![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 97 to 121 of 350. Go back in thread:
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 8, 2002, at 0:43:10
In reply to Re: Any suggestions of getting off of Zoloft » Chica, posted by Cam W. on February 28, 2002, at 20:18:58
Cam,
What is your take on long term effects of ADs? Is there damage or dying off of receptors during reuptake since more serotonin/NE is available? If so, is this a permanent situation? I think of how long term cocaine or meth use can damage the dopamine system irrevocably and contribute to Parkinson's. It seems like so many of us here have tried to wean off SSRI's and ended up crawling back. I was on Zoloft for 6 years consistently, 10 years total, so you'd think my HPA axis would have been well set. I tried going off 4 times during the last 4 years of that 10 year period, but each time after 6 months cried uncle. I'm now on Remeron and lithium and doing well, but am concerned that having begun medication, I'm now forever in their grip. I realize the possibility that I need these chemicals, but wonder if I need them all the more having once begun them. Looking forward to your erudite elucidations. - BarbaraCmatt - Several studies have shown that if an antidepressant is not taken for at least six months "after response" there is a great risk (>80%) of relapse. It usually takes 1 or 2 months to reach full response with SSRIs.
>
> It takes time for the body's stress system (HPA axis), as well as other related systems that were altered and resulted in the depressive symptoms, to recover and "normalize" from a depression. You have to make sure that the realigned neurochemical pathways are strong enough to stay that way. The body has a good memory, and if you don't retrain the circuitry for a long enough period, the neuronal pathways will again return to the depressed configuration.
>
> Have patience; you did not become depressed overnight. I always recommend that people keeping taking an antidepressant for at least a year. This greatly decreases the risk of a relapse of the depression from occuring.
>
> I hope that this is of some help. - Cam
Posted by Cam W. on March 9, 2002, at 3:47:58
In reply to Receptors and ADs » Cam W., posted by BarbaraCat on March 8, 2002, at 0:43:10
Barbara - Tricyclic antidepressants have been around since the 1950s. There are epidemiological studies that include data on TCA use. There has been no evidence of long-lasting effects from taking antidepressants (except in some extreme cases). Leaving the depression untreated would have resulted in a much higher mortality rate.
Also, the "Prozac Babies" are now in their 20's. These were the first batch of babies who were conceived while the mother was taking Prozac or took Prozac while pregnant. Many of the offspring were followed and they have not turned out any weirder than any other American =^)
The problem may be in the kindling process that seems to be seen in major depression. The theory is that with each subsequent depressive episode, the next comes sooner, lasts longer, and is worse symptomatically. In other words, in at least some people, it seems that it is a depressive episode that does the damage to the neurocircuitry. Using antidepressants potentially interupts kindling, which would (hopefully) result in fewer lifetime episodes of depression.
I believe that the benefits obtained from taking antidepressants, when truly needed, far, far outweigh any short-term or long-term problem from the antidepressant itself.
Just my opinion - Cam
Posted by IsoM on March 9, 2002, at 14:23:19
In reply to Receptors and ADs » Cam W., posted by BarbaraCat on March 8, 2002, at 0:43:10
Barbara, I'm just jumping in with an observation about me. Whether it would apply to anyone else, I have no idea & won't even hazard a guess.
I've been on ADs for +15 years now. I originally went on imipramine to see if it would help my migraines/tension headaches (I used to get both). There was no improvement with the headaches but there was a noticable improvement with my mood. I would never have said I was seriously depressed then but did feel unhappy & irritable fairly often.
Much of how I felt was due to the environment & circumstances I was in - 3 small children, an alcoholic, self-centred husband, & living in a small prairie village. I hated the climate (unbearably hot in the short summer & unbearably cold in the long winter). I was also very lonely. The people were bigoted, small-minded people who considered me an oddity because I loved science & wasn't into their "social bees".
