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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 4749 to 4773 of 10407. Go back in thread:
Posted by theo on July 23, 2003, at 15:58:46
In reply to Re: Theoscooter1::theo, posted by Scooter1 on July 23, 2003, at 10:00:37
This morning, 7/23/03. I feel great, actually more leveled off. At 37.5mg I felt like it was trying to kick in but just scratching the surface. Today is just the first day at 75mg but I actually feel more at ease and not as moody. I'll keep you posted.
Posted by catachrest on July 23, 2003, at 15:58:57
In reply to Re: Ways to fight initial drowsiness/sleep problem » catachrest, posted by zinya on July 23, 2003, at 15:29:35
Thanks Zinya,
I think I will try that. I've been taking it with supper - which is often later in the evening due to my decreased appetite lately - and maybe I would benefit from taking it in the morning, or even at lunch. My doctor didn't recommend a time of day, only that I should eat something with it, which is why I chose suppertime.
Susan
> hi Susan,
>
> welcome! I was a newcomer not so long ago myself...
>
> What time of day are you taking your Effexor? (It's the XR time-release, right?)
>
> It could be that you might benefit from changing from night to morning or morning to night ... I take mine at night after dinner (initially out of concern for nausea which did me in with other a-d's i've tried) to be on fullest stomach of the day and so far i haven't had trouble sleeping although i do find myself having a third coffee many days even though i usually tried to keep myself to one or two. But otherwise, i've been fine with taking it night.
>
> However, as you've surely read, others here had to do the opposite and switch to mornings ... If you have enough 37.5s you might try making the switch before you move up to 75 so there's less of an adjustment to your body as you gradually shift time of day.
>
> ???
>
> just my 2c,
>
> zinya
Posted by CherC68 on July 23, 2003, at 16:23:04
In reply to Re: music, romance, missing in depression... » zinya, posted by mercedes on July 23, 2003, at 14:49:37
Dear Mercedes and Zinya,
Zinya - I too am sorry that I have not responded to your posting on music.
I watch mostly discovery & tlc and mostly about the medical detectives. I do not watch anything to do with babies and I don't like too many comedies, well okay - I don't like hardly any comedies. I am more your Planes, Trains & Automobile kind of person - dark comedies.
Zinya, I'm sorry about your back. You told me you've been icing it, but I didn't realize it was that bad - I'm so very sorry. I hope that in a few days since you had your adjustment it will be feeling better.
Sweats are still there too and that is doubly horrible. I've been sweating more lately but I'm thinking its the dampness here.
I would definitely like to hear what you have to say and any advise or help would be greatly appreciated.
As always, I hope everyone is having panic attack free day and happy day. One day at a time, I suppose. Thanks again for listening.
Hugs and lots of love,
Cher
Posted by KimberlyDi on July 23, 2003, at 17:00:51
In reply to Re: Effexor - what do u mean by imposter?, posted by mercedes on July 23, 2003, at 14:00:54
Daph, if you feel like a failure or an imposter, realize that it's your inner negative voice trying to break you down again. I know the "imposter" feeling. I was sent to an "eating disorders" group therapy session. I saw all those pencil thin girls and almost cried, thinking I was a failure at even having an eating disorder. I wasn't overweight, by all means. But my inner voice always tells me that I am, and I have an unhealty envy of those girls who have the total willpower to starve themselves. I personally am glad you are here, regardless of your Effexor dosage.
KDi in TexasP.S. I always feel like I'm barely "faking" it through life. That someday everybody is going to see how worthless I really am, and not like me anymore. It's hard to fight those feelings.
> Daph, what do you mean that you feel like an imposter here? If you are reaching out for help through this site, you are not alone. Do you want to talk about why you feel like an "imposter here and everywhere". I used to refer to myself as a robot, going thru each day like a robot, get up, get dressed, go to work, pretend to be happy, go home and do the same thing the next day. Please stay with us and let us help you out if we can.
>
> p.s. another shorthand, SE-side effects.
> Mercedes
>
>
>
> > This is amazing! No, I have old (samples) 37.5 mg tabs, and when I DO get so down that I feel like trying again, I break one in like fifths! So I feel like an imposter here cause I hear people dealing with issues over 150 mg, but where else am I going to deal with these issues?? And anyway, I feel like an imposter everywhere and always.
>
>
Posted by zinya on July 23, 2003, at 17:55:30
In reply to Re: music etc. Zinya » mercedes, posted by CherC68 on July 23, 2003, at 16:23:04
hi Cher,
please -- and to mercedes too -- i wasn't meaning for anybody to feel they 'should' have responded to that music post ... It just started being relevant to so many people talking about music but i wasn't sure if people already had read my thoughts on the topic.
