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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 54 to 78 of 153. Go back in thread:
Posted by Sebastian on September 19, 2003, at 19:12:47
In reply to Re: Sebastian ! Abilify, posted by cybercafe on September 19, 2003, at 12:33:05
Have you timed your sleep? Your down to 6 hours a night? Is that since 15 mgs? Do you still take Celexa during this? 5mgs might do the trick now to get away from the sleep? Wouldn't that be a nice supply! I did notice you were staying up later and later every night, sort of how I did on 15. when I had gotten abilified out my doc suggested taking the zyprexa with it; helps with sleep.
Sebastian
P.S. Have you not tried wellbutrin??It has less negative effects!.
Posted by cybercafe on September 20, 2003, at 1:44:02
In reply to Re: Sebastian ! Abilify » cybercafe, posted by Sebastian on September 19, 2003, at 19:12:47
> Have you timed your sleep? Your down to 6 hours a night? Is that since 15 mgs? Do you still take
nope i have only taken 7.5 mg a day, and i havn't even given that time to build up in my body to steady-state bloodlevels..
i took only 3.75 mg today, and i'll see if i can stick with it.. if i start to sleep too much, i'll take 5.125 mg
>Celexa during this? 5mgs might do the trick now to get away from the sleep? Wouldn't that be a
yeah i still take the celexa... i wonder if i can reduce to 40 mg and keep the AD effect but lose the side effects (libido! apathy!)
>nice supply! I did notice you were staying up later and later every night, sort of how I did on 15. when I had gotten abilified out my doc suggested taking the zyprexa with it; helps with sleep.yeah i wonder how long it takes to get used to sleeping on abilify of course i am also taking it with a stimulant ... ritalin... so who knows which is to blame
> P.S. Have you not tried wellbutrin??It has less negative effects!.
no dude.... remember i am already on 4 drugs! i'm looking to switch rather than add :)
Posted by Sebastian on September 20, 2003, at 11:04:47
In reply to Re: Sebastian ! Abilify, posted by cybercafe on September 20, 2003, at 1:44:02
Do you pay a co-pay on meds in Canada?
If you took 7.5 now for a week you are almost at steady state with 30mgs in your system, true would be 36. If you go down to 3.75, steady will be 18mgs. If you take 5mgs, steady will be 24 mgs.... So to stay at roughly the same in your system now you would take 5mgs. But I'm guessing 3.75 is enough. Strong medicine? 3 day half life. Have you taken any zyprexa lately?
Sebastian
Posted by cybercafe on September 21, 2003, at 2:11:17
In reply to Re: Sebastian ! Abilify » cybercafe, posted by Sebastian on September 20, 2003, at 11:04:47
> Do you pay a co-pay on meds in Canada?
yeah a deductible and $2 co pay...
but for abilify i have to drive to the states (abilify is not available in canada)
> If you took 7.5 now for a week you are almost at steady state with 30mgs in your system, true would be 36. If you go down to 3.75, steady will bei'm curious how you calculate steady state (i tried using a sum of exponential decay converging series, ug)
>18mgs. If you take 5mgs, steady will be 24 mgs.... So to stay at roughly the same in your system now you would take 5mgs. But I'm guessing
yeah you're probably right.... but i think i will go for the lowest dose that will energize me enough ... (how much do you have to take to notice an increase in libido???? or to get your emotions back????)
>3.75 is enough. Strong medicine? 3 day half life. Have you taken any zyprexa lately?
havn't taken zyprexa in a week or two
abilify seems to be a winner.............. but i definately understand why people would want to avoid the feel-tired-but-can't-sleep feeling, yuck!
Posted by Sebastian on September 21, 2003, at 10:07:32
In reply to Re: Sebastian ! Abilify, posted by cybercafe on September 21, 2003, at 2:11:17
How big a deductible? On pills?
I used Excel with 7.5=15ek3,>,1 day=.5^(1/3)
So : TodaysDose + (YesterdaysAnswer * (.5^(1/3))) = Remaining in system15 for a week and things were looking 'good'. Can't say I had tested the libido. I noticed emotions here also. I don't have a lot of experience with the lower doses.
I wonder why Abilify's smalest dose is 10mg? Why don't they have a 3 or a 5 mg dose.
Sebastian
Posted by cybercafe on September 22, 2003, at 1:00:51
In reply to Re: Sebastian ! Abilify » cybercafe, posted by Sebastian on September 21, 2003, at 10:07:32
> How big a deductible? On pills?
like $600 every 3 months
> I used Excel with 7.5=15ek3,>,1 day=.5^(1/3)
> So : TodaysDose + (YesterdaysAnswer * (.5^(1/3))) = Remaining in systemyep!
