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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 34 to 58 of 83. Go back in thread:
Posted by Cecilia on May 13, 2001, at 0:04:45
In reply to Re: Whats the best opiate for depression ?, posted by ElizabethNeedsTogetShocked on May 12, 2001, at 22:51:11
To Eric (under his new handle): Believe me, depression IS pain. Depression can be the worst pain there is. I haven`t tried opiates and doubt they work for most people, but they do work for Elizabeth. Why does that bother you so much?
Posted by Michele on May 13, 2001, at 0:19:20
In reply to Re: To Eric, posted by Cecilia on May 13, 2001, at 0:04:45
> To Eric (under his new handle): Believe me, depression IS pain. Depression can be the worst pain there is. I haven`t tried opiates and doubt they work for most people, but they do work for Elizabeth. Why does that bother you so much?
>
>
Celia,
There is pysical pain, and there is mental pain. They are different. I believe that's why they probably make different drugs for each. :-)
Posted by Cecilia on May 13, 2001, at 0:50:29
In reply to Re: To Eric » Cecilia, posted by Michele on May 13, 2001, at 0:19:20
> > To Eric (under his new handle): Believe me, depression IS pain. Depression can be the worst pain there is. I haven`t tried opiates and doubt they work for most people, but they do work for Elizabeth. Why does that bother you so much?
> >
> >
> Celia,
> There is pysical pain, and there is mental pain. They are different. I believe that's why they probably make different drugs for each. :-)I find that when I`m in the worst depression I do hurt physically as well as mentally-it`s like I`m just one overwhelming ball of pain. I wouldn`t take opiates for it though-I know it`s not the kind of pain they can fix. (Not that the many different antidepressants I have tried have helped either). But I don`t see anything wrong with Elizabeth choosing to take medication prescribed and supervised by a respected researcher and it`s annoying to see Eric pop back with his insulting attacks on her.
Posted by Michele on May 13, 2001, at 1:01:12
In reply to Re: To Eric-Michele, posted by Cecilia on May 13, 2001, at 0:50:29
I know what your saying..... but I guess I'm talking more about the physical pain of saying like your back hurts or something. Physical pain such as what comes from cancer.... or muscle deterorations, or whatnot.... really aren't the same as mental pain. I've tried AD's before.. and tho they may have worked in making me feel better emotionally... they didn't touch my pysical pain. Unfortuanely. I agree.... Eric(?) is out of line.... but don't concern yourself with it too much... as soon as Dr. Bob sees it, he'll be blocked. For him to express himself in that way.... means he is having some really horrible mental anguish of some sort.... I know, when I first read his stuff I felt horrible for Elizabeth.... and tho I may not agree with some of elizabeths posts either... she doesn't deserve that kind of attack. So if your reading this elizabeth..... he'll be gone soon. Take it with a grain of salt.
Posted by Cecilia on May 13, 2001, at 3:15:52
In reply to Re: To Eric-Michele, posted by Michele on May 13, 2001, at 1:37:55
Actually AD`s (tricyclics in particular) are often prescribed for patients with chronic physical pain (though who knows if they really help the pain or merely help the patient cope with it better because he`s less depressed). It`s hard to separate the mind and body. Physical pain is definitely a lot easier to treat than mental pain, though, if the doctor is willing to treat it, which many are not for fear of addiction, even if the patient is terminally ill. Wheras there are a lot of people whose depresssions haven`t responded to any of the available meds or to therapy.
I just wish the drug companies would spend less money on TV commercials extolling the virtues of the drugs already available and more on researching new ones.
Posted by shelliR on May 13, 2001, at 13:07:06
In reply to Re: To Eric-Michele » ElizabethNeedsTogetShocked, posted by Michele on May 13, 2001, at 10:36:10
Elizabeth, I just got to the board and I'm really sorry that there is this attack going on. It seems bad, but remember the attack only involves two people, two repetitive people. So, I imagine it should be over soon.
Please, I hope you do not feel the need to defend yourself. Yesterday you wrote posts to people doing that, and I wonder whether that's where you really want to spend your energy. It's your call, but I wouldn't bother.
Mostly I hope it doesn't get in the way of the posts we (you, and I and Cecilia,Scott and others) have been exchanging. They have had useful information and support. I suppose this will ride over fairly soon and I don't intend to censor my thoughts or my medications on the board because of others' bullying.
So hang in there, and know that you have done all you can to find a way to beat your depression. It's a beautiful, beautiful mother's day sunday on the east coast, and I hope you are out, away from all this negativity.
Shelli
Posted by SLS on May 13, 2001, at 15:13:55
In reply to Elizabeth....................., posted by shelliR on May 13, 2001, at 13:07:06
> Elizabeth, I just got to the board and I'm really sorry that there is this attack going on. It seems bad, but remember the attack only involves two people, two repetitive people. So, I imagine it should be over soon.
