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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 79. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by delna on April 29, 2003, at 11:38:43
i am a female and i suffer from 'soft bipolarity' with depression as the main prob. even during seriously depressed periods i have always felt uncomfortablely oversexed.it is a physical sensation and it is quite unbearable. sex does not improve the matter at all.This is helped very little by mood stabalizers or antidepressants. has anyone experienced this. has any medicine helped
thanks delna
Posted by Bill L on April 29, 2003, at 13:40:56
In reply to oversexed, posted by delna on April 29, 2003, at 11:38:43
delna, I used to feel the same way. In my case, SSRI's have lessened the urge. You said that antidepressents did not help very much. Which did you try? Some tend to decrease the drive and some do not. The SSRI's, Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Celexa, and Lexapro often cause at least some decrease in the sex drive. Paxil seems to cause the biggest drop in the sex drive. Maybe you should give Paxil a try if you haven't already.
Posted by Sarah S on April 29, 2003, at 15:20:23
In reply to Re: oversexed, posted by Bill L on April 29, 2003, at 13:40:56
Yeah, I used to feel that way a lot. Personally, when I am on a sedating drug such as an SSRI or a benzo, I experience no decrease in sexual feelings, but the sexual feelings are more comfortable--i.e. I still want sex, but the sharp, burning, "Jesus Christ, I need it NOW!" feelings are gone. Those feelings come back and bite me in the a$$ when I'm withdrawing from benzos though, so I wouldn't recommend using those regularly--just when it gets bad. I know how much it can suck and I wish you good luck in toning down your feelings a little.
Posted by delna on April 29, 2003, at 15:42:14
In reply to Re: oversexed, posted by Sarah S on April 29, 2003, at 15:20:23
thanks to you for your follow ups.
so far i have been on paxil (2 yrs), prozac and citalopram. also effexor. the only thing that has made any difference is lamotrogine. at least i can sit still now and be more productive! my doc has added clonazepam and betablockers amd if all fails is keen to add gabapentin - and i am aldready on such a cocktail that i am dreading that. in my most desperate state i have even tried local anasthetic like lidnocaine..it is so frustrating.
still searching
delna
Posted by McPac on April 29, 2003, at 19:10:46
In reply to Re: oversexed, posted by Sarah S on April 29, 2003, at 15:20:23
"the sharp, burning, "Jesus Christ, I need it NOW!"
would make for a fun date!
Posted by sapphiredragon on April 30, 2003, at 7:28:11
In reply to Re: oversexed, posted by McPac on April 29, 2003, at 19:10:46
Here is a link to a website that has an article about "persistent arousal syndrome" in women. The article is at the bottom of the webpage.
Posted by Dreamerz on April 30, 2003, at 7:50:50
In reply to persistent arousal syndrom, posted by sapphiredragon on April 30, 2003, at 7:28:11
Hmm sounds like my problem too but is it hypomania or a problem that induces hypomania..?Fortunatly I'm in remission :-) -- however annoying it is ..you miss it when it's gone.
Posted by delna on April 30, 2003, at 10:41:48
In reply to persistent arousal syndrom, posted by sapphiredragon on April 30, 2003, at 7:28:11
> Here is a link to a website that has an article about "persistent arousal syndrome" in women. The article is at the bottom of the webpage.
>
> http://www.newshe.com/
Thanks, that was so useful.i am not alone after all. i must take it to my psychiatrist 4 his views.
thank u, thank u again
Posted by colin wallace on May 1, 2003, at 12:51:20
In reply to Re: persistent arousal syndrom, posted by delna on April 30, 2003, at 10:41:48
I am currently conducting phase 11 trials of the novel therapy "Colinsinsyde", in the treatment of female acute persistent arousal syndrome.
Patients can expect a steep dose curve response, and spontaneous remission within a very short timescale.
Entry is strictly controlled, and full compliance/rigid adherance is compulsory.Dr.Colin
Posted by johnj on May 1, 2003, at 13:41:11
In reply to Re: persistent arousal syndrome., posted by colin wallace on May 1, 2003, at 12:51:20
Obviously Dr. Colin is not having any SE from his meds and his mood is approaching a high level of "randiness".
Good to see your post Colin. Dr. JohnJ is available for evaluating patients too. I am having a good day after ups and downs. Happened upon some reading about insomnia since I have started taking Mg. It has really helped anxiety, but started to affect my sleep and hence increased fatigue and depression. I am experimenting with dosage/time/food and it seems to help. Still on the lamacital and prozac? Is it working well for you? Are you still excercising?
