![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 40. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 4, 2003, at 10:41:48
Restorative sleep has got to be one of the core elements of my increase in functionality over time. Despite my (unfortunately) significant experience with insomnia, the recent turn of events has still somewhat blind-sided me.
My shrink was giving me temazepam for sleep, for years. It gave me restorative sleep, and I started to recover. For some reason, this winter he suggests that we try using mirtazapine (Remeron) instead. Now, I don't usually meddle with something that's working, but there's sort of a duress situation involved.....I need to be in treatment to maintain my disability status....it's complicated. So, anyway, I go on 30 mg mirtazapine. Immediately, I don't need the temazepam any more. I'm sleeping 9-12 hours a night (I never sleep that much).
In general, however, I'm underwhelmed by Remeron. So, we up the dose to 45 mg. Bang! I'm back to being insomnic, back using temazepam, and I'm impotent as well.
Back to 30 mg Remeron. The sleep doesn't come back (without temazepam). Nor does my potency.
So, a couple weeks ago, we drop the Remeron, and I'm just taking the temazepam. It doesn't work well any more! Or, yet. I hope it's yet.
There are too many confounding variables (like using the highly stimulating NADH and TMG), but I'm certain this is rebound insomnia from discontinuing the Remeron. It mucked me up, good.
I'm not getting restorative sleep right now. I'm grumpy, tired, and my memory sucks. I just wish we'd left well-enough alone.
Lar
Posted by jrbecker on June 4, 2003, at 11:01:39
In reply to rebound insomnia, posted by Larry Hoover on June 4, 2003, at 10:41:48
My guess that its withdrawal from the Remeron that's causing most of your probs now. I had an extremely hard time the first time I withdrew. My doc suggested a taper schedule of only three weeks coming down from 45mg. The first symptom of withdrawal was slight hypomania, then increased anxiety/irritability and sleep disruption, then lower mood affect, then finally GI issues. I actually think it's up there with Effexor in needing to withdrawal from it cautiously, although most docs don't always echo these concerns. A low dose cross-taper onto Prozac helped alleviate most of the issues.
JB
Posted by zenhussy on June 4, 2003, at 11:02:08
In reply to rebound insomnia, posted by Larry Hoover on June 4, 2003, at 10:41:48
> Restorative sleep has got to be one of the core elements of my increase in functionality over time. Despite my (unfortunately) significant experience with insomnia, the recent turn of events has still somewhat blind-sided me.
>
> My shrink was giving me temazepam for sleep, for years. It gave me restorative sleep, and I started to recover. For some reason, this winter he suggests that we try using mirtazapine (Remeron) instead. Now, I don't usually meddle with something that's working, but there's sort of a duress situation involved.....I need to be in treatment to maintain my disability status....it's complicated. So, anyway, I go on 30 mg mirtazapine. Immediately, I don't need the temazepam any more. I'm sleeping 9-12 hours a night (I never sleep that much).
>
> In general, however, I'm underwhelmed by Remeron. So, we up the dose to 45 mg. Bang! I'm back to being insomnic, back using temazepam, and I'm impotent as well.
>
> Back to 30 mg Remeron. The sleep doesn't come back (without temazepam). Nor does my potency.
>
> So, a couple weeks ago, we drop the Remeron, and I'm just taking the temazepam. It doesn't work well any more! Or, yet. I hope it's yet.
>
> There are too many confounding variables (like using the highly stimulating NADH and TMG), but I'm certain this is rebound insomnia from discontinuing the Remeron. It mucked me up, good.
>
> I'm not getting restorative sleep right now. I'm grumpy, tired, and my memory sucks. I just wish we'd left well-enough alone.
>
> Lar
Damn Larry,Sorry to hear it. Temazepam was drug of choice of pdocs for years in my life. I didn't need it nightly nor monthly but when insomnia struck temazepam was the one to knock it out. I had to discontinue it due to waking overly grogged and ill physically. Bummer since I haven't found anything quite as effective (I think because temazepam doesn't tweak with REM sleep if I recall) and I've run through a bunch.
Hang in there Lar. I will light a candle for sleep for you. Chant? Whatever it takes consider it done.
zenhussy
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 4, 2003, at 11:10:55
In reply to Re: rebound insomnia, posted by jrbecker on June 4, 2003, at 11:01:39
> My guess that its withdrawal from the Remeron that's causing most of your probs now. I had an extremely hard time the first time I withdrew. My doc suggested a taper schedule of only three weeks coming down from 45mg. The first symptom of withdrawal was slight hypomania, then increased anxiety/irritability and sleep disruption, then lower mood affect, then finally GI issues. I actually think it's up there with Effexor in needing to withdrawal from it cautiously, although most docs don't always echo these concerns. A low dose cross-taper onto Prozac helped alleviate most of the issues.
