![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 43. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by micky301 on December 16, 2002, at 0:24:07
Hello,
Are there any problems or dangerous interactions if you use an Maoi along with Fish Oil capsules or Flax seed oil. thanks
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 16, 2002, at 7:44:22
In reply to MAOI's and Fish Oil, posted by micky301 on December 16, 2002, at 0:24:07
> Hello,
>
> Are there any problems or dangerous interactions if you use an Maoi along with Fish Oil capsules or Flax seed oil. thanksI've never heard of any possible interactions. Just be aware that some people don't tolerate fish oil well.
Posted by Optimistic on December 16, 2002, at 12:08:06
In reply to Re: MAOI's and Fish Oil, posted by Larry Hoover on December 16, 2002, at 7:44:22
How are they intolerant to it? Just GI problems or have you heard of it making the core problem worse (depression etc.)?
Posted by BeardedLady on December 16, 2002, at 13:39:22
In reply to Re: MAOI's and Fish Oil, posted by Optimistic on December 16, 2002, at 12:08:06
It makes you burp a little if your tummy's empty. It's a natural food product. Milk causes way more trouble than fish oil.
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 16, 2002, at 16:50:09
In reply to Re: MAOI's and Fish Oil, posted by Optimistic on December 16, 2002, at 12:08:06
> How are they intolerant to it? Just GI problems or have you heard of it making the core problem worse (depression etc.)?
There were a couple of people reporting insomnia and agitation. I don't remember who, though.
Posted by johnj on December 17, 2002, at 10:14:16
In reply to Re: MAOI's and Fish Oil, posted by Larry Hoover on December 16, 2002, at 16:50:09
I was one of the people that experienced sleep disturbance. the first few days it made me calm and helped my sleep. I feel asleep in front of the tv and I hadn't done that in years. But, after a few days it made me spacey and my sleep started to get disturbed as in waking up often.
Posted by bluedog on December 17, 2002, at 10:30:16
In reply to Re: MAOI's and Fish Oil, posted by Larry Hoover on December 16, 2002, at 16:50:09
>
> There were a couple of people reporting insomnia and agitation. I don't remember who, though.Larry
I was one of those that reported problems when I first commenced taking fish oil. I posted the following on 26 November 2002.
=================================================================================================="Re: Fish oil really screwed up my sleep
Posted by bluedog on November 26, 2002, at 21:29:39In reply to Re: Fish oil really screwed up my sleep, posted by Larry Hoover on November 20, 2002, at 19:03:12
OK. I've been taking fish oil supplements for just over a week now and there is absolutely no doubt that my dreaming has become extremely violent and vivid and my sleep has become disturbed.
I started out taking one 1000mg tablet per day (contains omega-3 marine triglycerides 300mg, EPA 180mg and DHA 120mg). Yesterday I upped my dose to 2 tablets per day so I am not taking a huge amount of fish oil by any standards.
Can anyone tell me how long I can expect this disturbed sleep pattern to last before it settles down? I don't want to stop taking the fish oil because I have definitely been convinced of the benefits of fish oil through this message board. What's more I perceive the disturbed sleep and dreaming as the fish oil somehow having a therapeutic or healing effect on my system and my brain is adapting to suddenly being given the food it desires to function properly. I simply want to know how long it will be for these effects to pass."
==================================================================================================
I am VERY happy to report that I persisted with the supplements and for me the symptoms I reported have now passed. I have already built up my dose to 5000mg of fish oil per day (giving me 900mg of EPA daily) and I can say that my mood has definitely stabilised somewhat and I am not experiencing problems with my sleep anymore. What's more I am having a LOT less trouble actually getting out of bed in the mornings. I built up my doseages very slowly and at this stage I also no longer experience the fishy burps or loose stools that I had some trouble with initially.All I can say is that I am glad that I persisted in getting through the initial side effects period and I guess my body has now adjusted and I appear to be benefitting from a much healthier Omega-3 to Omega-6 ratio than previously. My advice is that if you do get side effects like insomnia, vivid dreams and agitation is to persist with the supplements for at leat 3-4 weeks and maybe even longer before giving up. I now believe more than ever that the side effects I experienced were actually "symptoms" of my body and brain going through a healing process!!!!
regards
bluedog
Posted by ShelliR on December 17, 2002, at 11:49:05
In reply to Fish oil - insomnia, vivid dreams and agitation!! » Larry Hoover, posted by bluedog on December 17, 2002, at 10:30:16
Bluedog,
Thanks for checking back in about fish oil and anxiety, and letting us know that you stuck with it and have had positive effects. I definitely think that it was been causing me anxiety and I need to start much much slower.
