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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3673 to 3697 of 10407. Go back in thread:
Posted by luckyspec on April 3, 2003, at 15:25:47
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated, posted by DeeDee46 on April 3, 2003, at 14:12:40
I understand that one can sink into a state of utter misery. Then rely on someone hoping they have your best interest at heart and ignoring what other people experience in hope that it will work for you.
The Pharmaceutical industry's main concern is to make you more ill. It is not in the interest of the Pharmaceutical industry to prevent illness, but to profit from your symptoms. If you have no symptoms, the drug industry would not exist. Preventive medicine is a threat to this industry.
http://www4.dr-rath-foundation.org/PHARMACEUTICAL_BUSINESS/laws_of_the_pharmaceutical_industry.htm
________________________________________USA Today March 6, 2003
Page 10A,Attempts to overcome the unsolvable scientific conflicts.
The Bush administration is spearheading an international effort by the pharmaceutical industry to outlaw natural health therapies worldwide by abusing the United Nations Codex Alimentarius (food standards) commission.Attempts to overcome the unsolvable legal conflicts.
A key provision of the Homeland Security Act grants immunity to the pharmaceutical companies for present adn future product liability claims for vaccines. Further plans for medical litigation reform include limiting product liability lawsuits against drug companies.
________________________________________Do you know of the lawsuits that are springing up like wild flowers in the drug industry?-
(Bayer-March 27-
http://biz.yahoo.com/djus/030327/0458000614_1.html
)It is because people do know the dangers of drugs, and are just now taking more responsibility for themselves. I congratulate those of you who are trying to take yourselves off of Effexor. Really I am proud of you because you are taking responsibility even though it is post fact. It is good in that.
The pharmaceutical industry is failing the human body. People would not see that. People would rather polute their body because the doctor told them it is good for them. Ask your doctor if he is paid to prescribe you medicine and see what he says. The more the doctor prescribes the more he makes.
I understand that you want a cure. But do you really want to sacrifice your entire body's health? If you want support, wonderful.
Consider that organic living is healthier for the body. Maybe you prefer to believe that a mechanistic approach to a human body will work for you.
For example, if a machine is broken, all you have to do is find the broken part and replace it. That works with mechanics. Well maybe you can find yourself new joints to replace the ones you are damaging with drugs...as you say...would that not be along the lines of mechanics. It is no joke, and neither is your illness.
Mechanical science can not possibly solve the problem of disease. We have a plague of troubles such as sexual dysfunction, sleep disorders, diabetes, depression, cancer, and the list goes on and on. How much has your drug company really helped to get rid of these illnesses? I am curious. Because all I hear is that the doctor wants you to take a medicine for 'life'.
Medicine is taken for a short period of time. Until you are healthy. If you take medicine when you are healthy you will become ill. I do not see how a drug that addicts you makes you better.
If you want more information-look at USA Today March 6th edition on page 10A.
Posted by DeeDee46 on April 3, 2003, at 15:47:58
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated » DeeDee46, posted by luckyspec on April 3, 2003, at 15:25:47
Again, I will repeat myself. If I could of taken a natural herb or did anything besides take an antidpressant.. I would of done so.. period. I tried it, it didnt work.Everything in life can be abused from food even on to herbs. Do we need to be aware of all of this? YES.! I have watched family members who have been deathly sick with an illness take a medication that is controversial and HAS SIDE effects be able to go on with life and HAVE QUALITY!!!! It is my prayer that you do not have to go through this someday. I promise you if you do,,, you will live to regret some of things you are saying.
I am not one to argue. Again, this is for support. You have a lot of postive energy to give to someone. I know of tons of homeless shelters that could use it or homes for runaway teens. Anything. I could go on and on. You have stated your point. Again this is for support. End of discussion with you.
Posted by KRM123 on April 3, 2003, at 16:16:11
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated » Sean9, posted by luckyspec on April 3, 2003, at 1:45:28
Thank you luckyspec- I now feel more depressed after reading your post. Obviously you have never been so low that you don't think anything can help-not even the meds. It took me a long time to come out of denial about my depression. I always told myself that I could get better on my own . My parents took meds and I was somewhat asshamed of them- thinking they weren't "strong" enough or maybe too lazy to do get better by themselves.
