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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Viridis on June 23, 2003, at 23:39:59
In reply to Re: how do i know if i have add versus 'depression' » Lasagne, posted by bookgurl99 on June 23, 2003, at 15:50:19
Really, don't feel inferior if you turn out to have ADD. One therapist I saw (who urged medication, but wasn't licensed to prescribe) insisted on calling it "attention difference disorder". His point was that it had nothing to do with with intelligence, creativity, etc.; it's just a different way of viewing the world that doesn't always mesh with highly structured environments. I tend to agree.
I once asked my pdoc if I'd be considered "ADD" if I were in a different line of work that required less attention to long-term detail. He said something like, probably not, but you've made these choices and I'm medicating you for your situation -- that's all I can do.
So, you can radically change your life, or take meds that help you fit in, or find some compromise in between. I've chosen the compromise approach -- moderate med use (avoiding the ones that really change my personality, by trial and error), which allows me to focus better on a career that allows a lot of freedom and imagination.
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 23, 2003, at 23:49:08
In reply to Re: how do i know if i have add versus 'depression' » bookgurl99, posted by Lasagne on June 23, 2003, at 13:17:26
> You may want to consider reading a book that I just finished called "Driven to Distraction" by Drs. Hallowell and Ratey.
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by gouda on June 24, 2003, at 2:13:07
In reply to Re: Thoroughly annoyed at Strattera » gouda, posted by Lasagne on June 20, 2003, at 10:45:25
Lasagne,
Thanks for checking up on me. I'm an ADD - Inattentive Type, so my problem is different from Hyperactives. I cannot focus and get distracted easily.
I'm having the same "cannot relax" problem as you!! I totally feel your annoyance at the sleepiness compounded with being tense!
I'm having the similar problem, I take Strattera at night to help me fall asleep.
However what I run into is ... my mind is racing like 100 mph, I'm obsessively thinking about "things I forgot to do" ... "what I should have said to someone" ... "what I need to get done" ... etc etc ....
My body is calling to me to sleep.
My mind is calling to me to get up and get stuff done!Is your "inability to relax" caused by your thoughts as well??
Gouda
> gouda:
> Are you taking Strattera for ADD/ADHD?
> If so that doesn't sound right if you brain feels like it is racing 100 mph. The correct ADD treatment should calm your hyperactive brain so you can focus better.
> Just this last week I have been experiencing on and off wakefulness during the night with the Strattera. At first the medication made me so sleepy during the day, then I switched to taking it at 7 p.m. and it helped me to relax and have a good nights sleep. Now I am having a difficult time relaxing even though the Strattera calms my brain down and I want to sleep. Plus, I have been getting up 3-4 times a night to go to the bathroom. When I wake up in the morning my back feels all wrenched even though I have a very nice mattress that wasn't giving me problems before. It's driving me crazy. I even have a hard time relaxing during my daily naps. Yesterday I tried taking a shorter nap to see if it would help, but instead I felt unrested and then when it was time to go to bed I still couldn't relax and it seems like I woke up every couple of hours. I am hoping that this passes because I was really loving it when I would just melt into my bed and sleep so well.
> Lasagne
Posted by Lasagne on June 24, 2003, at 11:02:10
In reply to Re: Thoroughly annoyed at Strattera » Lasagne, posted by gouda on June 24, 2003, at 2:13:07
Lasagne,
>
> Thanks for checking up on me. I'm an ADD - Inattentive Type, so my problem is different from Hyperactives. I cannot focus and get distracted easily.
>
> I'm having the same "cannot relax" problem as you!! I totally feel your annoyance at the sleepiness compounded with being tense!
>
> I'm having the similar problem, I take Strattera at night to help me fall asleep.
>
> However what I run into is ... my mind is racing like 100 mph, I'm obsessively thinking about "things I forgot to do" ... "what I should have said to someone" ... "what I need to get done" ... etc etc ....
>
> My body is calling to me to sleep.
> My mind is calling to me to get up and get stuff done!
>
> Is your "inability to relax" caused by your thoughts as well??