You say you are benefitting from a much healthier Omega-3 to Omega-6 ratio than previously.What about the ratio between EPA & DHA?
I'm taking omegabrite; the ratio is 7 to 1 EPA,
Your ratio is much more even between EPA & DHA, right?The smallest I can start with this stuff is total fatty acid 1500mg, EPA 375 (one pill). Also, I have been too anxious to eat very much, so I hadn't been taking it on a full stomach. AND, I just started lexapro, which, from what I am reading on the board, also causes anxiety.
This has been so much information on fish oil on this board for the last couple of months, but it is all scattered. When I told my doctor about my anxiety yesterday, he had no idea whether it could be caused by the omega; it is pretty obvious from you and others on this board that it definitely could be the culprit. This pdoc is pretty good; it's amazing how many more people we are exposed to on each drug/treatment than most pdocs because of the large volume of people who write in here creates a bigger sample than he personally sees. And he's good about reading the literature, but there's not a lot of emphasis on side effects there; sometimes just a one sentence summary.
I even called the omegabrite people and they couldn't give me any side effect information, which I think is pretty pathetic.
Anyway, thanks for the original post and your update.
Shelli
Posted by bluedog on December 17, 2002, at 12:45:14
In reply to Re: Fish oil - insomnia, vivid dreams and agitation!! » bluedog, posted by ShelliR on December 17, 2002, at 11:49:05
> Thanks for checking back in about fish oil and anxiety, and letting us know that you stuck with it and have had positive effects. I definitely think that it was been causing me anxiety and I need to start much much slower.
I started out on one 1000mg capsule for a week with my largest and fattiest meal of the day, then I went to two capsules per day and stayed at that amount until all the side effects disappeared. The worst side effects were during the initial 2-3 weeks. I always take the capsules with food (preferably fatty food but I can now even tolerate the capsules with a low fat meal with no side effects except for a very occasional fishy burp) when I finally went to 3 then 4 and now 5 capsules per day I experienced absolutely no side effects with these gradual increases in my dose (I take one capsule at breakfast, two capsules with lunch and two capsules with dinner)
==================================================================================================
> You say you are benefitting from a much healthier Omega-3 to Omega-6 ratio than previously.Yes I believe this is benefitting me. Not only am I taking the fish oil supplements but I now also minimise my consumption of vegetable oils and I completely avoid products with Trans-fatty assets or partially hydrogenated oils (I eat butter instead of margarine and use olive oil instead of sunflower/safflower or canola oil for cooking) Though I don't completely deny myself (you still need to live a little) and I occassinally will eat fish and chips or potato chips (crisps). I simply try to take a more balanced approach to the different types of fats that I do consume.
==================================================================================================
> What about the ratio between EPA & DHA?
>
> I'm taking omegabrite; the ratio is 7 to 1 EPA,
> Your ratio is much more even between EPA & DHA, right?The ratio in my capsules is 3 EPA to 2 DHA. I don't know what the importance of this ratio is. I think Larry Hoover would have a better understanding of this aspect though I believe that EPA is more important once you are an adult and your brain is no longer developing like with babies and children.
==================================================================================================
> The smallest I can start with this stuff is total fatty acid 1500mg, EPA 375 (one pill).I'm pretty sure you could get a less potent brand initially and then move on to the Omegabrite brand once your body has adapted to taking the fish oil supplements!!!!
==================================================================================================
>Also, I have been too anxious to eat very much, so I hadn't been taking it on a full stomach.I would definitely recommend taking it with food. If your too anxious (or depressed) to eat large meals try "grazing" throughout the day with more smaller yet healthy meals. Try taking your fish oil supplements with something fatty like a decent handful of raw cashew nuts and a slice of cheese with some natural yoghurt. I can't guarantee it will work but you can only try
==================================================================================================>AND, I just started lexapro, which, from what I am reading on the board, also causes anxiety.