P.S. A buddy of mine from the UK was here in the US and we had a great time. Planning a visit over the pond to see him if I can save some money, that's a big IF. Have a good one.
johnj
Posted by Joanie on May 1, 2003, at 14:20:29
In reply to Re: oversexed, posted by delna on April 29, 2003, at 15:42:14
Well, not to your extent. I mean I'm sure it is a problem for you, but coming from someone who is exactly opposite and have been for a couple of years, TELL ME something to take to make me even mildly excited. I just can't get into it anymore and it really really sucks. I take effexor, have taken Lexapro, prozac, paxil, and I also take clonazepam. I just feel ... blah about sex. Need something to help! Anybody know anything??? Maybe a good A.D. that'll have that effect?????
Posted by Dinah on May 1, 2003, at 17:59:38
In reply to Re: persistent arousal syndrom, posted by delna on April 30, 2003, at 10:41:48
It's a pretty reliable indicator for me that I'm entering hypomania.
And it's not anywhere near as fun as it sounds.
Posted by cybercafe on May 2, 2003, at 2:35:51
In reply to Re: oversexed-I want something to make me that way, posted by Joanie on May 1, 2003, at 14:20:29
> Well, not to your extent. I mean I'm sure it is a problem for you, but coming from someone who is exactly opposite and have been for a couple of years, TELL ME something to take to make me even mildly excited. I just can't get into it anymore and it really really sucks. I take effexor, have taken Lexapro, prozac, paxil, and I also take clonazepam. I just feel ... blah about sex. Need something to help! Anybody know anything??? Maybe a good A.D. that'll have that effect?????
you want parnate
Posted by Katia on May 3, 2003, at 3:46:06
In reply to persistent arousal syndrom, posted by sapphiredragon on April 30, 2003, at 7:28:11
> Here is a link to a website that has an article about "persistent arousal syndrome" in women. The article is at the bottom of the webpage.
>
> http://www.newshe.com/It's not as fun as it sounds at all! it's like having an orgasm that sits on the verge for days.....
which iswhy maybe i've contemplating prostitution? another story and i'mnot myself.......this is crazy!
Posted by delna on May 3, 2003, at 5:59:28
In reply to Re: persistent arousal syndrom, posted by Katia on May 3, 2003, at 3:46:06
>
> It's not as fun as it sounds at all! it's like having an orgasm that sits on the verge for days.....
>
> which iswhy maybe i've contemplating prostitution? another story and i'mnot myself.......this is crazy!
>
>
>
Katia, do u also suffer frm this? can i ask what diagnosis you have been given by your psych. has this been passing off as the hypersexuality seen in bipolar disorder? with me, it has been explained as hypersexuality of bipolar but this new article describes the problem much more accurately than bipolar hypersexuality. however i have alot of other bipolar symptoms.
delna
Posted by Katia on May 3, 2003, at 13:57:36
In reply to persistent arousal syndrom » Katia, posted by delna on May 3, 2003, at 5:59:28
>
> >
> > It's not as fun as it sounds at all! it's like having an orgasm that sits on the verge for days.....
> >
> > which iswhy maybe i've contemplating prostitution? another story and i'mnot myself.......this is crazy!
> >
> >
> >
> Katia, do u also suffer frm this? can i ask what diagnosis you have been given by your psych. has this been passing off as the hypersexuality seen in bipolar disorder? with me, it has been explained as hypersexuality of bipolar but this new article describes the problem much more accurately than bipolar hypersexuality. however i have alot of other bipolar symptoms.
> delna
>
My diagnosis? when went for the first time last summer to a pdoc was "double depression". I've never been diagnosed as bi-polar, but then again, I'm the one who more or less diagnosed myself and the pdocs just agree; and I'm the one who more or less has thought what totry next for ADs and thepdocs just agree.....
After reading that article, no I don't think Isuffer from persistant arousal syndrome. It maybe morethe hyper thingwithme.
katia
Posted by Dreamerz on May 3, 2003, at 15:40:44
In reply to Re: persistent arousal syndrome, posted by Dinah on May 1, 2003, at 17:59:38
> It's a pretty reliable indicator for me that I'm entering hypomania.
>
> And it's not anywhere near as fun as it sounds.Dinah...
My hypersex thing is starting again--but I don't feel it's hypermania as I've no energy and I'm thoughtless--duh.
