![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 2154 to 2178 of 10407. Go back in thread:
Posted by Reneb on May 21, 2002, at 13:25:27
In reply to Re: how long until you felt better?, posted by renelso1 on May 21, 2002, at 13:05:32
> sly,
> i have also been on effexor xr for a month. i started much quicker than you though. 75 for a week and then jumped up to 150 right away. looking back i wish my doc had started me out slower cos the side effects were horrid. once i had been on 150 for about a week the numbness went away. i certainly don't feel 100% better but my suicidal tendencies are really decreasing and i'm making slow progress. i would talk to your doc about bumping up your dose. then give it another month. i know the waiting is crazy, but i'm all out of other solutions. good luck to you!!
> r.
>
>
> > I'm new to Effexor XR, been on it for about a month, 2 weeks at 37.5mg and now 2 weeks at 75mg. I'm not having any troubling side effects, but I don't really feel any better.
> >
> > My Dr. said I should be starting to feel better after 4 weeks, less sad, less crying, but all I really feel is numb, spaced out, distant, isolated, almost invisible... my mind is foggy, I can't concentrate, I hardly do any work anymore. A few days ago I started to cry at my desk, I've never done that before, but lately it seems like everything upsets me, before I used to wish I was dead, couldn't really bear living, couldn't see a way for life to get better so why draw it out, every day is so painful - now that I'm on Effexor I've started planning to kill myself, where, how, when... I thought I was supposed to get better, how long until this medication starts to work?
> >
> > Did anyone else feel like this?
Oh Yes!!! I was on effexor for over a year. I became extremely numb to everything around me. Things I liked to do I wasn't doing anymore. I had no motivation to get anything done and was always tired!!! As soon as I started to wein myself off effexor I felt my energy level come back.. it was amazing. I did realize what a fog i was in. I think effexor works great. I think you have to decide if feeling nothing is okay for you. I just couldn't deal with it. I didn't like the fact that I wasn't living anymore.Renee
Posted by Reneb on May 21, 2002, at 14:54:50
In reply to Re: Effexor - Exercise - Bad experience, posted by kpo2002 on May 18, 2002, at 1:53:32
> Whatever I said before--I changed my mind. I started Effexor XR 37.5 at the end of March. The first 4 weeks were very good, increased energy and pain relief. A few regular swimmers even commented on my stroke. Then, I experienced a dramatic decrease in pain relief and energy, which was replaced by a sense of calm, causing 10 days of depression. I shook myself out of that convincing myself that I had at least held on to a portion of the pain relief, plus I did feel less aggravated by my whole "pain, poverty and filth" situation. But then the CALM just kept on coming, until I realized that I had been unable to do anything all week. Most of my time from Sun.-Thurs. had been spent lounging on the couch. The problem was that I didn't feel bad or tired, I actually felt very awake and alert--I thought that I was just being lazy, I felt good, I just had no energy for physical movement. On Friday I felt weak and dizzy upon getting out of bed--But I didn't feel bad. I went straight to the couch, then back to bed, then I decided that I had had enough of that Effexor and made the decision to discontinue. I spent the day on the couch,I went to the pool in the evening and sat in the car for 45 minutes before I could face that pool. I could not finish my normal 15 minute workout and became dizzy and weak. In the shower my hand passed over my heart and it was racing. My pulse was 120 and the paramedics were called. My blood pressure was 136 the first time that they took it and 126 the second time they took it after they had given me oxygen for a minute or two (normally 110 is high for me). I'm finished with Effexor, unless I need to take some to avoid withdrawal symptoms.
Boy, I understand what you are saying! I exercise everyday. In the spring I increase my exercise to get ready for the races. I love to run!! I couldn't believe the difference it made being on effexor. It would take everything I had to run what I used to run with ease. My friends were really concerned because they couldn't believe that my energy level had fallen so much. I too decided that was enough. I wein myself off which took at least 2 months. I am so glad to be rid of that stuff.Renee
Posted by gare on May 21, 2002, at 15:00:18
In reply to Re: Effexor - Exercise - Bad experience » kpo2002, posted by Reneb on May 21, 2002, at 14:54:50
> > Whatever I said before--I changed my mind. I started Effexor XR 37.5 at the end of March. The first 4 weeks were very good, increased energy and pain relief. A few regular swimmers even commented on my stroke. Then, I experienced a dramatic decrease in pain relief and energy, which was replaced by a sense of calm, causing 10 days of depression. I shook myself out of that convincing myself that I had at least held on to a portion of the pain relief, plus I did feel less aggravated by my whole "pain, poverty and filth" situation. But then the CALM just kept on coming, until I realized that I had been unable to do anything all week. Most of my time from Sun.-Thurs. had been spent lounging on the couch. The problem was that I didn't feel bad or tired, I actually felt very awake and alert--I thought that I was just being lazy, I felt good, I just had no energy for physical movement. On Friday I felt weak and dizzy upon getting out of bed--But I didn't feel bad. I went straight to the couch, then back to bed, then I decided that I had had enough of that Effexor and made the decision to discontinue. I spent the day on the couch,I went to the pool in the evening and sat in the car for 45 minutes before I could face that pool. I could not finish my normal 15 minute workout and became dizzy and weak. In the shower my hand passed over my heart and it was racing. My pulse was 120 and the paramedics were called. My blood pressure was 136 the first time that they took it and 126 the second time they took it after they had given me oxygen for a minute or two (normally 110 is high for me). I'm finished with Effexor, unless I need to take some to avoid withdrawal symptoms.
