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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 619 to 643 of 1242. Go back in thread:
Posted by froggyanna on May 22, 2003, at 16:11:19
In reply to Re: Glad To Find This Group -- Starting Straterra » froggyanna, posted by bookgurl99 on May 22, 2003, at 8:08:30
Hi Books!
> Otherwise, how would I, a health-conscious
> 27-year-old, be having the same symptoms as
> a 51-year-old?Well, y'know, the thing is: looking back on my life, I was developing these problems even back then, if not already experiencing them. I snored heavily as a teenager. I was ALWAYS tired. I certainly experienced many symptoms (I know now) of ADD. I had my first baby at 27. Before that, I underwent several years of diet and other therapies for hypoglycemia. I lost severe amounts of weight on a low-carb diet. It was actually almost a NO-carb diet! When I became pregnant, I gradually started re-introducing potatoes and breads to my diet, without a problem. Over the years, because of several life changes (including divorce), I gradually lost my "will" to follow a strict diet and became a junk-food couch potato. Then I "discovered" my depression, or at least I discovered treatment for it. Then I became caught up in the fight to earn a decent living as a single mother. With everything going on to deal with, nutrition took a back seat in my priorities. Through many other changes, I eventually went through menopause, and then I lost my last job, and that's when the symptoms of ADD seemed to become the most prominent problem, and that's where I am now.
> Your symptoms blow me away, as I'm only 27
> and am also hypothyroid. My psychiatrist wants
> me to be tested for sleep apnea. (I snore a
> lot.) I've just gotten off Zoloft after a year
> (BTW, the zoloft made it _much_ harder to
> concentrate.) And -- since becoming
> hypothyroid -- I'm developing symptoms of ADD.Good for your doctor for recognizing the possibility of sleep apnea. I would be very interested to hear how that goes for you if you decide to do it. Also, I would ask him or her about the use of Buspar (I take buspirone, the generic, actually) in reducing and/or eliminating the apnea. My particular doc has done a LOT of clinical work with it, and I would be glad to give you his name. The jury is still out as to whether it is really useful for me or not. I have my sleep study Monday night. They will "measure" me for half the night, and if I need the CPAP treatment they will titrate the correct air pressure the rest of the night. I'll let you know how that goes.
As for the zoloft.... my problems with depression were quite severe throughout my life. I am now able to tell exactly when my brain is going there, and it goes there if I'm not on medication for a few days. Because of that, I'm not as aware of any direct effect it might have on my ability to concentrate. I'm just so grateful that I don't "go there" anymore!
> To be honest, from my perspective, these
> symptoms almost all boil down to the thyroid,
> as thyroid can exacerbate weight gain (hence
> sleep apnea) and memory problems.You may very possibly be right. A good friend of mine recently told me about the importance of T3, and my internist told me that T3 tends to be the "kicker" for people to boost them over to really optimal functioning. I'll see him again in a couple of weeks and we'll discuss the results of my blood tests then.
What I know about myself and the possibility that it's the unbalanced thyroid that is causing the ADD is this: I know now that I had ADD as a kid. I was VERY bright in school, so as a sweet little girl, of course, I was overlooked. That sweet little girl became a sullen, lonely, pathologically shy teenager as a result of my parents' divorce, deaths in the family, etc. I had one shoplifting experience as a 19-year-old, and I could never figure out why I did it. I know now that it was sheer impulse with no reason. It was the ADD. I came "this close" to being arrested, but was not. This was after dropping out of high school because I just couldn't deal with it. I could not figure out why it was so difficult for me to just get by. All I knew was that I couldn't function in the social situations, I couldn't concentrate on the school work, and my mother and the counselors at school were absolutely useless to me. I slipped through the cracks. I was very angry. My mother used to use psychiatric treatment as a threat instead of as a loving solution to my problems. I remember her saying to me, "If you don't shape up, I'm going to take you to a psychiatrist!" I have no way of knowing at this point whether my thyroid was unbalanced at that time.
Through sheer grace, and being an optimist at the very core of my personality, and despite my anger, I managed to grow a very interesting, loving, fulfilling life through the maturation process. Lots of ups and downs but overall pretty good. I forgave my parents. I raised two great daughters and they have moved successfully through the college experience. One graduated with honors from the University of Southern California and the other will be spending her junior year in Japan as a student at Lewis and Clark College in Oregon. I just always had this underlying sense of never being able to achieve anything great FOR MYSELF. Too many ideas and no results. Too many struggles with job performance.
> When I tried Straterra recently, it made me
> very sleepy the first 2 days and very talkative
> the last day. I didn't like the feeling of
> being out of balance, and stopped.From the messages I've read on here, it appears that it's a good idea to give the drug a couple of weeks to see if it has a positive impact on the ADD or if the side effects settle down. But I definitely know how you feel in not wanting to wait it out. At this point, I don't know how it'll turn out for me. As I write this, it has been approximately 2 hours since my very first dose of 40mg, along with my other meds, on an empty stomach. I've been sitting for most of the time. I am experiencing a very slight sense of queasiness, not too drastic. I am also experiencing a slight sense of dizzyness, but again, it's only subtle. These are feelings that I sometimes have *without* medication!
It remains to be seen if I stick with the Straterra, if I stick with the Buspar, if I add T3 to the mix, or if I don't need to sleep with a CPAP machine any more. To be perfectly honest, THAT is one of my fervent hopes in this! My apnea is severe enough that that might not be possible, but I sure would love not to have to do that.
One last thought: thanks for the good wishes. Being unemployed, health insurance is a real problem for me. I have it, but it's meager. I will have to make a decision between health care and food at some point. My husband's employment does not provide me with insurance and we are in the process of selling our house to move to something less expensive, due to my inability to look for and find work. I told him that since I discovered that I have ADD, I am going to have to deal with it and get treatment for it before I throw myself into the ring again for the last few years of my working life. I really am hoping that this is a new beginning for me!!