>I think at this point it would be very difficult to distinguish whether your anxiety is caused by the Lexapro the fish oil or whether you simply have a diagnosis of anxiety. Has your doctor discussed the possibility of taking a short course of a long acting Benzo like Klonopin or Valium say for a month or two to help you through the initial anxiety phase that many ssri's can cause. I know I experienced a definite "10 strong black coffee effect" when I first went onto Prozac but this passed after about a fortnight and the Prozac now actually helps my anxiety.
==================================================================================================> This has been so much information on fish oil on this board for the last couple of months, but it is all scattered. When I told my doctor about my anxiety yesterday, he had no idea whether it could be caused by the omega; it is pretty obvious from you and others on this board that it definitely could be the culprit. This pdoc is pretty good; it's amazing how many more people we are exposed to on each drug/treatment than most pdocs because of the large volume of people who write in here creates a bigger sample than he personally sees. And he's good about reading the literature, but there's not a lot of emphasis on side effects there; sometimes just a one sentence summary.
>
> I even called the omegabrite people and they couldn't give me any side effect information, which I think is pretty pathetic.
>Because supplement manufacturers (at least here in Australia) are not subject to the same stringent regulations that the pharmaceutical companies need to comply with it's extremely doubtful that omegabrite would admit to any negative effects from there product
==================================================================================================> Anyway, thanks for the original post and your update.
Not a problem at all. I've learnt a lot from this board and believe in sharing any knowledge I have gained from this board and from my personal experiences
warm regards
bluedog
Posted by ShelliR on December 17, 2002, at 13:00:04
In reply to Re: Fish oil - insomnia, vivid dreams and agitation!! » ShelliR, posted by bluedog on December 17, 2002, at 12:45:14
Bluefish,
And the winner is..............You definitely win the award for writing the most readable posts--best graphic presentation of answers to fish oil questions!
Best Wishes,
Shellip.s., good information, also. And I *am* taking valium to get me through.
Posted by BeardedLady on December 17, 2002, at 13:01:35
In reply to Re: Fish oil - insomnia, vivid dreams and agitation!! » ShelliR, posted by bluedog on December 17, 2002, at 12:45:14
Just about anything can give you a side effect if you are sensitive to it (like most people are with dairy products) or take too much of it.
I wonder, though, how many people would be agitated or anxious taking the recommended dosage.
In the studies that showed effective relief from depression and insomnia when combined with anti-depressants, the dose was a gram a day.
Maybe folks are trying to use the fish-oil supplement as a drug instead of a nutritional additive, and that's where it gets them into trouble?
(I don't know, so I'm really asking.)
Posted by bluedog on December 17, 2002, at 13:46:01
In reply to Re: Fish oil - insomnia, vivid dreams and agitation!! » bluedog, posted by ShelliR on December 17, 2002, at 13:00:04
> Bluefish
> And the winner is..............> You definitely win the award for writing the most readable posts--best graphic presentation of answers to fish oil questions!
>
Why thank you ShelliMaybe I should have made my posting name Bluefish rather than Bluedog seeing as I actually am a fish (Pisces)
I wish you all the best
Bluefishydoggy
Posted by ShelliR on December 17, 2002, at 20:53:02
In reply to maybe it's the dosage?, posted by BeardedLady on December 17, 2002, at 13:01:35
> I wonder, though, how many people would be agitated or anxious taking the recommended dosage.
>
> In the studies that showed effective relief from depression and insomnia when combined with anti-depressants, the dose was a gram a day.
>
> Maybe folks are trying to use the fish-oil supplement as a drug instead of a nutritional additive, and that's where it gets them into trouble?
>Well, you're probably right in that the more you take, the more side effects you have the potential to experience. And I am taking it, hoping for anti-depressant effects. But I'm just taking the recommended dose that the manufacturer has on the label; they even add that "some people may achieve additional benefits with a higher level of supplementation".
It's really amazing how different our bodies react to things. About two years ago I was given provigal to try for its anti-depressant effects. The drug was manufactured, tested, and is now distributed for control of narcolepsy. From day one after I started it, I spent the next two weeks doing nothing but sleep--all day and all night long.
Shelli
Posted by bluedog on December 17, 2002, at 22:58:47
In reply to Re: maybe it's the dosage? » BeardedLady, posted by ShelliR on December 17, 2002, at 20:53:02
Hi again Shelli... I'm hoping that Larry Hoover will be able to provide some further input into my following post but until then here is my response:-
==================================================================================================> > In the studies that showed effective relief from depression and insomnia when combined with anti-depressants, the dose was a gram a day.
