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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by LLL on July 30, 2002, at 17:57:03
In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by jsarirose on July 30, 2002, at 14:38:46
As always, thanks Jess. Hoping Bobbydobbs will respond since he's a veteran MAOI user!
Lisa
Posted by Bobbiedobbs on July 30, 2002, at 22:33:27
In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by LLL on July 30, 2002, at 9:02:10
Re: Krafts processed Parmesan. I can't give you a technical answer. I am probably more liberal with diet restrictions than most, yet I've avoided it. I will eat a highly processed food WITH parmesan in it if it is very low in a long list of ingredients. I've never experienced any blood pressure elevation (or visceral reaction) in any way from that. But "parmesan", even in processed form, is not considered "processed American cheese" as defined in the diets that allow it.
Posted by jsarirose on July 30, 2002, at 22:51:57
In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by Bobbiedobbs on July 30, 2002, at 22:33:27
What do you think about a natural mac & cheese. I guess it wouldn't technically be processed like Kraft would. Has anyone actually eaten Kraft Mac & Cheese? Is it really okay?
-Jessica
Posted by LLL on July 30, 2002, at 23:07:27
In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by Bobbiedobbs on July 30, 2002, at 22:33:27
I posted my question on two different threads and the response below was very helpful! I recommend going to the link to read the attached data, it was quite informative and thorough.
Re: parmesan cheese tyramine content » LLL
Posted by christophrejmc on July 30, 2002, at 22:26:20In reply to Calling all experienced MAOI dieters, posted by LLL on July 29, 2002, at 16:33:03
According to http://www.vh.org/Providers/Conferences/CPS/19.html Kraft brand parmesan cheese contains about 0.2mg of tyramine per serving--not enough to cause any problems.
Posted by jsarirose on July 30, 2002, at 23:16:01
In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list » Bobbiedobbs, posted by LLL on July 30, 2002, at 23:07:27
Can we really eat all those cheeses? I've been eating mozzarella all along because it's a 'fresh' cheese as opposed to aged, but according to that list there are several others that are safe: Gruyere, Muenster, Feta, Brie... I'd love to eat some of these, but I'm still nervous. Anyone experimented?
-Jessica
Posted by cybercafe on July 31, 2002, at 3:49:32
In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by jsarirose on July 30, 2002, at 23:16:01
> Can we really eat all those cheeses? I've been eating mozzarella all along because it's a 'fresh' cheese as opposed to aged, but according to that list there are several others that are safe: Gruyere, Muenster, Feta, Brie... I'd love to eat some of these, but I'm still nervous. Anyone experimented?
i eat whatever they sell in the store at subway or mcdonald's or major pizza joints...
i can't say that it will be safe for you too of course... :(
but wow... i had no idea marmite was so incredably bad
Posted by LLL on July 31, 2002, at 8:36:45
In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by jsarirose on July 30, 2002, at 23:16:01
Jessica, the problem with the cheeses you mention is that they vary so much from one manufacturer to the next and it's impossible to determine the process they went through. I would use caution with those cheeses.
Posted by cybercafe on July 31, 2002, at 21:11:38
In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list » jsarirose, posted by LLL on July 31, 2002, at 8:36:45
> Jessica, the problem with the cheeses you mention is that they vary so much from one manufacturer to the next and it's impossible to determine the process they went through. I would use caution with those cheeses.
you know what's strange?
http://www.vh.org/Providers/Conferences/CPS/19.html
says Parmesan and Feta have half the tyramine content of mozzerella
Posted by cybercafe on July 31, 2002, at 22:22:04
In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by jsarirose on July 30, 2002, at 23:16:01
maybe chlorpromazine is better than nifedepine:Weekly Web Review in Emergency Medicine
Article Review: January 31, 1997
SHOULD A MORATORIUM BE PLACED ON SUBLINGUAL NIFEDIPINE CAPSULES GIVEN FOR HYPERTENSIVE EMERGENCIES AND PSEUDOEMERGENCIES?
Grossman E, Messerli FH, Grodzicki T, et al. JAMA, October 23/30, 1996; 276:1328BACKGROUND: Nifedipine is a peripheral vasodilator that produces hypotension, along with reflex tachycardia and myocardial contractility. Although sublingual short-acting nifedipine is often given in the emergency department to rapidly lower elevated blood pressure, such use has not been approved by the Food and Drug Administration. The safety of this practice has never been demonstrated; in fact, adverse effects associated with nifedipine-induced precipitous blood pressure reduction include cerebral ischemia and infarction, acute myocardial infarction, complete heart block, and death. In actual hypertensive emergencies (severe hypertension with secondary encephalopathy, stroke, myocardial infarction, dissecting aortic aneurysm, or acute renal failure), more reliable and controllable agents such as intravenous nitroprusside are indicated. In other settings, physician attempts to lower blood pressure acutely are often merely "blood pressure cosmetics," with significant risks but little potential benefit. The authors conclude that the routine use of short-acting nifedipine capsules in hypertensive emergencies and pseudoemergencies should be abandoned.
