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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by JANNBEAU on December 19, 2001, at 14:32:05
In reply to Re: Effexor an opiate? Probably not. » JANNBEAU, posted by Elizabeth on December 13, 2001, at 20:06:59
Hey, Elizabeth! Thanks for your third (?) posting. It was fun to read. Thought you'd disappeared. Instead, I find that I don't really know how to find specific responses to my postings.--Thread is also getting long--unwieldy--sstart a new one?
--I think it's easy to misinterpret stuff over the net---
Thanks for reminding me of the difficulties of communicating without visual and aural cues! Again, sorry to put you in such a position! : )
Seems you know far more about this subject than I. Though I've had many courses in pharmacokinetics/toxicokinetics, etc., I don't use most of it anymore. I'm still "cocky" sometimes, however. You've set me straight!!
I found in clinical drug research that most is a farce, driven entirely by the profit motive and by drug companies and researchers who seek to obey the letter of the law but not the spirit of said regulations. I, too, then, am skeptical. I try to educate myself, whence some of my misinformation! (All the rest of you out there, disregard my comments and listen to E-Beth!)
--I actually enjoyed your second posting.
I enjoyed yours, too. That's why I'm back!
>
--My response to you also responded to his comments in greater depth---We can forget that posting, I think!
>
--Anyway, credentials don't mean much to me (especially since they're generally unproven on this forum
Well said!--I think our approach differs greatly from that of the Middle Ages,
Of course!
>although some attitudes expressed by a lot of people (including medical and even scientific professionals) bear a disturbing resemblance to aspects of the Medieval world-view.
>
Well, true. We've made progress. We have the "scientific method;" we have great potential to distribute our information; we know volumes more about physiology and psychophysiology than the Medievalists knew, just as we have a much better understanding of the psychopathology than we knew even fifty years ago. Have you ever seen the movie "The Snake Pit" or read about "Bedlam", the famous London institution? That's what I mean!
Bedlam is, by the way, a shortened form of the name for "Bethlehem" Asylum--interesting, yes? Ironic, perhaps?>
-- The trouble with the PI is the reverse: it includes every reported "side effect," even some which probably don't have anything to do with the drug. This can scare patients, to say the least, even making them unwilling to try the drug. It's misleading because most of these "side effects" are rare (especially the most serious ones), and *nobody* gets all or even most of them. I think that showing these lengthy lists to patients can do more harm than good. Unfortunately, the "patient information sheets" that pharmacies often keep are condescendingly lacking in real information.All true, especially the lack of balance between the "information for the patient" and the PI. However, I think that, if we are an educated patient, we should be able to take the information from the PI and distill it, using what pertains to ourselves and discarding extraneous information. However, we DO need to know the PURPOSE of the PI, which is mainly to fulfil the requirements of the Code of Federal Regulations and other laws governing drug research, manufacture, and distribution, yes? The physician should make this very clear to the patient. A patient should know his/her ability to digest and use the information. It also helps to know one's pharmacist well; these folks can be really helpful with respect to side effects and drug interactions. I, of course, have a PDR and another huge tome that gives the percentage of the effects in controlled trials in both placebo or comparator drug and the drug under test. But, then, again, you must know how to interpret the numbers! What constitutes a significant difference between inactive or placebo and the medication, for instance? I could go on and on--
> I recently moved from Boston, and now I'm in, well, a place where there's not so much psychiatry research (to euphemize).
Bummer! Boston would be a hard act for anyplace to follow!
And I've been finding that medications that are considered "new" or "cutting edge" here are ones that were in use in Boston several years ago.
Where in the world are you, Timbuctu?
As a result I've grown very pessimistic about finding a doctor here who'll be willing (or even knowledgeable enough) to prescribe the things that have worked best for me (opioids, which are still stigmatized in most places)--
How true it is! Some attempt to make us feel guilty for needing opioids (I will use this term as your arguments make sense in the context of "stigmatism") and attempt to discourage their use, when, for the kind of chronic pain I have, and that I suspect you also suffer, opioids should be the drugs of choice.
Talk about side effects of medications: Nonsteroidal Anti-inflammatory Drugs (NSAIDs) are LOADED with, sometimes, lifethreatening side effects, and are not even particularly effective for many types of pain for which they are prescribed. NSAIDs give me asthma, stomach pain and bleeding, severe gingivitis, to name but a few! The COX-2 inhibitors seem especially insidious for these effects.
--or to try new things which may help me and which I haven't tried already (because they don't know anything about any drugs that I would consider "new").
I wish you luck in finding a physician near you who will have the knowledge and motivation to learn and to help you! I'm considering accupuncture. Have you tried it? Unfortunately, my insurance doesn't pay for it, but will pay for any drug the doc prescribes!
>
> But I'm still wondering -- how is it that ODT is 200 times as potent a mu agonist as tramadol, but only 6 times as potent an analgesic? That's the mystery to me.I had an hypothesis about that, but it slips my mind at the moment! I'll get back to you when I remember it. (Oh, Lord, sometimes I'd give any thing to be drug-free so I could figure out whether I'm also getting Alzheimers!)
>
>
> I don't agree entirely. While I understood that you meant "opioid agonists" by "narcotics," your use of the word "narcotics" suggested a political bias which I've heard called "opiophobia." I don't believe you have this bias, though, so I suggest that you use the more modern and less politically loaded term.Checkmate--game to you! Opioid agonist, it will be hereafter in these conversations! I certainly don't have this bias. I rely on hydrocodone and propoxyphene to keep my life bearable. I have attempted for many years to educate those close to me that the use of opioid agonists for severe acute or chronic pain is not only appropriate, it is the only HUMANE thing to do. (a personal experience watching my father die in agony brought me to this conclusion).
Those of us who use these medications for real pain do NOT generally abuse them. For
>
> > For instance, OxyContin (extended-release hydrocodone)--etc--> OxyContin is sustained-release oxycodone, not hydrocodone.
Right--another slip of the fingers!
