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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3685 to 3709 of 10407. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 3, 2003, at 18:58:46
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated » Sean9, posted by luckyspec on April 3, 2003, at 1:45:28
> You have not taken responsibility of yourself and allowed a drug to mask your illness. Now after you take a little responsibility for yourself and look to get off the drug, you learn it is very difficult. Yes, responsibility is a burden of truth. Most can not handle it...that is why you choose to be victims.
Different points of view are fine, and in fact encouraged, but please be sensitive to the feelings of others and don't post anything that could lead them to feel accused or put down, thanks.
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies, and complaints about posts, should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration; otherwise, they may be deleted.
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 3, 2003, at 19:24:45
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated luckyspec, posted by DeeDee46 on April 3, 2003, at 18:00:28
> Why would you be so mean and judgemental with someone when all you know about them is what they put?
> I am here for support not to be slammed. And certainly not to judge someone who is in the midst of thier fire.
>
> I know that you have not taken medication before. I can always tell.
>
> you are so sad.
>
> Dee Dee 46> Your the sick little man
>
> Napaba> You have obviously never suffered from depression
>
> Jack Smith> Obviously you have never been so low that you don't think anything can help-not even the meds.
>
> KRM123> You post is sarcastic, derogatory and just plain mean.
>
> lovemybabiesPlease be sensitive to the feelings of others -- even if they hurt yours. Please don't jump to conclusions about them or their experiences. Please don't slam them, judge them, or post anything else that could lead them to feel accused or put down. Remember the mission of this site, support and education, and the golden rule:
http://www.silcom.com/~origin/sbcr/sbcr233
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Paco on April 3, 2003, at 20:59:45
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated luckyspec » KRM123, posted by luckyspec on April 3, 2003, at 16:50:15
You obviously know little or nothing about long-term clinical depression. It's not just "being sad". Anti-depressants are not "happy pills"; they do not prevent one from being sad when appropriate - they relieve some of the symptoms of depression. These are two entrely different things.
Personally, I'd appreciate it if you would just get lost and stop trolling for flames.
Any other messages with your name displayed will be ignored.
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 3, 2003, at 21:05:24
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated » Sean9, posted by luckyspec on April 3, 2003, at 1:45:28
luckyspec,
You wrote,[...want an easy solution...not willing to work on yourself...].
It appears to me that you are advocating an alternative to the use of psychotropic drugs to deal with depression. Could you expouse on what your alternative is? If you could, then I could have a better understanding of your post and have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
Lou
Posted by Paco on April 3, 2003, at 21:56:29
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
Just looking for a few positive words about EXR (besides my own). If you have read any of my previous posts, you can tell that I'm biased in the pro-EXR direction - it's working for me where other meds haven't, and the side effects were brief and insignificant. And I'm living again.
*(P.S. Sorry if I offended anyone with my last post. Should have taken a day to cool off before posting that one.)
Posted by KRM123 on April 3, 2003, at 22:27:55
In reply to Re: please be civil » Napaba » Jack » KRM123 » lmb » DeeDee46, posted by Dr. Bob on April 3, 2003, at 19:24:45
sorry if I was unkind
Posted by KRM123 on April 3, 2003, at 22:32:57
In reply to Effexor XR sucesses?, posted by Paco on April 3, 2003, at 21:56:29
Yes- please keep the Effexor XR POSITIVE EXPERIENCES coming. I am starting tomorrow on 37.5mg. Kind of nervous/scared about it. I know I need to try it for myself before I make any judements. Any inspiration would be nice! Thanks
Posted by Paco on April 3, 2003, at 23:07:07
In reply to Re: Effexor XR sucesses?, posted by KRM123 on April 3, 2003, at 22:32:57
Don't be scared about it. And I'd say if you experience side effects as you start on it, don't get too worried - they often go away in a couple of weeks. (As I've said in past posts, my side effects were minor and only lasted four days.) Wait until you've been on it at your full dosage for 4-6 weeks before judging it.
What are you taking it for?
Have you tried other meds before?
Just curious.
Paco
=======================================================
> Yes- please keep the Effexor XR POSITIVE EXPERIENCES coming. I am starting tomorrow on 37.5mg. Kind of nervous/scared about it. I know I need to try it for myself before I make any judements. Any inspiration would be nice! Thanks
>
Posted by jtc on April 3, 2003, at 23:39:30
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated » luckyspec, posted by Napaba on April 3, 2003, at 7:36:02
Luckyspec, you are the "sick litte man". Your comments are offensive and by the way does the song "Ramble On" sound familiar to you? That is pretty much what you did in your post...