Posted by jsarirose on July 31, 2002, at 23:55:52
In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by cybercafe on July 31, 2002, at 21:11:38
> you know what's strange?
> http://www.vh.org/Providers/Conferences/CPS/19.html
> says Parmesan and Feta have half the tyramine content of mozzerella
>
>Well I know I've never had a problem with Parmesan although I've never really over done it. But it hasn't seemed to matter how much I've had. I haven't tried feta, but maybe I'll get brave and try it. I really miss greek salads!
Today I had a veggie sandwich with Goat cheese. I thought it was something like chevre, but it was actually goat brie. I had a big bite before I realized that it was brie. I was a little nervous, but no reaction whatsoever. I didn't eat the rest though.
Compared to cheddar, which I had a few bites of once, I started feeling the effect pretty soon.
-Jessica
Posted by LLL on August 1, 2002, at 0:17:25
In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by jsarirose on July 31, 2002, at 23:55:52
Well, good luck. Don't get to risky - take care.
Lisa
Posted by jsarirose on August 1, 2002, at 0:34:34
In reply to hey jess - i think you were right re: nifedepine, posted by cybercafe on July 31, 2002, at 22:22:04
Interesting article.
All I know is my personal experience and what I read online. I've never had a problem taking the Chlorpromazine, high blood pressure or not. And I've heard various negative reports about most of the alternatives. Aside from feeling a bit groggy for a day or two, it's always worked great for me. Worth a try, eh?
-Jessica
Posted by cybercafe on August 1, 2002, at 2:10:46
In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by jsarirose on July 31, 2002, at 23:55:52
>it. But it hasn't seemed to matter how much I've had. I haven't tried feta, but maybe I'll get brave and try it. I really miss greek salads!
okay jess -- just for you, i risked my life and tried some feta today... no problem here at 30 mg
Posted by cybercafe on August 1, 2002, at 2:12:13
In reply to Re: hey jess - i think you were right re: nifedepine, posted by jsarirose on August 1, 2002, at 0:34:34
> All I know is my personal experience and what I read online. I've never had a problem taking the Chlorpromazine, high blood pressure or not. And I've heard various negative reports about most of the alternatives. Aside from feeling a bit groggy for a day or two, it's always worked great for me. Worth a try, eh?
... what negative reports have you read about the rest? ...
... the main thing i learned here is that the nifedepine doesn't relieve the migraine -- and that seems like a downside :(
Posted by jsarirose on August 1, 2002, at 2:55:49
In reply to Re: hey jess - i think you were right re: nifedepine, posted by cybercafe on August 1, 2002, at 2:12:13
> > All I know is my personal experience and what I read online. I've never had a problem taking the Chlorpromazine, high blood pressure or not. And I've heard various negative reports about most of the alternatives. Aside from feeling a bit groggy for a day or two, it's always worked great for me. Worth a try, eh?
>
> ... what negative reports have you read about the rest? ...
>
> ... the main thing i learned here is that the nifedepine doesn't relieve the migraine -- and that seems like a downside :(Maybe I shouldn't have said that - it's mostly just word of mouth. It seems like some people have said what you just did, that it doesn't relieve headaches. And others were on emergency meds that still required a trip to the er. I haven't really heard anything positive about what other people use.
-Jessica
Posted by jsarirose on August 1, 2002, at 2:58:03
In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by cybercafe on August 1, 2002, at 2:10:46
> >it. But it hasn't seemed to matter how much I've had. I haven't tried feta, but maybe I'll get brave and try it. I really miss greek salads!
>
> okay jess -- just for you, i risked my life and tried some feta today... no problem here at 30 mgOoh, thank you. Can't wait to buy or make a nice big greek salad tomorrow! Now how about trying some brie, muenster, gruyere, ... I miss my baked brie with garlic, my gruyere with crackers, and my grilled muenster cheese sandwich. ; )
Thanks,
Jessica
Posted by cybercafe on August 1, 2002, at 7:55:03
In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by jsarirose on August 1, 2002, at 2:58:03
> Ooh, thank you. Can't wait to buy or make a nice big greek salad tomorrow! Now how about trying some brie, muenster, gruyere, ... I miss my baked brie with garlic, my gruyere with crackers, and my grilled muenster cheese sandwich. ; )
hey cheese girl... what kind of effect do you think having cheeses sit (in a restaurant kitchen; in your refrigerator) has on their tyramine level?
the one i tried was in a frozen dinner
Posted by LLL on August 1, 2002, at 9:15:40
In reply to Re: hey jess - i think you were right re: nifedepine, posted by jsarirose on August 1, 2002, at 2:55:49
I used it twice, once while working in the hospital and the other in addition to going to the ER. You're correct, it doesn't releive the migraine (although I expect that this isn't typical of a migraine but much worse) and thus the feeling that the nifedepine isn't working.