Soon I was at a point where helping myself could not even be considered an option. I have no idea how I got to that point and never thought I would. It's weird how you can feel so helpless and switch all your beliefs around cause you're so desperate. I always wanted to do everything naturally- no drugs!! I wanted to lose weight naturally, eat only natural foods and of course make myself happy.
With my parents encourgement I decided to give medicine a chance. To this day I've tried four AD's but have never been on them long enough to achieve the happiness that I long for because of weight gain or unbearable side effects starting.
I am not giving up yet though- I have faith that something will help! I know I can't soley rely on the drug alone and have to be strong and fight the depression. I will take anything to help me get on the right road... I don't plan on being on AD's forever, but will if that's what it takes then fine-- I just need to be helped out of this hole I am unable to crawl out of. Hopefully something will help me feel better and I will be able to practice those feelings until I am confident to feel "happy" on my own. AD's can be looked at as coaches- you are learning a new sport (happiness) and need the coaches help to get you better, so you practice and practice with the coach until you are ready to go out and play a game. If you win the game you can go on to practice by yourself...and if you lose you may need to go back for the coaches assistance.
Everyone is different- of course we know this. We call react to meds differently, our illnesses aren't exactly the same and some cope better than others.
Life is too short to mope around and wonder if you're ever going to get better- take all the help you can get =) DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THE HELP IS AS LONG AS YOU'RE HAPPY!
God Bless Everyone.
Posted by luckyspec on April 3, 2003, at 16:50:15
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated luckyspec, posted by KRM123 on April 3, 2003, at 16:16:11
If you are sad, feel sadness.
If you are happy, feel happy.Tao
I am just curious what is so great about feeling happy all the time.
Without sadness one does not know happiness. Duality is necessary. This way you appreciate both sadness and happiness equally. It is imposible to stay sad forever. It is impossible. Try to hold a bucket of water at your side for a very long time. You will soon begin to feel tired and the bucket will fall. Nothing is eternal. What goes up must come down and vice versa.
Life must move and so it becomes depressed and then grows stronger, and healthier after the depression. I would not wish to know that I could never become sad...sadness is a blessing. It gives you a deeper appreciation of happiness.
I have wanted to kill myself once. But then I didn't because I knew if I kill myself I would hurt my family. I had no purpose in life. Nothing to live for. What is the purpose of being alive? I consoled myself knowing fully well about reincarnation. I am not afraid of dying.
I am afraid of not feeling alive.
Posted by lovemybabies on April 3, 2003, at 16:53:45
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated » Sean9, posted by luckyspec on April 3, 2003, at 1:45:28
Holy crap. What reason would you have for calling those who have success w/Effexor "little man?" You post is sarcastic, derogatory and just plain mean.
Posted by DeeDee46 on April 3, 2003, at 16:56:58
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated luckyspec, posted by KRM123 on April 3, 2003, at 16:16:11
KUDOS TO YOU MY FRIEND. . hang in there. I have been there and will be here for you..... Sometimes weight gain tapers off????
Dee Dee 46
Posted by DeeDee46 on April 3, 2003, at 17:05:22
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated luckyspec » KRM123, posted by luckyspec on April 3, 2003, at 16:50:15
IT IS NOT ABOUT FEELING HAPPY>....A lot of people go through times of despair and want to kill themselves. That is not what this is..
You really need to educate yourself.
DeeDee46
Posted by KRM123 on April 3, 2003, at 17:24:39
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated luckyspec » KRM123, posted by luckyspec on April 3, 2003, at 16:50:15
Wow I am not even going to try to explain myself...again. You're totally missing the point. I'm glad that you did not committ suicide and was able to heal on your own and be happy. You must have a very good family and friends. You sure are LUCKY.
Posted by KRM123 on April 3, 2003, at 17:26:31
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated luckyspec, posted by DeeDee46 on April 3, 2003, at 16:56:58
Thank you DeeDee. I am here for you too!