>
> Please, I hope you do not feel the need to defend yourself. Yesterday you wrote posts to people doing that, and I wonder whether that's where you really want to spend your energy. It's your call, but I wouldn't bother.
>
> Mostly I hope it doesn't get in the way of the posts we (you, and I and Cecilia,Scott and others) have been exchanging. They have had useful information and support. I suppose this will ride over fairly soon and I don't intend to censor my thoughts or my medications on the board because of others' bullying.
>
> So hang in there, and know that you have done all you can to find a way to beat your depression. It's a beautiful, beautiful mother's day sunday on the east coast, and I hope you are out, away from all this negativity.
>
> Shelli
Me too.Actually, Elizabeth, I find your behavior in the midst of this nuisance enviable. When I grow up, I want to be just like you.
- Scott
Posted by gen on May 13, 2001, at 15:34:58
In reply to Re: Elizabeth..................... Me too., posted by SLS on May 13, 2001, at 15:13:55
I came on to say exactly what Scott just said. I admire your composure tremendously. And Shelli, you hang in there, too. Glad the weather is as lovely where you are as it is here.
Gen
Posted by JahL on May 13, 2001, at 15:52:35
In reply to Re: Elizabeth..................... Me too., posted by gen on May 13, 2001, at 15:34:58
If it works, it works.
@ this point I wld like to refer to my 1st post on this thread...
j
Posted by Michele on May 13, 2001, at 16:23:54
In reply to and me..., posted by JahL on May 13, 2001, at 15:52:35
Shelli,
Are you referring to me as one of the two who is attacking Elizabeth?????? I never once wrote anything directed at her... or anything of that manner. In fact.... I have had at least 2 posts.... that quotes where included... that I was basically being yelled at for writing...WHEN I DIDN'T EVEN WRITE THEM. If you look closer... me and another person are getting confused. I think I'm getting attacked here.... and by things I didn't even say. I even wrote a post to "elizabeth needs to be shocked" saying that was harsh.... and should rerain from it. I may not agree with her.but I don't think I have to.Because I don't agree... does not mean that I'm attacking her.... by any means..... and when it comes to saying stuff like that.... refer to my post at the bottom..... where you are angry at me!! And for what?
Posted by gen on May 13, 2001, at 16:52:04
In reply to Re: and me.Shelli, posted by Michele on May 13, 2001, at 16:23:54
> Shelli, thought I should give you your own admiring post, not just tack yours onto Elizabeth's, so here it is. Your restraint has been truly remarkable, and I'm glad to have your example before me! (I've admired many of your posts in the past, as well.)
Gen
Posted by shelliR on May 13, 2001, at 18:19:20
In reply to Shelli, posted by gen on May 13, 2001, at 16:52:04
> > Shelli, thought I should give you your own admiring post, not just tack yours onto Elizabeth's, so here it is. Your restraint has been truly remarkable, and I'm glad to have your example before me! (I've admired many of your posts in the past, as well.)
> GenI think the more angry people get about something that doesn't involve them, and the more redundant they begin to sound, the easier it is for me to show restraint. Anyway, that's how I felt this weekend. It's sort of like being aware of trying to remain as clean as possible in a highly polluted environment. Just because it feels so much better not to be covered with soot.
Thanks for the compliment and the support.
Shelli
Posted by gen on May 13, 2001, at 21:01:27
In reply to Re: Shelli » gen, posted by shelliR on May 13, 2001, at 18:19:20
Yes, yes! That's what I admire, and what I need to hold before me as an example. To not get covered in the soot, mired in the hysteria. You've got so much going for you: you are brave and true (gee, I sound like a medieval romance poem), articulate, informed, reasoned, and yet passionate. Without even knowing it, you've given me support and encouragement over the months (I know you're not "new"), and I want to
thank you for that.
Gen
Posted by shelliR on May 13, 2001, at 22:29:32
In reply to Re: Shelli, posted by gen on May 13, 2001, at 21:01:27
> Yes, yes! That's what I admire, and what I need to hold before me as an example. To not get covered in the soot, mired in the hysteria. You've got so much going for you: you are brave and true (gee, I sound like a medieval romance poem), articulate, informed, reasoned, and yet passionate. Without even knowing it, you've given me support and encouragement over the months (I know you're not "new"), and I want to
> thank you for that.
> GenThanks. and I wish I could just be gracious and just accept your kind words. But I have to say, I have spent my share of time in soot, and wouldn't be surprised if I slip at times and end up there again (hopefully temporarily). So you may well be disappointed that I do not always live up to my own standards (or yours).