Heaven knows, i get lost in the posts here and sometimes miss some posts i onlyrealize later i didn't even see ... I'd swear sometimes in fact, that they weren't even there previously, as if they "snuck in" belatedly into my list :))
hmmmm
Well, Cher, what i was referring to is a sense i've been getting increasingly lately from your posts of the avalanche of things you're dealing with and i debated mentioning here (in part so anyone else, like mercedes for example, who disagrees with my interpretation could chime in -- as well as obviously you yourself) and i feel a bit funny giving an unsolicited "diagnosis" cuz also, heaven knows, i'm no diagnostician... But several recent posts of yours have increasingly led me to think that with what you are dealing with in your life just even in terms of your hands, but then with so much else, of managing your whole house amid floods and storms and so many other things you've gradually shared bit by bit plus just even the "usual" wifely and motherly and employee stresses that come with the territory, you've had an avalanche of things beyond the norm... And it has made me think that maybe what you're dealing with is "normal depression/anxiety/stress" rather than a "clinical" one which is due to biochemical imbalance that requires or would benefit from these a-d's. It made me begin to think that maybe your inner instinct that made you quit the Effexor was a totally right instinct, and with others having not worked either, maybe it's telling you that your biochemistry doesn't need an a-d. Maybe the problem is that you've been totally overloaded with too much-- starting with, most basically, the pains of your hands which would make anyone in pain, which always makes a person constantly irritated and zapping your strength etc etc...
For years, I kept coming back to a sense that maybe for me too it wasn't really a biochemical thing each time i tried one and had a bad reaaction and quit -- and i could still wind up coming to that conclusion with Effexor too, but so far it's been something i could stick with longer and give it a "real try" and maybe it's telling me that there is some biochemical thing it's "fixing."
Now, heaven knows, i'm in no position to be doing this long-distance "analysis" of what you're dealing with. But the more i would hear you describe BOTH all the ENORMOUS hassles (which is an understatement) that you've been coping with AND on the other hand how i hear signs that say to me you are still able to do things (as odd as it sounds) like laugh hysterically or vibrate with music and talk with such delight about your cousin's band ... Things that -- and maybe here it's just me whose experience is too unrepresentative -- but i feel like if mine is "clinical depression" as I finally decided maybe it is, i can't even imagine (even yet) having the energy to laugh hysterically -- which I wish i could do again (but, please understand, i'm not minimizing how crazed you were feeling then)... Maybe that's a bad basis for seeing a contrast, which is why i'm giving an example for you to see what it is i'm basing this on, but even in your "breakdown" on Monday, you struck me as having the kind of breakdown that any sane person SHOULD have had in that situation. You "deserved" to have a "breakdown" in the midst of all that - and as you described how you started laughing on the phone with your husband about it ... I don't know, maybe i'm totally wrong, but it just didn't sound like what i'm coming to think this "clinical depression" thing is.
Unfortunately, i think most doctors prescribe way too readily without really plumbing the depths to figure out what kind of depression we are feeling when we say we're depressed. Cuz more than ever, i feel like i'm realizing there's "depressed" and then there's "depressed" -- and i don't want to make one with a capital "D" more than the other cuz each one is surely just as daunting as the other, but i think one of them can benefit from drug therapy cuz there's a biochemical component and the other one can't. And at least one of these "other" kinds of depression would seem to be from an accumulation of life circumstances that leads to depression and anxiety.
I feel like i'm babbling and you might totally disagree with me - I hope only that i'm making clear what i mean to say, which i'm not at all sure about. Does this make sense to you? If it does, it would make sense of your stopping the a-d's and maybe mean that if you see a pdoc, you might want to pose this question first of whether an a-d is even appropriate for you rather than just assuming one is and trying to find a different one that would work. Maybe with xanax or whatever, the reason you like it is because it's the one thing your body's biochemistry is missing and so maybe that's enough to help and then hopefully if your hands can find relief and all this avalanche of crises can abate... Or do you sense that there's a whole other kind of depression that i'm forgetting about in your situation that does feel like something biochemical to you?