>
> Gouda
>
*********RESPONSE:Hi Gouda:
I find that my tendency to have obsessive thoughts has decreased overall on the Strattera, but since I started having this nighttime sleeplessness I find that I go through spells at night where I go over the conversations I had with others. It seems to happen around 3 a.m. and sometimes lasts for 1-2 hours. Then I finally fall back asleep but my back and shoulders are still tense so I don't sleep very well. I have also noticed that I have dreams where I have some kind of conflict with different people. I wake up and really feel anger toward whoever I had a conflict with in my sleep.
Yesterday I got so sick of feeling so tense while trying to sleep that I called my doctor to see if it was okay for me to take my Flexeril (muscle relaxer again). He told me to take 5 mgs. 3 times a day for a few days to see if my muscle spasms and soreness in my back and shoulders ease up. I was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia about 7 years ago and sometimes go through "flare ups" with the syndrome. Why this is happening right now is a mystery to me. For the first 5 weeks the Strattera had such a calming affect on me and I slept so well. Plus, my stress level dramatically decreased during the last few weeks. Go figure! I usually only flare up during times of extreme emotional stress or exhaustion. Then if I rest my body somehow bounces back and I feel fine.Last night I had to wake up about 2:30 a.m. to take some more muscle relaxer. I did sleep better, but my back was still a little tense. This morning my back still feels out of whack. I am tired but I know if I lay down my back and shoulders will bother me. If I could only sleep standing up!
Posted by Viridis on June 24, 2003, at 20:35:31
In reply to Re: Thoroughly annoyed at Strattera » gouda, posted by Lasagne on June 24, 2003, at 11:02:10
Interesting -- I started Strattera last week, and 25 mg immediately made me feel calmer and more focused. Since going up to 40 mg, I've noticed mild stiffness in my neck and shoulders. I used to get this from tension, and it disappeared with Klonopin. I'm still on that, but I wonder if the Strattera is causing this?
I also feel a bit sick to my stomach and my eyes and mouth are dry. None of these side effects are really pronounced, but I'm quite sure they're from the Strattera, since these aren't things I normally experience.
I'm hoping these will subside, since this seems like a good med otherwise. And maybe 25 mg is enough? I'm going to stay at 40 mg for a while to see if the side effects diminish. They're not debilitating, just annoying, but I'm hesitant to go up any more at this point.
Posted by zeugma on June 24, 2003, at 21:20:52
In reply to Re: Thoroughly annoyed at Strattera » Lasagne, posted by Viridis on June 24, 2003, at 20:35:31
Side effects on Strattera are definitely dose-dependent. At 25 mg I had some dryness of the skin and sun sensitivity which didn't bother me much, similar to what i have experienced on nortriptyline. And some unpleasantly 'wired' feelings after drinking caffeine. Ingesting caffeine caused a lot of muscular tension in my neck and back- are you taking any stimulants with the Strattera? It's strange, on nortriptyline I could drink all the coffee I wanted to- in fact, I HAD to, because nortriptyline didn't touch the core ADHD symptoms. It makes me suspect that Strattera's pharmacology is a little different than advertised. i'm not complaining about it- in fact it is boosting my performance tremendously at work and on my own academic projects, but it is curious that even adding a little Strattera to nortriptyline should have caused so much alertness and sensitivity to stimulants.
Posted by Viridis on June 24, 2003, at 22:43:14
In reply to Re: Thoroughly annoyed at Strattera » Viridis, posted by zeugma on June 24, 2003, at 21:20:52
Thanks -- I take 10 mg/day of Adderall per day as well, so I am using a stimulant with Strattera (totally OK with my pdoc). I use very little caffeine (typically one-two cups of tea and about half a cup of coffee per day). Do you really think this could be causing the side effects? Adderall really helps, so I don't want to discontinue it. But I like the Strattera as well, if the side effects would just go away.