>
>
> Boy, I understand what you are saying! I exercise everyday. In the spring I increase my exercise to get ready for the races. I love to run!! I couldn't believe the difference it made being on effexor. It would take everything I had to run what I used to run with ease. My friends were really concerned because they couldn't believe that my energy level had fallen so much. I too decided that was enough. I wein myself off which took at least 2 months. I am so glad to be rid of that stuff.
>
> ReneeHi Renee...I think you replied to one of my post's before. I, too, am a jogger - maybe not fast like you, and do yoga, and during the first eight weeks on Effexor XR, I didn't have any motivation to do much of anything even though I didn't lose my desire.
As I mentioned before, I was taking Effexor XR at 6 pm in the evening and it's made a world of a difference taking it at 2 pm.
I am still at 2 pm with great results.
I have been back on my yoga routine and built up to my regular 1 hour jog this Sunday.
I don't have zaps in energy and I don't claim that Effexor XR gives me the boost either but I feel that I am able to do all my activities that I loved to do before.
Now if I could only write my book!
Did you ever try adjusting the time you took Effexor XR?
Has anyone else adjusted the time and found their best time to take Effexor XR?
Gare
Posted by Reneb on May 21, 2002, at 15:06:39
In reply to Re: Effexor - Exercise - Better Experience, posted by gare on May 21, 2002, at 15:00:18
> > > Whatever I said before--I changed my mind. I started Effexor XR 37.5 at the end of March. The first 4 weeks were very good, increased energy and pain relief. A few regular swimmers even commented on my stroke. Then, I experienced a dramatic decrease in pain relief and energy, which was replaced by a sense of calm, causing 10 days of depression. I shook myself out of that convincing myself that I had at least held on to a portion of the pain relief, plus I did feel less aggravated by my whole "pain, poverty and filth" situation. But then the CALM just kept on coming, until I realized that I had been unable to do anything all week. Most of my time from Sun.-Thurs. had been spent lounging on the couch. The problem was that I didn't feel bad or tired, I actually felt very awake and alert--I thought that I was just being lazy, I felt good, I just had no energy for physical movement. On Friday I felt weak and dizzy upon getting out of bed--But I didn't feel bad. I went straight to the couch, then back to bed, then I decided that I had had enough of that Effexor and made the decision to discontinue. I spent the day on the couch,I went to the pool in the evening and sat in the car for 45 minutes before I could face that pool. I could not finish my normal 15 minute workout and became dizzy and weak. In the shower my hand passed over my heart and it was racing. My pulse was 120 and the paramedics were called. My blood pressure was 136 the first time that they took it and 126 the second time they took it after they had given me oxygen for a minute or two (normally 110 is high for me). I'm finished with Effexor, unless I need to take some to avoid withdrawal symptoms.
> >
> >
> > Boy, I understand what you are saying! I exercise everyday. In the spring I increase my exercise to get ready for the races. I love to run!! I couldn't believe the difference it made being on effexor. It would take everything I had to run what I used to run with ease. My friends were really concerned because they couldn't believe that my energy level had fallen so much. I too decided that was enough. I wein myself off which took at least 2 months. I am so glad to be rid of that stuff.
> >
> > Renee
>
> Hi Renee...I think you replied to one of my post's before. I, too, am a jogger - maybe not fast like you, and do yoga, and during the first eight weeks on Effexor XR, I didn't have any motivation to do much of anything even though I didn't lose my desire.
>
> As I mentioned before, I was taking Effexor XR at 6 pm in the evening and it's made a world of a difference taking it at 2 pm.
>
> I am still at 2 pm with great results.
>
> I have been back on my yoga routine and built up to my regular 1 hour jog this Sunday.
>
> I don't have zaps in energy and I don't claim that Effexor XR gives me the boost either but I feel that I am able to do all my activities that I loved to do before.
>
> Now if I could only write my book!
>
> Did you ever try adjusting the time you took Effexor XR?
>
> Has anyone else adjusted the time and found their best time to take Effexor XR?