Well, now i *really* feel like i'm babbling, so i'm gonna quit and hope i haven't said anything that comes across as 'invasive' or presumptuousness but if i have and you want to tell me to "mind my own business" i'll understand, though of course i hope not :)) And, again, of course, it does feel presumptuous of me that i'm saying any of this cuz i don't even know myself whether what i have is "clinical depression" or what it looks or feels like, not to mention that there must be a lot of variation across people ...
anyway, these were thoughts that had started to occur to me, and it seemed like if i just kept them to myself that -- even if you disagree with my interpretation -- maybe it would be helpful to you to hear it and know whether it sounds reasonable to you or not... That is, if i've even been clear :)
okay, enough!!
love and hugs,
zinya
Posted by Susy on July 23, 2003, at 18:03:44
In reply to Re: No imposters here » Daphnis, posted by CherC68 on July 23, 2003, at 15:38:19
I completely agree with what Cher said.
It's not easy to know who is in the worst position, I was feeling like that in the beginning when I started sharing in the babble because maybe I am the only one not american here, so I thought "maybe there are going to think I don't belong here eitherw" thanks God everybody have been so sweet with me and suprisily sharing their own problems and fears with each other in the Babble, Mercedes said something today that because of our anxiety must of us are kind of Drug Phobic, which is my case, I only take Xanex, less than Mercedes, more than Cher; and that's it I can't stand the AD's, now going along with Mercedes maybe the word imposter is not the right one, but yes, sometimes everybody look so normal and we are dealing with a panic attack inside, like Freddie Mercury just to say, my make up maybe melting, my hart can be shaking but my body still stays on......show must go on......we understand you perfectly Daphne.Sorry, again, I have to go when I was must inspired =)
I'll come back later on to night.......
Susy
Posted by countess on July 23, 2003, at 18:24:09
In reply to Re: Ways to fight initial drowsiness/sleep problem, posted by catachrest on July 23, 2003, at 15:58:57
> hi-i took my med at night when i started and had the same trouble as you with insomnia and then tiredness during the day. i switched to a.m. and still had insomnia. i am back to taking my med at night to see if it is better and i feel i sleep better when i take it at night but during the day i am very drowsy. i am at 75 xr now. i took 37.5 for two weeks and then 75 for almost 6 weeks. i think i actually prefer taking it at night. i take it for anxiety and feel better this way. i know each person is different. i also agree that you should try the timing while you are at a lower dose. i switched back to nighttime last weekend and my muscles were very tired and weak and i didn't get anything done while waiting to take the p.m dose (i skipped the a.m.) take care and good luck!
Thanks Zinya,
>
> I think I will try that. I've been taking it with supper - which is often later in the evening due to my decreased appetite lately - and maybe I would benefit from taking it in the morning, or even at lunch. My doctor didn't recommend a time of day, only that I should eat something with it, which is why I chose suppertime.
>
> Susan
>
>
> > hi Susan,
> >
> > welcome! I was a newcomer not so long ago myself...
> >
> > What time of day are you taking your Effexor? (It's the XR time-release, right?)
> >
> > It could be that you might benefit from changing from night to morning or morning to night ... I take mine at night after dinner (initially out of concern for nausea which did me in with other a-d's i've tried) to be on fullest stomach of the day and so far i haven't had trouble sleeping although i do find myself having a third coffee many days even though i usually tried to keep myself to one or two. But otherwise, i've been fine with taking it night.
> >
> > However, as you've surely read, others here had to do the opposite and switch to mornings ... If you have enough 37.5s you might try making the switch before you move up to 75 so there's less of an adjustment to your body as you gradually shift time of day.
> >
> > ???
> >
> > just my 2c,
> >
> > zinya
>
>
Posted by willie on July 23, 2003, at 19:02:36
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
Good evening everyone. Well looking at the postings I would say everyone had a pretty good day today.
Cher, I am most impressed by your words today about how we all support one another on the site. I couldn't have said it any better. I'm glad you're having a better day today. You've been in my thoughts.
Actually a lot of you have been in my thoughts since I began sharing on the thread. Funny how total strangers can impact one's life. To give advice, support, "hugs" and truly care. In essence we have a bond, whether or not we are on effexor. We all suffer from some sort of mental issue and who better to support you than people who can truly relate to your pain and fright.
Susy....I'm Canadian...so that would make at least two of us on the thread who aren't American.
Kdi..not sure if it is you who mentioned the point about "faking it" through life. I can totally relate to that. For the longest time I would watch other people to see how I was to act around them. I compared myself to being a chameleon, I swore I could have fit in anywhere and anyone. I faked it so much I had no idea who I was anymore. I'm much better at being myself now (I think..ha ha). My husband tells me I'm one of the kindest, mostgiving person he's ever met but I still have that little voice inside me saying, "If he only knew the true you." So needless to say when you wrote that comment it struck a cord with me.
Theo...so happy for you that your feeling good on your first day at 75mg. I'll be watching your updates as I may eventually work up to that level myself. I've been on 37.5 for 8 months now.
