![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1335 to 1359 of 10407. Go back in thread:
Posted by galtin on September 22, 2001, at 19:03:46
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by belfast on September 21, 2001, at 23:56:16
> > > My wife has just gone on Effexor. She is zombied. Lies around all day, cannot muster energy to answer
> questions sometime. It's more like she is completely sedated. Similar to pre-med. Has anyone else ever had this
> symptom?JP-
Lots of success with Effexor after finding no relief with other meds. From the very beginning I had no side effects other than a slightly unpleasant reved up feeling. This went away after a month. I eventually increased from 75mgs to 300mgs with no activation of side effects. I know a couple of people who had trouble with somnolence after beginning Effexor. For one person an increased dossage was the answer, while for another the addition of Wellbutrin did the trick.
Posted by Kristi on September 22, 2001, at 20:09:30
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by galtin on September 22, 2001, at 19:03:46
Please don't take this the wrong way..... but good luck to you when trying to get off it. I know from experience.... and the archives... and people who have been off it for months and even years still having problems.
> > > > My wife has just gone on Effexor. She is zombied. Lies around all day, cannot muster energy to answer
> > questions sometime. It's more like she is completely sedated. Similar to pre-med. Has anyone else ever had this
> > symptom?
>
> JP-
>
> Lots of success with Effexor after finding no relief with other meds. From the very beginning I had no side effects other than a slightly unpleasant reved up feeling. This went away after a month. I eventually increased from 75mgs to 300mgs with no activation of side effects. I know a couple of people who had trouble with somnolence after beginning Effexor. For one person an increased dossage was the answer, while for another the addition of Wellbutrin did the trick.
Posted by sweet_slider on September 22, 2001, at 21:42:25
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by galtin on September 22, 2001, at 19:03:46
Hi guys and gals,
Well this was my first time at this post
I started taking Effexor XR about 6 weeks ago, first 37.5 for 3 weeks then 75 for 3 weeks and am now taking 75mg in the morning then 37.5 at night for 1 week and then up to 150mg(75 twice a day. I took Zoloft for 5 months and it helped initially with the anxiety and panic attacks but I reached a plateau after 5 months at 100mg. It did nothing for the depression so my doc(who is great!) switched me over to Effexor XR, I did notice some withdrawl symptoms from the switch but nothing major. I responded immediately to the Effexor XR but still had the depression, right now I'm at 112.5mg/day and still really low, but I start the 150/day soon which hopefully will help out with that. I'm also seeing a psychiatrist for the first time next week. I'm now a little scared about what's gonna happen when I'm better and need to stop taking it. I've read good and bad stories on this page. Thanx to all for your imput, I clearly need to discuss some things with my doctor next week!
I do notice I tune out in class which isn't cool, does anyone know of any other drug I can combine with the effexor XR to control that? I should also mention that I went from 10-15 panic attacks a day to none or rarely any, so to the person who said Effexor XR doesn't work for GAD, it apparently does for some people. I look forward to comments and suggestions :)
Posted by kid47 on September 24, 2001, at 11:52:27
In reply to Re: Prozac may very well be the key, posted by Michele R.N. on September 22, 2001, at 12:45:37
Hi. After taking 300mg/day Fxr Xr for about a year, I tapered down to 37.5/day, added 20mg Prozac & stopped the fxr completely. I had virtually no disontinuation side fx. Check the archives here about FXR. Ther's tons of info. Good Luck
kid
> I want to know If anyone's physician has recommended taking prozac while tapering off effexor xr? I need help!
Posted by SLS on September 24, 2001, at 22:26:12
In reply to Re: Prozac may very well be the key » Michele R.N., posted by kid47 on September 24, 2001, at 11:52:27
> > I want to know If anyone's physician has recommended taking prozac while tapering off effexor xr? I need help!> Hi. After taking 300mg/day Fxr Xr for about a year, I tapered down to 37.5/day, added 20mg Prozac & stopped the fxr completely. I had virtually no disontinuation side fx. Check the archives here about FXR. Ther's tons of info. Good Luck
>
> kid
Hey Kid.How exactly did you go about this? Would you mind listing step-by-step what you did?
