. That could let you know the type of side effects to expect.
How's your thesis coming along? Is the "fog" lifting? I'm waving my magic med wand to help lift the fog and help restore you mental capabilities 110%. Here's looking at you and wishing you luck on your thesis! Also, if you could buy me a house while you're at it, I'd appreciate it. Just a small, 6 bedroom, 3 bath is fine for now :) Take care, Karen
Posted by socks on January 10, 2004, at 8:39:22
In reply to Re: Lithium, posted by fluffy on January 9, 2004, at 10:25:56
Hi,
I was diagnosed three weeks ago with Bi-Polar II. At present I am using 1000mg Depakote and 300 mg Wellbutrin. AS of the last few days, I feel better and in more balance. I have been told that once the Depakote "kicks in", watch out, in a good way. I hope so. Still feel a little subdued but better than being so depressed I couldn't go for 10 minutes without feeling the need to cry. I also hope it will help with the feelings I have had of being able to do everything, like the Bionic Woman! This is a beginning of a journey and I know that I am only hitting the onramp!
Keep the faith!
Socks
Posted by fluffy on January 10, 2004, at 11:05:11
In reply to Re: Lithium, posted by socks on January 10, 2004, at 8:39:22
Hi Socks--
I have some questions for you re: Depakote. I just started with 250mg for my bipolar II. I also am hopeful that it will kick in and be my wonder drug.
i'm only on my 3rd day. When you first started, did you feel drugged/tired/unemotional/sorta depressed? If so, did this eventually fade away? I know that I've had icky side effects on other drugs that passed over time. (I think I felt sick and drugged on Paxil for like 3 weeks before it worked). I'm just feeling pretty darned awful right now and i need to know there's the possibility of this drugged groggy-ness going bye-bye.
Welcome to our group, socks. (I like the name!). I also hope you will feel restored to as close to normal as you can be, and feel better soon.
Are you at all freaking about your diagnosis? I was diagnosed a year ago, and my doctor and I have been fumbling around with my med cocktail for about that long. I hope you hit the nail on the head with the depakote and the wellbutrin.
good luck,
Katy
Posted by socks on January 10, 2004, at 14:49:41
In reply to Re: Lithium, posted by fluffy on January 10, 2004, at 11:05:11
Hi Fluffy,
I completely freaked out at my diagnosis. I was a wreck, felt like a complete failure, read alot of stuff that made me feel hopeless. My self-image was shattered. Then I met with my T and she calmed me down, let me know we can battle this and assured me that she would there for me. Then she went on to say that many brilliant people have had this diagnosis so that the company we keep is pretty good. Then I meet with my pdoc the next day. I went on and on to him about my feelings of being worthless. He let me carry on for about 5 minutes then he said, look, this illness has had some very positive effects for you and has allowed in some ways, to grow your career. He said that he also would be there to get the meds right and help me along the way. At that point, I felt much better hearing it from two people.
As for the Depakote, I started at 500 mg a day and was very weepy at first. I would cry at anything. We did that for a week. Then we increased it to 1000mg and kept the Wellbutrin. After almost two weeks at these levels, my weepy times are gone, my "I want a nap" at 2pm thing is gone and I am starting to get my concentration back. I am having very weird dreams but that's okay! I am very hopeful that this will work. Let's compare notes as I think this may be a pretty good combination!
Keep me posted(literally),
Socks!
Posted by katia on January 10, 2004, at 16:47:05
In reply to Re: Lithium, posted by fluffy on January 10, 2004, at 11:05:11
Hi Katy,
How's it going? I remember when I first started Depakote at the lower doses I went hypomanic - went wild. did stupid things with strange french man...the pdoc said that this is consistent with the dx since other bp peps have experienced that on low doses of Dep. just a word of warning...maybe you need something activating - like upping of Lam. to offset the fatigue you feel on Dep. It's only been three days you probably don't even have Dep. therapeutic levels yet in your blood. I wouldn't judge anything at this point.
take care-
katia
Posted by katia on January 10, 2004, at 16:51:33
In reply to Re: Here's to coming together » katia, posted by Karen_kay on January 9, 2004, at 17:01:33
Hi Karen,
It's hard to tell if the fog is lifting b/c I did something stupid last night - drank too much and "gave 'em something to talk about". Thesis is in limbo. Oh, loved to buy you a house, but I'm fooling myself in thinking I can. I wait tables three x a week! I live in the bay area where you can't really get anything under $400,000 - maybe a small two bedroom and that's not in the best part of town.