Anyway, TCAs made life much more bearable & allowed me to be happy with my children & my own interests. When I moved back to my original home, I wanted to go off my ADs. Didn't seem able to. Over the last 7 years, I've tried going it alone 3 times & each time, conceded defeat. My thoughts/feelings were no longer simply moody & irritable without them but black, bleak, & a smoldering rage instead of just irritation. Maybe I had previously learned to control myself better without ADs but became dependent on them to keep me even-keeled? Who knows for sure? Without ADs, I hate the personality that emerges. Without them, I have no will or control to fight my feelings.
I found that stopping Luvox was horrible but stopping Paxil was even worse. The discontinuation/withdrawal symptoms never went away, even after a year & now taking Celexa which was working very well. Brain zaps, vertigo, & spacey feeelings continued so I ended up going back on Paxil (10 mg only) along with my Celexa. The symptoms didn't clear completely but did become managable. But I still wanted off the Paxil. I hated being dependent on a drug that would make you feel that horrible from even being late with the dose.
I now take adrafinil (Olmifon) along with my Celexa. Provigil is similar to Olmifon. It's supposed to increase over-all brain metabolism & I thought I'd see if I could do without Paxil & give it one more try. When I stopped the Paxil, I didn't even notice. No return of symptoms - nothing! I attribute it to the adrafinil. Nothing else is different. Nothing else explains it.
Anyway, that's my experience. I would love to see if Provigil prescribed for those wishing to discontinue their SSRIs would relieve their symptoms like it did for me. Perhaps as Provigil is prescribed more in the future, we'll read some study about it. I've noticed from various postings here in PB that people who are bipolar don't seem to react good to Provigil, so it's obviously not the answer for everyone.
Posted by Ritch on March 9, 2002, at 17:24:58
In reply to Re: Receptors and ADs (rather long) » BarbaraCat, posted by IsoM on March 9, 2002, at 14:23:19
> I now take adrafinil (Olmifon) along with my Celexa. Provigil is similar to Olmifon. It's supposed to increase over-all brain metabolism & I thought I'd see if I could do without Paxil & give it one more try. When I stopped the Paxil, I didn't even notice. No return of symptoms - nothing! I attribute it to the adrafinil. Nothing else is different. Nothing else explains it.
>
> Anyway, that's my experience. I would love to see if Provigil prescribed for those wishing to discontinue their SSRIs would relieve their symptoms like it did for me. Perhaps as Provigil is prescribed more in the future, we'll read some study about it. I've noticed from various postings here in PB that people who are bipolar don't seem to react good to Provigil, so it's obviously not the answer for everyone.
Hi IsoM,Haven't talked to you in a while. You are onto something for sure. Well... I am off Wellbutrin after a dysphoric/insomnia/hostility episode. So, my meds are a combo of (all very low dose) Neurontin+Dexedrine Celexa+Klonopin and it is working quite well. This pstim has a noticeable *calming* effect that I find very striking. Adderall had a "wavy", "buzzy" quality about it that was very noticeable during the day with unwanted panic-like anxiety. I am sleeping better and the mild ultradian (during the day) cycling has stopped. I find that it controls my impulsiveness better than Adderall did (although I don't feel as focused). But, to get to your point about using a pstim to help "cover" an SSRI withdrawal-I think it might be possible-maybe if the person taking the SSRI is taking it primarily for depression (not anxiety disorders). As far as bipolar folks having trouble with it - I am not so sure. I have got mixed bipolar and ADHD and so far isn't causing any trouble.