Posted by zeugma on June 24, 2003, at 23:17:44
In reply to Re: Thoroughly annoyed at Strattera » zeugma, posted by Viridis on June 24, 2003, at 22:43:14
> Thanks -- I take 10 mg/day of Adderall per day as well, so I am using a stimulant with Strattera (totally OK with my pdoc). I use very little caffeine (typically one-two cups of tea and about half a cup of coffee per day). Do you really think this could be causing the side effects? Adderall really helps, so I don't want to discontinue it. But I like the Strattera as well, if the side effects would just go away.
Viridis,
I find the timing of caffeine to be key to how I can tolerate. I make a small pot of coffee (about 2+ cups) first thing in the morning, and it's fine. I take the Strattera with breakfast, usually while I'm still drinking the coffee. I've had no problems with that. If I have any more caffeine after that, my back and neck knot up and I get a tension headache and nervousness.
I guess what puzzles me a little (about Strattera) is that it FEELS so much like a stimulant. i haven't taken stims in years, but this seems to have a 'kick' like I'd imagine an amphetamine would. Do you find this also?
The thing is that my pdoc must really like this med- he gave me a YEAR to titrate up to a therapeutic dosage of nortriptyline, and every increase in dosage was my idea. I've been on the Strattera for about five weeks, and I've gone through several sample bottles at steadily-increasing dosages. I was running out of 60mg capsules so I called him and he asked me if I had any 40 mg caps left- he wanted me to try 80 mg. I tried it today and felt really organized at work. The drug seems to have a clarity-inducing effect that I wasn't expecting at all. So I feel that it actually complements the nortriptyline I also take (at night). Its' strange though that two drugs that supposedly have the same mechanism of action should feel subjectively so different. I worry about pharmacological redundancy, but my ADHD is severe enough to put up with a few s/e. Plus there's always fiber capsules to 'help things along.'
Posted by fallsfall on June 25, 2003, at 8:45:45
In reply to Re: Thoroughly annoyed at Strattera » Viridis, posted by zeugma on June 24, 2003, at 23:17:44
I found that each increase in dose increased the side effects, but that they went down over time. Increasing the dose slowly seems to be the key. Eventually they all pretty much go away. Patience!
Posted by Lasagne on June 25, 2003, at 11:04:59
In reply to Re: Thoroughly annoyed at Strattera » Viridis, posted by zeugma on June 24, 2003, at 23:17:44
Hi:
Here is a link you can go to to read about Strattera (whether it is a stimulant).http://www.prozactruth.com/strattera.htm
Just cut and paste this link into your browser if for some reason clicking on it in this post doesn't work.
Lasagne
Posted by beppe3 on June 26, 2003, at 1:11:07
In reply to Re: Thoroughly annoyed at Strattera » zeugma, posted by Lasagne on June 25, 2003, at 11:04:59
> I've followed your trial on Straterra and am wondering if you still find it a tolerable and helpful medication? It sounds like your running into some of the difficulties I ran into early on and withdrew from taking it. Sleep is a very important part to my well being as every human being, but I'm any medication that causes long term insomnia is not for me. Are you still taking your daily dose in the evening/night time?
Take care,
Beppe
Posted by Lasagne on June 26, 2003, at 10:53:19
In reply to Re: Lasagne-Thoroughly annoyed at Strattera, posted by beppe3 on June 26, 2003, at 1:11:07
HI Beppe:
Overall I am pleased with the results I have gotten with the Strattera. I am beginning to think that the initial sleepiness that I got with the Strattera was just a short term side effect. Now that I am on my 7th week all the side effects seem to have gone away.
I have always had problems with sleeping. It's just the way my brain is wired. I have taken Flexeril (a muscle relaxer) in the past to help with my sleep and fibromyalgia. On the verge of going crazy the other day I called my doctor to ask if I could start taking the Flexeril again. What seems to work well for me is 5 mgs. before my nap and 10 mgs. at bedtime. I have had two good nights of rest now and I can't tell you how much better I feel.
I take my Strattera around 7 p.m. each night, 80 mgs. This is definitely a medication that you have to be patient with. There was a time where I was so nauseaous (sp?) and having hot flashes that I wasn't sure I could keep going with the medication, but now all those obnoxious side effects have gone away and I feel clarity in my life. The only thing that I have noticed recently is that I have been a little more irritable. Although, this could be attributed to the fact that I was in pain and didn't sleep well for a whole week before I called the doctor about the Flexeril.