Regards,
froggyanna
Posted by froggyanna on May 22, 2003, at 16:37:17
In reply to Atomoxetine (Straterra) » froggyanna, posted by paulk on May 22, 2003, at 8:24:04
> It just doesn’t seem responsible to start any
> med before your thyroid tests are back. It's
> just the humble opinion of a doctor’s kid, but
> if you turn out to be hypothyroid a combination
> of synthroid and Ctomel may be all you need. To
> start the med before the test results are in
> confounds the variables.You'll have to read my response to Books to see that I have had ADD for most of my life AND I have been taking thyroid medication for years. I am fairly certain that being hypothyroid exacerbates the condition, but it does not *cause* it. Perhaps the addition of Cytomel will be very helpful for me -- I'll see the doctor in a couple of weeks to discuss the results.
> There is a lot of pressure for a doctor to make
> their patient happy, by sending them home with
> a prescription, but I think it would have been
> wise to have such a patient wait the two days
> it takes to get the test result back.Believe me..... I am NOT the kind of patient who just wants to be "happy"!! I am very thoughtful and deliberate about considering what kinds of substances I put into my body. I have also spent a lifetime looking deeply into my experiences and trying to learn as much as I can. I think you need to be a little more cautious in jumping to conclusions and assuming that someone who posts here has not done their homework.
> The thyroid test is much more objective and
> accurate than a psychological test.Perhaps, but human beings are very complex and what works for one may not work for another. I appreciate your concern, but it's misplaced. As I said in my message to Books, the outcome of this all remains to be seen, and hey, if it turns out that I don't need to take anything except Levoxyl and Cytomel in order to overcome years of frustration and lack of achievement, then I'll be happy about that!
Regards,
froggyanna
Posted by bookgurl99 on May 22, 2003, at 16:42:04
In reply to Re: Glad To Find This Group -- Starting Straterra, posted by froggyanna on May 22, 2003, at 16:11:19
Hey froggy,
how cool that your dr. called T3 a 'kicker.' very neat. i wonder if my docs have been more resistant to putting me on it because i'm young?
it's nice that the add dx might be able to help you figure out how to solve the puzzle of yourself in some way. at least it can help you to forgive yourself for disappointing yourself in some ways -- and give you new hope for the future.
i notice from your posts that you're a very evocative and detailed writer. have you ever done any writing? it seems to me that once you have your health concerns battened down, you are going to take off and make a great employee for someone (or even yourself).
books
Posted by froggyanna on May 22, 2003, at 17:11:31
In reply to Re: Glad To Find This Group -- Starting Straterra » froggyanna, posted by bookgurl99 on May 22, 2003, at 16:42:04
> Hey froggy,
>
> how cool that your dr. called T3 a 'kicker.'
> very neat. i wonder if my docs have been more
> resistant to putting me on it because i'm
> young?Hey Books,
Yeah, I really liked his explanation of that! :-) It really spoke to me, man!! :-) It certainly makes me eager to try it, especially since a friend of mine was also so enthusiastic about its effect on her. As for why age would be an issue in prescribing it, my personal opinion is that it probably has more to do with lack of awareness. I saw a doctor last year who I thought would be really great from his description on his website. He is affiliated with a "holistic" group and I thought this would be a great place to get "holistic" treatment. Wrong. He showed very little interest in my thyroid treatment and from looking at my records, he never even tested me for T3! He actually showed very little interest in ME, as well. My symptoms went from bad to worse, and because of money worries, I am only now attempting to get medical help again. So there's a doctor for whom age did not appear to be an issue. My NEW doctor has a sense of humor, he shares his own experiences with medicines, and he seems up on the latest treatments. We really hit it off, and sometimes I think THAT is more important than medicine!
> it's nice that the add dx might be able to help
> you figure out how to solve the puzzle of
> yourself in some way. at least it can help you
> to forgive yourself for disappointing yourself
> in some ways -- and give you new hope for the
> future.Yeah!! I have had years of psychological counseling and I have also engaged in regular mediTAtion. I hope to be able to get to the root of this problem and yeah, renew my hope for the next phase of my life!
> i notice from your posts that you're a very
> evocative and detailed writer. have you ever
> done any writing? it seems to me that once you
> have your health concerns battened down, you
> are going to take off and make a great employee
> for someone (or even yourself).Thank you, Books! I have worked for years as a production editor in technical publications. I do enjoy writing, but I would not want to be a technical writer. I am looking for a new path. I have actually always wanted to be self employed, but because of the problems with ADD (that I didn't even know about until recently), I have never had the "will" and the focus to commit to something like that. I am thinking about retaining the services of an ADD Coach, at least occasionally while I get on my feet and can't afford too much help, and I even joked with someone that I would write a book called "How my ADD Coach Helped Me To Write This Book"!
I've always been involved, career-wise, in some aspect of publishing, first as a typesetter, and later as a production editor. As a kid, I had my own little rubber stamp "press." I've taken courses in web design. I just have never been able to focus and pull anything together for myself. I sure wish I could start over again, and maybe that's what the ADD drugs will help me do, whether it's the Straterra, or a stimulant, or even getting my thyroid in balance. Thanks again for your kind words....
Regards,
froggy
Posted by comorbid? on May 22, 2003, at 22:03:18
In reply to Re: Mirapex » PuraVida, posted by Magpie on April 8, 2003, at 2:48:59
Hi PV and Magpie
I was surfing along, looking for info about Strattera - atomoxetine - and ran across your thread. My doctor mentioned Stattera to me today and suggested I look into it, give it some consideration, to see what I thought. I have attention issues and he thought it possible that it might help. Yes, he and I have a pretty trusting relationship. I tell him what I do, and he lays out the info.