> Your the sick little man luckyspec. GET SOME PROFESSIONAL HELP!!!
>
> The FDA cares not of your troubles.
> >
> > You have not taken responsibility of yourself and allowed a drug to mask your illness. Now after you take a little responsibility for yourself and look to get off the drug, you learn it is very difficult. Yes, responsibility is a burden of truth. Most can not handle it...that is why you choose to be victims. Go on and live your life. Be happy, live healthy lives...but do not come to me with a problem that you could have prevented. You cause your own problems, little man.
> >
> > Prevention is a foreign word to you isn't it?
> > You must treat the symptoms..you say. They are important. You lose sight of the cause, and allow others to control you, to tell you what to do and how you can solve your problem. But you do not wish to nor care to take responsibility for yourself and search deep within to find out the real trouble that disturbs you.
> >
> > You are really sick but you wish not to confront your illness but to hide it. Go on hiding it, little man, you will soon become a zombie, a robot like being, a shadow of your former self. But you say, 'I feel different now, more alive'. Do you really, or is it the 'drugs' making you numb to life and causing you to think you are high on life and feeling better. Reality hits you hard, little man, when you take yourself of the pills and you begin to notice the depth of your troubles. You are really sick, little man.
> >
> > How can you go on and accept your fate, little man? How do you go on living life as such and enjoy being the victim? How do you not take responsibility of your own body? Deny yourself pleasure and accept pain as your destiny, then mask it even more and hide under the covers of the night sleeping long and lonely nights.
> >
> > Why should be the question. The why is really more important then the how. If you have the why, the how finds itself. But you don't know why, little man, do you? You sit there and victimize yourself, you little man. I feel sorry for you, and I feel that I can help you...but I can't. I have learned that the only person that can be helped is one that wants help. Also a stronger character is needed in order to know that popping pills is like drinking alcohol to drown your sorrow. You must therefore be of strong enough will to take a step toward the truth and find out for yourself that drugs simply mask your problem. You do have a problem...yes, it is deeply rooted. But not since birth, you can not deny your faulty logic when you talk about your chemical imbalance at age 15 or so and then say that drugs helped you. You were not imbalanced before then, why should you need drugs.
> >
> > Go on taking synthetics, which polute your body and make you more ill then before. The industry of drugs wants you to. But why should I tell you something you already know...you know they want you to be ill because without illness there would not exist an FDA nor the Pharmaceutical industry, and no need would arise to create one. But I won't tell you this. It is something you don't wish to hear. You are ill and want an easy solution, but you are not willing to work on yourself, really work. You want the problem solved in a moments notice. You are a consumer. Go on consuming your own shit little man. Your own troubles will be spouted right from your depth of sorrow. These consumed 'goods' will become your end, and are your sick beginning.
> >
> > "You're sick, little man, very sick. It's not your fault; but it's your responsibility to get well." - Wilhelm Reich
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by jtc on April 3, 2003, at 23:49:41
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated, posted by DeeDee46 on April 3, 2003, at 15:47:58
> Again, I will repeat myself. If I could of taken a natural herb or did anything besides take an antidpressant.. I would of done so.. period. I tried it, it didnt work.Everything in life can be abused from food even on to herbs. Do we need to be aware of all of this? YES.! I have watched family members who have been deathly sick with an illness take a medication that is controversial and HAS SIDE effects be able to go on with life and HAVE QUALITY!!!! It is my prayer that you do not have to go through this someday. I promise you if you do,,, you will live to regret some of things you are saying.
> I am not one to argue. Again, this is for support. You have a lot of postive energy to give to someone. I know of tons of homeless shelters that could use it or homes for runaway teens. Anything. I could go on and on. You have stated your point. Again this is for support. End of discussion with you.Right on Dee Dee. Good going...
Posted by jtc on April 3, 2003, at 23:52:40
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated, posted by lovemybabies on April 3, 2003, at 16:53:45
> Holy crap. What reason would you have for calling those who have success w/Effexor "little man?" You post is sarcastic, derogatory and just plain mean.
love my babies, I could not have said it better myself. Thank you, jtc
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 4, 2003, at 0:17:21
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated, posted by jtc on April 3, 2003, at 23:39:30
> you are the "sick litte man".