> 15 for a week and things were looking 'good'. Can't say I had tested the libido. I noticed emotions here also. I don't have a lot of experience with the lower doses.i don't find myself thinking about sex at all, even though i have about 7 numbers in my pocket... Ugg! ... .but emotions are what really bug me ... did you feel that SSRI apathy when you were on Celexa + Zyprexa ..... i guess wellbutrin helps with that
>
> I wonder why Abilify's smalest dose is 10mg? Why don't they have a 3 or a 5 mg dose.i guess bipolar is more of an offlabel use right now
Posted by Sebastian on September 22, 2003, at 12:37:28
In reply to Re: Sebastian ! Abilify, posted by cybercafe on September 22, 2003, at 1:00:51
I think Wellbutrin helps with apathy, I think the abilify does too. Corect me on def of apathy; dull emotions? Zyprexa does this=apathy.
I had that problem when I was on Zyprexa, no sexual interest or loss of libido, had interestees.
I think other illnesses might posibly benifit from a smallar dose of abilify. Sort of how zyprexa has a 2.5mg, which would be the equivelent of 3mg abilify??? I don't understand why abilify starts so high up in doses, 10mg, when 30 is the max?!
Sebastian
Posted by cybercafe on September 22, 2003, at 17:18:09
In reply to Re: Sebastian ! Abilify » cybercafe, posted by Sebastian on September 22, 2003, at 12:37:28
> I think Wellbutrin helps with apathy, I think the abilify does too. Corect me on def of apathy; dull emotions? Zyprexa does this=apathy.
good... maybe my doc will consider going to 5 meds ... ug...
yes having dull emotions really sucks... don't reacting to interesting/funny/exciting things in the environment
> I had that problem when I was on Zyprexa, no sexual interest or loss of libido, had interestees.yep.... i was disappointed to get off zyprexa nad find my interests were still gone :(
> I think other illnesses might posibly benifit from a smallar dose of abilify. Sort of howi'm sure they would.... i mean i get
a) stable mood (bipolar)
b) increased energy and decreased need for sleep
c) possible increased motivationand no side effects (at 3.75mg)
>zyprexa has a 2.5mg, which would be the equivelent of 3mg abilify??? I don't understand why abilify
starts so high up in doses, 10mg, when 30 is the max?!cuz they want to make sure people take higher dosages, report success with the drug, and it gets a good rep .... then once it gets a good rep, that it actually WORKS, then they can work on having it WORK AND reduce side effects! just a guess
Posted by Lazarus on September 22, 2003, at 18:46:11
In reply to Re: Sebastian ! Abilify, posted by cybercafe on September 22, 2003, at 17:18:09
Hey guy,
I take Abilify and Zyprexa. I was taking 5 mg every other day but now I take 2.5 mg every day. At 2.5 mg I feel more confident, less anxious and more focused than without it. Also, there is no "restlessness" at this low dose. The important thing with Abilify is that you have to learn how to take it over a period of time and to fine-tune the dosage. Once you do that it is a great drug.
Lazarus
Posted by Sebastian on September 22, 2003, at 20:02:59
In reply to Re: Sebastian ! Abilify, posted by cybercafe on September 22, 2003, at 17:18:09
I agree with Lazarius. If you take the low dose Abilify for a while, your body will adjust. giving all those things you want: increased sex drive, motivation, .
That wellbutrin seems to work since I have reduced my zyprexa to 5mgs and continued with 200WB I react a lot more to situation people things what ever. Maybe even a little too much now that I think about it. But my problem is too much emotion.
Posted by cybercafe on September 23, 2003, at 0:54:18
In reply to Re: Sebastian ! Abilify, posted by Sebastian on September 22, 2003, at 20:02:59
> I agree with Lazarius. If you take the low dose Abilify for a while, your body will adjust. giving all those things you want: increased sex drive, motivation, .
you mean my body will adjust and i'll get those benefits without a dose increase or with a dose increase?
> That wellbutrin seems to work since I have reduced my zyprexa to 5mgs and continued with 200WB I react a lot more to situation people things what ever. Maybe even a little too much now that I think about it. But my problem is too much emotion.damn... i really want to take wellbutrin now.. it's sounds like a wonderful drug....
Posted by cybercafe on September 23, 2003, at 0:55:04
In reply to Re: Sebastian ! Abilify, posted by Lazarus on September 22, 2003, at 18:46:11
> Hey guy,
>
> I take Abilify and Zyprexa. I was taking 5 mg every other day but now I take 2.5 mg every day. At 2.5 mg I feel more confident, less anxious and more focused than without it. Also, there is no "restlessness" at this low dose. The important thing with Abilify is that you have to learn how to take it over a period of time and to fine-tune the dosage. Once you do that it is a great drug.
>
> Lazarus
>
>Amen.
How much zyprexa do you take?