Zinya, sorry to hear about your back..it must be incredible hard for you to get comfortable. I wish you a speedy recovery.
Mercedes...You make me smile almost everytime I read your postings. You have some wise words and tend to share them with a sense of humor.
I do have a question with how you all control your dosages. Do the doctors tell you when and how much to increase it? Mine just gave me the 37.5 dosage with no indication of increase. I guess if I experience some behavours we'll look at taking the next step. I have noticed more of my obsessive compulsive behavour coming out again. Not good...that's an indicator to me that my axiety levels are increasing. I'm trying to put off the next increase in dosage just to see whether or not it's just a phase I'm going through to increased stressors at work.
Anyway...I'm off to bed. I'll look tomorrow to see your updates. Have a peacefull night everyone.
Willie
Posted by zinya on July 23, 2003, at 20:40:22
In reply to Re: Cher, Susy, Kdi, Theo, Zinya, Mercedes, posted by willie on July 23, 2003, at 19:02:36
hi Willie,
i think this is the first time i'm writing you - i was kind of on overload when you started writing, i think... Thanks for your wishes.
i completely share your feelings about this group. What a lifeline. And how quickly i've come to feel close to people here, developing vague images of what people look like over time and sensing a kind of "knowledge" which is unique cuz we dive into to areas we don't talk readily to anybody else about. My best friends know what i'm going through but it's too boring, imo, to drag them through specifics that would alarm them disproportionately sometimes and to sense here that people have "been there" in varying ways... Also that we're all exploring together, trying to piece (detective-like) our individual bits of perspective -- about what depression and anxiety even really are, much less how to deal with them ...
I gather you're from eastern Canada? like Nova Scotia or somewhere? (you don't have to answer if you don't want to get specific) but i have exotic images of what eastern Canada must be like. I was in Montreal once and took the CNR (which i think they derailed a few years ago, right?) across to Vancouver - that was 30 yrs ago... 3 days and nights through such varying countryside, but that's all i know of Canada directly... plus a couple of trips to Vancouver... but i doubt you're from there or that would mean you're going to bed at 6 pm :)) but maybe...
Given your moniker here (and my own absentmindedness), i just now realized that you're a woman! :)) It sounds like you have a key quality in that husband of yours :) ... and with time and self-messages you can even start to believe him! :)
To Daphne as well as you, i too very much relate to having the notion of "If he only knew the true me." I've had those times and kinds of dynamics in my life too ... It's kind of like that romance advice i mentioned the other day in another post which i'd learned and still means so much to me, easier to say than do but so important..
As to your question on dosages, I'm afraid I'm rather "stubborn" and resistant to doing what doctors tell me if i sense my body telling me something different. So i've been only increasing my dosage at the rate and pace that i felt ready for ... I waited pretty much to make sure i wasn't feeling side effects anymore at that level (except for the sweating which has become so constant it seems i couldn't wait for that one to quit but i at least waited til i didn't real any more dizziness or other weird feelings in my head and then stayed a couple or a few days more at that level to make sure and then moved on.
How much did he give you at 37.5? Does he want you back to see him before they expire? Maybe he's planning to decide then. Maybe the dosage levels are different for OCD??
If your md. only talked about 37.5, then i probably wouldn't go to a higher level without asking him (or her) first, i think. Sounds wise to see if increase in work stress might be skewing your perceptions.
I guess i felt more "stubborn" cuz it meant for me going slower than my md. had suggested. But i probably wouldn't have gone faster than my md. suggested, which is why i'm suggesting you talk to him (or her) before moving up if all that was mentioned was 37.5.
with well wishes and sweet dreams to far off Canada :)
zinya
Posted by Daphnis on July 23, 2003, at 22:29:09
In reply to Re: Effexor...p.s. » mercedes, posted by KimberlyDi on July 23, 2003, at 12:51:37
Hey KDi, what IS the difference between Effexor and Effexor XR?? I looked it up on Google but only got info on effexor XR so thought I was mistaken and it must be all the same.
Posted by Daphnis on July 23, 2003, at 22:36:46
In reply to Re: Shorthand? What's BAM and pdoc?, posted by mercedes on July 23, 2003, at 13:15:49
Thanks. That's helpful. (And so nice!) I also have way too much anxiety, fear, obsessive thinking, ptsd (why, I don't know. but I jump hard at loud noises) and depression. tonight I went to the state fair (taking a disabled person, at work) and just marvelled at how the people could listen to the concert at that decible level! I had to hold my fingers in my ears the whole hour we were there. I have always been sensitive like that. One counselor told me some small percentage of babies are just born super sensitive like that.