>
> GareHi Gare, No I didn't try doing that. I was on 300mg of effexor. I was taking 150mg in the morning and 150mg in the afternoon/evening time. I just think that it was to much for my system. I did work on my depression..almost too good. I wasn't feeling anything and that's not good either. I just started taking a yoga class. I couldn't believe how unflexible I am. It's all those years of running and biking and not enough stretching. I am going to continue the yoga. I thought it was great!!! what kind of yoga do you do?
Renee
Posted by gare on May 21, 2002, at 15:20:00
In reply to Re: Effexor - Exercise - Better Experience » gare, posted by Reneb on May 21, 2002, at 15:06:39
I use to live in NYC so that is where I picked it up on the advice of my then boss.
I mostly practice Iyengar yoga, which can easily be obtained by Living Arts video series featuring Rodney Yee and Patricia Walden. Excellent if you are a beginner and very well priced (if you have a Target or Wal-Mart, you can get the VHS versions for as little as $6.99).
I think power yoga is great too for those who feel that regular yoga class isn't challenging enough.
I use to hate downward facing dog but now I use it to release the tension I store in my shoulders and upper back.
As with drugs not working overnight, don't expect to become a pretzel over night either. Just know that one day you will be able to. It's not important what the date is, but that today you just practice your yoga, or whatever your heart's desire is.
I find that doing a 20 minute yoga routine prior to my jogging gives me the endurance and comfort than without.
Are you a follower of warming up before a jog or just after?
gare
Posted by Reneb on May 21, 2002, at 16:03:06
In reply to Re: Effexor - Exercise - Better Experience, posted by gare on May 21, 2002, at 15:20:00
> I use to live in NYC so that is where I picked it up on the advice of my then boss.
>
> I mostly practice Iyengar yoga, which can easily be obtained by Living Arts video series featuring Rodney Yee and Patricia Walden. Excellent if you are a beginner and very well priced (if you have a Target or Wal-Mart, you can get the VHS versions for as little as $6.99).
>
> I think power yoga is great too for those who feel that regular yoga class isn't challenging enough.
>
> I use to hate downward facing dog but now I use it to release the tension I store in my shoulders and upper back.
>
> As with drugs not working overnight, don't expect to become a pretzel over night either. Just know that one day you will be able to. It's not important what the date is, but that today you just practice your yoga, or whatever your heart's desire is.
>
> I find that doing a 20 minute yoga routine prior to my jogging gives me the endurance and comfort than without.
>
> Are you a follower of warming up before a jog or just after?
>
> gare
Gare, thanks for the info. Well, they are telling us know that you should stretch much before a run??? most of your stretching should be done after.Renee
Posted by LynnPerley on May 21, 2002, at 20:46:52
In reply to how long until you felt better?, posted by sly on May 21, 2002, at 10:38:23
Give it a few more weeks, sly. I'm not sure if you found my post 8 Weeks of Effexor or something like that - it's on another thread. I experienced a great lift of that foggy feeling around the sixth week or seventh week of 150 mg. I also agree you should seek some form of counseling if you are not seeking it already.
Incidentally, I was prescribed Effexor by a family doc after a licensed "counselor", not a psydoc or psytherapist, recommended that I talk to my doc about medication for anxiety and depression. He first gave me generic prozac and set the follow up appt at two weeks. I had to stop due to side effect (bruxism). Then he switched me to effexor xr, gave me a starter pack and a scrip, and set the follow up appt at three months because he said it might take that long for me to ascertain if it truly was beneficial. He did encourage me to call earlier if I needed to discuss any concerns. I also have not experienced suicidal thoughts at all, before or after meds, just anxiety and depression that was long lasting and interfering with work and family life.
Posted by Spencer on May 22, 2002, at 4:13:23
In reply to how long until you felt better?, posted by sly on May 21, 2002, at 10:38:23
Sly
What you describe is exactly what I experienced, but I eventually came right.
When I first went to my GP with severe depression (August last year), he put me on Prozac and warned me that it would take 6-8 weeks to feel better and that things would get worse before they got better. After a week of no sleep (following about two months of very little sleep) and feeling much much worse that when I first went to him, he sent me to a psychiatrist who started me on Efexor XR (37.5mg building up to 150mg) also with the warning that I would get worse before feeling better. They were right......I was desperate. Somehow I dragged myself out of bed and to work every morning, but actually didn't do anything for about 2 months. But then things slowly slowly turned around....I went to a psychologist for therapy and eventually I felt fine and better than I had for many years. The whole process took about 4 months including the therapy, although the Efexor was working properly after after about 2 months. I also had very good family and friend support.
I was on the 150mg XR until a week ago and am now weaning off ...I take 75mg XR plus 35mg plain Efexor...so far so good.