Thank you.
- Scott
Posted by Teri on September 25, 2001, at 13:11:43
In reply to Re: Prozac may very well be the key » kid47, posted by SLS on September 24, 2001, at 22:26:12
Hi. I was just on 75mg but it made me so sick after two months. The side effects were hell for me as were the withdrawals. I went to a psychiatrist finally (I was being treated by my internist) and he gave me 10mg of Celexa and Klonopin to help with the withdrawals. I was down to splitting a 37.5mg capsule for about two days when I saw him. He just told me to stop the Effexor XR at that point and do the Celexa and Klonopin and I hardly had any withdrawals after that. I've continued the Celexa, up to 20mg, and the Klonopin and am feeling so much better. I took the Effexor XR for my anxiety problems but the Effexor made my anxiety so much worse. It was aweful. Teri
Posted by Nehebkau on September 25, 2001, at 13:24:40
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by Hunter77 on September 10, 2001, at 11:13:00
Hey Hunter,
Sounds like you've had the same experiences as I have. I am finally feeling fantastic and Have been on 225 of XR for 3 months. All the side-effects are gone and my life is finally getting back into shape.
The biggest problems for me have been the Sex problem and the caffine problem. If i have more than 1 medium roast cup of coffee per day I get very buzzed. I have to stay completely away from coke and pepsi for similar reasons. The whole sex issue was solved without medication and with a loving wife. You can have a return of sexual feelings, it just takes longer for your to get aroused and longer for you to orgasm. Spend the extra time with your partner in foreplay. If that doesn't work try using visual/movie aids or have your partner try to seduce you. I think you will find that you will respond to those stimuli. The thing is that once you find that you can respond, keep it up otherwise you can fall back into the 'No interest' mood. If you are still having problems, try to make use of the 'Morning Erections' that all men get (sort of an 'if i get an erection i should use it' frame of mind).
I hope this helps.> I've followed the thread, and finally had to comment.
> Effexor XR has worked for me although I hate the "no sex"
> side effect. I tried Prozac, Wellbutrin, and Celexa before
> this. I'm still depressed and the pdoc and I are still experimenting
> with the dose (at 225 mg now), but this is the first med
> that didn't have me angry at the whole world, ready to blow
> up over anything. this web site has really made me aware how
> different everyone's reaction is to the drugs - but for some
> of us, it does work.
>
> PS - Anyone (male) had success with adding other drugs to overcome
> the sexual side effects?
Posted by kid47 on September 25, 2001, at 17:37:06
In reply to Re: Prozac may very well be the key » kid47, posted by SLS on September 24, 2001, at 22:26:12
Hi Scott. I decreased my dosage by 75mg every two weeks till I was at 75mg/day. I was fully prepared to stay at a dosage longer than two weeks or even go back up if I felt bad but fortunately I never really did. After two weeks at 75mg. I then dropped to 37.5 mg/day. On the fifth day at this dose I began 20 mg Prozac. (Some say 10 mg is effective, but I just happened to have some 20mg left over from previous use) After 5 days I stopped the FXR XR & the Prozac. I should probably mention I was taking 800mgX4/day of Neurontin & Klonopin prn along with the FXR XR. I stopped the Nuerontin about a week after the FXR. I was med-free (except for occassional Klonopin) for 13 wks!! My pdoc approved of all this though it was basically my idea. I am now on Wellbutrin 150mgx2/day, 400mgx4/day Neurontin & Klonopin prn. The Wellb is about to put me through the roof. Sorry probably more info than you wanted. Hope this helps. Take care
kid
>
>
> Hey Kid.
>
> How exactly did you go about this? Would you mind listing step-by-step what you did?
>
> Thank you.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by Kristi on September 25, 2001, at 21:31:00
In reply to Re: withdrawal, posted by Teighlor on September 25, 2001, at 14:57:30
Hi...