Posted by DeeDee46 on April 3, 2003, at 17:36:32
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated, posted by lovemybabies on April 3, 2003, at 16:53:45
Hey love my babies..... You are right on.
Education is needed there.
Walk a mile in my shoes ring a bell?
DEEDEE46
Posted by luckyspec on April 3, 2003, at 17:44:50
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated luckyspec, posted by KRM123 on April 3, 2003, at 17:24:39
I obviously do miss the point.
I am only trying to learn about depression more deeply. This is why I am going to do research on history of depression to find out where the root of depression started.I have heard that depression is caused by the inability to deal with one's own problems. Perhaps this is true. If it is not so I know even less about depression.
I leave you all to your state, and I trully can not help you. You are outside my circle of influence. I am only trying to help someone close to me with their depression. I am really very sorry if I have caused you any pain at all and will not try to influence you.
I also know depression is not about happiness or sadness. The Tao is simply an example. Perhaps you can read some taoism. It really helped me once. As to my family..they are the ones that caused me to be more depressed. I was always yelled at by my mother, and my father didn't really care to help me with anything when I was younger. My parents constantly fought and I fought with my sister. I did have a great family right DeeDee? Am I lucky...?
Things have changed since then. My parents divorced and I live with a roommate and out of my mothers house. She is depressed also, but misses yelling at me. Yet I love her and I want to help her. She does not take drugs, but she is different then you perhaps she doesn't have as many problems as you.I am also trying to help a friend of mine who is on Effexor. That is why I am here. Not to influence you. It was my mistake to even try. I simply want to deeply understand depression. But I believe that it will be impossible unless I am depressed as you. I can't make myself depressed. That is what I heard.
Also the chemical imbalance is caused by having soo many problems that one can not deal with. I am dealing with mine, and can not begin to stop dealing with them, so I more likely will not be depressed ever as I want to be. I do get sad at times. It is normal. But I will never understand your depression as you do. I only wish to help those I care about, without them having to hurt their mind, body, and spirit.
Really, I am sorry you have to go through life carrying such a burden. I can not help you. I have learned that much, that I can only help those who allow me to help. I allow myself to help myself.
I am sick also, I do not know what it is, but I have something in my throat that has been there for 3 years or so. I guess it is psychosomatic. So I am dealing with it. But I will not take a drug that will make me lose my sex function or make me tired or hurt my bones. That is just speaking for myself. I am not just talking about Effexor. I do not need it. I could take something like Advil to stop some of the feeling in my throat. But I will find a way. I know that our emotions are stored in muscles and I know that there is some problem that I have not brought to the surface. I will.
But I am not going to tell you what to do. Please do not listen to me. Only discover the true problems of your life, and begin to deal with one at a time. Until that happens you do need the drugs...unfortunately. I just wonder how people treated depression when there was no drug industry...That is a great question.
Posted by DeeDee46 on April 3, 2003, at 18:00:28
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated luckyspec, posted by luckyspec on April 3, 2003, at 17:44:50
LAUGHING OUT LOUD!!!!!!!!LOL Oh my. you are really something. As sick as me.... you are so sad. I am professional woman who owns my own company, own and paid off my own home, do not owe momey on a car and have a wonderful fulfilling God Blessed Life. And I suffer from depression. I bet I could even guess your age.
But I will not. I am praying for you brother. I really am.
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 3, 2003, at 18:58:46
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated » Sean9, posted by luckyspec on April 3, 2003, at 1:45:28
> You have not taken responsibility of yourself and allowed a drug to mask your illness. Now after you take a little responsibility for yourself and look to get off the drug, you learn it is very difficult. Yes, responsibility is a burden of truth. Most can not handle it...that is why you choose to be victims.
Different points of view are fine, and in fact encouraged, but please be sensitive to the feelings of others and don't post anything that could lead them to feel accused or put down, thanks.
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies, and complaints about posts, should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration; otherwise, they may be deleted.
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 3, 2003, at 19:24:45
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated luckyspec, posted by DeeDee46 on April 3, 2003, at 18:00:28
> Why would you be so mean and judgemental with someone when all you know about them is what they put?
> I am here for support not to be slammed. And certainly not to judge someone who is in the midst of thier fire.
