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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 32. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by suzie on September 16, 2003, at 18:51:59
I need a new anti-depressant. I was on zoloft but it made my hair fall out and I had serious sexual side effects. I was also on Paxil, serzone, celexa, lexapro& wellbutrin. They all had serious sexual side effects. Does anyone know of a antideppressant that I could try?
Posted by galkeepinon on September 16, 2003, at 19:20:43
In reply to Any meds that doesn't have sexual side effects, posted by suzie on September 16, 2003, at 18:51:59
Hi suzie, have you tried Effexor or Prozac?
I have been on both and especially the Prozac~I had no sexual side effects. The Effexor, I had a little, it was tough!!!!! If you know what I mean:(
Have you tried these yet?
Good luck!:-)
> I need a new anti-depressant. I was on zoloft but it made my hair fall out and I had serious sexual side effects. I was also on Paxil, serzone, celexa, lexapro& wellbutrin. They all had serious sexual side effects. Does anyone know of a antideppressant that I could try?
Posted by JonW on September 16, 2003, at 22:14:39
In reply to Any meds that doesn't have sexual side effects, posted by suzie on September 16, 2003, at 18:51:59
Yes, I'm the one person in the world who's responded to moclobemide -- they make it just for me :) I have to say it's great! If anything, it will improve things in that department.
Jon :)
Posted by Ed O`Flaherty on September 17, 2003, at 5:59:34
In reply to Any meds that doesn't have sexual side effects, posted by suzie on September 16, 2003, at 18:51:59
Consider Mirtazapine or even the old tricyclics.Weight gain may be a problem and the tricyclics are dangerous in overdose.
Posted by cybercafe on September 17, 2003, at 11:20:55
In reply to Re: Any meds that doesn't have sexual side effects, posted by Ed O`Flaherty on September 17, 2003, at 5:59:34
Parnate, the side effect is, increased libido!
Posted by suzie on September 17, 2003, at 19:28:41
In reply to Re: Any meds that doesn't have sexual side effects » suzie, posted by galkeepinon on September 16, 2003, at 19:20:43
Effexor didn't work. And the withdrawal symptoms were really severe. I have never tried prozac. Thats one of meds my doctor was thinking of trying next.
Posted by jaynee on September 17, 2003, at 21:04:32
In reply to Moclobemide! » suzie, posted by JonW on September 16, 2003, at 22:14:39
Me too Jon, manerix seems to be working very well for me, more energy, more sexual, etc, etc.
Posted by HenryO on September 18, 2003, at 5:43:10
In reply to Any meds that doesn't have sexual side effects, posted by suzie on September 16, 2003, at 18:51:59
Lamictal hasn't hurt my libido like everything else did. It's nice to be able to function and to be interested in sex again.
Posted by craig allen on September 18, 2003, at 21:44:33
In reply to Any meds that doesn't have sexual side effects, posted by suzie on September 16, 2003, at 18:51:59
seligiline (sp?), which goes by eldepryl will offset any sexual side effects you're having and then some. my doctor is okay with me using it as needed for that very purpose. it works.
Posted by cubbybear on September 18, 2003, at 22:29:10
In reply to Re: Any meds that doesn't have sexual side effects » suzie, posted by craig allen on September 18, 2003, at 21:44:33
I agree about MAOI Parnate. Never had problems with libido and performance in the 20 years I've been taking it. In fact, I'm just as sex-crazed as I was back then.
Posted by Nohope on September 19, 2003, at 3:08:01
In reply to Parnate, posted by cybercafe on September 17, 2003, at 11:20:55
Hi Cybercafe.
When I do a google search for Parnate + libido, there are thousands of matches - about the only ones claiming 'non-negative' sexual effects are from this board - mostly your posts actually.
I am finding it difficult to reconcile your experience with what I read elsewhere. Are you able to provide evidence other than your personal experience that Parnate does not negatively impact on sexual function? (I am trying not to get my hopes up about yet *another* medication that has 'no' negative sexual side-effects...that is, until you try it...)