--The media have portrayed it (OxyContin) as some new drug, when in fact it's just Percocet without the Tylenol and in a slow-release formulation. Its potential for abuse is greater than that of MS Contin because oxycodone has greater bioavailability than morphine when taken orally. Injecting the sustained-release drugs is pretty difficult and dangerous, BTW, because they contain so many binders. Hard-core addicts have been known to do it, but it's not trivial and the risk is significant.
>
Good information. I am not very well up on addiction research. With regard to bioavailabiity with oral administration, would you just not take a larger dose of the morphine to get the same effect?> I think that it's most likely that the people "abusing" these drugs were not hard-core addicts, but young people who were going through a phase of "experimenting" with drugs, and that the attraction of the drugs to these people lay in their "forbidden" status (since they had been identified as opioids or "narcotics").
>
I agree completely with this statement. I alluded to this phenomenon in my earlier posting!--the psychology of the "fad" drugs, etc.> Anyway, kappa opioids don't have much attraction for people who prefer mu agonists.
Tell me more. I don't know much about this subject.
The other partial/mixed agonists are the partial mu agonists, such as buprenorphine and dezocine.
--an addict in withdrawal is liable to be willing to take whatever s/he can get, and buprenorphine does block withdrawal symptoms.
Understood.
It can also be used to detox oneself and causes hardly any withdrawal symptoms of its own.
Didn't know this.
--is that using a drug to feel better does not necessarily constitute abuse, even if the drug use is illegal. This is but one of many ways that the government has invaded the doctor's office: by leading doctors to believe that the legal status of a drug defines whether its use is pathological or not.
How true! Also, I have come to believe (personal observation) that some psychotropic or CNS active medications make permanent changes to the brain, meaning, perhaps, that the set points for the receptors may be changed, e.g., (I think, but don't quote me on this) that receptor physiology is permanently altered by some CNS medications--permanent receptor upregulation(?) or that presynaptic receptors are affected more than is realized? I refer specifically to the amphetamines and amphetamine-like medications (and there lies another whole discussion--the ability of the SRI's to alleviate depression. I have noticed that when the early "amphetamine" or NE agonist effect of the AD wears off, so does the antidepressant effect--I experienced that with Prozac, Paxil, and, NOW, just recently, with Effexor; took my first amphetamine (for weight control) when I was 19 years old (40 yrs ago) and, through the years, have felt "retarded" without them. Although I don't presently take stimulants, I always found small or prescribed doses to make me feel "better" and to increase my functional status. I think this is an iatrogenic (although inadvertant) effect that I'll always have to contend with--or perhaps, I was just congenitally depressed and the amphetamines treated that condition (?). Anyway, I agree with your contention that illegal isn't synonymous with pathological! I have struggled with this concept. You have enunciated it beautifully.
>
> > I used it for about a week with Effexor before developing what I assume was serotonin syndrome; at no time did I get any significant pain relief.
>
> What symptoms did you have?Felt literally as if I was going to die!. Tremor, chilliness, cognitive deficits, memory loss, headache, "speeding", disorientation, somnolence; loss of sense of time; wildly fluctuating blood pressure (hypertension followed late in the evening by hypotension --110/62 which is much lower than my bp has been in years--dizziness; nausea--others that I cannot remember. DC's Ultram, returned to normal within 24 hours! Scared the dickens out of me. Totally out of my control until I figured out the interactive potential of these drugs.
Like I said, I never found Ultram to be worth using for pain -- or for depression, for that matter -- and the evidence (high measured TCA levels, odd reactions to dextromethorphan) suggests that I'm deficient in CYP 2D6. This lends credence to your hypothesis that most of the analgesic activity of Ultram is due to ODT.
>
Makes sense to me!I'll let you know if I get any pain relief from Effexor; my back pain continues so far (mainly in the morning, when I haven't recently taken buprenorphine), but I'm only taking 75 mg/day of Effexor.
I've recently increased my dose of Effexor to 150 qd, because it was losing it's effectiveness as an AD. I've seen no further increase in pain relief, so I wonder if that effect may not occur at low doses as with the TCAs? However, I've also not seen a return of the antidepressant activity of Effexor so would like to drop back to 75 mg qd. Let me know how this goes for you.
>
> > Nightmares or "vivid" dreams have been associated with oxycontin. Why would one not expect the same from other drugs of like action?
>
> I wasn't aware that vivid dreaming was associated with any opioid. They tend to suppress REM sleep, if anything, and they don't have the peculiar effects on REM sleep that are seen with SSRIs and Effexor (where REM density is increased -- this is thought to lead to the vivid dreaming often seen as a side effect of SRI antidepressants).
>
> I'm not going to question somebody's claim of credentials, although in this case I'm not sure what the credential means.It's British, I believe.
But as I said above, I've seen too many cases where people didn't live up to their credentials -- and many cases of lay-people having surprising knowledge that they attained by themselves -- to pay much attention to a person's credentials or lack thereof.
Very true.
>
> > Generally what we've seen with Effexor has suggested that its original marketing as "Prozac with a punch" was pretty accurate: it can have nastier side effects than SSRIs (but the same general *type* of side effects), and it also can work in situations where SSRIs aren't so effective (e.g., severe or melancholic depression). The NE reuptake inhibition is likely responsible for the hypertension sometimes caused by Effexor (most TCAs block alpha1-adrenergic receptors, which may tend to lower blood pressure, canceling out this effect; Effexor, like the SSRIs, doesn't have the antagonist effects at histaminergic, cholinergic, and noradrenergic receptors that are seen with most of the TCAs).
>
> > > The list from the Effexor PI is pretty exhaustive. That's not surprising since the PIs typically list every reported side effect and could be expected to do the same with withdrawal symptoms.
> >
> Then you're aware that this list of withdrawal symptoms should not be taken as a list of symptoms all of which anyone discontinuing Effexor is liable to experience! Only a few of them are all that common.