In my case, the current diagnosis is childhood-onset bipolar, type 2, seasonal, with rapid (ultra-ultra-rapid) cycling. I'm a 42-year old male, and have had the symptoms since early childhood (or as far back as I can remember; hard to say when exactly). I originally sought treatment for depression, about 10 years ago, and was on SSRIs (zoloft and prozac) for almost eight years, and two doctors.
I went back to school three years ago, to finish the BA I'd never completed. During the time I was in school, I had terrible problems with my mood, and a range of ADHD symptoms. I had hoped that my bad study habits would be a thing of the past, but the problem was still there.
I finally sought psychiatric help. Psychometric testing revealed ADHD, Inattention subtype, with hyperactive features; I met all nine criteria for attention deficit, and four out of nine for hyperactivity.
But, referring back to the above, my new psychiatrist refused to prescribe stimulants, because he felt they might induce mania. This despite the fact that I have only experienced hypomania, never full-blown mania, and never psychosis. Needless to say, I found this frustrating.
For the past year, I've been prescribed Lamictal - lamotrigine - an anti-convulsant that anecdotal evidence suggests may be useful in mood stabilization. At the time that he prescribed this drug, my doc also took me off Prozac, which he said might exacerbate my rapid mood-cycling (I appear to have a very unstable serotonin level, affected strongly by light exposure, alcohol, marijuana, you name it).
The Lamictal has been very helpful in relieving my physical symptoms - akathisia - chronic stress-induced back spasm, restlessness, and an internal situation that's hard to describe but feels like my guts are clenched. Very helpful; these problems are mostly gone.
However, it has not had any great influence on my mood swings; last autumn, which season is usually my worst due to falling light levels, was absolutely horrible, my worst in a decade. I was at wits' end with the mood swings and did some crazy things that I regret. In previous years the Prozac had somewhat helped with this, by keeping my mood from going too low, and without it I was going from hypomania to severe depression daily, sometimes twice and three times a day. Profoundly disruptive, hugely anxiety-generating. I don't want to go through that again.
So, to address my daily (and longer, light-induced mood swings), my doctor has prescribed Zyprexa - olanzapine. I'm at only 5mg/day, and although it REALLY sandbagged me at first, it now seems to have smoothed out my mood on a 24-hour scale.
I still have light-variablity induced mood swings, such that a few sunny days in a row will leave me feeling quite confident, expansive, handsome, whatever, and a few cludy days will cause me to feel low, ugly, etc, with the intervening periods characterized by anxiety. This may perhaps be moderated by an increased dosage of Zyprexa, which is the next thing we're going to try. If that doesn't do it, tapering off the Lamictal and starting on Depakote - divalproate - may be the autumn option, though with all the tests this is very expensive and I can't afford it until I'm in grad school and fully insured.
Finally, and to get back to my original point, it's not at all clear whether my ADHD symptoms are simply part of my bipolar symptom cluster, or if the ADHD and bipolar disorder are separate and comorbid. For this reason, the use of stimulants, even something as "safe" as Strattera, may be contraindicated, but on the other hand may be perfectly alright... it's a crap shoot!
What I hope you can get from this is, 1) It's hella difficult for your doctor to sort these things out, they're very complicated, and self-diagnosis, although you may "know" how you feel, is NOT a good idea, 2) there are alot of different medication strategies to work through, and patience is a MUST, 3) self-medication is ALWAYS a no-no, despite any short-term positive effects you may perceive (If you're in a bad way emotionally, just about ANYTHING may seem to give you relief, because it distracts you from your suffering. Airplane glue, alcohol, hard drugs, sex, food, coffee, cigs, exercise, you name it: They all have effects on your brain, and will change the chemistry, for better or worse....and sometimes you're so desperate for change, any change, that these things seem like possibilities), 4) TALK TO YOUR DOCTOR and be honest! And if your doctor isn't helping you, find another one. You have to participate in your treatment to make it work!I hope all this information helps you, and is not just an exercise in self-indulgence on my part.
And by the way, I asked my doc about Abilify – apipiprazole – and he said it has yet to be approved for bipolar disorder, although he did have free samples that a sales rep had left. Ah, the temptation! When I read about it, it sounded very good: A serotonin agonist and anti-agonist, meaning it would tend to stabilize the effect of serotonin on receptors in the brain, and also anecdotal evidence that suggests it may work for ADHD. Sigh. Who knows? Maybe I’ll end up trying it someday, or maybe not, if something else does a good enough job to satisfy me….
I wish you all the best, relief from your troubles and happy outcomes!
comorbid?
Posted by froggyanna on May 22, 2003, at 23:45:02
In reply to Re: Glad To Find This Group -- Starting Straterra, posted by froggyanna on May 22, 2003, at 17:11:31
First Day on Straterra: whoa!Just thought I'd drop in and "report" on my experience the first day of taking Straterra. As I wrote earlier, the first couple of hours consisted of very slight queasiness and very slight dizzyness. Soon after that, a kind of a "high" set in. I was just sitting at the computer for most of the day. Around 6pm I became quite tired and napped on the couch for about an hour and a half. I still felt a bit queasy before sleeping, but when I woke up, that was gone. Also, upon waking I felt a bit spacey. Now I'm feeling pretty much back to "normal."
I have a small pile of projects on my desk that I could have done today, but I didn't. Things like paying bills, organizing some records, etc. I had a professional Organizer come in to help me get my office straightened up before we put our house on the market, and at least I'm not feeling overwhelmed by the mess at the moment (because there is no mess). But as usual I'm putting things off, not wanting to get started, etc. I don't know if a drug can help me with that -- they say it's possible! We'll see.