Wow... your story is mine... exactly. It'll get better.... as soon as I started the prozac the w/drawal symptoms went away immediately. Months later tho, I still get those little brain zaps... but that's going away too... just taking longer. I feel for you. I've been their, I know, I feel your pain. Hang in there.... Kristi
> > I absolutely cannot believe what I have just spent the last hour reading. By some freak accident or I would prefer to say Godsend I came across the info posted here on Effexor. I was on Prozac for five years and it pooped out on me. I was switched to Effexor and gradually worked up to 150 mg. a day only to feel worse than I did on Prozac. My doctor increased my dose by 75 mg. and I still felt no change. I then worked up to 300 mg. and from there my life fell part with more depression and side effects than I could bear. I really thought I was having a nervous breakdown. My legs jerked, I had dizziness, couldn't sleep, electrical shocks in my head , strange sensations when I moved my head, nausea, hot sweats that had me hanging over the toilet and literally falling apart at the least little thing. Needless to say my doctor has been weaning me off of it for three weeks and I am down to 37.5 mg. and I am more dizzy and have headaches like I can't describe. I surely was never informed of the withdrawal symptooms and had decide until today that there was more wrong with me like a brain tumor or something since I was getting worse instead of better. I am starting the Prozac with the Effexor today. I am so relieved to understand what is really wrong and am quite angry that this is not addressed in the indications that accompany the medicine. I would never have started this if I had known. My only fear now is where will I go from here since I need to be on something. I hope the Prozac will go back and do its thing for me since I am quite paranoid to try anything else.
Posted by SLS on September 25, 2001, at 22:51:16
In reply to FXR XR Discontinuation Steps » SLS, posted by kid47 on September 25, 2001, at 17:37:06
Hi Kid,
I really appreciate your taking the time to answer my question.
Did you take Prozac every day during this period?
Thanks again.
- Scott
> Hi Scott. I decreased my dosage by 75mg every two weeks till I was at 75mg/day. I was fully prepared to stay at a dosage longer than two weeks or even go back up if I felt bad but fortunately I never really did. After two weeks at 75mg. I then dropped to 37.5 mg/day. On the fifth day at this dose I began 20 mg Prozac. (Some say 10 mg is effective, but I just happened to have some 20mg left over from previous use) After 5 days I stopped the FXR XR & the Prozac. I should probably mention I was taking 800mgX4/day of Neurontin & Klonopin prn along with the FXR XR. I stopped the Nuerontin about a week after the FXR. I was med-free (except for occassional Klonopin) for 13 wks!! My pdoc approved of all this though it was basically my idea. I am now on Wellbutrin 150mgx2/day, 400mgx4/day Neurontin & Klonopin prn. The Wellb is about to put me through the roof. Sorry probably more info than you wanted. Hope this helps. Take care
>
> kid
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > Hey Kid.
> >
> > How exactly did you go about this? Would you mind listing step-by-step what you did?
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
Posted by Noreen on September 26, 2001, at 12:27:51
In reply to Re: withdrawal » Teighlor, posted by Kristi on September 25, 2001, at 21:31:00
I have just decided to go off of Effexor XR, and my doctor told me that I do not have to taper off of it like I tapered onto it. I had bad side effects getting on it. Lost weight, nauseated, headaches. After reading this, I'm really scared that she doesn't know what she's talking about. What should I do? I was taking 150mg/day for 5 days. Before that, I was taking 75mg/day for 4 weeks. I was on for 6 weeks. Does that make a difference?
Posted by NikkiT2 on September 26, 2001, at 12:42:41
In reply to I'm REALLY scared..., posted by Noreen on September 26, 2001, at 12:27:51
I was on 300mg and cam eoff cold turkey and it was awful... really awful. You *do* need to taper, so go back to your doc and say thats what you have to do. I explained to mine (I ended up back on effexor) and he has even witten to the drug company about it.
You do need to taper... stick at 75mg for 2 weeks, then 37.5mg for 2 weeks...