>
Yes.--I would hate for people to avoid Effexor (a pretty good AD, though it often has nastier side effects and w/d symptoms than the SSRIs) for fear that they might become opioid-dependent!
Oh, of course! I tend to forget this is a public forum. Sorry, again, folks, E-beth is absolutely correct about Effexor.
Elizabeth, tell us how you know all of this stuff? Your knowledge seems far greater than that of the average "Joe"!!!
Cheers,
JANNBEAU
Posted by Spencer on December 20, 2001, at 0:37:52
In reply to Effexor XR cold turkey, posted by jammy on December 18, 2001, at 21:40:14
How long were you taking Effexor? The first 6 weeks after I started taking the medication were hell...the depression was definitely worse, but I was warned by my doctor that this would happen. After that things improved very rapidly and I have been feeling very well since.
In any event please don't torture yourself when a visit to your doctor may help you.
Hope you get over this.
> I've been cold turkey from effexor xr 150mg since yesterday (mainly because I've not been able to get to a doctor, but also because i've been more bloody depressed since i started taking it than i ever felt before!) I know that I shouldn't just stop it but... anyone got any hints as to how long it'll take before the dizziness, tingling and (so much fun!) scary hallucinatory dreams stop? It feels like my brain's trying to swell out of my skull at the moment!
Posted by jgirl on December 21, 2001, at 12:25:09
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? Nat A., posted by dave40252 on October 22, 2001, at 16:40:32
I lost weight with EFFEXOR, though I added a small dosage of WELLBUTRIN only for the energy. Effexor helped with OCD and weight control, but not a significant notice on depression. However, with both these drugs combined, my SEX DRIVE INCREASED!
Posted by GJ on December 26, 2001, at 12:38:32
In reply to Re: im trying to quit, im losing my mind, posted by lesslee on October 21, 2001, at 10:53:10
Comment to Lesslee!
I have been on Efexor XR for 2 1/2 year.
The first year and 1/2 with quite good results - but after that time I began to feel strange (not beeing myself) and sometimes aggressive at the job, feeling a lack of personal judgement in many situations.
In May I tried to phase out the medication and went from 150 to 75 mg/day - It worked fine for some weeks, whereafter I returned to 150 mg due to some problems at the job.During this autumn I have started to feel more and more apathic, lacking energy and feeling sleepy and also lately having problem with my concentration - fx. if I am trying to read a book etc. - often day dreams take over.
Physically I have gained almost 10 kg of weight during the last year - eventhough I am going to gynm 1 1/2 hour every week, I am swimming 1 hour once or twice a week and I am carefully with what and how much I eat, it seems to be impossible to reduce my weight.
I have also started to have stomach problem, with increased acid production and extreame gas production and lately a have had incidence of momentary paralysis/convulsions of my fingers..... To me it seems that Effexor has some not yet accepted long term side effects as I have described above, which may not appear before after 1 or 1 1/2 years of use.
I have read about similar/related long term side effects on other web-sites - Please, let me know if anyone else has discovered long term side effects with effexor?Early in the new year I will ask my Phychiatrist to help me taper out my use of Effexor, and I need any good advice I can get - I simply do not dare to on taking Effexor.
Best Regards and Happy New Year GJ
Posted by Lorraine on December 26, 2001, at 19:35:39
In reply to Re: im trying to quit, im losing my mind, posted by GJ on December 26, 2001, at 12:38:32
I was on Effexor XR for about a year, gained 45 pounds, lost all interest in sex, decided to go off of it. This proved very, very difficult. It took me about 3 months and I ended up counting the grains in the capsule to go off the medication. After that I read that to get off Effexor (which has a long half life) you need add a longerer half life medication like Prozac for a little while as you cut down. You should try this.
> Comment to Lesslee!
>
> I have been on Efexor XR for 2 1/2 year.
> The first year and 1/2 with quite good results - but after that time I began to feel strange (not beeing myself) and sometimes aggressive at the job, feeling a lack of personal judgement in many situations.
> In May I tried to phase out the medication and went from 150 to 75 mg/day - It worked fine for some weeks, whereafter I returned to 150 mg due to some problems at the job.
>
> During this autumn I have started to feel more and more apathic, lacking energy and feeling sleepy and also lately having problem with my concentration - fx. if I am trying to read a book etc. - often day dreams take over.
> Physically I have gained almost 10 kg of weight during the last year - eventhough I am going to gynm 1 1/2 hour every week, I am swimming 1 hour once or twice a week and I am carefully with what and how much I eat, it seems to be impossible to reduce my weight.
> I have also started to have stomach problem, with increased acid production and extreame gas production and lately a have had incidence of momentary paralysis/convulsions of my fingers.
>
> .... To me it seems that Effexor has some not yet accepted long term side effects as I have described above, which may not appear before after 1 or 1 1/2 years of use.
> I have read about similar/related long term side effects on other web-sites - Please, let me know if anyone else has discovered long term side effects with effexor?
>
> Early in the new year I will ask my Phychiatrist to help me taper out my use of Effexor, and I need any good advice I can get - I simply do not dare to on taking Effexor.
> Best Regards and Happy New Year GJ
Posted by michelle a. on December 30, 2001, at 20:54:51
In reply to Re: im trying to quit, im losing my mind » GJ, posted by Lorraine on December 26, 2001, at 19:35:39
this is my first time posting, but not my first time reading this thread. i wanted to comment about effexor.
i first tried effexor back in the spring. i had been on paxil but the sexual side effects made me even more depressed!!! no desire whatsover. so i heard about effexor and wanted to try it. i went to my GP (mistake because all she knew about effexor is what the company that makes it supplied to her, and i'm pretty sure that i read somewhere that the company knew about these damned side effects but didn't really put it out there for all to know) and she put me on it.
it seemed to go alright but let me tell you...first time i forgot a dose for a few days, forget it! felt like crap!! and i had forwarned myself about this by reading this thread before i even started taking it!! I felt so achy and sick and so dizzy, like i was falling and getting that anxious rush right before...
anyway, kept on it, (150 mg of the xr) but the sexual side effects were almost as bothersome as the paxil. I told my doctor so she gave me wellbutrin 150mg in the am. helped, but not enough. so i suggested that i stop the effexor and just continue on with the wellbutrin. well, it's been over a month now and i'm just starting not to feel like i'm falling all the time. and i weaned off of it. it's been about 2 weeks since my last 37.5 and i've been VERY depressed and dizzy. like i said, the dizziness is finally STARTING to going away but i'm so depressed. and i also noticed that my memory is shot!! i hope i get it back soon. hopefully this dispair will lessen, too. and, by the way, i'm now on wellbutrin 2x day. and the depression is still there, full force, i think because of lack of effexor in my system. so hopefully when my body quits this dependance on effexor, the wellbutrin will work better. so that's my story about effexor. i have to say i think it's rather evil. but i'm glad for anybody that it's helped. happy new year to all.