I'm almost reluctant to try this again tomorrow, except that I know that people have said that the side effects subside. So I'm going to keep trying, and I'll post again tomorrow how the second day goes.
Regards,
froggyanna
Posted by froggyanna on May 23, 2003, at 9:55:23
In reply to Glad To Find This Group -- Starting Straterra, posted by froggyanna on May 22, 2003, at 4:32:32
Day 2 -- Before TakingWow.... well, that was some night! After taking Straterra for the first time yesterday, I wondered how I would sleep. Interesting! My husband is very sensitive to my movements and he frequently complains that I wake him up. I don't know if that's always because of ME or if he himself is having trouble sleeping. But anyway, in MY HEAD last night I was tossing and turning, waking up frequently and going back to sleep, and generally sleeping VERY fitfully. Not at all pleasant. At one point, I even had a really urgent diarrhea-like cramping and then it almost immediately went away. I woke up around 7:00, as he was waking, and I asked him if any of it had bothered him. He said he never noticed anything! So either he was sleeping VERY soundly or my perception of my "activity" was more in my head than in my body.
I jumped out of bed and took a shower with more than my usual amount of clarity and enthusiasm. That's pleasant. I dunno..... maybe all that discomfort is worth it to feel like this in the morning? Has anyone else had an experience like this?
Not noticing any of the "dryness" that other people have reported.
I'm going to take my second dose now (40mg). I don't look forward to the discomfort I felt yesterday, but I'm hoping that will eventually subside....
froggyanna
Posted by paulk on May 23, 2003, at 10:44:29
In reply to Re: Mirapex, posted by comorbid? on May 22, 2003, at 22:03:18
>In my case, the current diagnosis is childhood-onset bipolar, type 2, seasonal, with rapid (ultra-ultra-rapid) cycling
<snip>
>But, referring back to the above, my new psychiatrist refused to prescribe stimulants, because he felt they might induce mania. This despite the fact that I have only experienced hypomania, never full-blown mania, and never psychosis. Needless to say, I found this frustrating.
<snip>
>… it has not had any great influence on my mood swings; last autumn, which season is usually my worst due to falling light levels, was absolutely horrible, my worst in a decade
A very similar type of deal is going on with my sister’s girl. Once she got the bipolar diagnose, they wouldn’t even try her with stimulants.I think the bi-polar diagnose is a fad diagnose and unfortunately, ends up removing most of your treatment options. Deciding if a patient is hyperactive or manic is a VERY subjective determination that will get you either a bipolar or a quite different ADD diagnose.
The fix is to go to a new doctor and tell him you want his to diagnose you BEFORE he has access to your old records.
You will most likely get a new diagnose, and if it is non bi-polar you should be able to try stimulants. (In fact I would bet if you go to 5 different doctors, you will get 5 different diagnoses!)
Your best hope to get good treatment is to be very proactive with your doctor.
Posted by ciejae on May 23, 2003, at 10:52:37
In reply to Re: Glad To Find This Group -- Starting Straterra, posted by froggyanna on May 23, 2003, at 9:55:23
I also had many side affects at the beginning (taking it 2.5 months now). I had minimal trouble sleeping, but an incredibly hard time staying awake during the day while at work. In order to function, I just drank lots and lots of coffe to counteract the sleepiness, and the lack of motivation. Gradually I needed to use less and less coffee. I also had problems with urinary retention, minor headaches,and dry mouth. Those too went away gradually. The final result?--I'm not a different person, but it has helped me in many ways. Just try and stick with it in spite of the side affects. And by the way, it really didn't start helping my ADD until about 3 weeks after starting. It's like an antidepressent, it takes a while to work.
Posted by froggyanna on May 23, 2003, at 12:10:57
In reply to Re: Glad To Find This Group -- Starting Straterra, posted by ciejae on May 23, 2003, at 10:52:37
Thanks, ciejae, I'd really like to know how you think it has helped you, specifically. What symptoms of ADD have you been able to overcome with it? Have you ever tried any of the stimulants? (I have not.) I am also hypothyroid, so I would like to avoid them if possible. After taking Straterra for awhile now and getting used to it, do you notice any side effects at all? That is, are you aware that you have taken a drug? With the others that I take (Zoloft, Levoxyl, Buspar), I just pop them in and forget about it. Can you do that now with Straterra?
I appreciate the encouragement. I'm definitely planning on sticking this out, at least until a better idea comes along....
Regards,
froggyanna
> I also had many side affects at the beginning (taking it 2.5 months now). I had minimal trouble sleeping, but an incredibly hard time staying awake during the day while at work. In order to function, I just drank lots and lots of coffe to counteract the sleepiness, and the lack of motivation. Gradually I needed to use less and less coffee. I also had problems with urinary retention, minor headaches,and dry mouth. Those too went away gradually. The final result?--I'm not a different person, but it has helped me in many ways. Just try and stick with it in spite of the side affects. And by the way, it really didn't start helping my ADD until about 3 weeks after starting. It's like an antidepressent, it takes a while to work.
Posted by ciejae on May 23, 2003, at 15:45:01
In reply to Re: Glad To Find This Group -- Starting Straterra, posted by froggyanna on May 23, 2003, at 12:10:57
I usually don't get irritated over loud or sharp noises or bright light anymore
I need less sleep now (6 instead of 8), and when I wake up, I'm fully functional and not tired and "out of it" anymore in the morning.
I not speeding through traffic cursing at people all the way anymore. I don't find it as annoying as I used to when people are holding me up in traffic, even when I might be late for something.
I'm not feeling panic over deadlines that I have to meet, or multiple tasks that I have to do in a short period of time (my job can be very stressful at times, I'm an engineer).
