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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 5928 to 5952 of 10407. Go back in thread:
Posted by Lyrical13 on December 26, 2003, at 0:54:34
In reply to Re: Effexor, think twice!!!! » Lyrical13, posted by sasha71 on December 25, 2003, at 20:41:31
I am having the same troubles with word-finding and memory. Sometimes at night I am ready to fall asleep by 9pm (and I'm usually a night owl). But these effects weren't as bad on the Effexor alone. They have been very noticable since adding Seroquel and Synthroid. Anyone else notice this?
Lyrical 13
Posted by jerseydevil on December 26, 2003, at 10:01:45
In reply to Re: Effexor, think twice!!!!, posted by Lyrical13 on December 26, 2003, at 0:54:34
I've been on Effexor for about three weeks and Paxil (another SSRI) for several years now. I'm also on Welbutrin at 400 mg/day (since about a year ago, the plan was to go on Welbutrin and wean off of Paxil, still in the process, the low dose of Effexor is to help finish the job - really it is a Thread of its own). I have experienced no "word loss" which I associate with the SSRIs or ADs. I experienced significant "word loss" when my Neurontin was bumped up to 2400 mg/day. My pdoc's solution was to scale back the Neurontin (I have since scaled it back further, which my pdoc knows about) and give me Provigil. Provigil is like speed for Alzheimers patients and it does seem to "pro"mote "vigil"ance. The other remedy seems to be time. The brain is an amazing thing and can reroute itself ever more quickly to find a word the fits the place of the word you can't find. These days I can sometimes notice when it happens even though no one else would ever notice. Good luck and talk to your pdoc.
- jerseydevil
Posted by mMarie on December 26, 2003, at 14:45:24
In reply to Re: Word loss. From Effexor?, posted by jerseydevil on December 26, 2003, at 10:01:45
Hi there--
I'm new and I need your help. I've been on effexor for about 3 months, I got off b/c i was losing a lot of hair and worried that it might be a side-effect. About 2 weeks after getting off I started having night flushes, similar to a menopausal hot flash. I am not menopausal and I am in my late 20's. This is particularly stressful as I have Rosacea and these flushing are a making a mild case much worse. I did not have these night flushes before taking the Effexor.
Hot flashes are directly linked to norepinephrine. Blocking NoreP will prevent the hot flash. Effexor has been successful in treating menopausal women b/c it is a NoreP Reuptake Inhibitor. Like Serotonin, more NoreP floats around in the brain as it has been blocked from re-uptake. Atleast this is how I understand it.
Question: Could the Effexor after 3 months of only 37.5mg have permanently altered my brain function? Could I be producing more NoreP--Could I be out of balance? How long does it take the chemical substances in the brain to return to the state they were in PRE-Effexor OR CAN EFFEXOR CAUSE PERMANENT CHANGES?
Please help, going crazy, Marie.
Posted by mom_cheeks on December 27, 2003, at 8:53:00
In reply to effexor changes in brain funxn. Help?, posted by mMarie on December 26, 2003, at 14:45:24
I had night sweats for the first 3 weeks. Unfortunately, if Effexor works for you, it will take MONTHS to feel its real effects. Also, I cannot stress enough that the meds. must exist in combination with life changes, therepy, a new attitude etc. Your deep, underlying issues which are often the case with depression/anxiety will not be fixed by the meds.
However, stick it out - and remember, the night sweats are a side-effect of the meds; you are NOT going crazy, and are not losing it.
I think when people decide to go on these, often times they are at "rock bottom" so the combination of that mental state and the side-effects makes you feel like you are losing it.I promise, it does get better, and they do go away.
Posted by mom_cheeks on December 27, 2003, at 9:12:12
In reply to been on it for a month - good but is there more?, posted by PennyLane on December 16, 2003, at 0:46:39
Hi there.
I can completely relate to you. I have had GAD with bouts of depression for years. I understand what you mean about the shrooms and the anxiety attack, I had a massive one when i was stoned on pot (I smoke very occassionally) and I think it was when things started to get worse. However, I had GAD, ulcers, nervous habits galore for years before that, so my situation is a little different.
THis last 8 months on Effexor has changed my life. Here is what I have learned that I hope can help you. Its great you have support, that makes THE difference.