Hope this answered your questions.
Lasagne
Posted by beppe3 on June 26, 2003, at 12:02:15
In reply to Re: Lasagne-Thoroughly annoyed at Strattera » beppe3, posted by Lasagne on June 26, 2003, at 10:53:19
Lasagne-
Yes, You answered my question and thank you for sharing your experience and getting back to me so quickly.
I have more questions if your up to answering them. What's your diagnosis? How long have you been taking medication?I was diagnosed with depression 10 years ago and life hasn't been much different since my diagnosis. Meaning, I was suffering prior to getting help and continue to suffer/struggle. As I'm aging, I'm 35, I'm getting more and more frustrated that doctors claim I don't have to live in misery, yet side effects of medication have been unbearable that I haven't been stable for more than a few months in the past 5 years. Due to my experience, I've become a severe skeptic of doctors and medication. I'm currently taking Lexapro 15mg. at night and another medication unknown to my doc, I will maybe share with you in confidence and have found that this other medication is helping me function.
I've got to get to work, will respond this evening.
How do you include the person's name your responding to in the post?
Thanks,
Beppe
Posted by Lasagne on June 26, 2003, at 13:09:05
In reply to Re: Lasagne-Thoroughly annoyed at Strattera, posted by beppe3 on June 26, 2003, at 12:02:15
Beppe:
When you are on the page where you are posting a new message there is a box you can check right below the Subject box that says: add name of previous poster.
Now for your questions:
As a child I suffered with OCD. When I went away to college I started to have problems with depression in combination with the obsessive thoughts.I have been taking medication since I was 23 years old. At first the doctor put me on Prozac for migraines and depression. I have been on and off Prozac since then. About 3 years ago I began to have problems with anxiety attacks. The doctor put me on Buspar. About 9 months ago with the crazy idea of trying to get pregnant again my doctor recommended that I decrease my Prozac and discontinue the Flexeril. After 7 months of trying with no success I fell into a deep depression. I went back to see my doctor and he had me increase my Prozac from 40mgs to 60mgs. daily. He also did an evaluation on me and determined that I have actually been suffering from ADD since I was a child, and so he put me on the Strattera after I stabilized for a few weeks on the higher dose of Prozac. The doctor thinks that the source of my depression and anxiety is my long undiagnosed ADD. I am now 33 and my new diagnosis makes perfect sense when I look back on my life and the various struggles I have had.
For the most part I have tolerated the medications prescribed to me and they make a remarkable difference in my daily functioning. The main times that I have struggled despite being on medication is when I go through a really stressful period. It seems to undo the chemical benefits the medications are supposed to give. Plus, I noticed that the more children I had (3 boys) that my depression got worse and had to go on a higher dose of Prozac and eventually Buspar too.
I think the Strattera had the worse initial side effects compared to the other meds I have taken. I remember having an initial dry mouth problem with the Prozac and a bit of anxiety. The Buspar didn't seem to have any side effects for me. The Flexeril (muscle relaxer) is a low dose miracle for dealing with my sleep problems and my fibromyalgia.
I can imagine how frustrated you are with not being able to stay stable for long periods of time. My oldest son is very much like you in that it hasn't been easy keeping him stable. He goes through big downturns. It seems to happen every few months and it is torture on everybody in our house. It then takes anywhere from 2 weeks to a month to get him on the right track again.
All I can say is that everybody is so different and so it may be a constant process of going back and forth to your doctor to keep yourself stable. For quite a while we were going in to see our doctor every month until we got my son on the right path. It definitely takes patience, something us ADDer's aren't generally too good at.
Maybe it would help you if you came to think of your treatment as tune ups. Every so often you have to go in to have all the equipment checked and the medication is the lubricant for your brain.
There is a lot of peace when you know what is wrong and you accept it and move on in spite of hurdles. Even people with diabetes have to change their treatment periodically. I know this is easier said than done, but if you make your health your number one priority and quit fighting things, then I think you might find some success.