The studies actually showed relief from depression on one gram of EPA per day. With my supplements that means I actually need to take 5 grams of fish oil supplements per day to get my one gram of EPA
==================================================================================================> > Maybe folks are trying to use the fish-oil supplement as a drug instead of a nutritional additive, and that's where it gets them into trouble?
Food and drugs are VERY closely related to eachother especially when you are talking about natural "drugs". In fact food does not behave any differently in our system as drugs. After all food contains molecules and drugs also contain molecules and the human body does not really know the difference and simply deals with molecules as and when they enter the system.
Now my opinion is that maybe people are using fish oils as a drug but I have very grave doubts about this view. I believe that taking 5 grams of fish oil supplements per day is actually a PURE food use of this substance. The reason I say this is because of the terribly unhealthy ratio of Omega-6 to Omega-3 EFA's that almost every person in western society has developed. This unhealthy ratio has only developed since the advent of the food processing industry and the discovery of hydrogenisation to extend the shelf life of otherwise healthy fats and oils (increasing profits for the food companies). The amounts of omega-3 that was naturally found in many foods in the past (like beef and eggs) is practically non-existent nowadays and our consumption of omega-6 EFA's is at a level that is unprecedented in the entire history of human civilisation. Plus the food proceesing industry has brainwashed an entire generation of consumers into believing that the enemies of a healthy diet were saturated fats and cholestorol and have actively suppressed all research and studies that have shown that it is the products that they were selling us that were the real culprit in the general decline in health and increased rates of obesity and depression in recent generations. I would highly recommend that you read studies by Mary Enig (unsure if I've spelt the name correctly) to learn the truth about fats and oils including th omega-3 and omega-6 EFA's
By reducing consumption of omega-6, vegetable oils, trans-fatty acids and partially hydrogenated fats and oils and by SUBSTANTIALLY increasing Omega-3 consumption either throuh eating fish or by supplementation we are merely altering our diet and balancing the ratio of omega-3 to omega-6 EFA's closer to the state that nature intended for us (and was eaten by our ancestors).
By the way 5 grams of fish oil supplements is nothing compared to the Eskimos who consumed 14-18 grams of fish oil per day in their traditional diets and the incidence of heart disease, arthhritis and other joint diseases and depression is extremely low in traditional eskimo populations.
==================================================================================================> Well, you're probably right in that the more you take, the more side effects you have the potential to experience. And I am taking it, hoping for anti-depressant effects. But I'm just taking the recommended dose that the manufacturer has on the label; they even add that "some people may achieve additional benefits with a higher level of supplementation".
I honestly believe that you will not create problems with your current useage of the fish oil supplements. However if after you've given the supplements a decent trial ONLY then should you conclude whether they are right for you or not. I can't emphasize enough to build up your dose very slowly. There is a scientific reason for this and it take a long time for your body to re-balance itself. Larry Hoover expalined the dynamics behind this in one of his previous posts but I can't seem to find it at the moment
==================================================================================================Anyway that's me done again
warms regards
bluedog
Posted by BeardedLady on December 18, 2002, at 7:01:16
In reply to Fish oil is not a drug? - LARRY HOOVER » ShelliR, posted by bluedog on December 17, 2002, at 22:58:47
I think your message was for me (and Larry), since I was the one whose post you responded to.
Yes, one gram of EPA. That's right. (My fish oil has EPA and something else--too lazy to look--that equals a gram of EPA when you take two.) Sorry I wasn't clear. It's confusing to me anyhow.
The Zone books all treat food like a drug, which really turns me off, as I like food and would rather enjoy it than it it as if I were simply filling my tank or tanking my meds.
My only comment is that Eskimos are accustomed to eating that much fish and actually need the fat to help them through the winter months (I wonder if they have a lower incidence of depression--whether the fish oil makes up for the darkness-induced SAD that so many of us experience where it isn't nearly as dark!).
But, thrust into that lifestyle, we wouldn't fare so well. We don't have the evolution of our ancestors on our side.
I do believe that immersing yourself in the ways of another culture isn't necessarily a good thing for your own body, in that your body and those of your family members and associates are simply unaccustomed to those changes. Not that you wouldn't, in time, adapt.
It's morning, and I'm not yet awake. I'm sure this post was incoherent.