>
>
> JBMy pdoc said no withdrawal/taper required. I went cold turkey. Doh!
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 4, 2003, at 11:17:55
In reply to Re: rebound insomnia » Larry Hoover, posted by zenhussy on June 4, 2003, at 11:02:08
> Damn Larry,
>
> Sorry to hear it. Temazepam was drug of choice of pdocs for years in my life. I didn't need it nightly nor monthly but when insomnia struck temazepam was the one to knock it out. I had to discontinue it due to waking overly grogged and ill physically. Bummer since I haven't found anything quite as effective (I think because temazepam doesn't tweak with REM sleep if I recall) and I've run through a bunch.It changes the ratio of the sleep stages, putting more into Stage 3, which is a major component of the "restorative" concept. It quite comfortably helped my sleep. I took it every night, for years, and it still worked.
> Hang in there Lar. I will light a candle for sleep for you. Chant? Whatever it takes consider it done.
>
> zenhussyThank you. I feel comforted.
Lar
Posted by jemma on June 4, 2003, at 13:27:40
In reply to Re: rebound insomnia » zenhussy, posted by Larry Hoover on June 4, 2003, at 11:17:55
Hi Larry -
I'm sorry you're going through insomnia right now. A long time ago, I was addicted to benzos, culminating in an od attempt with benzos and barbituates. The rebound insomnia kept me sleeping less than 4 hours a night for about six months. But eventually I got back to 8 hours.
Things that helped - meditation tapes, in a tape recorder by my bed; aerobic exercise in the day; deep breathing. Probably the most effective tool, one I still use, was memorizing several poems and prayers I found comforting - Emily Dickenson, Wallace Stevens, and especially the 23rd psalm (St. James version, of course). I would mentally recite them and was often asleep before the end of the first one. The psalm especially is about letting go and relaxing into the bosom of god, the universe, whatever.
On a more biochemical note, maybe you could try Remeron at 15 mg. At that dose, it acts almost purely as an antihistamine and is sedating. Even 30 mg is too activating for a lot of people. I think the reason sleep docs love it is that it actually restores good sleep architecture, unlike benzos which repress REM and deep sleep. Also, serzone worked for me like a hammer over the head when I was having trouble sleeping because of a herniated disk.
These days, I tend to rely on very-low-dose melatonin. Even at .375 mg (1/8th a 3 mg. pill), I find it very effective. It's also a powerful antioxidant and is quite neuroprotective, so I think of it as a supplement, not a drug. It's effect is potentiated, by the way, by B6. On a really bad night, I might augment with benedryl or gravol, and that combo (melatonin, B6, and benedryl) totally knocks me out. And, speaking as a recovering alcoholic/addict, it is completely non-habit-forming.
By the way, I do find that NADH makes sleeping harder for me. I use it very sparingly, when I feel depression creeping up on me. Magnesium can also be mildly activating if it isn't balanced by enough calcium, which is mildly sedating. The niacinamide, though, should be mildly sedating. But of course, you know far more about all this than I do.
Good luck getting the rest you need. And thank you for all the information you've provided, much of which I've capitalized on. Niacinamide is a real discovery, especially for its neuroprotective qualities.
Take care -
Jemma
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 4, 2003, at 14:00:05
In reply to Re: rebound insomnia » zenhussy, posted by Larry Hoover on June 4, 2003, at 11:17:55
> It changes the ratio of the sleep stages, putting more into Stage 3, which is a major component of the "restorative" concept. It quite comfortably helped my sleep. I took it every night, for years, and it still worked.I should elaborate on that, just so there's no confusion....
I get an increase in deeper sleep, because I don't think I was getting much, if any, before I was medicated.
In healthy people (whatever that means), temazepam decreases REM sleep (dreaming) and stages 3 and 4 (deep, restorative sleep). You get an increase in stage 2, which comprises the bulk of the sleep period for most people, anyway.