Well, good luck. E-mail me if you have any more questions.
Lasagne
> Lasagne-
> Yes, You answered my question and thank you for sharing your experience and getting back to me so quickly.
> I have more questions if your up to answering them. What's your diagnosis? How long have you been taking medication?
>
> I was diagnosed with depression 10 years ago and life hasn't been much different since my diagnosis. Meaning, I was suffering prior to getting help and continue to suffer/struggle. As I'm aging, I'm 35, I'm getting more and more frustrated that doctors claim I don't have to live in misery, yet side effects of medication have been unbearable that I haven't been stable for more than a few months in the past 5 years. Due to my experience, I've become a severe skeptic of doctors and medication. I'm currently taking Lexapro 15mg. at night and another medication unknown to my doc, I will maybe share with you in confidence and have found that this other medication is helping me function.
> I've got to get to work, will respond this evening.
> How do you include the person's name your responding to in the post?
> Thanks,
> Beppe
>
Posted by beppe3 on June 26, 2003, at 23:32:57
In reply to Re: Lasagne-Thoroughly annoyed at Strattera » beppe3, posted by Lasagne on June 26, 2003, at 13:09:05
Lasagne-
Once again, thank you, thank you, and thankyou. Your feed back is precious to me. I printed up your reply, because I had a very ard fall today roller balding on my tail bone and I need to get back to lying down and icing. I will read your response again and I'm sure I will have more questions and other things to discuss. When you said email you did you mean respond on this board or did you give me your email address and I just missed it. Have a good nights rest and I will talk to you tomorrow.
Thanks again,
Beppe
Posted by Lasagne on June 27, 2003, at 12:14:27
In reply to Re: Lasagne-Thoroughly annoyed at Strattera » Lasagne, posted by beppe3 on June 26, 2003, at 23:32:57
Hi Beppe:
Yes, feel free to e-mail me directly at
jeffsonya@adelphia.net
I really like this web-site because it allows for support without having to leave your house. Real convenient when you are a stay at home mother.
Glad that sharing my experience with you is helping. I hope you feel better. I tried rollerblading one time and that was the last time. My ankles just aren't strong enough to balance on those things. I can't imagine having a big fall. For sure I would break something. Heck I just slipped and fell on the kitchen floor a few years ago and I sprained my arm bad. It took weeks for it to heal.
Okay, I will look forward to hearing from you.
Sonya/Lasagne
Posted by beppe3 on June 28, 2003, at 0:30:20
In reply to Re: Lasagne-Thoroughly annoyed at Strattera » beppe3, posted by Lasagne on June 27, 2003, at 12:14:27
Thanks for your email address. I will be writing you soon, probably tomorrow.
I agree with you about this site being a great support network even if you can get out to other meetings or groups.
I haven't roller bladed in years and got a little to arrogant after I was warmed up a bit. Anyway, I may have to go to the doctor Monday, because I took a pretty hard hit right above my tail bone and got a very nice street scrub on my elbow.
Despite the fall it was nice to be in the outdoors. When I'm unable to be balanced on meds getting aerobic activity in the outdoors is my saving grace.
I'll be writing soon. Meanwhile have a great weekend and take care.
Beppe
Posted by Viridis on June 28, 2003, at 1:59:02
In reply to Re: Strattera side effects, posted by fallsfall on June 25, 2003, at 8:45:45
Thanks for the advice. I moved from 25 to 40 mg about a week ago, and was experiencing mild nausea, dry mouth and eyes, and stiff neck and shoulders after the dosage increase. But these effects seem to have diminished in the last couple of days, so in a few more days I'll move up to 65 mg. It's definitely a calming, clarity-inducing med for me, and I can live with a few days of mild side effects.
It's very different from SSRIs or Wellbutrin, with which the side effects just never went away for me. So far, I rate Strattera quite highly, and I'm reasonably experienced with psychiatric meds. I'm taking it primarily for ADD and depression, but it also seems to help with anxiety. I also take low daily doses of Klonopin, Adderall, and Neurontin, plus Xanax now and then, and I haven't noticed any interaction of Strattera with these. All in all, it seems like a pretty "gentle" med.