That said, I have been taking my fish oil twice a day for the last few days, and I sleep so hard and so long that I have trouble waking after 9.5 hours! (I have not had the need for an Ativan, and I have reduced my Serzone dose again!)
beardy
Posted by BeardedLady on December 18, 2002, at 7:06:56
In reply to Re: maybe it's the dosage? » BeardedLady, posted by ShelliR on December 17, 2002, at 20:53:02
Our bodies are different and weird. And so are our minds.
My pdoc recommended Gabitril for sleep and anxiety, and I was so anxious twenty minutes after I took it that I didn't sleep all night.
I took it a few more nights and gave up, as I felt icky the whole time.
BUT I still wonder whether it was the Gabitril or my brain. I was clearly nervous about starting a new drug, and if my own body MADE me have that side effect, I would've had it every day just from sheer expectation.
It's hard to give up those expectations.
Shelley--I had a new Serzone prescription filled. The first night I took it, I couldn't fall asleep for three hours (until I took an Ativan). Why? Because it was a new prescription, and I was thinking about whether it had expired or the drugs were bad or whatever--it happens whenever I start a new size of pill! How stupid.
Well, good luck with your fish oil tinkering. I hope it works for you. I think it does for me. Hard to tell if it's fish oil or better life conditions.
Just like it's hard to tell if the team won because you're wearing your lucky underwear!
beardy
Posted by bluedog on December 18, 2002, at 10:17:50
In reply to Re: Fish oil is not a drug? - LARRY HOOVER » bluedog, posted by BeardedLady on December 18, 2002, at 7:01:16
> I think your message was for me (and Larry), since I was the one whose post you responded to.
Hi Beardy, I haven't seen many posts from you lately. I'm Glad to see you are still around and I hope you are starting to feel a little bit better since you lost your "little furry boy".
Yes you are right that this post was also directed at you. You'll have to forgive me because I'm also not thinking straight at the moment and my posts are also not particularly coherent. I generally need to check my posts at least ten times to check for spelling and grammar mistakes to get things at least half right and am not coping well at the current time. I returned to work on Monday after 4 months of sick leave and since returning to work I have suddenly become severely depressed again. I hope this is only a temporary thing and that my mood will soon stabilise again.
==================================================================================================
> Yes, one gram of EPA. That's right. (My fish oil has EPA and something else--too lazy to look--that equals a gram of EPA when you take two.) Sorry I wasn't clear. It's confusing to me anyhow.I wasn't correcting you on that point but was relaying my personal doseages for Shelli. I hope you didn't feel I was being pedantic or anything like that because that was not my intention.
==================================================================================================
> The Zone books all treat food like a drug, which really turns me off, as I like food and would rather enjoy it than it it as if I were simply filling my tank or tanking my meds.I HATE all books like the Zone diet books and the Atkins diet books etc. I think you can extract SOME useful information from these books but if you follow them religiously your life becomes a living hell filled with guilt and anxiety about what you eat. I mean in the Zone diet if you even so much as look at a banana you will be condemned to metabolic damnation and the fires of hell will consume your entire being.
I also believe food ought to be enjoyed and should be a pleasurable experience. What I was trying to say in my post was that from a purely bio-chemical perspective the body simply sees a molecule as a molecule and therefore to REDUCE the stress and anxiety that you can put yourself through you shouldn't make too big a deal between "real" food and dietary supplements. What I was trying to say is that fish oil supplements can actually be classed as "real" food and that it can form part of a healthy balanced diet where you can have a bit of everything in moderation (including Coke, chocalate, potato chips(crisps), french fries beer and pizza)
==================================================================================================
> My only comment is that Eskimos are accustomed to eating that much fish and actually need the fat to help them through the winter months (I wonder if they have a lower incidence of depression--whether the fish oil makes up for the darkness-induced SAD that so many of us experience where it isn't nearly as dark!).I did make the point that I only consume 5 grams of fish oil compared to the eskimos 18 grams of fish oil daily. I agree that their environment necessitates such a high consumption but I am in no way saying that us westerners should consume that much omega-3 EFA's. I am proposing that we bring the amount of omega -3 consumption up to healthier levels that probably existed in earlier generations in the regions that most of us live in.
==================================================================================================> But, thrust into that lifestyle, we wouldn't fare so well. We don't have the evolution of our ancestors on our side.
