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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by jtevers on December 16, 2003, at 16:56:07
In reply to Re: slow tritration, posted by mags on December 16, 2003, at 10:38:39
> I am not really sure because I started Atkins diet same time....but I definately don't have much of an appetite and I am at 75 mg...but most people say Atkins does that to them too...from what I hear most say you need to be at 200 mg of Topamax before the weight loss really kicks in...but then we do all differ....for me the big thing is I no longer crave the carby junk food.
maggie and friends,
please remember to be careful while remaining on atkins diet (a hi protien diet) while taking topamax ... i have heard, sensibly, that this increases the risk of developing kidney stones...
i am doing the same routine (the diet and topamax) and hope, while i am only at 50mg., that once i do reach 100-200 mg. the weight i have gained due to antipsychotic treatment (i take a moderate dose of seroquel for bipolar) will reduce.
it seems that several of us are in the same boat...now on minimal doses looking forward to the weight-loss effect seen in higher doses, but weary of the dreadful effects that may come with it... hair loss ( i've heard to take biotin, zinc and selenium at moderate doses ), tingling (i've heard to take an "anti-stress" complex-B vitamin), eye and vision trouble that sound incombatable but may reduce with slow titration as may the cognitive "numbing".
i wonder whether the success of topamax at reducing my weight may be compromised because i am forced to remain on my original med. regimen (with a moderate propensity to cause weight gain) or whether the topamax may counter this propensity and NORMALIZE my weight? has anyone tried topa. while remaining on med., or have many with weight loss success also dropped the weight-offensive medication (ie. zyprexa, lithium, depakote, etc.)?
Posted by mags on December 16, 2003, at 19:45:25
In reply to Re: atkins, topamax ... stones and wt. loss?, posted by jtevers on December 16, 2003, at 16:56:07
I would really hope that the Topo would perhaps balance out those other bad weight gaining meds lithium, depo etc....I am lucky as I am not on them right now but still have their weight they gave me!!And I have lost weight....
Thanks for info re kidney stones..I am aware of Atkins and Topo propensity for it and am very careful to drink LOTS of water.
I also have been lucky with no hair loss but my multi vitamin has biotinin it and I do take a B stress complex as well..the tingling has stopped but was bad for awhile.....for me the S/E's have been worth it for me..I am really hoping Topo is the med for me.....I hope it can be for others...
Maggie
Posted by LBcats on December 16, 2003, at 20:44:03
In reply to Re: atkins, topamax ... stones and wt. loss?, posted by jtevers on December 16, 2003, at 16:56:07
I tried both topomax and depakote together and still lost weight. However, when I got to a high dose of topomax 300 mg and 1000 mg of depakote, the cognitive side effects were really bad. Even after reducing the depakote to 500mg a day, the cognitive side effects were bad. I found that depakote just worked better for me. Topomax really screwed up my affect. I had a very flat affect and had trouble expressing my thoughts and feelings. The weight issue however was great. I just didn't have a taste for food. Mostly I wanted fruits and yogurt. Anything else sounded horrible.
LB
Posted by cyndie on December 17, 2003, at 14:24:24
In reply to Topamax Experiences?, posted by Kingfish on January 4, 2001, at 7:29:48
VOICE CHANGES???? My husband says my voice sounds "different", but he doesn't elaborate...on a different thread I asked if anyone had any experience with this, and now it's happening to me! Insights???? Thanks, Cyndie
Posted by headachequeen on December 17, 2003, at 14:32:09
In reply to Re: Topamax Experiences?, posted by cyndie on December 17, 2003, at 14:24:24
> VOICE CHANGES???? My husband says my voice sounds "different", but he doesn't elaborate...on a different thread I asked if anyone had any experience with this, and now it's happening to me! Insights???? Thanks, Cyndie
Hmmm I have had a change in my voice over the past few years... during a single fibre something or other test the neurologist performing the torture asked if that were my normal speaking voice and when I said no, she told me that was a symptom... of what she did not say... I have asked my doctor to ask her of what it is a symptom but have not yet heard...
is this Topomax-related?