1. Change your thinking to think of it as a scientific equaton. Your brain, just as it can learn math, english, and science, LEARNS anxiety. FROM ONE ATTACK. You have to unlearn it. Don't feel bad about that. YOU ARE NOT CRAZY. It will happen, get as much help as you can. Ask your doctor about CBT - COgnitive behavioral therepy. It really works, because it doesn't focus on WHY you are having the attacks, it focuses on re-directing your brain away from it.
2. I am convinced that the depression is a direct result of the anxiety. If your brain keeps dumping adreniline and cortisol daily, it is bound to have effects. The same way long-distance runners get knee injury. Constant ware has its effects. During anxiety attacks, it changes the way your body reponds. It tires you out. That makes sense.
3. NO ONE EVER WENT CRAZY FROM AN ANXIETY ATTACK. Although I know that feeling of walking the tightrope REALLY well, you are not going to lose it. You are smart, intelligent and your dreams will come back.
4. Talk to someone you trust about how you are feeling as much as you feel you have to. I bet that right after, your anxiety will lessen. Let it rip, everyone has problems in life, those that say they don't are lying.
I really feel for you. If you would like to "chat" over email, my name is Jen, and my email address is jenathome7@hotmail.com. Please email, I will try to help as much as I can. I have been there!!!
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 27, 2003, at 21:31:18
In reply to Re: Effexor XR - I'm new! Please help...., posted by Lyrical13 on December 26, 2003, at 0:51:57
> I am reading a book right now that I stumbled onto at the library looking up books about depression/anxiety/BP etc. It's called "The Antidepressant Survival Guide" I don't have it handy right now to tell you the author but so far it's very good.
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by Cali7772003 on December 28, 2003, at 5:13:00
In reply to Re: Effexor XR - I'm new! Please help...., posted by Lyrical13 on December 26, 2003, at 0:51:57
Hi everyone,
I just got off Effexor XR 75 cold turkey and I had no idea there were these awful side effects to getting off. I just moved and druing the move I decided new life no more of these wierd pills and went stark raving mad my Husband and Family all think I was on crack. I fell like a person is playing guitar with my nerves. Or the other fun one is the feeling someone is poking you with electricity. I was never suppose to be on a drug like this in the first place went to some idiot Phychirist through a friend when I was depressed the Doc was like take this and go away never told me how awful this was. I am having nightmares I am always cold cannot focus but I am awake and starting to calm down. I am cheating taking some Xanax which my new Doc put me on a low dose take the edge off. Use for emergencies because you really feel like you are going to die or have a heart attack and Xanax is addictive but at least they all tell you that and you take what you need. I have one very important question. It sounds vain but the only thing I really like is my thick hair but since being ont his drug and getting off my hair is shedding like lots of it is coming out is this normal? I do not have cancer, aids, thryroid etc.. My new Indian Doc assured me when this is over it will grow back it is the stress of the move and getting off this effexor crap. Please tell me if you had that problem and if it gets better I mean I used to bleach my hair perm it and this never happened it freaks me out. I want to make sure I am not hallucinating it seems there is a lot of hair more than usual in the sink. I am on my third week of not taking this drug. I really wish some Docs would pay attention to what they give people. Effexor XR is for people who are NEVER suppose to get off of it. Thanks for your posts on the nightmares I never had those before until now. UGH. Well Happy New Year I am staying home this year so I can get better. Last question how long before you feel uh normal again and does your hair grow back right? I am not bald or anything I was told need to eat lots of protein. I was depressed now I feel awake and alive but the withdrawls of this drug suck worse than actully being depressed. I hope they do not give this to sucidal peole I am not never have been but for the first time I feel like just crawling under a damn rock for a year or so. Thanks. Cali
Posted by Gummybear on December 28, 2003, at 14:59:56
In reply to Re: Effexor XR - I'm new! Please help...., posted by Cali7772003 on December 28, 2003, at 5:13:00
Hi, I am 23 years old and have developped GAD and major depression about 4 weeks ago. I have since been on Effexor XR at 37.5mg for one week, 75mg for another week, and now 150mg.
When I increased my dose from 75mg to 150mg, I have started to get uncontrollable muscle twitches. It's really scaring me.... Do these go away????? They are not major but the worst part is that they are uncontrollable... have I messed up my nervous system somehow??? Please help....