Don't give up, Sly.......it may take another 2-4 weeks and if you don't feel better, you may need a higher dose. Get help from somebody who understands the medication. There seem to be a lot of people who are seeing doctors who are ignorant of what happens with Efexor and the subsequent withdrawal.
Good luck and please keep us all informed of how you get on.
Posted by sly on May 22, 2002, at 8:16:13
In reply to Re: how long until you felt better? » sly, posted by Spencer on May 22, 2002, at 4:13:23
Thanks Spencer, it's nice to know someone else feels the same way.
It was actually my family Dr. that prescribed Effexor, I went to see him after I met with a counsellor who told me to speak to my Dr. about medication, she said therapy might be easier if I was on meds. because it would give me more energy and help me feel better about myself - no one really prepared me to deal with the possibility that it would get worse before it got better. My family Dr.'s ok, he follows up with me every 2 weeks, I have to go in and meet with him and let him know how I'm doing. So far I've just been seeing a Social Worker, but this week I'm starting therapy with a Psychologist - I'm up in Canada, the wait for a Psychiatrist is too long and besides, Psychiatrists don't talk (from what I've been told) - I know this depression won't lift until I deal with some of the issues that send me to bed crying at night.
Thanks again for your help!
> Sly
>
> What you describe is exactly what I experienced, but I eventually came right.
>
> When I first went to my GP with severe depression (August last year), he put me on Prozac and warned me that it would take 6-8 weeks to feel better and that things would get worse before they got better. After a week of no sleep (following about two months of very little sleep) and feeling much much worse that when I first went to him, he sent me to a psychiatrist who started me on Efexor XR (37.5mg building up to 150mg) also with the warning that I would get worse before feeling better. They were right......I was desperate. Somehow I dragged myself out of bed and to work every morning, but actually didn't do anything for about 2 months. But then things slowly slowly turned around....I went to a psychologist for therapy and eventually I felt fine and better than I had for many years. The whole process took about 4 months including the therapy, although the Efexor was working properly after after about 2 months. I also had very good family and friend support.
>
> I was on the 150mg XR until a week ago and am now weaning off ...I take 75mg XR plus 35mg plain Efexor...so far so good.
>
> Don't give up, Sly.......it may take another 2-4 weeks and if you don't feel better, you may need a higher dose. Get help from somebody who understands the medication. There seem to be a lot of people who are seeing doctors who are ignorant of what happens with Efexor and the subsequent withdrawal.
>
> Good luck and please keep us all informed of how you get on.
Posted by azurebay on May 22, 2002, at 18:17:50
In reply to Re: watch out girls-renelso 1, posted by supergirl on May 21, 2002, at 12:52:49
About Those Pet Peeves:
Yikes! Trust me to offend someone my second post (lol supergirl). Of course you'll have to take into account the fact that alcohol (my one night fling per week) may have played a part in that dubiously misspelled mess of a post. Sorry about that.
In all seriousness, Gare is right about a good combo of a psychiatrist + therapist, and that was my honest intent - better said, "The bottom-line."
Let me just say this, and I'll stop before I put foot-in-mouth again. THE PROBLEM WITH PSYCHIATRIC DRUGS, at least IMHO, is the range and scope of any Tom, Dick or Harry, M.D. who is unquestioningly given power to prescibe them! I mean think about it; would you see an OBGYN for a Neurological problem? A psychiatrist for a pregnancy test (and believe me, I once asked my pdoc to do that for my g/f, now wife, and he didn't have the foggiest clue about how to order the test... whew, thank God!)?
Unfortunately, the public in general has fallen prey to heavy media influence, with a lot of "unspecialized" practitioners also falling prey to both patient pressure as well as the wine-me-dine-me pharmaceutical reps. Next thing ya know, millions of people are taking psychotropic medications... and THAT should (for the most part) be left to the pros, aka the psychiatrists.
I think any General Practioner of Medicine (ya I mean the vast majority of ALL YOU GP's or Family Docs, Physician's Assistants, Nurse Practitioners), have no business playing psychiatrist or writing scripts for these meds except to, perhaps, prescribe-AND-refer. Period. Ya haven't enough time to keep up on the latest anti-fungal agents, let alone grasp the complex neuro-chemistry of these disorders and the faces behind the masks in five-minute office visits, and that's the truth.
Hope the pet peev is now clarified. Oh, btw, I don't have a GP, but now have a great OBGYN, along with my psychiatrist...