I'm not feeling like something terrible is going to happen (I'm usually always waiting for the worst)
I haven't been feeling the urge to go on a shopping binge (spending money has been one of the ways that I've provided myself the stimulation I needed)
I'm not worrying as much (I used to get fixed on a certain issue, and go over and over it in my head)
I don't fall asleep while watching movies anymore.
I find it easier to talk, my thoughts are flowing much easier now.
I'm becoming a better listener, people don't bore me as much as they used to.
I'm tackling difficult jobs at work for much longer periods of time than I could have ever tolerated before.
I'm getting along better with my husband and kids.
I'm not getting stressed out when I'm a passenger in a car anymore.
My phobias aren't bothering me as much (fear of heights, fear of flying, fear of being under a bridge, fear of going over a bridge……yes, I do have my issues)
I'm still messy, but I think that now I have more patience to work on it.
Also, I have no sexual side effects. I've taken anti-depressants in the past, and all of them had sexual side effects.
Posted by ciejae on May 23, 2003, at 15:58:02
In reply to Re: Glad To Find This Group -- Starting Straterra, posted by froggyanna on May 23, 2003, at 12:10:57
I forgot to say that I've never tried any stimulants. I never realized I was ADD until I started reading about it on the internet. Then I realized that me and both my daughters had the same symptoms. I went back to my old psychiatrist (who did one of the studies on Strattera before it was approved)and he looked in my records. He said that way back when I was seeing him before, he thought I had ADD (I thought it was depression) and he was treating me with anti-depressents that were for depression as well as ADD (I think it may have been Wellbutrin or Paxil, it's been so long-10 years now). After about 6 months of success with this drug, I'm going to tell my daughters about it. I don't want to let anyone in my family know about it right now. For instance, when I've taken anti-depressents in the past, everytime something went wrong, my husband would blame it on the drug (because he's the type that just doesn't believe in taking a pill to make you normal). I just want to be able to evaluate this drug on my own without his slanted opinion. Oh, by the way, he really is a nice guy, but just a little too protective of me.
Posted by froggyanna on May 24, 2003, at 2:03:24
In reply to Re: Glad To Find This Group -- Starting Straterra, posted by ciejae on May 23, 2003, at 15:45:01
Hey ciejae, that's quite an impressive list! Thank you for taking the trouble to write that!My "wish list" would certainly include some of these, but others would not be applicable. Since I have taken antidepressants for years and have also done some meditation, I don't have as much trouble with things like family relationships, stress from worrying, etc. What I'm hoping for is more results in the areas of task management, job performance, time and life organization, etc. I guess that everyone's specific symptoms and hoped-for results are going to be different, despite the overall similarity of having ADD.
Well, I'm definitely going to continue with the Straterra for now. See my next post on my experience today.
froggyanna
> I usually don't get irritated over loud or sharp noises or bright light anymore
> I need less sleep now (6 instead of 8), and when I wake up, I'm fully functional and not tired and "out of it" anymore in the morning.
> I not speeding through traffic cursing at people all the way anymore. I don't find it as annoying as I used to when people are holding me up in traffic, even when I might be late for something.
> I'm not feeling panic over deadlines that I have to meet, or multiple tasks that I have to do in a short period of time (my job can be very stressful at times, I'm an engineer).
> I'm not feeling like something terrible is going to happen (I'm usually always waiting for the worst)
> I haven't been feeling the urge to go on a shopping binge (spending money has been one of the ways that I've provided myself the stimulation I needed)
> I'm not worrying as much (I used to get fixed on a certain issue, and go over and over it in my head)
> I don't fall asleep while watching movies anymore.
> I find it easier to talk, my thoughts are flowing much easier now.
> I'm becoming a better listener, people don't bore me as much as they used to.
> I'm tackling difficult jobs at work for much longer periods of time than I could have ever tolerated before.
> I'm getting along better with my husband and kids.
> I'm not getting stressed out when I'm a passenger in a car anymore.
> My phobias aren't bothering me as much (fear of heights, fear of flying, fear of being under a bridge, fear of going over a bridge……yes, I do have my issues)
> I'm still messy, but I think that now I have more patience to work on it.
> Also, I have no sexual side effects. I've taken anti-depressants in the past, and all of them had sexual side effects.
>
Posted by froggyanna on May 24, 2003, at 2:11:11
In reply to Re: Glad To Find This Group -- Starting Straterra, posted by froggyanna on May 23, 2003, at 9:55:23
Day 2 -- After TakingWhat a difference a day makes. I reported that my first day consisted of queasiness, dizzyness, "high"ness, and tiredness on 40mg of Straterra. Also, no dryness.
Today, I felt NO queasiness, NO "high"ness, just a teensy bit of spaciness, and a little tiredness -- not enough to be able to nap. I got just a hint of the dry mouth feeling, but it wasn't uncomfortable. I use Biotene toothpaste and chew Biotene gum on occasion, and that's supposed to counteract the dry mouth caused by medications.
This was a MUCH better day in terms of side effects. Well, I'm going to bed now, so I hope I don't feel as fitful as I did last night.
Nighty-nite!
froggyanna
Posted by froggyanna on May 24, 2003, at 9:44:01
In reply to Re: Glad To Find This Group -- Starting Straterra, posted by froggyanna on May 24, 2003, at 2:11:11
Day 3 -- Before TakingMuch better quality of sleep last night! I don't know what was going on 24 hours ago, but I slept very soundly this time. Some VERY loud birdies woke me up this morning, because we've just started opening the windows in the warmer weather.
Also, just now I woke up with the same kind of clarity and enthusiasm as I did yesterday. I even quickly sorted all my laundry and popped a load in the washer. That's something that usually takes me DAYS to decide to do, well past the time when I need to do it! This was a simple decision to do something and I did it -- none of that emotional back-and-forth of whether I really want to or not. Five minutes and it was done. On to the next activity.