Mitch
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 9, 2002, at 18:15:55
In reply to Re: Receptors and ADs (rather long) » BarbaraCat, posted by IsoM on March 9, 2002, at 14:23:19
Iso,
Your prairie days sound ghastly. Glad you're out of there. I can relate to what you said about the bleak, dark and violent place you go into without the meds. Before I started ADs lo these many years ago I was depressed certainly, but it didn't have the haunted spooky crazy quality it now has when I try to stop. BTW, is Adrafinal considered a pstim? I thought it was more in the norepineprine vs. dopamine camp. At any rate, if it worked that well in reducing the paxil withdrawal blues, then it's a real exciting find. The zaps and whooshes have been said to be serotonin-related. It makes me wonder if the NE is acting as a neuro protectant somehow, or perhaps NE is what you best respond to?I recently gave Adrafinal a try, hoping to add a little zip to a recent vegetative depression. Unfortunately, it caused a great deal of the 'inner tension' side effect and started switching me into an agitated depression with alot of crying and wringing of hands. I guess Bipolar II's really shouldn't go there, but I do so wish for something that would give me that nice focussed calm motivated feeling (gee, kinda like my meth days, in fact). I'm currently on remeron, lithium, klonopin and ambien. I'm not depressed, but I'm getting slow and porky. Any ideas out there would be appreciated. - Barbara
Posted by IsoM on March 9, 2002, at 19:35:55
In reply to Re: Receptors and ADs » IsoM, posted by BarbaraCat on March 9, 2002, at 18:15:55
Barbara, you'll have to excuse me but has anyone ever asked about getting your TSH level checked?
I'm a little weird about exercise. I hate doing something if it's for "exercising & toning" up. *Boring* as hell for me! But if I HAVE to work & move physically, I love it. Yet, there has to be a need or I'll vegetate & just use my mind - which is why I chose a physically challenging job. I'm not lazy. Once started, I go like the wind but I seem to need a push first. Most things are like that for me though.
Anyway, with growing older, I think we start slowing down, especially with our sedentary life-style in the west. Man will always take the easier course if given a chance. The slower we get, the harder it is to get going again. Is there any way you can start off slowly & increase your activity level? There's all sorts of strategies that can be developed to get us active again & keep us that way.
On the days I don't work, I need to jump-start my engine with some rousing, bouncing cheerful music. Just the thought of having to put it on makes me think 'ewwyyuu!' but once it starts, my mood & energy go right up. I would've been great as one of Pavlov's dogs - first time I heard the bell, I'd not only start salivating but would probably eat the other dogs too. My moods are so very easily influenced (not my logical side but my emotional side).
If meth made you feel calm & focused (like it did me too), can't you get a prescription for another kind of stim like Dexedrine? You're one of the reasons that I think adrafinil doesn't work that well for most bipolars. I'm so curious of how it affects the brains of bipolars. I'd love to see some PET scans of bipolar brains with adrafinil.
Posted by IsoM on March 9, 2002, at 19:45:54
In reply to Re: SSRI's and psychostimulants... » IsoM, posted by Ritch on March 9, 2002, at 17:24:58
Mitch, I think it's more than pstims that cover the SSRI withdrawal. I had been using Dexedrine previously but it made no difference to my brain zaps & other symptoms. Sometimes, I even think it made it a little worse or at least, more noticable.
I can't explain how but the effects of adrafinil for me was as if my brain was 'fogged up' or my head was full of cotton stuffing & the adrafinil cleared it up. It not only helps me stay awake during the day (from the narcolepsy) but gives me an over-all clearer feeling. My mind feels swept clean of all the cobwebs cluttering it before. Sadly, it doesn't really help me fall asleep better at night - I was hoping it would. So I still rely on Gravol a hour or so before I want to go to bed. Once asleep, I do sleep pretty good.
My 79 year old Mom loves adrafinil but when she's tried any AD in the past, she felt horrible & wouldn't take them. I'm actually glad she didn't. She tells me she feels happier, more alert & bright too.
I wasn't thinking that all stims caused problems with bipolars, just adrafinil/modafinil. You didn't try them or did you?
Posted by Ritch on March 9, 2002, at 22:53:25
In reply to Re: SSRI's and psychostimulants... » Ritch, posted by IsoM on March 9, 2002, at 19:45:54
> Mitch, I think it's more than pstims that cover the SSRI withdrawal. I had been using Dexedrine previously but it made no difference to my brain zaps & other symptoms. Sometimes, I even think it made it a little worse or at least, more noticable.