But thanks so much for telling me that my posts have had an influence on you. And I don't recall you posting under "gen" (sorry if I've just missed them), but I'm sure if you decided to join in the posting, I'd have a lot to learn from you also.
Now, no more compliments, please! shelli
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 13, 2001, at 22:34:47
In reply to Re: Whats... and Drug Seeking Behavior, posted by kazoo on May 12, 2001, at 0:13:38
> I will tell you one other thing: if you do get optiates to treat your so-called depression, and then you're shut off, you will experience the REAL depression you faked to begin with to get them.
Please don't accuse others of faking anything (unless you can substantiate that claim). Thanks,
Bob
PS: Any follow-ups regarding civility, if not redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration, may be deleted.
Posted by mikes on May 13, 2001, at 23:24:18
In reply to and me..., posted by JahL on May 13, 2001, at 15:52:35
"Hopefully this thread won't get hijacked by the anti-opiate brigade..."
You really called this one JahL, I didn't think it was going to get this bad.
> If it works, it works.
>
> @ this point I wld like to refer to my 1st post on this thread...
>
> j
Posted by MorganW on May 14, 2001, at 1:16:19
In reply to Re: and me.Shelli, posted by Michele on May 13, 2001, at 16:23:54
I have read all these threads from beginning to end and I don't see that you have done anything wrong. Don't get angry tho... I have read a lot of your posts form the archives and what not and you seem like such a caring person, I feel bad that these people seem to be after you. Just like people are sticking up for other individuals, I want to go on record as sticking up for you. Good luck, and hang in there.
Posted by Michele on May 14, 2001, at 2:15:15
In reply to Re: and me.Shelli--Michele, posted by MorganW on May 14, 2001, at 1:16:19
Thanks morgan. Much appreciated... I'm really feeling beaten up over this whole thing.
Posted by JahL on May 14, 2001, at 13:38:22
In reply to Re: please be civil » Nichole, posted by SLS on May 14, 2001, at 7:33:30
>Personally, I would consider drinking horse piss if I thought it would relieve me of the illness that I find so oppressive, and that is responsible for the catastrophic dissolution of my life.
I would *inject* the stuff.
Nice post (I 'lurked' 4 6mths b4 posting & am glad I did).
j
Posted by Nichole on May 14, 2001, at 13:54:12
In reply to Re: Shelli, posted by gen on May 13, 2001, at 21:01:27
Gen
Are you sucking up or what? I at least respect Shelli for asking you not to compliment her.
Give me a break. You hold an opiate pusher as your idol?
Posted by shelliR on May 14, 2001, at 17:23:37
In reply to Shelli, posted by gen on May 13, 2001, at 16:52:04
:-)
shelli
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 14, 2001, at 17:52:26
In reply to Re: Shelli, posted by Nichole on May 14, 2001, at 13:54:12
> Are you sucking up or what?
Please be civil, or I'll need to try to block you from posting. Thanks,
Bob
Posted by SLS on May 14, 2001, at 18:07:55
In reply to Re: please be civil » Nichole, posted by Dr. Bob on May 14, 2001, at 17:52:26
Hi All.
I don't know why my post sort of disappeared along this thread. Anyway, I hope this one stays put for a while. I won't address it to any one person. At this point, I would rather address it to the issue. I posted this in another thread, so I apologize for redundancy.
"
...skepticism is healthy. As I suggested in my other post, it is sometimes difficult to keep an open mind, especially when a contention deviates so much from the currently accepted or traditional treatment modalities. Much can come from the type of dialogue we have here. For instance, I took your opinion seriously and decided to investigate the matter further. In doing so, I found something that I believe will be informative for both you and I, and hopefully for anyone else following this thread. It is not a short piece, and at times does not make for easy reading, but the introduction and discussion at the end are worth a reading. The article appeared in one of the most respected medical journals, the Journal of Clinical Psychopharmacology. At the end of the article is the bibliography that contains a wealth of equally respected and well-known authors. This is truly a serious investigation into the utility of opiates, particularly buprenorphine, in the treatment of treatment-resistant depression. It is worth noting that this article was published in 1995, so we are not talking about a novel or radical idea.It is worth keeping an open mind.
Article: Buprenorphine Treatment of Refractory Depression
http://balder.prohosting.com/~adhpage/bupe.html
Sincerely,
Scott"
- Scott
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 14, 2001, at 18:37:24
In reply to Re: please be civil - O.K., if I must. :-), posted by SLS on May 14, 2001, at 18:07:55
> I don't know why my post sort of disappeared along this thread.
I'm deleting posts that should have been redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration, like I said I might.
Bob
Posted by gen on May 14, 2001, at 19:56:44
In reply to Re: Shelli » gen, posted by shelliR on May 14, 2001, at 17:23:37
> :-)
>
> gen
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