Your brain may vary. Mine certainly does. <wry grin>
Lar
Posted by johnj on June 4, 2003, at 16:36:19
In reply to Re: rebound insomnia, posted by Larry Hoover on June 4, 2003, at 14:00:05
Lar,
I had this same problems one year ago. Remeron was causing brain fog and sponge brain. I even tried up to 45 mg and it was bad. I went down over 6 days or so from 30 to 15 to 7.5 to 3.25. I had a great week and then anxiety. I had to increase my benzo to get help. For me, it is too hard at being patient and waiting it out. Maybe in the end you may need to increase your benzo, not the best choice, but give it time and see.
Now I am on 15 mg and will eventually go off, but will taper down slower. Like you sleep is a must in my mental health and the last year hasn't been a great one. Keep us posted and hang in there.
johnj
Posted by Squiggles on June 4, 2003, at 20:27:57
In reply to rebound insomnia, posted by Larry Hoover on June 4, 2003, at 10:41:48
Just as a very unprofessional rule of
thumb, i've found that if the cause of
a w/d symptom, such as insomnia, is a
result of too fast or too much a cut of
your drug, it may help to go back to the
original dose, and start cutting much
slower.I know that worked in the initial stages
of benzos (initial is important because there
is a point of no return when you progress)
but i am not sure if it would work with
ADs - it did with lithium in my case but
lithium is atypical and i went back on it
as quickly as i started to feel bad.Squiggles
Posted by judy1 on June 4, 2003, at 22:49:05
In reply to rebound insomnia, posted by Larry Hoover on June 4, 2003, at 10:41:48
15mg of remeron was sedating for me also (30 was too much), can you try taking that dose? good luck, judy
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 5, 2003, at 8:15:08
In reply to rebound insomnia, posted by Larry Hoover on June 4, 2003, at 10:41:48
> So, a couple weeks ago, we drop the Remeron, and I'm just taking the temazepam. It doesn't work well any more! Or, yet. I hope it's yet.
Even though I'm two weeks into cold-turkey withdrawal, I decided to take 1/4 tab of mirtazapine (more or less, 7.5 mg), along with the temazepam, last night.
I feel a &@/% of a lot better, today. I could have slept a lot longer, but I had to set the alarm for a morning appointment.
Thanks for the support I received.
Lar
Posted by zenhussy on June 5, 2003, at 9:45:50
In reply to Re: update, posted by Larry Hoover on June 5, 2003, at 8:15:08
> > So, a couple weeks ago, we drop the Remeron, and I'm just taking the temazepam. It doesn't work well any more! Or, yet. I hope it's yet.
>
> Even though I'm two weeks into cold-turkey withdrawal, I decided to take 1/4 tab of mirtazapine (more or less, 7.5 mg), along with the temazepam, last night.
>
> I feel a &@/% of a lot better, today. I could have slept a lot longer, but I had to set the alarm for a morning appointment.
>
> Thanks for the support I received.
>
> Lar
You betcha Lar. Sucks not to sleep. That almost anyone can identify with. You're fortunate to have the knowledge of which rxs to mix within limits to achieve the right kind of boost.Well done and sleep away!
zenh.
Posted by johnj on June 5, 2003, at 13:18:12
In reply to Re: update, posted by Larry Hoover on June 5, 2003, at 8:15:08
Good to hear things are better Larry. I wish I would have done that instead of bump my benzo up last year.
I am also better since I went down from 30 to 15 mg. I had two bad nights and a so so 3rd and since they have been pretty steady. Not near as much head pressure since I went down. Do you experience any other side effects from remeron? I found sexual dysfunction is better on 15 than 30. At 30 it was dead "fred". I don't see how this helps ssri induced SD??? Then again, nothings seems to be the norm for me.
Now, if I could just get off the dreaded TCA. But, I am now smart enought now to wait for a longer period of improvement before I try to tweak anything. Things I have learned from you :)
Pleasant dreams Lar
I could have slept longer today but my wifes alarm woke me...better that than staring at it from 5 am on!
johnj
Posted by disney4 on June 5, 2003, at 20:51:01
In reply to Re: update, posted by Larry Hoover on June 5, 2003, at 8:15:08
Hi Larry,
I had the same sort of thing happen when I tried Wellbutrin again. I did continue my other meds, but they stopped working and in fact started doing exactly the oppisite of what they usually did. Instead of being calming, they made me anxious and added to the insomnia. I was up for 3 nights in a row, and finally my Dr had me take extra klonopin to knock me out. Gradually my system returned to normal and my meds are acting in their usual way. I felt just like you did. I wished the Dr had left well enough alone, and I was very depressed. I think it will take some time, but your medication will work well again. Hang in there. Elsie
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 6, 2003, at 12:15:39
In reply to Re: update » Larry Hoover, posted by johnj on June 5, 2003, at 13:18:12
> Good to hear things are better Larry. I wish I would have done that instead of bump my benzo up last year.