I don't know at this point if this is the drug working on me, or if this is me pushing for a positive outcome and I'm excited at the newness of it. The stimulation of the new and different always "gets me going." But I really do feel different... not dragging and very clear-headed.
My doctor said that I should aim for a dosage of 120mg and I'm only at 40mg now. Does anyone know if Straterra is a drug where you "need" to increase the dosage after awhile in order to keep the good effect? Does your body start tolerating it?
I'm going to take today's dose now.... I wish all of you the best!
froggyanna
Posted by fallsfall on May 24, 2003, at 11:20:48
In reply to Re: Glad To Find This Group -- Starting Straterra, posted by froggyanna on May 24, 2003, at 9:44:01
Your laundry story sounds just like the effect I get from Strattera. I have found it quite refreshing to actually be able to move again. I'm on 80mg (but also taking Prozac which means I should need less Strattera), and started 4 months ago. If you start having more side effects (nausea, dizziness were mine), increase the dose slowly. I've found the side effects have pretty much gone away. (Except maybe for the dry mouth, but I don't know if that is due to Strattera or the other things I take. I use Biotene toothpaste, too - even when I'm not having dry mouth - I like the mild taste.) Best of luck!
Posted by Ritchie on May 24, 2003, at 11:53:15
In reply to Re: Glad To Find This Group -- Starting Straterra » froggyanna, posted by fallsfall on May 24, 2003, at 11:20:48
I have been on Strattera for several months. I started at 18 mg and I am now at 120mg even though it is above the FDA recommendations of 100mg. My doctor is using me as a guinea pig for depression. I am finally seeing some results. I still experience dizziness and the dry mouth. I use biotene toothpaste and gum and carry water with me wherever I go. Actally it seems to have lessened since I bumped up to 120mg. I still have no appetite which is fine with me. I find it very good for anxiety and ruminating. It also helps clear the suicide thoughts out.
I tried Lexapro which was bad and also Remeron which worked but made me swell up like a pig. So the STrattera is a trial thing for me and it seems to be working. I'm sticking with it. Also no sexual side effects as you have on other anti-depressants. But I also take 300 mg of 5-HTP in the evening. It helps with the sleep problem Stattera can cause. Frequent awakenings.
Posted by froggyanna on May 24, 2003, at 13:33:01
In reply to Re: Glad To Find This Group -- Starting Straterra » froggyanna, posted by fallsfall on May 24, 2003, at 11:20:48
It IS refreshing! I feel more like the person I know I can be! Moving, not eating, doing things that need to be done and that I WANT to do. (Not that laundry is my ultimate dream activity, mind you....) But you know: get going, do things, and leave room in the day to do other, more enjoyable things instead of ruminating about it all day!How long did you go before going up to 80mg? Or did you start there?
I am also planning to add T3 (Cytomel, perhaps) to the T4 I'm already taking (Levoxyl) for my hypothyroid condition in a few weeks, after I've gone over the results of my blood tests with my doctor. I wonder if having your thyroid functioning optimally would prevent some of the side effects? I took my dose of Straterra this morning and almost immediately started feeling tired again. Even without drugs, my normal pattern most of the time seems to be to wake up with enthusiasm but then kind of hit a wall after an hour or two. I think that having a properly functioning thyroid would prevent that, and make it less of an issue when taking drugs. Maybe?
Biotene -- at first I didn't like the taste, but I quickly got used to it. Now I can't STAND the taste of the mainstream toothpastes! They make me gag and make my mouth feel like it's filled with cotton candy, even after rinsing!! Good stuff, that Biotene.
So you've been taking Straterra for four months. Do you take it for ADD, like I do, or some other reason? I hope you've realized some good, positive changes!
Thanks for your feedback!
froggyanna
> Your laundry story sounds just like the effect I get from Strattera. I have found it quite refreshing to actually be able to move again. I'm on 80mg (but also taking Prozac which means I should need less Strattera), and started 4 months ago. If you start having more side effects (nausea, dizziness were mine), increase the dose slowly. I've found the side effects have pretty much gone away. (Except maybe for the dry mouth, but I don't know if that is due to Strattera or the other things I take. I use Biotene toothpaste, too - even when I'm not having dry mouth - I like the mild taste.) Best of luck!
Posted by froggyanna on May 24, 2003, at 14:02:24
In reply to Re: Glad To Find This Group -- Starting Straterra, posted by Ritchie on May 24, 2003, at 11:53:15
Hi Ritchie,Have you ever tried any of the SSRI's for depression? I took Prozac for years and then a few years ago I switched to Zoloft.
My doctor also prescribed 1 to 3 40mg tablets a day, which means I could also go up to 120mg. I wonder what their reasoning is, if the FDA guideline is 100? I also wonder if I go up that high if I could gradually go off the Zoloft? If I get my thyroid in order (see my previous post), maybe that and this drug for ADD would help to prevent depression. All I know at this point is that I KNOW what it feels like to be heading toward depression, and I can tell the difference between that and the kinds of symptoms I get from the ADD. I kind of think that it's the dysfunction from ADD that triggers depression, and if I'm not triggering depression anymore, and the thyroid is in order, then maybe I won't need an antidepressent?
I would also appreciate the lessening of my appetite! So far, with Straterra, I've found that that's the case. I just don't seem to need the junk food and candy. But it's only three days now.....
I'm not sure if I'll end up with sleep problems with Straterra. The first night I had them, the second night I didn't. I also have sleep apnea, and my psychiatrist recommended that I take Buspar to reduce snoring and possibly even relieve the apnea. I'm taking 60mg of Buspar. On Monday night I'm doing a sleep study and they'll be able to tell me if anything has changed.