When I talked about our ancestors I was not talking about our ancient ancestors but was actually talking about our grandparents from only a few generations ago who had a much healthier omega-3 to omega-6 ratio than the current crop of "baby-boomers" and their children. {I suppose that means US :) :) }
I was trying to emphasize that since the advent of the food processing industry (probably only since the last fifty years) that our consumption of omega-6 has risen exponentially and our consumption of omega-3 has dropped substantially. This has lead to problems in our societies health overall state of health (cardiovascular health, joint and tissue health and mental health) given our CURRENT evolutionary makeup and that this balance can be redressed by minimising the types of fats we currently eat too much of (mainly processed and hydrogenated vegetable oils) and by taking more omega-3 in the form of supplements because there are so few good natural sources of omega-3 left. In my grandfathers youth even the beef had quite good levels of omega-3 and margarine was not even invented yet.I again emphasise that you take some time to study the research and writings of Mary Enig Phd who is an absolute guru on this topic and has been a lone voice against the power of the food processing industry for over 20 years
==================================================================================================> I do believe that immersing yourself in the ways of another culture isn't necessarily a good thing for your own body, in that your body and those of your family members and associates are simply unaccustomed to those changes. Not that you wouldn't, in time, adapt.
I believe we can learn alot from other cultures and have the option nowadays to pick and choose the good parts from the diets of other cultures and incorporate it into our own diets. I strongly believe that we are heading more and more towards an inter-mingling of dietary cultures and are heading towards what I would term a "world cuisine"
==================================================================================================
> It's morning, and I'm not yet awake. I'm sure this post was incoherent.I know exactly what that is like :) but your post did however make lots of sense to me.
keep well Beardy
warm regards
bluedog
Posted by BeardedLady on December 18, 2002, at 12:44:39
In reply to Re: Fish oil is not a drug? - LARRY HOOVER » BeardedLady, posted by bluedog on December 18, 2002, at 10:17:50
> Hi Beardy, I haven't seen many posts from you lately. I'm Glad to see you are still around and I hope you are starting to feel a little bit better since you lost your "little furry boy".
Yes, a little bit better, thanks!
> Yes you are right that this post was also directed at you. You'll have to forgive me because I'm also not thinking straight at the moment and my posts are also not particularly coherent. I generally need to check my posts at least ten times to check for spelling and grammar mistakes to get things at least half right and am not coping well at the current time. I returned to work on Monday after 4 months of sick leave and since returning to work I have suddenly become severely depressed again. I hope this is only a temporary thing and that my mood will soon stabilise again.
I just got back from my therapist's office. He was happy to see my funk had ended and thought I was particularly up today. He asked me before I left what I've learned about these episodes, and I told him that I learned they come but they also go, and they just have to play themselves out. And if I get another, I need to just go with the flow, pamper myself, excuse myself a little, and get done what needs doing.
I think we all have to start thinking of every state as temporary. That means reveling in our joyous times and waiting out the dark times. I hope yours goes by quickly.
> I wasn't correcting you on that point but was relaying my personal doseages for Shelli. I hope you didn't feel I was being pedantic or anything like that because that was not my intention.
No way. Nothing like that. I was just wondering if people were taking too much too soon. I'm afraid of anything that comes in pill form (in the olden days, I took drugs I didn't recognize--without fear; these days, I worry about my immortality), so I take the smallest dose for a few days and work up to a bigger one.
I was just commenting that you were right; I forgot about the EPA distinction because I'd read it so long ago.
> I HATE all books like the Zone diet books and the Atkins diet books etc. I think you can extract SOME useful information from these books but if you follow them religiously your life becomes a living hell filled with guilt and anxiety about what you eat. I mean in the Zone diet if you even so much as look at a banana you will be condemned to metabolic damnation and the fires of hell will consume your entire being.
Yes, Zone has that tendency. He's a food nazi, that guy. I'm still thinking about Adkins. I think there's a happy medium, but I want to read his book. I never got around to it the first go round.
> I did make the point that I only consume 5 grams of fish oil compared to the eskimos 18 grams of fish oil daily. I agree that their environment necessitates such a high consumption but I am in no way saying that us westerners should consume that much omega-3 EFA's. I am proposing that we bring the amount of omega -3 consumption up to healthier levels that probably existed in earlier generations in the regions that most of us live in.
Yes, you're probably right.