>
> I can't explain how but the effects of adrafinil for me was as if my brain was 'fogged up' or my head was full of cotton stuffing & the adrafinil cleared it up. It not only helps me stay awake during the day (from the narcolepsy) but gives me an over-all clearer feeling. My mind feels swept clean of all the cobwebs cluttering it before. Sadly, it doesn't really help me fall asleep better at night - I was hoping it would. So I still rely on Gravol a hour or so before I want to go to bed. Once asleep, I do sleep pretty good.
>
> My 79 year old Mom loves adrafinil but when she's tried any AD in the past, she felt horrible & wouldn't take them. I'm actually glad she didn't. She tells me she feels happier, more alert & bright too.
>
> I wasn't thinking that all stims caused problems with bipolars, just adrafinil/modafinil. You didn't try them or did you?IsoM,
I actually was intending to try Provigil when I saw my pdoc last time. But the half-life issue and insomnia thing got brought up. I had to stop Wellbutrin due to dysphoric hypomania and insomnia. If *anything* causes sleep disturbance for me it WILL aggravate mood disturbances. Over 25 years I can see that it is *THE* link. Sleep good/mood good.
Anyhow, I brought up Provigil and it immediately flipped to "can you afford it?", and I said "it doesn't matter to me-whatever works". Well, I got written a script for dexedrine right off the bat and after my insurance paid the copay I had to fork over .... $2 bucks. SmithKline still makes the stuff-amazing-no incognito 3rd world pharmaceuticals.
Mitch
Posted by IsoM on March 10, 2002, at 1:48:26
In reply to Re: SSRI's and psychostimulants... » IsoM, posted by Ritch on March 9, 2002, at 22:53:25
Yeah, Mitch, I find it strange that Dexedrine can't be bought from overseas too. Maybe there's too much controversy on how pure it may be or maybe that it's cheap enough here, why bother making it elsewhere?
I'm going to increase my adrafinil to 3 pills a day from the 2 I take. I suspect the initial euphoria at feeling 'normal' has had time to wear off & now I'm feeling the true effects of it alone without the benefits of the added hormone/neurotransmitter boost from being so enthralled with something so wonderful.
Kind of like that intial 'falling in love' high that's due to a true chemical reaction in our brain.
"The most well-known love-related chemical is phenylethylamine, or PEA, a naturally occurring trace amine, an organic molecule containing nitrogen, that is found in the brain. PEA is an amphetamine that is constantly produced by the body and, in elevated concentrations, can cause similar stimulation to that caused by artificially-produced amphetamine drugs. This natural "upper" contributes to the on-top-of-the-world feeling that attraction can bring. It also gives you the energy to stay awake and focused longer, making it possible to talk to your new love all night long. Attraction is not the only way to get a high from PEA. The brain also releases the stimulant during high-stress activities like bungee jumping and skydiving or, as some scientists believe, when eating chocolate.
The release of PEA sets off a chemical chain-reaction in the brain. The primary effect of PEA is the stimulated release of the neuro-transmitter dopamine, a "feel-good" chemical."
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 10, 2002, at 2:15:25
In reply to Re: Feeling Slow (and porky) » BarbaraCat, posted by IsoM on March 9, 2002, at 19:35:55
Actually, I am hypothyroid and have been on thyroid for years (both T4 and T3). I also raised it when I recently went on lithium. My TSH levels look good, so I don't think that's it. Also, when I'm not depressed, exercise is my drug of choice. I've been a semi-professional dancer, yoga, etc., and although I don't get enough of it, I do exercise. It's been since taking Remeron and lithium that I'm porking out. I find myself craving stupid fatty substances and lots of them. Also, like you said, I'm getting older and am no longer the mere slip of a girl I used to be. I'm eating too darn much and therefore the dexedrine idea appeals.