Also, I wake up constantly during the night - I think this is from the Effexor XR.... does this also go away???? Will I ever be able to sleep again???
The Doctor has prescribed 25mg of Seroquel at night, which I have been taking... can this drug have serious side effects on such a low dose??? it's an anti-phsycotic drug which I am very reluctant in taking.
Please any help would be greatly appreciated??? Do this problems go away with time??? It's only been 4 weeks.... thanks,
G. Bear.
Posted by dragonfly25 on December 28, 2003, at 17:21:20
In reply to Effexor XR - Some Advice Desperately Needed.HELP., posted by Gummybear on December 28, 2003, at 14:59:56
Hi G. Bear
i had muscle twitches and "brain shocks" as someone described in another post. i had them the entire time i was on effexor. but i wasn't sure the twitches were caused by the drug or the combination i was on. you have confirmed for me that it was effexor. the twitches have gone away about 80%. i have on rare occasions more exaggerated falling asleep twitches, i understand your concern about the nevrous system as i still stress about that. i would talk to your doc about lowering your dose, that helped me. as for seroquil, if it helps take it, i don't think it will do anything to you. but i would discuss with your doc whether effexor is working for you or not- i am not clear if it has helped your GAD and depression. if it hasn't it doesn't make sense to add anotehr drug to treat a side effect that you are getting from a drug that is making you feel any better. my personal opinion is to avoid drugs as much as you can and try to deal with things in therapy- that is coming from someone on 2 drugs working my way down to one, but doctors are quite eager to prescribe and as a patient we should be wary. i really hope this is helpful.
dragonfly> Hi, I am 23 years old and have developped GAD and major depression about 4 weeks ago. I have since been on Effexor XR at 37.5mg for one week, 75mg for another week, and now 150mg.
>
> When I increased my dose from 75mg to 150mg, I have started to get uncontrollable muscle twitches. It's really scaring me.... Do these go away????? They are not major but the worst part is that they are uncontrollable... have I messed up my nervous system somehow??? Please help....
>
> Also, I wake up constantly during the night - I think this is from the Effexor XR.... does this also go away???? Will I ever be able to sleep again???
>
> The Doctor has prescribed 25mg of Seroquel at night, which I have been taking... can this drug have serious side effects on such a low dose??? it's an anti-phsycotic drug which I am very reluctant in taking.
>
> Please any help would be greatly appreciated??? Do this problems go away with time??? It's only been 4 weeks.... thanks,
>
> G. Bear.
Posted by maxx44 on December 28, 2003, at 18:33:11
In reply to Re: Effexor XR - Some Advice Desperately Needed.HELP., posted by dragonfly25 on December 28, 2003, at 17:21:20
a very good point. in view of the fact that these shrink drugs may and often do permanently alter the 'core' personality, lithium, the new ADs, neuroleptics especially---best be very carefulf. ethics takes second place to money. here.
Posted by Gummybear on December 28, 2003, at 19:25:08
In reply to Re: Effexor XR - Some Advice Desperately Needed.HELP., posted by maxx44 on December 28, 2003, at 18:33:11
Hey drangonfly and maxx, thanks for your input. The Effexor XR HAS actually helped me since I'm doing 10X better than I was 3 weeks ago where I couldn't get out of bed all day and was crying everyday. Now I'm not crying anymore and am starting to do day to day activities again... though I still have anxiety and attacks and then get down about them. But progress has been made and that's why I'm hopefull and sticking to them.
The twitches really freak me out though... anybody else on Effexor XR experience them and did they ever go away????
And what did you mean that these meds can alter a person's personality permanently???? that's sooo scary??? Has anybody noticed their personality change???? I've changed but that's a result of my sudden bout of anxiety and depression not the meds.... also, my "core" self I still believe is the same.
I'm really reluctant to be taking the Seroquel (anti-phycosis med.) - the DR. told me to take 25mg at night to rid me of my constant worrying thoughts... but it makes me feel like their is a void in my head, or just emptiness and in the morning I am groggy. But I'll be stopping the Seroquel this week.....
Please share any experiences you've had with Seroquel and Effexor XR side effects - like the twitching....