Posted by Daphnis on July 23, 2003, at 23:05:40
In reply to Re: Effexor - what do u mean by imposter?, posted by mercedes on July 23, 2003, at 14:00:54
well, I'm way behind because I went to work and just got back, but will read through and see what lies ahead as well. but I'll answer this...
I have never felt like I belonged anywhere. I guess it's just the feeling I learned in my family. No one talked about anything real. and I was lonely at school. I was sort of anti-social. I think cause I didn't know how. funny, as now most of my life is people oriented. I did well and went to a good college but always wondered why they had accepted ME? Felt pretty lost all my life. Started getting help after college. A few pdocs. First one fell asleep, which didn't help the old lack of confidence. Had one I loved, for a year or so. He helped a lot. Married a wounded man and had two girls, now 21 and 18. Divorced in 93. He re-married, a woman half his age, just like my own dad did.
I went to grad school at 43 or so, and loved it, but I always felt I was doing things for wrong reasons. Taught freshman comp and world lit and British lit one year, and really felt like an imposter then!!! But I was just green, I guess...
Had trouble finding work after the fellowship, living in a very small town. Made bagels in a cafe starting at $4.25 an hour! I was overeducated and underskilled. Didn't belong at the university, didn't belong at the cafe, though it was actually basically a good interlude, despite the divorce happening then. I was learning that I could, indeed, take care of myself, even in difficult circumstances. I also realized I needed spiritual help, somewhere around 43, and joined a church, where I REALLY felt like an imposter, as I was an atheist for 30 years and have serious issues with any set of religious "laws". Maybe now, at 55, I am getting some realization that everyone muddles along, even if they act like they have it together, and I may feel like I deserve a place in the human race afterall. Not really there yet, I guess... It is really just serious feelings of inadequacy. Helpless and hopeless. that's the role I immediately revert to around my family. and it feels so familiar and so awful at the same time! OK. that's my attempt to describe feeling an imposter or always an outsider. I need a lot of solitude and isolate a lot, too. I think it's protective. I just take things too hard. Oh, one more place I felt an imposter...it took me YEARS in Al-anon to feel I really belonged there. I just kept saying: No one drank THAT much...no one was violent, etc. I didn't think the alcohol part was right, but I just knew everything I heard was familiar and helpful. At some point I told a counselor I didn't know if my dad was an alcoholic or not, but he carried a small suitcase bar in the trunk of his car, and gallon bottles of gin, rum, bourbon, etc. she just started to laugh...so...although I understand where the feelings come from, that doesn't make them easier to deal with. they still incapacitate me at times. I just despair, at times. Al-anon has given me some helpful tools to get out of it, if I can remember and make myself use them! phew! this site is like opening a window in a stuffy old house. It's great, but scary. Admitting vulnerability and needing help? Yipes.
Posted by Daphnis on July 23, 2003, at 23:23:48
In reply to Re: No imposters here » Daphnis, posted by CherC68 on July 23, 2003, at 15:38:19
wow, thanks Cher. I'm sort of bowled over by all the support. I realize the extent of family conditioning. Everyone was struggling but NO ONE talked about it. and Psychiatry and Psychology and/or any pastoral care were absolutely unthinkable. Instead of support there was criticism. I am sort of in shock, here, due to everyone's kindness.
I know there is genetic stuff in my family. I have serious mood swings myself. I've learned to recognize the brief (two hours?) manic elation and know that a low depression is coming that same day. and I have a bipolar nephew.
Posted by Yankeegirl on July 23, 2003, at 23:26:51
In reply to Re: Hi All... » willie, posted by CherC68 on July 22, 2003, at 19:22:37
> Thanks Willie, Susy & Kimberly & everyone for listening to my breakdown yesterday.
>
> I didn't go to the movies today, I'm a bit tired since I got up every 1-1/2 hours last night to drain the water in the basement. I'm conducting a test now to see how long it takes the hole to fill up. At least I can manually plug the pump in to drain - but I need to know the exact hours it takes to fill up. It's finally sunny here and no rain this evening predicted so hopefully the ground will dry up a bit.
>
> Yes, Eat A Peach has gotten to open up for some awesome bands, but The Wallflowers was the most fun by far, I got to sit on stage and hang out in the green room.
>
> Today I listened to some Poi Dog Pondering another favorite band and its more uplifting.
>
> I have a list of PDocs & Therapists, but no energy to actually call one of them. I see the hand specialists on Saturday and don't know how much out of pocket I will have to pay for the surgery, and don't want to start getting into debt with doctors since I just seen the dentist and that cost so far 200 out of pocket.