Posted by bookgurl99 on July 8, 2003, at 14:55:57
In reply to Straterra approval., posted by scoper on December 28, 2002, at 2:19:34
Restarting strattera: pdoc has me taking 40 mgs and remaining there for 4 weeks, due to strong reaction (grogginess, agitation) last time.
This time, took a 40 mg. pill, feel -- NOTHING. Nothing at all. Maybe I'll see an effect tomorrow.
Posted by fallsfall on July 8, 2003, at 17:07:51
In reply to re-starting strattera-- Day 1 , posted by bookgurl99 on July 8, 2003, at 14:55:57
Good luck!
I love my Strattera.
You might see if when you do increase if you can do it in 10mg or 18mg increments.
Posted by Viridis on July 9, 2003, at 1:53:26
In reply to re-starting strattera-- Day 1 , posted by bookgurl99 on July 8, 2003, at 14:55:57
The free sample packs that I got from my pdoc each had several 25 mg pills to start with, plus 14 40 mg pills. So, that's made it pretty easy for me to try 25, 40, 50, and 65 mg. It took me a short time to get used to it, but I really like it now (I've only been on it about 3 1/2 weeks). I just asked for a prescription for 60 mg/day, and will see how that goes.
The "target dose" for the average person is supposed to be 80 mg, according to the manufacturer . Interestingly, they don't make that dose, so you'd have to get two expensive prescriptions, or a "double" prescription for the 40 mg version, to achieve that. I can't imagine why...($$$$$???). But individual responses seem to vary tremendously, and around 50-60 mg seems about right for me so far.
Based on my experience and that of some others here, I'd be cautious with dosing and go up in increments -- I had no side effects at 25 mg but noticeable (though not severe) ones at 40 mg. These subsided in about a week though.
Good luck!
Posted by bookgurl99 on July 9, 2003, at 21:58:32
In reply to re-starting strattera-- Day 1 , posted by bookgurl99 on July 8, 2003, at 14:55:57
Does it get any better than this?
Today, took my 40 mgs. Felt totally f'in' depressed. Brain feels slower than usual. The work day, in which I would normally be playing mind games and fooling around to get through the day, went by quickly -- but I feel 'too' calm. Not like myself. I think I may prefer being ADD and having fun to being calm and sad like this.
Also, got a major HEADACHE! Any worries?
Posted by fallsfall on July 10, 2003, at 7:49:59
In reply to Re: re-starting strattera-- Day2, posted by bookgurl99 on July 9, 2003, at 21:58:32
I get headaches sometimes (still - I've been taking it since February). The headaches aren't all the time, but when they occur they are often bad enough that Tylenol isn't enough. I have a prescription pain reliever that is strong enough. Take the Tylenol/whatever when you FIRST feel the headache - don't wait.
It sounds like you are feeling a big mood adjustment. Give it a little time to get used to it before you decide you don't like it. Changes are always weird.
Good luck. The beginning is hard with Strattera, but it can be a really good drug.
Posted by WorryMom on July 10, 2003, at 8:50:20
In reply to Re: Straterra at night ? Other questions..... » froggyanna, posted by zeugma on June 2, 2003, at 22:03:41
I have 2 kids on Strattera for ADHD. I makes them nauseous if not taken with alot of food. Problem is neither of them are very hungry in the morning. Questions is -- have those of you who have switched to taking the med at night found that it decreased the daytime benefits for focusing. Pediatrician says it might be a little more effective for school (daytime) focusing if taken in the morning. He is not sure though drug is so new. Can anyone give advice on this?
Posted by KRM123 on July 10, 2003, at 10:25:34
In reply to Re: re-starting strattera-- Day2, posted by bookgurl99 on July 9, 2003, at 21:58:32
Was this your first day taking the 40mg?? Up it to 60mg or better yet 80mg. I was first taking 25mg but upped it to 80mg and felt much better. I had to stop it because of severe menstrual cramps.
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