Is it neurologically-related?
it would be interesting to know if only because not knowing is consuming me with curiosity...have you any idea what is causing the changes in your voice patterns? and what are the changes, for that matter?
kat
Posted by jtevers on December 17, 2003, at 14:43:10
In reply to Re: atkins, topamax ... stones and wt. loss?, posted by LBcats on December 16, 2003, at 20:44:03
> I tried both topomax and depakote together and still lost weight. However, when I got to a high dose of topomax 300 mg and 1000 mg of depakote, the cognitive side effects were really bad. Even after reducing the depakote to 500mg a day, the cognitive side effects were bad. I found that depakote just worked better for me. Topomax really screwed up my affect. I had a very flat affect and had trouble expressing my thoughts and feelings. The weight issue however was great. I just didn't have a taste for food. Mostly I wanted fruits and yogurt. Anything else sounded horrible.
> LBLB,
do i understand correctly?
do you attribute the cognitive side-effects to the topamax, the depakote, or both?
had you introduced topamax to your med. regimen for mood stabilization, seizure control, or weight issues?and do you believe the weight loss you experienced was simply due to appetite suppression (being overall less hungry) or some greater effect topamax has on the body system(s)?
do people generally gain weight while on depakote? and do you believe topa. kept you from gaining that weight? have you, since dropping topa. from your med. regimen gained any weight back?
thanx for your insight...you have been to a place where i am going and your awareness is enlightening. is there anything i can help you with?
jtevers
Posted by headachequeen on December 17, 2003, at 14:53:53
In reply to Re: Topamax-bipolar and weight loss? » headachequeen, posted by kka on December 11, 2003, at 20:06:01
> Kat,
>
> I know I have read that you take 2500 mgs of Biotin which I have now started, but what do you take 400 mgs of Vitamin E and C? How much Zinc.
> BTW - Does anyone have that link Murphia posted re the other discussion group for Topamax users? Any help would be great. I couldn't find the old post! Thanks
Vitamin C is a natural analgesic and boosts the immune system, something which, being a redhead I was born with almost none, and does so many other things, that I take huge amounts daily.... half in the morning and half in the evening as it is water soluble and if it is all taken at once half will be flushed out of the system; I have recently taken to splitting the dosage into thirds, actually and take 5000 mg every 8 hours... this is again something I give to my Chows as a matter of course but never thought to give to myself... and give to them for the same reasons I now take it after Murphia jogged my mind...
the E is a simply wonderful natural source of so much that is valuable... again it is a vitamin I give to the dogs because they need it so totally and it is so good for the skin and hair... so I now take it myself... 800 IU a day and the zinc 25mcg unless I can find the 10mcg tablets (hard to do around here) makes it possible for the body to absorb the E, without the zinc the body can't absorb the E according to the vet and that works for people as well as dogs LOL...
I had the info for the other site that Murphia mentioned and left it on the other computer when I came home... duh... shall see if someone at the course can send it to me...
kat
Posted by LBcats on December 17, 2003, at 20:53:17
In reply to Re: atkins, topamax ... stones and wt. loss? » LBcats, posted by jtevers on December 17, 2003, at 14:43:10
I attributed the cognitive side effects to the topomax because I took depakote by itself and did not experience those. I also attributed the weight loss to the topomax as the depakote by itself made me gain weight. Now without the topomax I have gained 10 of the 20 lbs I lost. Topomax just wasn't for me. I have a job that requires lots of thought and I just couldn't do it with the topomax. My whole personality changed on it. I loved the weight loss but unfortunately it just wasn't for me. It helped a little bit with the mood swings. I kept me calm actually but I guess I saw myself differently than how my friends saw me. They saw me with no affect and with not much to say. I just wasn't the "sharpest knife in the drawer".
LB
Posted by kka on December 17, 2003, at 21:51:11
In reply to headachequeen » kka, posted by headachequeen on December 17, 2003, at 14:53:53
> > Kat,
Thanks so much for the info, I really don't see any hair sheading but my hair definitely feels much thinner, I will add some things you mentioned. Also, If you are able to locate that info, post it when you can, I appreciate it. Take care!
