![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 48. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by heiwa on June 17, 2002, at 17:53:48
i was recently put on a combination of paxil (for depression - i've been on paxil for a few years now, they just raised the dose to 20 mg) and seroquel (75 mg) for insomnia. the seroquel has definitely helped with sleep, though i find i need to raise the dose slightly (am now taking 87.5 mg)..does this mean i'm becoming tolerant to it? (i've been on this new combination for about 3 weeks now). also, i notice that my legs and arms involuntarily twitch, especially if i'm resting or laying down. i'm going to go to the psychiatrist tomorrow or wednesday to talk to her about all this. if i do want to get off of seroquel and replace it with something else, what would you recommend? are there withdrawal symptoms, and if so, how can i ease them?
thanks so much for your help.
Posted by missliz on June 18, 2002, at 1:20:36
In reply to seroquel for insomnia, posted by heiwa on June 17, 2002, at 17:53:48
Seroquel is not for insomnia. Seroquel is an anti-psychotic. I was on it for a year when I shouldn't have been and It burned my mind into a big black void. I'm only just becoming my own self again. You need to talk to your MD about why you are on this stuff.
You may need to look at real insomnia medication like Ambien, or go to a mood stabilizer. Sedating ones can be taken at bedtime and fix up the insomnia and augment the anti depressent. If you have any possible minor psychotic stuff going on the right mood stabiliser can sometimes clear it up with half the long term trouble of anti psychotics.
Twitching could be neurological ugly stuff from the Seroquel. Make your doctor explain why you're taking this stuff, and what tardive dyskenisia is. It's her job to tell you the scary permanent side effects of anti psychotics, not some stranger on the internet.
It's your responsibility to be informed and your right as a patient to have your treatment explained to you.
Seroquel should have no significant withdrawal symptoms past the shock of being back in the real world without a drug haze. This could be good or bad.
You could just need more anti depressent. Do you know what your diagnoses is?
Posted by turalizz on June 18, 2002, at 1:51:05
In reply to seroquel for insomnia, posted by heiwa on June 17, 2002, at 17:53:48
> i was recently put on a combination of paxil (for depression - i've been on paxil for a few years now, they just raised the dose to 20 mg) and seroquel (75 mg) for insomnia. the seroquel has definitely helped with sleep, though i find i need to raise the dose slightly (am now taking 87.5 mg)..does this mean i'm becoming tolerant to it? (i've been on this new combination for about 3 weeks now). also, i notice that my legs and arms involuntarily twitch, especially if i'm resting or laying down. i'm going to go to the psychiatrist tomorrow or wednesday to talk to her about all this. if i do want to get off of seroquel and replace it with something else, what would you recommend? are there withdrawal symptoms, and if so, how can i ease them?
> thanks so much for your help.You may want to try 50 - 100 mg trazodone (Desyrel) for sleep. It is an antidepressant, but very sedating, it is used to treat insomnia,
and tolerance to it is not common.cem
Posted by crepuscular on June 18, 2002, at 17:43:46
In reply to Re: seroquel for insomnia, posted by missliz on June 18, 2002, at 1:20:36
on the other hand, seroquel has returned me to reality. i can sleep - it's super-great! also be aware SSRI's can also cause twitching, bruxism, and neck tension.
but don't do an antipsychotic unless you really have to...
Posted by geno on June 20, 2002, at 2:54:26
In reply to Re: seroquel for insomnia, posted by crepuscular on June 18, 2002, at 17:43:46
my pdoc just switched me from remeron 30mg to seroquel 25mg bid to start. I have a clinical pdoc manual that breaks down the neurotransmitters and what receptors they hit. Seroquel has moderal d2 blocade, not nearly as much as haldol, or even zyprexa. It also has histamine blockade, and alpha 1 blockade.
I just too my first seroquel pill 25mg 30min ago. Do feel sedated yet.
Oh, just a point, Antipsycotics may be needed for my problem due to excess dopamine from ghb use. GHB causes a buildup of dopamine, then releases it. This "release" makes me very irritable, insomniac, adjitated.
This tadia dysth. seems to be only at very high doses. I know that when i take ghb, or too much, i begin to twich, loss of facial muscle type, minor drolling. THis is caused by too much dopamine being blocked.