Thanks
Posted by JonW on September 19, 2003, at 11:10:22
In reply to Re: Parnate » cybercafe, posted by Nohope on September 19, 2003, at 3:08:01
> I am finding it difficult to reconcile your experience with what I read elsewhere. Are you able to provide evidence other than your personal experience that Parnate does not negatively impact on sexual function? (I am trying not to get my hopes up about yet *another* medication that has 'no' negative sexual side-effects...that is, until you try it...)
I can say, for me, Parnate increased libido, but it also made me impotent along with the usual anorgasmia... a most frustrating complication. Not quite as bad as Nardil for sexual side-effects, but pretty close.... impotence was actually worse....
Moclobemide didn't cause me any of these problems. But I do concede, if you're looking for a cure in a single drug, moclobemide doesn't seem to work for a lot of people. It works for jaynee and I, though! :) I am curious if people who didn't do well on this drug stayed on it long enough or at a high enough dose. The greatest effect for me wasn't felt until beyond 8 weeks. I recently read an old abstract from 1992 noting significant improvement between weeks 8 and 16 for social phobia, and my experience was the same for depression. Actually, it's more effective for my depression than SP (it definitely helps, though, comparable to the SSRIs), but I've never found *any* drug that removes my SP (That's what CBT is for!). There is plenty of information out there confirming moclobemide's lack of side-effects, particularly the sexual side-effects. Of course, it also seems to be somewhat less potent than other drugs. If you haven't tried it, I think it's worth a shot. If it doesn't work, there's no withdrawal for most people and you can start a new drug as soon as 24 hours after you stop it. Compare that with the withdrawal of the classic MAOIs and the 2 week washout period.
My symptoms are atypical depression/social anxiety disorder/ADD. All of these are very severe. I am also very irritable and agitated at times. It has been suggested by some that I may be bipolar (isn't everyone these days?) or have temporal lobe epilepsy. I've been hospitalized twice. Moclobemide + L-Theanine + CBT has been extremely effective for all of my symptoms. It takes a long time to completely undo a lifelong illness, but for the first time I feel well on my way. I'm actually glad to be me... if that makes any sense.
Good Luck,
Jon :)
Posted by JonW on September 19, 2003, at 11:13:33
In reply to Re: Moclobemide!, posted by jaynee on September 17, 2003, at 21:04:32
> Me too Jon, manerix seems to be working very well for me, more energy, more sexual, etc, etc.
YAY!!!!! :)
Jon :)
Posted by cybercafe on September 19, 2003, at 12:25:40
In reply to Re: Parnate » cybercafe, posted by Nohope on September 19, 2003, at 3:08:01
> When I do a google search for Parnate + libido, there are thousands of matches - about the only ones claiming 'non-negative' sexual effects are from this board - mostly your posts actually.
okay if you find that most articles state that parnate has a NEGATIVE effect on libido i would be very surprised..... take a look for myself.... and some professing how wonderful the drug is :) :)
i first realized it was not only me when i asked jessica r .. and she said yes, it's very noticeable.... and then i asked others and they also seemed to have a similiar experience...
and my doc said he hears the same things from his patients of coruse (he has lots on parnate)naturally i'd suggest you find your own parnate users and ask them flat out... hey...what effect does it have on libido? and let me know what you find!
> I am finding it difficult to reconcile your experience with what I read elsewhere. Are you able to provide evidence other than your personal experience that Parnate does not negatively impact on sexual function? (I am trying not to get myi put a lot of faith in anecdotal reports -- and would not be where i am today without them. however, because of the nature (shame) of mental health, i am not able to give you references as to who experienced what BUT i can say that if you take the time to ASK PEOPLE they will in the majority of cases say, yes it's wonderful.... dude if there is only a chance you could feel like i felt, (antidepressant, energy, weight loss, libido) it is WORTH your effort to investigate this great med!
hopes up about yet *another* medication that has 'no' negative sexual side-effects...that is, until you try it...)