> >
> > I know I have read that you take 2500 mgs of Biotin which I have now started, but what do you take 400 mgs of Vitamin E and C? How much Zinc.
> > BTW - Does anyone have that link Murphia posted re the other discussion group for Topamax users? Any help would be great. I couldn't find the old post! Thanks
>
>
> Vitamin C is a natural analgesic and boosts the immune system, something which, being a redhead I was born with almost none, and does so many other things, that I take huge amounts daily.... half in the morning and half in the evening as it is water soluble and if it is all taken at once half will be flushed out of the system; I have recently taken to splitting the dosage into thirds, actually and take 5000 mg every 8 hours... this is again something I give to my Chows as a matter of course but never thought to give to myself... and give to them for the same reasons I now take it after Murphia jogged my mind...
> the E is a simply wonderful natural source of so much that is valuable... again it is a vitamin I give to the dogs because they need it so totally and it is so good for the skin and hair... so I now take it myself... 800 IU a day and the zinc 25mcg unless I can find the 10mcg tablets (hard to do around here) makes it possible for the body to absorb the E, without the zinc the body can't absorb the E according to the vet and that works for people as well as dogs LOL...
> I had the info for the other site that Murphia mentioned and left it on the other computer when I came home... duh... shall see if someone at the course can send it to me...
> kat
Posted by Beck on December 17, 2003, at 22:28:44
In reply to Re: headachequeen, posted by kka on December 17, 2003, at 21:51:11
Ok, so two questions,
1. Since I only take 1/2 of 25 mg. then after 2 weeks take 25 mg. and increases by 1/2 25 mg. every two weeks, will I most likley not lose weight until I'm at a high dose?(Which I dont plan to take moere than 100mg.)
2.Do the cognitive effects occur t higher doses?
Posted by jhlsgirl on December 18, 2003, at 7:44:37
In reply to Re: headachequeen, posted by Beck on December 17, 2003, at 22:28:44
> Ok, so two questions,
> 1. Since I only take 1/2 of 25 mg. then after 2 weeks take 25 mg. and increases by 1/2 25 mg. every two weeks, will I most likley not lose weight until I'm at a high dose?(Which I dont plan to take moere than 100mg.)
> 2.Do the cognitive effects occur t higher doses?I second those questions please!
Posted by jhlsgirl on December 18, 2003, at 14:12:58
In reply to Re: Topamax Experiences?, posted by chik on November 14, 2003, at 21:03:25
ahhh today i have a nagging headache and im sleepy and i just dont feel good!! topamax heaven right??
Posted by jtevers on December 18, 2003, at 15:49:32
In reply to Re: atkins, topamax ... stones and wt. loss?, posted by LBcats on December 17, 2003, at 20:53:17
LB and to whom it concerns:
i have recently added topa to my regimen and am at only 50 mg. now...i am experiencing little to no side effects including the weight loss, but haven't expected to.
can you confirm that the weight loss may begin at 100-200mg.? and is this when i may also expect to experience "stupification?"
i wonder whether the weight loss is dose-related or continues once begun whether the dose is increased or not? is it necessary to continually increase the dose in order to see greater and greater weight loss results?
LB, i understand you personally loss 20 lbs. while taking 300mg., is this the point at which, for you, the other side effects became unbearable? do you believe if you continued at 300mg. you would have continued to lose or that it would have been necessary for you to increase your dose to see future weight loss. and, i'm sorry, i forget whether you had been introduced to topa. as a mood stabilizer or a solution to weight loss or both?
i have gained 60lbs over 3 years while being treated with an antipsychotic and a mood stabilizer for bipolar...i would love to lose at least 40 lbs on topa. treatment as this weight has not responded to exercise or diet...i understand this may mean a pretty high dose of topa. IF there is a dose-related response to its weight loss effect??? ... can anyone relate ... have any horror or success stories, i would love to hear from you.
thanx ... jtevers
Posted by headachequeen on December 18, 2003, at 15:54:02
In reply to Re: headachequeen, posted by Beck on December 17, 2003, at 22:28:44
> Ok, so two questions,
> 1. Since I only take 1/2 of 25 mg. then after 2 weeks take 25 mg. and increases by 1/2 25 mg. every two weeks, will I most likley not lose weight until I'm at a high dose?(Which I dont plan to take moere than 100mg.)