Smiles Always,
Azure
Posted by mckmc on May 22, 2002, at 19:15:51
In reply to how long until you felt better?, posted by sly on May 21, 2002, at 10:38:23
Sly,
I'm a Psychology student and I have learned quite a bit recently about anti-depressants that I did not learn from my doc. For example, sometimes the first thing many patients who start taking anti-depressants want to do is to kill themselves. The reason I was given was that the anti-depressant meds will give you some energy and maybe a bit more direction; sort or how you might have felt prior to feeling depressed. Anyhow, my point is that feeling like you want to make plans for anything is a good sign. The problem is that your plans will have a very negative effect. You should really try to see your doc. or get some sort of support network around you. Tell people how you are feeling, don't keep it just for this site. Anti-depressants can make you feel energetic enough to want to follow-through with your thoughts and plans. Get some more help, be as patient as possible and don't be upset that you were crying at work, be glad that you noticed that this was not normal for you. You are obviously noticing behaviour about yourself that is changing, keep a diary or journal of your emotional changes. It takes a lot of time and energy to feel better. I've been there 2 times already, I have a feeling I undertand where you are coming from.
> I'm new to Effexor XR, been on it for about a month, 2 weeks at 37.5mg and now 2 weeks at 75mg. I'm not having any troubling side effects, but I don't really feel any better.
>
> My Dr. said I should be starting to feel better after 4 weeks, less sad, less crying, but all I really feel is numb, spaced out, distant, isolated, almost invisible... my mind is foggy, I can't concentrate, I hardly do any work anymore. A few days ago I started to cry at my desk, I've never done that before, but lately it seems like everything upsets me, before I used to wish I was dead, couldn't really bear living, couldn't see a way for life to get better so why draw it out, every day is so painful - now that I'm on Effexor I've started planning to kill myself, where, how, when... I thought I was supposed to get better, how long until this medication starts to work?
>
> Did anyone else feel like this?
Posted by PamelaLynn on May 22, 2002, at 21:55:18
In reply to Switching from Effexor to Remeron, posted by Butterfly on May 18, 2002, at 11:51:59
Hello to you too Georges.
I too was on Effexor XR for quite a long time. I got the 'euphoria' feelings too, for the first couple of months and liked it. I went off of it, it seemed to just fizzle out on me......I had been on Remeron in the past, didn't seem to help, but my shrink said "let's try it again". I started at the 15mg strength 'Sol Tabs'. (As you get higher in mg's on Remeron you lose the tranquilizing effects). I am now on 30mg's of it, and along w/Lamictal for my rapid mood swings/Borderline Personality Disorder. I seem to be doing better......Getting off the couch w/in the last few days to be honest.....We shall see huh? Good luck to you.
P.L.
> Hi
>
> Went to my physician to find an alternative to Effexor. Not been long on Effexor, but long enough to see some bothersome (sexual for the most part) side-effects as I have reported before.
>
> This time we picked Remeron, 15mg to begin with.
> I like the idea of Remeron since it's supposed to help sleep and I'm sleeping bad for years, a condition worsened by Effexor lately; it's not supposed to have any impact on sexuality either.
> I will monitor my weigh closely though, since weight gain is one possible side-effect (I'm 6'2" 200 lbs right now; I hope Ican write the same thing in 3 months !).
>
> First pill yesterday at 9 PM. Maximum effect is supposed to come 2 hrs after taking the pill. 90 min later I was so groggy and drowsy I had to sleep. Couldn't concentrate, read or do anything. Almost walking as if I was drunk.
>
> Slept long, but awakened a few times during the night.
>
> This morning I'm feeling OK, not drowsy as I was anticipating, but fairly well rest. I don't have this light "euphoria" I was having when on Effexor, - and which I liked (...).
>
> I was also anxious to check if sex would be impaired (seriously delayed ejaculation with Effexor), but everything seems OK on this side as well (...).
>
> So far so good as we say. If things stay like this and I can bring the depression/anxiety to a more reasonable level, I will be very happy.
>
> Georges
Posted by johnlund on May 22, 2002, at 22:50:36
In reply to Re: Effexor - Exercise - Better Experience, posted by gare on May 21, 2002, at 15:00:18
I take Effexor right away in the morning when I get up. I have never had a lack of energy on Effexor. Effexor is the best AD I have ever been on, and I have been on most. I have been on Effexor for almost 3 years at 150mg per day. I have some sexual side effects, but I can live with them by taking Viagra. Because I have had depression all my life, and fall into it very easily, I will be on it the rest of my life. I only wonder what the long term effects are? Does it put a strain on the Liver or any other organ?
I guess even if it did, I would have to take my chances.
Posted by Spencer on May 23, 2002, at 1:12:01
In reply to Re: how long until you felt better?, posted by sly on May 22, 2002, at 8:16:13
Sly
It's great to hear that you have a positive attitude and I agree that the medication really only deals with physiological issues and not with the psychological. I was very lucky and was recommended to a brilliant psychologist (my psychiatrist just talks about her problems) Through my psychologist I realised that for most of my life I have been digging myself into a pit with irrational thoughts about many things in my life. I have also worked for the same company for nearly 20 years and my boss of most of those years put me down at very critical stages in my career. I realise now that over the years my self esteem and self confidence were just being eroded away and eventually I just believed I was absolutely useless. We had a major retrenchment phase last year and even though I survived, the stress and anxiety of feeling that if I lost my job I would not get another one (because I felt useless) and would not be able to support my family, drove me into deep depression.