No it's no fun .
Posted by paxvox on May 3, 2003, at 21:00:41
In reply to Re: persistent arousal syndrome » Dinah, posted by Dreamerz on May 3, 2003, at 15:40:44
I know you all are being serious about this issue, but unfortunately the opposite end of the spectrum is miserable (at least for me). I mean my wife has absolutely NO interest in sex, which obviously makes my life a little more complicated. There are clearly psycho-chemical reasons for both of these conditions. It's just that every time I see a Viagra commercial, I REALLY get pissed off, as at 43, I could give it a go every day if I had a willing partner (and in those commercials,the women look so pleased that their man have gotten their meds). Guess I'm just THAT lucky!
PAX
Posted by Dinah on May 3, 2003, at 22:30:41
In reply to Re: persistent arousal syndrome » Dinah, posted by Dreamerz on May 3, 2003, at 15:40:44
Sorry to hear that Dreamer. Wouldn't it be nice if we could just even out for a while? I'm kind of hoping the diabetes meds will even me out some.
Posted by slinky on May 4, 2003, at 16:09:32
In reply to Re: persistent arousal syndrome » Dreamerz, posted by Dinah on May 3, 2003, at 22:30:41
> Sorry to hear that Dreamer. Wouldn't it be nice if we could just even out for a while? I'm kind of hoping the diabetes meds will even me out some.
>
Hi Dinah..It's me..
More meds eh..I'm taking vitamin pills to see if they pep me up...I'm sleeping my little life away.
Why can't the wee navel be an arousal off and on switch , oh , and dispense coffee at the same time.stay positive eh..
Posted by slinky on May 4, 2003, at 16:21:37
In reply to Re: persistent arousal syndrome » Dinah, posted by slinky on May 4, 2003, at 16:09:32
Oh and ..
Dreamer has been returned back to the mothership as she was defective and naughty..She probably will not return will be recycled or used as a sex slave.
I have taken her place.
I'm also taking pain killers--co-proxamol..they are very effective for my severe brain throb.
Posted by colin wallace on May 6, 2003, at 9:29:39
In reply to Re: persistent arousal syndrome. » colin wallace, posted by johnj on May 1, 2003, at 13:41:11
>>..Happened upon some reading about insomnia since I have started taking Mg. It has really helped anxiety, but started to affect my sleep and hence increased fatigue and depression. I am experimenting with dosage/time/food and it seems to help. Still on the lamacital and prozac? Is it working well for you? Are you still excercising?
>
> P.S. A buddy of mine from the UK was here in the US and we had a great time. Planning a visit over the pond to see him if I can save some money, that's a big IF. Have a good one.
>
> johnHi there Johnny Boy,
Sorry, I missed this post somehow...must have been recovering from one of my shandy induced hangovers!
I took magnesium for a while too, but got little if any effect from it-I brought my anxiety to heel some time ago,it's just the depression/SAD/swings that continue to plague me, although to a much lesser extent now that the weather's improved here.
Are you still persevering with the lithium/TCA/tranxene(?) combination,or has your doc. come up with any other innovations?
I'm surprising myself with the ease with which I'm tolerating 10mg Prozac with my 300mg Lamictal-it feels like an entirely different drug, with the Lamictal 'filtering' all the unwanted side-effects(except,er,maybe a little floppiness, but my imaginary girlfriend , Gertrude, is quite sympathetic!!)Socializing now for the first time in 3 years, without having to really force myself to go outside.Getting plenty of female attention too, 'cos now I even smile occasionally and bother my arse to speak to people!I still don't have a job, but I'm in no rush to plunge into that just yet either.
If you do venture over this side of the puddle, give me a yell and we can go visit Ron's new gogo bar in Kings Cross, London....Take care,
Col.
Posted by johnj on May 6, 2003, at 14:22:56
In reply to JohnJ, TCA , posted by colin wallace on May 6, 2003, at 9:29:39
He Col:
Good to hear you are in fine spirits(literally!). The prozac/lamacital combo seems to have done a great job. I really miss my beer being on meds. Yes, I am on the same combo as before and what I read about Cymbalta is that it will be 2004 before it comes out. I have lowered my benzo a little and will continue to do so.