Posted by Dolphin on January 1, 2002, at 21:55:56
In reply to Suffering from Effexor, posted by Dolphin on March 17, 2001, at 17:42:00
> It’s been about 9 months since I posted Suffering From Effexor. I successfully recovered from Effexor withdrawals. Taking myself off of the medication was the best thing I could have done for myself. I feel like a new person. However, on occasion (only at night while sleeping) I feel the electric shock sensations that I described in my last posting. Other than that I feel great. I have committed to never taking any depression/anxiety medication again. I have been on all of them. Effexor was the last one I will ever take. No More Drugs! I was referred to a wonderful all natural product that I completely believe has helped me to gain happiness, energy, self-respect, self-esteem, and much better health. Since I have been taking it, my family says that I have really changed for the better. They laugh and say I lost my broom (Witch attitude). Before, when everyone would be going somewhere together, the first question out of my family’s mouth was “Is She Going?” Now, they actually enjoy having me around. People at work tell me that I use to look so sad and now I look really happy. They always asked me “What are you smiling at?” While taking it, I have found that my body functions and lives, as it was meant to. I am thrilled to have found the only thing that has ever helped me to feel better about myself and look better. So I am happy to say that I have survived what I once called Hell. I look forward to waking up in the mornings and I look forward to life. I am Living again!!! You are welcome to e-mail me if you would like (angeloffB@aol.com).
Posted by Cindylou on January 2, 2002, at 6:57:48
In reply to Recovered and Happy! No More Drugs for Me!! » Dolphin, posted by Dolphin on January 1, 2002, at 21:55:56
Hi Dolphin,
Glad to hear you are feeling better.I could not find your last posts. Could you give me a brief rundown on the meds you tried, how long you suffered from depression/anxiety, and perhaps mention the product you are on now? I would like some more information before e-mailing you personally.
Thanks,
cindy> > It’s been about 9 months since I posted Suffering From Effexor. I successfully recovered from Effexor withdrawals. Taking myself off of the medication was the best thing I could have done for myself. I feel like a new person. However, on occasion (only at night while sleeping) I feel the electric shock sensations that I described in my last posting. Other than that I feel great. I have committed to never taking any depression/anxiety medication again. I have been on all of them. Effexor was the last one I will ever take. No More Drugs! I was referred to a wonderful all natural product that I completely believe has helped me to gain happiness, energy, self-respect, self-esteem, and much better health. Since I have been taking it, my family says that I have really changed for the better. They laugh and say I lost my broom (Witch attitude). Before, when everyone would be going somewhere together, the first question out of my family’s mouth was “Is She Going?” Now, they actually enjoy having me around. People at work tell me that I use to look so sad and now I look really happy. They always asked me “What are you smiling at?” While taking it, I have found that my body functions and lives, as it was meant to. I am thrilled to have found the only thing that has ever helped me to feel better about myself and look better. So I am happy to say that I have survived what I once called Hell. I look forward to waking up in the mornings and I look forward to life. I am Living again!!! You are welcome to e-mail me if you would like (angeloffB@aol.com).
Posted by sid on January 2, 2002, at 10:45:36
In reply to Recovered and Happy! No More Drugs for Me!! » Dolphin, posted by Dolphin on January 1, 2002, at 21:55:56
Posted by Dolphin on January 3, 2002, at 0:13:09
In reply to Re: Recovered and Happy! No More Drugs for Me!! » Dolphin, posted by Cindylou on January 2, 2002, at 6:57:48
Well I wasn't gonna put this out here, but here goes.
I’ve had depression my entire life. I have always been sad. I didn’t want to be around people, because when I was around people I was very quiet and people thought I was strange. I wasn’t strange, I just had absolutely no interest in life.
I’ve suffered from Bulimia and Anorexia since was 18 years old, I am now 30. Also at 18 I attempted suicide by taking a bottle of sleeping pills, needless to say my stomach was pumped. Not long there after I cut my wrist. I was a very very unhappy person. I have suffered as an alcoholic for the last few years and before that I had become addicted to cocaine and crack. I had stopped crack and cocaine, long before I quit drinking. When I became pregnant with my son is when I stopped drinking. However, after my son stopped nursing I picked up the bottle again to attempt dealing with stress, depression, and the pressure of being a single mother.
Over the years, I didn’t realize that Alcohol made my life worse. I became a drunk and I made a complete fool of my self many many times. To make matters worse, I was raped (twice) by so-called friends. I had no control over what was happening to me, I just wasn’t strong enough. I am sure the alcohol had a lot to do with that. After the second time, I knew I had to quit.
I had tried several different medications to help me cope with my problems over the years. However, none of them worked. Then my doctor put me on Effexor. What a nightmare that turned out to be.
After I recovered from Effexor, I was determined to never touch another medication again. Then, I remembered a product that I was referred to about 3 ½ years ago. I had remembered when I took it I felt great. However, now I think back and I think that I got used to the fact that I felt great, and unfortunately, I stopped taking it thinking that I didn’t need it. My mistake was, I had forgotten how I felt before I began taking it.