>
> I am hoping I don't have another breakdown like I did yesterday and since my husband and son will be home tomorrow - I should be fine. My son will always be home with me for now on when my husband is out of town, because I realize I'm much stronger when my son is around. (I have to be for him.)
>
> Thanks for getting me through a rough day yesterday everyone and thanks for listening.
>
> Hugs,
> Cher
>
> Hi Cher, I totally understand how you don't have the energy to call a pdoc. That is the major clue for me that I am depressed, is that a simple phone call is too overwhelming to accomplish. (I used to get seasonal affective disorder, or winter blues, and that was my main reaction to it)I don't know why nobody on this site talks about what they learn in therapy. My understanding is that the Effexor is only part of a successful treatment, that some kind of therapy is necessary too, for most people. Well, I've been on Eff 4 weeks, but today was the first time I actually had a talk with my pdoc. What a revelation! We went over the results of my psychiatric personality testing (called Minnesota something or other, I'll find out the name next week) where I answered about 700 true-false questions. I was diagnosed with depression and avoidant personality disorder. When she read the description of that from the (DSM?) book, I kept saying, "That's me! That's me!" I am SO HAPPY and EXCITED tonight. My problem has a name! They know how to fix me! They assured me I am fixable! I am so excited!
Cher, I urge you to make that one phone call for a pdoc. If you can't do it, maybe your son or husband will do it for you. I think that your mental health is more important right now than your carpal tunnel surgery. It's pretty scary for us to hear how deep in the depression you are right now, and I hope you can decide to put your needs first and foremost, for the first time maybe, and get the help you are needing. The hope I feel today is worth any amount of money. I am so excited about my pdoc helping me that I would do anything legal to pay for it - I'd even ask relatives for money. First I'd call all the ones who bullied me all my childhood - HA! "This is your fault - give me money!!!"
Seriously, please call a psychiatist today!
Sending caring prayers, Yankeegirl
Posted by Daphnis on July 23, 2003, at 23:27:54
In reply to No imposters, Cher is right!! » Daphnis, posted by zinya on July 23, 2003, at 15:52:27
ok. I think it's starting to sink in that I am ok here and welcome. Seems like a safe place. which is often sorely lacking in the "real" world. (I always think that is backwards, and this stuff is the REALITY.)thanks to everybody! I like the "posters" joke. good one.
Posted by Daphnis on July 23, 2003, at 23:36:11
In reply to No imposters, Cher is right!! » Daphnis, posted by zinya on July 23, 2003, at 15:52:27
Yes, Daph is better. Daphnis is the guy in the story. a blind, flute-playing shepherd! But I tried 'Chloe' and the name was already in use. Suppose I could use "Daffy"! but I try hard not to call myself crazy.
Posted by Daphnis on July 23, 2003, at 23:41:40
In reply to Daph-Effexor - what do u mean by imposter?, posted by KimberlyDi on July 23, 2003, at 17:00:51
Yeah. I feel like everyone can already see that I am worthless! Not like someday, but NOW! It's terrible self-doubt. I doubt everything I do. Always think I should be doing something ELSE!
Posted by Daphnis on July 23, 2003, at 23:48:13
In reply to Re: No imposters here, posted by Susy on July 23, 2003, at 18:03:44
Yeah. there's a helpful expression I try to remember: I'm comparing everyone else's outsides with my insides.
Posted by Yankeegirl on July 24, 2003, at 0:34:25
In reply to Re: Effexor - what do u mean by imposter? » mercedes, posted by Daphnis on July 23, 2003, at 23:05:40
> well, I'm way behind because I went to work and just got back, but will read through and see what lies ahead as well. but I'll answer this...
> I have never felt like I belonged anywhere. I guess it's just the feeling I learned in my family. No one talked about anything real. and I was lonely at school. I was sort of anti-social. I think cause I didn't know how. funny, as now most of my life is people oriented. I did well and went to a good college but always wondered why they had accepted ME? Felt pretty lost all my life. Started getting help after college. A few pdocs. First one fell asleep, which didn't help the old lack of confidence. Had one I loved, for a year or so. He helped a lot. Married a wounded man and had two girls, now 21 and 18. Divorced in 93. He re-married, a woman half his age, just like my own dad did.
> I went to grad school at 43 or so, and loved it, but I always felt I was doing things for wrong reasons. Taught freshman comp and world lit and British lit one year, and really felt like an imposter then!!! But I was just green, I guess...