>
> Thanks
>
Posted by cybercafe on September 19, 2003, at 12:27:41
In reply to Re: Parnate, posted by JonW on September 19, 2003, at 11:10:22
> > I am finding it difficult to reconcile your experience with what I read elsewhere. Are you able to provide evidence other than your personal experience that Parnate does not negatively impact on sexual function? (I am trying not to get my hopes up about yet *another* medication that has 'no' negative sexual side-effects...that is, until you try it...)
>
> I can say, for me, Parnate increased libido, but it also made me impotent along with the usual anorgasmia... a most frustrating complication. Not quite as bad as Nardil for sexual side-effects, but pretty close.... impotence was actually worse....
>
> Moclobemide didn't cause me any of these problems. But I do concede, if you're looking for a cure in a single drug, moclobemide doesn't seem to work for a lot of people. It works for jaynee and I, though! :) I am curious if people who didn't do well on this drug stayed on it long enough or at a high enough dose. The greatest effect for me wasn't felt until beyond 8 weeks. I recently read an old abstract from 1992 noting significant improvement between weeks 8 and 16 for social phobia, and my experience was the same for depression. Actually, it's more effective for my depression than SP (it definitely helps, though, comparable to the SSRIs), but I've never found *any* drug that removes my SP (That's what CBT is for!). There is plenty of information out there confirming moclobemide's lack of side-effects, particularly the sexual side-effects. Of course, it also seems to be somewhat less potent than other drugs. If you haven't tried it, I think it's worth a shot. If it doesn't work, there's no withdrawal for most people and you can start a new drug as soon as 24 hours after you stop it. Compare that with the withdrawal of the classic MAOIs and the 2 week washout period.
>
> My symptoms are atypical depression/social anxiety disorder/ADD. All of these are very severe. I am also very irritable and agitated at times. It has been suggested by some that I may be bipolar (isn't everyone these days?) or have temporal lobe epilepsy. I've been hospitalized twice. Moclobemide + L-Theanine + CBT has been extremely effective for all of my symptoms. It takes a long time to completely undo a lifelong illness, but for the first time I feel well on my way. I'm actually glad to be me... if that makes any sense.jon, long time no see
hey dude, what do you take for ADD?
can you combine a stim with moclobemide?
>
> Good Luck,
> Jon :)
Posted by JonW on September 19, 2003, at 15:49:52
In reply to Re: Parnate, posted by cybercafe on September 19, 2003, at 12:27:41
> jon, long time no see
>
> hey dude, what do you take for ADD?Actually, and to my surprise, the moclobemide has addressed these problems. Specifically, with reading, concentration, impulsivity, and being more orderly. I believe the L-Theanine makes reading easier as well. I may not have true ADD, but identify with many of the symptoms. I describe my "illness" in terms of symptoms because I don't know what I really do or don't have. I mean, without a doubt I am the poster child for severe generalized SAD, but outside of that it's less clear. With my depression, I had one pdoc tell me that without a doubt I am bipolar, one tell me maybe, another tell me I am not, and another just say I have a reactive mood. I've also been told I may have temporal lobe epilepsy... And I have decided to get a SPECT scan, which I had done today. I figure the more information the better. Although, even if it does come back positive, I'm not sure I want to do anything about it. I'm doing well with meds + therapy as it is. Anyway, about ADD, I have sinced searched PubMed and have come across several abstracts suggesting moclobemide can be helpful for people with ADD.
> can you combine a stim with moclobemide?
I believe its contra-indicated, but I'm sure an experienced pdoc would be willing to try this. I've been on nootropics like piracetam and aniracetam without a problem. Of course, that's not the same as adderall, dexedrine, etc... I know that Dr. Goldberg, who posts here from time to time, has combined moclobemide with stims without any problems.