>
> I know that you have not taken medication before. I can always tell.
>
> you are so sad.
>
> Dee Dee 46> Your the sick little man
>
> Napaba> You have obviously never suffered from depression
>
> Jack Smith> Obviously you have never been so low that you don't think anything can help-not even the meds.
>
> KRM123> You post is sarcastic, derogatory and just plain mean.
>
> lovemybabiesPlease be sensitive to the feelings of others -- even if they hurt yours. Please don't jump to conclusions about them or their experiences. Please don't slam them, judge them, or post anything else that could lead them to feel accused or put down. Remember the mission of this site, support and education, and the golden rule:
http://www.silcom.com/~origin/sbcr/sbcr233
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Paco on April 3, 2003, at 20:59:45
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated luckyspec » KRM123, posted by luckyspec on April 3, 2003, at 16:50:15
You obviously know little or nothing about long-term clinical depression. It's not just "being sad". Anti-depressants are not "happy pills"; they do not prevent one from being sad when appropriate - they relieve some of the symptoms of depression. These are two entrely different things.
Personally, I'd appreciate it if you would just get lost and stop trolling for flames.
Any other messages with your name displayed will be ignored.
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 3, 2003, at 21:05:24
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated » Sean9, posted by luckyspec on April 3, 2003, at 1:45:28
luckyspec,
You wrote,[...want an easy solution...not willing to work on yourself...].
It appears to me that you are advocating an alternative to the use of psychotropic drugs to deal with depression. Could you expouse on what your alternative is? If you could, then I could have a better understanding of your post and have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
Lou
Posted by Paco on April 3, 2003, at 21:56:29
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
Just looking for a few positive words about EXR (besides my own). If you have read any of my previous posts, you can tell that I'm biased in the pro-EXR direction - it's working for me where other meds haven't, and the side effects were brief and insignificant. And I'm living again.
*(P.S. Sorry if I offended anyone with my last post. Should have taken a day to cool off before posting that one.)
Posted by KRM123 on April 3, 2003, at 22:27:55
In reply to Re: please be civil » Napaba » Jack » KRM123 » lmb » DeeDee46, posted by Dr. Bob on April 3, 2003, at 19:24:45
sorry if I was unkind
Posted by KRM123 on April 3, 2003, at 22:32:57
In reply to Effexor XR sucesses?, posted by Paco on April 3, 2003, at 21:56:29
Yes- please keep the Effexor XR POSITIVE EXPERIENCES coming. I am starting tomorrow on 37.5mg. Kind of nervous/scared about it. I know I need to try it for myself before I make any judements. Any inspiration would be nice! Thanks
Posted by Paco on April 3, 2003, at 23:07:07
In reply to Re: Effexor XR sucesses?, posted by KRM123 on April 3, 2003, at 22:32:57
Don't be scared about it. And I'd say if you experience side effects as you start on it, don't get too worried - they often go away in a couple of weeks. (As I've said in past posts, my side effects were minor and only lasted four days.) Wait until you've been on it at your full dosage for 4-6 weeks before judging it.
What are you taking it for?
Have you tried other meds before?
Just curious.
Paco
=======================================================
> Yes- please keep the Effexor XR POSITIVE EXPERIENCES coming. I am starting tomorrow on 37.5mg. Kind of nervous/scared about it. I know I need to try it for myself before I make any judements. Any inspiration would be nice! Thanks
>
Posted by jtc on April 3, 2003, at 23:39:30
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated » luckyspec, posted by Napaba on April 3, 2003, at 7:36:02
Luckyspec, you are the "sick litte man". Your comments are offensive and by the way does the song "Ramble On" sound familiar to you? That is pretty much what you did in your post...
> Your the sick little man luckyspec. GET SOME PROFESSIONAL HELP!!!
>
> The FDA cares not of your troubles.
> >
> > You have not taken responsibility of yourself and allowed a drug to mask your illness. Now after you take a little responsibility for yourself and look to get off the drug, you learn it is very difficult. Yes, responsibility is a burden of truth. Most can not handle it...that is why you choose to be victims. Go on and live your life. Be happy, live healthy lives...but do not come to me with a problem that you could have prevented. You cause your own problems, little man.