I'm glad you've found Straterra to be a good solution. I hope it is for me, too!
froggyanna
> I have been on Strattera for several months. I started at 18 mg and I am now at 120mg even though it is above the FDA recommendations of 100mg. My doctor is using me as a guinea pig for depression. I am finally seeing some results. I still experience dizziness and the dry mouth. I use biotene toothpaste and gum and carry water with me wherever I go. Actally it seems to have lessened since I bumped up to 120mg. I still have no appetite which is fine with me. I find it very good for anxiety and ruminating. It also helps clear the suicide thoughts out.
> I tried Lexapro which was bad and also Remeron which worked but made me swell up like a pig. So the STrattera is a trial thing for me and it seems to be working. I'm sticking with it. Also no sexual side effects as you have on other anti-depressants. But I also take 300 mg of 5-HTP in the evening. It helps with the sleep problem Stattera can cause. Frequent awakenings.
Posted by Ritchie on May 24, 2003, at 14:17:34
In reply to Re: Glad To Find This Group -- Starting Straterra » Ritchie , posted by froggyanna on May 24, 2003, at 14:02:24
My doctor told me since the Strattera is so new they are not really sure about the dosage so he let me go up to 120 since I wasn't getting much relief from the depression at 80. The 5-Htp I take is also a serotonin enhancer so I think that helps. I've lost 20lbs since taking the Strattera and my therapist thinks I am heading toward an eating disorder so this may be a new side effect since Effexor SR can trigger anorexia. I have tried SSRIS and I am extremely sensitive to them and anything that makes me gain weight, I refuse to take. I also have high blood pressure which I take magnesium for to keep it down while on the Strattera as well as 3 other meds. I don't have ADD, I am only taking this for depression and anxiety. I know my nephew tried it too for his ADD and he hated it. Some brains are more stubborn then others and mine happens to like the 120mg.
Good Luck!
Posted by fallsfall on May 24, 2003, at 15:40:38
In reply to Re: Glad To Find This Group -- Starting Straterra » fallsfall, posted by froggyanna on May 24, 2003, at 13:33:01
But I don't want to go overboard with the useful activity. Right now I am eating a piece of cake and reading message boards instead of cleaning my very dirty kitchen...
I take Strattera for depression. It gives me energy, motivation, initiative and is really good at lessening suicidal thoughts. I would still call me severely depressed, but before I was catatonic. Since it is approved for ADD (and not depression) hopefully it will be even more wonderful for you!
I started at 10mg and increased 10mg every 3 days. I did have some side effect issues, and based on what other posters have said I'm really glad I went up slowly. (I also take Prozac which should mean I need less of the Strattera. I'm getting over a really difficult period where my world collaped despite all the meds I take. It was really hard to see what the Strattera was doing. My pdoc had talked about 100mg/day, but I stuck to 80mg - we'll see what he says in 2 weeks)
The lithium I've been taking for 8 years messes up my thyroid so I take Synthroid. My pdoc checks levels periodically and adjusts the Synthroid. So I assume that those levels are OK.
Strattera gives me energy, but there was a long time when I would get my daughter off to school, take my meds and then take a nap. I did this both before Strattera and after Strattera. After Strattera the nap is almost never more than an hour and a half. So my guess is that that is how long it takes the Strattera (and Provigil) to get to work.
(Dare I say this outloud? Maybe we should get together and market a mainstream toothpaste that has a mild taste? My daughter uses "bubblemint" and that just seems so disgusting!)
Posted by littie on May 24, 2003, at 17:23:14
In reply to Glad To Find This Group -- Starting Straterra, posted by froggyanna on May 22, 2003, at 4:32:32
I too am experiencing my first week on Strattera. My situation is more "pure" because I stopped Prozac and Buspar a couple of months ago, and Strattera is my only med. I just could not handle taking things every day that seem to make me so hungry all the time. I have gained nearly fifty pounds since I started taking Prozac ten years ago. I was always a skinny minnie before that and I can't incorporate all of this weight into my body image. Prozac, while immensely helpful, also took away my desire to exercise and much of my creativity.
I have depression with a subtext of ADD, but I'm unable to take stimulants because of a past history of drug abuse. So the doctor decided to try Strattera. I tried it for a few days but felt very tachycardic and nauseated and stopped, but decided to give it one more try. It's been about five days. I'm not depressed, I'm a little queasy, and most of all I don't feel terribly hungry. It's a little early to tell, but I seem to be able to stay on task a bit more. I'm interested in hearing from others who are taking the Strattera road, particularly as it relates to motivation in doing daily tasks and appetite.
Posted by Ritchie on May 24, 2003, at 17:30:10
In reply to Re: Glad To Find This Group -- Starting Straterra, posted by littie on May 24, 2003, at 17:23:14
> I too am experiencing my first week on Strattera. My situation is more "pure" because I stopped Prozac and Buspar a couple of months ago, and Strattera is my only med. I just could not handle taking things every day that seem to make me so hungry all the time. I have gained nearly fifty pounds since I started taking Prozac ten years ago. I was always a skinny minnie before that and I can't incorporate all of this weight into my body image. Prozac, while immensely helpful, also took away my desire to exercise and much of my creativity.
>
> I have depression with a subtext of ADD, but I'm unable to take stimulants because of a past history of drug abuse. So the doctor decided to try Strattera. I tried it for a few days but felt very tachycardic and nauseated and stopped, but decided to give it one more try. It's been about five days. I'm not depressed, I'm a little queasy, and most of all I don't feel terribly hungry. It's a little early to tell, but I seem to be able to stay on task a bit more. I'm interested in hearing from others who are taking the Strattera road, particularly as it relates to motivation in doing daily tasks and appetite.I have lost 20 lbs on Strattera, I take magnesium for the rapid heart beat and I am at 120 mg for depression and anxiety and it helps. I don't have ADD only taking it for depression. But your weight should eventually come off. Strattera seems to be like most anti-depressants, it takes it awhile to kick in. Be patient as I was and I am pretty happy with it.