> Had trouble finding work after the fellowship, living in a very small town. Made bagels in a cafe starting at $4.25 an hour! I was overeducated and underskilled. Didn't belong at the university, didn't belong at the cafe, though it was actually basically a good interlude, despite the divorce happening then. I was learning that I could, indeed, take care of myself, even in difficult circumstances. I also realized I needed spiritual help, somewhere around 43, and joined a church, where I REALLY felt like an imposter, as I was an atheist for 30 years and have serious issues with any set of religious "laws". Maybe now, at 55, I am getting some realization that everyone muddles along, even if they act like they have it together, and I may feel like I deserve a place in the human race afterall. Not really there yet, I guess... It is really just serious feelings of inadequacy. Helpless and hopeless. that's the role I immediately revert to around my family. and it feels so familiar and so awful at the same time! OK. that's my attempt to describe feeling an imposter or always an outsider. I need a lot of solitude and isolate a lot, too. I think it's protective. I just take things too hard. Oh, one more place I felt an imposter...it took me YEARS in Al-anon to feel I really belonged there. I just kept saying: No one drank THAT much...no one was violent, etc. I didn't think the alcohol part was right, but I just knew everything I heard was familiar and helpful. At some point I told a counselor I didn't know if my dad was an alcoholic or not, but he carried a small suitcase bar in the trunk of his car, and gallon bottles of gin, rum, bourbon, etc. she just started to laugh...so...although I understand where the feelings come from, that doesn't make them easier to deal with. they still incapacitate me at times. I just despair, at times. Al-anon has given me some helpful tools to get out of it, if I can remember and make myself use them! phew! this site is like opening a window in a stuffy old house. It's great, but scary. Admitting vulnerability and needing help? Yipes.
Hi Daphnis,There is SO MUCH in your post above that sounds familiar to me. We really do understand. I think we are all still trying to figure out what to do about it though! I was painfully shy as a little girl, and maybe being bullied by every male in my family kept me from getting over being shy. Even today, everything in my life has to be really good for me to be able to be social without overwhelming anxiety. If I receive any criticism, it just knocks me over for weeks. If I get actually rejected, well, that happened 2 years ago, and I basically went home, cried for 2 days, and pretty much just stayed home ever since. My pdoc (Psychiatrist) is going to talk with me about stuff from my childhood and how that affects me today, and also some cognitive tnerapy, which is something like keeping a journal to write down all those negative thoughts that automatically pop into our brain, and then actually stepping back to analyze if it is a rational thought, and gradually becoming more aware of the bad stuff we tell ourselves, and how to recognize it, and then stop it. I mention that because in your post above, there is a lot that sounds like automatic negative talk - "Why do they like ME" "my pdoc fell asleep so that means something is wrong with me" "everyone else has it together but I'm faking it"...
This is a wonderful, safe place. Even when sharing opinions that might not be welcome, people are careful to phrase it so that the other person isn't insulted, and they always respond with gratitude for the reply, even if they do disagree...
Good luck, and keep posting! Yankeegirl
Posted by Daphnis on July 24, 2003, at 0:53:53
In reply to Re: Effexor - what do u mean by imposter?, posted by Yankeegirl on July 24, 2003, at 0:34:25
Hello. Oh man! I am so bad at taking criticism that I can hardly be effective at work after an evaluation or a routine run in with my (dumb and unhelpful) superior! I internalize every bad message cause it jives with my bad self-image. Then I can't shake it but am angry at the same time. very debilitating.
I have incredible negative self-talk. I have been aware of this for several years now, but it is a long journey from awareness to change! I am making slow (and I mean very slow) progress, I guess. this is an improvement over my former attitude that no one can ever change, really.
yeah, rational-emotive therapy. It is hard to make that child listen to that adult! But I keep trying. thanks for the encouragement!
Posted by zinya on July 24, 2003, at 1:11:01
In reply to Re: Effexor - what do u mean by imposter? » mercedes, posted by Daphnis on July 23, 2003, at 23:05:40
Hi Daph,
hope you don't mind if i chime in here too... I had been prompted to ask you if you felt like talking about this more too, but i saw that Mercedes already had so i didn't want to bombard you but i am inspired to say a few things to your brave and honest post here.In some ways, face to face communication is always best, but i think there's a special role for cybercommunication and, ironically, even more so with people we don't "know" in a group like this, which can liberate us to 'test the waters' of voicing things that sometimes we feel silly or awkward or embarrassed to tell even a close friend - sometimes just because like in that great quote you cited -- even our close friends and family - we can easily come to compare their "outsides" to our "insides" (i really liked that - thanks!)