> 2.Do the cognitive effects occur t higher doses?I can only speak to my own experience with the Topomax of course, but I followed a slow titration, starting with 25 mg in the evening and working up to 200 mg as I said, then adding 25 mg in the morning and working up to 200 mg in the morning...
officially I am on 200 mornings and evenings now... but I am thinking of changing to 300 mornings and 200 evenings (slowly of course) and dumping one hundred of the tegretol...
thinking about it...
no one seems to want to take responsibility for the change and no one seems to want to be in the office until some time in january and I am TIRED of the Tegretol side effects but I know, that is another board.... sigh...
at any rate, at this point, I have NO cognitive or speech impairment from the Topomax...
there is no longer that slowness or search for words or thoughts... and no longer the slurred speech either... and that used to really bother me...the weight loss started as soon as I started the Topomax.. I know, people here are tired of hearing that I lost three pounds the first week on Topomax, but it happened and it blew me away...
I forgot that the idea was to stabilise the seisure activity (stabilise it? to stop it !!!!) and to hope the side effect would be to stop the migraines and it did that too...at the present time I am comfortable with the Topomax...
Yes, I drink loads of water... but then I have been on Tegretol for ages and been warned that I have to drink water by the gallon with it too... then along came Topomax and the same warning... then along came the Prednizone and antibiotic because of a major asthma attack and more water...
and I had to wonder, did the drink plenty of water warning mean more water or would the same plenty of water suffice??? so I drank an extra two glasses a day in case... have to keep all these medications happy...the past two days or so I have been doing some serious reading about hypomania and wondering why the psychiatrist could not have taken five minutes to explain himself as well as people here did and as well as the internet has done...
and why is it that he gets paid so much better than the psychologists??? and why does OHIP recognise psychiatry but not psychology??? enquiring minds want to know...
It gave me something to think about and kept me from hiding in the darkened room for a while, so that was a positive thing...
and while I was doing all this wondering I wondered if it might not help to change from Tegretol and its incredible side effects to the extra Topomax to which my body seems to adjust comfortably and hope that it would help my mind adjust to the depression that I am told I do not have...
oh a lot of wondering going on here...
I keep looking at the prescriptions for effexor and zyprexor which I have not taken to have filled as yet... and which I do not want to have filled if I can help it...
I was lucky once and came off them cold turkey; I was too naive and stupid to realise it was not supposed to happen that way... I may not be that lucky a second time...
so I would prefer not to start...
kat
Posted by headachequeen on December 18, 2003, at 15:59:15
In reply to Re: topa. wt. loss dose resp. ..help. » LBcats, posted by jtevers on December 18, 2003, at 15:49:32
> i have recently added topa to my regimen and am at only 50 mg. now...i am experiencing little to no side effects including the weight loss, but haven't expected to.
This is the dosage at which I experienced the side effects... it must be a redhead thing LOL
I mean we always seem to do things in reverse and most intensely...
at 400 mg I seem to have stopped the weight loss; have stayed at the same weight for about a month and seem to see no more loss in sight...
and the side effects don't seem to be any real problem any longer although I confess that I am drinking a lot of water to make sure that there are no kidney stone problems rearing their heads...
and I am still angry that neither the neurologist nor the pharmacist warned me of any side effects..(oh the neuro told me about the weight loss and the migraine side effects) but I had to learn of the side effects here and from my sister-in-law...
and it was my pharmacist who told me that zyprexa would cause weight gain... the doctors never warned me at all... of course they might have realised I would have refused to take it????
kat
Posted by mags on December 18, 2003, at 17:56:46
In reply to Re: topa. wt. loss dose resp. ..help. » LBcats, posted by jtevers on December 18, 2003, at 15:49:32
I have read somewhere, it was a medical report, (sorry can't tell you were it was)that most, by the time they get to 200 mg, lose approx 20 % of their weight. As far as stupification I understand if you titrate slowly this should not be a problem. I went slow and it has not been a problem for me. I have also lost 30 pounds BUT I have also been on the Atkins diet. I am now at 75 mg planning to get to 200 mg.