Thanks a millionn,
G. Bear.
Posted by maxx44 on December 28, 2003, at 19:28:22
In reply to Re: Effexor XR - I'm new! Please help...., posted by Cali7772003 on December 28, 2003, at 5:12:58
that's why you must taper down. maybe it's just me, but the taper for the old tcas and maois is a week. even in carefully monitored combos, which does work, and is common practice in the Northwest states, and considered too dangerous by some---even then 'noway' does this correlate to the problems i keep hearing from posters as you.
as for xanax? well, you take even low-dose benzos daily and try to quit that cold---then you'll see trouble---if this is a temp measure, real temp, you may get away with it. for instance, i've been tossed in cardiac icu from massive panic attacks--i know The Fear. you know what i mean. i would not touch a benzo unless i knew it was 'the big one coming'---you can tell. the temptation to use daily is powerful, non-panic disorder people have absolutely no idea of what these deals are like. but perhaps you may learn from my experience as a rich cash pay/week client of shrinks---they all said 'take the panic, not the pill.' i got hooked fast on benzos in the medicare system---not as a $$$ paying ceo. i had no idea of the disaster benzo use brings. it would be good, if you never found out. regards
Posted by maxx44 on December 28, 2003, at 19:50:51
In reply to Re: Effexor XR - Some Advice Desperately Needed.HELP., posted by Gummybear on December 28, 2003, at 19:25:08
prior to lithium, i had a 'temper'---i could get pissed. within months that aspect of my personality was gone. good? no. because also gone was the keen entrpreneurial edge of easy fortune.
furthermore, my wife of 25 years divorced me as i was no longer a 'hot-temper-aggressive' personality. it has never returned. she loved the original 'me'. ADs should not produce such effects, but many here indicate the new one's do. benzos certainly do. scary???damn right. look out.
Posted by maxx44 on December 28, 2003, at 20:13:14
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » mom_cheeks, posted by Zellie on December 25, 2003, at 21:06:15
we're all unique--it works, it works. good news
Posted by Lyrical13 on December 28, 2003, at 23:10:22
In reply to Re: double double quotes » Lyrical13, posted by Dr. Bob on December 27, 2003, at 21:31:18
Dr. Bob clued me into the double double quotes feature so here's that book title again:
"The Antidepressant Survival Guide"
Hopefully that will link you to amazon.com if you're interested in finding that book
L13
Posted by Lyrical13 on December 28, 2003, at 23:37:03
In reply to Effexor XR - Some Advice Desperately Needed.HELP., posted by Gummybear on December 28, 2003, at 14:59:56
>>
> Also, I wake up constantly during the night - I think this is from the Effexor XR.... does this also go away???? Will I ever be able to sleep again???I have some sleep problems on Effexor. Sometimes I sleep fine. sometimes I wake up about every hour. Sometimes I sleep for only 2-4 hours and then am wide awake the whole rest of the night and day and repeat the same pattern the next day for a few days in a row before I can sleep OK again. For me, I think I go into a hypomanic state...it turns out that I am BP2 instead of depressed with GAD. You have to be very careful with Effexor and other ADs because they can push you into hypomania or even full blown mania...esp. if you are actually BP instead of depressed/GAD. The 2 conditions look a lot alike. Also, in my experience with psych meds, side effects tend to go away after a few weeks. It sounds like your dosage was upped rather rapidly. I was on 75mg for several weeks before mine was increased to 150. Then I was on 150 for almost a year. It was just upped to 225mg (the max dose) in Sept. I also have just recently started taking Seroquel. I started it about 2 months ago. It is an atypical antipsychotic and is one of 4 main ways to augment ADs. But that's not typically the first thing that's tried. The reason my doc is augmenting my AD is that I have been on a few differnt ADs in past 6 years and have maxed out (beyond maxed) a couple of them. He said for my type of depression and because I had already had the above experiences with meds, that one alone wouldn't do it...I needed another type to augment.
I was very hesitant to try Seroquel...just the fact that it's an AP sounded scary. But it's much milder in terms of long term side effects as far as they know so far (it hasn't been around long enough to really know) Also, the dose usually used for people with schizophrenia or other conditions for which an AP is prescribed are on something like 400 or so mg. The max dose usually for using it to augment an AD is 100mg. I am on 50mg. The advantage to it is that it starts to work quickly. I was starting to think about suicide and within about 3 days of starting seroquel I was feeling 200% better. I got to the end of the week and realized that I hadn't had a crying jag or fallen apart at work all week. by the end of 2 weeks I was feeling almost normal.