For sleep, i suspect 3 nerutransmitters to be involved. Mainly, histamine blockade. Then dopamine blockade. Then GABA Enhancement. So if one would take remeron or seroquel, with some klonopin, you should sleep fine.
geno
Posted by Gracie2 on June 22, 2002, at 21:26:52
In reply to Re: seroquel for insomnia, posted by geno on June 20, 2002, at 2:54:26
Seroquel has reversed my insomnia. I sleep at night and get up in the morning like everyone else as long as I take it. If I don't take it, I don't sleep.
Seroquel is an anti-pyschotic. I take 400 mg a night as prescribed for bipolar disorder, and it has helped me a great deal.
-Gracie
Posted by LostBoyinNC1 on June 26, 2002, at 1:19:35
In reply to seroquel for insomnia, posted by heiwa on June 17, 2002, at 17:53:48
Taking any anti-psychotic for insomnia is a totally inappropriate use of those drugs. You are risking a bad case of EPS with Seroquel and no psychosis. People with depression are more prone to getting anti-psychotic induced EPS anyway.
There are many other meds which are better for insomnia. Among them are benzos, Remeron, trazadone, Ambien. You can take OTC Valarian root at bedtime. Or calcium/magnesium supplements. Anything but an anti-psychotic. Anti-psychotics for insomnia is CRAZY.
Posted by Gracie2 on June 26, 2002, at 20:25:27
In reply to Re: seroquel for insomnia, posted by Gracie2 on June 22, 2002, at 21:26:52
I did not mean to imply that Seroquel was prescribed to me specifically for insomnia, especially at the high dosage I am taking. That's why I specified that it was used to treat my
bipolar symptoms, which includes chronic insomnia.
-Gracie
Posted by jackstraw232 on September 22, 2002, at 2:10:28
In reply to Re: seroquel for insomnia, posted by Gracie2 on June 22, 2002, at 21:26:52
I agree Gracie. Seroquel quiets my mind down so much that even when I need to urinate really badly, I sleep right through it, and wake up really need to pee.
There are disadvantages and advantages to psycho babble in that we can read subjective opinions freely, but the subjectivity causes, inevitably, in this forum, for some individuals to "play doctor" without any real understanding of the field of medicine.
I agree with you about seroquel and, in my opinion, it is not CRAZY to take it to get good sleep, if it helps you.
Posted by jackstraw232 on September 22, 2002, at 2:21:08
In reply to Re: seroquel for insomnia, posted by missliz on June 18, 2002, at 1:20:36
We appreciate your opinion, but it is likely your reaction to seroquel was unfavorable due to extenuated circumstances. Do not pretend to understand the functionality of the human neuro detail. We are all fortunate to be given a different composite brains; to generalize, in effect, is contradictory in nature, and although your opinion is valid, it is only opinion. Best regards.
Posted by Gracie2 on September 26, 2002, at 21:30:39
In reply to Re: seroquel for insomnia, posted by jackstraw232 on September 22, 2002, at 2:21:08
It is gratifying to see that someone understands where you are coming from, rather than getting defensive.
I cannot stress how terribly my life was being affected by chronic bouts of insomnia. I spent my nights floating about the house like a ghost, tired and depressed and sick. I spent my days exhausted and barely functioning. Insomnia is a living hell. I had used, and then abused, every kind of OTC sleep-aid to the point where they no longer had any kind of effect except, at very high dosages, to make me ill.
Seroquel has changed all that. I take a maintenance dose of 400 mg and I almost never have to take any more than that to sleep well. At the same time, I did say that Seroquel was prescribed to me for my bipolar symptoms, and it has worked well. If I were prescribing for myself, I never would have thought of Seroquel. I know that it's an anti-pyschotic used to treat schizophrenia. I've never considered myself to be psychotic and I'm certainly not schizophrenic. Obviously, Seroquel has multiple uses.
If we've learned anything here on PB, we know that different people have different reactions to different drugs. I shudder at my own experience with Depakote, which turned me into a mindless automan. My own Depakote experiment was so horrendous, I did post several warnings against it, but now I know better. I cannot speak for everyone and have no business pretending that I am any kind of expert on Depakote.