Jon
Posted by jaynee on September 19, 2003, at 21:13:55
In reply to Re: Parnate » cybercafe, posted by JonW on September 19, 2003, at 15:49:52
Wow, I too am having success with Manerix and having my ADD symptoms subsiding. I am so much more organized, almost too much. My husband and anyone who knows me has commented on how clean I keep our home lately, which is very unusual for me. I am not to sure if I am going overboard or not. But I can't stand anything out of order anymore, no way. And trust me that is really strange for me.
I am getting things done, planning, organizing and getting what needs to done, done. It's wild. But that is only for the things that can be fixed or done physically. I still have a hell of a time actually reading anything, that is so painful for me, I just can't concentrate long enough or else I am just really bored with what I am reading. If it really interests me, I may be able to read it.
Jon, you don't mind me asking what your heritage is? A study said that Finnish people did very well on Moclobemide. So maybe it's a norse thing. I am from mostly Norwegian Stock, with a bit of Swede and English thrown in there.
I also read reports where it was said that Moclobemide works as well as the other AD's for depression with less side-effects, so who knows, maybe it just hasn't got the attention it deserves.
Take care, and I am glad we have found something that works from us. Makes live more enjoyable.
Jaynee ;}
Posted by cubbybear on September 20, 2003, at 5:05:09
In reply to Re: Parnate, posted by cybercafe on September 19, 2003, at 12:27:41
> >
> >
>. But I do concede, if you're looking for a cure in a single drug, moclobemide doesn't seem to work for a lot of people. It works for jaynee and I, though! :) I am curious if people who didn't do well on this drug stayed on it long enough or at a high enough dose. The greatest effect for me wasn't felt until beyond 8 weeks.I'm one of those who tried Moclobemide and stayed on it for about 6 weeks, the conventional "kicking in" period for ADs. The way I view this drug, it did absolutely nothing for me and probably made my depression worse. It was like poison. And I think that if anyone has to suffer anymore than 4-6 weeks for their depression to subside, then that's entirely too long.
. . If it doesn't work, there's no withdrawal for most people and you can start a new drug as soon as 24 hours after you stop it. Compare that with the withdrawal of the classic MAOIs and the 2 week washout period."What" withdrawal from the classic MAOIs are you talking about?
> >
. It has been suggested by some that I may be bipolar (isn't everyone these days?)This statement might be offensive to some people reading this board. Can you provide evidence? If I'm also bipolar, then maybe I should get onto lithium fast and forget the Parnate (which has worked like a charm and never caused withdrawal problems when tapered at the rate of 10 mg. each week.)
Posted by JonW on September 20, 2003, at 10:04:20
In reply to Re: Parnate, posted by cubbybear on September 20, 2003, at 5:05:09
> . It has been suggested by some that I may be bipolar (isn't everyone these days?)
>
> This statement might be offensive to some people reading this board. Can you provide evidence? If I'm also bipolar, then maybe I should get onto lithium fast and forget the Parnate (which has worked like a charm and never caused withdrawal problems when tapered at the rate of 10 mg. each week.)You know, it occured to me maybe I should phrase that differently when I was typing it, but I let it go. I didn't in any way mean to imply that the symptoms people experience are not real. I've read a lot about bipolar disorder, and more recently, TLE. There's some reason to believe that people with bipolar spectrum disorders may infact have undiagnosed TLE. Afterall, our mood stabilizers are in fact anti-epileptic drugs. I don't know if that's the case or not, but my impression from seeing many different pdocs is that, unless you feet neatly into a category, it's not that difficult to pick up a bipolar label. Compared to the days when people with undiagnosed bipolar disorder suffered for years before a correct diagnosis, this is probably better. Of course, no unnecessary suffering would be best. But the point is, if I offended anyone, I certainly didn't mean to and I apologize.
Jon :)
p.s. I'll get to the rest of your message later... just wanted to fix any hurt feelings, first.
Posted by Francesco on September 20, 2003, at 18:09:49
In reply to Re: Any meds that doesn't have sexual side effects, posted by Ed O`Flaherty on September 17, 2003, at 5:59:34
Ehm ... are you sure that TCAs are free of sexual side-effects ? : ) My experience was (is) that they decrease libido and performance as well ... what did you try ?