I also realise that I have suffered a lot from depression in the past but somehow was always able to lift myself out. Anyway, I have subsequently moved to another division in the company. Through the therapy, I have regained my self confidence amnd self esteem and am now really enjoying my life and my work.
The only reason I'm gassing on like this is that maybe someone can identify with these issues. I'm lucky in that I don't suffer from chronic depression or anxiety and that is maybe why Effexor has been so effective for me. But the turning point was the therapy and the understanding of the concept of irrational thinking and how destructive it is. The other thing I realise is that I should have joined another company and got away from my boss who was having such a negative effect.
Sly, as you say, if you can work on what makes you feel so depressed, then maybe the physiological issues will resolve themselves. Hopefully the Effexor will make you feel better and give you the opportunity to benefit fully from the therapy.
Keep in touch and "Vas byt" (pronounced "fass bait" as they say here in South Africa.....it means "stay with it")
Spencer
Posted by gare on May 23, 2002, at 7:32:48
In reply to Re: Switching from Effexor to Remeron » Butterfly, posted by PamelaLynn on May 22, 2002, at 21:55:18
I have read so many posts about people not liking Effexor XR/Regular within the first month or so and then desperately trying to find the next best fix.
I also have read that many people who have stuck it out for about two-four months while the Effexor XR adjusts in their system - despite the side effects of sleep disturbance, euphoric feelings, delayed ejaculation (at least you can get it up right?), dry mouth, among other things -but now are reporting benefits that seemed weren't going to come.
Also, it is interesting to note how many postings about regular docs prescribing these psychotropic medications versus a good psychiatrist + psychotherapist team to get you through.
I am wondering what is really up with switcharoo of meds:
(1) Are many of us too impatient to hang in there - being aware that as the saying goes, things have to get worse before they get rosey?
(2) Are many of us being misdiagnosed by the primary care physician (not psychiatrist) that these drugs have been misappropriately prescribed and therefore we are not achieving the results we seek that we have to switch off to something else blaming the drug Effexor for not working as it should.
This post is not intended to get anyone upset about their therapies or modalities, but as another post mentioned, you wouldn't see your OBGYN for mental health issues or let alone fill a prescription of Effexor XR from your dentist.
Yes, sometimes psychiatric docs aren't the most chatty but they are their to pinpoint your symptoms and discuss with you the options of treatment. The psychotherapist helps you with the feelings, experiences, and issues that brought you to initiate mental health therapy with a psychotropic drug.
Not only do I think that by increasing your dosage because you are not getting your issues resolved overnite is not such a wise idea, I also believe that jumping around on different medications can have implications, whether positive or negative, to your natural brain's chemistry.
As my psychiatrist said ' what is the point of putting you on a drug if it messes up your other things in life that are going well.'
I am baffled that many posts also have written how they take this and that and that and that too to combat side effects. That in itself is not a good sign.
If you start taking one thing only to end up taking five other things, I would seek a second opinion.
Posted by gare on May 23, 2002, at 7:40:26
In reply to Re: Effexor - Exercise - Better Experience, posted by johnlund on May 22, 2002, at 22:50:36
I don't believe it has an effect in the metabolism mechanism of the liver; however, you may want to get a copy of the pharmacological insert (see your pharmacist) and look under hepatic/liver abnormalities.
I would also recommend that you get a regular yearly physical that would include a blood chemistry panel that would provide you feedback on your liver functions (there are about three or four) and cholestrol.
I think there is a tendency for it to affect blood pressure.
The only thing I can think of is that if you were to decide to terminate taking Effexor/Effexor XR, then you will have to ween yourself a bit longer to avoid withdrawal symptoms and allow your brain chemistry to compensate for what Effexor/Effexor XR had been doing.
Other than that, a yearly phsyical will be great yearly and regular visits with your psychiatrist.
Posted by Allen F. on May 25, 2002, at 3:29:06
In reply to Hmm... watch out and about a good psychiatrist, posted by azurebay on May 22, 2002, at 18:17:50
The problem is that there are not enough PDoc's out there, and a "good" one is hard to find. I am also of the opionin that insurance companies, or some other organization, would rather a person take a pill than have to pay for therapy that can be very expensive.
Posted by katekite on May 25, 2002, at 10:14:57
In reply to Re: Hmm... watch out and about a good psychiatrist, posted by Allen F. on May 25, 2002, at 3:29:06
I should have been more cautious with pdocs.