Nikki x
Posted by NikkiT2 on September 26, 2001, at 12:43:03
In reply to I'm REALLY scared..., posted by Noreen on September 26, 2001, at 12:27:51
I was on 300mg and cam eoff cold turkey and it was awful... really awful. You *do* need to taper, so go back to your doc and say thats what you have to do. I explained to mine (I ended up back on effexor) and he has even witten to the drug company about it.
You do need to taper... stick at 75mg for 2 weeks, then 37.5mg for 2 weeks...
Nikki x
Posted by kid47 on September 26, 2001, at 14:09:03
In reply to Re: FXR XR Discontinuation Steps » kid47, posted by SLS on September 25, 2001, at 22:51:16
Scott. The last 5 days of discontinuation, along with 37.5 mg FXR, I took 20mg Prozac everyday for 5 days. You probably don't need to do it that long, but at the time, I was considering switching back to Prozac. I thought I could ease my FXR withdrawal & at the same time start my Prozac trial. I felt so well though I decided to go med free to see what would happen. I guess YES would be the short answer. Lol
Kid
> Hi Kid,
>
> I really appreciate your taking the time to answer my question.
>
> Did you take Prozac every day during this period?
>
> Thanks again.
>
>
> - Scott
>
>
> > Hi Scott. I decreased my dosage by 75mg every two weeks till I was at 75mg/day. I was fully prepared to stay at a dosage longer than two weeks or even go back up if I felt bad but fortunately I never really did. After two weeks at 75mg. I then dropped to 37.5 mg/day. On the fifth day at this dose I began 20 mg Prozac. (Some say 10 mg is effective, but I just happened to have some 20mg left over from previous use) After 5 days I stopped the FXR XR & the Prozac. I should probably mention I was taking 800mgX4/day of Neurontin & Klonopin prn along with the FXR XR. I stopped the Nuerontin about a week after the FXR. I was med-free (except for occassional Klonopin) for 13 wks!! My pdoc approved of all this though it was basically my idea. I am now on Wellbutrin 150mgx2/day, 400mgx4/day Neurontin & Klonopin prn. The Wellb is about to put me through the roof. Sorry probably more info than you wanted. Hope this helps. Take care
> >
> > kid
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hey Kid.
> > >
> > > How exactly did you go about this? Would you mind listing step-by-step what you did?
> > >
> > > Thank you.
> > >
> > >
> > > - Scott
Posted by gourdmother on September 26, 2001, at 15:16:59
In reply to Re: starting effexor... keep posting.. success/dosage?, posted by Noa on November 7, 1999, at 19:31:21
> I was just put on effexor..Can i expect some weight loss on this drug?
Posted by Nat A. on September 27, 2001, at 11:22:15
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by annj on February 28, 2001, at 20:34:03
> > I've been on 75 mg of Effexor XR for 2 weeks now, after 1 week of 37.5 mg. A doctor prescribed this to me after a suicidal episode...I've been severely depressed for nearly a year and have anxiety problems as well. At times it seems the effexor is helping and at other times I feel more hopeless and anxious than ever! Can't fall asleep at night, then can't wake up in the morning. How long does it take for this drug to kick in? Do any of you know of another drug that might help? Tried Paxil but hated it.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for your help and best wishes to all of you.
>
>
>
> I was on effexor for 9 months and I had a bad experience. It made me angry instead of sad and I had no sex drive.
> Now I am on Wellbutrin. As soon as Ii switched to Wellbutrin my mood improved and I have a sex drive again. Effexor is an evil drug! You should get off of it. My mind doesn't work anymore because of it.Hi, I am starting effexor xr this morning. It is rather scarey to see how it works or doesn't work for different people. This is the first med that I have ever tried. I got it from my gp for anxiety
and depression. I just feel so glad that i am not the only one with this.. it seems from what I am reading that it is not the "wonder drug" that I was hoping for. My gp also gave me some ativan to sleep
at night.. from what I hear about that, it is horrible stuff and to stay away from it. She said to just take it at night durring the first two weeks as I start on the effexor xr. Anyone with any imput for
me... I would be greatful. This is so scary and new to be taking something although I know I need something. I just want my life back and to be able to be "normal" in life. I am starting on 37.5 mg for the
first week and then bump up to 75 for week two. Thanks!!