It didn’t even click that my depression, anxiety, and the ability to cope with stress, had been greatly improved from taking it. The only reason I started taking it in the first place was because everyone was talking about it and I thought I would try it. So I did. But again, I stopped taking it and I didn’t realize how much it actually was helping me. I once again became a very sick person and didn’t realize that I was once better.
I fell back into the trap of depression, anxiety, and the ability to not be able to cope with stress. I had completely forgotten about the product. It was only a little over a month ago that remembered what the product had done for me.
I asked the person that referred me 3 ½ years ago for the companies number and I ordered the product in hopes that it would help me. Now I have resumed the use of the product and I can see a huge difference in how I feel and how my body functions on a day-to-day basis. I have not thrown up any food since I have been taking this product nor have I starved myself of any food. I do not drink anymore, and I am not depressed anymore. I am feeling great.
I realized what a wonderful product it really is and I’ve started giving it to my son on a daily basis. My son will definitely never go through what I went through as a child and as an Adult.
When I first posted Suffering From Effexor, someone emailed me and asked me questions. One of the things I said to her was “I am making it one of my life goals to help people that are going through the same things that I have went through”. Well my follow-up message to Suffering From Effexor was one of my first steps in doing this. However, I can’t believe that it took me so long to post a follow-up message as I had the answer all along.
The product is called Body Balance. The company is Life Force International. You can look them up on www.lifeforce-intl.com. It dosn't give in detail the ingredients of Body Balance. However, I will say that it contains every vitamin, mineral, enzyme, amino acid, and bioflavinoid that is known to mankind. It is not a pill form, it is a liquid form. Liquid form is absorbed by the body up to 98%. Pill forms of nutrients are only absorbed by the body 10 to 20%. If you would like the breakdown of all 121+ nutrients, send me an e-mail. This product has everything the body needs to sustain life and function properly. I beleive it has saved my life.
Posted by angel1 on January 3, 2002, at 5:20:29
In reply to Re: Recovered and Happy! No More Drugs for Me!!, posted by Dolphin on January 3, 2002, at 0:13:09
HEY DOLPHIN, NICE ADVERTISEMENT. WHAT ELSE ARE YOU SELLING?
Posted by Cindylou on January 3, 2002, at 6:29:06
In reply to Re: Recovered and Happy! No More Drugs for Me!!, posted by Dolphin on January 3, 2002, at 0:26:58
Hi Dolphin,
Thanks for the information. I am VERY GLAD you're feeling so much better!!cindy
> Well I wasn't gonna put this out here, but here goes.
>
> I’ve had depression my entire life. I have always been sad. I didn’t want to be around people, because when I was around people I was very quiet and people thought I was strange. I wasn’t strange, I just had absolutely no interest in life.
>
> I’ve suffered from Bulimia and Anorexia since was 18 years old, I am now 30. Also at 18 I attempted suicide by taking a bottle of sleeping pills, needless to say my stomach was pumped. Not long there after I cut my wrist. I was a very very unhappy person. I have suffered as an alcoholic for the last few years and before that I had become addicted to cocaine and crack. I had stopped crack and cocaine, long before I quit drinking. When I became pregnant with my son is when I stopped drinking. However, after my son stopped nursing I picked up the bottle again to attempt dealing with stress, depression, and the pressure of being a single mother.
>
> Over the years, I didn’t realize that Alcohol made my life worse. I became a drunk and I made a complete fool of my self many many times. To make matters worse, I was raped (twice) by so-called friends. I had no control over what was happening to me, I just wasn’t strong enough. I am sure the alcohol had a lot to do with that. After the second time, I knew I had to quit.
>
> I had tried several different medications to help me cope with my problems over the years. However, none of them worked. Then my doctor put me on Effexor. What a nightmare that turned out to be.
>
> After I recovered from Effexor, I was determined to never touch another medication again. Then, I remembered a product that I was referred to about 3 ½ years ago. I had remembered when I took it I felt great. However, now I think back and I think that I got used to the fact that I felt great, and unfortunately, I stopped taking it thinking that I didn’t need it. My mistake was, I had forgotten how I felt before I began taking it.
>
> It didn’t even click that my depression, anxiety, and the ability to cope with stress, had been greatly improved from taking it. The only reason I started taking it in the first place was because everyone was talking about it and I thought I would try it. So I did. But again, I stopped taking it and I didn’t realize how much it actually was helping me. I once again became a very sick person and didn’t realize that I was once better.
>
> I fell back into the trap of depression, anxiety, and the ability to not be able to cope with stress. I had completely forgotten about the product. It was only a little over a month ago that remembered what the product had done for me.
>
> I asked the person that referred me 3 ½ years ago for the companies number and I ordered the product in hopes that it would help me. Now I have resumed the use of the product and I can see a huge difference in how I feel and how my body functions on a day-to-day basis. I have not thrown up any food since I have been taking this product nor have I starved myself of any food. I do not drink anymore, and I am not depressed anymore. I am feeling great.
>
> I realized what a wonderful product it really is and I’ve started giving it to my son on a daily basis. My son will definitely never go through what I went through as a child and as an Adult.
>
> When I first posted Suffering From Effexor, someone emailed me and asked me questions. One of the things I said to her was “I am making it one of my life goals to help people that are going through the same things that I have went through”. Well my follow-up message to Suffering From Effexor was one of my first steps in doing this. However, I can’t believe that it took me so long to post a follow-up message as I had the answer all along.
>
> The product is called Body Balance. The company is Life Force International. You can look them up on www.lifeforce-intl.com. It dosn't give in detail the ingredients of Body Balance. However, I will say that it contains every vitamin, mineral, enzyme, amino acid, and bioflavinoid that is known to mankind. It is not a pill form, it is a liquid form. Liquid form is absorbed by the body up to 98%. Pill forms of nutrients are only absorbed by the body 10 to 20%. If you would like the breakdown of all 121+ nutrients, send me an e-mail. This product has everything the body needs to sustain life and function properly. I beleive it has saved my life.