Posted by zeugma on September 20, 2003, at 18:25:29
In reply to Re: Any meds that doesn't have sexual side effects » Ed O`Flaherty, posted by Francesco on September 20, 2003, at 18:09:49
> Ehm ... are you sure that TCAs are free of sexual side-effects ? : ) My experience was (is) that they decrease libido and performance as well ... what did you try ?
I have used a TCA for quite a while now... my understanding is that the TCA's which do not strongly affect serotonin (most of them except for clomipramine) have a MUCH lower incidence of sexual side effects than the SSRI's.
Posted by Francesco on September 21, 2003, at 8:17:47
In reply to Re: Any meds that doesn't have sexual side effects » Francesco , posted by zeugma on September 20, 2003, at 18:25:29
Ok, this would explain everything because the only one I have tried is clomipramine. Which one did you try ? I'd like to suggest an alternative to my doc. Thanks
Posted by zeugma on September 21, 2003, at 10:20:55
In reply to Re: Any meds that doesn't have sexual side effects » zeugma, posted by Francesco on September 21, 2003, at 8:17:47
> Ok, this would explain everything because the only one I have tried is clomipramine. Which one did you try ? I'd like to suggest an alternative to my doc. Thanks
The one I'm taking is nortriptyline. The secondary amine tricyclics (nortriptyline, desipramine) generally have fewer of every kind of side effect than the tertiary amines (clomipramine, amitriptyline, imipramine). See the detailed descriptions of these two classes, and how they compare to other AD's, at http://preskorn.com/books/omd_s8.html.
Posted by francesco on September 21, 2003, at 11:09:33
In reply to Re: Any meds that doesn't have sexual side effects » Francesco , posted by zeugma on September 21, 2003, at 10:20:55
Thank you a lot. I will ask for desipramine. My dumb psychiatrist says all the TCAs are the same. May I ask you if are on it for depression or something else ? Most boring side-effects ?
I'm looking for a med for ADHD and secondary amines seem good. I have been on clomipramine for many years but I'm nervous as hell while I'm on it ... Thanks again
Posted by zeugma on September 21, 2003, at 12:36:53
In reply to Re: Any meds that doesn't have sexual side effects » zeugma, posted by francesco on September 21, 2003, at 11:09:33
> Thank you a lot. I will ask for desipramine. My dumb psychiatrist says all the TCAs are the same. May I ask you if are on it for depression or something else ? Most boring side-effects ?
> I'm looking for a med for ADHD and secondary amines seem good. I have been on clomipramine for many years but I'm nervous as hell while I'm on it ... Thanks againI'm on nortriptyline for depression and ADHD. I was hyperactive as a child, but since adolescence my ADHD has more and more manifested itself as a severe feeling of being 'out of it,' fatigued, not feling fully awake even after multiple cups of coffee. The ADHD is similar to melancholic depression and I am convinced they are both expressions of a single underlying pathology.
Nortriptyline helped with the physical symptoms of depression (lacking energy, appetite, inability to sleep despite being tired all the time) but I was still feeling insufficiently alert to function the way I wanted. So I added Strattera in May. That has brought my alertness levels close to where they should be. Strattera is probably more like desipramine than nortriptyline, because it is less sedating (although a lot of people seem to find it sedating, so perceptions will vary).
The worst side effects of nortriptyline have been dry mouth and constipation. I have constipation-type iBS anyway, and I am currently taking two constipation-inducing meds (TCA and Strattera) so I don't know how much to attribute to nortriptyline.
Another point I would like to make is that I have a chronic condition (of depression, ADHD, and anxiety) that has been completely untreated through most of my life and has put me at a major disadvantage when interacting with others (because I have little experience of being a functional person). I can say this: Nortriptyline pulled me out of a condition where I couldn't eat, couldn't sleep, couldn't work more than a few hours a week, and couldn't talk to others without feeling like I was having a nervous breakdown.
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