We have some interesting things in common - we're the same age. And i too went back to grad school the lasted through my 40's practically. My dad too was alcoholic, and i too didn't really come to realize it til i was mid adulthood. He had quit drinking when i was 3, when mom gave him an ultimatum, but as you know, an alcoholic is always an alcoholic and there are certain key "personality traits" of alcoholism that persist, and they leave strong messages/imprints on kids.
I had divorced much younger than you did and don't have children (but some great god-children) so obviously there are differences too
But i can certainly relate to your sense of not fitting in, being different. I had some very distinctive differences about myself growing up that made my childhood esp. from age 6 on feel very much "on my own to figure out life" with a sense of being loved but not a lot of daily support for "who i really was" but instead feeling just enough of that need to please and a sense of expectations. I was outwardly fairly social but had an inner life that was completely at odds and one in which i felt absolutely like i didn't fit.
I think the biggest thing that has helped me -- and only since my divorce (after a marriage that exponentially worsened my sense of self, daily critiqued and belittled) -- has been to decide both that nobody really fits in (kind of like your quote) but also a sort of sense or motto almost that "weird is good" :)) ... But that doesn't always 'work' as a mental strategy by a long shot and certainly not while depressed and anxious.
It took a long time (including the last 15 years of periodic trials with anti-deps that never worked) to really finally think that maybe i have been dealing with depression for a long time, maybe since a car accident when i was 6 even that totally disrupted my life... And I increasingly think my dad was dealing with depression all his life too, never treated except by the false treatment of his alcoholic years... So maybe it's even genetic.
Who knows. But it took coming to a sort of rock bottom after i lost my mom this last year, and i sunk into quicksand that became eventually paralyzing and suffocating at times. So here i am.
Sometimes i babble on here ad nauseum, like now. Other times, i lapse out cuz i have zero energy even to write. But i am here and welcoming you sincerely and always open -- well i think i am, I try to be anyway -- to sharing such explorations of what it is that stymies us. Already i've found what an irreplaceable place this site is.
with warm good wishes, Daph,
zinya
Posted by mercedes on July 24, 2003, at 1:12:33
In reply to Re: No imposters, Cher is right!! » zinya, posted by Daphnis on July 23, 2003, at 23:36:11
Daph, I think we can all relate to being Goofy, Daffy, Grumpy, Sleepy, sometimes even Crazy on this site. You made me laugh which is good medicine. Welcome and thanks for being open. You'll find some real caring folks here.
Looking fwd to hearing more from you,
Mercedes (not Dodge or Ford, but Mercedes! :)
*****************************
> Yes, Daph is better. Daphnis is the guy in the story. a blind, flute-playing shepherd! But I tried 'Chloe' and the name was already in use. Suppose I could use "Daffy"! but I try hard not to call myself crazy.
Posted by zinya on July 24, 2003, at 1:23:19
In reply to Re: No imposters, Cher is right!! » zinya, posted by Daphnis on July 23, 2003, at 23:36:11
aha! so that was your inspiration. Well, we could call you Ravel sometimes too :)) I have this immediate impression you'll make some beautiful music here :)
but Daph seems nice so that it is ... and now that you explained, i'll hear echoes of 'afternoon of a faun' when i open a post from you. That's pretty cool!
[and now, just as a tiny example, i'm thinking "oh dear am i mixing up composers and songs with the wrong symphonies?" - typical of my constant self-doubt - and almost went to look it up before saying something stupid but stopped myself and thought, "No, if there's any place i can just let myself be stupid, it should be here" :) so if i've mixed everything up, just laugh at me .. or with me. This feels therapeutic, not to go having to make sure i'm saying the right thing :)
so thanks :) ... and sweet dreams,
z.
Posted by indium on July 24, 2003, at 6:16:32
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by Bridget on July 11, 2003, at 13:50:55
anyone any thoughts on the difference between effexor XR and immediate release effexor? For me 375mg of XR is amazing. the only thing that's ever worked, but of course that's more than allowed to be prescribed. 375mg of original effexor only just takes the edge off. Anyone know why the prescribable doses are different or hwo to take the immediate release stuff so it has anything like the effect of the XR?
Posted by indium on July 24, 2003, at 6:16:51
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR?, posted by Bridget on July 11, 2003, at 13:50:55
anyone any thoughts on the difference between effexor XR and immediate release effexor? For me 375mg of XR is amazing. the only thing that's ever worked, but of course that's more than allowed to be prescribed. 375mg of original effexor only just takes the edge off. Anyone know why the prescribable doses are different or hwo to take the immediate release stuff so it has anything like the effect of the XR?
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