> When I talked about our ancestors I was not talking about our ancient ancestors but was actually talking about our grandparents from only a few generations ago who had a much healthier omega-3 to omega-6 ratio than the current crop of "baby-boomers" and their children. {I suppose that means US :) :) }Me too. But I hadn't seen your ancestors comment, so I wasn't responding to it. We are like two trains on parallel tracks!
> I was trying to emphasize that since the advent of the food processing industry (probably only since the last fifty years) that our consumption of omega-6 has risen exponentially and our consumption of omega-3 has dropped substantially. This has lead to problems in our societies health overall state of health (cardiovascular health, joint and tissue health and mental health) given our CURRENT evolutionary makeup and that this balance can be redressed by minimising the types of fats we currently eat too much of (mainly processed and hydrogenated vegetable oils) and by taking more omega-3 in the form of supplements because there are so few good natural sources of omega-3 left. In my grandfathers youth even the beef had quite good levels of omega-3 and margarine was not even invented yet.
Yes, yes, yes. And note that since the FDA has begun allowing preservatives, it takes (I don't know the statistic her, but it's a big 'un) much longer for our bodies to decompose.
> I again emphasise that you take some time to study the research and writings of Mary Enig Phd who is an absolute guru on this topic and has been a lone voice against the power of the food processing industry for over 20 years
I'll look into her.
> I believe we can learn alot from other cultures and have the option nowadays to pick and choose the good parts from the diets of other cultures and incorporate it into our own diets. I strongly believe that we are heading more and more towards an inter-mingling of dietary cultures and are heading towards what I would term a "world cuisine"
That's how I do religion. Woiks fo' me.
Nice chattin' wif you. Woof woof.
beardy
Posted by bluedog on December 18, 2002, at 13:19:51
In reply to stop making sense » bluedog, posted by BeardedLady on December 18, 2002, at 12:44:39
woof woof - I'm glad to see your feeling a bit more up again. Really nice talking to you again
I'm going to bed now. Since I've returned to work and slipped back into depression my sleep hygiene has basically gone "up the creek (or is it "down the creek") without a paddle. It's 3.00am where I live but I'm wide awake!!! and I have to somehow get up for work in a few hours. I already know my alarm is going to create a crisis in my system in a few hours time.
So I'm now officially signing off for the night (sorry, I meant morning) and ooil talk to you when I return to the land of the waking AND the living (because I'm a zombie and a member of the walking dead during my waking hours at the moment due to this pesky depression that plagues me!) but I'm hoping this is simply an adjustment phase to being back at work and I will experience joy again soon!!!
I never realized just HOW uplifting this message board can be until now and that supportive posts definitely do help when your experiencing trouble in your mind :)
see ya Beardy
warm regards
bluedog
Posted by BeardedLady on December 18, 2002, at 15:01:05
In reply to Re: stop making sense » BeardedLady, posted by bluedog on December 18, 2002, at 13:19:51
Posted by oracle on December 19, 2002, at 0:25:24
In reply to Re: Fish oil is not a drug? - LARRY HOOVER » BeardedLady, posted by bluedog on December 18, 2002, at 10:17:50
Posted by linkadge on December 19, 2002, at 11:08:55
In reply to Fish oil isn't a drug? Everything taken is a drug (nm), posted by oracle on December 19, 2002, at 0:25:24
I am taking 6 g of standard fish oil,
I have noticed a few good things.
It seems to really help with the Celexa
apathy. I didn't notice at first, but then
I was watching star wars on TV, and I
couldn't believe it, I was interested in
it, it wasn't like, oh it's just a movie.I have also noticed that colors are deeper
and ritcher, and the dirty winter snow
doesn't look quite so depressing and ugly.Linkadge
Posted by ShelliR on December 19, 2002, at 14:31:52
In reply to Re: stop making sense » BeardedLady, posted by bluedog on December 18, 2002, at 13:19:51
I just remembered that blue fish is the name of
of brand of casual (but expensive) clothing that I think is manufactured in Taos, New Mexico. (They also carry it at a little store near me--on the east coast)Shelli
Posted by BeardedLady on December 19, 2002, at 15:43:51
In reply to Trivia » bluedog, posted by ShelliR on December 19, 2002, at 14:31:52
Posted by ShelliR on December 19, 2002, at 18:24:24
In reply to Is it kinda like Fresh Produce clothing? (nm) » ShelliR, posted by BeardedLady on December 19, 2002, at 15:43:51
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