Let go of regret, buddy. It doesn't help you now.
> I am also better since I went down from 30 to 15 mg. I had two bad nights and a so so 3rd and since they have been pretty steady.
Try and resist the urge to "micro-manage" what's happening. Everybody has up and down days. Trends are what's really happening, IMHO.
>Not near as much head pressure since I went down. Do you experience any other side effects from remeron?
Far more side-effects in withdrawal than during the course of treatment, though impotency is unacceptable to me at any point in time.
>I found sexual dysfunction is better on 15 than 30. At 30 it was dead "fred". I don't see how this helps ssri induced SD??? Then again, nothings seems to be the norm for me.
Only discovered by doing the experiment.
I was talking to my counsellor yesterday about my Remeron withdrawal experience. He made a good point; I had taken drug withdrawal advice from someone (my shrink) who had never gone through it himself. I had been kind of kicking myself for "being so stupid" as to have believed that I could just go cold turkey. Whatever. I did it that way, learned from it, and I'm moving on.
> Now, if I could just get off the dreaded TCA. But, I am now smart enought now to wait for a longer period of improvement before I try to tweak anything. Things I have learned from you :)I'm glad to hear you're developing more patience. That's good news. I'm glad I've helped.
> Pleasant dreams Lar
>
> I could have slept longer today but my wifes alarm woke me...better that than staring at it from 5 am on!
>
> johnjOne day at a time, bud.
Lar
Posted by Ron Hill on June 8, 2003, at 9:34:04
In reply to Re: update, posted by Larry Hoover on June 5, 2003, at 8:15:08
Hey Lar,
Did you sleep well last night? I'm cheering for you my friend. And I’ve prayed.
This Remeron deal was not your fault. Keep your positive thoughts flowing and, thereby, continue to nurture your positive attitude.
This too shall pass. You're a smart guy; you'll solve this problem.
I send to you my very best wishes.
-- Ron
---------------------------------
> > So, a couple weeks ago, we drop the Remeron, and I'm just taking the temazepam. It doesn't work well any more! Or, yet. I hope it's yet.
>
> Even though I'm two weeks into cold-turkey withdrawal, I decided to take 1/4 tab of mirtazapine (more or less, 7.5 mg), along with the temazepam, last night.
>
> I feel a &@/% of a lot better, today. I could have slept a lot longer, but I had to set the alarm for a morning appointment.
>
> Thanks for the support I received.
>
> Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 9, 2003, at 10:32:38
In reply to Re: update » Larry Hoover, posted by Ron Hill on June 8, 2003, at 9:34:04
> Hey Lar,
>
> Did you sleep well last night? I'm cheering for you my friend. And I’ve prayed.Thanks. I do appreciate the support. I can feel it from here.
> This Remeron deal was not your fault. Keep your positive thoughts flowing and, thereby, continue to nurture your positive attitude.
Slipping into self-blame is almost an aspect of the disruption itself, a sign of the intensity of the disturbance. Once I'm aware that I'm doing that, I'm already 90% to solving it.
> This too shall pass. You're a smart guy; you'll solve this problem.I can already feel the difference that re-starting a tiny dose of Remeron has caused. It's taken the "edge" off, and the temazepam is coming back on stream.
I'm sensing my "slump" symptoms right now....quite interesting that work didn't trigger this process, but sleep disruption did. I don't anticipate a big slump, but time will tell. And, it provides a convenient opportunity to test the direct effect of NADH/TMG on acute slump symptoms. Up until now, I can only say that it seemed to be prophylactic.
> I send to you my very best wishes.
>
> -- RonThanks, buddy. I think I'm already over the hump.
Lar
Posted by Ron Hill on June 9, 2003, at 16:18:53
In reply to Re: update (insomnia) » Ron Hill, posted by Larry Hoover on June 9, 2003, at 10:32:38
Larry,
> I'm sensing my "slump" symptoms right now....quite interesting that work didn't trigger this process, but sleep disruption did. I don't anticipate a big slump, but time will tell. And, it provides a convenient opportunity to test the direct effect of NADH/TMG on acute slump symptoms. Up until now, I can only say that it seemed to be prophylactic.