> >
> > Prevention is a foreign word to you isn't it?
> > You must treat the symptoms..you say. They are important. You lose sight of the cause, and allow others to control you, to tell you what to do and how you can solve your problem. But you do not wish to nor care to take responsibility for yourself and search deep within to find out the real trouble that disturbs you.
> >
> > You are really sick but you wish not to confront your illness but to hide it. Go on hiding it, little man, you will soon become a zombie, a robot like being, a shadow of your former self. But you say, 'I feel different now, more alive'. Do you really, or is it the 'drugs' making you numb to life and causing you to think you are high on life and feeling better. Reality hits you hard, little man, when you take yourself of the pills and you begin to notice the depth of your troubles. You are really sick, little man.
> >
> > How can you go on and accept your fate, little man? How do you go on living life as such and enjoy being the victim? How do you not take responsibility of your own body? Deny yourself pleasure and accept pain as your destiny, then mask it even more and hide under the covers of the night sleeping long and lonely nights.
> >
> > Why should be the question. The why is really more important then the how. If you have the why, the how finds itself. But you don't know why, little man, do you? You sit there and victimize yourself, you little man. I feel sorry for you, and I feel that I can help you...but I can't. I have learned that the only person that can be helped is one that wants help. Also a stronger character is needed in order to know that popping pills is like drinking alcohol to drown your sorrow. You must therefore be of strong enough will to take a step toward the truth and find out for yourself that drugs simply mask your problem. You do have a problem...yes, it is deeply rooted. But not since birth, you can not deny your faulty logic when you talk about your chemical imbalance at age 15 or so and then say that drugs helped you. You were not imbalanced before then, why should you need drugs.
> >
> > Go on taking synthetics, which polute your body and make you more ill then before. The industry of drugs wants you to. But why should I tell you something you already know...you know they want you to be ill because without illness there would not exist an FDA nor the Pharmaceutical industry, and no need would arise to create one. But I won't tell you this. It is something you don't wish to hear. You are ill and want an easy solution, but you are not willing to work on yourself, really work. You want the problem solved in a moments notice. You are a consumer. Go on consuming your own shit little man. Your own troubles will be spouted right from your depth of sorrow. These consumed 'goods' will become your end, and are your sick beginning.
> >
> > "You're sick, little man, very sick. It's not your fault; but it's your responsibility to get well." - Wilhelm Reich
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by jtc on April 3, 2003, at 23:49:41
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated, posted by DeeDee46 on April 3, 2003, at 15:47:58
> Again, I will repeat myself. If I could of taken a natural herb or did anything besides take an antidpressant.. I would of done so.. period. I tried it, it didnt work.Everything in life can be abused from food even on to herbs. Do we need to be aware of all of this? YES.! I have watched family members who have been deathly sick with an illness take a medication that is controversial and HAS SIDE effects be able to go on with life and HAVE QUALITY!!!! It is my prayer that you do not have to go through this someday. I promise you if you do,,, you will live to regret some of things you are saying.
> I am not one to argue. Again, this is for support. You have a lot of postive energy to give to someone. I know of tons of homeless shelters that could use it or homes for runaway teens. Anything. I could go on and on. You have stated your point. Again this is for support. End of discussion with you.Right on Dee Dee. Good going...
Posted by jtc on April 3, 2003, at 23:52:40
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated, posted by lovemybabies on April 3, 2003, at 16:53:45
> Holy crap. What reason would you have for calling those who have success w/Effexor "little man?" You post is sarcastic, derogatory and just plain mean.
love my babies, I could not have said it better myself. Thank you, jtc
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 4, 2003, at 0:17:21
In reply to Re: Effexor Withdrawal Highly Overrated, posted by jtc on April 3, 2003, at 23:39:30
> you are the "sick litte man".
Please be sensitive to the feelings of others and don't post anything that could lead them to feel accused or put down, thanks.
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 4, 2003, at 0:18:20
In reply to Re: sorry, posted by KRM123 on April 3, 2003, at 22:27:55
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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