Posted by Sebastian on September 23, 2003, at 11:46:04
In reply to Re: Sebastian ! Abilify, posted by cybercafe on September 23, 2003, at 0:54:18
I hope so man! It might be best to stay with the low dose, just in case.
Seb
Posted by cybercafe on September 23, 2003, at 13:17:42
In reply to Re: Sebastian ! Abilify » cybercafe, posted by Sebastian on September 23, 2003, at 11:46:04
> I hope so man! It might be best to stay with the low dose, just in case.
>
> Sebyeah the insomnia is kind of weird. when you feel stimulated and tired. but i think a sleeping pill and an extra hour of sleep gets rid of this.
funny most people find most trouble falling asleep, i find i have most trouble waking up early. though i do actually feel REALLY MOTIVATED to get things done right at bed time
dude i feel bad for you.... i don't know how you tolerated such a huge dose. i'd have thought your doc would have given you something to help like a benzo or anticholinergic or something
Posted by Lazarus on September 23, 2003, at 15:11:34
In reply to Re: Sebastian ! Abilify, posted by cybercafe on September 23, 2003, at 0:55:04
I take 2.5 mg Abilify daily. I am also taking Zyprexa daily. I was taking 2.5 mg of Zyprexa but my psychiatrist just recently told me to cut the dosage in half, to 1.25 mg. I am having trouble with the lower dose, however. I think I've become dependent on it.
Posted by Sebastian on September 23, 2003, at 18:59:15
In reply to Re: Sebastian ! Abilify, posted by cybercafe on September 23, 2003, at 13:17:42
Your talking about the 15mg of abilify? Ya! He wanted me to switch suddenly, stop zyprexa 10 and take 15 abilify? No taking anymore zyprexa; his exact words when he gave me the abilify samples. He had already said if the abilify dosen't work we can always go back to the zyprexa. So! 2 weeks and the abilify didn't work! Switch, right!
Oh! and he also didn't tell when to take the abilify. so? I took it at the same time as zyprexa. Ha! No wonder I couldn't sleep!
That stuff takes a long time to kick in though, maybe thats why I woke up in the night early and stuff.
I'm not sure though if I ever took it in the morning? Maybe once? I think thats when I had horrible day at school.
Anyways, I don't need APs anymore(realy). So first I have to get off the zyprexa?
Seb
Posted by Sebastian on September 23, 2003, at 19:02:06
In reply to Re: Sebastian ! Abilify, posted by Lazarus on September 23, 2003, at 15:11:34
I know the feeling! many unscessfull attemps. Now I want to try very gradual decreases over 2 years. If that does not work, I'm doomed.
Seb
Posted by Lazarus on September 23, 2003, at 20:06:27
In reply to Re: Sebastian ! Abilify » Lazarus, posted by Sebastian on September 23, 2003, at 19:02:06
Seb, you're not doomed. Zyprexa is a relatively safe med, don't worry.
That said, I know how hard it is to get off it. 2.5 mg is good, 5 mg is better. Sometimes I'm tempted to take 10 mg. Now my doc says to take one half of a 2.5 (1.25 mg) and I can't sleep! I had to add some Seroquel to it last night in order to fall asleep.
My guess is that over time the brain re-adjusts itself to the new dosage and returns to normal functioning.
By the way, how many mg's of Zyprexa are you now taking?
Lazarus
Posted by Sebastian on September 23, 2003, at 22:24:01
In reply to Re: Sebastian ! Abilify, posted by Lazarus on September 23, 2003, at 20:06:27
I take 5mgs now, for about a month now. I was on 10mgs for most of the last 5 years. I had a failed attempt last year, going from 5mgs to 0mgs. I lasted 8 days and slowly was developing a very hard time eating solid foods. By the 8th day I could drink milk and soda, and tried forcing some fries down my throught but they would not go down. My doc told me to take a 2.5mg zyprexa, within minutes I could eat again. This and the panic attacks that also were getting very troublesome. Eventualy I pleaded with my doc to put me back up to 10mgs of Zyprexa, which I religiously took till 2 months ago, when I started the decrease. I got down to 3.75 mgs and got a little panicy, so 5 mgs.
One thing I've noticed when I take less zyprexa, my thinking changes. I get forgetfull. But at the same time more interested in people.
Sebastian
Posted by Sebastian on September 23, 2003, at 22:25:43
In reply to Re: Sebastian ! Abilify, posted by cybercafe on September 23, 2003, at 13:17:42
Cyber,
$600 deductible on Canadian medications?
Seb
Posted by cybercafe on September 24, 2003, at 13:09:44
In reply to Re: Sebastian ! Abilify » cybercafe, posted by Sebastian on September 23, 2003, at 22:25:43
> Cyber,
>
> $600 deductible on Canadian medications?