Please post your results with regard to whether or not the Enada NADH/TMG supplements pull you out of your current CFS slump.
> I think I'm already over the hump.
Glad to hear it. I assume you plan to eventually wean yourself off of the Remeron completely.
-- Ron
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 9, 2003, at 18:25:58
In reply to Re: update (insomnia) » Larry Hoover, posted by Ron Hill on June 9, 2003, at 16:18:53
> Larry,
>
> > I'm sensing my "slump" symptoms right now....quite interesting that work didn't trigger this process, but sleep disruption did. I don't anticipate a big slump, but time will tell. And, it provides a convenient opportunity to test the direct effect of NADH/TMG on acute slump symptoms. Up until now, I can only say that it seemed to be prophylactic.
>
> Please post your results with regard to whether or not the Enada NADH/TMG supplements pull you out of your current CFS slump.I went back to a little bit of the "saturation" mode, taking 5 mg two days in a row (with 1 gram TMG). This has helped a lot.
> > I think I'm already over the hump.
>
> Glad to hear it. I assume you plan to eventually wean yourself off of the Remeron completely.The reintroduction of the Remeron was to make "the hump" smaller, by reducing the intensity of the withdrawal symptoms. If I might project into the future, I might take another 1/4 tablet after a few days. I'm hoping to not have to.
> -- RonThanks for caring.
Lar
Posted by Boba Fat on June 10, 2003, at 3:48:48
In reply to Re: update (insomnia) » Ron Hill, posted by Larry Hoover on June 9, 2003, at 18:25:58
I've followed this thread with interest. My problem with sleep was that it used to take me hours to get off. No matter how tired I was I would be tossing and turning. I was also a waker, I would wake 7 or 8 times, sometimes bolt upright - wide awake over a 5-6 hour 'sleep'. My other problem was occasional sleep paralysis and regular nightmares. Over the years my doctors have been reluctant to prescribe sleep aids and I have had to rely on Valerian, chamomile tea and warm milk - not the greatest sleep aids for someone with serious sleep problems. Recently since giving up most alcohol and stimulants I have had tons of energy which has manifested my problems into true insomnia. I concur that lack of sleep worsens anxiety and mood so I sought a solution. My doctor would only prescribe dothiepin but this only helped marginally. After only a few weeks stopped working at all. I had to stop taking it anyway because of the e-numbers, lactose and wheat starch it contained (because of my pesky diet) but it was neither helping my depression or sleep anyway. Now I rely on self medicated Klonopin, Diphenhydramine, codeine and the old Valerian and chamomile, often combining all five. This isn't a permanant solution though as I don't want to become tolerant or dependant to klonopin as I would rather save it for social anxiety and panic attacks (it is also expensive). There is a risk of tolerance with Diphenhydramine with long term use and the problems with possible codeine addiction are scary. The valerian and chamomile on their own just don't cut it though. I am interested in melatonin but it is not available here in England so I would have to mail order it (don't worry Bob, I won't ask where I can get it though! ;) ). Anyway that is my story. Sorry about the length but I just thought I would add my 2 cents to this interesting and relevant thread.
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 10, 2003, at 7:05:00
In reply to Re: update (insomnia), posted by Boba Fat on June 10, 2003, at 3:48:48
> I've followed this thread with interest. My problem with sleep was that it used to take me hours to get off. No matter how tired I was I would be tossing and turning. I was also a waker, I would wake 7 or 8 times, sometimes bolt upright - wide awake over a 5-6 hour 'sleep'. My other problem was occasional sleep paralysis and regular nightmares. Over the years my doctors have been reluctant to prescribe sleep aids and I have had to rely on Valerian, chamomile tea and warm milk - not the greatest sleep aids for someone with serious sleep problems.
No kidding! What is wrong with your friggin' doctors?
I'll tell you, without a shred of doubt, that getting my sleep back to being restorative was the turning point in my own struggle with mood.
>Recently since giving up most alcohol and stimulants I have had tons of energy which has manifested my problems into true insomnia. I concur that lack of sleep worsens anxiety and mood so I sought a solution. My doctor would only prescribe dothiepin but this only helped marginally. After only a few weeks stopped working at all. I had to stop taking it anyway because of the e-numbers, lactose and wheat starch it contained (because of my pesky diet) but it was neither helping my depression or sleep anyway.
I don't understand these e-numbers. You've mentioned them before.