-Gracie
Posted by jackstraw232 on September 27, 2002, at 23:58:00
In reply to Thanks Jackstraw, posted by Gracie2 on September 26, 2002, at 21:30:39
Serequel. The word 'quel' means to quiet or silence. I have one suggestion to anybody who has trouble sleeping or is depressed: excercise. For most people, this is too much to ask. Just try it. Discipline yourself. Make yourself do it. Run three miles a day, even if it hurts. After two weeks, you will feel strong. Healthy. It will help with any depression. Running, like any excersise, increases endorphins, natural opiates excreted as a natural human reward for the effort. Many people wonder why they feel bad and I ask them: Do you excersise? They always say no. If you are in that category and are not suffering from some affliction that restricts your movement and complain of depression or insomnia--get off of your behind and try excersise. You will thank yourself. Your friend, Jack.
Posted by Marathon Man on September 28, 2002, at 9:19:20
In reply to I like excercise, posted by jackstraw232 on September 27, 2002, at 23:58:00
Does exercise cure cancer? Does exercise cure diabetes? Does it cure a broken leg? Its not a cure for all depressions either. It's great if it has helped you. The down side in my opinion to the message that exercise is the secret to escapeing depression, is that it is'nt true in most cases. Also it suggests that all the person with depression needs to do is pull themselves out of depression.
Posted by IsoM on September 28, 2002, at 11:49:36
In reply to Exercise not sure treatment, posted by Marathon Man on September 28, 2002, at 9:19:20
I agree with you, MM. Still, it's surprising how much exercise will 'help' many with depression even if it doesn't stop it.
The level of exercise & activity needed seems to vary though (if it does help such a person). In talking with my bio prof, she said a couple hours a week was enough to keep her up. But with me, I found I needed to stay with a couple hours a day of sustained high physical activity (aerobic & muscle work). If I couldn't keep at it for even a few days, the full force of the depression would return.
Moral: we're all different & while exercise is recommended for everyone, there's more involved than just that.
Posted by jackstraw232 on September 28, 2002, at 13:05:20
In reply to Re: Exercise not sure treatment » Marathon Man, posted by IsoM on September 28, 2002, at 11:49:36
Given, no solution will work for everyone, as a rule. Yet, in an overwhelming majority of cases the severely depressed who do not respond to excersise are a slim few; and might I mention again (as mentioned in the original post regarding this matter) that if there are extenuating circumstance that hinder the ability for one to endure cardio-vascuar activities, then by all means forgo this method. But when we generalize, we have to condsider the majority method. Thank you, however, for your energetic responses.
Posted by jay beck on July 4, 2003, at 17:32:34
In reply to Re: Exercise not sure treatment » IsoM, posted by jackstraw232 on September 28, 2002, at 13:05:20
exercise is ver benificial for any human in multiple different ways. i put it under the catagory of eating right, taking proper nutriants/suppliments. its a huge health benifit to exercise and mentaly it is proven to help a bit although anyone with major deppresion will tell you the desire or the will to even remotly give a shit about ones personal health is fairly low. i got way more health consiance after my meds started to work and now eat right and exercise. deppresion is not some minor issue that can be simply eliminated by exercising or even just one addition to someones life.
Posted by jay beck on July 4, 2003, at 17:57:37
In reply to seroquel for insomnia, posted by heiwa on June 17, 2002, at 17:53:48
o ya, using anti-psychotics only for insomnia is crazy and discusting. anti-psychotics can zombie you out, extreme sedation, make you lame and boring, cover the true personality you have and destroy your creative energy. they, as a whole, are horrible drugs and should only be used if they have to be. there a ton of other options for insomnia and almost any of them are better then getting a psychotropic drug with a shit load of side-effects, that can alter you as a person for the negative.
Posted by whiterabbit on July 4, 2003, at 18:51:08
In reply to Re: seroquel for insomnia, posted by jay beck on July 4, 2003, at 17:57:37
I've ALWAYS said VERY specifically that I DO NOT
take Seroquel for insomnia. ALWAYS. I take Seroquel as a treatment for my bipolar symptoms,
which INCLUDES insomnia induced by mania. Big difference.Say what you like about Seroquel. This drug saved my life, I mean that literally. I would be dead today without it.