Although I have a new doc (2nd one in 2 weeks) she also refuses to prescribe this and it may be because of this potential for further harm.
Posted by jsarirose on August 1, 2002, at 11:37:52
In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by cybercafe on August 1, 2002, at 7:55:03
>
> hey cheese girl... what kind of effect do you think having cheeses sit (in a restaurant kitchen; in your refrigerator) has on their tyramine level?
>
> the one i tried was in a frozen dinnerWell, I have to admit when I was lying in bed thinking about cheese (I obviously sleep alone) I started wondering whether a cheaper feta would be aged less than an expensive feta. I guess I hadn't even thought about restaurants. At least in grocery stores you can get a rough date and compare it to others. I'll probably still be very careful in restaurants - I tend to ask for any cheese on the side anyway. I guess I'll have to go to the co-op and make my own salad!
-Jessica
Posted by Bobbiedobbs on August 1, 2002, at 21:49:37
In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by jsarirose on August 1, 2002, at 2:58:03
I'd appreciate it if all of us experimenters predesignate an individual to post any of our death notices on this board so that no one walks the plank behind us. Seriously, it's great having such forbidden fruit's king's tasters. (How's that for mixing metaphors?)
My experience has been limited to parmesan low down the list of ingredients. I must say the Iowa study posted here was an eye-opener. My doctor's still in the "you can't eat chocolate/raspberries" MAOI stone age and is a bastard teetotaler.
Posted by jsarirose on August 1, 2002, at 22:52:53
In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by Bobbiedobbs on August 1, 2002, at 21:49:37
> I'd appreciate it if all of us experimenters predesignate an individual to post any of our death notices on this board so that no one walks the plank behind us. Seriously, it's great having such forbidden fruit's king's tasters. (How's that for mixing metaphors?)
> My experience has been limited to parmesan low down the list of ingredients. I must say the Iowa study posted here was an eye-opener. My doctor's still in the "you can't eat chocolate/raspberries" MAOI stone age and is a bastard teetotaler.Well, aside from eating cheese, I like to drink! Some of my first questions were about various alcohols. Bottled hard cider - okay, bottled hard lemonade - okay, red & white wine - okay, Bourbon - okay, white liquors (gin, rum, vodka) - okay.
The most I've had is probably three manhattan (bourbon), 1/2 bottle of wine, and a couple ciders or lemonades. (Not all in one night.) In my opinion the warnings about alcohol are overrated (except home made with dangers of contamination).
-Jessica
Posted by cybercafe on August 2, 2002, at 2:20:15
In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by Bobbiedobbs on August 1, 2002, at 21:49:37
>Iowa study posted here was an eye-opener. My doctor's still in the "you can't eat chocolate/raspberries" MAOI stone age and is a bastard teetotaler.
what happens if you show up in his office munching on some cheddar?
Posted by Bobbiedobbs on August 2, 2002, at 23:54:30
In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list, posted by cybercafe on August 2, 2002, at 2:20:15
Maybe I'll show up in doc's office with a piece of gruyere in one hand, a pint of Bourbon in the other and some banana peels hanging out of my mouth. He (medicine prescriber) inherited the Maos from original doctor and has made no secret about his disapproval. I see someone else for therapy who has a more enlightened (knowledgeable) viewpoint. Jess, thanks for sharing your alcohol experience/threshholds. When I was taking Nardil I had alot more than that (on a given occasion), and nothing ever "happened". Not that I'd recommend that, but that was my experience. White wine is alot less "potent" than a decongestant!
--Phil
Posted by jsarirose on August 3, 2002, at 0:46:16
In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list » cybercafe, posted by Bobbiedobbs on August 2, 2002, at 23:54:30
experience. White wine is alot less "potent" than a decongestant!
> --PhilSpeaking of decongestants, I had a cold a couple months ago and was absolutely miserable. Since I didn't want to miss much work I went to the pharmacy to see if there was anything I could take. Benedryl. That's it. Out of the millions of pills, liquids, gelcaps, etc. - the only one you can take on an MAOI is Benedryl. And only the pure Benedryl, not the cold one.
My recommendation: Don't get sick!
(Maybe if I drink more I can ward off a future bout...)
-Jessica
Posted by cybercafe on August 3, 2002, at 2:28:19
In reply to Re: MAOI diet short list » cybercafe, posted by jsarirose on August 3, 2002, at 0:46:16
>take. Benedryl. That's it. Out of the millions of pills, liquids, gelcaps, etc. - the only one you can take on an MAOI is Benedryl. And only the pure Benedryl, not the cold one.
hmmmm... i never needed to take any medicine for sickness -- now depression, that is a lot tougher to bear... i mean isn't it wonderful to have something that works for depression? i wouldn't trade that for anything...
...btw i am thinking if you were having problems maybe you could take a benzo and sleep through it (not so much as to develop a dependence obviously)
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