Maggie
Posted by Beck on December 18, 2003, at 22:04:13
In reply to Re: topa. wt. loss dose resp. ..help., posted by mags on December 18, 2003, at 17:56:46
> I have read somewhere, it was a medical report, (sorry can't tell you were it was)that most, by the time they get to 200 mg, lose approx 20 % of their weight. As far as stupification I understand if you titrate slowly this should not be a problem. I went slow and it has not been a problem for me. I have also lost 30 pounds BUT I have also been on the Atkins diet. I am now at 75 mg planning to get to 200 mg.
>
> MaggieBut it inno way makes you gain weight right?Because I gained a couple since starting Topamax, which is fine, but if I'm gonna gain more because of it I quit. I can't afford to lose weight, I can afford to gain, but if I gain more than 5 pounds I get so incredibley depressed most antidepressents wont help. I really wish this medicine didnt effect weight eitherway.
Posted by Sooshi on December 18, 2003, at 23:12:02
In reply to Re: headachequeen, posted by Beck on December 17, 2003, at 22:28:44
>Ok, so two questions,
1. Since I only take 1/2 of 25 mg. then after 2 weeks take 25 mg. and increases by 1/2 25 mg. every two weeks, will I most likley not lose weight until I'm at a high dose?(Which I dont plan to take moere than 100mg.)
2.Do the cognitive effects occur t higher doses?<Ok, maybe I can help answer these questions.
1. I'm not sure it matters what dosage you are on to begin experiencing weight loss with Topamax, because everybody metabolizes medications so differently...BUT, having said that, it does seem that, on average, around 100-200mg is where most seem to start experiencing some weight loss. I myself began losing at around 75-100mg. I rapidly lost 7lbs the first two weeks after passing the 75mg mark, and an additional 7lbs since reaching 200mgs. I just simply lost my appetite and desire for food, and felt more satiated a lot quicker when eating, and this didn't begin until around 75mg. Might be more or less for others. However, I have reached a plateau, and haven't lost any more weight in the last week or so, but haven't gained any either.
2. The cognitive effects didn't start for me until my dosage got, again, around 100mgs. The biggest problem I had was recalling the simplest of names, tasks, etc. I would also just stop in the middle of a sentence and completely forget what point I was trying to make...and this would happen frequently, not just occasionally. I have now been on 200mgs for over 2 weeks, and these cognitive problems are starting to clear up, and are not bothering me as much.
Well, I hope this has helped a little. Just my 2cents.
Posted by beck on December 18, 2003, at 23:26:36
In reply to Re: Two Questions » Beck, posted by Sooshi on December 18, 2003, at 23:12:02
> >Ok, so two questions,
> 1. Since I only take 1/2 of 25 mg. then after 2 weeks take 25 mg. and increases by 1/2 25 mg. every two weeks, will I most likley not lose weight until I'm at a high dose?(Which I dont plan to take moere than 100mg.)
> 2.Do the cognitive effects occur t higher doses?<
>
>
>
> Ok, maybe I can help answer these questions.
>
> 1. I'm not sure it matters what dosage you are on to begin experiencing weight loss with Topamax, because everybody metabolizes medications so differently...BUT, having said that, it does seem that, on average, around 100-200mg is where most seem to start experiencing some weight loss. I myself began losing at around 75-100mg. I rapidly lost 7lbs the first two weeks after passing the 75mg mark, and an additional 7lbs since reaching 200mgs. I just simply lost my appetite and desire for food, and felt more satiated a lot quicker when eating, and this didn't begin until around 75mg. Might be more or less for others. However, I have reached a plateau, and haven't lost any more weight in the last week or so, but haven't gained any either.
>
> 2. The cognitive effects didn't start for me until my dosage got, again, around 100mgs. The biggest problem I had was recalling the simplest of names, tasks, etc. I would also just stop in the middle of a sentence and completely forget what point I was trying to make...and this would happen frequently, not just occasionally. I have now been on 200mgs for over 2 weeks, and these cognitive problems are starting to clear up, and are not bothering me as much.