-Gracie
Posted by Caleb462 on July 5, 2003, at 0:09:27
In reply to Re: seroquel for insomnia, posted by jay beck on July 4, 2003, at 17:57:37
> o ya, using anti-psychotics only for insomnia is crazy and discusting. anti-psychotics can zombie you out, extreme sedation, make you lame and boring, cover the true personality you have and destroy your creative energy. they, as a whole, are horrible drugs and should only be used if they have to be. there a ton of other options for insomnia and almost any of them are better then getting a psychotropic drug with a shit load of side-effects, that can alter you as a person for the negative.
Seroquel's half-life is only around 5 or 6 hours I believe... meaning if you are taking it at night for insomnia, it is probably night going to be effecting you during the day. I agree using APs for insomnia might be a bit overdoing it, but there are two sides to every story - these drugs are neither "bad" nor "good". It depends on individual response.
Posted by galkeepinon on July 5, 2003, at 1:17:38
In reply to Re: seroquel for insomnia, posted by jay beck on July 4, 2003, at 17:57:37
AMEN!!!!!!!!yours truly was on Seroquel for insomnia for 3 years:
-gained 60-70 Lbs.
-zombied me out
-made me very dull
-covered my true personality
which was not an angry one
-vanished my creativity
overall>>>>>>altered me as a person for the negative
Hey jay?
Can you say "I rest my case" *smile*
I agree here with you all the way down the home stretch!gal
> o ya, using anti-psychotics only for insomnia is crazy and discusting. anti-psychotics can zombie you out, extreme sedation, make you lame and boring, cover the true personality you have and destroy your creative energy. they, as a whole, are horrible drugs and should only be used if they have to be. there a ton of other options for insomnia and almost any of them are better then getting a psychotropic drug with a shit load of side-effects, that can alter you as a person for the negative.
Posted by galkeepinon on July 5, 2003, at 1:23:25
In reply to Sigh...., posted by whiterabbit on July 4, 2003, at 18:51:08
hi Gracie, I hear your frustration. Seroquel was a great med for my symptom of not being able to sleep(I'm bipolar too) I wouldn't have stayed on it as long as I did if it didn't help with that. But looking back now, I can see what happened and was happening to me, but during treatment it's hard-very hard to see it and it's hard for me to look back at that.
I am VERY glad that it has saved your life and I DO believe you! And I'm certainly glad you're not dead.
Hang in theregal
>
> I've ALWAYS said VERY specifically that I DO NOT
> take Seroquel for insomnia. ALWAYS. I take Seroquel as a treatment for my bipolar symptoms,
> which INCLUDES insomnia induced by mania. Big difference.
>
> Say what you like about Seroquel. This drug saved my life, I mean that literally. I would be dead today without it.
> -Gracie
Posted by johnj on July 5, 2003, at 10:56:26
In reply to I like excercise, posted by jackstraw232 on September 27, 2002, at 23:58:00
I like the thought on excercise and I miss it more than anything. But, if you suffer from anxiety or panic disorder excercise can make it worse. I am finding this out after going to a depression/anxiety clinic at the local university. My docs just kept saying "excercise is good for depression" but if it increases anixety or induces panic it will not help insomnia. Count yourself lucky if you can excercise and it doesn't affect your mood adversely.
johnj
Posted by jay beck on July 5, 2003, at 17:21:41
In reply to Re: seroquel for insomnia, posted by Caleb462 on July 5, 2003, at 0:09:27
caleb there is such thing as a "good" or "bad" drug, they take "very bad" drugs off the market.
what you consider "bad" or "good" may differ from me, or anyone elese. but lets say there was a drug for headache that caused a little significant irreversable organ damage every time it was used, but it took care of that headache any time very fast. even though it was effective i would call that drug "very bad".
now how about a drug for insomnia that was not addictive, no side effects and you woke up well rested. I would call this a " very good" drug
as for ssris as whole i would call them "pretty good" they are fairly effective with some anoying side-effects, sometimes. even if they don't work for whoever and so and so doesnt get any side-effects.