Posted by marlene on January 3, 2002, at 16:22:59
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? Nat A. » dave40252, posted by jgirl on December 21, 2001, at 12:25:09
> I have been on effexor xr 150mg 2x daily for close to a year, been on effexor for a total of 3 years, am always tired, no sex drive, miss one dose and i am messed up for hours, memory of long term things, ok, but new things always forgetting them. Am on it for depression and violent outburst, don't sleep right for days, then, wham, sleep for over 12 hours. Sometimes, it is hard to get out of chair and move. Now mom died and doctor says this is all due to her dying, yet been like this since beginning, and until I stumbled on this today, didn't even know people had problems like this from this medicine. Don't even know how to get back on this site.
Posted by Teva on January 3, 2002, at 18:16:47
In reply to The Tip of the Iceberg.............., posted by Leo on March 29, 2001, at 9:40:37
> What I have just posted is the tip of an enormous iceberg. I could spend days posting the facts associated with the devistating effects of effexor. This drug makes Prozac look like an M&M.
> In the future I will post the sources of information about the drug so that you can go to the sites and spend whatever time you feel i necessary navigating through all the information.
> An excellent source to start with is:
>
> www.effexorfx.freeuk.com
>
> This site will lead you to an abundance of sources and information about this "wonderful" drug.Finally, answers... I have been on Effexor for about 3 years and I thought that I was going insane...that it must just "be me" because I was continually feeling worse - no energy, passion for life, etc.
Although effexor did work for about the first 6 months, my doctor increased/decreased my doses which probably wasn't too healthy. 6 months ago I was almost successful in taking my own life as I
thought there was no point to life. Since then I have fluctuated in my moods, dealt with the extreme fatigue, weight gain, having healthy bloodtests and not knowing why I was still feeling as I
was. I am presently going through withdrawal (I weened myself off slowly, but apparently not slow enough)and am so relieved to know that although this shouldn't be normal,it seems to be, and to know that I am
not alone is a great relief. I has been about 9 days since I have been completely off and at least I can see that there is an end in sight. I am anxious to get my energy level back as I used
to be a fitness freak and not being able to even go for a walk without having to have a nap afterwards is awful. A clear head and positive lifestyle are right around the corner again...
Thanks to everyone who has posted messages on this site as it is great to know that there are others and it not "just me".
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 3, 2002, at 19:15:38
In reply to Re: Recovered and Happy! No More Drugs for Me!!, posted by angel1 on January 3, 2002, at 5:20:29
> HEY DOLPHIN, NICE ADVERTISEMENT. WHAT ELSE ARE YOU SELLING?
I can understand that you might be skeptical, but please don't post anything that others could take as accusatory, thanks.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding civility should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration; otherwise, they may be deleted.
Posted by NatA on January 3, 2002, at 19:19:51
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
Hello,
I have been taking effexor ex for the past 4 months with nice results. Lately life has not been so nice and added a ton of stress and crisis to my life. I also quit smoking with the help of the nicotine patch. YIKES!! The patch says that it can cause panic attacks and anxiety for people who take meds for depression.. Bingo, that would be me.. I also have gad. Since I have never "really" tried to quit smoking before for more than a day.. I am on day 12 right now, I don't know what I am feeling is normal or not. I feel like a raging mad woman. I wake up with my insides so wound up that I feel as though I might explode, very anxious, nervous, full of rage, .. basically like a bitch on wheels. I am not sure if it is the stopping smoking, the effexor and the patch or what!! Anyone with any help or ideas or stories.. I would be greatful. I have resulted in taking some adivan durring the day just to survive. I hate this feeling and need any thoughts you guys have for me. Thanks so much!!
Nat
Posted by Teva on January 3, 2002, at 19:51:23
In reply to Re: The Tip of the Iceberg.............. » Leo, posted by Teva on January 3, 2002, at 19:11:47
> > What I have just posted is the tip of an enormous iceberg. I could spend days posting the facts associated with the devistating effects of effexor. This drug makes Prozac look like an M&M.
> > In the future I will post the sources of information about the drug so that you can go to the sites and spend whatever time you feel i necessary navigating through all the information.
> > An excellent source to start with is:
> >
> > www.effexorfx.freeuk.com
> >
> > This site will lead you to an abundance of sources and information about this "wonderful" drug.
>
>Oops, I thought my browser wasn't posting - sorry for the multiple entries!!
Posted by Dolphin on January 3, 2002, at 22:25:14
In reply to Re: Recovered and Happy! No More Drugs for Me!!, posted by angel1 on January 3, 2002, at 5:20:29
Whatever. I have suffered severely from depression my entire life. I found the one thing that has helped me have a life.
If it can help others, I will certainly tell others about.
The person that told me about the product suffered severely from Fiber Malaga. She had wonderful results and referred me to the product. If she had not told me about it, I would still be suffering in my own little world.
I am very grateful to be a part of this company. If an individual is not referred by someone who believes in what the product does for people, they will not sell it to that individual.
I believe in the product, and I am sharing the information. I used this product before without ever attempting to refer other people. However, after realizing that it really works, I will share my story.
Maybe you should think before you try to embarrass someone. The only person you are embarrassing is yourself.
I chose to accept the fact that pills were not helping me, they were only hindering me and making things worse. The doctors never suggested any kind of nutrients, however a friend did.
The body needs and wants nutrients. I was lacking the proper nutrients. Therefore, my body was out of whack. God did not make Effexor, Paxil, Prozac, etc. However, he did create what our body needs to survive and live.
I am not saying that this product WILL help everyone. Because I do not know. However, I am posting my experience and how it has help me overcome many problems.
Do with it what you will.
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 4, 2002, at 1:18:52
In reply to Re: posting problems, posted by Dr. Bob on January 3, 2002, at 21:51:58
> > Oops, I thought my browser wasn't posting - sorry for the multiple entries!!