>
> Seb
every 3 months... for my case, anywaysebastian man... i find right after i wake up (before i take my ritalin/ativan/abilify) i feel the WORST... like WIRED and TIRED... but the rest of the time i feel fine ....
i don't know how people manage to take 15 mg starting dose.... if i were you i would have continued to take the zyprexa, then slowly add 4 -> 8 -> 10 mg ....
do they say the side effects disappear after a month?? hmmmm
Posted by cybercafe on September 24, 2003, at 13:13:13
In reply to Re: Sebastian ! Abilify » cybercafe, posted by Sebastian on September 23, 2003, at 18:59:15
> Your talking about the 15mg of abilify? Ya! He wanted me to switch suddenly, stop zyprexa 10 and take 15 abilify? No taking anymore zyprexa; his exact words when he gave me the abilify samples. He had already said if the abilify dosen't work we can always go back to the zyprexa. So! 2 weeks and the abilify didn't work! Switch, right!
hmmmm.. why not try zyprexa AND abilify!
> Oh! and he also didn't tell when to take the abilify. so? I took it at the same time as zyprexa. Ha! No wonder I couldn't sleep!that's crazy dude... and you were workingat the time???
> That stuff takes a long time to kick in though, maybe thats why I woke up in the night early and stuff.
>
> I'm not sure though if I ever took it in the morning? Maybe once? I think thats when I had horrible day at school.oh i thought you were working ?
>
> Anyways, I don't need APs anymore(realy). So first I have to get off the zyprexa?probably safer just to stay on a low dose zyprexa... like 2.5 mg doesn't have any side effects does it? but it gives just that extra bit of stability! sounds like a good deal
Posted by Lazarus on September 24, 2003, at 17:12:54
In reply to Re: Sebastian ! Abilify » Lazarus, posted by Sebastian on September 23, 2003, at 22:24:01
> I take 5mgs now, for about a month now. I was on 10mgs for most of the last 5 years. I had a failed attempt last year, going from 5mgs to 0mgs. I lasted 8 days and slowly was developing a very hard time eating solid foods. By the 8th day I could drink milk and soda, and tried forcing some fries down my throught but they would not go down. My doc told me to take a 2.5mg zyprexa, within minutes I could eat again. This and the panic attacks that also were getting very troublesome. Eventualy I pleaded with my doc to put me back up to 10mgs of Zyprexa, which I religiously took till 2 months ago, when I started the decrease. I got down to 3.75 mgs and got a little panicy, so 5 mgs.
>
> One thing I've noticed when I take less zyprexa, my thinking changes. I get forgetfull. But at the same time more interested in people.
>
> SebastianThank you for the history. I understand the dependence you're caught up in.
If you want to lower your dose of Zyprexa I would suggest taking 5 mg on odd days and 3.75 mg on even days. Do that until you are absolutely comfortable. Then try taking 3.75 mg every day. Don't take less until you are comfortable at that level. And so on and so forth.
My guess is that you had trouble going from 5 mg to 0 mg because you did so too quickly. Go slower this time.
Again, I understand you. Zyprexa makes me feel so good that when I look at my bottle of 2.5's I want to take 5 mgs or more, but don't. I suspect that your mind is playing the same games with you.
Let me know how your progress is going.
Lazarus
Posted by Sebastian on September 24, 2003, at 18:24:53
In reply to Re: Sebastian ! Abilify, posted by cybercafe on September 24, 2003, at 13:09:44
I realy don't know anymore about abilify than you now, sorry.
That was my plan. Start low on one, decrease on the other. My doc didn't think so.
During the day do you feel sort of spacy and dizzy like you can't function or going to pass out? Thats what I was like for the hole morning on abilify and zyprexa, the one day I tried it that way, in school. It was horible, I was acting so stupid.
Ya, mornings suck, the day after coffee and wellbutrin are good. Except when I don't drink water.
Wired and tired! Sort of like after you take some drugs or some thing and wake up the next morning. Or a hang-over, but different.
Sebastian
Posted by Sebastian on September 24, 2003, at 18:39:30
In reply to Re: Sebastian ! Abilify, posted by cybercafe on September 24, 2003, at 13:13:13
Luckly! I was on vacation. I switched befor it was over too.
I've actualy tried the mix, didn't like it, felt high on drugs like acid or something in the morning. That was a wasted day at school.
I graduated 2 months ago, AAS in electronics engineering. Full time working as a air quality test equipment service technician. Free medical. No deductible on prescriptions. I never heard of $600 deductible on meds in Canada, and every 3 months? You would never pay down the deductible?
Ya, low dose zyprexa is about my speed. I'm on 5 now. My plan is to stay on 5 for about a years, then go to 2.5 for anouther year. And then as little as posible. Maybe 1.25 every now and again. Think it will work?---No side-effects just about on the 5 mg. In 1 year I will probably notice some side-effects, and decrease.
Sebastian
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