Interesting tibit about Mg is that it made me feel like I didn't need any benzo at all. From what I can tell, if I had a deficiency, is that I must have replenished it and then the Mg caused insomnia. From George Eby's website it said people can get type II insomnia and wake up early from Mg, and that is what was happening. So, I lowered my dose and added some calcium and I have had 4 even, not great, but even days/nights. I do have a spaciness that comes after eating and lingers from 1 to 2 hours though. The good thing is that my anxiety is at a very low level. The lack of sleep was very troubling and really racked me down in terms of depression. When I don't sleep I get pretty wacky and ramble way too much. I think I made poor Ron and Larry H want to smack me with my drivel. So, I will just continue to work on things with supplements. I have been able to tolerate some excercise on Mg and hope I can find the balance to keep that up.
My buddy is from London, but I want to visit Scotland if we go too. He took an Icelandic adventure tour and said it was great, especially the gorgeous native babes. Take care of yourself Colin
Cheers!!
johnj
Posted by Ron Hill on May 9, 2003, at 12:31:14
In reply to JohnJ, TCA , posted by colin wallace on May 6, 2003, at 9:29:39
Hey Colin,
> I'm surprising myself with the ease with which I'm tolerating 10mg Prozac with my 300mg Lamictal-it feels like an entirely different drug, with the Lamictal 'filtering' all the unwanted side-effects ...
In addition to the antidepressive effects of Prozac, it's your opinion that it also smoothes out your dysphoric mood states (anger outbursts), right? This was my experience with the SSRIs, in general, and most notably with Prozac. For me, the SSRIs provide an antidepressant effect AND they treat my anger outbursts as well as my anal retentive nit-picky personality quarks. However, as I have discussed with you repeatedly in the past, after several weeks the SSRIs adversely affect my dopaminergic pathways causing me to lose my motivation and become apathetic and emotional blunted.
While the Enada NADH and TMG are doing a good job treating my atypical depression, I find myself in need of some anger management (in tablet form) and some anti-anal medication. In my previous life (before psychotropic medications), I managed my anger, anal, and depressive symptoms fairly well with a rigorous three-hour-a-day workout routine. Exercise didn't totally take away all the symptoms, but overall it did pretty good job. And I think that would work again, but it's hard to get there from the poor state of conditioning I currently find myself.
So I'm thinking about experimenting with some meds for treatment of the anger/anal issues. After I get my exercise routine back in place I might be able to discontinue or reduce any such medication. For the past month or so, I've been using a few milligrams of 5-HTP under my tongue PRN when I get angry. It works, but only for an hour or so. If I started to take higher dosages of 5-HTP on a more frequent basis, I suspect it would loose its effectiveness altogether.
Here’re the options I’m currently considering as add-on to my 600 mg/day of Lithobid and my OTC supplements:
Neurontin
Trileptal
Depakote (low dosage only because it caused hair loss, rash, weight gain, and increased depression when I took it years ago at 750 mg/day).
MAOI
Benzo
AP
Prozac (Dare I say it?! Maybe about three mg per day? Maybe the Enada NADH will counteract the adverse dopaminergic effects?)
I’d really rather not put any of these man-made drugs in my body (let alone the cost of this stuff to my self-insured pocketbook) but, at the same time neither my wife nor myself are satisfied with a rage-o-holic, anal retentive, SOB living with us.Any thoughts?
> If you do venture over this side of the puddle, give me a yell and we can go visit Ron's new gogo bar in Kings Cross, London....
Yes, please do bring John-John (johnj) to the club. Remember to bring your money, however. The cover charge applies to everyone, even my good friends. Also bear in mind that touching the dancers is strictly prohibited.
-- Ron
Posted by colin wallace on May 10, 2003, at 10:31:48
In reply to SSRI for Anger and ARD (Anal Retentive Disorder)? » colin wallace, posted by Ron Hill on May 9, 2003, at 12:31:14
> Ron,
Firstly, I have to confirm that the Prozac(original)has really impressed me, despite my initial reservations.There is no doubt whatsoever that it has greatly improved my overall stability and outlook(which shocked the hell out of me!).However, I also intend to string up another safety net, by adding a small(200mg perhaps)dose of Valproate, meaning I can get away with less Lamictal.
As my concentration is pretty apalling(it can take me almost 5 minutes to read a page thesedays)I also intend to bring in reinforcements in noradrenergic form - desipramine or imipramine etc(low dose of course).This could well help counter any SSRI anerga, although wellbutrin would also be worth a shot here(different mechanisms at play of course).