Unfortunately, I 'fessed to my pdoc that I had a bit of a meth jones in my younger years and he is very loath to prescribe amphetamines. I also wonder if a stimulant is the best thing for me given my history with panic disorder and anxiety. Well, I need more exercise and that's that. I may need to cattle prod myself into it and whip myself into a frenzy given all I'm wanting to eat, but it would be just about the best thing I could do for myself. - Barbara
Posted by Zo on March 10, 2002, at 21:37:50
In reply to Re: Feeling Slow (and porky) » IsoM, posted by BarbaraCat on March 10, 2002, at 2:15:25
I don't know if this will make you feel better or worse, but Dexedrine by itself isn't much of an appetite suppressant.
I've been on it since '98. No diff.Still waddling around with some of the infamous Zyprexa-50 from a year ago---but not as much.
Infuriated I can't tolerate Topamax, my v. experienced pdoc said it is THE weight loss drug.
Zo
Posted by IsoM on March 10, 2002, at 22:14:46
In reply to Re: Feeling Slow (and porky) » IsoM, posted by BarbaraCat on March 10, 2002, at 2:15:25
Barbara, how good is your self-control? This really works but you really haveve to have good self-control for it to work. I really understand this thing about "craving stupid fatty substances and lots of them". It can almost be like an addiction in itself. But if you can empty your house of fatty foods for a month, your taste buds will change & the cravings will go. If you fall back into eating fatty foods, the cravings jump right back.
I don't know how hard this is for you to do. If you have to feed a household & they like fatty foods, it's tough. But if you're alone or in charge of the food, empty your fridge & cupboards of butter, margarine, crackers, cookies, sausages, bacon, etc. You get the idea. If you can go a month without eating fatty foods, the cravings go right down. You have to be creative in coming up with ideas of making foods good tasting & moist still. After the first week, you'll want fatty foods so bad you'll be ready to eat a pound of butter straight, but resist the urge to indulge yourself.
Because we're older, not young slips any more, you won't see the extra weight melt off like ads tell you, but you will start to lose weight. Most of the extra calories we consume comes from fats. As long as you don't go overboard on sugary foods, you should notice a difference after a month & more further down the road.
For me, as long as I avoid fatty foods & keep active, I can stay slim. If I get careless in either area, I'll gain. I never did when young,m but I can now & don't want to look like my dear Mom. As she says, an apple on two toothpicks. :-)
I hope you don't consider this presumptous, but keeping fats to a minimum does work. I'd add fatty acid supplements though.
Posted by Seamus2 on March 10, 2002, at 23:09:01
In reply to Re: Diet Change » BarbaraCat, posted by IsoM on March 10, 2002, at 22:14:46
Count me among those w/ "fatty cravings".
I could do better, but I'm pretty good already! My house doesn't have a WHOLE lot of fat, but if I pared it to a minimum I'd still be left with butter and mayonnaise.
Right alongside nicotine and caffeine.
Remember the FDA's "Food Pyramid"? Probably not, since you are in Canada... Anyway, that's my "Sustenance Tetrad" devoid of AD's since I got my testosterone issue staightened out.
Pick two, any two? Mayonnaise and cigarettes.
We all have our sins....
Posted by IsoM on March 10, 2002, at 23:19:06
In reply to One word: mayonnaise! » IsoM, posted by Seamus2 on March 10, 2002, at 23:09:01
Ah, Seamus, it's good to know how to cook well AND be inventive. I make my own fake mayo & believe me, it's taste great! I use lemon juice, some cayenne, & garlic to spice it up. I've gotten to the point where I really prefer the taste of my own creations. Without the fat & sugar of ready-made foods, the other flavours come through. I make lots of quick international style foods, Oriental & Indian particularly.
I never miss the butter in sandwiches & when I toast my bread (again home-made, high in protein) & eat it for breakfast, I dip it unbuttered into applesauce or stewed fruit.
Oh yes, I remember the food pyramid. It was used in Canada for many years. My absolute must is tea, hot, sweet & milky. Good thing the tea is at least considered healthy now, hey? :-)
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 11, 2002, at 13:44:35
In reply to Re: Diet Change » BarbaraCat, posted by IsoM on March 10, 2002, at 22:14:46
Hmmm, I smell a cookbook in the works here... That non-fat idea would be an interesting trial. I eat very healthy - really, I do! No junk food, fast food, snacks or anything obvious in the poundage department. No red meat, love Thai, Indian. Oh, but butter! cream! oil! CARBS!! In fact, I'd have to say that the carbs are what do me in. I have all the Zone and spinoff cookbooks. I believe it's time to dust them off and start putting them into action.