I had weird side effects when I started and when I upped the dose..mostly very groggy and out of it...in fact when I uppped it to 50 I actually fell down the bottom 3 steps as I was walking downstairs one morning because I was so groggy and my perception was off. But now I'm just fine.
It sounds like the rate at which your meds has been increased plus a whole other drug added all within a month if I understand you right could be contributing to your side effects. But I don't know what state you were in before you started on meds or why the doc started you in that manner. I always tell docs that I'm very sensitive to meds and usually only need pediatric doses and I'm very cautious about starting/increasing meds...I always do it on a weekend so that I don't have to worry about going to work and my husband is around to watch out for me if it goes badly.
As far as the twitching goes, I haven't really experienced that..my legs jump repeatedly and annoyingly when my blood sugar is off...and sometimes when things seem OK..it's always in the late evening when I'm trying to mellow out and wind down and am laying on the couch watching Tv. Very annoying.
I hope this helped a little
>
> The Doctor has prescribed 25mg of Seroquel at night, which I have been taking... can this drug have serious side effects on such a low dose??? it's an anti-phsycotic drug which I am very reluctant in taking.
>
>
Posted by Lyrical13 on December 28, 2003, at 23:47:04
In reply to Re: Effexor XR - Some Advice Desperately Needed.HELP., posted by dragonfly25 on December 28, 2003, at 17:21:20
i am not clear if it has helped your GAD and depression. if it hasn't it doesn't make sense to add anotehr drug to treat a side effect that you are getting from a drug that is making you feel any better. > >
As I understand it, the Seroquel is not to treat the side effects of the Effexor (I am on the same combo but different dosages). It is to make the Effexor work better. effexor is supposed ot help with depression and GAD. For me the depressoin was improving but I was still incredibly anxious all the time.
When I started the Seroquel the anxiety got better quickly as did my mood. It just gives the Effexor a boost. It really has nothing to do with you being psychotic or anything. It is just a med that was traditionally designed as an AP that they have discovered helps with mood/anxiety too. Just like they discoverd that pediatric seizure meds work as mood stabilizers and ADs help migraine sufferers. And it works fast. If you're in a really bad spot, it will work faster than other methods of augmentation to help you feel better more quickly. I was at the point where I just couldn't take it anymore (depression/anxiety) I was getting desperate and so frustrated that I was doing everything I knew how to do..taking my meds religiously, exercising every day, avoiding caffeine and sugar, getting enough rest, going to counseling etc..and was still having such a rough time. The Seroquel produced results within a couple days.
Hope this clears up the confusion and eases your mind a bit about the Seroquel.
Posted by Jaynee on December 29, 2003, at 13:17:39
In reply to Re: Effexor XR - Some Advice Desperately Needed.HELP., posted by maxx44 on December 28, 2003, at 19:50:51
Are you sure you wife didn't leave the "keen entrpreneurial edge of easy fortune" as opposed to the "'hot-temper-aggressive' personality"? Just an observation.
I am sorry to hear about your misfortune, I really am, but I don't think you should try and scare others with statements that these type of medications change someones personality for good, because for most or the majority of people they don't.
Posted by maxx44 on December 29, 2003, at 13:26:39
In reply to Re: Effexor XR - Some Advice Desperately Needed.HELP., posted by Lyrical13 on December 28, 2003, at 23:37:03
re:seroquel---you're right, it has not been around long enough for the negatives to display. from experience and observation of others i advise extreme caution with any neuroleptic---trazadone will aid sleep, do no harm, and no chance of futzing your deep-brain, or effecting 'core' personality. it's an old 'atypical' AD often scripted for sleep aid.