Posted by Fred Potter on September 27, 2001, at 16:30:10
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by Nat A. on September 27, 2001, at 11:22:15
For what it's worth I've found Effexor to be very effective against anxiety and depression. Yes my sexual prowess took a knock, but it's coming back. It's not without some side effects, but preferable to how I was. It seems that people who have problems with treatment are more likely to post. I suppose those that respond well may not even see this board
Posted by Cindylou on September 28, 2001, at 14:11:54
In reply to I'm REALLY scared..., posted by Noreen on September 26, 2001, at 12:27:51
Please please taper!! I'm not sure what you're doctor is thinking -- is he/she a phsychiatrist? Most pdocs know that you need to taper off Effexor slowly.
For me, I was taking 150 mg for 8 months. I started tapering by taking 75 mg for a week, and then going to 37.5 mg. That's where the trouble came in.
So my pdoc prescribed 25 mg. Effexor tabs for me (they are non-sustained release). This way, I was able to go from 75 to 50 mg (I took the 25 mg. tabs in a.m. and p.m.); then from 50 to 37.5, then from 37.5 to 25, then 12.5 ... etc. I stayed at each new dose for a couple of weeks. I still had some trouble, but was able to make it through -- however when I initially went straight from 75 to 37.5 there was no way I could tolerate the withdrawal.
I hope things go well for you -- you may not have as difficult a time since you haven't been on Effexor that long.
Take care!
cindy
> I have just decided to go off of Effexor XR, and my doctor told me that I do not have to taper off of it like I tapered onto it. I had bad side effects getting on it. Lost weight, nauseated, headaches. After reading this, I'm really scared that she doesn't know what she's talking about. What should I do? I was taking 150mg/day for 5 days. Before that, I was taking 75mg/day for 4 weeks. I was on for 6 weeks. Does that make a difference?
Posted by PAT on September 29, 2001, at 3:36:08
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by Nat A. on September 27, 2001, at 11:22:15
> Hi there,
>
> Just a question.
When i stopped Effexor ( forget one day for example), i'm, very bad.excuse me i'm French and my English language is'nt very good).
I take just one 37.5mg/day.
Is Anyone know this problem ?> please share your thoughts on this.
PAT
Posted by CLF on September 29, 2001, at 15:38:16
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by PAT on September 29, 2001, at 3:36:08
I've been on Effexor XR for about 4 mos mow, and the only real problem I ever had was when I first began taking it, I had nausea and vomiting real bad, then the vomiting stopped, and I just felt kinda weird for about 2 weeks. After that, no real side effects that make this drug worth stopping. Sexual problems are one area, and I've just had to learn how to adjust to that. i don't get headaches, or experience any problems from not taking it (although there were only 2 occasions where I did not take it for a day). For me, Effexor works. I can't take Wellbutrin, it speeds me up, I need the type of drug that calms me down (Serzone works for me also, this Dr. wanted me to try Effexor) and keeps me from getting anxious. My mood is better, I don't want to cry and I'm more social when taking it. Of course, I don't know how long I'll need to stay on Effexor, and I imagine the withdraw will be difficult from what I have read here, so I'm not looking forward to that. I've found this site to be very helpful in what to expect from the drug, even though it can react in different ways.
Posted by jay on October 2, 2001, at 6:48:37
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by Nat A. on September 27, 2001, at 11:22:15
If any problems further arise, you may want to go back to 37.5mg, stay there until you feel *total* control, and try adding Ativan PRN for anxiety/insomnia. Treat this med with much respect, take it at the *same* time each day, never miss a dose, etc, and *really* work hard with changing your lifestyle and all, and you may be shocked at how well you can do. BUT, everyone is different, and some don't find this med good at all.
Give it a *good* shot, work hard and respect the med, see what happens.
All the best,
Jay
> > > I've been on 75 mg of Effexor XR for 2 weeks now, after 1 week of 37.5 mg. A doctor prescribed this to me after a suicidal episode...I've been severely depressed for nearly a year and have anxiety problems as well. At times it seems the effexor is helping and at other times I feel more hopeless and anxious than ever! Can't fall asleep at night, then can't wake up in the morning. How long does it take for this drug to kick in? Do any of you know of another drug that might help? Tried Paxil but hated it.