Your comment about your Mom and the apple was pretty funny. It's amazing how we turn into our parents and how those things we were exposed to early on in life are there for life. Well, I'm off for my daily walk in a lovely cold and rainy Northwest morning. - Barbara
Posted by IsoM on March 11, 2002, at 14:02:17
In reply to Re: Diet Change » IsoM, posted by BarbaraCat on March 11, 2002, at 13:44:35
Nothing exciting to read, but I live in the Northwest too & it's *too* wet, windy, & cold for me to go outside. You're braver than I am. The last two days have felt so blah, especially as I'm convinced spring should be here. My flowers seem to think so with what's blooming now. I'm going to spend the free time I have today sorting my seed packs & starting some.
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 11, 2002, at 16:57:07
In reply to Going For A Walk??? Don't You Mean Swim? » BarbaraCat, posted by IsoM on March 11, 2002, at 14:02:17
I must confess I did not go out for planned walk. Instead I decided to take a nap. This weather is extreme and I rather like it, but all my newly planted perennials are floating away. I'm on disability now so have the luxury of a nap in the afternoons when I need one. Of course, the decrease in money is it's own stressor, but nothing like the high-tech biz where I got to the point of just sitting in my cube and either freaking our or crying. Now I'm signed up with Vocational Rehab to try to get retraining. Going from a Systems Analyst to an office clerk is not something I'm amenable to, shall we say, so we'll see. At any rate, I'm not ready yet for back to work, so I'll just enjoy this time off while I can and get cracking on those dust-laden exercise tapes. You say you have a physically challenging job. Can I ask what? - B.
> Nothing exciting to read, but I live in the Northwest too & it's *too* wet, windy, & cold for me to go outside. You're braver than I am. The last two days have felt so blah, especially as I'm convinced spring should be here. My flowers seem to think so with what's blooming now. I'm going to spend the free time I have today sorting my seed packs & starting some.
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 11, 2002, at 17:04:31
In reply to Re: Feeling Slow (and porky) » BarbaraCat, posted by Zo on March 10, 2002, at 21:37:50
Why can't you tolerate it? I did some reading up on it and it mentioned the glaucoma thing. Was that your problem? I thought that dexedrine was the infamous diet drug back in the 60's, but I believe it eventually causes rebound eating. But no matter, my pdoc won't bite anyway. I'll ask him about Topomax (that name suggests a roly-poly clown).
> I don't know if this will make you feel better or worse, but Dexedrine by itself isn't much of an appetite suppressant.
> I've been on it since '98. No diff.
>
> Still waddling around with some of the infamous Zyprexa-50 from a year ago---but not as much.
>
> Infuriated I can't tolerate Topamax, my v. experienced pdoc said it is THE weight loss drug.
>
> Zo
Posted by IsoM on March 11, 2002, at 18:09:33
In reply to Re: Going For A Walk??? Don't You Mean Swim? » IsoM, posted by BarbaraCat on March 11, 2002, at 16:57:07
Sometimes I'm ashamed to admit what I work at considering my IQ & my knowledge base, but...
I work at a large super store looking after the home & garden section. Strangely, they lump together paints & paint-thinners along with automotive supplies with it. I tell people if the weeds in their garden get the better of them, they can always pour engine oil or paint-thinner on it. There's a lot of leg work involved as the area covered is huge so I walk super-fast (people tend to run to keep up with me). There's a fair amount of heavy lifting at times & lots of moving things about. It's a pretty high activity job, perhaps not very taxing for a young, fit guy but for me, it's just right. Everyone refers to me as the flower lady or plant lady, & people will come back specifically to the store to ask about gardening questions. I've got 30 years of gardening knowledge. I figured if I'm going to be working in auto & hardware, I ought to know something about it too so have read up lots & asked questions so I'd be helpful when people ask.