the AD properties are very good for most. 1st, search any potential adverse interactions with effexor, then ask your dr. you will find in the lit, all APs seem to be more likely to adversely effect 'affective-disorder' clients than 'thought-disorder' people. in fact, you will find affective-disorder is considered a risk-factor for AP negatives, except for the short-term control of Acute mania. you will also find APs may 'bop' you, even at low-dose, at any time. you need sleep aid? ask about trazadone, please. it's old, safe, no withdrawal syndromes--you'll probably sleep like a babe. good luck, watch your step. best wishes
Posted by maxx44 on December 29, 2003, at 15:26:24
In reply to Heh Max,..............., posted by Jaynee on December 29, 2003, at 13:17:39
1st, my ex had a history of 'fighting' with her father and other significant relatives, obviously before we met. she would become pms aggressive, exhibit hysteria then seek 'making-up'. she openly stated her best sexual events followed a 'fight' (screaming, throwing, attempting to leap out of our car, etc.). marriage/couple therapist are quite familiar with this personality type, where the 'fight/makeup' cycle seems needed. 2nd, although people do love prosperity vs. being busted flat, this woman stuck by me for 25 years, 9 children, through IRS 'very-wealthy' years And intermittent periods of living in tents on welfare. she continues these behaviours with our children and has been arrested for assault on both sons and daughters, even post menopause. the fact she 'fell-out-of-love' after my lithium use eliminated my 'co-fighter/makeup' status obviously takes precedence over money.
'scaring' people is not my goal. corroborated data is all i wish to convey. if you feel long-term use of neuroleptics or benzos may not produce possible irreversible changes in 'core' personality, perhaps an intense web search will resolve your doubt. i have repeatedly stated my ignorance of the new ADs. off-and-on use of tcas/maois/trazadone all left me 'as i was'. no major withdrawal, no addiction. however, many posts on this board do indicate 'addictive-type' withdrawal syndromes from the newer ADs. whether these drugs may precipitate protracted or permanent personality change? i don't know. i have no argument against the fact that many benefit from the newer ADs and am happy for those.
my 'style' annoys some and pleases others---but i do not wish to frighten, rather, from experience of myself and known others, present an adversarial position for all who may benefit. i appreciate your post and feel a 'strong' net-search on your part will lead to a better understanding of my purpose. we're all unique, but meds are serious biz. this is a med-board. not a 'pat-on-the-back' one. if dr. bob perceived my posts as simple 'scare' bunk---you would not be reading this. regards
Posted by KimberlyDi on December 29, 2003, at 16:10:30
In reply to Re: Effexor XR - Some Advice Desperately Needed.HELP., posted by Gummybear on December 28, 2003, at 19:25:08
Personality change? Heck yes. I went from a suicidal emotional wreck to someone much calmer and rational. I started being more social; starting conversations with strangers waiting in line at a grocery store. Started smiling at people, and they smiled back. Change isn't always bad.
:) KDi in TX
> Hey drangonfly and maxx, thanks for your input. The Effexor XR HAS actually helped me since I'm doing 10X better than I was 3 weeks ago where I couldn't get out of bed all day and was crying everyday. Now I'm not crying anymore and am starting to do day to day activities again... though I still have anxiety and attacks and then get down about them. But progress has been made and that's why I'm hopefull and sticking to them.
>
> The twitches really freak me out though... anybody else on Effexor XR experience them and did they ever go away????
>
> And what did you mean that these meds can alter a person's personality permanently???? that's sooo scary??? Has anybody noticed their personality change???? I've changed but that's a result of my sudden bout of anxiety and depression not the meds.... also, my "core" self I still believe is the same.
>
> I'm really reluctant to be taking the Seroquel (anti-phycosis med.) - the DR. told me to take 25mg at night to rid me of my constant worrying thoughts... but it makes me feel like their is a void in my head, or just emptiness and in the morning I am groggy. But I'll be stopping the Seroquel this week.....
>
> Please share any experiences you've had with Seroquel and Effexor XR side effects - like the twitching....
>
> Thanks a millionn,
> G. Bear.
Posted by maxx44 on December 29, 2003, at 16:45:47
In reply to Re: Effexor XR - Some Advice Desperately Needed.HELP., posted by KimberlyDi on December 29, 2003, at 16:10:30
that's why i said 'it works, it works'---my 'personality change' posts relate to benzos/neuroleptics---never said nuttin' 'bout ADs on that deal---boy howdy
Posted by mom_cheeks on December 29, 2003, at 18:49:39
In reply to Heh Max,..............., posted by Jaynee on December 29, 2003, at 13:17:39
I couldn't agree more. I remember reading posts on all kinds of sites and reading about Effexor and its "evils" and how it was worse than death. I acutally contemplated not trying it. But, it didn't work on its own, I also took a long hard look and myself and how I see the world, and had to retrain my mind. I think what it did was give me some breathing room in what seemed to be an out of control mind and body.