Please be sensitive to the feelings of others and don't post anything that could lead them to feel accused or put down, thanks.
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 4, 2003, at 0:18:20
In reply to Re: sorry, posted by KRM123 on April 3, 2003, at 22:27:55
Posted by Sean9 on April 4, 2003, at 4:47:13
In reply to Re: thanks » Paco (nm) » KRM123, posted by Dr. Bob on April 4, 2003, at 0:18:20
As for positive experiences with starting and staying on Effexor, I have heard and seen many people say it is the most effective med they've taken to help them deal with their depression. Many people have posted that it worked even when other popular meds didn't. Much of the research points to the fact that Effexor effects two to three chemicals in your body, which may be why it has the best track record of treating depression.
If you are just starting Effexor, just make sure you don't ever miss a dosage, take it at the same time each day, and see what works better for you (taking at night or in the morning, for us it was more tolerable at night). We saw results start in a couple of weeks, with probably a full effect after 6 weeks.
As I've said before, it is everyone's right to live a happy and meaningful life. And in the spirit of that, I won't add my positive message about Effexor without the bad. The withdrawal effects are horrible (second worst med to withdrawal next to Paxil as rated by some medical communities) and you will experience them the first day you forget your meds. Just be prepared and read everything (good, bad, otherwise) before you start your medication. Also, I'd recommend exploring any other meds that have less severe withdrawal effects and longer half-lifes (like Prozac or Welbutrin) with your doctor before you start something 'heavy' like Effexor.
Again, congrats on deciding to live a happy life and doing something to help get you there. And remember that we're all made up of chemical reactions anyway, you're just trying to find the right one's for you.
Posted by DeeDee46 on April 4, 2003, at 5:18:37
In reply to So anyway..., posted by Sean9 on April 4, 2003, at 4:47:13
Effeoxr XR is the first medicine that I also took that really helped me. It appears that most doctors start you on 37.5 mg. than up it as needed. If you can somehow relax and just try not to focus on it, you will be ok. It will either work or not work so do not worry about anything bad happening. I know what you are going through tho and it is scarey starting a new medicine. I had some minor wieght gain with increased in appetite when I got to 75mg. But I wieghed feeling "good" and let it go. I pick my battles with this depression. It was a miracle drug in my case to me. I am very thankful for it as it helped me feel whole again. Now, I am to the point where my doctor thinks I may not need it anymore and experimenting with differnt dosages and weaning a bit. I feel as though the weaning is similar to when you first go on,, just backwards. So, hang in there. Do the best that you can do to live a quality of life and try not to worry. I know that is hard.
I am here for you.
Take care.
DeeDee46
Posted by melley on April 4, 2003, at 6:19:35
In reply to Re: Effexor XR sucesses?, posted by KRM123 on April 3, 2003, at 22:32:57
> Yes- please keep the Effexor XR POSITIVE EXPERIENCES coming. I am starting tomorrow on 37.5mg. Kind of nervous/scared about it. I know I need to try it for myself before I make any judements. Any inspiration would be nice! Thanks
>
I hope you have a positive experience with effexor. I am on 225 mg a day. I have mostly positive feelings about it although have gained 20 lbs I can't seem to get rid of. I have heard if you are very careful about what you eat and exercising right from the start you can avoid that. I was on Paxil before several years ago and it made me very tired. Then I was on effexor for a year and went off for several years. To tell you the truth I didn't find the withdrawal that bad. I felt shaky and flu-like for a week and then it was over. But everyone reacts differently.As to remarks about not taking meds, my dr told me that if you take meds for a year and the go off and have a relapse (worse in my case) then you most likely need to be on it for the rest of your life to balance out the imbalance in your brain. I would give anything not to have depression and anxiety and to not have to take meds. But I also have to make a living and raise my children.
Good luck.
Posted by Napaba on April 4, 2003, at 9:22:14
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated luckyspec, posted by luckyspec on April 3, 2003, at 17:44:50
Luckyspec, If you don't personnally suffer from depression and anxiety, why don't you just monitor the site and see what those who do suffer from depression and anxiety have to say.
I've had a problem with depression as long as I can remember. Your childhood sounds good to me. If all I had to do was fight with my sister, be belittled and listen to my parents fight I probably wouldn't be on medication either. Your list is just the beginning of mine. I was raped, got pregnant, had a baby, put it up for adoption, but wasn't ever allowed to talk about any of it. This all happened 23 years ago and I still regret not keeping the baby, who just turned 23 March 23rd. I know where he is and I send him birthday cards, but I never hear from him.