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance for your help and best wishes to all of you.
> >
> >
> >
> > I was on effexor for 9 months and I had a bad experience. It made me angry instead of sad and I had no sex drive.
> > Now I am on Wellbutrin. As soon as Ii switched to Wellbutrin my mood improved and I have a sex drive again. Effexor is an evil drug! You should get off of it. My mind doesn't work anymore because of it.
>
> Hi, I am starting effexor xr this morning. It is rather scarey to see how it works or doesn't work for different people. This is the first med that I have ever tried. I got it from my gp for anxiety
> and depression. I just feel so glad that i am not the only one with this.. it seems from what I am reading that it is not the "wonder drug" that I was hoping for. My gp also gave me some ativan to sleep
> at night.. from what I hear about that, it is horrible stuff and to stay away from it. She said to just take it at night durring the first two weeks as I start on the effexor xr. Anyone with any imput for
> me... I would be greatful. This is so scary and new to be taking something although I know I need something. I just want my life back and to be able to be "normal" in life. I am starting on 37.5 mg for the
> first week and then bump up to 75 for week two. Thanks!!
Posted by sweet_slider on October 3, 2001, at 21:17:29
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? » Nat A., posted by jay on October 2, 2001, at 6:48:37
I did the same as you are now doing, 1 week at 37.5 then up to 75mg, I am now at 150mg(75 twice a day) It does take about 3 weeks to get any real feeling of it working. Before then you are just thinking that it's working because you had a good day, but then the next day you have a crappy day and realize that it wasn't actually the drug.
As for the sleeping part, I take 20mg of amitriptyline each night and it puts me to sleep and helps me stay asleep until morning. I had more trouble staying asleep all night, I was waking up every hour, now I can usually sleep until morning. As someone else mentioned before you can take Ativan for the panic attacks(I do) and it is also used as a sedative for some people to go to sleep. The Effexor XR has worked for me in reducing my anxiety and panic attacks from 10-15 a day to none for almost 1.5 months now which is amazing for me!
Anyways, keep at it, it does take time to work and your only into your 3rd or 4th week now so don't give up yet!
~Sweet Slider~I've been on 75 mg of Effexor XR for 2 weeks now, after 1 week of 37.5 mg. A doctor prescribed this to me after a suicidal episode...I've been severely depressed for nearly a year and have anxiety problems as well. At times it seems the effexor is helping and at other times I feel more hopeless and anxious than ever! Can't fall asleep at night, then can't wake up in the morning. How long does it take for this drug to kick in? Do any of you know of another drug that might help? Tried Paxil but hated it.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks in advance for your help and best wishes to all of you.
Posted by Cinderbug on October 6, 2001, at 9:39:08
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
> Hi there,
>
I'm writing for my mother-in-law. She has recently quit taking Effexor. Her eyesight changed while she was on it. She experienced blurred vision while quitting Effexor and now is nearsighted for the first time ever. She also has itching and a little swelling around her eyes. Her doctor said these can be side effects of the Effexor. Has anyone else had eye trouble? Please let me know. Thank you.
Posted by bowflex man on October 7, 2001, at 7:18:12
In reply to Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by jp on October 24, 1999, at 14:59:14
I have been taking Effexor XR since Sept 1 at 150/mg a day and I can notice a big improvement in
my personality. I have tried Wellbutrin and Prozac but Effexor seems to be the best medication as of yet. I recommend it highly.
Posted by juliedealer on October 7, 2001, at 10:15:10
In reply to Re: Anyone had success on Effexor XR? , posted by bowflex man on October 7, 2001, at 7:18:12
I started effexor 2 weeks ago. 37.5 mg the first week and 75 mg the second. My latest AD has been Welbutrin at 300 mg per day. My new pdoc has kept me taking the welbutrin, anyone else on this combination?
julie
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.