>
> Sorry, the problem was on this end, one of the files got messed up on the server. But it should be fixed now.Well, that didn't do it. :-(
Best as I can tell, the problem was the server taking too long to email notifications (since this is such a long thread). So now I'm limiting it to just the most recent dozen. Let's see how that works... Thanks for your patience,
Bob
PS: Follow-ups about posting problems should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration, etc.
Posted by nean on January 4, 2002, at 14:45:25
In reply to Effexor XR cold turkey, posted by jammy on December 18, 2001, at 21:40:14
Wow, just found you out here and glad I did. I tried tappering off with no luck so I'm now trying cold turkey. It's nice to hear that there are a few folks that have been succesful in getting off the stuff. These are the worse I think I've ever felt in my life. Nice to know it's not all in my head at least!
Posted by Krazy Kat on January 5, 2002, at 10:45:57
In reply to Re: Recovered and Happy! No More Drugs for Me!!, posted by angel1 on January 4, 2002, at 19:37:25
they denote shouting.
Posted by ZeKingPrawn on January 5, 2002, at 16:08:08
In reply to Re: Recovered and Happy! No More Drugs for Me!!, posted by Dolphin on January 3, 2002, at 0:13:09
What a coincidence that this is some sort of pyramid marketing scheme.
> Well I wasn't gonna put this out here, but here goes.
>
> I’ve had depression my entire life. I have always been sad. I didn’t want to be around people, because when I was around people I was very quiet and people thought I was strange. I wasn’t strange, I just had absolutely no interest in life.
>
> I’ve suffered from Bulimia and Anorexia since was 18 years old, I am now 30. Also at 18 I attempted suicide by taking a bottle of sleeping pills, needless to say my stomach was pumped. Not long there after I cut my wrist. I was a very very unhappy person. I have suffered as an alcoholic for the last few years and before that I had become addicted to cocaine and crack. I had stopped crack and cocaine, long before I quit drinking. When I became pregnant with my son is when I stopped drinking. However, after my son stopped nursing I picked up the bottle again to attempt dealing with stress, depression, and the pressure of being a single mother.
>
> Over the years, I didn’t realize that Alcohol made my life worse. I became a drunk and I made a complete fool of my self many many times. To make matters worse, I was raped (twice) by so-called friends. I had no control over what was happening to me, I just wasn’t strong enough. I am sure the alcohol had a lot to do with that. After the second time, I knew I had to quit.
>
> I had tried several different medications to help me cope with my problems over the years. However, none of them worked. Then my doctor put me on Effexor. What a nightmare that turned out to be.
>
> After I recovered from Effexor, I was determined to never touch another medication again. Then, I remembered a product that I was referred to about 3 ½ years ago. I had remembered when I took it I felt great. However, now I think back and I think that I got used to the fact that I felt great, and unfortunately, I stopped taking it thinking that I didn’t need it. My mistake was, I had forgotten how I felt before I began taking it.
>
> It didn’t even click that my depression, anxiety, and the ability to cope with stress, had been greatly improved from taking it. The only reason I started taking it in the first place was because everyone was talking about it and I thought I would try it. So I did. But again, I stopped taking it and I didn’t realize how much it actually was helping me. I once again became a very sick person and didn’t realize that I was once better.
>
> I fell back into the trap of depression, anxiety, and the ability to not be able to cope with stress. I had completely forgotten about the product. It was only a little over a month ago that remembered what the product had done for me.
>
> I asked the person that referred me 3 ½ years ago for the companies number and I ordered the product in hopes that it would help me. Now I have resumed the use of the product and I can see a huge difference in how I feel and how my body functions on a day-to-day basis. I have not thrown up any food since I have been taking this product nor have I starved myself of any food. I do not drink anymore, and I am not depressed anymore. I am feeling great.
>
> I realized what a wonderful product it really is and I’ve started giving it to my son on a daily basis. My son will definitely never go through what I went through as a child and as an Adult.
>
> When I first posted Suffering From Effexor, someone emailed me and asked me questions. One of the things I said to her was “I am making it one of my life goals to help people that are going through the same things that I have went through”. Well my follow-up message to Suffering From Effexor was one of my first steps in doing this. However, I can’t believe that it took me so long to post a follow-up message as I had the answer all along.
>
> The product is called Body Balance. The company is Life Force International. You can look them up on www.lifeforce-intl.com. It dosn't give in detail the ingredients of Body Balance. However, I will say that it contains every vitamin, mineral, enzyme, amino acid, and bioflavinoid that is known to mankind. It is not a pill form, it is a liquid form. Liquid form is absorbed by the body up to 98%. Pill forms of nutrients are only absorbed by the body 10 to 20%. If you would like the breakdown of all 121+ nutrients, send me an e-mail. This product has everything the body needs to sustain life and function properly. I beleive it has saved my life.
Posted by Ron Hill on January 5, 2002, at 16:14:18
In reply to Effexor Ex and Nicotine Patch HELP, posted by NatA on January 3, 2002, at 19:19:51
Nat A,
I also recently used the patch to quit smoking and I take medication (600 mg/day Lithobid) to treat bipolar disorder. The rage I experienced during this time was very scary. My poor wife!
Here is my layman's partial interpretation of what might have caused my foul mood: As I understand it, nicotine affects the level of norepinephine in the brain (perhaps the main reason people continue to smoke). As changes in nicotine blood levels occur due to smoking cessation activities, norepinephine levels are also affected (at least temporarily).
As an aside, even if nicotine blood levels are held constant, the particular type of nicotine delivery system (i.e. patch vs. smoke inhalation) also seems to influence the nicotine/norepinephine biochemical interaction. I might be wrong on this one but it sure seemed like it to me?
Getting back on topic, I personally think my rage mood was a function of the serotonin/norepinephine balance in my brain rather than just the raw quantity of norepinephrine.
My pdoc and I successfully treated this rage condition by adding a small amount of an SSRI (25 mg Zoloft). As I had fully anticipated, based on my prior experiences with other SSRI's (Prozac and Paxil), my rage mood disappeared on the first day of the low dose Zoloft trial. However, even at this extremely low dose, Zoloft rendered me totally unmotivated, void of enthusiasm, and emotionless after just one week of the trial.