>
> Well, I hope this has helped a little. Just my 2cents.It does, thanks!
Posted by mags on December 19, 2003, at 12:20:11
In reply to Re: topa. wt. loss dose resp. ..help., posted by Beck on December 18, 2003, at 22:04:13
Beck, I haven't read or heard anywhere that anyone gains on this med.
Maggie
Posted by headachequeen on December 19, 2003, at 13:09:54
In reply to Re: topa. wt. loss dose resp. ..help., posted by mags on December 19, 2003, at 12:20:11
> Beck, I haven't read or heard anywhere that anyone gains on this med.
>
> Maggienor have I, in fact, when my neurologist suggested Topomax as an antiseizure med because it had the side effect of dealing with migraines he mentioned that it was known to cause weight loss....
kat
Posted by Karen_kay on December 19, 2003, at 16:39:23
In reply to Re: Two Questions » Beck, posted by Sooshi on December 18, 2003, at 23:12:02
I had similar experiences. Except my weight loss didn't start until I hit the 200 mg mark. And the cognitive problems for me lasted about 2 months. I even had problems confusing the letter "I" with the letter "E". My Pdoc continued to deny that Topamax had anything to do with it. I continued to explain that "I didn't fall down and hit my head, so the only logical explanation to me is Topamax". I've been on 300 mgs,and I began Topamax late in the summer, early fall, and I have lost over 20 lbs. And it has been continuous. But, it could just be because I'm no longer on Lithium and no longer depressed. The side effects have diminished almost completely! I still get heartburn occassionally, but that is about it. No more cognition problems. I'm not sure if you'll lose weight at 100 mgs, everyone is different. But, your chance of side effects is lower at a lower dosage.
Posted by jtevers on December 22, 2003, at 20:22:31
In reply to headachequeen » jtevers, posted by headachequeen on December 18, 2003, at 15:59:15
> at 400 mg I seem to have stopped the weight loss; have stayed at the same weight for about a month and seem to see no more loss in sight...
headachequeen,
i wondered, because it seems to be different for all, at what dose your weight loss began?
and whether you are (and forgive me if i am being redundant) still taking the offending med., i believe it's zyprexa you are on?
i wondered whether you consider increasing the dose of topamax to see whether your weight loss would increase, or are you content? is it bearable (the side effects of the topamax)?
how much weight have you lost by the time you reached 400 mg.?
thank you for your help.
jtevers
Posted by jtevers on December 22, 2003, at 20:38:18
In reply to Re: topa. wt. loss dose resp. ..help., posted by mags on December 18, 2003, at 17:56:46
> I have read somewhere, it was a medical report, (sorry can't tell you were it was)that most, by the time they get to 200 mg, lose approx 20 % of their weight. As far as stupification I understand if you titrate slowly this should not be a problem. I went slow and it has not been a problem for me. I have also lost 30 pounds BUT I have also been on the Atkins diet. I am now at 75 mg planning to get to 200 mg.
>
> MaggieMaggie,
forgive me maggie and all i don't mean to be a script hound and realize i am currently posting to several people on the same thread ... i know no other way of keeping it public and private, general and concise...
maggie, you and i seem to be in the same boat and can learn a thing or two from our predecessors. i too have just reached 75mg. and while i haven't even lost my appetite, let alone a pound or two, i recently experienced "brain freeze" that went away slowly but hasn't returned... the phone rang and i could not figure out what to do next ... i had to work myself through the motions ... i could laugh about it now.
i, too had lost 30 lbs early this summer on atkins and remain on the diet to this day... i, unlike you, have quite a way to go.
Posted by jtevers on December 22, 2003, at 20:49:39
In reply to Re: Two Questions..Beck, posted by Karen_kay on December 19, 2003, at 16:39:23
karen_kay,
am i correct in assuming, since you stated you started topamax in the late summer that you had cognitive problems despite having titrated slowly?
i mean to say,did you run into these harrowing side effects regularly even though you stepped-up the topamax slowly and over many months?can i also assume you will maintain your present dose of 300 mg. and that it is bearable? any interest in increasing the dose to lose any more weight?
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