When I first went to the doctor, I told him I just felt horrible there had to be something wrong with me. I cried all the time, was always tired, slept whenever I could, yelled at my children, was anxious about everything and depressed no matter what. I had thought about suicide, but decided I didn't want my EX raising my children. The final straw was when I thought about driving off a bridge with my kids.
After I started taking meds, my mother tried to make me feel that I was stupid for taking them, and had no reason to be depressed. My church told me I wasn't praying enough. Thank God my doctor was a christian and helped me to see things differently. The way I look at it, is God sent me to a doctor to get the medical help I needed.
I have no reason to be depressed. I have a great husband, three wonderful children, a job I love, a beautiful home in a peacefull community. I still cry and feel sorrow, but I don't cry because the grass needs to be cut, I'm late for church, etc. I still cry when I hear a sad song on the radio, or I hear about the soldiers who have given their lives in Iraq. When it's Christmas and birthdays I feel joy and I can laugh, where before I couldn't.
Every couple of years I decide I don't need to be on medication anymore and stop taking it. I can usually go a year without it and then I have to go back on it.
My family is most important to me. If my taking a pill each day makes their lives better then it's worth it.
I hope my story helps you better understand depression, it's not a choice.
I obviously do miss the point.
> I am only trying to learn about depression more deeply. This is why I am going to do research on history of depression to find out where the root of depression started.
>
> I have heard that depression is caused by the inability to deal with one's own problems. Perhaps this is true. If it is not so I know even less about depression.
>
> I leave you all to your state, and I trully can not help you. You are outside my circle of influence. I am only trying to help someone close to me with their depression. I am really very sorry if I have caused you any pain at all and will not try to influence you.
>
> I also know depression is not about happiness or sadness. The Tao is simply an example. Perhaps you can read some taoism. It really helped me once. As to my family..they are the ones that caused me to be more depressed. I was always yelled at by my mother, and my father didn't really care to help me with anything when I was younger. My parents constantly fought and I fought with my sister. I did have a great family right DeeDee? Am I lucky...?
> Things have changed since then. My parents divorced and I live with a roommate and out of my mothers house. She is depressed also, but misses yelling at me. Yet I love her and I want to help her. She does not take drugs, but she is different then you perhaps she doesn't have as many problems as you.
>
> I am also trying to help a friend of mine who is on Effexor. That is why I am here. Not to influence you. It was my mistake to even try. I simply want to deeply understand depression. But I believe that it will be impossible unless I am depressed as you. I can't make myself depressed. That is what I heard.
>
> Also the chemical imbalance is caused by having soo many problems that one can not deal with. I am dealing with mine, and can not begin to stop dealing with them, so I more likely will not be depressed ever as I want to be. I do get sad at times. It is normal. But I will never understand your depression as you do. I only wish to help those I care about, without them having to hurt their mind, body, and spirit.
>
> Really, I am sorry you have to go through life carrying such a burden. I can not help you. I have learned that much, that I can only help those who allow me to help. I allow myself to help myself.
>
> I am sick also, I do not know what it is, but I have something in my throat that has been there for 3 years or so. I guess it is psychosomatic. So I am dealing with it. But I will not take a drug that will make me lose my sex function or make me tired or hurt my bones. That is just speaking for myself. I am not just talking about Effexor. I do not need it. I could take something like Advil to stop some of the feeling in my throat. But I will find a way. I know that our emotions are stored in muscles and I know that there is some problem that I have not brought to the surface. I will.
>
> But I am not going to tell you what to do. Please do not listen to me. Only discover the true problems of your life, and begin to deal with one at a time. Until that happens you do need the drugs...unfortunately. I just wonder how people treated depression when there was no drug industry...That is a great question.
Posted by japonica on April 4, 2003, at 9:42:46
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated » Sean9, posted by luckyspec on April 3, 2003, at 1:45:28
I'll assume you will convey your beliefs about medication and its professed, but errant, ability to control illness to your doctor when you are diagnosed with high blood pressure, heart disease, cancer, diabetes, or any number of serious medical illnesses like depression.
You are grievously uninformed. Please take the time to expand *your* mind and truly educate yourself about depression before you or someone you love needs your support.