now to anti-psychotics: they have very bad side-effects, even if you don't intually notice them or don't notice them when being treated with them. as for there effectiveness at helping psychotic disorders, they are usualy not tolarable at the dose required to help a fully scitzophrenic person. if they were we wouldnt need ANYBODY in mental instatutions for scitzophrenia. (besides VERY rare exeptions, not the 20% or so now adays) i have slight paranoid dillusions sometimes and i live with them. why? because anti-psychotics at the dose required to treat me have horrable side effects. so as the thought process would take you. just because whoever has no problem with side-effect and so and so loves his zombie-pills dose not make these drugs any better or worse. they arnt effective enough to completely treat (and i mean even around 90% treat) most scitzophrenics and they have a slew of side-effects. (that WAY more people feel then most other drugs) i would call them "bad" drugs
jay
Posted by whiterabbit on July 5, 2003, at 22:07:51
In reply to Re: seroquel for insomnia » jay beck, posted by galkeepinon on July 5, 2003, at 1:17:38
I'll be the first to admit that the weight gain from Seroquel is demoralizing. Actually I don't know if I can blame it all on Seroquel because I've always been on other medication at the same time, including birth control methods (Depro/Norplant) that can influence weight. But I'm not discounting the Seroquel at all. It takes quite awhile to adjust to this medication and it slows you down considerably while your body builds up a tolerance for it. So - at the very least - Seroquel is responsible for weight gain caused by inactivity.
But I think it's a lot more involved than that. The weight gain seems too profound to be caused by inactivity alone. I've been doing a little research (actually, "research" is way too grand -
"poking around" would be more accurate) and as far as I can tell, nobody has figured out for sure precisely how psych meds cause weight gain
(if they knew for sure, they could probably fix it) - we just have to be patient while they work on that. Probably serotonin is involved, & possibly these medications change the way that your body metabolizes fat.Now right here a lot of people get fired up for a debate. They make different arguments towards the same general conclusion: the unpleasant side effects of these drugs just PROVE that it is
DANGEROUS, UNNATURAL & WRONG to alter or interfere with the natural chemical, biological & physiological processes of the human body.Oh, really? Does that mean if a malignant tumor begins to grow somewhere in your body, or prehaps the body of your child, you would not attempt to interfere with this "natural" growth? You would refuse medical care because the unpleasant side effects of cancer treatment PROVE that we have no right to alter a natural biological process? And what about vaccines that protect us from disfiguring & life-threatening illnesses like diptheria, polio & tuberculosis? The body's "natural" response to deadly viruses are that you may very well sicken & die in an unpleasant manner. And while the vaccine prompts your body to defend itself by way of your own immune system, the process of injecting the dead (harmless) virus to build up resistance could hardly be called "natural".
Now at this point I've been told that I'm comparing apples and oranges because medical treatment for cancer or protection against a virus is "different" than taking psychiatric medication, including the dreaded antipsychotics,
to alter brain chemistry.Alright then, WHY is it different? Because cancer & viruses are potentially lethal while a mood disorder is not? Excuse me but, the last time I checked, suicide was still lethal.
Clinical depression, mood disorders, the wish to harm or do away with oneself - these emotions are as much of an aberration as a malignant tumor.
They are NOT the product of a brain in perfect working order; a desire to self-destruct is exceedingly unnatural in all living things (except a few wierd bugs). It's the result of an illness, a disorder, a condition that we now have the ability to treat due to the continuing advancement of medical science.No, psychiatric drugs are far from ideal. Generally they're slow-acting & can have side effects that are hard to deal with. Used improperly, they can cause emotional havoc in the mind. It takes a considerable amount of time and continued endurance on the patient's part before all the puzzle pieces finally fit into place.
These pieces consist of a competent doctor, proper diagnosis, the best medication (usually a combination of medications) at the most effective dosage, patient compliance, and all the waiting required before small signs of improvement begin to appear. Recovery doesn't come quickly or dramatically but it does come, something like buds of crocus poking up through the snow crust after a hard winter. That's how I think of it anyway.
And for most, the waiting part is the worst. To borrow a phrase from Anne Sexton, it can be compared to "the terrible rowing towards God."