The natural supplement route is pretty much out for me, unfortunately.Unravelling lifelong, severe depression with such remedies is a bit like throwing a marble at an Abrams tank, in my case at least.I have to sigh, and accept this.
For life.Far preferable to the ruinous state of health depression has inflicted for so long.
I agree with you about the benefits of rigorous exercise-I've noticed a marked improvement in stamina since taking Lamictal/Prozac too.When I was very ill, training was agony.
Looking at your dilemma from afar,it does seem as though an AD will be unavoidable,in some form,at some point.It also seems clear that you'll need an additional safety net too-you mentioned a *low* dose of valproate, and perhaps that's not such a bad idea as a starting point?? (like you, I'm keeping Trileptal and the Ap's in mind as second line).
If Prozac has helped your temper spells in the past, then I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.May even be worth a tentative shot.I've also been considering NADH further on down the line to zap any dopamine depletion- I take 20mg prozac on alternate days(more than enough)and may yet add NADH on the days inbetween-I really did like the feel of the stuff, but only as an add-on(small arms fire!!).I personally wouldn't get by on NADH alone, but as a counterweight to an SSRI...could well work.
I'm sure you'll like Neurontin(very relaxing, even uplifting), but it's only got *mild* antidepressant properties, and it can't
masquerade as a mood stabilizer either.It won't stop mania/hypomania, guaranteed.But that's fine if you're going to do without an AD.
I did try 5htp too, but we didn't get along at all.:(
Another contender in my list has to be Selegiline-as you know, it prevents the breakdown/re-absorption of dopamine, and that's a route I've yet to explore.It's also believed to have neuroprotective effects, etc. etc.
I won't hesitate to try an MAOI if necessary, but for now at least, it's back to basics with my newly discovered stability.
Take what I say with a pinch of salt here Ron- I'd hate to see you become hypomanic(echoes of Zoloft+ Sam e for us both !!!)Keep us informed..
Col.
ps. A benzo??why on earth not, at least untill the anger issue is nailed.A mere 2 to 4mg(child's dose)works well for me.I can take it or leave it as necessary too.
antidepressive effects of Prozac, it's your opinion that it also smoothes out your dysphoric mood states (anger outbursts), right? This was my experience with the SSRIs, in general, and most notably with Prozac. For me, the SSRIs provide an antidepressant effect AND they treat my anger outbursts as well as my anal retentive nit-picky personality quarks. However, as I have discussed with you repeatedly in the past, after several weeks the SSRIs adversely affect my dopaminergic pathways causing me to lose my motivation and become apathetic and emotional blunted.>
> While the Enada NADH and TMG are doing a good job treating my atypical depression, I find myself in need of some anger management (in tablet form) and some anti-anal medication. In my previous life (before psychotropic medications), I managed my anger, anal, and depressive symptoms fairly well with a rigorous three-hour-a-day workout routine. Exercise didn't totally take away all the symptoms, but overall it did pretty good job. And I think that would work again, but it's hard to get there from the poor state of conditioning I currently find myself.
>
> So I'm thinking about experimenting with some meds for treatment of the anger/anal issues. After I get my exercise routine back in place I might be able to discontinue or reduce any such medication. For the past month or so, I've been using a few milligrams of 5-HTP under my tongue PRN when I get angry. It works, but only for an hour or so. If I started to take higher dosages of 5-HTP on a more frequent basis, I suspect it would loose its effectiveness altogether.
>
> Here’re the options I’m currently considering as add-on to my 600 mg/day of Lithobid and my OTC supplements:
>
> Neurontin
>
> Trileptal
>
> Depakote (low dosage only because it caused hair loss, rash, weight gain, and increased depression when I took it years ago at 750 mg/day).
>
> MAOI
>
> Benzo
>
> AP
>
> Prozac (Dare I say it?! Maybe about three mg per day? Maybe the Enada NADH will counteract the adverse dopaminergic effects?)
>
>
> I’d really rather not put any of these man-made drugs in my body (let alone the cost of this stuff to my self-insured pocketbook) but, at the same time neither my wife nor myself are satisfied with a rage-o-holic, anal retentive, SOB living with us.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> > If you do venture over this side of the puddle, give me a yell and we can go visit Ron's new gogo bar in Kings Cross, London....
>
> Yes, please do bring John-John (johnj) to the club. Remember to bring your money, however. The cover charge applies to everyone, even my good friends. Also bear in mind that touching the dancers is strictly prohibited.
>
> -- Ron
>
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