>Now I rely on self medicated Klonopin, Diphenhydramine, codeine and the old Valerian and chamomile, often combining all five. This isn't a permanant solution though as I don't want to become tolerant or dependant to klonopin as I would rather save it for social anxiety and panic attacks (it is also expensive). There is a risk of tolerance with Diphenhydramine with long term use and the problems with possible codeine addiction are scary. The valerian and chamomile on their own just don't cut it though. I am interested in melatonin but it is not available here in England so I would have to mail order it (don't worry Bob, I won't ask where I can get it though! ;) ). Anyway that is my story. Sorry about the length but I just thought I would add my 2 cents to this interesting and relevant thread.
It's totally relevant. What I don't understand is the attitude of your doctors. You're forced to resort to inadequate alternatives with possible long-term adverse effects.
Here's my slant on benzos for sleep (e.g. temazepam). I think the situation is analogous to opiate use in chronic pain. If the correct dose of the correct opiate is chosen, the pain sufferer experiences no psychogenic effects, but merely a relief from pain. Rather than becoming addicted, these individuals experience a substantial increase in functionality, and do not experience tolerance.
I do believe it's the same with benzos for sleep disorders, at least for me. I have been on a stable dose for years, and it's the same dose I started at. No tolerance has developed. It remains effective for me. I'm not addicted to it, or dependent on it (I went off it in the winter when I started a trial of Remeron, and I went cold turkey).
Have you asked what your doctor's reticence in prescribing hypnotics arises from? I don't understand it.
Lar
Posted by Boba Fat on June 10, 2003, at 7:51:35
In reply to Re: update (insomnia) » Boba Fat, posted by Larry Hoover on June 10, 2003, at 7:05:00
The situation with e-numbers.
Many artificial colourings, preservatives and sweeteners are known to be the cause of ADD, ADHD, Depression and Anxiety in some people. Also wheat starch contained in some meds can cause depressive illness to those with a wheat intolerance or allergy. I am currently doing an exclusion (allergy diet) to see if cutting out these things will help with my mental problems. The problem is that meds for ADD, Depression, Anxiety and Allergy contain E-numbers that some people are sensitive to, thus causing the exact problem that the medication is supposed to be helping you for. Ironic, huh?
The situations with doctors and hypnotics.
UK Doctors won't prescribe them, simple as that. The hysteria over possible sedative abuse and dependance and the worry of legal action taken because someone has become addicted to them means they will not prescribe them. In my experience - and I have seen many GP's and Psychiatrists, the only things doctors are prepared to prescribe for sleep are trycylics or antihistamines but even then with great reluctance. Most British doctors will not prescribe benzo's for love nor money.
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 10, 2003, at 8:27:38
In reply to Re: update (insomnia), posted by Boba Fat on June 10, 2003, at 7:51:35
> The situation with e-numbers.
I could have just googled it myself.....the reason I've never heard of this concept is because it is an initiative of the EU, under the auspices of WHO.
It doesn't exist in North America, but it would be a useful tool for the consumer, no doubt.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 10, 2003, at 8:30:23
In reply to Re: update (insomnia), posted by Boba Fat on June 10, 2003, at 7:51:35
> The situations with doctors and hypnotics.
>
> UK Doctors won't prescribe them, simple as that.
> Most British doctors will not prescribe benzo's for love nor money.
>I just checked the BNF (British National Formulary), and these two non-benzodiazepine hypnotics are available.
zolpidem (Stilnoct)
zopiclone (Zimovane, Zileze)Lar
Posted by disney4 on June 10, 2003, at 10:55:26
In reply to Re: update (insomnia) » Boba Fat, posted by Larry Hoover on June 10, 2003, at 8:30:23
>
>
> > The situations with doctors and hypnotics.
> >
> > UK Doctors won't prescribe them, simple as that.
> > Most British doctors will not prescribe benzo's for love nor money.
> >
>
> I just checked the BNF (British National Formulary), and these two non-benzodiazepine hypnotics are available.
>
> zolpidem (Stilnoct)
> zopiclone (Zimovane, Zileze)
>
> Lar
>
> Hi Larry,Are these two non-benzodiazepene hypnotics available in the US? I take a small dose of klonopin and Neurontin to help with disruptive sleep and bipolar disorder, yet I still start off the night in a trance like partially aware state for at least an hour.
I am happy to hear your temazepam is starting to work for you again. How does this med differ from klonopin?
Elsie
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