Thanks
japonica
Posted by japonica on April 4, 2003, at 10:01:36
In reply to Effexor XR sucesses?, posted by Paco on April 3, 2003, at 21:56:29
I have had *great* success with Effexor XR. Had virtually no side effects when starting and continue to feel well. I have put on some weight after an initial loss but it's manageable. If that's the worst thing that happens in the course of my year it's been a pretty good one. I've been on it for 6 months and have slowly ramped up to 150 mgs. a day taken at mid-morning. This is where I plan to stay.
I took Prozac a while back. Had much success. I stopped then started again and the second time 'round it no longer worked. This is a commom occurence as I've come to understand. I tried Zoloft right before the Effexor and did not like it at all. It left me feeling very foggy and sluggish. Hope this helps.
Best to all. Thanks for the support you all provide.
japonica
Posted by DeeDee46 on April 4, 2003, at 10:20:18
In reply to Re: Effexor XR sucesses?, posted by japonica on April 4, 2003, at 10:01:36
You are going to be fine........ I can tell. Good Luck!!! I agree,,,,a weight gain is just a cross in the road.....
DeeDee46
Posted by KRM123 on April 4, 2003, at 11:28:03
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated luckyspec » luckyspec, posted by Napaba on April 4, 2003, at 9:22:14
Wow- I just wanted to tell you that I thought your post was amazing. Thank you for sharing- it brought a tear to my eye. I agree with everything you said. God Bless
Posted by KRM123 on April 4, 2003, at 11:46:20
In reply to Re: Effexor XR sucesses? » KRM123, posted by Paco on April 3, 2003, at 23:07:07
Thanks Paco
The Dr. says I have double depression- a condition in which a major depressive disorder is superimposed upon a dysthymic disorder.
I have tried Prozac and Zoloft in the past- prob for only gave them 2 months each before I discovered weight gain and not really making a difference.
At the beginning of March I tried Wellbutrin for 2 weeks and it messed me up bad- horrible experience...I think my dose was too high. From there I went straight to Lexapro- 3 weeks on that but I'm done with it cause it makes me so tired.
Now it's off to Effexor.
Posted by Napaba on April 4, 2003, at 13:34:46
In reply to Re: Effexor XR sucesses?Paco, posted by KRM123 on April 4, 2003, at 11:46:20
> Give Effexor a chance. I've tried Wellbutrin, Prozac, and Paxil. I gained weight on all three. I've been on Effexor for about 10 weeks and have lost 23 pounds. I didn't start losing until I was on it for 3 weeks.
Also think about why you eat. Do you eat because your depressed and/or anxious, if you do the medication should help once it lessons your depression and anxiety.
I've also been on a diet like Atkins. Low carb is the way to go. You get to eat more and are full.
Thanks Paco
>
> The Dr. says I have double depression- a condition in which a major depressive disorder is superimposed upon a dysthymic disorder.
>
> I have tried Prozac and Zoloft in the past- prob for only gave them 2 months each before I discovered weight gain and not really making a difference.
>
> At the beginning of March I tried Wellbutrin for 2 weeks and it messed me up bad- horrible experience...I think my dose was too high. From there I went straight to Lexapro- 3 weeks on that but I'm done with it cause it makes me so tired.
>
> Now it's off to Effexor.
>
Posted by DeeDee46 on April 4, 2003, at 13:41:47
In reply to Re: Effexor XR sucesses?Paco » KRM123, posted by Napaba on April 4, 2003, at 13:34:46
Yes.. give effexor a fair chance.. I wish I would of lost weight. I gained but I am also eating low carbs and more protein and it is working slowly. But that is ok.
I didnt eat more because of emotions. I was so hungry all the time and my psych told me that can happen with it. When I went down to 37.5mg, I noticed a big change in my appetite. So maybe in time, I can get my weight to where it is supposed to be. However, I would take weight over depression any day. If I feel good, at least I can go out and walk.
Hang in there
DeeDee46
Posted by melley on April 4, 2003, at 15:22:54
In reply to Re: Effexor XR sucesses?Paco » KRM123, posted by Napaba on April 4, 2003, at 13:34:46
Hi all,
I was thinking of asking my Dr. if I could switch to welbutrin. What has been people's experience with this drug?
Also, there was an excellent program on depression on the Dianne Rehm show on NPR this morning. You can listen to it by going to the NPR website and then to the Diane Rehm show.
Thanks
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