I'm angry with myself. I'll probably go on Antabuse 'cuz I just can't do this alone.
take care,
Katia
Posted by katia on January 10, 2004, at 16:54:42
In reply to Re: Lithium » katia, posted by AMD on January 9, 2004, at 16:10:45
Hi Adam,
If you were on Celexa for four years and it worked then I wonder about your dx as well. What happened surrounding the time when you drank too much? Just wondering why you got the dx of bipolar. What sort of questions did s/he ask?
just curious...
katia
Posted by fluffy on January 11, 2004, at 11:21:38
In reply to Re: Lithium, posted by socks on January 10, 2004, at 14:49:41
Hi again Socks--
Yeah--no bones about it--getting a BP diagnosis is just devistating. The doctors try to soften it for you, but what a shocker to find out you'll have to deal with something the rest of your life. AND you wonder what your personality is apart from the "disease". If you're a perfectionist like me, it's even harder. I've probably tried to control all of this too much. When things get tough, I want to be at the driving wheel--"gimme that! I'll drive!" My "T" is helping with that stuff a great deal. It's been a year, and sometimes it seems harder because all that time has passed, and I still haven't quite gotten to my normal yet. I've had a rough time with medication trials. But I'm having to look at the monster face to face. Before, I didn't know what the hell was wrong with me. I was clinically depressed, and could barely get up take a shower for months. I can't say it's been worse than that since. At least now I'm in the know. If you need to talk about this stuff, just post--it's an uphill battle for awhile. The PB boards are great for support.
Thankfully, the Depakote isn't making me feel like I've been bludgeoned in the head anymore. I'm still having trouble sleeping at night--having to resort to my benzo to get some "zzzz's". I'm quite sure my doctor will up the dose when I go to see him on Monday. I was just dreading the titration if I'd have to feel like I have the past couple of days. I, too cried non-stop on day one and two (hard to say if that was just plain depression with a dallop of being "drugged" on top, though.) I was telling Katia in an earlier post that I had to take crying breaks from work!
I guess if the Depakote only squashes the "up" part of my cycle, we can titrate the Lamictal up again. It did a fine job of helping my depressions.
Let me know how you're doing,
Katy
Posted by fluffy on January 11, 2004, at 11:25:51
In reply to Re: BP freakin', posted by fluffy on January 11, 2004, at 11:21:38
If you don't already have it, then find this at your local library or bookstore. I find it very helpful still, and it was great to have when I was first diagnosed. It's called "The Bipolar Survival Guide: What you and your family need to know".
Posted by socks on January 11, 2004, at 13:50:23
In reply to Re: BP freakin' (good book to check out, Socks), posted by fluffy on January 11, 2004, at 11:25:51
Thanks Fluffy,
By the way, we sound like a couple of cats, hence, that is where my name came from! Anyway, I will check the book out, have seen it recommended before.
As for being a perfectionist, I never thought of myself that way but realize now that I was in some ways. In grade shool, if I didn't get the best grade or the most "a's", it was devestating. In work, I was always wanting to get promoted ahead even though I may not have "paid my dues". I would feel that I was gonna make that next sale and cure all my financial woes. As a financial planner, not a very good plan!!!!!! When I read the Dx, it all came crashing to me. The good news is, something concrete!
I will keep posting when I feel the need, Keep me posted on your meds, hope you can find the right combo!!
All the best,
Socks
Posted by katia on January 11, 2004, at 15:50:33
In reply to Re: BP freakin', posted by fluffy on January 11, 2004, at 11:21:38
Hi Katy,
When I was on Depakote, I didn't need any sleep aids. You say you're having trouble sleeping, but then feel groggy the next day? (god, how familiar is that?). could be your sleep aid? I think if you titrate up, you'll sleep better and won't need the sleep aid. Everyone's totally individual, but like I said at the low dose of 250mg it caused hypomania. good to hear you feel better.
Are you still doing your artwork? What's your website? (I thought you said you had one)
Katia
Posted by fluffy on January 11, 2004, at 16:33:56
In reply to Re: BP freakin' » fluffy, posted by katia on January 11, 2004, at 15:50:33
Hi Katia--
I can't imagine that Depakote would "cause" hypomania--just not prevent it--especially at a low dose like 250mg. According to my mood chart, my hypomania is basically gone--I'm just undulating on the low side now. I've been taking Temazepam for sleep for a week now. So I probably do need to taper off, and titrate up one more bump on Depakote to see if it helps.
I'm not feeling "sleepy" during the day. It's not like my eye-lids are heavy. I feel all drugged up and icky--. I can't say I like that I just feel depressed. The depakote has chopped off one of the heads of the two-headed monster. Unfortunately, it was the one that helped me get my work done and catch up from being depressed! I think I'll suggest upping Lamictal carefully, once the Depakote is at its optimal dose. I think we're getting somewhere slowly. I see my doctor tomorrow. Joy!
I'm still working on my art when I'm not all drugged up or depressed. It's actually going in a pretty good direction, and I'm in a good position to get the ball rolling once I'm feeling better. One step at a time.How are you doing? What's up with the Lithium? When's your next appointment w/ your doc?
Keep me posted and take lots of care,
katy
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.