We want quick & painless results & we want them now, but it doesn't work like that. Still, eventual recovery sure beats the hell out of no recovery, ever.From here I'll circle back to the original subject. Weight gain is a scar that many of us pick up along the way. Women especially, we're conditioned to fight poundage at all costs, & sometimes we do terrible things to prevent it. I struggled with this issue myself for a long time,
but after enduring a lifetime of emotional pain that would roll at me in relentless tidal waves -
and after tearing a huge path of destruction through my life, hurting myself and the people I loved over and over again - I made a grueling decision. I had to stop worrying about my weight, had to stop beating myself up over every pound gained. I HAD to get well, HAD to make healing my
tortured mind a priority over weight gain & the other unpleasant side effects.Because I couldn't suffer anymore, I just couldn't keep taking it again and again with no respite, no quarter, and no hope in sight. I was self-medicating with drugs & alcohol right into the grave, hospitalized twice after overdosing & nearly made it once, came real close, but they got me to the ER in time, pumped my stomach & I woke up in ICU from a coma just in time, once again, to avoid a tracheotomy so they could hook up me up to a ventilator. They were talking about it, though, warned my husband it might be called for.
So medication was my last hope, and I was determined to give it a chance, not much to lose.
I took my pills, I took them like I was supposed to, and I kept taking them. I endured the weight gain, the sexual dysfunction, the lethargy, the fuzzy thinking. I handled it all the best way I could & often despaired, but I stuck with it, grimly determined to give the medication every opportunity to help me, to make me well.And it worked. My God, it really did work after all - finally. The side effects began to fade and I started to feel better. My energy came back, my thinking cleared up, and I'm no longer tormented by an unbalanced mind. And it is largely due to an antipsychotic, Seroquel. I don't consider myself to be "depersonalized", although I am, literally, reprogrammed. If I'm a different person now it's only because I no longer consider living a gruesome effort and a pointless, terrible charade. Far from being a zombie, it is now within my ability to grasp at a gold ring that was always out of reach before: appreciation for life, hope for the future, and even an occasional glimpse at joy.
It is your right to decide that you don't wish to use antipsychotics or any other drug. But it is not your right to discourage others from taking a prescribed medication that could improve their quality of life immeasurably. Turning your particular bias into misinformation aimed at all others is harmful, and assuming that a medication is "bad" for everyone because you didn't care for it yourself is an uneducated and mistaken assumption.
-Gracie
Posted by galkeepinon on July 5, 2003, at 23:04:35
In reply to Seroquel weight gain and other evils, posted by whiterabbit on July 5, 2003, at 22:07:51
Gracie, great post!!!! This took a lot of smarts and a lot of time on your part. Good for you. All I hear sometimes is that this med is bad or this med is good it gets exhausting a lot of the time-it really does. I had posted above to you this>>>>hi Gracie, I hear your frustration. Seroquel was a great med for my symptom of not being able to sleep(I'm bipolar too) I wouldn't have stayed on it as long as I did if it didn't help with that. But looking back now, I can see what happened and was happening to me, but during treatment it's hard-very hard to see it and it's hard for me to look back at that.
I am VERY glad that it has saved your life and I DO believe you! And I'm certainly glad you're not dead.
Hang in there Everybody is different and you are making your point-that is great!!! I hear you.
Keep it up-you sound really level headed!Gal
I'll be the first to admit that the weight gain from Seroquel is demoralizing. Actually I don't know if I can blame it all on Seroquel because I've always been on other medication at the same time, including birth control methods (Depro/Norplant) that can influence weight. But I'm not discounting the Seroquel at all. It takes quite awhile to adjust to this medication and it slows you down considerably while your body builds up a tolerance for it. So - at the very least - Seroquel is responsible for weight gain caused by inactivity.
>
> But I think it's a lot more involved than that. The weight gain seems too profound to be caused by inactivity alone. I've been doing a little research (actually, "research" is way too grand -
> "poking around" would be more accurate) and as far as I can tell, nobody has figured out for sure precisely how psych meds cause weight gain
> (if they knew for sure, they could probably fix it) - we just have to be patient while they work on that. Probably serotonin is involved, & possibly these medications change the way that your body metabolizes fat.
>
> Now right here a lot of people get fired up for a debate. They make different arguments towards the same general conclusion: the unpleasant side effects of these drugs just PROVE that it is
> DANGEROUS, UNNATURAL & WRONG to alter or interfere with the natural chemical, biological & physiological processes of the human body.
>
> Oh, really? Does that mean if a malignant tumor begins to grow somewhere in your body, or prehaps the body of your child, you would not attempt to interfere with this "natural" growth? You would refuse medical care because the unpleasant side effects of cancer treatment PROVE that we have no right to alter a natural biological process? And what about vaccines that protect us from disfiguring & life-threatening illnesses like diptheria, polio & tuberculosis? The body's "natural" response to deadly viruses are that you may very well sicken & die in an unpleasant manner. And while the vaccine prompts your body to defend itself by way of your own immune system, the process of injecting the dead (harmless) virus to build up resistance could hardly be called "natural".