A good pdoc will be completely sure of the diagnosis before prescribing anything. They will go slowly and add one medication at a time (unless someone is hospitalized and still a danger). They will be aware of withdrawal and not treat it as a new problem, but link it to the stopped medication. They will recommend exercise and therapy, strongly and repeatedly. They will look things up and will feel that all questions are important and need answers. They will not medicate things you don't ask them to medicate. They will follow-up. They will test for medical things when appropriate, and not just the first year. They will believe what you say and trust that you know what you need. They will reassess the diagnosis if the first couple of meds don't help.
Everyone preaches that trust is a good thing. I agree, if you've been properly diagnosed, it can be. But if your diagnosis is unclear, tentative etc, don't trust in the seemingly magic power of a doctor to make you 'feel better'. How can they make you feel better if they aren't sure what you have?
Don't take drugs without a well proven diagnosis unless you're suicidal or risking harming others. Don't agree to a diagnosis because you want a diagnosis, agree to a diagnosis because it fits completely what you are. Try not to let wanting to please anyone or depression or anything else interfere with rationally assessing a diagnosis to see if it fits you.
I'm allergic to trazodone or something in the coating, and nearly died about 6 years ago from taking my first pill of it. Since then I've taken lots of things with no problems. I'm all for drugs to treat serious problems. But pharmaceutical companies are advertising down our throats to treat everything we can...it does influence us. The positive experiences of people around us influence us. Seeing people achieving what we would like to influences us. Seeing people on this board trying drug after drug with no problems makes us think that everyone can. Not all of us will come away the same as we were before. A few will get lupus or myasthenia or Steven Johnson's and never be physically OK again.
Please be careful and take only what you absolutely feel you need to.
kate
Posted by supergirl on May 26, 2002, at 1:32:26
In reply to if I'd known then what I know now...., posted by katekite on May 25, 2002, at 10:14:57
Very good advice, Kate. Well said.
supergirl
Posted by Allen F. on May 26, 2002, at 16:33:37
In reply to if I'd known then what I know now...., posted by katekite on May 25, 2002, at 10:14:57
Very well said!
In todays world, with drugs advertised freely, even on television, it is easy to say you fit the problem and the drug will help you.
Ten to twenty minuites is a short time to diagnos, prescribe, and answer questions. Yet this is the common time frame of most doctor visits. And Doctors see many many people in a day, week, month, which makes it hard for them to fully remember your case and have adequate follow-up without your participation. Its your body and mind, you have to be in control of your care, which means you have to proactively ask questions, learn about the diagnosis and what your options are for treatment.
I wish I had taked a more active role years ago in my treatment versus just doing what the doctor suggested without really questioning it.
Allen
Posted by kpo2002 on May 26, 2002, at 17:30:08
In reply to if I'd known then what I know now...., posted by katekite on May 25, 2002, at 10:14:57
Yes, katekite, you have brought up a very good point. There is a new disease out there, and it goes by the name of Multiple Chemical Sensitivity, and we are the first generation of people who have been bombarded with chemicals since the day that we were born. Once you get it you have it for life. I discovered it with Ultram. I was allergic to it but forced to take it for pain relief. Two years after discontinuation I still have the allergies.
Posted by katekite on May 26, 2002, at 20:45:08
In reply to Re: if I'd known then what I know now...., posted by kpo2002 on May 26, 2002, at 17:30:08
how long were you on it before it became a problem?
I was misdiagnosed BP II. I took neurontin for about 5 weeks before developing paresthesia (a burning sensation in my legs). Since I hadn't just started the drug, no one recommended stopping it -- in fact, they recommended taking additional ones (depakote, lamictal, gabatril). It made it worse. 6 weeks later, legs still burning, I got fed up and stopped everything. 24 hrs later the problem was gone. However, now every time I take any kind of sedating drug the problem returns.
No one can say yes or no whether it was the drug. It may simply have been an underlying problem that was un-masked, like MS. I will always wonder.
And, it turns out, I have ADD only (and a history of major depression). My depression and anxiety are most likely related to the frustration of living with ADD undiagnosed for 30 years. Adderall or ritalin make my life completely different, much more normal. Had I been properly evaluated it could have been found 10 years ago, 6 years ago, 4 years ago, 2 years ago, 1 year ago (the times I switched psychiatrists). All of them missed it because none of them actually evaluated me, they only asked what I thought was wrong -- and I said I felt frustrated, depressed, scared of social situations..... As soon as I presented a problem they medicated it. Rather than trying to find a cause for any of it.
So misdiagnosis can lead to serious consequences.
Only since the words MS, lupus and myasthenia came to me as possibilities, have I looked at the risks of these drugs. I always had assumed risks would be allergy (you either die or are fine, you just don't take it again) or problems that would stop when the drug was stopped (lethargy, nausea, etc). But risks can involve sensitivites that cross over to other medications or to your own organs.... or as in multiple chemical sensitivities to anything containing methyl groups or whatever it is for each individual person who develops a sensitivity.