One time I saw an older man scrutinising the shelves & asked if he needed help. He said it was the first time ever in this store that someone offered him help. I hate to see people look forever for something that the store doesn't carry & will often ask right away. It's really not much of a job but I'm determined to take pride in what I do & do the best that can be done. I have received lots of grateful comments from others. And I joke with the customers a lot. I can 'read' which ones can be joked with & which can't be.
One older couple came to me saying they couldn't find mouse-traps so I told them where they were. They came back to say they still couldn't see them so I lept to my feet saying "Super Judy to the rescue" making them laugh. Or sometimes when someone comes up to me & asked if I work there, I'll jokingly cover my label on my shirt with my hand saying "no, no! I know nothing. I'm from Barcelona" and then help them. Enough people have a dreary time shopping - it brightens my day & theirs.
I especially love the spring & summer as I work completely outside with the plants, looking after them, advising people about gardens & selling them. I'm drenched in sweat at the end of the workday (I hate the sticky feel of sweat though - yuckk!) so I know I've worked hard. I'm building quite a reputation around our town about someone who really knows her plants & am hoping I can work on that reputation in the future to start my own small specialised plant business.
Posted by Helen on March 11, 2002, at 22:07:22
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft, posted by julielynne on June 19, 2001, at 9:34:21
Question:
Can I effectively titrate from 150 mg. to 100 mg. of Zoloft a day?
Almost two weeks ago I lowered my Zoloft from 150 mg. to 100 mg. I have become increasingly depressed. This has happened twice in the past and I have always raised the dosage. This time, I would like to succeed.
What I would like to know is, is it worth staying the course for a while longer at 100 mg.? Will my mood eventually get better? I plan to stay at 100 mg. for a period of time after that. I am also on 30 mg. of Remeron a night and 0.5 Klonopin for sleep (they work).
Also, has anyone found anything to stave off appetite cravings? In my case, the Remeron makes me crave carborhydrates, and I am constantly vigilant (though not that successful) about what I eat.
Also, does anyone relate to the following:
I have a hidden disease that no one can see. I can often mask it. I can fool people. Unfortunately, I can not fool myself.
I am going through the motions. I can relate to this dialogue in a film: The first character asks her friend, “What makes you happy?” The second character replies, “I don’t know, I’m not.” This is how I feel right now.
On a scale of 1-10, I am about a 1. I force myself to function and appear normal. My breathing is shallow, I am in slow motion, I don’t know what to do with myself. I wish I was an alcoholic and could drown myself in liquor. I wish I were a drug addict and could get a fix. In the meantime, I struggle not to eat too much, and I just want to go to bed. I do not look forward to anything.
This is ironic, because I love my husband and son, and I have a good life. I don’t have to go to a job every day. I can do what I want, and I do nothing. I do not know why I am alive, or what contribution I am making.
My main adjectives right now are:Too much effort
Apathetic
Slow
Dull
Achy
Thick-headed
No joy
Heavy
Tired
Sad
Depressed
Breathing in, breathing out
Going through the motions
Faking people out
Tired of being on medication for this
Want to feel better
Want to feel happy
Want to experience joy
Life is a flat line; the bell curve without the bell
Posted by IsoM on March 11, 2002, at 22:31:38
In reply to Re: withdrawal symptoms coming off zoloft, posted by Helen on March 11, 2002, at 22:07:22
Helen, I'm not a good one to advise you. I find the more I learn, the more I realise how little I know. I think for a while that I'm pretty knowledgable about the mind & depression, relatively speaking, then something extra is thrown in & I have no answer for it.
My take on it: I feel the dopamine connection is too overlooked. So many people seem to have faulty dopamine receptors/production/blah, blah... Why is our society so lacking in this area. I don't even know the right words to use as I don't understand just what is wrong. All I know is dopamine is associated with energy, purpose, contentment, pleasure, happiness, all the opposite of what so many people feel today. We have a society filled with apathetic & indifferent people who don't like feeling this way. So we seek whatever it is that will give us that boost, temporary as it is.