>
> Now at this point I've been told that I'm comparing apples and oranges because medical treatment for cancer or protection against a virus is "different" than taking psychiatric medication, including the dreaded antipsychotics,
> to alter brain chemistry.
>
> Alright then, WHY is it different? Because cancer & viruses are potentially lethal while a mood disorder is not? Excuse me but, the last time I checked, suicide was still lethal.
>
> Clinical depression, mood disorders, the wish to harm or do away with oneself - these emotions are as much of an aberration as a malignant tumor.
> They are NOT the product of a brain in perfect working order; a desire to self-destruct is exceedingly unnatural in all living things (except a few wierd bugs). It's the result of an illness, a disorder, a condition that we now have the ability to treat due to the continuing advancement of medical science.
>
> No, psychiatric drugs are far from ideal. Generally they're slow-acting & can have side effects that are hard to deal with. Used improperly, they can cause emotional havoc in the mind. It takes a considerable amount of time and continued endurance on the patient's part before all the puzzle pieces finally fit into place.
>
> These pieces consist of a competent doctor, proper diagnosis, the best medication (usually a combination of medications) at the most effective dosage, patient compliance, and all the waiting required before small signs of improvement begin to appear. Recovery doesn't come quickly or dramatically but it does come, something like buds of crocus poking up through the snow crust after a hard winter. That's how I think of it anyway.
>
> And for most, the waiting part is the worst. To borrow a phrase from Anne Sexton, it can be compared to "the terrible rowing towards God."
> We want quick & painless results & we want them now, but it doesn't work like that. Still, eventual recovery sure beats the hell out of no recovery, ever.
>
> From here I'll circle back to the original subject. Weight gain is a scar that many of us pick up along the way. Women especially, we're conditioned to fight poundage at all costs, & sometimes we do terrible things to prevent it. I struggled with this issue myself for a long time,
> but after enduring a lifetime of emotional pain that would roll at me in relentless tidal waves -
> and after tearing a huge path of destruction through my life, hurting myself and the people I loved over and over again - I made a grueling decision. I had to stop worrying about my weight, had to stop beating myself up over every pound gained. I HAD to get well, HAD to make healing my
> tortured mind a priority over weight gain & the other unpleasant side effects.
>
> Because I couldn't suffer anymore, I just couldn't keep taking it again and again with no respite, no quarter, and no hope in sight. I was self-medicating with drugs & alcohol right into the grave, hospitalized twice after overdosing & nearly made it once, came real close, but they got me to the ER in time, pumped my stomach & I woke up in ICU from a coma just in time, once again, to avoid a tracheotomy so they could hook up me up to a ventilator. They were talking about it, though, warned my husband it might be called for.
>
> So medication was my last hope, and I was determined to give it a chance, not much to lose.
> I took my pills, I took them like I was supposed to, and I kept taking them. I endured the weight gain, the sexual dysfunction, the lethargy, the fuzzy thinking. I handled it all the best way I could & often despaired, but I stuck with it, grimly determined to give the medication every opportunity to help me, to make me well.
>
> And it worked. My God, it really did work after all - finally. The side effects began to fade and I started to feel better. My energy came back, my thinking cleared up, and I'm no longer tormented by an unbalanced mind. And it is largely due to an antipsychotic, Seroquel. I don't consider myself to be "depersonalized", although I am, literally, reprogrammed. If I'm a different person now it's only because I no longer consider living a gruesome effort and a pointless, terrible charade. Far from being a zombie, it is now within my ability to grasp at a gold ring that was always out of reach before: appreciation for life, hope for the future, and even an occasional glimpse at joy.
>
> It is your right to decide that you don't wish to use antipsychotics or any other drug. But it is not your right to discourage others from taking a prescribed medication that could improve their quality of life immeasurably. Turning your particular bias into misinformation aimed at all others is harmful, and assuming that a medication is "bad" for everyone because you didn't care for it yourself is an uneducated and mistaken assumption.
>
> -Gracie
>
>
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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