This also did not surprise me since Paxil and Prozac had the same effect. SSRI's turn me into what my wife affectionately refers to as her "do nothing boy". In my "SSRI brain chemistry state" I'm content and peaceful with no hint of rage, but the most I can motivate myself to do is veg out on TV 24/7.
So I took myself off the Zoloft and within a day was experiencing SSRI withdrawal which, for me, includes what I call a "one-quart-low serotonin depression" lasting about a week this time. The reason I mention all this is because I fully expected the rage to return after going off the SSRI. But it did not! By the time the one week Zoloft trial and one week SSRI withdrawal time periods had elapsed, I had weaned myself off the nicotine patch. (I use scissors to cut full strength patches into progressively smaller and smaller pieces so as to taper the nicotine dose, and I use athletic tape to secure the properly sized patches to my wrist). In the absence of a nicotine addiction and/or nicotine intake, the rage mood disappeared.
I've rambled here, but the bottom line is that, for me, once the nicotine was out of my system, the rage was gone as well. I wish you success with your nicotine withdrawal and your mood!
-- Ron
PS As you probably know, Effexor is a Selective Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitor (SNRI). The smoking cessation medication Zyban (identical to the AD Wellbutrin) is a reuptake inhibitor of dopamine and Norepinephrine and is thought to be effective because it offsets the decline in brain levels of Norepinephrine caused by nicotine withdrawal. Although this mechanism may be overly simplistic, if increasing Norepinephrine does indeed aid smoking cessation then Effexor should also help smokers quit. At the same time, increasing Norepinephrine will almost certainly not reduce rage but instead may very well cause rage to escalate. Having said all this, everyone one is different and, therefore, your mileage may vary.
--------------------------------------------------
Hello,
> I have been taking effexor ex for the past 4 months with nice results. Lately life has not been so nice and added a ton of stress and crisis to my life. I also quit smoking with the help of the nicotine patch. YIKES!! The patch says that it can cause panic attacks and anxiety for people who take meds for depression.. Bingo, that would be me.. I also have gad. Since I have never "really" tried to quit smoking before for more than a day.. I am on day 12 right now, I don't know what I am feeling is normal or not. I feel like a raging mad woman. I wake up with my insides so wound up that I feel as though I might explode, very anxious, nervous, full of rage, .. basically like a bitch on wheels. I am not sure if it is the stopping smoking, the effexor and the patch or what!! Anyone with any help or ideas or stories.. I would be greatful. I have resulted in taking some adivan durring the day just to survive. I hate this feeling and need any thoughts you guys have for me. Thanks so much!!
> Nat
Posted by ZeKingPrawn on January 5, 2002, at 17:33:57
In reply to Effexor XR cold turkey, posted by jammy on December 18, 2001, at 21:40:14
Cold turkey is definitely not the way with Effex. It has to do with the half-life of the drug and needs to be stopped GRADUALLY. You have or will figure that out. Side effects will continue until all traces of the drug have been eliminated, which could be up to a month. My last dose was three days ago of 12.5 mg, and I was having mild side effects so I took another. I have been taking it for around two years, 300mg a day. I tried prozac before that and that sucked. I went from being chronically sad (though friends would NEVER have guessed) and moreover, philosophically depressed (pointless, meaningless, nothing means anything) to not worrying about it so much.
When I decided that I would try to go without Effexor, I cut my dose down by 25mg a week, I got down to 25mg and now three pills of 12.5 mg in a week. I am still having side effects. They are not severe, but uncomfortable nonetheless.
Remember, depression and anxiety are neurologically based so there IS a drug that will help you. Some people take "cocktails". Find a Psychiatrist who is specializes in your type of deprssions and causes (mine was from drug use as a teenager) and who is open to different treatments. Some Psychs just seem to be distributors for drugs. And get therapy at the same time, drugs help, but they are much less effective alone. And I was taking 150mg for the first two months which did nothing. 300mg and my life changed.
> I've been cold turkey from effexor xr 150mg since yesterday (mainly because I've not been able to get to a doctor, but also because i've been more bloody depressed since i started taking it than i ever felt before!) I know that I shouldn't just stop it but... anyone got any hints as to how long it'll take before the dizziness, tingling and (so much fun!) scary hallucinatory dreams stop? It feels like my brain's trying to swell out of my skull at the moment!
Posted by Dolphin on January 5, 2002, at 20:03:38
In reply to Re: Recovered and Happy! No More Drugs for Me!!, posted by ZeKingPrawn on January 5, 2002, at 16:08:08
To ZeKingPrawn
What is that suppose to mean? It doesn’t matter that it is a Multi Level Marketing company. This is a very good product and everyone that I have talked to is greatly impressed with the results that they have.
So-what, if it’s a MLM company. What is the difference if you buy something at a store? You are giving someone money and contributing to their business.
Not all MLM companies are worthless. I use their products and they have helped me. If you haven't tried something I don't think you should attempt to knock it down unless you have experience with it.
I have done my research about this company and I strongly believe they are 100% legit. If I didn’t believe this I would not have posted anything out here about it.
I posted the the website address of the company. Everyone can see for their selves what this company is all about.
The product has given me outstanding results. In addition, I'm convinced in Life Force and I currently order 3 additional products. Also, If I refer people to Life Force, I can get the products free. I look at it this way - I am going to use Life Force's products forever and I am 100% positive that other people need these life-sustaining products as well. Referring people to Life Force is not only beneficial to me, but it also greatly impacts the lives of the people I refer.
If someone chooses to purchase Body Balance, and they see a significant difference in their life, I will definitely encourage them to take advantage of the referring opportunity that Life Force offers. Not only will they benefit the people they refer, but they will not have to pay for Body Balance, of which I strongly believe is critically needed by the human body.
So, please, do not post anything negative about me unless you are for sure of what you are talking about. Thanks.
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