Good Luck!
Posted by froggyanna on May 24, 2003, at 20:24:02
In reply to Re: Glad To Find This Group -- Starting Straterra, posted by littie on May 24, 2003, at 17:23:14
Day 3 -- After StraterraSometimes I wish I was doing only one drug at a time, but the ones that I am currently taking I've been taking for a long time. So it's pretty clear when something changes, it's because of the "new drug." However..... I did also just start taking buspirone, but that's because the psychiatrist thought that it might help my snoring and apnea.
I also have struggled with the weight. I've put on a LOT more than 50 pounds over about 12 years, starting with Prozac, then Zoloft. It seemed like the better I felt in my head, the less oomph I felt in my body! Frustrating. I do suspect the thyroid problem might be at the root of it, though. With Straterra, I'm finding my appetite to be really in control. I could stand to lose at least 100 pounds, though, probably more, so I don't think I'll be able to rely on just Straterra to help me with that. Also, I read something earlier today from WebMD, a report that said that people do tend to lose weight quickly at first, but that over the long haul, the loss isn't that significant. I guess we'll just have to wait and see!
Yes, I'm also interested in hearing from others using Straterra, in regards to motivation and appetite! As for today..... after my glowing report first thing this morning, I kind of conked out. The tiredness hit me pretty hard. If it wasn't a Saturday and I had things to do outside the house, I don't know if I would have felt as bad. But that couch was mighty inviting today and it got used! Then I was all groggy the various times I woke up and moved around during my extended "nap."
froggyanna
Posted by comorbid? on May 24, 2003, at 20:24:24
In reply to Atomoxetine (Straterra) - bi polar » comorbid?, posted by paulk on May 23, 2003, at 10:44:29
> I think the bi-polar diagnose is a fad diagnose and unfortunately, ends up removing most of your treatment options. Deciding if a patient is hyperactive or manic is a VERY subjective determination that will get you either a bipolar or a quite different ADD diagnose.
>
> The fix is to go to a new doctor and tell him you want his to diagnose you BEFORE he has access to your old records.
>
> You will most likely get a new diagnose, and if it is non bi-polar you should be able to try stimulants. (In fact I would bet if you go to 5 different doctors, you will get 5 different diagnoses!)
>
> Your best hope to get good treatment is to be very proactive with your doctor.
>
paulk -
Thanks for your input and advice. I must say, my initial self-diagnosis, based on what i ferreted out on the web, was ADHD, inattention subtype, and i wanted stimulant treatment. BUT, i had additional symptoms that were not covered by the ADHD symptom cluster: Depression and hypomania on a seasonal cycle (as well as on shorter cycles), pronounced mood lability of long duration, strong correlation between light exposure and mood, ultra-ultra-rapid (ultradian) mood cycling, and so on. These are all hallmarks of childhood-onset BPD, and after my doc told me he thought i might be bipolar, i looked into it and found that my symptoms were MUCH better characterized by bipolar type 2 than by ADHD.
AN interesting thing: Childhood-onset bipolar disorder is very frequently _misdiagnosed_ as ADHD. I would suggest that any parent who has a child with an "intractable" case of ADHD consider the possiblity of COBPD or "early onset BPD," especially if there is a family history of mood disorders. This is 180 degrees different from your assertion about "fad diagnoses."
To further respond to your suggestions: My current doctor had no medical history to refer to, other than what i told him about my self-diagnosis and my history of winter depression and summer up-mood, with agitation and extreme mood swings in spring and fall (which had been ignored by my previous docs). My case history was unavailable to him, due to difficulties in obtaining the documents and my privacy concerns. This doc has wide experience in dealing with ADHD and numerous other disorders that interfere with studying, because he works in a university mental health setting. He doesn't have any predispostion to one diagnosis or another (which is what i think you're suggesting). And his diagnosis is in complete accord with my symptom cluster, more so than that of any doc i've had previously.
If you look back at my first post, you'll see that my psychometric assessment, which was performed independently by another doctor in the university system (who did not communicate with my current doc) was ADHD _inattention subtype_ with FEATURES of hyperactivity, and that my slight hyperactivity was not my reason for seeking treatment, nor was it the most salient part of my symptom cluster. I have never fit into the hyperactivity model very well; i'm a distracted daydreamer, rather than a disrupter. Always have been, from early childhood.
You may also see from my earlier post that i AM proactive with my doc. We have a very open relationship, and he respects my self-awareness and asks me to consider things rather than telling me what to do (he even suggests that I look up references for various drugs to see what I think about them!). Since i agree with his diagnosis and am doing well with my current treatment (though not finished titrating, and still having some concentration issues that we’re working on), i think it would be ill-advised, even foolish, for me to seek another doctor at this time.
Finally, it bears mentioning that there are NUMEROUS treatment options for both ADHD and bipolar disorder, and a well-informed doc will know about them. My doctor has included the possibilty of stimulants in my case, having decided that my degree of self-awareness and my honesty and openness with him reduce the risk of unwanted complications “snowballing”... Strattera is appealing, because it is not a controlled substance like the amphetamines and appears to be less likely to induce mania. But frankly, i'd rather continue my current course of treatment, because stimulants simply will not address my various problems with long term mood lability (ADHD is often associated with SHORT-TERM mood swings). My doc even suggested the possibility of using stimulants on an occasional basis, for times when i need extra concentration, but i'm not very interested in this option, because i've abused stimulants in the past and am familiar with how they affect my mood when i discontinue them (depression).
Thank you for your opinions, but really i think you need to take a closer look at things before making the type of statements you made. Mental illness is complicated, highly variable, and poorly understood; jumping to snap conclusions is not the way to deal with it.
comorbid?
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