So hopefully someone will read this thread who was leaning towards just swallowing the pills although they aren't quite sure of their diagnosis: maybe they really should do that complete psychological workup someone once recommended.
kate
Posted by JonW on May 27, 2002, at 7:53:36
In reply to if I'd known then what I know now...., posted by katekite on May 25, 2002, at 10:14:57
> Don't take drugs without a well proven diagnosis unless you're suicidal or risking harming others. Don't agree to a diagnosis because you want a diagnosis, agree to a diagnosis because it fits completely what you are. Try not to let wanting to please anyone or depression or anything else interfere with rationally assessing a diagnosis to see if it fits you.
Hi kate,
I agree and couldn't have said it better myself! I know that when I do research on the internet the symptoms I report to my doctor are sometimes colored by that. I go out of my way to try to be objective as possible, and remind my doctors that I've been looking up things on my own again. I think we all want to be diagnosed so badly because it means we're that much closer to a cure ("so that's why I'm still not better..."), or at the very least it makes us feel like we belong.
Jon
Posted by zach on May 27, 2002, at 11:49:20
In reply to Re: 4 Wks off Effexor-/joint pain » Janie, posted by Lynn V on March 17, 2001, at 22:51:46
Wow! Well... I've been on Effexor XR for nearly one year. It has helped significantly decrease the level as well as the frequency of my depressive episodes. I am concerned (very much so) about the joing pains. From the beginning I have noticed a tightening of the jaw muscles. I had to get a mouth guard for when I sleep. I also wake up most mornings with sore muscles in my forearms, which I presume is from clenching my hands. I did not have either of these problems before one year ago. Recently, I was diagnosed with tendonitis of the wrists as well as arthritis of the knees. I take aspirin, and it helps but does not cure. I am 27 years old, and a professional musician. I also am a competing martial arts practitioner. If I knew for certain that there was a corrolation between joint pain and Effexor XR I would have to rethink my decision to take it. I started Effexor as a response to the sexual side-effects of Celexa. By the way, I also have been diagnosed with prostatitis. It has also crossed my mind that Bactrim could be causing or agrivating joint pains. I can't help wondering what the relationship between the medications and the physical ailments is. I did bloodwork to test for Reiter's syndrome. My HLAB-27 was positive. Remember, I am only 27, and in excellent shape. I stretch daily before and usually after I excercise. If anyone has any information for me please email me at zachburd@yahoo.com. This is my personal spam-free email address. Please respect this, and keep me off all lists. Thank you. -Zach
Posted by katekite on May 27, 2002, at 11:49:26
In reply to Re: if I'd known then what I know now.... » katekite, posted by JonW on May 27, 2002, at 7:53:36
Hi Jon,
I wanted to have a diagnosis. I wanted to understand why depression didn't explain how hard life was and had always been. Post diagnosis there was infinite support available on the net. I told my parents and they stopped asking, finally, when was I going to get a job. They started asking if I was happy. All of that seemed so right at the time even though, for me, it was the wrong diagnosis.
I probably would still be on mood stabilizers if not for having to switch psychiatrists because the one I liked (because he was nice and friendly and sweet and returned my calls immediately) stopped private practice. The new one said he didn't know if he liked my diagnosis. By this point I was physically ill and he couldn't diagnose anything with someone physically ill. Eventually went off mood stabilizers and felt more normal. Stayed off everything for 3 months. Realized I had been actually worse on mood stabilizers than with nothing. Then started the hunt for the right diagnosis.
This time did lots of tests with me OFF meds. Correct diagnosis eventually resulted.
Advice: if you don't really understand your diagnoses do three things. One, think back to what you were like as a kid, then research what all these disorders look like in kids (include everything, aspergers and autism and learning disabilities, bipolar and personality disorders, separation anxiety, ODD, etc). What was your personality most like?
Secondly, talk it over with a doc, and aim to reduce your meds to the minimum that allows you to function and not be depressed or otherwise irrational, then take the MMPI and any other suitable tests to make sure nothing is being missed. Have a good friend evaluate you on a bunch of internet quizzes: we see ourselves differently than others.
Thirdly, get more than a normal medical workup: thyroid and regular bloodwork is the minimum, but early Cushing's, early Addison's, CFS, migraines (which don't even have to be headaches), etc could all contribute to mental problems. Why not find out? Do it all at least once in your life. Get an EEG. Get an MRI. If you can convince a doctor to do it it is most likely a good test for you. Don't get false hopes up, just decide to rule out everything physical.
Don't do what I did: don't get a diagnosis because you need one. Get a diagnosis (or two) that explains you completely.
kate
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