Excuse my rant. I think the connection with this neurotransmitter is too over looked. Perhaps you should explore the possiblity of a medication that will enhance that area instead.
Posted by IsoM on March 12, 2002, at 1:26:51
In reply to Re: Feeling Slow (and porky) » Zo, posted by BarbaraCat on March 11, 2002, at 17:04:31
Barbara, don't feel so bad you went back to bed & didn't go for a walk. We can know what might be best for us, but it can be so difficult to work up enthusiasm for it by yourself, especially when the day's grey & your poor, old body aches.
It's hard to let go of that image of the young slip of a girl who used to look back in the mirror at us. I'm not fat by any means, but I used to have a 23" waist, it's more like 27" now. No, I'm not complaining but I was just a slip too, plus I really DO have small bones - my wedding ring was only a 4 1/2 & most people can circle my wrist with their thumb & forefinger.
It's one thing to get moving so your joints & muscles warm up & the pain almost leaves, but an hour or so after you stop, the pain comes back. I stay warm during the day if I'm active, but at night, I strangely get cold. In winter (& I mean the Pacific Northwest winter - not bad at all), I go to bed with flannel jammies, an undershirt, wool socks on (it keeps my feet from paining during the night) all under a down comforter in a heated water bed. It helps ease the pain to a bearable level & I can leave the window open a little for fresh air.
It sucks to grow old - everybody throughout history has hated it, but now our society doesn't honour age like it did in most cultures before. Even in Japan & China, cultures that used to revere their elders, it's fast disappearing. At least before, we could look forward to be honoured & our wisdom sought after.
Just a thought on pain & your fibromyalgia. I found that the more I used painkillers, the less my body was able to make its own. Nothing to do with dependence or addiction/tolerance developing, just with external painkillers, the ability of my body to produce my own went way down. I spent some painful weeks doing without. Now I'll only use them when I can't sleep for pain or if it gets too, too much. My pain tolerance has either improved or my body has adjusted. My Mom found the same thing. But maybe our similar body make-up accounts for this, rather than it being true for most people.
Posted by Lorraine on March 12, 2002, at 9:53:16
In reply to Re: Feeling Slow (and porky) » IsoM, posted by BarbaraCat on March 10, 2002, at 2:15:25
Barbara: What worked for me was low carb (then you don't have to worry about your fatty cravings). I lost 55 pounds low carb. Also, I cut back on my exercise vigorousness (switched to pilates and yoga).
Lorraine
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 12, 2002, at 12:00:15
In reply to Re: No Brainer Job » BarbaraCat, posted by IsoM on March 11, 2002, at 18:09:33
Oh, that sounds like so much fun! I compare your caring attitute and getting a good workout with sitting in a dreary cube all day running around to meetings and dealing with prima donna politic mongers and it's a no brainer who has the better job. - B.
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 12, 2002, at 12:09:58
In reply to Re: Feeling Slow (and porky) » BarbaraCat, posted by Lorraine on March 12, 2002, at 9:53:16
Did you work with any specific low carb diet? There are so many out there, some that are low fat, some that allow fat (Schwartzbein Diet). I'm also about to start another exercise (using VHSs), Oxycise, which uses a kind of deep breathing to burn fat. Like yoga, but more calisthenic. I've done some Pilates and will get back to it using my DVDs. One of the big problems for me is that I live in a little village in the middle of nowhere and there isn't much in the way of exercise classes. I'm looking forward to Spring when I can get outside and walk and rev up the metabolism. Also, a big dream is to get my bod in shape and then offer some classes to others around here. Lord knows, we all need it. - B.
> Barbara: What worked for me was low carb (then you don't have to worry about your fatty cravings). I lost 55 pounds low carb. Also, I cut back on my exercise vigorousness (switched to pilates and yoga).
>
> Lorraine
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