The rest - long term - was up to me. I see that now.
I think alot of the issues around meds. and their neg. or lack of effects are because in addition to the meds, some people just don't see things for what they really are; or themselves for that matter.
Hey, don't get me wrong, its not like I have been the poster-child for honest self-analysis - until recently, quite the opposite.
One thing I do know, though, is that the anxiety and depression only started to disappate when I took a long hard look at myself (in combo with the drugs), and realized that this was "me", and I couldn't sit by on the sidelines waiting for it to change. That I had to actually be a part of my own recovery. The pills would NEVER have gotten me to here alone. However, at rock bottom the certainly help.
Change the core? Absolutely. The pills didn't do that though - I am still here...just without the shakes, the fear -- and the blinders.
Posted by maxx44 on December 29, 2003, at 20:58:03
In reply to Re: Heh Max,............... » Jaynee, posted by mom_cheeks on December 29, 2003, at 18:49:39
well said. and thank you. and exactly why 'talk-therapy' And meds have such greater efficacy. but neither addresses the recent findings, printed in the dec. 1 issue of 'newsweek' pretty much confirming there are no mental illnesses, rather symptoms of simple pathogen invasion of nervous systems. current meds may not whack the pathogen (germ, parasite, toxic mold, lhyme-disease post pschycosis, etc.etc.), they suppress symptoms, at a price. the key proof of this 'pathogen' explanation is the 'contageous' nature of disorders. just as flu, varying disorders appear as localized epidemics. for 3 years i've researched this former hypothesis, now fact. many years ago, european drs. were curing anorexia with cheap anti-biotics. curing a 'mental-illness' With anti-biotics? yes. search 'biological basis for mental illness' and it's other permutations. most shrinks would 'retrain', not lose their jobs to gps, as no doubt, the specific pathogen to be 'wasted' would require a specialist to pin-down. and meanwhile, 'talk-therapy'would remain the dominant method for the 'personal' issues you elegantly explained. no talk will 'instantly' seem to cure an acute manic episode---good old freudian neurosis? yes, but it takes time. it's still important, as 'thought' drives us. it's both a matter of 'trained' ways to help the client see themselves, and a curious matter of current physics, no room here for that. whole new thread stuff. my angst centers on the tens of millions having their brains 'kaboomed' to needing neuroleptics, bromocriptine, l-dopa---'till dead, perhaps. when they may be cured with anti-virals (odd that lithium carbonate can do this--kills herpes), and odd the medical industry is not concentrateing on this. i'm sitting here in a clinical state of 'treatment-resistent' 'refractory' depression, a 'life-threatening' illness that could be cured, and wondering what hemingway may have writ? savvy?
Posted by mom_cheeks on December 29, 2003, at 21:36:20
In reply to Re: Heh Max,..............., posted by maxx44 on December 29, 2003, at 20:58:03
I can see your point, and think the virals hypothesis is interesting and no doubt extrememly logical. I had a stomach ulcer for 15 years as a child, and it was cured in 2 weeks with anti-biotics "h pylori". My father, a century before me, had the same bleeding ulcers (probably a viral picked up from world travels) and had half of his stomach removed. Which leads me into the point that I feel so strongly about now.
Like so many centuries of mental illness that came before us, and will come after we are all dead, you can only work with what you have. I guess I am just glad we (we, meaning those with access and/or money for prescription drugs) have so many more options than did our gradparents.
Having dealt with the "black dogs" for so many years, I was glad beyond words to see a pin prick of light and a break in the cycle.
There is no "correct" experience, only what I have experienced, and those experiences of others around me. I am also not foolish enough to think this is over for me. I just want to have access to and be educated about all the options, instead of convincing myself -- like I did for so many years -- that I should be able to suck it up.
Another post/thread that I would find interesting would be to guestimate on the number of people with GAD and its sister disorders who were raised in a religious enviornment...not for blame, but mainly for humourous irony. :)
But as they say...thats a whole new ballgame.
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